Should I consider a Christian preschool for my kid when I am a non-believer?
February 10, 2011 7:35 AM Subscribe
Religious preschool options. We are not religious. Am I overthinking this?
We're starting to look into 2 or 3 morning a week preschool options for our 2 year old (who will be nearly 3 when he starts.) Our neighborhood has ~5 options and uses a lottery system. Obviously our best bet would be to apply to all of them and see how things shake out.
As I began preparing the applications and scheduling open house visits, I found that one school had a Christian bent. [How Christian? Read this and this. They say that they welcome non-Christians though.] We are not Christian. I don't even like Christmas-y stuff around my kid. The thought of him saying a prayer over his food gives me the heebee-jeebees. (I know that it would be an opportunity to explain that some people believe some things and others believe other things, but...)
My co-workers think that I am being overly sensitive and that I should tour the place just in case it seems like a nice environment.
So, MeFites of an atheist/agnostic bent -- has anyone done a religious preschool? What were your experiences?
We're starting to look into 2 or 3 morning a week preschool options for our 2 year old (who will be nearly 3 when he starts.) Our neighborhood has ~5 options and uses a lottery system. Obviously our best bet would be to apply to all of them and see how things shake out.
As I began preparing the applications and scheduling open house visits, I found that one school had a Christian bent. [How Christian? Read this and this. They say that they welcome non-Christians though.] We are not Christian. I don't even like Christmas-y stuff around my kid. The thought of him saying a prayer over his food gives me the heebee-jeebees. (I know that it would be an opportunity to explain that some people believe some things and others believe other things, but...)
My co-workers think that I am being overly sensitive and that I should tour the place just in case it seems like a nice environment.
So, MeFites of an atheist/agnostic bent -- has anyone done a religious preschool? What were your experiences?
I wouldn't. Your kids are absorbing all the rules about how the world works right now, and a religious preschool will build religion into their worldview.
posted by L'Estrange Fruit at 7:45 AM on February 10, 2011 [8 favorites]
posted by L'Estrange Fruit at 7:45 AM on February 10, 2011 [8 favorites]
Anecdata: My very atheist parents sent me to a church-run pre-school. I think we said prayers before snack time, but to be honest, I was four. I don't have any specific memories of religious instruction besides the time I was made to stand in the corner for accidentally mixing up who was weak and who was strong in the last line of "Jesus Loves Me."
My dad laughed for days when he heard, and I like to think that has something to do with my current irreligiousness.
posted by joyceanmachine at 7:47 AM on February 10, 2011 [4 favorites]
My dad laughed for days when he heard, and I like to think that has something to do with my current irreligiousness.
posted by joyceanmachine at 7:47 AM on February 10, 2011 [4 favorites]
IANAA/A. We send our daughter to a Presbyterian preschool in the South. We are Portestant, but not Presbyterian. My mother was the director of a church preschool for 15 years, and I know they did not have any specific religious stuff in the curricula beyond a general happy love forgiveness vibe. So, when we sent our daughter to Church preschool, we figured it would be nominally Christian, and try to reinforce Judeo-Christian values in a very generic way. But no. After one week she comes home and chastises us for not saying a blessing before we eat dinner and runs around the house singing "God, our Father..." to the tune of Frere Jacques. But we're Christian, and aside from the gross patriarchal language, aren't too bothered by this. YMMV. I honestly think that it really depends on the church / school.
posted by reverend cuttle at 7:47 AM on February 10, 2011
posted by reverend cuttle at 7:47 AM on February 10, 2011
I wouldn't. It's a very, very impressionable age. A 3-year-old won't be ready to take that with a grain of salt and learn about different beliefs without being confused.
As exhibit A, I present to you my daughter, who when turning 3 years old had a series of panicky tantrums at the idea of her daddy eating pink cupcakes at her birthday party, because she had internalized the idea that pink is only for girls and not for boys.
posted by Andrhia at 7:50 AM on February 10, 2011
As exhibit A, I present to you my daughter, who when turning 3 years old had a series of panicky tantrums at the idea of her daddy eating pink cupcakes at her birthday party, because she had internalized the idea that pink is only for girls and not for boys.
posted by Andrhia at 7:50 AM on February 10, 2011
Anecdata, I (nowadays strongly atheist and raised in a generally secular household) went to a preschool run by a church. However, I don't really remember any particularly religious teaching other than a nativity thing at Christmas, reading a Bible story picture book now and then, and maybe saying grace before meals. It didn't affect me any more than the other religious interactions inherent in growing up in a majority-Christian community. It does sound like the school you mention has much more overt religious teachings.
