How can I have a good time around someone I'd rather never see again?
February 11, 2011 3:20 PM Subscribe
What's the best way to deal with being around a guy who really hurt my feelings (not romantically), without killing everyone's good time?
I have a pretty specific question (bolded below), and I'm a little worried about derails, so my plea is that the following basic facts can just be taken as given:
A guy in my social circle - not someone I was ever personally friends or romantically involved with - said quite a few specific, VERY nasty, hurtful, and frankly, somewhat true things about my appearance to entertain someone else, when I wasn't around. To my face, he's always been very neutral.
It happened a while ago, I just don't go places where he'll be, and that's been totally fine with me. I didn't want an apology, didn't want to talk to him about it, just didn't want to waste any time with him or have people like him in my life. That's been a good solution.
Apparently, I'll need to start being around him again, perhaps a few times a month. And I'll need to start being around him in situations where people want to have a good time. The reason why I have to do this isn't important, it's just how it is.
How do I do this? Just the thought of acting around him like everything he did is totally okay and we're all having a great time together, and seeing everyone act like he's such an awesome guy, really grinds my gears. Of course, I will behave that way when I do see him, but just the idea is making me clenched. Usually it'll just be us and one or two other people, so I won't be able to avoid him.How do I become more zen about this? It would be nice to get to the point where I actually *can* have a good time.
I have a pretty specific question (bolded below), and I'm a little worried about derails, so my plea is that the following basic facts can just be taken as given:
A guy in my social circle - not someone I was ever personally friends or romantically involved with - said quite a few specific, VERY nasty, hurtful, and frankly, somewhat true things about my appearance to entertain someone else, when I wasn't around. To my face, he's always been very neutral.
It happened a while ago, I just don't go places where he'll be, and that's been totally fine with me. I didn't want an apology, didn't want to talk to him about it, just didn't want to waste any time with him or have people like him in my life. That's been a good solution.
Apparently, I'll need to start being around him again, perhaps a few times a month. And I'll need to start being around him in situations where people want to have a good time. The reason why I have to do this isn't important, it's just how it is.
How do I do this? Just the thought of acting around him like everything he did is totally okay and we're all having a great time together, and seeing everyone act like he's such an awesome guy, really grinds my gears. Of course, I will behave that way when I do see him, but just the idea is making me clenched. Usually it'll just be us and one or two other people, so I won't be able to avoid him.How do I become more zen about this? It would be nice to get to the point where I actually *can* have a good time.
I am a bad human being, I know, but I am quite sure that what I would do is think up some funny and true things to say about his appearance, and, that done, would entertain others who know the two of you with my observations when he is not around. This would make me feel better and able to see him at subsequent events without a single qualm.
Alternately, at social gatherings just focus on the other people. Even if there's only one.
posted by bearwife at 3:30 PM on February 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
Alternately, at social gatherings just focus on the other people. Even if there's only one.
posted by bearwife at 3:30 PM on February 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
Maybe you will hate this advice.
But I would honestly, truly try to forgive him. Tell yourself all the things that our mothers console us with - he needs to bring others down to make himself feel better, he's insecure, etc. - and see if you really can feel okay about his past jerkiness. Don't worry about any of the other pieces - people wondering if you know the things he's said, and so on - try to let it all go.
And if he does it again, drop the asshole and people who think he's great. Don't mince words when you tell them why.
posted by peachfuzz at 3:37 PM on February 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
But I would honestly, truly try to forgive him. Tell yourself all the things that our mothers console us with - he needs to bring others down to make himself feel better, he's insecure, etc. - and see if you really can feel okay about his past jerkiness. Don't worry about any of the other pieces - people wondering if you know the things he's said, and so on - try to let it all go.
And if he does it again, drop the asshole and people who think he's great. Don't mince words when you tell them why.
posted by peachfuzz at 3:37 PM on February 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
I personally like this quote:
" If you hear that someone is speaking ill of you, instead of trying to defend yourself you should say: "He obviously does not know me very well, since there are so many other faults he could have mentioned."
- Epictetus
posted by 7life at 3:50 PM on February 11, 2011 [117 favorites]
" If you hear that someone is speaking ill of you, instead of trying to defend yourself you should say: "He obviously does not know me very well, since there are so many other faults he could have mentioned."
- Epictetus
posted by 7life at 3:50 PM on February 11, 2011 [117 favorites]
What a jerk. This has happened to me too. I just ignored the guy everytime I saw him after that. I would recommend that course of action. This is easier to do if you're in a large group but can be managed in a smaller one too. Don't be a jerk about ignoring him, just do it.
posted by Ziggy500 at 3:51 PM on February 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Ziggy500 at 3:51 PM on February 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
I could only be Zen about this after I'd let him know I know, in front of as many other friends as possible, pretending to be thoroughly amused by the whole thing ("Well, Bob thinks my nose is so big it deserves it's own Zip Code, don't you know") and then watched him look mortified.
But maybe you can't/don't want to do that. In that case, I think the best thing would be try as hard as you can to imagine he said it about someone else. Don't take it personally, just with this knowledge of how he treats people in mind, demote him to a lower rank of acquaintance. If before this he was "guy in my social circle who's nice enough, I guess" now he's "guy who's good for limited things (telling jokes, discussing movies) but completely untrustworthy outside of that." Once you have really low expectations of him, you might be able to keep him there on the periphery of your circle without being too bothered by his presence.
posted by DestinationUnknown at 3:51 PM on February 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
But maybe you can't/don't want to do that. In that case, I think the best thing would be try as hard as you can to imagine he said it about someone else. Don't take it personally, just with this knowledge of how he treats people in mind, demote him to a lower rank of acquaintance. If before this he was "guy in my social circle who's nice enough, I guess" now he's "guy who's good for limited things (telling jokes, discussing movies) but completely untrustworthy outside of that." Once you have really low expectations of him, you might be able to keep him there on the periphery of your circle without being too bothered by his presence.
posted by DestinationUnknown at 3:51 PM on February 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
Remind yourself that it doesn't matter what he thinks. Because, really, it doesn't.
posted by wv kay in ga at 3:57 PM on February 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by wv kay in ga at 3:57 PM on February 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
I know this is easier said than done, but seriously, take back the power you've given him to make you feel bad.
