Not Your Beck And Call Girl
February 13, 2011 6:07 PM Subscribe
Help me understand modern dating. Why do guys think that endless/pointless txting is how they build meaningful relationships.
I'm a female in my early 30's. I re-entered the dating market last year after a multi-year committed relationship. I'm frustrated at the dating process (which seems greatly changed since I last dated).
I don't mind the lack of phone calls (I prefer txting as a general communication medium) as much as I'm concerned that planning a date a few days in advanced is no longer customary. Nearly all my new suitors are inclined to txt during the day "what are you doing"... "wanna get together tonight"... etc as opposed to asking me to go somewhere on a certain day at a certain time. I'm rejecting these types of advances but am concerned that guys will lose interest if I'm not willing to jump at the chance to see them.
Do I need to adjust my dating protocol expectations?
I'm a female in my early 30's. I re-entered the dating market last year after a multi-year committed relationship. I'm frustrated at the dating process (which seems greatly changed since I last dated).
I don't mind the lack of phone calls (I prefer txting as a general communication medium) as much as I'm concerned that planning a date a few days in advanced is no longer customary. Nearly all my new suitors are inclined to txt during the day "what are you doing"... "wanna get together tonight"... etc as opposed to asking me to go somewhere on a certain day at a certain time. I'm rejecting these types of advances but am concerned that guys will lose interest if I'm not willing to jump at the chance to see them.
Do I need to adjust my dating protocol expectations?
You could try steering them into the kind of date-planning you're more comfortable with. When they send a text that says "Wanna get together tonight?" you can reply "I can't tonight, but I'm free next Friday. If you'd like to plan something, let me know!" Then the ball is in their court to actually come up with a real plan and to communicate about it.
posted by amyms at 6:13 PM on February 13, 2011 [13 favorites]
posted by amyms at 6:13 PM on February 13, 2011 [13 favorites]
You may need to reframe your thinking about the "jumping at the chance to see them" part. They may just have some free time and would like to see you and would like to know if you have free time as well. I'm in complete agreement that you need to let these people know that you don't really do that, because, yes, they will lose interest if you keep saying no without explaining why. It seems pretty common these days to do what these gentleman are doing, so yeah, be clear.
posted by josher71 at 6:21 PM on February 13, 2011
posted by josher71 at 6:21 PM on February 13, 2011
My single 46 year old sister is not so computer literate, but she quickly learned that guys would be texting her on her cell to communicate about plans for that evening or the near future. It is just "normal" now. Technology in this fast paced world sometimes make you long for the good old days, no faxes, no emails, just snail mail and the telephone.
posted by sandyp at 6:28 PM on February 13, 2011
posted by sandyp at 6:28 PM on February 13, 2011
Do I need to adjust my dating protocol expectations?
Quite possibly, this is the way the world is heading. For hundreds of years, every time there has been an increase in how quickly and easily people can get in touch with each other, the customary length of time that plans are made in advance has shortened as a direct result.
In the last few years, phone have given way to cell phones, and cell phones have gone from ubiquitous to omnipresent, and the customary length of time in advance that people plan social engagements (that are not constrained by time factors such as event times) is in the midst of altering because of this.
You don't have to like it, and you can require people to meet your preferences, but I'd advise against assuming that this behavior likely speaks badly of the person, unless you've explicitly requested that they give you more notice and then they fail to do so.
posted by -harlequin- at 6:30 PM on February 13, 2011 [6 favorites]
Quite possibly, this is the way the world is heading. For hundreds of years, every time there has been an increase in how quickly and easily people can get in touch with each other, the customary length of time that plans are made in advance has shortened as a direct result.
In the last few years, phone have given way to cell phones, and cell phones have gone from ubiquitous to omnipresent, and the customary length of time in advance that people plan social engagements (that are not constrained by time factors such as event times) is in the midst of altering because of this.
You don't have to like it, and you can require people to meet your preferences, but I'd advise against assuming that this behavior likely speaks badly of the person, unless you've explicitly requested that they give you more notice and then they fail to do so.
posted by -harlequin- at 6:30 PM on February 13, 2011 [6 favorites]
Backing up josher71, I (male, similar in age) am also a planner-person, but when I get free time unexpectedly, I will send a message of this nature. At least at the beginning you may wish to interpret it with that in mind. Sometimes the early stages of dating are a bit more opportunistic.
Keep in mind that both you and the dating scene changed some while you were having a long term relationship, and now the combined effect may seem intense. It's OK to set boundaries or to have expectations, but if the mismatch is too great, or you feel you're missing out on otherwise worthwhile people, changing your expectations somewhat is par for the course.