It sounds to me like the things this preschool would be focusing on are way outside of your comfort zone, judging by their webpages, so if it's an option I would take your child somewhere else.
posted by Gordafarin at 7:50 AM on February 10, 2011
It sounds to me like the things this preschool would be focusing on are way outside of your comfort zone, judging by their webpages, so if it's an option I would take your child somewhere else.
posted by Gordafarin at 7:50 AM on February 10, 2011
I come from a very agnostic/atheist family and ended up in a Catholic school for some early years, and I wanted to come in here and say 'It's okay, he won't catch Christian or anything,' but I noticed, in the link,
We talk about the fact that God made this world and each of us
...and I don't know. I know that when my 3.5yo hears something that is not true, I have a great deal of difficulty correcting it if the misinformation came from a normally trusted source. I do not think I would enjoy regularly having to lay out how the nice preschool lady, who we otherwise really like, is totally wrong. Your kid may vary, but mine will also return back to the source of the misinformation and attempt to correct the misinformer in polite but plain terms.
I think I would skip it because what I would be looking for in preschool would be (1) friends, (2) some gentle learning, and this would interfere with both of those. Misinformation, having to explain that somebody we liked was the source of this repeated misinformation -- rather difficult.
posted by kmennie at 7:53 AM on February 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
We talk about the fact that God made this world and each of us
...and I don't know. I know that when my 3.5yo hears something that is not true, I have a great deal of difficulty correcting it if the misinformation came from a normally trusted source. I do not think I would enjoy regularly having to lay out how the nice preschool lady, who we otherwise really like, is totally wrong. Your kid may vary, but mine will also return back to the source of the misinformation and attempt to correct the misinformer in polite but plain terms.
I think I would skip it because what I would be looking for in preschool would be (1) friends, (2) some gentle learning, and this would interfere with both of those. Misinformation, having to explain that somebody we liked was the source of this repeated misinformation -- rather difficult.
posted by kmennie at 7:53 AM on February 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
We are agnostics, but my daughter went to preschool in a synagogue when she was 4 and it was a wonderful experience. I did check with the school to see if it was OK that she not have the other kids' background. They welcomed her warmly and she had a ball participating in all the holidays and traditions. (Who knew the girl would love gefilte fish?!) I wouldn't say it caused her any confusion. There might be a distinction here from your prospective situation in that you might face a little evangelism, whereas we did not.
posted by lakeroon at 7:54 AM on February 10, 2011
posted by lakeroon at 7:54 AM on February 10, 2011
I am of an atheist bent and those pages (specifically the second one) gave me serious heebie-jeebies. I don't like this in particular: As we train the children in how to helpfully live with each other (and with those in authority over them) they will hear things such as, "God calls us to be kind to our friends", "God wants us to share the good things we have", and "God calls us to obey all the way, right away, with a happy heart", etc. though I can't really articulate why. It just makes me really, really uncomfortable. I think it's the "with those in authority over them" and the "obey all the way, right away, with a happy heart." Makes me feel squicky.
posted by cooker girl at 7:55 AM on February 10, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by cooker girl at 7:55 AM on February 10, 2011 [3 favorites]
Just as a data point, I'm a Christian and I crossed faith-based preschools off my list when looking at schools for my four year old. Even though I take her to church, and to Sunday School. I go to a sooper progressive, liberal church, and that's the most religious exposure I'm comfortable with in someone who's below the age of reason.
posted by KathrynT at 8:02 AM on February 10, 2011
posted by KathrynT at 8:02 AM on February 10, 2011
I'm an atheist and, based on the site, I wouldn't let any kid of mine anywhere near there.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 8:02 AM on February 10, 2011
posted by Admiral Haddock at 8:02 AM on February 10, 2011
We are not Christian. I don't even like Christmas-y stuff around my kid. The thought of him saying a prayer over his food gives me the heebee-jeebees.
Our almost three-year-old is not in a religious preschool, but a Spanish immersion one. (Which he loves, and we love.) He comes home and sings songs that he learned in preschool. I'm perfectly happy to hear him sing about "La vaca Lola" or "Los pollitos dicen pio pio pio." He's picking up exactly what we wanted him to learn when he sings those songs.
If you would not be happy to have your son come home singing "Jesus loves the little children" then if I were you, I would take a pass.
posted by ambrosia at 8:05 AM on February 10, 2011 [3 favorites]
Our almost three-year-old is not in a religious preschool, but a Spanish immersion one. (Which he loves, and we love.) He comes home and sings songs that he learned in preschool. I'm perfectly happy to hear him sing about "La vaca Lola" or "Los pollitos dicen pio pio pio." He's picking up exactly what we wanted him to learn when he sings those songs.
If you would not be happy to have your son come home singing "Jesus loves the little children" then if I were you, I would take a pass.
posted by ambrosia at 8:05 AM on February 10, 2011 [3 favorites]
I went to a preschool where they made each kid take turns saying grace over snack. (I don't know if there was anything else religious about the preschool; I don't remember anything else.) I do remember that I had no idea how to say grace and I worried about what would happen when it was my turn. I didn't think that it was normal or something one would need to do in life just because they did it there; I just thought I was going to get in trouble for doing it wrong.