Let's assume he said those things specifically to hurt you (probably not even true). What would be the most powerful counterattack? To not be hurt by them, at least not to the extent that it cramps your style or dictates your social life. I'm not saying you should buddy up to him, but as bearwife recommends, just focus on everybody else, have a good time in spite of attempts to bring you down, and you've nailed it.
I am one of the more spiteful and grudge-y people I know, but this has helped me lots in these situations. And if makes you feel any better, if he's as big an asshole as he sounds, others will see it soon enough.
posted by Rykey at 3:57 PM on February 11, 2011
Let's assume he said those things specifically to hurt you (probably not even true). What would be the most powerful counterattack? To not be hurt by them, at least not to the extent that it cramps your style or dictates your social life. I'm not saying you should buddy up to him, but as bearwife recommends, just focus on everybody else, have a good time in spite of attempts to bring you down, and you've nailed it.
I am one of the more spiteful and grudge-y people I know, but this has helped me lots in these situations. And if makes you feel any better, if he's as big an asshole as he sounds, others will see it soon enough.
posted by Rykey at 3:57 PM on February 11, 2011
Pull the guy aside. "You know, I heard what you said to Jane about me, that you said I looked X and Y. I really don't appreciate that you said that about me."
posted by thermonuclear.jive.turkey at 3:59 PM on February 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by thermonuclear.jive.turkey at 3:59 PM on February 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
and seeing everyone act like he's such an awesome guy
Well, he might be. We know that he is (or has been) a jerk, too, sure. But us humans, we are vast, we contain multitudes. The other people at these gatherings may not have seen the jerk side of him like you have, so their friendly interaction with this person is understandable.
And their interaction isn't wrong, either. The part of him that is tolerable company is real, just as the petty, hurtful part of him is real. Perhaps this line of thought may make it easier to swallow when the other people at the gatherings are getting along with him.
As for dealing with him--well, minimizing his footprint in your life as much as possible (that is, exactly what you're doing now) seems to me like a mighty fine approach.
posted by kprincehouse at 4:02 PM on February 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
Well, he might be. We know that he is (or has been) a jerk, too, sure. But us humans, we are vast, we contain multitudes. The other people at these gatherings may not have seen the jerk side of him like you have, so their friendly interaction with this person is understandable.
And their interaction isn't wrong, either. The part of him that is tolerable company is real, just as the petty, hurtful part of him is real. Perhaps this line of thought may make it easier to swallow when the other people at the gatherings are getting along with him.
As for dealing with him--well, minimizing his footprint in your life as much as possible (that is, exactly what you're doing now) seems to me like a mighty fine approach.
posted by kprincehouse at 4:02 PM on February 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
You make your own reality, yadda yadda. The point is, you wouldn't be hurt if you didn't have your own shame around those things. I would start there, personally.
posted by trevyn at 4:28 PM on February 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by trevyn at 4:28 PM on February 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
I actually pride myself on my ability to get along with people I can't stand. I used to work in the same room everyday with a truly nasty co-worker. It probably helped that she was universally reviled in our office, but she was in a position of power, and you had to deal with her even when she made snide (but also somewhat true) comments to your face in front of everyone in an attempt to embarrass you. Even still, sometimes she would relax and we would actually be able to make each other laugh as we got through the workday.
Don't get me wrong, she was a detestable human being, and my feelings for her did not change even if on the surface we were joking around. But still, I felt like I was winning a victory against her if I could find a way to lighten the mood and share a pleasant afternoon together, instead of letting her sourness ruin my work environment forever.
This has also worked for me in situations where I had a falling out with a former friend but continued seeing him in social settings. I remained civil, though stood up for myself if he became fighty, and we've also shared some laughs even as I thought he was an irresponsible shit. It makes me feel like the better person if I can get on and have a pleasant time without the other person's dysfunctions making a problem for me and everyone else around.
So I advise that you don't have to like this guy, but you can be pleasant around him with the knowledge that you are too good of a person to be bothered by another person's flaws and insecurities.
posted by malapropist at 4:33 PM on February 11, 2011 [14 favorites]
Don't get me wrong, she was a detestable human being, and my feelings for her did not change even if on the surface we were joking around. But still, I felt like I was winning a victory against her if I could find a way to lighten the mood and share a pleasant afternoon together, instead of letting her sourness ruin my work environment forever.
This has also worked for me in situations where I had a falling out with a former friend but continued seeing him in social settings. I remained civil, though stood up for myself if he became fighty, and we've also shared some laughs even as I thought he was an irresponsible shit. It makes me feel like the better person if I can get on and have a pleasant time without the other person's dysfunctions making a problem for me and everyone else around.
So I advise that you don't have to like this guy, but you can be pleasant around him with the knowledge that you are too good of a person to be bothered by another person's flaws and insecurities.
posted by malapropist at 4:33 PM on February 11, 2011 [14 favorites]
More Zen...well, I'll try.
I think you made a good start here by writing what you wrote. To my mind the solution is not so much about forgiving (though I agree with the sentiment) than about what wv kay in ga [now, there's a finger breaker] mentions: you need to truly understand that certain things simply have too little importance in a larger framework to be worth your thought and sorrow.
But this "truly understand" is a project, not a switch you need to find or something. It requires trying again, and failing, and not beating yourself up about failing.
