pscary psi pseminars? Help!
April 20, 2011 8:52 PM Subscribe
Psi seminars: BF is hooked, I'm scared, what now?
My boyfriend has recently become heavily involved in Psi Seminars. He just did the 7 day seminar, and is now signing up for all the subsequent ones. He can afford it, sort of, but it's a lot of money for him and he'll be in some debt for it. I want to support him in his desire for self-improvement, but after doing some research on the programs, I am very worried. I don't know how to talk to him about this without it sounding like I'm being negative and obstructing his personal growth. A big part of my concern is that this all seems to be happening really fast.. one seminar, and suddenly he's spending thousands of dollars on all the other ones (because it's a better "deal" to get them all at once). I want to encourage him to take it more slowly, but he's convinced he'll want to do them all eventually, so why not get the discount? Nothing really "bad" has happened yet (other than maybe some unwise spending), but after reading some of the horror stories (financial and relationship ruins) I am getting so scared.. am I just freaking out for no reason? what can I do??
Throwaway email: psiseminarhelp@gmail.com
My boyfriend has recently become heavily involved in Psi Seminars. He just did the 7 day seminar, and is now signing up for all the subsequent ones. He can afford it, sort of, but it's a lot of money for him and he'll be in some debt for it. I want to support him in his desire for self-improvement, but after doing some research on the programs, I am very worried. I don't know how to talk to him about this without it sounding like I'm being negative and obstructing his personal growth. A big part of my concern is that this all seems to be happening really fast.. one seminar, and suddenly he's spending thousands of dollars on all the other ones (because it's a better "deal" to get them all at once). I want to encourage him to take it more slowly, but he's convinced he'll want to do them all eventually, so why not get the discount? Nothing really "bad" has happened yet (other than maybe some unwise spending), but after reading some of the horror stories (financial and relationship ruins) I am getting so scared.. am I just freaking out for no reason? what can I do??
Throwaway email: psiseminarhelp@gmail.com
He can afford it, sort of, but it's a lot of money for him and he'll be in some debt for it.
So, what you're saying is: "he can't afford it"?
posted by pompomtom at 9:04 PM on April 20, 2011 [27 favorites]
So, what you're saying is: "he can't afford it"?
posted by pompomtom at 9:04 PM on April 20, 2011 [27 favorites]
If something puts you in debt, even a little bit, then you cannot afford it, even sort of.
If you can't convince him not to do the programs at all, then at least try to encourage him to set himself a (low) monthly spending limit on the seminars. If your finances are co-mingled, this should be a point that you absolutely do not waiver on. If his finances are separate, then, well, good luck.
posted by phunniemee at 9:05 PM on April 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
If you can't convince him not to do the programs at all, then at least try to encourage him to set himself a (low) monthly spending limit on the seminars. If your finances are co-mingled, this should be a point that you absolutely do not waiver on. If his finances are separate, then, well, good luck.
posted by phunniemee at 9:05 PM on April 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
Cults are scary. Pyramid schemes with cult-like qualities are even scarier. I think you're right to be really worried.
Unfortunately, I am not sure you can convince him not to do something he clearly wishes to do. Hopefully it will run its course for him soon.
posted by zug at 9:36 PM on April 20, 2011
Unfortunately, I am not sure you can convince him not to do something he clearly wishes to do. Hopefully it will run its course for him soon.
posted by zug at 9:36 PM on April 20, 2011
Have you sent him here?
You might want to do some web-searching for ex-PSI people in your area, and then introduce them to him.
The problem, as I'm sure you aware, is that experiential-programming groups are, well, highly effective.
You might want to read up on what PSI does-- compliance training, (subtly erotic) eye-gazing dyads, etc.-- and then recite it all to him:
"Some people report doing X... which made them feel really understood; then they experienced Y... which made them feel as though there are entire worlds of pleasure and adventure the people in their lives have been keeping them from... BUT THEN these people REALIZED [show them what you've found out about PSI] and this is WHAT HAPPENED to them. Oh, now I'd like you to Jack and Sue, who were very deeply into PSI..."
posted by darth_tedious at 9:40 PM on April 20, 2011
You might want to do some web-searching for ex-PSI people in your area, and then introduce them to him.
The problem, as I'm sure you aware, is that experiential-programming groups are, well, highly effective.
