I was a jerk at work

March 3, 2011 8:39 PM

I was a jerk at work. I insulted another doctor in front of the whole staff. This requires an apology, obviously. Or not?

Here is more background info than you really need:

I'm a vet. I work as a specialist in a high end veterinary hospital. This is the same hospital where I worked as a tech before and during veterinary school. My boss is great, she's smart and kind. When I got my super fancy vet credentials, she offered me a consulting gig that I couldn't pass up.

Once every two weeks I go into work, do some consults and round with the docs. While I work, my boss has an early education student come into play with my 15 month old daughter in an old office they converted into a playroom just for this purpose. They keep her favorite snacks on hand, and I can hop in to see her between patients. I suspect this is pertinent because I could not get this sweet setup anywhere else. I am well compensated.

While I was on maternity leave, a new vet, Chris, began work. He is competent, but arrogant. Last month he misdiagnosed a dog who previously had been my patient. The owners proceeded along his recommended course of action, and only by circumstance did he end up seeing another vet who caught the mistake. At the cost to the hospital, I fixed the issue surgically, and the pup is now doing well. The owners, Chris, my boss and the other vet who caught the error know the extent of the mistake (truly inexcusable) but the staff was not explicitly aware.



So here is the problem -
Today during rounds I was presenting a patient and asked the tech what his status was. Chris started answering, which is his habit even when not being addressed. As it was clear that I wasn't listening to him, he turned to the tech and told her to "shut up when a doctor is talking".

I lost my temper. This is the first time I've ever yelled at another adult (except while driving, use your blinker, jerk!).

I told him he wasn't much of a doctor, and that perhaps he should be the one to shut up and learn some diagnostic method. Also, I called him an asshat. All while yelling. Ug.

I know I owe Chris an apology. I should not have outed his mistake to everyone. I've made errors too, and have only been treated with empathy when dealing with my mistakes. I should have been more professional. I also owe my boss an apology, and did call her up tonight. Here's the rub- she laughed and told me that I was not, under any circumstances, to say sorry. She says that Chris needed to be put in his place.

Help, metafilter! Do I say sorry?

posted by Nickel Pickle to Work & Money (31 answers total)

Best answer: I would apologize for the language and volume, but not the message, if that makes sense.
posted by iamabot at 8:41 PM on March 3, 2011 [12 favorites]

Best answer: Your boss explicitly told you to not say you're sorry. Chris is obviously an asshat and you called him on it. Forget about an apology and just be civil to him from now on. Pretend it never happened.
posted by elsietheeel at 8:42 PM on March 3, 2011 [27 favorites]

Yeah. If your boss laughed it off, and this isn't the overarching culture at the hospital, it sounds like this guy really needed to be told off. Maybe apologize for the volume in private with each of your coworkers who saw it, but nothing else.
posted by schmod at 8:46 PM on March 3, 2011 [1 favorite]

Best answer: What I don't get is, if your boss thinks Chris needs to be put in his place, why she doesn't solve the issue herself instead of letting you be the bad guy? If he's so arrogant that he's making inexcusable mistakes so bad they require surgery to fix, and he thinks it's totally fine demeaning and abusive to the techs, why isn't she taking real steps to solve that? This sounds like a much more major problem than an angry outburst from a colleague would ever solve.

IMHO the right thing to do has several parts. 1. You apologize to Chris for treating him unprofessionally. 2. You tell Chris in a professional way if you find his behavior to the techs in front of you to be unacceptable. 3. Your boss does something real and lasting about Chris's behavior.
posted by Ashley801 at 8:50 PM on March 3, 2011 [32 favorites]

I wouldn't apologise. But, to make up for it, the next time (if it happens) Chris does something outrageously right, be sure to praise him for a job well done.
posted by tumid dahlia at 8:53 PM on March 3, 2011 [1 favorite]

The guy sounds like a jerk.

Yelling at someone and calling them an asshat is not professional. When you do something wrong, it's best to try to make amends. An apology doesn't show that he's always been right and you've always been wrong. It's an apology for flying off the handle and seems appropriate.

