Catholic Class?
January 12, 2011 12:11 PM Subscribe
My wife's parents are Catholic and they want us to baptise our daughter. Fine, whatever. But now my wife and I have to go to some kind of class.
Apparently we can't just show up on Sunday at the Family Church and expect to baptise our child. We have to go to some class before hand. Have you been to one of these classes? What happens at them? What should I expect? It's tonight and it's supposed to be for "a couple of hours".
Thanks
Apparently we can't just show up on Sunday at the Family Church and expect to baptise our child. We have to go to some class before hand. Have you been to one of these classes? What happens at them? What should I expect? It's tonight and it's supposed to be for "a couple of hours".
Thanks
Best answer: The one I went to (my wife stayed home with the baby) was 90 minutes I think. The priest explained what Baptism is, what it means, its history, etc. and then went through what would happen on the day. It's a pretty simple sacrament, actually. Mostly you just stand where he tells you to and repeat after him when prompted.
He'll also explain what suitable Godparents (aka Sponsors) are. One of them has to be Catholic and the other has to be Christian if not Catholic. They need to be able to get a letter from their home church saying that they're eligible to be Godparents, essentially meaning they go to Mass regularly there. You don't need two Godparents but it's recommended. If you do have two one has to be male and the other female. They don't have to be married to one-another, but if they are they have to have been married in the Catholic Church.
posted by davextreme at 12:21 PM on January 12, 2011
He'll also explain what suitable Godparents (aka Sponsors) are. One of them has to be Catholic and the other has to be Christian if not Catholic. They need to be able to get a letter from their home church saying that they're eligible to be Godparents, essentially meaning they go to Mass regularly there. You don't need two Godparents but it's recommended. If you do have two one has to be male and the other female. They don't have to be married to one-another, but if they are they have to have been married in the Catholic Church.
posted by davextreme at 12:21 PM on January 12, 2011
Response by poster: Thanks roomthreeseventeen. We want to do this at the Church my wife's family goes to. My wife and her two brothers were baptised there. So were all of our nieces and nephews. It's the family Church and they do require us to take this class.
posted by phelixshu at 12:21 PM on January 12, 2011
posted by phelixshu at 12:21 PM on January 12, 2011
In general, when religious institutions require classes like that, what happens is that people attend and sit while they're lectured about a bunch of responsibilities that they will choose to fulfill or not, depending on whether they're actually engaged with the institution in question.
The good news is that, in the Catholic tradition, the godparents are the ones who are responsible for connecting their godchildren to the church. So you're off the hook there.
posted by Sidhedevil at 12:22 PM on January 12, 2011
The good news is that, in the Catholic tradition, the godparents are the ones who are responsible for connecting their godchildren to the church. So you're off the hook there.
posted by Sidhedevil at 12:22 PM on January 12, 2011
Smile and nod and listen for the appropriate thing to say. Then say it. If it's untrue then it doesn't hurt you at all to play along. A few hours of empty ritual is worth it for the family harmony and goodwill.
posted by norm at 12:34 PM on January 12, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by norm at 12:34 PM on January 12, 2011 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: Quick note: Looking back at my question I can see that some people might think that I'm beeing dissimissive of this whole process. I assure I am not. This is a big deal for my wife's family, and while I am not Catholic I understand how important this is to my family....and THAT is important to me. I was simply trying to bypass everything and just ask "what happens in the class". Apparently I could have done this better...I didn't.
posted by phelixshu at 12:38 PM on January 12, 2011
posted by phelixshu at 12:38 PM on January 12, 2011
Mod note: OP is not anonymous. If you have commentary that is not related to the baptism class, please use memail, thank you. Stay constructive, no more insults. Thank you.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 12:40 PM on January 12, 2011
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 12:40 PM on January 12, 2011
You will be asked if you plan to raise the child in the faith. If you're not planning to do that, then you may want to reconsider your plan to move forward with this.
posted by DWRoelands at 12:44 PM on January 12, 2011 [10 favorites]
posted by DWRoelands at 12:44 PM on January 12, 2011 [10 favorites]
If you're not planning on raising the children to be Catholic, you might want to clarify this with your wife's parents, i.e. make it explicitly clear to them that you are going to go through the motions but that it's just the baptism. Just so that there's no misunderstandings down the road.