You might want to read up on what PSI does-- compliance training, (subtly erotic) eye-gazing dyads, etc.-- and then recite it all to him:
"Some people report doing X... which made them feel really understood; then they experienced Y... which made them feel as though there are entire worlds of pleasure and adventure the people in their lives have been keeping them from... BUT THEN these people REALIZED [show them what you've found out about PSI] and this is WHAT HAPPENED to them. Oh, now I'd like you to Jack and Sue, who were very deeply into PSI..."
posted by darth_tedious at 9:40 PM on April 20, 2011
There is a reason to freak out. Lord knows if your bf will emerge or not (hopefully so), but from what you say they have their claws in him and it'll be painful one way or the other. darth_tedious' ideas may be worth looking into.
good luck
posted by edgeways at 9:43 PM on April 20, 2011
good luck
posted by edgeways at 9:43 PM on April 20, 2011
Here's a PSI vet's account of being successfully deprogrammed, over the course of a weekend, by his mother and sister:
http://psi-seminars.pissedconsumer.com/i-was-in-this-cult-psi-seminars-20100109167141.html
posted by darth_tedious at 9:54 PM on April 20, 2011
http://psi-seminars.pissedconsumer.com/i-was-in-this-cult-psi-seminars-20100109167141.html
posted by darth_tedious at 9:54 PM on April 20, 2011
The thread availablelight links above is great not just because a lot of people give excellent examples of how the program has affected people they know and love, but because one of the answers is from Adam Savage. If your boyfriend likes Mythbusters, Adam's opinion -- apart for its inherent clarity and helpfulness -- may carry some extra weight with him.
posted by maudlin at 9:56 PM on April 20, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by maudlin at 9:56 PM on April 20, 2011 [3 favorites]
My own two cents: the cumulative effect of sharing information on how other people have been trapped and tricked, and how some have been successfully deprogrammed, may not necessarily lead to the outcome you want. If your boyfriend feels that he's been stupid, or that you see him as stupid, he may resist. The human ego often views constructive criticism as damage and routes around it.
If his week included achieving some pretty impressive things, like climbing high poles and rappeling down cliffs, he can be justifiably proud of that, no matter how dysfunctional the entire environment was. This may be the first time in his life he tried such things, and I think anyone would be reluctant to change their personal narrative for 7 days like this from brand new asskicker to duped fool.
Can he, or both of you, take part in other positive activities without the high price or cultish aspects? Maybe an Outward Bound course, or a stint of volunteering with Habitat for Humanity. Give him something positive to focus on instead of appearing to deny and invalidate the good parts of his week.
posted by maudlin at 10:12 PM on April 20, 2011 [6 favorites]
If his week included achieving some pretty impressive things, like climbing high poles and rappeling down cliffs, he can be justifiably proud of that, no matter how dysfunctional the entire environment was. This may be the first time in his life he tried such things, and I think anyone would be reluctant to change their personal narrative for 7 days like this from brand new asskicker to duped fool.
Can he, or both of you, take part in other positive activities without the high price or cultish aspects? Maybe an Outward Bound course, or a stint of volunteering with Habitat for Humanity. Give him something positive to focus on instead of appearing to deny and invalidate the good parts of his week.
posted by maudlin at 10:12 PM on April 20, 2011 [6 favorites]
You are not freaking out for no good reason. Take your best shot in getting him to see what's going on with these clowns and if he can't or won't leave it in some haste, leave him. If he stays with it, the odds of things 'tween y'all ending well are about zero.
posted by ambient2 at 11:54 PM on April 20, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by ambient2 at 11:54 PM on April 20, 2011 [2 favorites]
Everything that maudlin said!
We're all agreed here that Psi Seminars are a bad idea. I just don't know how you're going to be able to convince your bf. It sounds like he is already pretty into it, and at this point the more you disparage Psi Seminars, the less he will likely listen.
Plan to have this talk. Don't ambush him, but pick a time and place where you will both feel comfortable and relaxed.
Say that you are uncomfortable with Psi Seminars rather than saying that they are bad/wrong/evil. (The result you're looking for is not to "win" an argument about the freaky cultishness of Psi Seminars, but to have your boyfriend not go to them.)
Talk to him about what he gets out of Psi Seminars and really listen to him. Talk to him about his desire for personal growth and/or his underlying unhappiness. This should be the main part of the conversation. This is the most important stuff.
Psi Seminars are not the only path to personal growth. And if he can afford Psi Seminars, he sounds like he's in a pretty good position to have a lot of choice. Talk about looking into alternatives. If you have some suggestions here (um, again I will namecheck maudlin who had a comment filled with great ideas!), be careful in how you present them. You don't want to sound like you're telling him what to do/what he is allowed to do. Suggesting things that you can do together is a good way of getting around this. Or phrasing it like "I don't know too much about [option], but it sounds like it could be a good idea" lets him investigate it himself later and draw his own conclusions.
Encourage him to go with one of those alternatives. And when I say "encourage", I mean beg, please, emotionally manipulate, make a deal with him, whatever.