I didn't go there very long. I think my parents may have decided that it wasn't a good place for their kids and pulled me out. I wasn't privy to the discussion. It doesn't seem like something that would be enjoyable for the parents, though: to learn that they'd made a mistake, then put in all the effort of taking the kid out and moving to anew preschool, possibly losing deposits etc.
posted by galadriel at 8:08 AM on February 10, 2011
I didn't go there very long. I think my parents may have decided that it wasn't a good place for their kids and pulled me out. I wasn't privy to the discussion. It doesn't seem like something that would be enjoyable for the parents, though: to learn that they'd made a mistake, then put in all the effort of taking the kid out and moving to anew preschool, possibly losing deposits etc.
posted by galadriel at 8:08 AM on February 10, 2011
I think it would be unfair and confusing to your child if you express disapproval for everyday activities at preschool (Bible stories, crafts and kiddie songs with religious themes, maybe even grace before meals). There's a time for kids to learn how to be the dissenter in a group, but age three is not it. You seem to feel strongly about this, so if I were you, I'd leave this school off the list.
posted by philokalia at 8:10 AM on February 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by philokalia at 8:10 AM on February 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
My father was an atheist and my mother is agnostic but the Baptist preschool down the street had great prices. I vaguely remember taking part in a nativity/Christmas pageant. That's the only religiousness I remember. And I grew up atheist. If I had kids I probably wouldn't hesitate to send them to a religious preschool (or to Catholic school, for that matter).
posted by elsietheeel at 8:11 AM on February 10, 2011
posted by elsietheeel at 8:11 AM on February 10, 2011
As an Atheist who went to a very mild Episcopal elementary school (weekly Mass, but no actual religious instruction), I think a -based preschool/elementary school can be fine, but this school sounds a bit more religious than I would be comfortable with. I would probably go ahead and take to tour, to see if the website matched the actual environment, but I don't think I'd be sending my child there if the religious element was as pervasive in the classroom as the website suggests.
posted by Rock Steady at 8:13 AM on February 10, 2011
posted by Rock Steady at 8:13 AM on February 10, 2011
Have you asked about what your role at the school would be? On top of the above, I would be concerned that on your volunteer days, you would be in charge of leading grace and Jesus Loves Me. That might make me just as uncomfortable as having my kid learn the words.
posted by freshwater at 8:16 AM on February 10, 2011
posted by freshwater at 8:16 AM on February 10, 2011
They spell it out pretty clearly on the website. God and biblical teaching appear to be a large part of their behavioural instruction. At 3, behavioural instruction is one of the main reason children are in preschool - to learn to share and work well with others, stand in line, follow rules etc. If you dont' want your child to be taught to behave because God says so, maybe not the best fit. Personally, I wouldn't go into a preschool situation where i could already see conflict looming on the horizon. 3 is pretty young to internalize these teachings, but your child wouldn't be the first to repeat something learned at school and come home expecting you to lead a prayer over a meal and not understand why you don't want to.
Schedule your visit and check them out. Maybe the website exaggerates the emphasis on God and what he calls individuals to do.
posted by domino at 8:19 AM on February 10, 2011
Schedule your visit and check them out. Maybe the website exaggerates the emphasis on God and what he calls individuals to do.
posted by domino at 8:19 AM on February 10, 2011
As the daughter of a lapsed Jewish father and an atheist mother I went to a Catholic school for a year when I was 5, and then to public schools in a very Catholic country. I learned, among other scary things, that I'd be struck dead by lightning if I ever dared try to take communion. It all contributed to turning me into a lifelong rebel, but I wouldn't wish that kind of immersion in religion on any child.
Whether a school is religious or not it is going to teach your child values. Find one with values similar to your own. You might want to make a list of the values you want to instill and check it against the values any school purports to teach.
posted by mareli at 8:24 AM on February 10, 2011
Whether a school is religious or not it is going to teach your child values. Find one with values similar to your own. You might want to make a list of the values you want to instill and check it against the values any school purports to teach.
posted by mareli at 8:24 AM on February 10, 2011
Since it's a co-operative, perhaps you should look into the religious leanings of the other parents -specifically to see if they belong to quite liberal denominations or are more fundamentalist. Do the other parents believe in spanking kids? What's the preschool's form of discipline? How would the preschool deal with you being uncomfortable with another parent or staff member proselytizing your kid (i.e. You are a sinner, but Jesus can save you!)? How does the preschool deal with theological differences between families? If your child doesn't want to pray, will he be in trouble?