Let's just say that I've heard people, from time to time, in households where there was religious-upbringing strife, play "the baptism card." In the sense of "you promised at the baptism." It seemed unpleasant. Just make sure you're not inadvertently making a bunch of promises that other people are going to be upset if you don't uphold later on.
Also, any chance of a non-Catholic baptism? My parents had a disagreement over baptisms and eventually it was agreed that my siblings and I get baptised at an Episcopal church, where things were apparently a bit more relaxed. YMMV.
posted by Kadin2048 at 1:15 PM on January 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
Let's just say that I've heard people, from time to time, in households where there was religious-upbringing strife, play "the baptism card." In the sense of "you promised at the baptism." It seemed unpleasant. Just make sure you're not inadvertently making a bunch of promises that other people are going to be upset if you don't uphold later on.
Also, any chance of a non-Catholic baptism? My parents had a disagreement over baptisms and eventually it was agreed that my siblings and I get baptised at an Episcopal church, where things were apparently a bit more relaxed. YMMV.
posted by Kadin2048 at 1:15 PM on January 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
You will be asked if you plan to raise the child in the faith. If you're not planning to do that, then you may want to reconsider your plan to move forward with this.
This may not necessarily be "a dealbreaker", though. My brother had my niece baptized in a Catholic mass, but I'm pretty sure she's not being actively raised in any particular faith. (My brother would probably identify as Catholic, but that has more to do with what we were raised in, and nothing to do with his current practices.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:22 PM on January 12, 2011
This may not necessarily be "a dealbreaker", though. My brother had my niece baptized in a Catholic mass, but I'm pretty sure she's not being actively raised in any particular faith. (My brother would probably identify as Catholic, but that has more to do with what we were raised in, and nothing to do with his current practices.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:22 PM on January 12, 2011
The good news is that, in the Catholic tradition, the godparents are the ones who are responsible for connecting their godchildren to the church. So you're off the hook there.
This is actually not true.
The rite (which you can read here) requires that the parents ask for their child to be baptized and then the parents are asked the following:
If only one parent is Catholic, then only that parent makes the profession of faith. The Godparents have to be Catholic. (There only has to be one, but if there are two they have to be of opposite genders.) A non-Catholic can be part of the ceremony as a witness, but not as a godparent properly speaking.
Part of the purpose for the "class" is to make sure in advance that you actually plan to raise the child as a Catholic, because Catholic canon law provides :
This is actually not true.
The rite (which you can read here) requires that the parents ask for their child to be baptized and then the parents are asked the following:
The celebrant [priest or deacon] speaks to the parents in these or similar words:Then, the parents and the godparents make the renunciation of sin and profession of faith on behalf of the child:
You have asked to have your child baptized. In doing so you are accepting the responsibility of training him (her) in the practice of the faith. It will be your duty to bring him (her) up to keep God's commandments as Christ taught us, by loving God and our neighbor. Do you clearly understand what you are undertaking?
Parents: We do.
Renunciation of Sin and Profession of FaithAmong the important parts is "the holy catholic Church", since that's where you're promising on behalf of the child to believe in all the teachings of the Catholic Church, not just the ones listed in the ceremony (which is important if, say, you believe the ones explicitly mentioned but reject the authority of the Pope).
The celebrant speaks to the parents and godparents in these words:
Dear parents and godparents: You have come here to present this child for baptism. By water and the Holy Spirit he (she) is to receive the gift of new life from God, who is love.
On your part, you must make it your constant care to bring him (her) up in the practice of the faith. See that the divine life which God gives him (her) is kept safe from the poison of sin, to grow always stronger in his (her) heart.
If your faith makes you ready to accept this responsibility, renew now the vows of your own baptism. Reject sin; profess your faith in Christ Jesus. This is the faith of the Church. This is the faith in which this child is about to be baptized.
The celebrant questions the parents and godparents [choosing option A or B]:
A. Celebrant: Do you reject Satan?
Parents and Godparents: I do.
Celebrant: And all his works?
Parents and Godparents: I do.
B. Celebrant: Do you reject sin, so as to live in the freedom of God's children?
Parents and Godparents: I do.
Celebrant: Do you reject the glamor of evil, and refuse to be mastered by sin?
Parents and Godparents: I do.
Celebrant:Do you reject Satan, father of sin and prince of darkness?
Parents and Godparents: I do.