FWIW, I didn't have a mobile phone for about 4 years, and I found that by the end of those four years, I was basically incompatible with the plan-making mechanisms of my friends, who are now about your age.
posted by fake at 6:33 PM on February 13, 2011
Keep in mind that both you and the dating scene changed some while you were having a long term relationship, and now the combined effect may seem intense. It's OK to set boundaries or to have expectations, but if the mismatch is too great, or you feel you're missing out on otherwise worthwhile people, changing your expectations somewhat is par for the course.
FWIW, I didn't have a mobile phone for about 4 years, and I found that by the end of those four years, I was basically incompatible with the plan-making mechanisms of my friends, who are now about your age.
posted by fake at 6:33 PM on February 13, 2011
Nearly all my new suitors are inclined to txt during the day "what are you doing"... "wanna get together tonight"... etc as opposed to asking me to go somewhere on a certain day at a certain time.
Well, they are asking you to do something on a certain day at a certain time. The day and time just aren't far enough in advance for you.
So, take charge of the situation. Let him know it's not enough notice. Suggest a different day. (This is assuming you're actually interested in him, of course.) If he doesn't get the message and keeps doing this, move on to someone else. You're not a helpless bystander in all this.
You seem to be attributing this pattern to something that's changed with "dating" itself since before your last relationship. I kind of doubt that. Not all men do this, and I'm sure there have always been some men who do it. I agree with you that it's not the best approach to dating.
posted by John Cohen at 6:35 PM on February 13, 2011 [3 favorites]
Well, they are asking you to do something on a certain day at a certain time. The day and time just aren't far enough in advance for you.
So, take charge of the situation. Let him know it's not enough notice. Suggest a different day. (This is assuming you're actually interested in him, of course.) If he doesn't get the message and keeps doing this, move on to someone else. You're not a helpless bystander in all this.
You seem to be attributing this pattern to something that's changed with "dating" itself since before your last relationship. I kind of doubt that. Not all men do this, and I'm sure there have always been some men who do it. I agree with you that it's not the best approach to dating.
posted by John Cohen at 6:35 PM on February 13, 2011 [3 favorites]
Plenty of people still things in advance. The problem isn't with the texting medium, per se, as you've already recognized.
These guys are either (1) looking for a booty call or (2) spontaneous (charitably; lazy, uncharitably). It sounds like you might want to looking and find some different dudes. Otherwise, tell them what you want in whatever manner you're most comfortable with.
posted by J. Wilson at 6:36 PM on February 13, 2011 [2 favorites]
These guys are either (1) looking for a booty call or (2) spontaneous (charitably; lazy, uncharitably). It sounds like you might want to looking and find some different dudes. Otherwise, tell them what you want in whatever manner you're most comfortable with.
posted by J. Wilson at 6:36 PM on February 13, 2011 [2 favorites]
I'm totally feeling this, anon. After the last year of giving fellows the benefit of the doubt ("that's just a different approach than mine/I'm a planner, he's spontaneous") and cheerfully suggesting we set something up for "next [INSERT NO-PRESSURE TIMEFRAME]" I have come to the sad conclusion that the "are you around?/what're you doing later" texty-guys are fatal non-starters. Even going with their flow ends up with them flaking out at some point, or, of course, a pattern of late in the evening "dates", which is not what I was looking for. I need advance notice of at least 2 or 3 days to feel, uh, to put it quaintly, respected.
posted by thinkpiece at 6:38 PM on February 13, 2011 [28 favorites]
posted by thinkpiece at 6:38 PM on February 13, 2011 [28 favorites]
Not to sound too cynical, but could they be averse to making plans in advance because they are seeing other people and want to keep their options open until the last minute? If that is the case, perhaps it's not so much about adjusting your dating expectations as finding a different pool of candidates or perhaps a different avenue along which to meet people.
posted by Morpeth at 6:44 PM on February 13, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by Morpeth at 6:44 PM on February 13, 2011 [3 favorites]
To me it's a boundary thing that signifies where things are. First month or so, when you're "seeing each other" - dates must be outings planned in advance. Hanging out at short notice sometimes is OK, especially if it's for an awesome reason. But by and large, yeah - you call on the telephone to schedule dates which are actual planned events. After that, when you're officially dating, maybe using the boyfriend/girlfriend, that's when you can text me to ask if I want to hang out right this second?
But if you're not comfortable with that system, you should just say so.
posted by Sara C. at 6:45 PM on February 13, 2011
But if you're not comfortable with that system, you should just say so.
posted by Sara C. at 6:45 PM on February 13, 2011
What thinkpiece said. They simply aren't trying to build "meaningful relationships."
posted by rhizome at 6:49 PM on February 13, 2011
posted by rhizome at 6:49 PM on February 13, 2011
They are keeping it casual. If you have some free time do you txt your friends and see if they are busy or do you just sit at home because you neglected to make plans weeks in advance.
posted by Ad hominem at 6:49 PM on February 13, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by Ad hominem at 6:49 PM on February 13, 2011 [5 favorites]
I don't think it's either an age nor a gender thing. I'm kind of in a similar situation, except I'm male, late-20s and she is early-30s. I'm more of a planner while she goes the spontaneous text/email route.
