How are these so called 'baristas' ruining my coffee, and how do I make them stop?
January 21, 2011 5:37 AM Subscribe
How are these so called 'baristas' ruining my coffee, and how do I make them stop? Sometimes I get a flavourful coffee, full of body, other times the same drink will be tasteless and worse than a cheap instant yet I can see they have put the same amount of shots in. I'm talking about the same shop in some cases, it must be a training issue but what do they need to learn? For info I drink mainly Americanos but have experienced similar with lattes. More inside.
I wouldn't regard myself as a coffee snob. I like to treat myself to a coffee on the move once or twice a week. In the UK this is usually around the £2 mark, so not cheap and you expect a decent cup of coffee for that. At the moment it seems to be a lottery as to whether I get a good coffee or this other 'thing' that I get served by numerous places,all citing their gourmet coffee credentials.
The only one that consistently seems to get it right is Caffe Nero. The one that seems to consistently get it wrong is Costa but that's beside the point. The difference is immediately noticeable between a good coffee and this mishap I am served. The coffee is at a scalding temperature and there is an absence of any taste to the coffee, like a low quality cup of instant made with dish water.
Just what is it that they are doing that's ruining the coffee. Is it the temperature? What can I do to stop them from doing it. I know there's an element of going to a trusted place but sometimes there's just not one close by and I know these places have the beans and equipment to make a decent cup.
Also my geeky side is just curious as to how the same place can make such different tasting coffee!
I wouldn't regard myself as a coffee snob. I like to treat myself to a coffee on the move once or twice a week. In the UK this is usually around the £2 mark, so not cheap and you expect a decent cup of coffee for that. At the moment it seems to be a lottery as to whether I get a good coffee or this other 'thing' that I get served by numerous places,all citing their gourmet coffee credentials.
The only one that consistently seems to get it right is Caffe Nero. The one that seems to consistently get it wrong is Costa but that's beside the point. The difference is immediately noticeable between a good coffee and this mishap I am served. The coffee is at a scalding temperature and there is an absence of any taste to the coffee, like a low quality cup of instant made with dish water.
Just what is it that they are doing that's ruining the coffee. Is it the temperature? What can I do to stop them from doing it. I know there's an element of going to a trusted place but sometimes there's just not one close by and I know these places have the beans and equipment to make a decent cup.
Also my geeky side is just curious as to how the same place can make such different tasting coffee!
The best way to have them get it right is to correct them when they get it wrong. How else will they know if you don't send it back?
posted by inturnaround at 5:59 AM on January 21, 2011
posted by inturnaround at 5:59 AM on January 21, 2011
It's probably less the temperature and more the length of the shot/type of espresso machine. I was a barista for several years in college (so about five years ago), and the optimum length of time for a shot was 18-24 seconds, although in some areas a shot is acceptable up to about 28 seconds. Too short or two long and you get a terrible tasting shot--very bitter and/or burnt tasting, or very weak/tasteless.
The machine could also play a part. Some major chains in the US (like Starbucks) use a "super-automatic" machine, which grinds, tamps, and pulls at the push of a button. There's really no skill involved, and while it tends to keep things consistent and reduce user error, it also can produce a weaker/less tasty shot. An automatic (which is what we used) requires the barista to grind the coffee into the portafilter, tamp, and attach to the machine, and then a button runs the water. We'd time the shot; anything that fell out of the 18-24 range was dumped. This type of machine requires the barista to know how to adjust the grind, how to fill the portafilter, how to tamp, etc. The shots are much better than a super-automatic, but only if done right.
Also, the cleanliness of the machine could play a factor as well. At least once per week, we ran a special cleaning cycle on the machine with a special solution, and daily we wiped down the head where the portafilter attaches. If the machine isn't clean, you could be getting a burnt taste from old grounds that are stuck to various parts.
Now, you could ask the shop a bunch of questions about how long their shots are, what kind of machine they run, how often they clean it, etc.--but you'd probably have better luck just going to where the coffee is consistently good. No shop is going to have a perfect drink every time, but there will be trends.
Disclaimer: this is just a basic explanation--I know it can get much, much more technical. Also, keep in mind I haven't done this in about five years, so certain things may have changed (quality of superautomatic shots, etc).
