Christian/Buddhist Scripture
January 24, 2011 6:47 PM Subscribe
Looking for specific quotes from Buddhist and Christian scripture on two particular themes.
1) I'm looking for Biblical injunctions to fight baser impulses like lust, anger, etc. Old or New Testament is fine.
2) I'm also looking for Buddhist injunctions to pass over those same baser impulses in non-judgment. Any school of Buddhism is fine.
Thanks.
1) I'm looking for Biblical injunctions to fight baser impulses like lust, anger, etc. Old or New Testament is fine.
2) I'm also looking for Buddhist injunctions to pass over those same baser impulses in non-judgment. Any school of Buddhism is fine.
Thanks.
From the Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 5:27-30:
27 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.' 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell."posted by Rhaomi at 7:16 PM on January 24, 2011
Romans 12:18-21 is frequently cited (it includes "Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord"). Galatians 5:14-26 is another, which includes "For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself" as a prelude to telling the Galatians not to give in to anger, lust, etc.
posted by Sidhedevil at 7:21 PM on January 24, 2011
posted by Sidhedevil at 7:21 PM on January 24, 2011
And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell. - Matthew 18:9
A fool gives full vent to his anger, but a wise man keeps himself under control. - Proverbs 29:11
Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. - Colossians 3:5
In your anger do not sin: Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry - Ephesians 4:26
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 7:32 PM on January 24, 2011
A fool gives full vent to his anger, but a wise man keeps himself under control. - Proverbs 29:11
Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. - Colossians 3:5
In your anger do not sin: Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry - Ephesians 4:26
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 7:32 PM on January 24, 2011
As far as Buddhist teachings, you're looking for stuff related to the Eightfold Path I think. That Wikipedia article has some pretty appropriate quotes, like:
In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be unfactual, untrue, unbeneficial (or: not connected with the goal), unendearing and disagreeable to others, he does not say them.
In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, unbeneficial, unendearing and disagreeable to others, he does not say them.
In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, beneficial, but unendearing and disagreeable to others, he has a sense of the proper time for saying them.
...further down,
And what is right action? Abstaining from taking life, from stealing, and from illicit sex [or sexual misconduct]. This is called right action.
—Saccavibhanga Sutta
And what, monks, is right action? Abstaining from taking life, abstaining from stealing, abstaining from unchastity: This, monks, is called right action.
—Magga-vibhanga Sutta
Etc. etc. Kinda boring in my humble opinion, although I tend to agree with the general ideas.
There are also some great Zen stories like this one, which I've always particularly liked:
Tanzan and Ekido were once travelling together down a muddy road. A heavy rain was still falling.
Coming around a bend, they met a lovely girl in a silk kimono and sash, unable to cross the intersection.
"Come on, girl," said Tanzan at once. Lifting her in his arms, he carried her over the mud.
Ekido did not speak again until that night when they reached a lodging temple. Then he no longer could restrain himself. "We monks don't go near females," he told Tanzan, "especially not young and lovely ones. It is dangerous. Why did you do that?"
"I left the girl there," said Tanzan. "Are you still carrying her?"
More stories at this link, some may be appropriate. I hope this is what you're looking for...
posted by dubitable at 7:58 PM on January 24, 2011 [5 favorites]
In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be unfactual, untrue, unbeneficial (or: not connected with the goal), unendearing and disagreeable to others, he does not say them.
In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, unbeneficial, unendearing and disagreeable to others, he does not say them.
In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, beneficial, but unendearing and disagreeable to others, he has a sense of the proper time for saying them.
...further down,
And what is right action? Abstaining from taking life, from stealing, and from illicit sex [or sexual misconduct]. This is called right action.
—Saccavibhanga Sutta
And what, monks, is right action? Abstaining from taking life, abstaining from stealing, abstaining from unchastity: This, monks, is called right action.
—Magga-vibhanga Sutta
Etc. etc. Kinda boring in my humble opinion, although I tend to agree with the general ideas.
There are also some great Zen stories like this one, which I've always particularly liked:
Tanzan and Ekido were once travelling together down a muddy road. A heavy rain was still falling.