So I'd first exercise feeling mindfulnessy comfortable with a combination of mixed private thoughts: "he's a jerk," "he's probably insecure," "nothing of all this really matters," "I'm hurt," "doesn't matter either." Or something similar.
Then I'd just go to the first encounter with the plan of trying to interact with the guy in a straightforward, uncomplicated way. Do not ignore him pointedly, do not try to be sweet to him if you don't feel like it, don't act as if he never said anything.
Try to interact with him, as the situation requires, with the knowledge that what he (in fact) said doesn't matter.
About failing, in this project: the worst that can happen is that your sneaky mind makes you say something quick, sarcastic and pointy to him, when you yourself are not prepared for it. That kind of stuff happens lightning fast. Be prepared for that; back to not beating yourself up. Your remark doesn't matter either, see.
Etc., rinse, repeat.
posted by Namlit at 4:45 PM on February 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
I think you made a good start here by writing what you wrote. To my mind the solution is not so much about forgiving (though I agree with the sentiment) than about what wv kay in ga [now, there's a finger breaker] mentions: you need to truly understand that certain things simply have too little importance in a larger framework to be worth your thought and sorrow.
But this "truly understand" is a project, not a switch you need to find or something. It requires trying again, and failing, and not beating yourself up about failing.
So I'd first exercise feeling mindfulnessy comfortable with a combination of mixed private thoughts: "he's a jerk," "he's probably insecure," "nothing of all this really matters," "I'm hurt," "doesn't matter either." Or something similar.
Then I'd just go to the first encounter with the plan of trying to interact with the guy in a straightforward, uncomplicated way. Do not ignore him pointedly, do not try to be sweet to him if you don't feel like it, don't act as if he never said anything.
Try to interact with him, as the situation requires, with the knowledge that what he (in fact) said doesn't matter.
About failing, in this project: the worst that can happen is that your sneaky mind makes you say something quick, sarcastic and pointy to him, when you yourself are not prepared for it. That kind of stuff happens lightning fast. Be prepared for that; back to not beating yourself up. Your remark doesn't matter either, see.
Etc., rinse, repeat.
posted by Namlit at 4:45 PM on February 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
Three questions:
1. How did you find out he said these things? Did you overhear it, did a mutual friend tell you?
2. Does he know you know?
3. Does anyone in your circle of friends know why you're not talking to him?
I totally agree about keeping your distance from people like that, but if you can't escape him completely, keep as much class and as little passive aggression and drama as you can muster. It'll probably be hard, but keep in mind that classy people are great and catty shit-stirring assholes suck, and you want to be better than him. If you can't pull off friendly and happy, shoot for lukewarm politeness. (How do you say "fuck you" in the South? "That's nice.")
I'd be tempted to take him aside and say "Listen, I learned that you called me X and Y. I don't expect an apology, and I want to keep things civil between us, but it hurt and it made me lose a lot of respect for you. I don't want to beef about it and I'm not going to badmouth you to our mutual friends, I just wanted to make sure you were aware that it got back to me." I don't know if that would escalate matters, but it would let him know that his shit-talking got out, and that you have an actual reason to be distant rather than whatever weird interpretation he'd invent for you.
Around mutual friends, I'd keep it as non-gossipy as possible. If they ask or observe something, keep the explanation brief and as unbitter as you can muster: "Oh, he said some hurtful things about me behind my back, so I don't really hang out with him. I'd rather not go into details, thanks."
One last thing: I like to think that assholes are already being punished by life somehow, so no need for me to wish any further ill on them. If someone yells at me for accidentally cutting him off, he's probably just constantly miserable since lame things like being cut off upset him so much. If someone talks trash about people for no good reason, he probably has a crummy outlook on life and trouble seeing the good in anyone or anything.
posted by Metroid Baby at 4:48 PM on February 11, 2011 [7 favorites]
1. How did you find out he said these things? Did you overhear it, did a mutual friend tell you?
2. Does he know you know?
3. Does anyone in your circle of friends know why you're not talking to him?
I totally agree about keeping your distance from people like that, but if you can't escape him completely, keep as much class and as little passive aggression and drama as you can muster. It'll probably be hard, but keep in mind that classy people are great and catty shit-stirring assholes suck, and you want to be better than him. If you can't pull off friendly and happy, shoot for lukewarm politeness. (How do you say "fuck you" in the South? "That's nice.")
I'd be tempted to take him aside and say "Listen, I learned that you called me X and Y. I don't expect an apology, and I want to keep things civil between us, but it hurt and it made me lose a lot of respect for you. I don't want to beef about it and I'm not going to badmouth you to our mutual friends, I just wanted to make sure you were aware that it got back to me." I don't know if that would escalate matters, but it would let him know that his shit-talking got out, and that you have an actual reason to be distant rather than whatever weird interpretation he'd invent for you.
Around mutual friends, I'd keep it as non-gossipy as possible. If they ask or observe something, keep the explanation brief and as unbitter as you can muster: "Oh, he said some hurtful things about me behind my back, so I don't really hang out with him. I'd rather not go into details, thanks."
One last thing: I like to think that assholes are already being punished by life somehow, so no need for me to wish any further ill on them. If someone yells at me for accidentally cutting him off, he's probably just constantly miserable since lame things like being cut off upset him so much. If someone talks trash about people for no good reason, he probably has a crummy outlook on life and trouble seeing the good in anyone or anything.
posted by Metroid Baby at 4:48 PM on February 11, 2011 [7 favorites]
Pull the guy aside. "You know, I heard what you said to Jane about me, that you said I looked X and Y. I really don't appreciate that you said that about me."
Ya know, I hate to say this, but you don't really know that this guy said these things. I know you think you do, but I don't. Having had people take me aside and accuse me of spreading nasty rumors, when it patently was not true, and then insist that they knew it was, I can tell you that on the off chance you're wrong, you're going to create a whole lot more hurt feelings and social discomfort by doing this.