According to circumstances, this second form may be expressed with greater precision by the conferences of bishops, especially in places where it is necessary for the parents and godparents to reject superstitious and magical practices used with children.
Next the celebrant asks for the threefold profession of faith from the parents and godparents:
Celebrant: Do you believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth?
Parents and Godparents: I do.
Celebrant: Do you believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was born of the Virgin Mary, was crucified, died, and was buried, rose from the dead, and is now seated at the right hand of the Father?
Parents and Godparents: I do.
Celebrant: Do you believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting?
Parents and Godparents: I do.
The celebrant and the congregation give their assent to this profession of faith:
Celebrant: This is our faith. This is the faith of the Church. We are proud to profess it, in Christ Jesus our Lord.
All: Amen.
If desired, some other formula may be used instead, or a suitable song by which the community expresses its faith with a single voice.
Baptism
The celebrant invites the family to the font and questions the parents and godparents:
Celebrant: Is it your will that N. should be baptized in the faith of the Church, which we have all professed with you?
Parents and Godparents: It is.
If only one parent is Catholic, then only that parent makes the profession of faith. The Godparents have to be Catholic. (There only has to be one, but if there are two they have to be of opposite genders.) A non-Catholic can be part of the ceremony as a witness, but not as a godparent properly speaking.
Part of the purpose for the "class" is to make sure in advance that you actually plan to raise the child as a Catholic, because Catholic canon law provides :
Can. 868 Section 2: there must be a founded hope that the infant will be brought up in the Catholic religion; if such hope is altogether lacking, the baptism is to be delayed according to the prescripts of particular law after the parents have been advised about the reason.posted by Jahaza at 1:22 PM on January 12, 2011 [6 favorites]
The class will explain the significance of baptism and what it means to bring your child up Catholic. There may be rules about baby names (e.g. not Lucifer) or about godparents (e.g. number, how many must be Catholic). They will go through the actual logistics of a baptism (who holds the baby, where the font will be).
Some places and priests are stricter than others about when baptisms can take place (e.g. in Sunday mass, and/or in a group ceremony), and naming and godparent rules. Although the rules are not technically set by each parish, sometimes it work out a bit that way.
Since it sounds like you're set on this particular parish, suck it up and work within whatever rules they've got. Even if those rules are different to what you've read elsewhere.
It will be fine. You won't be the only non-Catholic they'll have ever dealt with. And lots of Catholics are not all that up on baptism since it mostly only comes up when you have a baby, so even if you're the only non-Catholic in the class you probably won't be the only person who doesn't know much about it.
posted by plonkee at 1:33 PM on January 12, 2011
Some places and priests are stricter than others about when baptisms can take place (e.g. in Sunday mass, and/or in a group ceremony), and naming and godparent rules. Although the rules are not technically set by each parish, sometimes it work out a bit that way.
Since it sounds like you're set on this particular parish, suck it up and work within whatever rules they've got. Even if those rules are different to what you've read elsewhere.
It will be fine. You won't be the only non-Catholic they'll have ever dealt with. And lots of Catholics are not all that up on baptism since it mostly only comes up when you have a baby, so even if you're the only non-Catholic in the class you probably won't be the only person who doesn't know much about it.
posted by plonkee at 1:33 PM on January 12, 2011
While one godparent MUST be Catholic and the second godparent/sponsor is supposed to at least be Christian, my priest let us have my Jewish BFF as the second sponsor. She obviously just didn't participate in the Jesus parts, but I find it difficult to think of anyone else in my life who would make as sincere an effort to see my child was raised Catholic than she would, because she knows what it means to me. No problem.
We were also supposed to take the class, but we ended up having a chat with the priest instead. (I have two degrees in theology and wrote my master's thesis on Catholic liturgy and helped edit a book on recent developments in Baptismal theology -- we have this problem where when I have to go to these classes, I can't stop correcting the teachers when they oversimplify things or TEACH THEM JUST PLAIN WRONG, so I think my husband is pretty desperate not to repeat our pre-Cana experience. It'll be awesome when my kids have to start CCD.) The class will probably mostly be about what the sacrament means (and half of what they tell you will probably be next door to correct, but still wrong), both in terms of the theology of it and the practical commitment you're making, and some information about what the particular church does, ceremony-wise, for baptisms. (For example, our priest likes to schedule about 10 minutes after baby eats, so enough time to burp but not enough time to poop, so he usually doesn't get decorated and the baby often sleeps through the whole process; if you don't have a very firm schedule, they ask you to "top up" the baby not long before the baptism. Etc.) Some churches do them during the Mass, some after, some schedule them on whatever day as a whole separate ceremony.