Solution was (gasp!) to communicate and find a middle ground. She makes more of an effort to make and stick to plans, while I have loosened up and learned to enjoy the unexpected mini-dates. I guess it's a bit of a new experience for both of us, but so far that seems to be a good thing.
posted by mannequito at 6:57 PM on February 13, 2011
Solution was (gasp!) to communicate and find a middle ground. She makes more of an effort to make and stick to plans, while I have loosened up and learned to enjoy the unexpected mini-dates. I guess it's a bit of a new experience for both of us, but so far that seems to be a good thing.
posted by mannequito at 6:57 PM on February 13, 2011
That whole last sentence was unclear. What I meant was that, once you're a few months in and it's officially a relationship, things can be a lot more casual and it's OK to text and ask someone to hang out in an impromptu manner.
Ugh. Cold medicine.
posted by Sara C. at 6:58 PM on February 13, 2011
Ugh. Cold medicine.
posted by Sara C. at 6:58 PM on February 13, 2011
I have come to the sad conclusion that the "are you around?/what're you doing later" texty-guys are fatal non-starters.
YES. save yourself a million billion hours of confusion, frustration and heartache by taking this comment to heart. I've met too many of these guys. Be firm about needing advance plans. I had one guy who cancelled on me twice and after the third time ( texted me when I was literally walking out the door, coat and makeup on), I sent him a "sounds like it won't work, good luck with everything" text. He was like "Wha? I don't get another chance?" NOPE.
posted by sweetkid at 7:33 PM on February 13, 2011 [17 favorites]
YES. save yourself a million billion hours of confusion, frustration and heartache by taking this comment to heart. I've met too many of these guys. Be firm about needing advance plans. I had one guy who cancelled on me twice and after the third time ( texted me when I was literally walking out the door, coat and makeup on), I sent him a "sounds like it won't work, good luck with everything" text. He was like "Wha? I don't get another chance?" NOPE.
posted by sweetkid at 7:33 PM on February 13, 2011 [17 favorites]
As a guy in my late 20s, I know what you are talking about. However, I think it's both the type of guy you are dating plus how the dating scene has changed. Making plans a week in advance is no longer the norm, neither is scheduling a date just for Thursday, Friday, or Saturday night. However, no - most people I know would not drop everything because somebody texted them at 1 asking for a date at 6. A day or two in advance is pretty normal. Of course, if your a single mom - then yes, a week does come into play as the little one needs to be taken care of.
So pretty much, I would say next time a guy texts you stating - let's meet up tonight, just say that I have plans but I'm free next xxx. Just casually drop that you are busy with your career, friends, gym, TV show, etc. Most guys wouldn't be offended stating that I can't get together tonight but I can tomorrow or the next. I personally would be very annoyed if I could only get a date with a girl making plans 12 hours in advance. I would say that it's pretty normal to toss plan a date and have a counter; actually it's kind of expected.
Also, I need to state that if your just a booty call for them, then a few hours notice is pretty norm. But I don't get that impression off your post that it's just a hookup.
posted by lpcxa0 at 7:42 PM on February 13, 2011
So pretty much, I would say next time a guy texts you stating - let's meet up tonight, just say that I have plans but I'm free next xxx. Just casually drop that you are busy with your career, friends, gym, TV show, etc. Most guys wouldn't be offended stating that I can't get together tonight but I can tomorrow or the next. I personally would be very annoyed if I could only get a date with a girl making plans 12 hours in advance. I would say that it's pretty normal to toss plan a date and have a counter; actually it's kind of expected.
Also, I need to state that if your just a booty call for them, then a few hours notice is pretty norm. But I don't get that impression off your post that it's just a hookup.
posted by lpcxa0 at 7:42 PM on February 13, 2011
As far as I'm concerned, this type of communication is only 1/2 step above a booty call. At best, it says that they aren't really thinking too much about you aside from the spur of the moment, and at worst, it means that you are their last "go to" for fun when everything else falls through. The minute a guy starts this with me, I drop them. Forever alone? Maybe, but at least I know what I'm doing Friday night.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 8:04 PM on February 13, 2011 [10 favorites]
posted by The Light Fantastic at 8:04 PM on February 13, 2011 [10 favorites]
If it sends the wrong signal, bail.
I'm in the same "pool" and I HATE HATE HATE that game. At best, it is a sign someone still thinks they are in college. At worst, they are [insert awful here].
