Is a friend in need really a friend indeed, or just shark bait?
January 5, 2011 12:26 PM Subscribe
How can I pick better friends and in turn be a better friend?
I'm not sure if the problem here is that I'm a magnet for dysfunctional people, or that I get my feelings hurt too easily, or both.
I'm a 40-ish woman and I've had recurring issues with friendships that cause me to withdraw from my friends and drop them. Here are some examples:
When friends confide in me, I do my best to provide nonjudgmental listening and try to remember to say "would you like my opinion/advice?" first before offering it. Sometimes I ask if they are seeking a listening ear or constructive help, and I give them what they are asking for.
Unfortunately, when I confide in others, I often get a barrage of unasked for advice that seems really judgmental. I end up getting the feeling that these friends are having schadenfreude at my expense and that their advice is meant to put me in my place, which is lower than them.
Sometimes all I have to do is just tell them what's going on in my life and they seem to think I need them to tell me how to manage my affairs. I'm petite and young-looking and the worst offenders are people 10-25 years older than myself. I wonder if my appearance is triggering their inner know-it-all grownup?
Things that have really offended me have been being told I am codependent (and hit with a stream of phrasing culled from pop psychology self-help); that I have low self-esteem, and that I "should" do this or that.
I've actually heard the following things come out of the mouths of people who called themselves my friends:
In response to my announcement that I was reconciling with a BF, my friend gave a dramatic sigh and eyeroll and said, "you're not gonna be a doormat, are you?"
OK, did she or did she not just call me a doormat? Insulting!
This same friend told me "your clothes are so dowdy." She offered to help me shop for nicer clothes. I could probably write a book about this person's rudeness. After several years of this sort of thing I just cut off contact with her.
I was separated from this same BF for a while and another person said to me, "well, it's good you don't have kids with him like [other friend] who flaked out on a good man who just wanted to be part of her family." WTF??? I hardly "flaked out." She just assumed I had barely given the separation any thought, and that there was no reason for it.
While I was going through grief over the separation (which I thought was going to be permanent) this same friend told me I was obsessed with myself and should stop navel-gazing (I was doing a lot of therapy and journaling and sorting through childhood pictures) and volunteer.
Both of these friends had their own issues but I NEVER was mean to them about anything I felt they had mishandled.
I cut this other person off too. When I look back on my friendship history, I see this pattern repeated.
Recently I was getting to know someone but I cut them off before we became better friends because I was extremely gun-shy.
She asked questions I felt were extremely intrusive, even though she opened up about herself and was really nice. There were times when I felt like I was on Barbara Walters. I kept saying, "I'd rather not say," and she'd just laugh and say, "oh, come on!" I felt this was a red flag.
I've become quite a hermit lately. Things are not going well for my relationship and I'm moving out of the city I live in anyway. I'm expecting that a mere statement that I'm breaking up with the BF will be greeted by statements like "I told you so" or other judgmental things. Plus, I don't want people to see me all heartbroken like this because in the past that's been like blood to the sharks, and I think they're dolphins til it's way too late.
So when I move, how to I recognize toxic people? How do I avoid being too sensitive and recognize when it's that and not someone being mean? How do I open up and be vulnerable to other people without seeming like the little girl who just doesn't know how to get her life together? I'm not that, but apparently that's what I project.
I'm already in therapy and plan to continue when I move.
I'm not sure if the problem here is that I'm a magnet for dysfunctional people, or that I get my feelings hurt too easily, or both.
I'm a 40-ish woman and I've had recurring issues with friendships that cause me to withdraw from my friends and drop them. Here are some examples:
When friends confide in me, I do my best to provide nonjudgmental listening and try to remember to say "would you like my opinion/advice?" first before offering it. Sometimes I ask if they are seeking a listening ear or constructive help, and I give them what they are asking for.