And, for the record, "obey all the way, right away, with a happy heart" raises red flags with me as it seems all too similar to Christian child disciplining books such as Shepherding a Child's Heart and Dare to Discipline, which place an awful lot of emphasis on being 'sweet' and 'obeying happily'. Perhaps you could ask the preschool if they recommend parenting books to see if you're comfortable with their underlying philosophies?
posted by brambory at 8:25 AM on February 10, 2011
And, for the record, "obey all the way, right away, with a happy heart" raises red flags with me as it seems all too similar to Christian child disciplining books such as Shepherding a Child's Heart and Dare to Discipline, which place an awful lot of emphasis on being 'sweet' and 'obeying happily'. Perhaps you could ask the preschool if they recommend parenting books to see if you're comfortable with their underlying philosophies?
posted by brambory at 8:25 AM on February 10, 2011
It's worth noting that the school shares space with the Washington Community Fellowship, a pretty theologically conservative evangelical Church. When we say "faith-based" here, we're not talking UCC (but we're also not talking Capitol Hill Baptist.)
One question you'll want to ask is how many of the parents are members of the Church.
posted by Jahaza at 8:27 AM on February 10, 2011
One question you'll want to ask is how many of the parents are members of the Church.
posted by Jahaza at 8:27 AM on February 10, 2011
I'm from a Jewish family but I went to an Episcopalian school from nursery school all the way up through high school. I came to this thread expecting to tell you to relax and not to worry -- I really benefited from the exposure to another culture, and even at a young age, I could understand that different people believed different things.
But then I read the pages you linked to, and the same phrases that bugged Cooker Girl bugged me: As we train the children in how to helpfully live with each other (and with those in authority over them) they will hear things such as, "God calls us to be kind to our friends", "God wants us to share the good things we have", and "God calls us to obey all the way, right away, with a happy heart", etc.
At the school I attended, the explicit Christian message was somewhat compartmentalized. We had to attend chapel twice a week, and we had to take occasional classes on religion. But most of the time, it was just a regular school. When if we did something wrong -- if we hit another kid, or cheated, or whatever -- we weren't told it was wrong because God forbids it. We were just told that it was wrong, period.
And this, I think, is the important distinction. The message I got from my teachers was, "Praying in a certain way is what Christians have to do. But being a good person is what EVERYBODY has to do." As a result, I had no problem discarding the theology specifics while retaining the morality.
By contrast, if you send your kids to this school, it sounds as though they are going to be taught that they have to be nice because God wants them to be nice. That seems like it's going to be much thornier to untangle.
posted by yankeefog at 8:30 AM on February 10, 2011 [3 favorites]
But then I read the pages you linked to, and the same phrases that bugged Cooker Girl bugged me: As we train the children in how to helpfully live with each other (and with those in authority over them) they will hear things such as, "God calls us to be kind to our friends", "God wants us to share the good things we have", and "God calls us to obey all the way, right away, with a happy heart", etc.
At the school I attended, the explicit Christian message was somewhat compartmentalized. We had to attend chapel twice a week, and we had to take occasional classes on religion. But most of the time, it was just a regular school. When if we did something wrong -- if we hit another kid, or cheated, or whatever -- we weren't told it was wrong because God forbids it. We were just told that it was wrong, period.
And this, I think, is the important distinction. The message I got from my teachers was, "Praying in a certain way is what Christians have to do. But being a good person is what EVERYBODY has to do." As a result, I had no problem discarding the theology specifics while retaining the morality.
By contrast, if you send your kids to this school, it sounds as though they are going to be taught that they have to be nice because God wants them to be nice. That seems like it's going to be much thornier to untangle.
posted by yankeefog at 8:30 AM on February 10, 2011 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Okay. Thanks all. We're not applying.
There are 4 other options, so hopefully we'll luck out with one of them.
posted by k8t at 8:32 AM on February 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
There are 4 other options, so hopefully we'll luck out with one of them.
posted by k8t at 8:32 AM on February 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
My sibling went to religious preschool as it was far cheaper than the standard option. Sibling is 150% atheist. Honestly, it's only Play-doh and singing songs - they don't go and stone a cage of gay men at 3pm or anything.
posted by theraflu at 8:32 AM on February 10, 2011
posted by theraflu at 8:32 AM on February 10, 2011
I am a Christian, and my daughter now attends a Lutheran daycare, and came in here to say "don't worry, there are lots of non-christians, and really there is only 15 minutes a day of "jesus time" which is really just a story", but even I wouldn't send my kid to a school that teaches this:
As we train the children in how to helpfully live with each other (and with those in authority over them) they will hear things such as, "God calls us to be kind to our friends", "God wants us to share the good things we have", and "God calls us to obey all the way, right away, with a happy heart", etc.
That is creepy.
(on preview way later: what yankeefog said)
posted by dpx.mfx at 8:49 AM on February 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
As we train the children in how to helpfully live with each other (and with those in authority over them) they will hear things such as, "God calls us to be kind to our friends", "God wants us to share the good things we have", and "God calls us to obey all the way, right away, with a happy heart", etc.