And on preview, if you're drinking Americanos, there's no milk, right? You could ask them to pull the hot water from the coffee maker rather than the espresso machine--the water from the espresso machine is much, much hotter than that from the drip coffee machine.
posted by catwoman429 at 5:59 AM on January 21, 2011 [7 favorites]
The machine could also play a part. Some major chains in the US (like Starbucks) use a "super-automatic" machine, which grinds, tamps, and pulls at the push of a button. There's really no skill involved, and while it tends to keep things consistent and reduce user error, it also can produce a weaker/less tasty shot. An automatic (which is what we used) requires the barista to grind the coffee into the portafilter, tamp, and attach to the machine, and then a button runs the water. We'd time the shot; anything that fell out of the 18-24 range was dumped. This type of machine requires the barista to know how to adjust the grind, how to fill the portafilter, how to tamp, etc. The shots are much better than a super-automatic, but only if done right.
Also, the cleanliness of the machine could play a factor as well. At least once per week, we ran a special cleaning cycle on the machine with a special solution, and daily we wiped down the head where the portafilter attaches. If the machine isn't clean, you could be getting a burnt taste from old grounds that are stuck to various parts.
Now, you could ask the shop a bunch of questions about how long their shots are, what kind of machine they run, how often they clean it, etc.--but you'd probably have better luck just going to where the coffee is consistently good. No shop is going to have a perfect drink every time, but there will be trends.
Disclaimer: this is just a basic explanation--I know it can get much, much more technical. Also, keep in mind I haven't done this in about five years, so certain things may have changed (quality of superautomatic shots, etc).
And on preview, if you're drinking Americanos, there's no milk, right? You could ask them to pull the hot water from the coffee maker rather than the espresso machine--the water from the espresso machine is much, much hotter than that from the drip coffee machine.
posted by catwoman429 at 5:59 AM on January 21, 2011 [7 favorites]
It could be that the espresso machine is out of calibration. In my experience, they can be a bit fussy and require some attention to maintain quality shots. Most machines have an adjustable grinding mechanism, and an optimal number of seconds for shots to pour. If the grind is too coarse, the shots will pour too fast giving you a weak, watery espresso. If the grind is too fine, the shots will be overextracted, making them bitter and maybe even tasting burnt.
posted by secrethandshake at 6:06 AM on January 21, 2011
posted by secrethandshake at 6:06 AM on January 21, 2011
To screw an americano up, you can do the following:
-Use a coffee that doesn't really fit the drink (too darkly roasted, mostly; without any acidity the americano will be flat and boring). The Americano is literally coffee and water, so the actual taste of the espresso, and what coffee they use, is the most important factor.
-Use too much, too hot water.
-Make too short of a shot (the typical "ristretto" trend that still endures many places in the UK).
-Make too long of a shot (not knowing what you're doing, basically; the signs of a bad shot are easily recognizable).
Going by length can be deceiving. You can both over- and under extract a shot regardless of visible shot length.
posted by flippant at 6:13 AM on January 21, 2011
-Use a coffee that doesn't really fit the drink (too darkly roasted, mostly; without any acidity the americano will be flat and boring). The Americano is literally coffee and water, so the actual taste of the espresso, and what coffee they use, is the most important factor.
-Use too much, too hot water.
-Make too short of a shot (the typical "ristretto" trend that still endures many places in the UK).
-Make too long of a shot (not knowing what you're doing, basically; the signs of a bad shot are easily recognizable).
Going by length can be deceiving. You can both over- and under extract a shot regardless of visible shot length.
posted by flippant at 6:13 AM on January 21, 2011
I would discard the possibility that they just don't know the right ratio for Americanos. At least in the US, not many people order them and I've definitely had baristas water them down too much.
posted by yarly at 6:15 AM on January 21, 2011
posted by yarly at 6:15 AM on January 21, 2011
Response by poster: Wow, this is beginning to explain why the Costa franchises on the motorway make such horrible coffee, there's a lot to get wrong here!
I always assumed that within some part of the process they were turning the temperature too high, as a steaming hot coffee always set my alarm bells off, but it seems there's much more to it. Thanks for the responses so far, very interesting.
posted by razzman at 6:17 AM on January 21, 2011
I always assumed that within some part of the process they were turning the temperature too high, as a steaming hot coffee always set my alarm bells off, but it seems there's much more to it. Thanks for the responses so far, very interesting.
posted by razzman at 6:17 AM on January 21, 2011
Buy local and communicate with the staff... gets you the best cup every time.