Texting is for in-between date flirting. It is for confirmation or quick changes. It can even be for planning. But not for endlessly dancing around or playing the "best option" game.
posted by gjc at 8:28 PM on February 13, 2011 [2 favorites]
I'm in the same "pool" and I HATE HATE HATE that game. At best, it is a sign someone still thinks they are in college. At worst, they are [insert awful here].
Texting is for in-between date flirting. It is for confirmation or quick changes. It can even be for planning. But not for endlessly dancing around or playing the "best option" game.
posted by gjc at 8:28 PM on February 13, 2011 [2 favorites]
I have a feeling you might be doing online dating? (as lots of us have). If that's the case, most people with profiles are seeing multiple people, especially in the beginning. THat makes for some guys who can make plans at the last minute because if one woman says no, there will likely be another one available. I don't know what to say except that it's very common.
Also, maybe you can try asking the guys out, in advance?
posted by bearette at 10:33 PM on February 13, 2011
Also, maybe you can try asking the guys out, in advance?
posted by bearette at 10:33 PM on February 13, 2011
Feel free to say no if it's not convenient, or you don't want to. Otherwise, say yes.
But it seems like this is not really about you being busy, but about making the guy jump through some hoops for you, to "prove" something to you.
I need advance notice of at least 2 or 3 days to feel, uh, to put it quaintly, respected.
Why, because spending time with a guy (or, heaven forbid, having sex with him) is some kind of shameful act unless it's part of a marriage courtship? What exactly do you lose by seeing him?
posted by dave99 at 11:02 PM on February 13, 2011 [2 favorites]
But it seems like this is not really about you being busy, but about making the guy jump through some hoops for you, to "prove" something to you.
I need advance notice of at least 2 or 3 days to feel, uh, to put it quaintly, respected.
Why, because spending time with a guy (or, heaven forbid, having sex with him) is some kind of shameful act unless it's part of a marriage courtship? What exactly do you lose by seeing him?
posted by dave99 at 11:02 PM on February 13, 2011 [2 favorites]
There's another possible reason here that I think comes into play.
I think these guys keep it casual because they don't yet know what they feel. They met you once, say, and got a good vibe. A casual meetup at a bar is the next step in getting a sense of chemistry.
As a guy, I can understand this. Dates in the traditional sense are not the best way for two people to get to know each other.
I have a sense anon might be in San Francisco, though I imagine it could be anywhere. This behavior is in line with a lot of stories my ladyfrinds here tell and I think speaks to a sort of romantic listlessness that is born (partially) of gender disparities in the dating pool (i.e. the dudes are too comfortable).
posted by wemayfreeze at 11:34 PM on February 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
I think these guys keep it casual because they don't yet know what they feel. They met you once, say, and got a good vibe. A casual meetup at a bar is the next step in getting a sense of chemistry.
As a guy, I can understand this. Dates in the traditional sense are not the best way for two people to get to know each other.
I have a sense anon might be in San Francisco, though I imagine it could be anywhere. This behavior is in line with a lot of stories my ladyfrinds here tell and I think speaks to a sort of romantic listlessness that is born (partially) of gender disparities in the dating pool (i.e. the dudes are too comfortable).
posted by wemayfreeze at 11:34 PM on February 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
The only ones who text me are my cell phone company and my landlord (and my daughter, when she's on some Yoga venue in rural Italy). Matter of thinking that a healthy talk is for grandparents and that e-mail is Sooo Millennium.
If you accept the medium, you'll have to live with the consequences. One is that you can't find appointments for 'day after tomorrow' back without a stupid search in the pleistocene of your inbox; much easier to text "hey wanna meet now" and get over it, like, fast.
posted by Namlit at 1:12 AM on February 14, 2011
If you accept the medium, you'll have to live with the consequences. One is that you can't find appointments for 'day after tomorrow' back without a stupid search in the pleistocene of your inbox; much easier to text "hey wanna meet now" and get over it, like, fast.
posted by Namlit at 1:12 AM on February 14, 2011
I think it's rude to expect a date on short notice. If nothing else, it's going to take me at least an hour to wash and dry my hair to make myself presentable.
Would I do this if I was meeting friends in a bar? Probably not. For a date? Absolutely. If I think it's a sexytime date this getting-ready timescale scales proportionately: I might need to change the sheets, tidy the house, wax my legs or whatever.
OP, I would feel free to text this sort of guy back (if you are already interested in them) with 'not tonight, how about X night some time in the near future?'. If they're not interested in you solely because you're not available 24/7, well, that's probably worth knowing upfront.
posted by citands at 3:42 AM on February 14, 2011 [2 favorites]
Would I do this if I was meeting friends in a bar? Probably not. For a date? Absolutely. If I think it's a sexytime date this getting-ready timescale scales proportionately: I might need to change the sheets, tidy the house, wax my legs or whatever.