That is creepy.
(on preview way later: what yankeefog said)
posted by dpx.mfx at 8:49 AM on February 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
I was an Episcopalian kid in Catholic school in the '80s. Screw parents and teachers-- my *classmates* were only too happy to tell me I was going to hell for not being Catholic. That started early-- first grade-- and didn't taper off until junior high. Kids will judge based on shit their parents say in the home, no doubt.
The emphasis on authority on their site makes me twitch. I know fundamentalist parents trying to set up authoritarian parenting techniques in the home and it's just flat ugly. Your kid might be directly exposed to that from teaching... or, worse, indirectly through other kids asking why Mommy gets to tell Daddy what to do when everyone knows that's bad.
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 9:03 AM on February 10, 2011
The emphasis on authority on their site makes me twitch. I know fundamentalist parents trying to set up authoritarian parenting techniques in the home and it's just flat ugly. Your kid might be directly exposed to that from teaching... or, worse, indirectly through other kids asking why Mommy gets to tell Daddy what to do when everyone knows that's bad.
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 9:03 AM on February 10, 2011
I'm Christian and I wouldn't let my kids near that place.
Here's an anecdote for you:
Last school year there was a presentation at my daughter's school. A charity that normally donates socks and gloves to the school asked if that year the school would help with a charity project they did where each class would put together boxes of toys and presents that would be given to a third world child. Sounds great right?
I happened to be at the presentation because it was during an award assembly where my daughter was getting an attendance award. The charity group showed a video that can only be described as disturbing. Picture one of those Children's Charity Commercials only longer and slightly dumbed down. I was shaking with rage. Lucky for me I stayed in my seat. After the video the representative stood up and basically told the kids (all Kindergarten to Third Graders) that since Jesus had given his life for us, a gift that we couldn't hope to ever pay back, they needed to fill these boxes for the poor kids in other countries.
I was livid. I had the good sense to wait until after school and ask my daughter what she thought about the presentation. She immediately burst into tears. She thought Jesus was mad at her because she hadn't already been helping the kids. She thought she needed to give up all her toys because these other kids didn't have anything. She told me all this before she even knew I was upset about the whole thing.
Of course I explained to her that this wasn't true at all, I explained what her dad and I believe about Jesus and calmed her down. Then I had a nice long chat with the Principal.
tl;dr
Don't let strangers teach your kids about God. At best the strangers don't know what your kids can handle. At worst you'll find your kid indoctrinated with some strange fiction that you have to unravel.
posted by TooFewShoes at 9:07 AM on February 10, 2011
Here's an anecdote for you:
Last school year there was a presentation at my daughter's school. A charity that normally donates socks and gloves to the school asked if that year the school would help with a charity project they did where each class would put together boxes of toys and presents that would be given to a third world child. Sounds great right?
I happened to be at the presentation because it was during an award assembly where my daughter was getting an attendance award. The charity group showed a video that can only be described as disturbing. Picture one of those Children's Charity Commercials only longer and slightly dumbed down. I was shaking with rage. Lucky for me I stayed in my seat. After the video the representative stood up and basically told the kids (all Kindergarten to Third Graders) that since Jesus had given his life for us, a gift that we couldn't hope to ever pay back, they needed to fill these boxes for the poor kids in other countries.
I was livid. I had the good sense to wait until after school and ask my daughter what she thought about the presentation. She immediately burst into tears. She thought Jesus was mad at her because she hadn't already been helping the kids. She thought she needed to give up all her toys because these other kids didn't have anything. She told me all this before she even knew I was upset about the whole thing.
Of course I explained to her that this wasn't true at all, I explained what her dad and I believe about Jesus and calmed her down. Then I had a nice long chat with the Principal.
tl;dr
Don't let strangers teach your kids about God. At best the strangers don't know what your kids can handle. At worst you'll find your kid indoctrinated with some strange fiction that you have to unravel.
posted by TooFewShoes at 9:07 AM on February 10, 2011
"God calls us to obey all the way, right away, with a happy heart"
I know I'm another voice in the choir (hah!), and you've already made your decision, but, I wouldn't send my children to ANY school which declared that it was going to teach them to obey without thinking.
I think a certain amount of cross-cultural experience can be good for kids growing up in a pluralistic society, but I don' think this is it.
posted by endless_forms at 9:12 AM on February 10, 2011
I know I'm another voice in the choir (hah!), and you've already made your decision, but, I wouldn't send my children to ANY school which declared that it was going to teach them to obey without thinking.