For future reference, the way I avoid these kinds of situations is to stop people from telling me what they heard so-and-so say about me. When they come to me gleefully ready to dish on nasty things people are saying behind my back, I know I'm in for a lot of drama and hurt feelings that I'd rather not even know about. My policy is that people gossip, for reasons that actually have nothing to do with me even if it's about me, and if it's information that is that important for me to hear, the party in question can say it to my face.
More practically: just be polite to this person, and take them at face value.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 4:51 PM on February 11, 2011 [7 favorites]
Ya know, I hate to say this, but you don't really know that this guy said these things. I know you think you do, but I don't. Having had people take me aside and accuse me of spreading nasty rumors, when it patently was not true, and then insist that they knew it was, I can tell you that on the off chance you're wrong, you're going to create a whole lot more hurt feelings and social discomfort by doing this.
For future reference, the way I avoid these kinds of situations is to stop people from telling me what they heard so-and-so say about me. When they come to me gleefully ready to dish on nasty things people are saying behind my back, I know I'm in for a lot of drama and hurt feelings that I'd rather not even know about. My policy is that people gossip, for reasons that actually have nothing to do with me even if it's about me, and if it's information that is that important for me to hear, the party in question can say it to my face.
More practically: just be polite to this person, and take them at face value.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 4:51 PM on February 11, 2011 [7 favorites]
Ashley801, do you feel comfortable with yourself? Do you think you are attractive?
Find what you love about yourself, and emphasize it. Dress to kill when you have to meet up with this guy. Be funny, intelligent, empathetic, whatever you are best at (and be confident above all)... demonstrate to him just how shallow his judgments were.
Because they were shallow. Take it as a challenge to show this guy who you are. With luck, he may find himself feeling bad for judging you so superficially.
Good luck.
posted by torticat at 4:51 PM on February 11, 2011
Find what you love about yourself, and emphasize it. Dress to kill when you have to meet up with this guy. Be funny, intelligent, empathetic, whatever you are best at (and be confident above all)... demonstrate to him just how shallow his judgments were.
Because they were shallow. Take it as a challenge to show this guy who you are. With luck, he may find himself feeling bad for judging you so superficially.
Good luck.
posted by torticat at 4:51 PM on February 11, 2011
So, you imply that part of the problem is that what he said about your appearance is true. Would it have been better if he had said something that wasn't true?
Honestly, if I get wind of someone making fun of my fat ass(*) behind my back (heh), I laugh and say yeah, I guess my ass is big! The thing is, he/she can only hurt me if I think my big ass is somehow shameful, or my fault, or a moral failing. With that worldview, comments about my appearance cannot and do not hurt me - because my appearance does not determine my value as a person.
I would also not worry about what other people think of this guy. If he routinely says stuff like that, people will stop liking him (because everyone has aspects of their appearance they don't like and nobody wants to be made fun of). In my experience, this stuff also goes away once people hit a certain age (30 at the latest). Because then everyone realizes they don't look like the Men's Health cover, hair starts to fall out, a paunch develops, and making fun of fat asses just isn't that much fun anymore.
(*) Hypothetical example. For the record, my ass is about average. People have, however, commented on other aspects of my appearance, and this is how I dealt with it.
posted by The Toad at 4:52 PM on February 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
Honestly, if I get wind of someone making fun of my fat ass(*) behind my back (heh), I laugh and say yeah, I guess my ass is big! The thing is, he/she can only hurt me if I think my big ass is somehow shameful, or my fault, or a moral failing. With that worldview, comments about my appearance cannot and do not hurt me - because my appearance does not determine my value as a person.
I would also not worry about what other people think of this guy. If he routinely says stuff like that, people will stop liking him (because everyone has aspects of their appearance they don't like and nobody wants to be made fun of). In my experience, this stuff also goes away once people hit a certain age (30 at the latest). Because then everyone realizes they don't look like the Men's Health cover, hair starts to fall out, a paunch develops, and making fun of fat asses just isn't that much fun anymore.
(*) Hypothetical example. For the record, my ass is about average. People have, however, commented on other aspects of my appearance, and this is how I dealt with it.
posted by The Toad at 4:52 PM on February 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
Is it possible that you have ever engaged in similar behavior? I've done and said some really stupid things. I probably did and said some really stupid things today. Maybe if you can find something in yourself that you would need others to just give you a pass on as an ordinary person with occasional fuck ups, it might be possible to give him a pass for what he said?
I am really trying on this point, myself. I've done some bad things I haven't really forgiven myself for, and had some things done to me that I haven't forgiven others for. Somewhere in there has to be some letting go.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 5:06 PM on February 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
I am really trying on this point, myself. I've done some bad things I haven't really forgiven myself for, and had some things done to me that I haven't forgiven others for. Somewhere in there has to be some letting go.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 5:06 PM on February 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
Here is one way to think about him in a positive light (sorry if my English is clumsy):
"I don't know what kind of suffering made you said that thing, but whatever it is, I hope it will let you go."
posted by leigh1 at 5:22 PM on February 11, 2011 [7 favorites]
"I don't know what kind of suffering made you said that thing, but whatever it is, I hope it will let you go."
posted by leigh1 at 5:22 PM on February 11, 2011 [7 favorites]
Pull the guy aside. "You know, I heard what you said to Jane about me, that you said I looked X and Y. I really don't appreciate that you said that about me."
posted by thermonuclear.jive.turkey
"...what you said to Jane about me, that you said I looked X and Y. It's weird, I know, but that hurt me more than I would have thought it would."