OP, I would feel free to text this sort of guy back (if you are already interested in them) with 'not tonight, how about X night some time in the near future?'. If they're not interested in you solely because you're not available 24/7, well, that's probably worth knowing upfront.
posted by citands at 3:42 AM on February 14, 2011 [2 favorites]
"I need advance notice of at least 2 or 3 days to feel, uh, to put it quaintly, respected."
Why, because spending time with a guy (or, heaven forbid, having sex with him) is some kind of shameful act unless it's part of a marriage courtship? What exactly do you lose by seeing him? dave99
Shameful acts? Huh? Marriage? Courtship? Yeah, no. You are hearing something else in my words. Talk about quaint!
posted by thinkpiece at 4:20 AM on February 14, 2011 [3 favorites]
Why, because spending time with a guy (or, heaven forbid, having sex with him) is some kind of shameful act unless it's part of a marriage courtship? What exactly do you lose by seeing him? dave99
Shameful acts? Huh? Marriage? Courtship? Yeah, no. You are hearing something else in my words. Talk about quaint!
posted by thinkpiece at 4:20 AM on February 14, 2011 [3 favorites]
I agree with much of what was said in the vein of:
...when I get free time unexpectedly, I will send a message of this nature. At least at the beginning you may wish to interpret it with that in mind. Sometimes the early stages of dating are a bit more opportunistic.
Alternatively, I have occasionally felt the need to send a similar message/phone call/etc early on in the dating scenario with someone as it's light and casual, and it's states "Hey, I want to spend time with you, I'm thinking about you, and am putting out feelers to see if you feel the same."
Of course, if I have been on a few (to my perspective, anyway) successful, bonding type dates, I will abandon the "I'm free today, what's up?" tactic for more concrete plans.
posted by Debaser626 at 5:58 AM on February 14, 2011 [2 favorites]
...when I get free time unexpectedly, I will send a message of this nature. At least at the beginning you may wish to interpret it with that in mind. Sometimes the early stages of dating are a bit more opportunistic.
Alternatively, I have occasionally felt the need to send a similar message/phone call/etc early on in the dating scenario with someone as it's light and casual, and it's states "Hey, I want to spend time with you, I'm thinking about you, and am putting out feelers to see if you feel the same."
Of course, if I have been on a few (to my perspective, anyway) successful, bonding type dates, I will abandon the "I'm free today, what's up?" tactic for more concrete plans.
posted by Debaser626 at 5:58 AM on February 14, 2011 [2 favorites]
There's another possible reason here that I think comes into play.
I think these guys keep it casual because they don't yet know what they feel. They met you once, say, and got a good vibe. A casual meetup at a bar is the next step in getting a sense of chemistry.
As a guy, I can understand this. Dates in the traditional sense are not the best way for two people to get to know each other.
All a "date" is is a planned outing. There is no need for a giant box of candy, meeting Dad, and format courtship on the veranda. Planned does not have to mean formal. To me, planning means exactly what you said: there's a spark and and I would like to get to know you more.
Purposefully not planning is game playing. The "want to meet at O'Hooligans in an hour?" text is an attempt to take all the pressure of rejection off of one party and put it onto the other one. If the recipient does like the sender, they have to drop everything and go, because they fear saying no would jeopardize the potential relationship. And the asker doesn't have to put themselves out there and invest anything in getting rejected. It is a silly "do you like me check yes or no" game.
Worse, it can be a way to back in to a relationship by just "hanging out" repeatedly. It is kind of like building familiarity without going through all the work. Yeah, we are strangers, but we act like friends, so eventually inertia will keep us together. It is, to some people anyway, a presumption or an imposition, an unnatural escalation of the relationship, the same way as saying I love you after the first date is.
If you like someone, the grownup way to telegraph that is to show that person that you are willing to make solid plans with them.
posted by gjc at 7:48 AM on February 14, 2011 [13 favorites]
I think these guys keep it casual because they don't yet know what they feel. They met you once, say, and got a good vibe. A casual meetup at a bar is the next step in getting a sense of chemistry.
As a guy, I can understand this. Dates in the traditional sense are not the best way for two people to get to know each other.
All a "date" is is a planned outing. There is no need for a giant box of candy, meeting Dad, and format courtship on the veranda. Planned does not have to mean formal. To me, planning means exactly what you said: there's a spark and and I would like to get to know you more.
Purposefully not planning is game playing. The "want to meet at O'Hooligans in an hour?" text is an attempt to take all the pressure of rejection off of one party and put it onto the other one. If the recipient does like the sender, they have to drop everything and go, because they fear saying no would jeopardize the potential relationship. And the asker doesn't have to put themselves out there and invest anything in getting rejected. It is a silly "do you like me check yes or no" game.
