How do I retrieve my shop keys?
January 25, 2011 2:57 AM Subscribe
UK Employment (drama) filter: Employee will not return company property (keys). What next?
The long and short of it is:
1. Employee contract will come to an end in 7 days.
2. Employee was notified contract will not be renewed once its ended, was put on immediate garden leave.
3. Employee left in a huff-and-puff before keys could be retrieved.
4. Subsequently, employee was asked to return keys in an email.
5. Employee is insisting "I will be in touch once I'm paid up until end of contract"
Effectively, employee is holding keys hostage. What are my options? This is a tiny business so it has to be the cheapest and most effective way possible.
I would just pay him the balance but I am pretty sure he'll still keep on stalling.
The long and short of it is:
1. Employee contract will come to an end in 7 days.
2. Employee was notified contract will not be renewed once its ended, was put on immediate garden leave.
3. Employee left in a huff-and-puff before keys could be retrieved.
4. Subsequently, employee was asked to return keys in an email.
5. Employee is insisting "I will be in touch once I'm paid up until end of contract"
Effectively, employee is holding keys hostage. What are my options? This is a tiny business so it has to be the cheapest and most effective way possible.
I would just pay him the balance but I am pretty sure he'll still keep on stalling.
Best answer: Ask employee to come and pick up last payment in cash, and don't forget to bring keys?
posted by cogat at 3:04 AM on January 25, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by cogat at 3:04 AM on January 25, 2011 [2 favorites]
Change the locks, cheaper than losing control of your premises anytime he chooses not to behave.
You can still do the meeting as suggested, but this way you have peace of mind
posted by arcticseal at 3:08 AM on January 25, 2011 [4 favorites]
You can still do the meeting as suggested, but this way you have peace of mind
posted by arcticseal at 3:08 AM on January 25, 2011 [4 favorites]
Effectively, employee is holding keys hostage
I would just pay him the balance but I am pretty sure he'll still keep on stalling.
If you don't pay him until he returns the keys, you're hold his pay hostage. Pay the guy and change your locks. You should do that any time an employee leaves anyway as they may have made copies of the keys but particularly if an employee has been terminated or left under bad circumstances.
posted by missmagenta at 3:17 AM on January 25, 2011 [1 favorite]
I would just pay him the balance but I am pretty sure he'll still keep on stalling.
If you don't pay him until he returns the keys, you're hold his pay hostage. Pay the guy and change your locks. You should do that any time an employee leaves anyway as they may have made copies of the keys but particularly if an employee has been terminated or left under bad circumstances.
posted by missmagenta at 3:17 AM on January 25, 2011 [1 favorite]
i don't know the legality of this but i would change the locks and deduct the costs from his salary. what would you do if somebody lost the keys? treat it the same way.
if you want to avoid any kind of hassle it would probably just be easier to change the locks and pay him what he's owed.
next time you fire somebody ask them to hand over the keys before escorting them outside.
posted by canned polar bear at 3:20 AM on January 25, 2011 [1 favorite]
if you want to avoid any kind of hassle it would probably just be easier to change the locks and pay him what he's owed.
next time you fire somebody ask them to hand over the keys before escorting them outside.
posted by canned polar bear at 3:20 AM on January 25, 2011 [1 favorite]
You don't say where in the UK you are, but you can contact the CAB for your country, even if you're an employer.
posted by rubbish bin night at 3:33 AM on January 25, 2011
posted by rubbish bin night at 3:33 AM on January 25, 2011
Best answer: "i don't know the legality of this but i would change the locks and deduct the costs from his salary. what would you do if somebody lost the keys? treat it the same way."
Supremely bad advise. Do that and you'll end up in an employment tribunal which are notoriously pro employee. How pro employee? When I was managing a team here in London one member of staff uploaded a few hundred personal photos of himself and women in various degrees of undress, many showing total nudity, onto the company LAN, into a publicly readable directory.
Several staff complained and we started disciplinary proceedings to terminate (he was already on warning). His excuse was he was backing up his personal machine, and the company had no business inspecting his data. He them filed notice of intent and legal insisted we pay him the statutory maximum, £30K at the time because of the tribunals stance. Grated as this came right out of our bottom line, and we were all bonus incentivised.
Suggest you pay him the balance and change the locks immediately as you have no way of know if he'd made a copy. If he doesn't return the keys then file for your costs in small claims court via MoneyClaim.
However run all this past your counsel; seems like you're on thin ice at this point and a misstep can seriously multiply your costs.
posted by Mutant at 3:43 AM on January 25, 2011 [5 favorites]
Supremely bad advise. Do that and you'll end up in an employment tribunal which are notoriously pro employee. How pro employee? When I was managing a team here in London one member of staff uploaded a few hundred personal photos of himself and women in various degrees of undress, many showing total nudity, onto the company LAN, into a publicly readable directory.