Anyway, a lot of the "musts" depend on the flexibility of the priest.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 1:49 PM on January 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
We were also supposed to take the class, but we ended up having a chat with the priest instead. (I have two degrees in theology and wrote my master's thesis on Catholic liturgy and helped edit a book on recent developments in Baptismal theology -- we have this problem where when I have to go to these classes, I can't stop correcting the teachers when they oversimplify things or TEACH THEM JUST PLAIN WRONG, so I think my husband is pretty desperate not to repeat our pre-Cana experience. It'll be awesome when my kids have to start CCD.) The class will probably mostly be about what the sacrament means (and half of what they tell you will probably be next door to correct, but still wrong), both in terms of the theology of it and the practical commitment you're making, and some information about what the particular church does, ceremony-wise, for baptisms. (For example, our priest likes to schedule about 10 minutes after baby eats, so enough time to burp but not enough time to poop, so he usually doesn't get decorated and the baby often sleeps through the whole process; if you don't have a very firm schedule, they ask you to "top up" the baby not long before the baptism. Etc.) Some churches do them during the Mass, some after, some schedule them on whatever day as a whole separate ceremony.
Anyway, a lot of the "musts" depend on the flexibility of the priest.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 1:49 PM on January 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
Our class was maybe 20 minutes about the sacrament of Baptism in general, then 20 minutes about all the documentation they required from us (reading word for word from a handout), followed by a lecture on how much "donation" was expected (one of many reasons why our children's baptism was the last time we attended Mass at that parish).
posted by candyland at 3:06 PM on January 12, 2011
posted by candyland at 3:06 PM on January 12, 2011
My dad was raised Catholic, but was pretty sick of it by the time I came along, and my mother wasn't. I got baptized Catholic basically to shut my grandmother up (she would have never stopped crying otherwise), but I could count on one hand the number of times I've been in a Catholic church since. My Catholic aunt and uncle were my godparents, but did nothing.
All things considered, you can promise what the hell ever during the ceremony, I suspect, because the Catholic Church isn't going to be checking up on you later to make sure you're conforming. However, I suspect you'd better jump through all of the hoops ahead of time because that's where they will be checking on your dedication to The Church.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:58 PM on January 12, 2011
All things considered, you can promise what the hell ever during the ceremony, I suspect, because the Catholic Church isn't going to be checking up on you later to make sure you're conforming. However, I suspect you'd better jump through all of the hoops ahead of time because that's where they will be checking on your dedication to The Church.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:58 PM on January 12, 2011
Thanks, Jahaza. I appreciate the correction! Flagging my own comment as "noise" now.
(See, I think I know about these things because I was raised Catholic--I'm much better at Protestant doctrines because I have to look them up. Dunning-Kruger Syndrome.)
posted by Sidhedevil at 8:42 PM on January 12, 2011
(See, I think I know about these things because I was raised Catholic--I'm much better at Protestant doctrines because I have to look them up. Dunning-Kruger Syndrome.)
posted by Sidhedevil at 8:42 PM on January 12, 2011
"My wife's parents are Catholic and they want us to baptise our daughter. Fine, whatever..."
I would say, stop at this point. It's up to you if you baptise your child or not. If you're not Catholic, you don't have to.
If your wife is Catholic she does have an obligation to raise her children in the Faith, and it would be a supportive step to help her do that. It would be a lifelong comittment on your part, so consider carefully.
If you have doubts, raise them directly with the family and with the priest. Don't pretend to be or believe something if it's not true. That is a disservice to yourself and to the Church.
posted by KMH at 1:33 AM on March 9, 2011
I would say, stop at this point. It's up to you if you baptise your child or not. If you're not Catholic, you don't have to.
If your wife is Catholic she does have an obligation to raise her children in the Faith, and it would be a supportive step to help her do that. It would be a lifelong comittment on your part, so consider carefully.
If you have doubts, raise them directly with the family and with the priest. Don't pretend to be or believe something if it's not true. That is a disservice to yourself and to the Church.
posted by KMH at 1:33 AM on March 9, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:17 PM on January 12, 2011