Your boss is wrong. Chris needed to be called on his behavior, not put in his place.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 8:53 PM on March 3, 2011

On preview, Ashley801 has it right.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 8:56 PM on March 3, 2011

I think a little bit of an apology is in order, though not really for calling him an asshat. More like, "Hey Chris, sorry I lost my temper. I should not have yelled at you."
posted by Gilbert at 9:11 PM on March 3, 2011 [1 favorite]

Best answer: You should not apologize. You can tell Chris that what each of you did was unprofessional, but he isn't due an apology and giving him one will only reinforce his arrogance.
posted by anadem at 9:18 PM on March 3, 2011 [5 favorites]

Best answer: I would look at it this way: one one side is my boss, who is great, smart, kind and providing me with a sweet consulting gig with excellent compensation where I can bring my child. She told me not to apologize to him under any circumstances. On the other side is a coworker who is arrogant, interrupting, and condescending (gathered from how he spoke to the tech). I wouldn't apologize.
posted by Majorita at 9:24 PM on March 3, 2011 [4 favorites]

Yeah I'm Team Ashley all they way, with a small caveat.

In my years, which I seem to have more to look back on than forward to, I have encountered plenty of similar situations. Bit my tongue on a few, gave some well deserved call outs on others. I regret biting my tongue more.

Rude asshats are just that, and for pete's sake if they don't see anything wrong with the way they speak to people, ah, don't get me going. The damned PhD's who insist on being called Dr? My favorite is this horrible little snert drummer who insists on being called Dr. Brad. (With some consideration, I think it might be a Napoleon Complex thing, because is like 4'10). He would litteraly correct me in crowds if turned around and called him Brad at a jam session.

"That's Doctor Brad!"

I finally said..

"Dude, you're here to drum, and you're a fuckin opthamologist at a strip mall discount glasses place. What do you want from me?"

Then again, I got canned from my best job ever, because as the CEO told me, "You keep making all the MBA's cry in meetings."

YMMV
posted by timsteil at 9:30 PM on March 3, 2011 [1 favorite]

After more thought: you should on no account apologize, and you should let go of any feeling bad about what you did and what you said. You acted as a human being should. Congratulate yourself, and don't crawl to Chris, the stupid clot.

Arrogant doctors are the pits.
posted by anadem at 10:03 PM on March 3, 2011 [1 favorite]

I think it is good form to follow your boss's wishes. If this Chris guy comes looking for an apology, I would tell him that you will apologize on form but not substance.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:07 PM on March 3, 2011 [1 favorite]

His asshattitude does not entitle you to treat him rudely and unprofessionally. I would apologize, and I would do it in front of the tech.
posted by ottereroticist at 10:07 PM on March 3, 2011 [1 favorite]

I think you should apologize to the tech, on Chris' behalf. Also (much less big a deal) on your own part, because you dragged your own issues with Chris' competence into a situation where Chris was super-rude to the tech but didn't really do anything to you, and that had to have been a little uncomfortable for the innocent tech.

Chris can suck an egg, though.
posted by gingerest at 10:10 PM on March 3, 2011 [1 favorite]

Best answer: I think that apologising to Brad for "treating him unprofessionally" is way too vague. I would be very specific, to the point of issuing a non-apology. I might say or send something like:

"I apologise for volume of yesterday's discussion. It was not my intention to embarrass you. SuperDuper Vet Hospital is a special place and I have always found one of it's strengths to be the collegial environment where every team member, from the managing partners to the desk staff, is treated with courtesy and respect. Obviously, this extends to VetTech Name, but it should also extend to you and I am sorry I did not communicate the message I needed to delivery more professionally."

And then stop. You don't need to pad or diminish that at all. You absolutely need to be clear you are apologising for the delivery method but not the content.
posted by DarlingBri at 10:17 PM on March 3, 2011 [15 favorites]

Yeah, this is an unfortunate episode. They happen, don't beat yourself up about it.

I don't think you should apologize, because your boss told you not to and because you don't want to lose face with Chris, and right now he's likely feeling less alpha than usual - probably a good thing. He seems like the kind of guy who jockeys for status in the workplace, and treats (bullies) people according to title rather than a constant rule of human decency. Not an attractive quality, but not that unusual either.

What I would do, in lieu of apologizing, is to start preparing for the next time he gets under your skin (and there will be a next time). Rehearse how you will calmly, clearly and explicitly call him out for what he's doing wrong in that moment.

It's not cool to call him out on his competence as a doctor as a response to his rudeness to a tech; you call him out for being rude to the tech.