Coming around a bend, they met a lovely girl in a silk kimono and sash, unable to cross the intersection.
"Come on, girl," said Tanzan at once. Lifting her in his arms, he carried her over the mud.
Ekido did not speak again until that night when they reached a lodging temple. Then he no longer could restrain himself. "We monks don't go near females," he told Tanzan, "especially not young and lovely ones. It is dangerous. Why did you do that?"
"I left the girl there," said Tanzan. "Are you still carrying her?"
More stories at this link, some may be appropriate. I hope this is what you're looking for...
posted by dubitable at 7:58 PM on January 24, 2011 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: Dubitable, the story about the girl is getting close to what I'm describing. What I'm looking for from the Buddhist texts is: one should attend to their impulses mindfully and refuse to either judge them or indulge in them - noting them as nothing more than transient bodily and mental sensations, and moving on.
I hope that's helpful.
posted by mellifluous at 8:17 PM on January 24, 2011
I hope that's helpful.
posted by mellifluous at 8:17 PM on January 24, 2011
Yeah, mellifluous, that gives me a better sense...following from there, I *think* the Heart Sutra may be appropriate, this one is a reasonable version I guess (but I'm not really sure what the best one would be if you care, I just poked around with Google a bit).
I'll think some more on it and see if I can come up with anything better. I'm really intrigued now to know what this is about, by the way...but maybe you don't want to lead us in any one direction, which I can understand. But if you do want to tell us more I'd love to hear it.
posted by dubitable at 8:35 PM on January 24, 2011
I'll think some more on it and see if I can come up with anything better. I'm really intrigued now to know what this is about, by the way...but maybe you don't want to lead us in any one direction, which I can understand. But if you do want to tell us more I'd love to hear it.
posted by dubitable at 8:35 PM on January 24, 2011
I like (well, maybe 'like' is not quite the right word -- but, find profound) the story of Cain and Abel, from the fourth chapter of book of Genesis in the Hebrew Scriptures, English Standard Version (emphasis mine):
Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, saying, "I have gotten a man with the help of the LORD." And again, she bore his brother Abel. Now Abel was a keeper of sheep, and Cain a worker of the ground. In the course of time Cain brought to the LORD an offering of the fruit of the ground, and Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat portions. And the LORD had regard for Abel and his offering, but for Cain and his offering he had no regard. So Cain was very angry, and his face fell. The LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry, and why has your face fallen? If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is for you, but you must rule over it."
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:48 PM on January 24, 2011
Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, saying, "I have gotten a man with the help of the LORD." And again, she bore his brother Abel. Now Abel was a keeper of sheep, and Cain a worker of the ground. In the course of time Cain brought to the LORD an offering of the fruit of the ground, and Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat portions. And the LORD had regard for Abel and his offering, but for Cain and his offering he had no regard. So Cain was very angry, and his face fell. The LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry, and why has your face fallen? If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is for you, but you must rule over it."
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:48 PM on January 24, 2011
The Dhammapada is one of the most popular Buddhist texts and a good source of epigrams (though maybe not the most philosophically interesting). You might especially like the sections on anger and craving. For example:
222. He who checks rising anger as a charioteer checks a rolling chariot, him I call a true charioteer. Others only hold the reins.
(By the way, this is a really common metaphor all over the world--for example, Plato uses the same one in the Phaedrus--so you may be able to find a Christian quote that sounds almost the same.)
More:
80. Irrigators regulate the rivers; fletchers straighten the arrow shaft; carpenters shape the wood; the wise control themselves.
If you find a verse you like, check multiple translations, because they can make the same idea sound quite different. Here's another.
posted by Chicken Boolean at 9:01 PM on January 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
222. He who checks rising anger as a charioteer checks a rolling chariot, him I call a true charioteer. Others only hold the reins.
(By the way, this is a really common metaphor all over the world--for example, Plato uses the same one in the Phaedrus--so you may be able to find a Christian quote that sounds almost the same.)
More:
80. Irrigators regulate the rivers; fletchers straighten the arrow shaft; carpenters shape the wood; the wise control themselves.