I think a certain amount of cross-cultural experience can be good for kids growing up in a pluralistic society, but I don' think this is it.
posted by endless_forms at 9:12 AM on February 10, 2011
I'm a Jew and the first pre-school I attended was a Christian one. I think I went there because it was rated highly and it was convenient. I remember nothing about it. There is, however, a piece of cardboard with a zipper glued to it in a vertical position, connecting a baby picture of me at the bottom with a toddler picture of me at the top, and the heading "Jesus grew as Laura grows." Just for that artifact, it was worth it. Next year, we moved and I went to the JCC and don't remember much about that either.
Then again, I don't think the one I attended was as Christian-oriented as the one at the end of the link.
posted by millipede at 9:38 AM on February 10, 2011
Then again, I don't think the one I attended was as Christian-oriented as the one at the end of the link.
posted by millipede at 9:38 AM on February 10, 2011
I grew up Protestant in a very predominantly Catholic part of the US, in an area where parochial schooling is heavily entrenched. I attended an Episcopal elementary school, but most of my classmates were Catholic or Baptist (or other religions, or not religious at all). Nobody got indoctrinated. We had "chapel" once a week where we talked about how god loves everyone and it's important to be good to other people.
My town didn't have an Episcopal high school, so for three years I attended the local Catholic high school. By the time I was a teenager this stuff was a much bigger deal than it would be for a toddler, but then also by that time I was more aware of the complexities of all this stuff - what my own beliefs were, what my family believed, what the significance of all this was in the wider world. In that situation there was a degree of what I felt at the time was indoctrination, but it was counteracted by the fact that teenagers are emotionally mature enough to figure this stuff out for ourselves. I don't remember anybody converting to Catholicism because of their time spent at that school. Especially if their family was Jewish or atheist or something; the messages you get from your immediate family are much more powerful than what some nun at school says.
If you are not comfortable with the idea of your child knowing that religion exists, or ever hearing about Jesus, church, etc, it might be better for your peace of mind to have the kid in a secular school. But I don't think it's going to damage your child or lay the groundwork for him or her to become religious later in life.
posted by Sara C. at 10:08 AM on February 10, 2011
My town didn't have an Episcopal high school, so for three years I attended the local Catholic high school. By the time I was a teenager this stuff was a much bigger deal than it would be for a toddler, but then also by that time I was more aware of the complexities of all this stuff - what my own beliefs were, what my family believed, what the significance of all this was in the wider world. In that situation there was a degree of what I felt at the time was indoctrination, but it was counteracted by the fact that teenagers are emotionally mature enough to figure this stuff out for ourselves. I don't remember anybody converting to Catholicism because of their time spent at that school. Especially if their family was Jewish or atheist or something; the messages you get from your immediate family are much more powerful than what some nun at school says.
If you are not comfortable with the idea of your child knowing that religion exists, or ever hearing about Jesus, church, etc, it might be better for your peace of mind to have the kid in a secular school. But I don't think it's going to damage your child or lay the groundwork for him or her to become religious later in life.
posted by Sara C. at 10:08 AM on February 10, 2011
Oh and for what it's worth, despite a career in Christian parochial schools spanning from 3-16, I am now a very skeptical agnostic.
posted by Sara C. at 10:10 AM on February 10, 2011
posted by Sara C. at 10:10 AM on February 10, 2011
Do the other parents believe in spanking kids? What's the preschool's form of discipline?
Any preschool that used or encouraged capital punishment would be a bad idea, regardless of the ideology.
I agree with others that the "god wants us to obey" thing is creepy, and it would give me pause about sending my kid there.
posted by Sara C. at 10:21 AM on February 10, 2011
Any preschool that used or encouraged capital punishment would be a bad idea, regardless of the ideology.
I agree with others that the "god wants us to obey" thing is creepy, and it would give me pause about sending my kid there.
posted by Sara C. at 10:21 AM on February 10, 2011
Yes, if your child's preschool is in favor of the death penalty for not sharing toys, I would certainly think twice.
posted by Sara C. at 10:51 AM on February 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Sara C. at 10:51 AM on February 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
Mrs. and I were raised christian (I catholic, her methodist). Neither of us attend any church. I would call myself agnostic. Not sure what she would call herself, you'll have to ask her.
Local preschool is a Jewish school. And more importantly, is a quality preschool. Awards, rave parent reviews, long waiting list, etc. We enrolled our son at age 3. He's in his second year there and we couldn't be happier with our decision. Our daughter, who is only 5 months old, will definitely be attending as well.
In making the decision, we thought it a great way to expose our children to various faith alternatives. We want our kids to be informed and make their own decisions about their faith.
He's learned about all the Jewish holidays, learned some Hebrew, they pray over meals, food is kosher... and I don't see any problem with that whatsoever. In addition, the faith teachings at his school have sparked some really good questions from him about faith, religion, etc. We want him to have an open mind and him attending a faith based school has helped achieve that. Not in what the school teaches, but how his mom and I handle his questions to us about the Jewish traditions.
