Why won't my oven and GFCI outlet cooperate?
March 1, 2011 7:43 PM Subscribe
My oven "trips" the GFCI outlet it's plugged into. Is this an oven problem or an outlet/wiring problem?
My stove/oven--a gas range with electronic ignition--just started to trip the GFCI outlet it plugs into. (A GFCI outlet being the kind with "test" and reset" buttons, often found in kitchens and bathrooms).
Two weeks ago, the igniter in the oven was replaced by a repairman working for the same company that sold me the oven about 3 years ago.
I've used the oven a couple times since the ingniter was replaced, but when I tried to use it today, it turned on for a while but then lost power and stopped heating (the oven light turned off and the digital clock went blank also). Testing out a few things made clear that the GFCI outlet simply will not flow power to the oven (the "reset" button pops out and won't pop back in"). (Other things plugged into that outlet run fine, and the oven runs fine when plugged into a non-GFCI outlet.)
I'll call the repair service back, or an electrician to get this fixed, but which do I need? What might the issue be?
If it's useful info, I'll offer that the oven is a Summit, Model #TNM13027BFKWY.
My stove/oven--a gas range with electronic ignition--just started to trip the GFCI outlet it plugs into. (A GFCI outlet being the kind with "test" and reset" buttons, often found in kitchens and bathrooms).
Two weeks ago, the igniter in the oven was replaced by a repairman working for the same company that sold me the oven about 3 years ago.
I've used the oven a couple times since the ingniter was replaced, but when I tried to use it today, it turned on for a while but then lost power and stopped heating (the oven light turned off and the digital clock went blank also). Testing out a few things made clear that the GFCI outlet simply will not flow power to the oven (the "reset" button pops out and won't pop back in"). (Other things plugged into that outlet run fine, and the oven runs fine when plugged into a non-GFCI outlet.)
I'll call the repair service back, or an electrician to get this fixed, but which do I need? What might the issue be?
If it's useful info, I'll offer that the oven is a Summit, Model #TNM13027BFKWY.
Igniters can cause a GFCI to trip because the spark generates electrical noise that can cause a false trigger of the sensitive detector. This is not uncommon. There are several possible solutions.
1. You can mention the problem to the repairman and have him check his installation of the igniter. There likely is nothing wrong. It may just be that the new igniter causes a bigger spark and more electrical noise.
2. Major appliances don't really require a GFCI for safety and some manufacturers do not recommend using one for just this false triggering problem. You may be able to plug into a non-GFCI outlet if available.
3. You can replace the GFCI with a newer model that has better immunity to false triggering.
posted by JackFlash at 9:32 PM on March 1, 2011
1. You can mention the problem to the repairman and have him check his installation of the igniter. There likely is nothing wrong. It may just be that the new igniter causes a bigger spark and more electrical noise.
2. Major appliances don't really require a GFCI for safety and some manufacturers do not recommend using one for just this false triggering problem. You may be able to plug into a non-GFCI outlet if available.
3. You can replace the GFCI with a newer model that has better immunity to false triggering.
posted by JackFlash at 9:32 PM on March 1, 2011
Try resetting the GFI with the stove unplugged. If there is nothing plugged in and it still won't reset, the GFI is bad. This is assuming that the GFI does not control any other loads or outlets. for the last few years GFIs have been made to not reset while a ground fault exists. GFIs are designed to trip at 3-5 milliamps, and it could be that the ignitor is faulting to ground instead of to the neutral. But I'm an electrician and not an appliance guy.
posted by l2p at 3:33 AM on March 2, 2011
posted by l2p at 3:33 AM on March 2, 2011
I am an electrician. You need an electrician.
If you range is in a dedicated location (meaning you do not move it), then by code it should not be plugged into a GFCI. See National Electrical Code Section 550.13(B)
Your situation is somewhat unusual because you actual have a 120volt / 15amp range. Most ranges are 240volt / 50amp. So usually, this is not even a question, you simply can not plug most ranges into a GFCI.
All appliances surge power. They have periods where they use very little power, and periods where they suddenly require lots of power. A GFCI detects power surges. When your range suddenly goes from pulling no power to pulling 15amps, the GFCI reads that as a dangerous over-current.