Feel free to offer smaller reminders for him to get in line even before he really provokes you again -- interrupting him to clarify that you were talking to the tech, not him, for instance. That would shut him up nicely, and underscore the message that you're not to be bullied or intimidated by him.

Good luck with dealing with your asshat colleague.
posted by nadise at 10:22 PM on March 3, 2011

Sounds like you did the world a favour, go buy yourself a drink and forget it.
posted by londonmark at 12:13 AM on March 4, 2011 [1 favorite]

No, don't apologize - Chris did need to be put in his place - he was extraordinarily rude to the tech. You were unprofessional but sometimes it's necessary if someone is consistently being an asshat.
posted by mleigh at 12:14 AM on March 4, 2011

FWIW My style has always been to let subordinates and peers know when they are doing something really wrong or right.

I would apologize for the way that you told him off followed by a stern warning that you value vet techs and he should too.

From me it would sound like "I am sorry for raising my voice the other day, I should have kept a better hold of my self. I just hate to see vet techs undervalued; they work hard and deserve more respect then you gave him."

Apologize for yelling, not for calling him an asshat...after all he was one.
posted by Felex at 12:25 AM on March 4, 2011 [4 favorites]

Best answer: This is a bit of a non sequitur, but I just looked over your prior questions and they've been some of my recent ask mefi favorites (from the plane tickets to the cashmere sweater woman). And now you add this to the mix?

I think you should apologize; on the other hand, I don't think you should feel that bad. From your prior questions, it's pretty damn clear that you are typically very considerate of others in your decision-making and almost hyper-focused on social niceties. That YOU went off on this guy makes it clear how inappropriate he must have been both in that instance and in general. He got what he deserved and probably heard what he needed to hear if he has any hope of ever fitting in at the hospital.

On the other hand, if it were me, I would still feel that I had behaved unprofessionally - and you did. It was understandable, and in some sense deserved, but I would not have wanted to be the one to dish it out. Plus, a stern statement that he should talk to the vet tech that way, and a more detailed talking to in private may have served equally well (though it may not have, but still was worth trying first). Plus, as other commenters have said, it is his boss's job to discipline for general poor behavior, not yours - though I personally think you were right to defend the vet tech in front of the tech.

So it's a tough question. I would apologize for yelling at him in public, state that it was unprofessional and that you will do everything in your power to keep it from happening again. But explain that you find his behavior toward the vet tech utterly inappropriate and could never let that go by without a response. I'd probably say that I'd also have to inform his boss if I ever saw that happen, I find it so reprehensible. And I'd suggest that he apologize to the vet tech if he hasn't already.

Normally, I'd also make some positive comments - say everyone makes mistakes, that I had when I was starting out, and that it was wrong to focus on that. But I'd skip it here - this guy does sound like he needs all stick, no carrot.

Again - great question and good luck figuring out a response you're comfortable with.
posted by slide at 1:19 AM on March 4, 2011

As usual DarlingBri gets it right. I would add the caveat that maybe you want to run this by your boss first, explaining that you feel an apology is due not for what you said but for the way you delivered it.
posted by adamvasco at 2:22 AM on March 4, 2011 [1 favorite]

It seems to me like your boss is pushing the issue on you, in many ways. He's probably a busy boss, and probably doesn't want to / won't handle the issue in any meaningful way.

Chris sounds like an asshat, sure. But he's probably also willing to learn, if it's pointed out to him tactfully that how he handles himself as a vet and as a person is likely isn't winning him any friends.

I think it's reasonable to reach out to him. Arrange to have lunch together, and talk to him. Explain to him that you literally do not and have not felt the need to snap like that at any prior time in your career, but that he's young, inexperienced, and not only making amateurish mistakes that others have to fix, he's also being unprofessional and rude to others in the workplace, when he should be looking for as many learning opportunities as possible, because there are a thousand little things he could learn, as to technique, that would improve his performance.

Being the best vet possible should matter to him, or he shouldn't be doing it. Maybe he should ask himself whether or not it's important to him, because if he's professional and courteous, then his collegues will want to hrlp him to up his game.

And yes, this means you might have to help Chris become a better Chris... even if he is an asshat.
posted by markkraft at 2:29 AM on March 4, 2011

As someone who has been dealing with vets and vet hospitals a lot more this week than one would wish, let me say thank you.