Plus, bottom line is the educational quality of the school. There's a top-notch catholic high school in our area. And while I'm not a big fan of the catholic faith, I would send both our kids there without hesitation - if I could afford it.
posted by thatguyjeff at 11:04 AM on February 10, 2011
Local preschool is a Jewish school. And more importantly, is a quality preschool. Awards, rave parent reviews, long waiting list, etc. We enrolled our son at age 3. He's in his second year there and we couldn't be happier with our decision. Our daughter, who is only 5 months old, will definitely be attending as well.
In making the decision, we thought it a great way to expose our children to various faith alternatives. We want our kids to be informed and make their own decisions about their faith.
He's learned about all the Jewish holidays, learned some Hebrew, they pray over meals, food is kosher... and I don't see any problem with that whatsoever. In addition, the faith teachings at his school have sparked some really good questions from him about faith, religion, etc. We want him to have an open mind and him attending a faith based school has helped achieve that. Not in what the school teaches, but how his mom and I handle his questions to us about the Jewish traditions.
Plus, bottom line is the educational quality of the school. There's a top-notch catholic high school in our area. And while I'm not a big fan of the catholic faith, I would send both our kids there without hesitation - if I could afford it.
posted by thatguyjeff at 11:04 AM on February 10, 2011
This is a difficult question to answer since it mostly depends on your personal comfort level.
But I, as an atheist, would not send my child to this daycare. The things listed in the FAQ sound much more religious in nature than your average Christmas celebration (I'm an atheist, but I personally celebrate xmas in a totally secular presents and food and love your family way). In particular, the "God calls us" to do this, that, and the other thing is troubling to me. Do you want your kids to be kind and ethical because they think there's some sort of cosmic punishment involved if they aren't, or because it's just the right thing to do?
Will your kid be irreparably damaged or turned into a permanent adherent of blind faith because you send them to this daycare? Probably not. But what they are doing is indoctrination, like it or not, and if you want to raise your kids commensurate with your beliefs or lack thereof, it seems kind of silly to sign them up for a round of religious indoctrination at the formative age of three. It won't ruin their chances at critical thinking forever, but it does make more work for you. Also, if you're telling your child at home that god doesn't exist, but most of their classmates AND teachers are saying that he does, that could set up a really uncomfortable environment for your child. Not to mention the idea that your child then has to decide who knows more about this, their teacher or their parent. That's not really the kind of questions you want a preschooler to have to deal with.
posted by katyggls at 2:20 PM on February 10, 2011
But I, as an atheist, would not send my child to this daycare. The things listed in the FAQ sound much more religious in nature than your average Christmas celebration (I'm an atheist, but I personally celebrate xmas in a totally secular presents and food and love your family way). In particular, the "God calls us" to do this, that, and the other thing is troubling to me. Do you want your kids to be kind and ethical because they think there's some sort of cosmic punishment involved if they aren't, or because it's just the right thing to do?
Will your kid be irreparably damaged or turned into a permanent adherent of blind faith because you send them to this daycare? Probably not. But what they are doing is indoctrination, like it or not, and if you want to raise your kids commensurate with your beliefs or lack thereof, it seems kind of silly to sign them up for a round of religious indoctrination at the formative age of three. It won't ruin their chances at critical thinking forever, but it does make more work for you. Also, if you're telling your child at home that god doesn't exist, but most of their classmates AND teachers are saying that he does, that could set up a really uncomfortable environment for your child. Not to mention the idea that your child then has to decide who knows more about this, their teacher or their parent. That's not really the kind of questions you want a preschooler to have to deal with.
posted by katyggls at 2:20 PM on February 10, 2011
I want to pipe in with my two cents. I don't think it applies exactly in your case but others may read this.
I went to a Roman Catholic school. I wasn't religious but it didn't matter that much when we in school. Most kids weren't. Fast forward and my high school friends are ALL religious. Despite being in liberal Massachusetts the women that I was best friends with are ALL very republican and most are religious. I wish I had a more diverse group of friends from high school.
posted by beccaj at 3:10 PM on February 10, 2011
I went to a Roman Catholic school. I wasn't religious but it didn't matter that much when we in school. Most kids weren't. Fast forward and my high school friends are ALL religious. Despite being in liberal Massachusetts the women that I was best friends with are ALL very republican and most are religious. I wish I had a more diverse group of friends from high school.
posted by beccaj at 3:10 PM on February 10, 2011
I know you've already decided not to apply, and this internet stranger agrees. Why? Because I too was forced to go to a religious preschool. My mom is 'spiritual', nut the rest of my immediate the family is pretty darn atheist. But for some reason, it was decided we would drive 30 minutes every morning to go to this preschool in the church.
I was three. All I remember is coloring pictures of Jesus. Many pictures. It wasn't really bad... I just think I knew even back then it wasn't for me. And to this day I kinda cringe when I drive by that church.