You need to plug your range into a regular receptacle. However, you should not just change the GFCI to a regular receptacle. You are required to have GFCI protection in your kitchen. GFCIs are an important safety devices. You should not simply remove one from your kitchen. Your range should have its own circuit. You should have an electrician run wire for a new receptacle, with a single plug, and use that for the range only.
This is the correct answer, but not the cheapest answer. Running a new circuit in a house can sometimes be pricey. Good luck.
posted by Flood at 5:16 AM on March 2, 2011
If you range is in a dedicated location (meaning you do not move it), then by code it should not be plugged into a GFCI. See National Electrical Code Section 550.13(B)
Your situation is somewhat unusual because you actual have a 120volt / 15amp range. Most ranges are 240volt / 50amp. So usually, this is not even a question, you simply can not plug most ranges into a GFCI.
All appliances surge power. They have periods where they use very little power, and periods where they suddenly require lots of power. A GFCI detects power surges. When your range suddenly goes from pulling no power to pulling 15amps, the GFCI reads that as a dangerous over-current.
You need to plug your range into a regular receptacle. However, you should not just change the GFCI to a regular receptacle. You are required to have GFCI protection in your kitchen. GFCIs are an important safety devices. You should not simply remove one from your kitchen. Your range should have its own circuit. You should have an electrician run wire for a new receptacle, with a single plug, and use that for the range only.
This is the correct answer, but not the cheapest answer. Running a new circuit in a house can sometimes be pricey. Good luck.
posted by Flood at 5:16 AM on March 2, 2011
Flood- it sounds like it is a gas oven with electric ignitors. I don't think those are normally 240v.
posted by gjc at 5:57 AM on March 2, 2011
posted by gjc at 5:57 AM on March 2, 2011
No, gjc, I think Flood is correct. Regardless of the voltage pulled by the stove/oven, they are supposed to be (required in everywhere I've ever lived) on their own circuit..
posted by k5.user at 6:39 AM on March 2, 2011
posted by k5.user at 6:39 AM on March 2, 2011
Response by poster: Thanks, Flood, for all that great info. Do you have any idea, though, why the oven operated just fine plugged into the GFCI for nearly three years and only became problematic after the new igniter was installed?
Also your point that "All appliances surge power" seems like a really important one. But is this still true of a mainly gas appliance, that only uses electricity for the ignition, digital clock, and lightbulb in the oven?
I really value your advice about getting the oven its own circuit in *addition* to the GFCI, but that could be even more complicated than usual. The kitchen in question is suuuper tiny (tiny like I can stand in the "middle" of the kitchen and reach the sink, stove, and fridge without stretching. Tiny like the size of many peoples' closets. Tiny like the whole apartment is 400 square feet) and as far as I know only has one electrical line even coming into it. (Power to the garbage disposal is "downstream" of the this outlet). Plus which, this is a coop (condo-like) apartment in a 1949 building with Soviet charm. The walls are--god I don't even really know what they're made of--but it's not drywall on studs, for sure. Lath and plaster along with a layer of what appear to be concrete.
My intent is not to dismiss your advice, but I guess I'm wondering if that new information about kitchen conditions changes/modifies your recommendation any.
Thanks!
posted by celilo at 6:59 AM on March 2, 2011
Also your point that "All appliances surge power" seems like a really important one. But is this still true of a mainly gas appliance, that only uses electricity for the ignition, digital clock, and lightbulb in the oven?
I really value your advice about getting the oven its own circuit in *addition* to the GFCI, but that could be even more complicated than usual. The kitchen in question is suuuper tiny (tiny like I can stand in the "middle" of the kitchen and reach the sink, stove, and fridge without stretching. Tiny like the size of many peoples' closets. Tiny like the whole apartment is 400 square feet) and as far as I know only has one electrical line even coming into it. (Power to the garbage disposal is "downstream" of the this outlet). Plus which, this is a coop (condo-like) apartment in a 1949 building with Soviet charm. The walls are--god I don't even really know what they're made of--but it's not drywall on studs, for sure. Lath and plaster along with a layer of what appear to be concrete.
My intent is not to dismiss your advice, but I guess I'm wondering if that new information about kitchen conditions changes/modifies your recommendation any.
Thanks!
posted by celilo at 6:59 AM on March 2, 2011
You know, I didnt read the specs on the unit carefully enough - I didnt realize it was a gas unit. I thought it was a small, mobile home type unit. In that case, it does not need its own circuit.