Worse, it can be a way to back in to a relationship by just "hanging out" repeatedly. It is kind of like building familiarity without going through all the work. Yeah, we are strangers, but we act like friends, so eventually inertia will keep us together. It is, to some people anyway, a presumption or an imposition, an unnatural escalation of the relationship, the same way as saying I love you after the first date is.
If you like someone, the grownup way to telegraph that is to show that person that you are willing to make solid plans with them.
posted by gjc at 7:48 AM on February 14, 2011 [13 favorites]
gjc, exactly.
posted by thinkpiece at 7:56 AM on February 14, 2011
posted by thinkpiece at 7:56 AM on February 14, 2011
So the guy asks you "wanna get together tonight" but you were expecting a specific date and time and thus you reject the guy entirely? Well, he gave you a date (today) and a relative time, so I don't see the problem. What would you rather he say "Would you like to get together tonight after work, sometime in the evening, but not too late, though I guess we all have different definitions of 'too late' so just let me know when you'd like to grab dinner or maybe a post-coffee dinner coffee"?
That's rather silly. He's giving you a date. And he doesn't know your personal schedule, so he's leaving it open ended. the conversation could go like this:
Him: Would you like to get together tonight?
You: Sure, I get out of work at 5:30, so how about a 7pm dinner? I like Mexican.
Him: Sounds great, I'll meat you at Pancho's on 34th?
You: Great, I'm looking forward to it.
This way you're both involved in picking the when and the where. It seems you are more conservative and thus your expectation is for the male to cover all the bases and you simply accept or decline. You seem to be expecting:
Him: Would you like to get together tonight? How about 6pm at the new Korean place on Market?
You: Sorry, that doesn't work for me.
See the problem there? He doesn't know that you don't like Korean (and in fact prefer Mexican) and he doesn't know that you would like more time to go home after work to freshen up and that you get out at 5:30.
Now, you may be personally against last minute plans (I am, since I am a planner and even if I have nothing going on, disrupting my mental expectations of the day is not something I like) then the conversation could go something more like this:
Him: Would you like to get together tonight?
You: Sorry, I'm busy tonight, I've got plans with my friends. Maybe this weekend is free for you?
Him: Sure, want me to touch base then?
You: Well, let's set something up now, I'm a bit of a planner and besides, it will give me something to look forward to.
Him: Sure, how about Saturday?
You: Great, want to head to that new bar on East 18th?
Him: I've wanted to head over there, how about 10pm?
You: Great, I'll see you then.
Now he knows that you like more notice. He isn't a mind reader. And if he's the type that doesn't want to feel tied down with plans all the time, he knows that in advance that being with you will require some planning.
If you want him to do all the planning becuase you're of the mentality that male suitors should take the lead and you simply accept of decline each one of their advances in some bizarro courtship routine, there's ways to explain this was well. Such as:
Him: Would you like to get together tonight?
You: Sure, I'm free. What would you like to do?
Him: How about pizza at Mario's on 28th?
You: Sure, what time?
Him: 6:30?
You: Sorry, it will have to be a bit later than that for me.
Him: 7:30?
You: That works, I'll see you then.
If I was the guy there, I'd be annoyed that the conversation had to be so one-sided. I have no idea what time works for you, you've provided no input whatsoever for me to figure out what would be mutually agreeable, you simply answer yes or no. But if you explained to me over pizza that I made a good choice and you liked the food and preferred for the guy to do all the deciding (with you retaining some bizarre veto power) then at least I'd understand what was going on. At this point, I'd bail. But maybe you'd find a guy who thinks that as the guy, he should be doing all the deciding.
posted by Brian Puccio at 8:36 AM on February 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
That's rather silly. He's giving you a date. And he doesn't know your personal schedule, so he's leaving it open ended. the conversation could go like this:
Him: Would you like to get together tonight?
You: Sure, I get out of work at 5:30, so how about a 7pm dinner? I like Mexican.
Him: Sounds great, I'll meat you at Pancho's on 34th?
You: Great, I'm looking forward to it.
This way you're both involved in picking the when and the where. It seems you are more conservative and thus your expectation is for the male to cover all the bases and you simply accept or decline. You seem to be expecting:
Him: Would you like to get together tonight? How about 6pm at the new Korean place on Market?
You: Sorry, that doesn't work for me.
See the problem there? He doesn't know that you don't like Korean (and in fact prefer Mexican) and he doesn't know that you would like more time to go home after work to freshen up and that you get out at 5:30.
Now, you may be personally against last minute plans (I am, since I am a planner and even if I have nothing going on, disrupting my mental expectations of the day is not something I like) then the conversation could go something more like this:
Him: Would you like to get together tonight?