If you find a verse you like, check multiple translations, because they can make the same idea sound quite different. Here's another.
posted by Chicken Boolean at 9:01 PM on January 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
Actually, Access to Insight has a subject index of (Theravada) Buddhist texts, where you can look up texts that mention anger, lust, restraint, etc.
posted by Chicken Boolean at 9:18 PM on January 24, 2011
posted by Chicken Boolean at 9:18 PM on January 24, 2011
The teaching to pass over things with non-judgment comes from the Maha-satipatthana Sutta teaching about samatha, mindfulness meditation:
The other thing to keep in mind is that this teaching about hindrances is in the context of a teaching about establishing mindfulness meditation with the goal of awakening. It could be misleading to take a single meditation instruction, even an important one, to characterize the entire Buddhist approach to morality; in the first place, only monks were expected to practice meditation in many cases. Also there are numerous examples of Buddhist teachings that are as judgmental as Christian teachings. For example, the Buddha speaks very highly of shame and fear in morality, hiri and ottappa, calling them the two bright guardians of the world. In the famous Bodhicaryavatara, Santideva seems to embody these virtues here, repeatedly calling himself a sinner: "And whatever terrible vices, I, a sinner, defiled with many faults, have done, O Guides, I confess them all. / And whatever terrible vices, I, a sinner, defiled with many faults, have done, O Guides, I confess them all.... Terrified, I utter a mournful cry to the Protector, Avalokita, whose conduct overflows with compassion, that he may protect me, a sinner."
posted by AlsoMike at 9:20 PM on January 24, 2011 [2 favorites]
And how does a monk remain focused on mental qualities in & of themselves with reference to the five hindrances? There is the case where, there being sensual desire present within, a monk discerns that 'There is sensual desire present within me.' Or, there being no sensual desire present within, he discerns that 'There is no sensual desire present within me.' He discerns how there is the arising of unarisen sensual desire. And he discerns how there is the abandoning of sensual desire once it has arisen. And he discerns how there is no future arising of sensual desire that has been abandoned. (The same formula is repeated for the remaining hindrances: ill will, sloth & drowsiness, restlessness & anxiety, and uncertainty.)Some of the hindrances are listed with the kilesas: greed, hate, delusion, conceit, wrong views, doubt, torpor, restlessness, shamelessness, recklessness. According to that Wikipedia page: "All Buddhist schools teach that through Tranquility (Samatha) meditation the kilesas are pacified, though not eradicated, and through Insight (Vipassana) the true nature of the kilesas and the mind itself is understood." But I can't find any sutra that says this directly, only one that mentions overcoming hindrances, and I'm not positive that hindrances and general immoral impulses are the same.
The other thing to keep in mind is that this teaching about hindrances is in the context of a teaching about establishing mindfulness meditation with the goal of awakening. It could be misleading to take a single meditation instruction, even an important one, to characterize the entire Buddhist approach to morality; in the first place, only monks were expected to practice meditation in many cases. Also there are numerous examples of Buddhist teachings that are as judgmental as Christian teachings. For example, the Buddha speaks very highly of shame and fear in morality, hiri and ottappa, calling them the two bright guardians of the world. In the famous Bodhicaryavatara, Santideva seems to embody these virtues here, repeatedly calling himself a sinner: "And whatever terrible vices, I, a sinner, defiled with many faults, have done, O Guides, I confess them all. / And whatever terrible vices, I, a sinner, defiled with many faults, have done, O Guides, I confess them all.... Terrified, I utter a mournful cry to the Protector, Avalokita, whose conduct overflows with compassion, that he may protect me, a sinner."
posted by AlsoMike at 9:20 PM on January 24, 2011 [2 favorites]
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Romans 13:9: For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
Romans 13:13-14: Let us walk properly as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarreling and jealousy. But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.
The Bible teaches that you won't be able to do these things nor live a God-pleasing life unless you get a new heart or, quoting Colossians, "a new self," which is only thru faith in Christ.
posted by jgwong at 7:15 PM on January 24, 2011