Franchises are destroying coffee in the states.
posted by isopropyl at 6:23 AM on January 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
Franchises are destroying coffee in the states.
posted by isopropyl at 6:23 AM on January 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
Here's a good video outlining the process of making an espresso. It's more challenging than you'd think.
The other videos in that series are good as well.
posted by mhoye at 6:25 AM on January 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
The other videos in that series are good as well.
posted by mhoye at 6:25 AM on January 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
If there's a place that you go regularly, you could work out which of the baristas consistently makes good drinks, and request that person to make it for you. I see other customers doing this from time to time. I have no idea what the baristas themselves actually think of this practice though...
posted by ultrabuff at 6:43 AM on January 21, 2011
posted by ultrabuff at 6:43 AM on January 21, 2011
There are several factors that go into making a good espresso drink, so they could be crapping it up in any number of ways, maybe even more than one. If they're using old beans, pulling the shot too long or short, using the wrong grind, over steaming the milk, re-steaming the milk, not getting the milk temperature right, etc., and on and on. In my experience the only way to get consistently good espresso drinks is to go to a shop that is devoted to exquisite and properly made espresso drinks.
You can get a mediocre coffee drink anywhere but to get something really good and fresh and made correctly, you have to seek out the shops that can do that. Same principle with anything, really--for example, here in the States you know you can get quasi/mostly palatable meals at almost any chain, but if you want a good meal and dining experience, you're going to go to a restaurant that knows their stuff (not necessarily expensive, but just one that cares about how they're preparing and serving) and is not in business just to churn out their product in high volumes. It's the same thing with coffee. If a shop isn't serious about coffee and their process or if they don't invest in properly training baristas, you're not going to get something awesome or even consistent.
posted by Rudy Gerner at 7:07 AM on January 21, 2011
You can get a mediocre coffee drink anywhere but to get something really good and fresh and made correctly, you have to seek out the shops that can do that. Same principle with anything, really--for example, here in the States you know you can get quasi/mostly palatable meals at almost any chain, but if you want a good meal and dining experience, you're going to go to a restaurant that knows their stuff (not necessarily expensive, but just one that cares about how they're preparing and serving) and is not in business just to churn out their product in high volumes. It's the same thing with coffee. If a shop isn't serious about coffee and their process or if they don't invest in properly training baristas, you're not going to get something awesome or even consistent.
posted by Rudy Gerner at 7:07 AM on January 21, 2011
I wouldn't harangue the baristas about this. Write to the company, if it's a large chain, or talk to the manager and explain what's going on. Those are the people who control training and quality assurance. In my experience, they care a lot about customer input. Particularly if you note that you're telling other people about your experience.
Rather than telling the baristas how to make your drink, taste it while you're still at the cafe and if it isn't right, take it back and ask for another. Specify what's wrong. ("Sorry, this is too weak. Can you make another?") But I wouldn't stand there telling them how to do their jobs...pissing off the people who handle your food isn't a great idea.
posted by corey flood at 7:10 AM on January 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
Rather than telling the baristas how to make your drink, taste it while you're still at the cafe and if it isn't right, take it back and ask for another. Specify what's wrong. ("Sorry, this is too weak. Can you make another?") But I wouldn't stand there telling them how to do their jobs...pissing off the people who handle your food isn't a great idea.
posted by corey flood at 7:10 AM on January 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
I've been the barista who's asked to make the drinks, and (as a newbie at a new place) the perfectly competent person on the machine watching as a customer whispers "can you make my drink" to my coworker. It's not enjoyable on either side, and the way we kept it from being divisive behind the counter was usually to raise our eyebrows at each other, or worse, behind the customer's back. Fyi.