You: Sorry, I'm busy tonight, I've got plans with my friends. Maybe this weekend is free for you?
Him: Sure, want me to touch base then?
You: Well, let's set something up now, I'm a bit of a planner and besides, it will give me something to look forward to.
Him: Sure, how about Saturday?
You: Great, want to head to that new bar on East 18th?
Him: I've wanted to head over there, how about 10pm?
You: Great, I'll see you then.
Now he knows that you like more notice. He isn't a mind reader. And if he's the type that doesn't want to feel tied down with plans all the time, he knows that in advance that being with you will require some planning.
If you want him to do all the planning becuase you're of the mentality that male suitors should take the lead and you simply accept of decline each one of their advances in some bizarro courtship routine, there's ways to explain this was well. Such as:
Him: Would you like to get together tonight?
You: Sure, I'm free. What would you like to do?
Him: How about pizza at Mario's on 28th?
You: Sure, what time?
Him: 6:30?
You: Sorry, it will have to be a bit later than that for me.
Him: 7:30?
You: That works, I'll see you then.
If I was the guy there, I'd be annoyed that the conversation had to be so one-sided. I have no idea what time works for you, you've provided no input whatsoever for me to figure out what would be mutually agreeable, you simply answer yes or no. But if you explained to me over pizza that I made a good choice and you liked the food and preferred for the guy to do all the deciding (with you retaining some bizarre veto power) then at least I'd understand what was going on. At this point, I'd bail. But maybe you'd find a guy who thinks that as the guy, he should be doing all the deciding.
posted by Brian Puccio at 8:36 AM on February 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
Hm, Brian, I don't get that vibe from Anon here.
I agree with several of the posters that these tactics, text-related or not, could be pertinent to dating behaviors, tradition, 'sign of the times', whatever. However, imho, in general, whether people know it or not, if a person really wants to do something with you then they will plan accordingly with you if you ask nicely.
If they don't - then they don't want to (all that much). People just hate rejecting other people, or admitting that the reason they 'flake' or don't want to do thing X on your time is because they simply don't wanna.
This is not me putting down Anon, either. I run into this with just planning things with people who are my friends for all kinds of activities, text-style-planning, or not. If it was important enough for them, they'd decide to make the time.
posted by bitterkitten at 9:50 AM on February 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
I agree with several of the posters that these tactics, text-related or not, could be pertinent to dating behaviors, tradition, 'sign of the times', whatever. However, imho, in general, whether people know it or not, if a person really wants to do something with you then they will plan accordingly with you if you ask nicely.
If they don't - then they don't want to (all that much). People just hate rejecting other people, or admitting that the reason they 'flake' or don't want to do thing X on your time is because they simply don't wanna.
This is not me putting down Anon, either. I run into this with just planning things with people who are my friends for all kinds of activities, text-style-planning, or not. If it was important enough for them, they'd decide to make the time.
posted by bitterkitten at 9:50 AM on February 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
Guys who are interested will pursue dates with you... to a point. If you keep shooting them down with "I'm busy" yeah you're making it obvious you're not into them. If you say "I can't tonight but how about a few days from now?" then you're letting them know you're interested. If they drop the ball here, then they weren't worth your time.
And when you meet up, casually mention "I'm just not the kind of girl who likes last-minute dates with someone I barely know. Cheapens the experience. Call me old-fashioned that way ;)"
posted by lizbunny at 10:20 AM on February 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
And when you meet up, casually mention "I'm just not the kind of girl who likes last-minute dates with someone I barely know. Cheapens the experience. Call me old-fashioned that way ;)"
posted by lizbunny at 10:20 AM on February 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
For me, "want to meet in an hour?" carries way less pressure than "want to meet in a week?" precisely because it's such short notice.
posted by yaymukund at 10:54 AM on February 14, 2011
posted by yaymukund at 10:54 AM on February 14, 2011
For me, "want to meet in an hour?" carries way less pressure than "want to meet in a week?" precisely because it's such short notice.
Yes, that's the part some of the women don't like. Deborah Tannen would do better than me, but you can probably substitute "pressure" for "thought" in girl-speak.
posted by thinkpiece at 11:27 AM on February 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
Yes, that's the part some of the women don't like. Deborah Tannen would do better than me, but you can probably substitute "pressure" for "thought" in girl-speak.
posted by thinkpiece at 11:27 AM on February 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
People are just less formal than they used to be. "Want to meet in an hour" isn't just less pressure, it's more real. I don't know about you, but I only schedule appointments with the people close to me when it's the only way to guarantee availability. What's the point? You're free, I'm free, let's hang out!