Nevertheless, it should still not be on a GFCI. Most likely, the new igniter is more efficient. The old igniter probably started slow, and gradually pulled enough electricity to ignite. The new igniter probably goes from drawing no power to lots of power very quickly, which the GFCI reads as a surge.
You should change the GFCI to a regular receptacle. But, you need to check what else is on that circuit. A GFCI can provide over-current protection for other receptacles down-stream from the flow of electricity. An electrician can wire the receptacles so that the one receptacle for the oven is not on the GFCI protection.
The main thing is, do not just have an electrician remove the GFCI. Like i said earlier, the GFCI is an important safety device. You need to have one in the kitchen.
I would also suggest that the receptacle where the Range is plugged in, you should have a single receptacle installed there. That way, the only thing that can be plugged in there is the Range. You do not want to have a general use receptacle in your kitchen that is not GFCI protected.
posted by Flood at 7:29 AM on March 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
Nevertheless, it should still not be on a GFCI. Most likely, the new igniter is more efficient. The old igniter probably started slow, and gradually pulled enough electricity to ignite. The new igniter probably goes from drawing no power to lots of power very quickly, which the GFCI reads as a surge.
You should change the GFCI to a regular receptacle. But, you need to check what else is on that circuit. A GFCI can provide over-current protection for other receptacles down-stream from the flow of electricity. An electrician can wire the receptacles so that the one receptacle for the oven is not on the GFCI protection.
The main thing is, do not just have an electrician remove the GFCI. Like i said earlier, the GFCI is an important safety device. You need to have one in the kitchen.
I would also suggest that the receptacle where the Range is plugged in, you should have a single receptacle installed there. That way, the only thing that can be plugged in there is the Range. You do not want to have a general use receptacle in your kitchen that is not GFCI protected.
posted by Flood at 7:29 AM on March 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
As I originally said, noise from the igniter is causing false triggering of the GFCI. You can have the repairman check the installation just to make sure it is installed correctly but the new igniter may just be making a slightly bigger spark than the old one which is causing the problem.
If you can't plug into a non-GFCI circuit, you may have luck with installing a newer GFCI that has better noise filtering. Designing a GFCI is a tricky task. It needs to detect a fault that represents less than 1 part in a 1000 of the current and do it in an environment that has lots of switching noise from things like refrigerator motors, microwave ovens, and oven igniters. All GFCIs will have slightly different filtering methods and one may work better than another in your particular situation. There is nothing wrong or unsafe with having your stove on the GFCI other than the annoyance of false triggering. Most manufacturers don't recommend it because of this problem.
Go back and check the three steps I wrote previously.
posted by JackFlash at 7:49 AM on March 2, 2011
If you can't plug into a non-GFCI circuit, you may have luck with installing a newer GFCI that has better noise filtering. Designing a GFCI is a tricky task. It needs to detect a fault that represents less than 1 part in a 1000 of the current and do it in an environment that has lots of switching noise from things like refrigerator motors, microwave ovens, and oven igniters. All GFCIs will have slightly different filtering methods and one may work better than another in your particular situation. There is nothing wrong or unsafe with having your stove on the GFCI other than the annoyance of false triggering. Most manufacturers don't recommend it because of this problem.
Go back and check the three steps I wrote previously.
posted by JackFlash at 7:49 AM on March 2, 2011
Response by poster: Thanks Flood and JackFlash. I don't mean to prolong the back-and-forth, but there's one more piece of info I'd like to run by everyone: Merely plugging in the range trips the GFCI (causes to pop out the "Reset" button).
I don't have any burners on, don't have the oven turned on, don't even have the light switch for the oven turned to "on." Honestly, pushing the plug from the range--with everything else off--into the GFCI outlet makes the button pop out INSTANTLY.
Could the igniter be creating this electrical noise even if I haven't turned the oven dial from "off" to a temperature?
posted by celilo at 6:52 PM on March 2, 2011
I don't have any burners on, don't have the oven turned on, don't even have the light switch for the oven turned to "on." Honestly, pushing the plug from the range--with everything else off--into the GFCI outlet makes the button pop out INSTANTLY.
Could the igniter be creating this electrical noise even if I haven't turned the oven dial from "off" to a temperature?
posted by celilo at 6:52 PM on March 2, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by drhydro at 8:15 PM on March 1, 2011