I think the suggestion to find a good place is right. I also think it's possible to strike up a conversation about barista training and what their standards are for pulling their shots, but this works best done from a position of some understanding—"I have a preference for longer shots with a darker roast, are you the place for me?" rather than "This is bad, why is it bad?" (It also helps enormously to have the kind of conversational bearing that can seem inquisitive rather than judgmental.) I worked at a shop for a long time that went from "why are you dumping out that perfectly good steamed milk, we can re-use that!" to serious barista training and standards, and these kinds of conversations were a part of that shift.
posted by felix grundy at 7:14 AM on January 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
I think the suggestion to find a good place is right. I also think it's possible to strike up a conversation about barista training and what their standards are for pulling their shots, but this works best done from a position of some understanding—"I have a preference for longer shots with a darker roast, are you the place for me?" rather than "This is bad, why is it bad?" (It also helps enormously to have the kind of conversational bearing that can seem inquisitive rather than judgmental.) I worked at a shop for a long time that went from "why are you dumping out that perfectly good steamed milk, we can re-use that!" to serious barista training and standards, and these kinds of conversations were a part of that shift.
posted by felix grundy at 7:14 AM on January 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
So given that you can't guarantee that every shot will be perfect, here is what I would ask if I were to walk into a random espresso place and I wanted to know before ordering if the shot was likely to be good (and I wasn't afraid of dickish questions)
- How old are your beans and where are they from? A good answer is less than a week from somewhere local. Roasting is more important than almost anything else. Beans that are pitch black and glistening are bad. Lighter less oily beans are good
- Did you calibrate your grinder this morning?
- Did you clean your machine and dial it in this morning?
- What size dose do you use for what volume of shot? The answer should be in grams anywhere from 15 to 25 depending on single/double and a number of other factors. If the barista can't give you that number, they probably don't know their stuff unless they are extremely consistent at measuring by volume from the doser.
-What temp do you steam milk to, and do you even bother with a thermometer?
The bad shots you are getting sound like they are over extracted if they are super hot, bitter and harsh. This is a machine or grinder issue that can only be diagnosed and addressed by someone that knows what they're doing.
posted by slow graffiti at 7:27 AM on January 21, 2011
- How old are your beans and where are they from? A good answer is less than a week from somewhere local. Roasting is more important than almost anything else. Beans that are pitch black and glistening are bad. Lighter less oily beans are good
- Did you calibrate your grinder this morning?
- Did you clean your machine and dial it in this morning?
- What size dose do you use for what volume of shot? The answer should be in grams anywhere from 15 to 25 depending on single/double and a number of other factors. If the barista can't give you that number, they probably don't know their stuff unless they are extremely consistent at measuring by volume from the doser.
-What temp do you steam milk to, and do you even bother with a thermometer?
The bad shots you are getting sound like they are over extracted if they are super hot, bitter and harsh. This is a machine or grinder issue that can only be diagnosed and addressed by someone that knows what they're doing.
posted by slow graffiti at 7:27 AM on January 21, 2011
Agreeing with most of what's been said, esp. the complexity of the issue.
But there are priorities (reminds me a little of the HiFi discussion of the eighties: look for the weakest link) The issue in these walk-by (er, in) coffee shops is more often than not the milk temperature (or the temperature of anything else added to the basic shot). Not very many of them produce, in my experience, a better than tolerable espresso (talk about me and my Moka pot...) but with some perfectly heated and foamed milk, even a mediocre shot makes an okay latte.
Turn this around and you end up nowhere. A most sublime espresso can be turned into a flat and blistering nightmare if your milk is too hot, or has been re-heated two-three times.
Some UK coffee shops use little thermometers at the side of their milk containers to specifically address this issue. No one I know uses them well...
I agree that it isn't worth arguing, and stressful at the other side of the counter if you request your personal barista (Very 19th-c. Vienna to my mind, class society and all that, waiters who know the specific milk-coffee ratio for about 170 customers and are testing the proper temperature with a discreet thumb-insertion). Better try find the best coffee place in your area and stick to it.
posted by Namlit at 7:37 AM on January 21, 2011
But there are priorities (reminds me a little of the HiFi discussion of the eighties: look for the weakest link) The issue in these walk-by (er, in) coffee shops is more often than not the milk temperature (or the temperature of anything else added to the basic shot). Not very many of them produce, in my experience, a better than tolerable espresso (talk about me and my Moka pot...) but with some perfectly heated and foamed milk, even a mediocre shot makes an okay latte.
Turn this around and you end up nowhere. A most sublime espresso can be turned into a flat and blistering nightmare if your milk is too hot, or has been re-heated two-three times.
Some UK coffee shops use little thermometers at the side of their milk containers to specifically address this issue. No one I know uses them well...