If someone said that to me I would feel totally scorched and chastened, and would be less likely to do that again.
posted by StickyCarpet at 5:41 PM on February 11, 2011 [9 favorites]
posted by thermonuclear.jive.turkey
"...what you said to Jane about me, that you said I looked X and Y. It's weird, I know, but that hurt me more than I would have thought it would."
If someone said that to me I would feel totally scorched and chastened, and would be less likely to do that again.
posted by StickyCarpet at 5:41 PM on February 11, 2011 [9 favorites]
Forgive and forget. I guarantee that many other people have spoken ill of you behind your back; you just don't find out about most of them. Have you never talked shit about someone behind their back?
posted by Sternmeyer at 6:35 PM on February 11, 2011
posted by Sternmeyer at 6:35 PM on February 11, 2011
Without knowing what he said, this advice might not work for you. But every time I've heard that someone was talking shit about me behind my back, there's been one thing they have said that they meant as an insult but that I've actually taken as a compliment. Is there anything in that you can focus on? You say that the things he said were the truth--can you learn to OWN it? Turn your flaws into things you're proud of? Maybe he said you were weird...well, that's not a fault at all. That's a huge compliment! Who wants to be normal? Maybe he called you a slut. You're not a slut, you just know how to have a good time! And really, guys that call girls sluts usually are just jealous they haven't returned their affections. Maybe he said you were fat. Ok, who cares if you have a few extra pounds on you, your cleavage makes it worth it! You get my drift...
It sounds like maybe you have some self-esteem issues, which is totally normal, BUT if you use this as an opportunity to work through them, you might find that the next time someone makes you feel ashamed of some aspect of yourself, you won't care as much and it won't affect your ability to have fun with your friends.
Besides, this guy is only putting you down to feel better about himself...what's he doing talking about you anyway? Are you on his mind?
posted by katypickle at 6:56 PM on February 11, 2011
It sounds like maybe you have some self-esteem issues, which is totally normal, BUT if you use this as an opportunity to work through them, you might find that the next time someone makes you feel ashamed of some aspect of yourself, you won't care as much and it won't affect your ability to have fun with your friends.
Besides, this guy is only putting you down to feel better about himself...what's he doing talking about you anyway? Are you on his mind?
posted by katypickle at 6:56 PM on February 11, 2011
The words were likely forgotten by him as soon as they left his mouth. Why should you be the only party carrying the burden of his words?
You asked how to be more Zen about this. Well, one of my favorite zen stories is not reflective of your situation, but it is a terrific example of this kind of problem, and may promote a helpful mindset.
Dealing with this situation is probably easier if you have a large nose (I like large noses! It's not solely bad!) or similar than if you are dealing with somewhat more difficult issues: prominent scars, a lifelong medical condition, what-have-you.
In either case, I do not think confrontation is necessary or even helpful here. It may become necessary, if certain behaviors continue or become more prominent, but that's not the case from what you've said. This comment is absolutely true in that if you did not actually witness the statement firsthand, you cannot be sure that it happened.
Right now the question is not whether or not you can bury the hatchet, but whether or not there even is a hatchet in the first place. If you pursue this, you make the damage and the harm real. If you can manage to move past it, then you aren't ignoring a hurt: there is no wound.
posted by jsturgill at 7:04 PM on February 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
You asked how to be more Zen about this. Well, one of my favorite zen stories is not reflective of your situation, but it is a terrific example of this kind of problem, and may promote a helpful mindset.
Dealing with this situation is probably easier if you have a large nose (I like large noses! It's not solely bad!) or similar than if you are dealing with somewhat more difficult issues: prominent scars, a lifelong medical condition, what-have-you.
In either case, I do not think confrontation is necessary or even helpful here. It may become necessary, if certain behaviors continue or become more prominent, but that's not the case from what you've said. This comment is absolutely true in that if you did not actually witness the statement firsthand, you cannot be sure that it happened.
Right now the question is not whether or not you can bury the hatchet, but whether or not there even is a hatchet in the first place. If you pursue this, you make the damage and the harm real. If you can manage to move past it, then you aren't ignoring a hurt: there is no wound.
posted by jsturgill at 7:04 PM on February 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'd just politely ignore him. Avoid him when you can in person, but don't be conspicuously snubby about it at parties. Coolly move to another room/crowd when he comes up, don't speak to him beyond the bare social niceties, otherwise try your best not to notice him. He probably doesn't want to be around you either, so that helps.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:56 PM on February 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:56 PM on February 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
When a friend tells me something like this, I wonder... "Why the hell did someone repeat this to you? That's not what a friend does." Please think about it. The friend who ratted, are they really a good friend?
How to be more zen about it -- I'll get back to the question. I know it's really hard, even when you realize that his criticisms say more about him than about you. A similar thing happened to me, but the insult was made directly to me. I've known for years that the guy had a rudeness habit with people he works with, but it didn't help. I could hardly look at the guy the next time I was in his presence.
For me the answer is: pretend. I imagine I'm the most polished, polite person I could possibly be, for the sake of everyone else in the room. I think of the most socially adept person I know, and do what she would do. That means figuring out where the line is between a little awkward and not awkward, and then staying several steps away from it. I wouldn't give the dude a ride anywhere; I'd make excuses if he asked me a favor; if he brought up something that became a topic of general conversation, I'd join in. But I wouldn't involve myself with him beyond, "Hi, how's it going." I want to have an nice time with whoever else is there, but I'm not required to act like more of a friend than I am.
It's getting slightly easier for me, and I hope it will for you. Keep in mind the aim of contributing to a pleasant get-together. It's not a magic bullet, but it can provide you with a guiding principle.
I wouldn't recommend telling him that you're privy to his hateful comment, because that could create drama between him and the person who told you, and between you and that third person.
posted by wryly at 8:11 PM on February 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
How to be more zen about it -- I'll get back to the question. I know it's really hard, even when you realize that his criticisms say more about him than about you. A similar thing happened to me, but the insult was made directly to me. I've known for years that the guy had a rudeness habit with people he works with, but it didn't help. I could hardly look at the guy the next time I was in his presence.