Several staff complained and we started disciplinary proceedings to terminate (he was already on warning). His excuse was he was backing up his personal machine, and the company had no business inspecting his data. He them filed notice of intent and legal insisted we pay him the statutory maximum, £30K at the time because of the tribunals stance. Grated as this came right out of our bottom line, and we were all bonus incentivised.
Suggest you pay him the balance and change the locks immediately as you have no way of know if he'd made a copy. If he doesn't return the keys then file for your costs in small claims court via MoneyClaim.
However run all this past your counsel; seems like you're on thin ice at this point and a misstep can seriously multiply your costs.
posted by Mutant at 3:43 AM on January 25, 2011 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: Umm, maybe I should make it clear that he will automatically be paid in 7 days and I have no issue with that. The point is, I was trying to get my keys back before 7 days are up. I might just pay him by cheque immediately and ask him to bring the keys/pickup the cheque.
posted by gadha at 4:03 AM on January 25, 2011
posted by gadha at 4:03 AM on January 25, 2011
I have no expertise in employment or the law, but I agree with missmagenta. What I would do is just pay the guy what you owe him, which is your legal and moral obligation, and if he won't give back the keys at that point, change the locks.
I know you maybe don't want to spend the money on getting someone in to change the locks and cut new keys and whatnot, but your time is worth something too, and time you're spending arguing and negotiating with this guy and worrying about it is time you could be spending on more valuable aspects of your business.
posted by SoftRain at 4:04 AM on January 25, 2011
I know you maybe don't want to spend the money on getting someone in to change the locks and cut new keys and whatnot, but your time is worth something too, and time you're spending arguing and negotiating with this guy and worrying about it is time you could be spending on more valuable aspects of your business.
posted by SoftRain at 4:04 AM on January 25, 2011
You need to change locks anyway, even if you get the keys back. Don't entangle these two things.
In addition to the necessary peace of mind, it's also important to change locks because in the event of a "mysterious robbery" one day, your property or building insurance firm could find you liable for negligence and refuse to compensate you. ("You knew there were unaccounted-for and copyable keys in the hands of someone with a grudge? And you allowed this?") This depends on your particular insurance coverages, of course, but I have seen it happen.
And as others have said, there is no quid pro quo to this. You need to pay them, and they should return your property. It's two different issues, two different right things to do, no matter how your ex-employee tries to frame it as a trade.
posted by rokusan at 4:07 AM on January 25, 2011 [4 favorites]
In addition to the necessary peace of mind, it's also important to change locks because in the event of a "mysterious robbery" one day, your property or building insurance firm could find you liable for negligence and refuse to compensate you. ("You knew there were unaccounted-for and copyable keys in the hands of someone with a grudge? And you allowed this?") This depends on your particular insurance coverages, of course, but I have seen it happen.
And as others have said, there is no quid pro quo to this. You need to pay them, and they should return your property. It's two different issues, two different right things to do, no matter how your ex-employee tries to frame it as a trade.
posted by rokusan at 4:07 AM on January 25, 2011 [4 favorites]
speaking of covering all the bases, have you revoked the employee's credentials on your IT system and other access controlled systems? have you enforced mandatory credential changes for all systems the employee could have conceivably accessed?
never underestimate how far a disgruntled employee will go, or how long they will wait, or what manner they will choose, in exacting vengence.
posted by asymptotic at 4:42 AM on January 25, 2011 [1 favorite]
never underestimate how far a disgruntled employee will go, or how long they will wait, or what manner they will choose, in exacting vengence.
posted by asymptotic at 4:42 AM on January 25, 2011 [1 favorite]
>> never underestimate how far a disgruntled
>> employee will go, or how long they will wait
Seconded. What may be a polite transaction now, could turn into a drunken tirade later on down the line even if all obligations to the removed employee are met.
posted by lampshade at 5:46 AM on January 25, 2011
>> employee will go, or how long they will wait
Seconded. What may be a polite transaction now, could turn into a drunken tirade later on down the line even if all obligations to the removed employee are met.
posted by lampshade at 5:46 AM on January 25, 2011
Check with your insurance carrier. In the US anyway, a lot of property insurance policies contain an additional coverage for changing your locks. There's usually no deductible. If they then decide they want to go after your employee, that's their business, not yours, and there isn't any kind of employment issue.
Pay your employee what you owe, ask for the keys back, and if he won't do it, file a claim and let your carrier subrogate.
posted by valkyryn at 9:05 AM on January 25, 2011
Pay your employee what you owe, ask for the keys back, and if he won't do it, file a claim and let your carrier subrogate.
posted by valkyryn at 9:05 AM on January 25, 2011
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posted by Jakey at 3:03 AM on January 25, 2011