And if he doesn't listen, and his being a cult member is a deal breaker for you (understandable!), leave him. Don't feel like you need to stay with someone if they are going down this path. Yes, he's in a vulnerable place but he's the one making these choices and he's an adult.
posted by coffeepot at 3:26 AM on April 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
We're all agreed here that Psi Seminars are a bad idea. I just don't know how you're going to be able to convince your bf. It sounds like he is already pretty into it, and at this point the more you disparage Psi Seminars, the less he will likely listen.
Plan to have this talk. Don't ambush him, but pick a time and place where you will both feel comfortable and relaxed.
Say that you are uncomfortable with Psi Seminars rather than saying that they are bad/wrong/evil. (The result you're looking for is not to "win" an argument about the freaky cultishness of Psi Seminars, but to have your boyfriend not go to them.)
Talk to him about what he gets out of Psi Seminars and really listen to him. Talk to him about his desire for personal growth and/or his underlying unhappiness. This should be the main part of the conversation. This is the most important stuff.
Psi Seminars are not the only path to personal growth. And if he can afford Psi Seminars, he sounds like he's in a pretty good position to have a lot of choice. Talk about looking into alternatives. If you have some suggestions here (um, again I will namecheck maudlin who had a comment filled with great ideas!), be careful in how you present them. You don't want to sound like you're telling him what to do/what he is allowed to do. Suggesting things that you can do together is a good way of getting around this. Or phrasing it like "I don't know too much about [option], but it sounds like it could be a good idea" lets him investigate it himself later and draw his own conclusions.
Encourage him to go with one of those alternatives. And when I say "encourage", I mean beg, please, emotionally manipulate, make a deal with him, whatever.
And if he doesn't listen, and his being a cult member is a deal breaker for you (understandable!), leave him. Don't feel like you need to stay with someone if they are going down this path. Yes, he's in a vulnerable place but he's the one making these choices and he's an adult.
posted by coffeepot at 3:26 AM on April 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
You can't change most people's minds by arguing with them logically or presenting counter-examples. You must give them a positive reason to think differently so they can come to a new point of view without being wrong or defensive. You don't tell a toddler to stop hitting his sister and expect him to just do it, you give him a new toy to play with. At least with adults you can slyly show them that the bad toy was bad, once they're ready to listen.
So: find new activities to engage him. Present positive information about something else you can do together. You can't just say "That sucks don't do it" because it will turn defensive and he'll be forced in his mind to choose between you or the program.
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:57 AM on April 21, 2011
So: find new activities to engage him. Present positive information about something else you can do together. You can't just say "That sucks don't do it" because it will turn defensive and he'll be forced in his mind to choose between you or the program.
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:57 AM on April 21, 2011
Do whatever you need to do to protect your finances from him.
posted by fritley at 9:26 AM on April 21, 2011 [9 favorites]
posted by fritley at 9:26 AM on April 21, 2011 [9 favorites]
This warrants a serious, sit-down conversation with your boyfriend. Without being judgey or accusatory, ask him about the Psi Seminar he attended. What was it like? What happened there? What was he expecting, and how did the seminar measure up? What were his favorite parts? What is he hoping to experience in the next one? Did he like the camaraderie?
Really listen to what he found appealing about it. Then explain that you are very worried because you have read a lot of accounts of people losing a ton of money with these seminars and he will be going into debt. Explain why this concerns you regarding your future together and talk about what you two are saving for together (a house, college, vacation, etc) and how that saving will be affected. Remind him that these seminars are not a limited time offer deal but that they can feel that way. Ask him if there's some other activity that he can do close to home that resembles what he liked about the Psi Seminars.
This is a classic scheme because it works - really, really works. Keep dialogue open with your boyfriend.
posted by amicamentis at 10:15 AM on April 21, 2011
Really listen to what he found appealing about it. Then explain that you are very worried because you have read a lot of accounts of people losing a ton of money with these seminars and he will be going into debt. Explain why this concerns you regarding your future together and talk about what you two are saving for together (a house, college, vacation, etc) and how that saving will be affected. Remind him that these seminars are not a limited time offer deal but that they can feel that way. Ask him if there's some other activity that he can do close to home that resembles what he liked about the Psi Seminars.
This is a classic scheme because it works - really, really works. Keep dialogue open with your boyfriend.
posted by amicamentis at 10:15 AM on April 21, 2011
Are your finances co-mingled? If so, go get your own bank account, and divide your assets. Trust me.
Prepare yourself to separate your home. Psi Seminars are bad juju, and if you can't stop him now, he's lost, and he's going to take your financial freedom with him.
If he won't stop, you need to get out.
posted by dejah420 at 8:20 AM on April 25, 2011
Prepare yourself to separate your home. Psi Seminars are bad juju, and if you can't stop him now, he's lost, and he's going to take your financial freedom with him.
If he won't stop, you need to get out.
posted by dejah420 at 8:20 AM on April 25, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by availablelight at 9:03 PM on April 20, 2011 [6 favorites]