The first people we see after registering for an ER visit are the vet techs. The vet techs ask us what's wrong. They take down notes. They ask follow up questions, and in our experience, they have an amazing capacity for empathy and understanding of what people are going through when they are worried about their pets. Our experience with numerous vet offices and numerous veterinary hospitals is that the people who take this job do so because they love animals and that some number of them have a desire to become veterinarians themselves, just as you did.

They shouldn't be told to "shut up when a doctor is talking" any more than a nurse in a hospital for humans should be.

This dressing down was probably a good thing for Chris. I agree that it wasn't very professional, but so what? I guarantee you that your reputation is probably far better at the hospital (and now among the vet techs) than his would ever be, and you now have the added benefit of being the doctor who stood up for a vet tech to another doctor.

Furthermore, respect is earned, even in the workplace. Chris doesn't appear to have earned any. I think this time you let it go. You have nothing to feel bad about here.
posted by zizzle at 2:53 AM on March 4, 2011 [5 favorites]

I work at a vet hospital (where the techs are respected as the knowledgeable, educated, caring and very skilled people they are), and THANK YOU for standing up for the tech and putting this asshat in his place. I agree with the young rope-rider and Darling Bri, I don't think you should apologize to Chris, but to the bystanders.
posted by biscotti at 4:34 AM on March 4, 2011 [1 favorite]

Your boss said not to apologise, don't. The thing is, this guy is an arrogant jerk. An apology isn't going to change his behavior. He NEEDED telling off, and he needed it in language he understands, which is obviously rude, confrontational, and public. If he goes to your boss and complains, she's going to probably laugh him out of her office - and hammer in the fact that he was wrong. If you'd called him on something he didn't do, then fine. But the mistake you yelled at him over was his fault, and if he's ashamed of people knowing about it... so should he be! Namecalling, well, that's not great, but I would bet that how you spoke to him is the only way to get through to him. He's going to take an apology as weakness, and confirmation that he didn't do anything wrong. Don't give him that.
posted by lemniskate at 4:50 AM on March 4, 2011 [1 favorite]

You're probably that tech's hero. For real. Can you even imagine the way he behaves when no other doctors are around, if he did THAT in front of someone who is clearly a very respected specialist on staff? Seriously, perhaps apologize to the tech for being loud, but that guy? No way.
posted by Medieval Maven at 5:07 AM on March 4, 2011

Best answer: Think about it from an animal behaviorist perspective: he is a clumsy, yippy puppy while you are the patient, properly-socialized adult dog. He finally got out of line enough that you nipped and growled in a corrective fashion. He owes -you- the apology bone, at which point you can praise him if he behaves in appropriate ways.

Clearly, I listen to Calling All Pets way too much.
posted by mimi at 5:36 AM on March 4, 2011

Response by poster: Thanks everyone for the input. After reading over all the responses several times, I took action. I just got off the phone after ordering flowers to be sent to the treatment room. The card will read...

"I want to apologize for losing my cool during rounds yesterday. VetTechName, you are a wonderful asset to the hospital, and I am proud to call you my peer. To everyone else, Chris included, I'm sorry for the volume. While I stand by my message, I certainly should have been more professional and respectful to our staff. Cupcakes to follow. -Nickle Pickle"



Thanks everyone for your responses. Am I the only one who thinks Ashley and DarlingBri should start an advice column?
posted by Nickel Pickle at 7:05 AM on March 4, 2011 [25 favorites]

Nice apology. The vet techs at this place will have your back forever after that.
posted by I am the Walrus at 8:50 AM on March 4, 2011 [1 favorite]

I had an employee who was a fricking arrogant asshat on many occasions. A few times, I lost it and yelled at him, then went through crises of I-am-such-a-bad-boss-oh-crap. Then our department got shut down, and my awesome employees put on a farewell show about everyone's lovable quirks and whatnot, with a section that had me in a superhero outfit ripping the asshat several new ones.
While it's not good to yell at an employee/co-worker, sometimes it has the benefit of showing the rest of the team that you have their backs against arrogant jerks who treat them like poop. And they will LOVE YOU FOR IT.
posted by L'Estrange Fruit at 8:54 AM on March 4, 2011 [1 favorite]