For me the answer is: pretend. I imagine I'm the most polished, polite person I could possibly be, for the sake of everyone else in the room. I think of the most socially adept person I know, and do what she would do. That means figuring out where the line is between a little awkward and not awkward, and then staying several steps away from it. I wouldn't give the dude a ride anywhere; I'd make excuses if he asked me a favor; if he brought up something that became a topic of general conversation, I'd join in. But I wouldn't involve myself with him beyond, "Hi, how's it going." I want to have an nice time with whoever else is there, but I'm not required to act like more of a friend than I am.
It's getting slightly easier for me, and I hope it will for you. Keep in mind the aim of contributing to a pleasant get-together. It's not a magic bullet, but it can provide you with a guiding principle.
I wouldn't recommend telling him that you're privy to his hateful comment, because that could create drama between him and the person who told you, and between you and that third person.
posted by wryly at 8:11 PM on February 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
Don't give an acquaintance any power over where you go and how much fun you have. He was petty and tacky, but he's just an idiot.
I know it sucks to hear nasty things (especially sorta true things because they mess with your own insecurities), but he's a blip on your radar and it was frankly super shitty that someone told you. I can't think of many reasons to hurt you by first listening to him talk and not stopping him, and then running over to you to tell you about it. Unless you were about to try to get in the dude's pants, your friend should have kept his mouth freaking closed.
posted by Blisterlips at 8:22 PM on February 11, 2011
I know it sucks to hear nasty things (especially sorta true things because they mess with your own insecurities), but he's a blip on your radar and it was frankly super shitty that someone told you. I can't think of many reasons to hurt you by first listening to him talk and not stopping him, and then running over to you to tell you about it. Unless you were about to try to get in the dude's pants, your friend should have kept his mouth freaking closed.
posted by Blisterlips at 8:22 PM on February 11, 2011
Also-
I have a bit of a pig nose. When i was much younger it hurt my feelings greatly that people would notice and comment on it. I would get angry and indignant and spend way too much time trying to figure out what's wrong with that person that would make them such a douche bag...
And then it dawned on my that they don't care, it's a passing thought on their part- AND I have extremely striking eyes. And dramatic hair. I might hate my pig nose and my thick legs and my weird mole on my face- but who gives a hoot when I have other fine features.
So be zen about that. He doesn't matter at all, he's got his own problems- including being tacky. Worry about setting yourself right so the next time someone is insensitive about your "pignose" or whatever it is, you can just toss your awesome hair and forget about it.
posted by Blisterlips at 8:30 PM on February 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
I have a bit of a pig nose. When i was much younger it hurt my feelings greatly that people would notice and comment on it. I would get angry and indignant and spend way too much time trying to figure out what's wrong with that person that would make them such a douche bag...
And then it dawned on my that they don't care, it's a passing thought on their part- AND I have extremely striking eyes. And dramatic hair. I might hate my pig nose and my thick legs and my weird mole on my face- but who gives a hoot when I have other fine features.
So be zen about that. He doesn't matter at all, he's got his own problems- including being tacky. Worry about setting yourself right so the next time someone is insensitive about your "pignose" or whatever it is, you can just toss your awesome hair and forget about it.
posted by Blisterlips at 8:30 PM on February 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
I was made fun of relentlessly for my physical appearance as a child and on until young adulthood. Strangely I found that having a sense of humor about myself shut down a lot of nasty comments. Apparently showing people that you don't take yourself seriously makes them less likely to try and insult you. It also helps if your comments demonstrate that you have a wicked wit, as others may not insult you out of fear of attracting your wrath, but that's not very zen like. Having a sense of humor about myself certainly made me unlikely to be seriously hurt by the comments of others, especially if they were lame rather than funny.
I'm not sure if this is the case here, but often these kind of remarks are deeply rooted in fear/insecurity as people have noted here. I can make fun of myself because I'm confident and comfortable with who I am. That kind of attitude puts others at ease.
I would just focus on having fun yourself. You don't have to pretend he's awesome or be anything more than cordial. Forcing yourself way out of your comfort zone will only make you resent him more. Keep your attention on the things you enjoy. Radiate that kind of enjoyment and people will naturally gravitate to you.
posted by miss-lapin at 8:34 PM on February 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
I'm not sure if this is the case here, but often these kind of remarks are deeply rooted in fear/insecurity as people have noted here. I can make fun of myself because I'm confident and comfortable with who I am. That kind of attitude puts others at ease.
I would just focus on having fun yourself. You don't have to pretend he's awesome or be anything more than cordial. Forcing yourself way out of your comfort zone will only make you resent him more. Keep your attention on the things you enjoy. Radiate that kind of enjoyment and people will naturally gravitate to you.
posted by miss-lapin at 8:34 PM on February 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
So on the one hand, I think forgiveness is awesome.
On the other hand, I think the "you are training people how to behave with your responses to their behavior" thing is also awesome.
So it seems to me like letting it go but also not trusting him or getting too close to him is the middle ground there.
What did the friend who passed on the rude comments to you think of his behavior? Why did that friend think that it was such a great idea to pass on those rude comments? I'd be wary of both people myself.
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:04 PM on February 11, 2011
On the other hand, I think the "you are training people how to behave with your responses to their behavior" thing is also awesome.
So it seems to me like letting it go but also not trusting him or getting too close to him is the middle ground there.
What did the friend who passed on the rude comments to you think of his behavior? Why did that friend think that it was such a great idea to pass on those rude comments? I'd be wary of both people myself.