I agree that it isn't worth arguing, and stressful at the other side of the counter if you request your personal barista (Very 19th-c. Vienna to my mind, class society and all that, waiters who know the specific milk-coffee ratio for about 170 customers and are testing the proper temperature with a discreet thumb-insertion). Better try find the best coffee place in your area and stick to it.
posted by Namlit at 7:37 AM on January 21, 2011
I hate to say it, but the best way to solve this issue is brewing your own. You can tweak it and make it exactly the way you want. When it's wrong, toss it and start over. Here's a great machine I own. It's cheap and makes a pretty good espresso.
Barring this, find a place with a barista that makes your americanos correctly. Make friends with the barista and find out when they work. Only go when they work and ask them what they do differently than everyone else that makes your coffee so good.
posted by TheBones at 7:48 AM on January 21, 2011
Barring this, find a place with a barista that makes your americanos correctly. Make friends with the barista and find out when they work. Only go when they work and ask them what they do differently than everyone else that makes your coffee so good.
posted by TheBones at 7:48 AM on January 21, 2011
Assuming the barista is pulling decent shots to begin with, the easiest way to screw up an Americano is with the temperature of the water added to it -- it needs to be between about 195F and 205F. Hotter, and you'll have a burnt taste, colder, and it will be sour. This is a whole lot harder to ignore in an Americano than a milk-based drink, because just a little milk or sugar disguises it nicely, so a lot of places get it wrong.
Around here, Starbucks (yeah, I know -- rules out the decent shot question right up front) has a tendency to pull the shots and then pour in water right off the boil, complementing over-roasted coffee with a burnt shot. Yum.
posted by nonliteral at 8:16 AM on January 21, 2011
Around here, Starbucks (yeah, I know -- rules out the decent shot question right up front) has a tendency to pull the shots and then pour in water right off the boil, complementing over-roasted coffee with a burnt shot. Yum.
posted by nonliteral at 8:16 AM on January 21, 2011
If you're in London, chances are - as with most minimum wage jobs - your server is not a native English speaker and an angry lecture on the specifics of coffee making will not always be easily or happily understood. Also, if my experience in low-paid jobs is anything to go by, they've been told to do it *this way* and if they don't, they need to find themselves a new job.
My advice is to try and find a local independent - you don't say where you are but there are lots of them about. Or buy a Gaggia and a commuter cup.
posted by mippy at 8:28 AM on January 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
My advice is to try and find a local independent - you don't say where you are but there are lots of them about. Or buy a Gaggia and a commuter cup.
posted by mippy at 8:28 AM on January 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
It's the length of the espresso shots, if they run too long they will taste bitter and foul.
posted by Bron-Y-Aur at 9:34 AM on January 21, 2011
posted by Bron-Y-Aur at 9:34 AM on January 21, 2011
They're steaming the milk too hot, at least that's my guess. I think when I was a barista, it was preferred to have it top out at 110F or so, where it was easy to pull it from the steamer and still have it go up to a scorching, shitty-tasting 120F. I might be wrong with the numbers, but just give your barista the heads up not to make your milk too hot.
I wanted to come back here and correct myself, now that I've woken up, had half a coffee and seen some more realistic numbers. These numbers are waaaaay off, and obviously the issue of you often having an americano... Sorry for the useless, knee-jerk first response in the thread.
posted by sunshinesky at 10:17 AM on January 21, 2011
I wanted to come back here and correct myself, now that I've woken up, had half a coffee and seen some more realistic numbers. These numbers are waaaaay off, and obviously the issue of you often having an americano... Sorry for the useless, knee-jerk first response in the thread.
posted by sunshinesky at 10:17 AM on January 21, 2011
If you have an iPhone, is there an app for rating coffee places that could direct you to better places? I know there are such apps for my city, but then, Melbourne does think that it is a city that likes its coffee.
As identified above, there are so many factors that go into coffee making that it is hard to narrow it down to technical or personal factors at a quick glance. My regular cafe had good baristas, but there was one particular one who just couldn't do it, so I would go elsewhere if I saw they were at the machine. I highly recommend listening to the CoffeeGeek podcasts (also in iTunes) if you want to learn more.