Lesson learned though - my younger brother got to go to a pretty darn fun preschool I remember fondly, as I would beg my mom to let me go once I was done kindergarten for the day. Sometimes she did.
posted by cgg at 6:51 PM on February 10, 2011
I was three. All I remember is coloring pictures of Jesus. Many pictures. It wasn't really bad... I just think I knew even back then it wasn't for me. And to this day I kinda cringe when I drive by that church.
Lesson learned though - my younger brother got to go to a pretty darn fun preschool I remember fondly, as I would beg my mom to let me go once I was done kindergarten for the day. Sometimes she did.
posted by cgg at 6:51 PM on February 10, 2011
LOL. That's supposed to say 'spiritual, but...' The 'spiritual nut' I wrote about was an accident, really! But I will learn to preview better. One day.
posted by cgg at 6:56 PM on February 10, 2011
posted by cgg at 6:56 PM on February 10, 2011
Well, I'd visit all the schools and decide which one will give your child the best care and education.
If the Christian-leaning school appears to be best, then ask them if they teach origins in a generic "god started it" way, or a six-day-creation way. Talk to other like-minded parents at the school, and see if they feel like their kids have been indoctrinated.
It's not that hard to tell kids that "god" means different things to different people (like they say in AA). After all, there was some force that created our universe, or kickstarted it, or whatever. Others call it God; you may call it something different.
Christmas is going to be acknowledged or observed at practically any school your child attends. Don't worry about it; just explain it to your child in a way that makes you comfortable.
Going to a school that holds a "faith tradition" different from yours is not going to destroy your child's ability to reason. As others have said above, what is taught in the home is much more persuasive than what is taught at school.
I've answered many religious questions from my kids with "well, we just don't know, but here's what I think." I think it's helpful for kids to understand that the grownups they respect may come to different conclusions.
posted by torticat at 7:16 PM on February 10, 2011
If the Christian-leaning school appears to be best, then ask them if they teach origins in a generic "god started it" way, or a six-day-creation way. Talk to other like-minded parents at the school, and see if they feel like their kids have been indoctrinated.
It's not that hard to tell kids that "god" means different things to different people (like they say in AA). After all, there was some force that created our universe, or kickstarted it, or whatever. Others call it God; you may call it something different.
Christmas is going to be acknowledged or observed at practically any school your child attends. Don't worry about it; just explain it to your child in a way that makes you comfortable.
Going to a school that holds a "faith tradition" different from yours is not going to destroy your child's ability to reason. As others have said above, what is taught in the home is much more persuasive than what is taught at school.
I've answered many religious questions from my kids with "well, we just don't know, but here's what I think." I think it's helpful for kids to understand that the grownups they respect may come to different conclusions.
posted by torticat at 7:16 PM on February 10, 2011
I think in your shoes, I would also decline to apply to that school. I'm saying this as an atheist who has fond memories of Christian preschool. In my case it was a positive experience and I actually think it helped my critical thinking skills. My parents are both non-religious but chose the school because it was a lovely place, caring and warm. It was also chock full o' Jesus and I would come home and ask my parents earnest questions about God. I remember my mom explaining, "Well, some people believe so-and-so... and other people believe such-and-such..." It planted the seeds of realizing that I had to decide for myself, I didn't have to believe everything I was told. I did go through a heavy Christian phase in later childhood (assigning myself Bible reading before bedtime, etc.), but I started thinking more and more about it, and when I was 11 I realized I was an atheist.
The Christian preschool worked well for my family because (a) it was pretty mellow as far as the Christian aspect went, just some songs and gentle stories about God and love, no creepy messages about obeying without thinking; (b) my parents didn't have strong feelings about religion, so there was no real stress or conflict around the subject.
Since the preschool in question for your son seems pretty serious about pushing the religion, and since you as parents have reservations, and since you have other options, it sounds like you have every reason to stay away from this particular school. Despite my happy Christian school experience I would be very leery of sending my (hypothetical) kid to a religious school, because my partner and I have a much more negative view of religion than my parents did.
posted by asynchronous at 9:04 PM on February 10, 2011
The Christian preschool worked well for my family because (a) it was pretty mellow as far as the Christian aspect went, just some songs and gentle stories about God and love, no creepy messages about obeying without thinking; (b) my parents didn't have strong feelings about religion, so there was no real stress or conflict around the subject.
Since the preschool in question for your son seems pretty serious about pushing the religion, and since you as parents have reservations, and since you have other options, it sounds like you have every reason to stay away from this particular school. Despite my happy Christian school experience I would be very leery of sending my (hypothetical) kid to a religious school, because my partner and I have a much more negative view of religion than my parents did.
posted by asynchronous at 9:04 PM on February 10, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Yoshimi Battles at 7:44 AM on February 10, 2011