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:04 PM on February 11, 2011
In my experience, the thing that's worked best when I've found out someone has been talking shit about me behind my back is to (duh ... duh... DUH!) confront them directly. In general, I'm not a confrontational person so I understand your desire to avoid discord and to be all zen about it, but the fact is, you did nothing wrong. You shouldn't be skulking around in the background trying to avoid this guy. The next time you see him, take him aside (or, if he's a real asshole, speak to him in front of others) and tell him exactly what you've heard; then pause dramatically and wait for his response. If you're feeling a bit mischievous, you might even enjoy watching him squirm while he denies everything or tries to offer you a lame-assed apology. The goal is to get HIM to be unconformable around YOU since HE is the douchebag that caused the problem in the first place. If you do this right, HE will go out of his way to avoid YOU.
More times than not, I've been pleasantly surprised by the offensive person offering me an apology (or claiming they were drunk, high, fill in the blank and didn't actually mean what they'd said) and eventually, once the ickiness of the confrontation and apology have been dealt with, we've actually grown to like or --- at the very least --- tolerate each other.
Sneaks and bullies actually respect you more if you call them on their shit, rather than acting all mealy-mouthed, letting it slide, or acting scared and trying to reason with them or dance around the issue. Practice what you want to say and then confront him. Once you have it out, the burden of trying to act cool around someone you dislike will be magically shifted from your shoulders to his -- and lemme tell ya, that feels fucking awesome!
posted by LuckySeven~ at 11:26 PM on February 11, 2011 [4 favorites]
More times than not, I've been pleasantly surprised by the offensive person offering me an apology (or claiming they were drunk, high, fill in the blank and didn't actually mean what they'd said) and eventually, once the ickiness of the confrontation and apology have been dealt with, we've actually grown to like or --- at the very least --- tolerate each other.
Sneaks and bullies actually respect you more if you call them on their shit, rather than acting all mealy-mouthed, letting it slide, or acting scared and trying to reason with them or dance around the issue. Practice what you want to say and then confront him. Once you have it out, the burden of trying to act cool around someone you dislike will be magically shifted from your shoulders to his -- and lemme tell ya, that feels fucking awesome!
posted by LuckySeven~ at 11:26 PM on February 11, 2011 [4 favorites]
“The only thing worse than being talked about is ...
not being talked about”
doesn't sound like the zen-est of statements, but it's helped me to shrug off stupid things people say about me. I guess the unpleasant truth is that we all talk shit about other people at various times, when we are too vain to have empathy and thoughts of personal consequences.
In your hurt, the zen takeaway might be to reflect on the way in which the gift of this situation is that you will be careful and gracious in your communications about others. We can all afford lessons in empathy. Here's yours: and hey, lucky you, from someone who is actually pretty removed from you in social terms. It's not your family or close friends or lover, for example. The zen gods have been kind in this manner.
So. Assume that this person made an immature mistake, that like all of us, he has a zen journey of his own towards self-knowledge and respect. Be with him as you would be with other friends. Don't be someone you're not, don't bend over backwards seeking approval, just be yourself, being with your friends as a calm, loving adult. You are serenely taking up the challenge to be wise, kind and generous with all.
Your comments here on Metafilter with us complete strangers show you to be just that person. You are great, Ashley801. And he's going to have the opportunity to realise that, when he spends more time with you.
I really don't think you should bring this up in a serious conversation at all. If it comes up some months or years in the future, I am sure that it will be in a situation that will be more positive overall. People grow and change, and that is a journey you might well witness with this person.
posted by honey-barbara at 5:05 AM on February 12, 2011
not being talked about”
doesn't sound like the zen-est of statements, but it's helped me to shrug off stupid things people say about me. I guess the unpleasant truth is that we all talk shit about other people at various times, when we are too vain to have empathy and thoughts of personal consequences.
In your hurt, the zen takeaway might be to reflect on the way in which the gift of this situation is that you will be careful and gracious in your communications about others. We can all afford lessons in empathy. Here's yours: and hey, lucky you, from someone who is actually pretty removed from you in social terms. It's not your family or close friends or lover, for example. The zen gods have been kind in this manner.
So. Assume that this person made an immature mistake, that like all of us, he has a zen journey of his own towards self-knowledge and respect. Be with him as you would be with other friends. Don't be someone you're not, don't bend over backwards seeking approval, just be yourself, being with your friends as a calm, loving adult. You are serenely taking up the challenge to be wise, kind and generous with all.
Your comments here on Metafilter with us complete strangers show you to be just that person. You are great, Ashley801. And he's going to have the opportunity to realise that, when he spends more time with you.
I really don't think you should bring this up in a serious conversation at all. If it comes up some months or years in the future, I am sure that it will be in a situation that will be more positive overall. People grow and change, and that is a journey you might well witness with this person.
posted by honey-barbara at 5:05 AM on February 12, 2011
This conflict exists only in your mind. It is a product of your ego getting in the way of your happiness. You can't control what other people do, you can only control how you interpret those things. When someone says hurtful things and you allow yourself to be hurt, they win. When some irrelevant moron tries to hurt you with his words, you can laugh off the attempt. What is the difference? Only what you believe.
Alternate theory: you aren't mad at him at all, you are mad yourself because of the truth in the things he said. If it is something you can change, change it. If it is something you can't change or won't change, accept that about yourself.
posted by gjc at 8:46 AM on February 12, 2011
Alternate theory: you aren't mad at him at all, you are mad yourself because of the truth in the things he said. If it is something you can change, change it. If it is something you can't change or won't change, accept that about yourself.
posted by gjc at 8:46 AM on February 12, 2011
I'm not sure I entirely agree with everyone bringing up self-esteem. The point, to me anyway, is not that this guy happened to tell someone matter-of-factly that he thinks Ashley801 is unattractive or whatever. It's the fact that he said very nasty things, to entertain someone else. Ashley801 could be the world's most confident supermodel, and she still would have learned something about this guy's personality that would make her not want to hang out with him. I do agree that being happy with yourself will make you less bothered by what other people think of you. But it seems to me that the main problem in this situation is that she's learned her "friend" is kind of an ass, but has to hang out with him anyway.
posted by DestinationUnknown at 9:37 AM on February 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by DestinationUnknown at 9:37 AM on February 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
I like what katypickle said above. More regarding self-esteem than socially interacting with this awful fellow, I love Lore's quote "I'm somebody's fetish". No matter how ______ (fat, big-nosed, short, thick-armed, freckly, small-chested, what have you) you feel insecure about, there are statistically many people out there to whom you would be their highest fantasy.