(I'm married, by the way. I felt that my relationship with my wife really started on our third "date", which was a "Hey, you're off early, I'm off early, let's get a drink!" kind of thing instead of "I'll pick you up Friday at 8.")
posted by callmejay at 1:26 PM on February 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
(I'm married, by the way. I felt that my relationship with my wife really started on our third "date", which was a "Hey, you're off early, I'm off early, let's get a drink!" kind of thing instead of "I'll pick you up Friday at 8.")
posted by callmejay at 1:26 PM on February 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
I agree with thinkpiece and gjc, and I've been having the same problem myself. It seems like the men make very little effort now...just 'you wanna hang out sometime' etc. To which I end up feeling like a reported chasing the 5w's: where, when, how etc. People are different and I am a planner but I also get up super early, have big commutes etc and want to ENJOY my time with the other person. And I totally agree with thinkpiece and gjc that it is more respectful for the other person to contact you in advance, to arrange a time, event etc that is maximally agreeable to you both. I want to meet you...but not in an hour. And if i'm thinking about you, I would also like you to be thinking about me, in advance and wondering when we can get together next. (and as a tragic romantic, I also want to be able to anticipate the date and look forward to it). But i'm an old (well...relatively), and again, a planner. I've never been spontaneous so...maybe that's why my dating life hasn't been the best ever?? But when it works, it works, and that's worth waiting for, IMO.
posted by bquarters at 2:00 PM on February 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by bquarters at 2:00 PM on February 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
+1 for thinkpiece. Here's what I wrote on my ad to weed out guys who couldn't be bothered to use the telephone to plan initial dates/get to know one another.
"Please be prepared to actually have an adult conversation by phone. Texting as a means to get to know someone is for 12-year-olds."
posted by notjustfoxybrown at 3:53 PM on February 15, 2011
"Please be prepared to actually have an adult conversation by phone. Texting as a means to get to know someone is for 12-year-olds."
posted by notjustfoxybrown at 3:53 PM on February 15, 2011
Jesus you people are uptight. Just because a guy doesn't want to get the t-square out to plan a formal evening with you and leave his calling card in the little bowl in your foyer while you wait with your attendants doesn't mean he doesn't respect you. Sometimes he might get some unexpected free time and want to see you/get to know you better. We live in a blessed world where communication is so easy and free-flowing, where conversations can be stopped and restarted endlessly over the course of several days, and where two humans can meet up anywhere they want on a whim at the last possible moment. It's fun! Get rid of your damn hangups and just assume that the guy is thinking about you for a little second and thinks seeing you soon would be really nice.
posted by deafmute at 6:33 AM on February 16, 2011
posted by deafmute at 6:33 AM on February 16, 2011
Texting as a means to get to know someone is for 12-year-olds.
OP says she prefers texting as a means of communication.
Could be a selection bias in there. Some men do not prefer texting as a means of communication.
posted by fake at 7:17 AM on February 16, 2011
OP says she prefers texting as a means of communication.
Could be a selection bias in there. Some men do not prefer texting as a means of communication.
posted by fake at 7:17 AM on February 16, 2011
I agree with all those who say there is a problem.
I am so tired of feeling like last minute, 'nothing else to do,' fill-in.
Why why why are these men this way?
I am early 40s, fit, smart, independent professional and pretty by many men's judgement.
I've given up.
I recently stated to a man I have dated 1 time that I like to make plans until I get to know a man better, then see what happens. He respected it but has had partial follow through.
I guess I take it as a sign that they are not interested in the possibility of a real relationship, when they ask me to do things a few hours in advance.
And then when they say they will call and don't. I guess I just take it all as hints and cues as to what kind of man they are and what they really want.
It's just a little discouraging to see this is the way men are evolving to now.
I don't like it and guess I'll just end up alone rather than be last minutes here and there.
That's sad too.
posted by bananaskin at 2:35 PM on April 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
I am so tired of feeling like last minute, 'nothing else to do,' fill-in.
Why why why are these men this way?
I am early 40s, fit, smart, independent professional and pretty by many men's judgement.
I've given up.
I recently stated to a man I have dated 1 time that I like to make plans until I get to know a man better, then see what happens. He respected it but has had partial follow through.
I guess I take it as a sign that they are not interested in the possibility of a real relationship, when they ask me to do things a few hours in advance.
And then when they say they will call and don't. I guess I just take it all as hints and cues as to what kind of man they are and what they really want.
It's just a little discouraging to see this is the way men are evolving to now.
I don't like it and guess I'll just end up alone rather than be last minutes here and there.
That's sad too.
posted by bananaskin at 2:35 PM on April 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
« Older Kicking the bucket, one console at a time | How can I view my webcam from my Android-powered... Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by decathecting at 6:10 PM on February 13, 2011 [3 favorites]