In one podcast, I remember them talking about how to find good coffee, and that one of the tips was that when you walk in, you should be hearing grinding because good places will grind fresh as required. I think it talked about other sounds and sights... but I don't remember which of the podcasts this was in!
posted by AnnaRat at 1:39 PM on January 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
As identified above, there are so many factors that go into coffee making that it is hard to narrow it down to technical or personal factors at a quick glance. My regular cafe had good baristas, but there was one particular one who just couldn't do it, so I would go elsewhere if I saw they were at the machine. I highly recommend listening to the CoffeeGeek podcasts (also in iTunes) if you want to learn more.
In one podcast, I remember them talking about how to find good coffee, and that one of the tips was that when you walk in, you should be hearing grinding because good places will grind fresh as required. I think it talked about other sounds and sights... but I don't remember which of the podcasts this was in!
posted by AnnaRat at 1:39 PM on January 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
If it's a matter of different chains or different cafes - there's a strong possibility that you just don't like the espresso blend they serve.
The best cafe in my neighborhood for relaxing with a cup and a newspaper happens to always serve bitter espresso. I suppose it's possible that they simply don't know how to pull a shot, but it's telling to me that they use a slightly weird brand of beans. My favorite cafe in the whole city roasts their own, too. So my guess is that it has to do with my palate and a specific preference for a certain sort of espresso blend.
Of course if you're going to the same chain and some of them are getting it right and others aren't, then the issue is a technical one, not in the beans.
posted by Sara C. at 11:39 PM on January 21, 2011
The best cafe in my neighborhood for relaxing with a cup and a newspaper happens to always serve bitter espresso. I suppose it's possible that they simply don't know how to pull a shot, but it's telling to me that they use a slightly weird brand of beans. My favorite cafe in the whole city roasts their own, too. So my guess is that it has to do with my palate and a specific preference for a certain sort of espresso blend.
Of course if you're going to the same chain and some of them are getting it right and others aren't, then the issue is a technical one, not in the beans.
posted by Sara C. at 11:39 PM on January 21, 2011
If you're getting inconsistent drinks, there are only two options:
1. Poor training.
2. Poor maintenance.
Neither is anything you, the customer, can fix. The best that you can do is leave a complaint with the manager so that they know there's a problem, and get your coffee elsewhere. I would be absolutely clear in the complaint that you consider it the manager's, and not the employee's, problem, because these kind of issues are systemic. Don't make it easy for the manager to just yell at the employee who happened to be on shift.
The truth is that training and maintenance cost money, and as long as the public accepts a bad cup of coffee, managers have a financial disincentive to let them slide. Some managers won't let that happen because they take pride in their product, but that's certainly not everyone.
If you can't find a good coffee shop that's convenient, I would pick the least worst and attempt to go when it's not rush hour. When it gets busy, it's harder to make a good drink, and the last thing you want to do is remake one because you made a mistake. You maximize your chances of getting a good drink if the baristas have time to pay attention to what they're doing.
(Now, I said "inconsistent" because it's possible that a place will do their drinks in a style that you don't like (by using darker/lighter beans than you prefer, for example). But if that's the case, then your drinks should be consistently bad.)
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 1:05 PM on January 23, 2011
1. Poor training.
2. Poor maintenance.
Neither is anything you, the customer, can fix. The best that you can do is leave a complaint with the manager so that they know there's a problem, and get your coffee elsewhere. I would be absolutely clear in the complaint that you consider it the manager's, and not the employee's, problem, because these kind of issues are systemic. Don't make it easy for the manager to just yell at the employee who happened to be on shift.
The truth is that training and maintenance cost money, and as long as the public accepts a bad cup of coffee, managers have a financial disincentive to let them slide. Some managers won't let that happen because they take pride in their product, but that's certainly not everyone.
If you can't find a good coffee shop that's convenient, I would pick the least worst and attempt to go when it's not rush hour. When it gets busy, it's harder to make a good drink, and the last thing you want to do is remake one because you made a mistake. You maximize your chances of getting a good drink if the baristas have time to pay attention to what they're doing.
(Now, I said "inconsistent" because it's possible that a place will do their drinks in a style that you don't like (by using darker/lighter beans than you prefer, for example). But if that's the case, then your drinks should be consistently bad.)
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 1:05 PM on January 23, 2011
« Older How can I acquire a student loan when my school... | If you were to crowdsource the title of a book... Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by sunshinesky at 5:55 AM on January 21, 2011 [2 favorites]