And what is that other one? It's somewhat trite, but it goes somewhat like "Everybody has a secret that would break your heart if you knew what it was". This guy wouldn't need to say nasty things about you to entertain someone if he didn't carry insecurities himself.
posted by amicamentis at 3:59 PM on February 12, 2011
And what is that other one? It's somewhat trite, but it goes somewhat like "Everybody has a secret that would break your heart if you knew what it was". This guy wouldn't need to say nasty things about you to entertain someone if he didn't carry insecurities himself.
posted by amicamentis at 3:59 PM on February 12, 2011
You are not in charge of him. He is perfectly free to say whatever he chooses to say. It's not really worth your notice. You might want to make a note that he and the 'friend' who repeated this to you are not people you can totally trust.
Eleanor Roosevelt said, "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent," and the wonderfully helpful, "Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people." Notice what people talk about.
Not a single one of the awesome people in my life today is there because of my appearance. Anyone who sees only your looks, will surely lose interest one day. It's a stupid game, critiquing people's looks.
Decide for yourself who you are and bring what you have to bring to every gathering you attend. Those are things you are in charge of. Don't diminish yourself because of something he said. He is not in charge of you.
posted by Anitanola at 4:02 PM on February 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
Eleanor Roosevelt said, "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent," and the wonderfully helpful, "Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people." Notice what people talk about.
Not a single one of the awesome people in my life today is there because of my appearance. Anyone who sees only your looks, will surely lose interest one day. It's a stupid game, critiquing people's looks.
Decide for yourself who you are and bring what you have to bring to every gathering you attend. Those are things you are in charge of. Don't diminish yourself because of something he said. He is not in charge of you.
posted by Anitanola at 4:02 PM on February 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
I have several people like this in my life. When I easily can I avoid them. When I can't I just ignore the fact that I dislike them and I try to act polite and friendly and focus on the more rewarding things around me.
I think of the feelings I have about them as a tax. If I pay to much too attention to them then I am paying too much tax. If I worry about them then I pay too much tax. If I actively avoid them to the extent that my life is reduced then I am paying too much tax. But no matter how you try in life you will always have to pay some tax. So pay it and get it over with. Spending your life trying to figure out how to dodge the tax and devoting too much attention to the tax you are paying only means you are paying an even more pointless meta-tax.
It's like when you are kid and you let the vegetables ruin your entire meal because you spend the whole time pushing them around your plate while everything else gets cold. Just eat the damn things and move on to the wonders of meat and dessert!
posted by srboisvert at 9:08 AM on February 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
I think of the feelings I have about them as a tax. If I pay to much too attention to them then I am paying too much tax. If I worry about them then I pay too much tax. If I actively avoid them to the extent that my life is reduced then I am paying too much tax. But no matter how you try in life you will always have to pay some tax. So pay it and get it over with. Spending your life trying to figure out how to dodge the tax and devoting too much attention to the tax you are paying only means you are paying an even more pointless meta-tax.
It's like when you are kid and you let the vegetables ruin your entire meal because you spend the whole time pushing them around your plate while everything else gets cold. Just eat the damn things and move on to the wonders of meat and dessert!
posted by srboisvert at 9:08 AM on February 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Words fail me, guys. It's easy to forget how much threads like this help until I have to make one myself. Thank you to all of you. Each and every answer makes me feel that much better, and I've read them all multiple times.
To answer of few of the questions people asked: the guy doesn't know at all that I'm aware of his comments, and I only told one person, myself - just seemed like a waste of my time to engage with it more than that, and I didn't want to sow discord. Yes, I did think it hurt more because it was kind of true, but as DestinationUnknown says, aside from my own hurt feelings, knowing he'd do something like that at all, towards anyone, created a lot of the aversion. As far as whether or not he's known for making these kinds of comments, while he does have a caricaturish "overly critical, cranky European" shtik going, I'd never heard any comments about people - just things like, "this wine is shit and only fit for washing windows" etc.
Anyway, thank you guys again. I feel monumentally more prepared for this with 37 more tools in my toolkit.
posted by Ashley801 at 3:43 PM on February 15, 2011 [2 favorites]
To answer of few of the questions people asked: the guy doesn't know at all that I'm aware of his comments, and I only told one person, myself - just seemed like a waste of my time to engage with it more than that, and I didn't want to sow discord. Yes, I did think it hurt more because it was kind of true, but as DestinationUnknown says, aside from my own hurt feelings, knowing he'd do something like that at all, towards anyone, created a lot of the aversion. As far as whether or not he's known for making these kinds of comments, while he does have a caricaturish "overly critical, cranky European" shtik going, I'd never heard any comments about people - just things like, "this wine is shit and only fit for washing windows" etc.
Anyway, thank you guys again. I feel monumentally more prepared for this with 37 more tools in my toolkit.
posted by Ashley801 at 3:43 PM on February 15, 2011 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Eventually I think I'd get over my hurt and anger and instead feel more sympathy toward him, poor asshole who has to drag others down to make themselves feel better.
posted by tristeza at 3:25 PM on February 11, 2011 [3 favorites]