Unfortunately, when I confide in others, I often get a barrage of unasked for advice that seems really judgmental. I end up getting the feeling that these friends are having schadenfreude at my expense and that their advice is meant to put me in my place, which is lower than them.
Sometimes all I have to do is just tell them what's going on in my life and they seem to think I need them to tell me how to manage my affairs. I'm petite and young-looking and the worst offenders are people 10-25 years older than myself. I wonder if my appearance is triggering their inner know-it-all grownup?
Things that have really offended me have been being told I am codependent (and hit with a stream of phrasing culled from pop psychology self-help); that I have low self-esteem, and that I "should" do this or that.
I've actually heard the following things come out of the mouths of people who called themselves my friends:
In response to my announcement that I was reconciling with a BF, my friend gave a dramatic sigh and eyeroll and said, "you're not gonna be a doormat, are you?"
OK, did she or did she not just call me a doormat? Insulting!
This same friend told me "your clothes are so dowdy." She offered to help me shop for nicer clothes. I could probably write a book about this person's rudeness. After several years of this sort of thing I just cut off contact with her.
I was separated from this same BF for a while and another person said to me, "well, it's good you don't have kids with him like [other friend] who flaked out on a good man who just wanted to be part of her family." WTF??? I hardly "flaked out." She just assumed I had barely given the separation any thought, and that there was no reason for it.
While I was going through grief over the separation (which I thought was going to be permanent) this same friend told me I was obsessed with myself and should stop navel-gazing (I was doing a lot of therapy and journaling and sorting through childhood pictures) and volunteer.
Both of these friends had their own issues but I NEVER was mean to them about anything I felt they had mishandled.
I cut this other person off too. When I look back on my friendship history, I see this pattern repeated.
Recently I was getting to know someone but I cut them off before we became better friends because I was extremely gun-shy.
She asked questions I felt were extremely intrusive, even though she opened up about herself and was really nice. There were times when I felt like I was on Barbara Walters. I kept saying, "I'd rather not say," and she'd just laugh and say, "oh, come on!" I felt this was a red flag.
I've become quite a hermit lately. Things are not going well for my relationship and I'm moving out of the city I live in anyway. I'm expecting that a mere statement that I'm breaking up with the BF will be greeted by statements like "I told you so" or other judgmental things. Plus, I don't want people to see me all heartbroken like this because in the past that's been like blood to the sharks, and I think they're dolphins til it's way too late.
So when I move, how to I recognize toxic people? How do I avoid being too sensitive and recognize when it's that and not someone being mean? How do I open up and be vulnerable to other people without seeming like the little girl who just doesn't know how to get her life together? I'm not that, but apparently that's what I project.
I'm already in therapy and plan to continue when I move.
Huh, since you're already in therapy it sounds like you've got a good first step. If I were in your situation I would do a couple of things next.
1) I would attempt to identify what (if anything) these "toxic" friends that I had cut off had in common, had we bonded over the same things, what need were they fulfilling for me that I had wanted to be around them
2) I would try and identify any positive friends that I have and try to identify the traits that are different in them then in the "toxic" friends.
In the future you can see if starting a conversation with "I'm not really looking for advice, but I would really appreciate having someone listen to me for a few minutes" helps head off unwanted input, works with some people and not others.
posted by dadici at 12:34 PM on January 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
1) I would attempt to identify what (if anything) these "toxic" friends that I had cut off had in common, had we bonded over the same things, what need were they fulfilling for me that I had wanted to be around them
2) I would try and identify any positive friends that I have and try to identify the traits that are different in them then in the "toxic" friends.
In the future you can see if starting a conversation with "I'm not really looking for advice, but I would really appreciate having someone listen to me for a few minutes" helps head off unwanted input, works with some people and not others.
posted by dadici at 12:34 PM on January 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: In response to my announcement that I was reconciling with a BF, my friend gave a dramatic sigh and eyeroll and said, "you're not gonna be a doormat, are you?"
OK, did she or did she not just call me a doormat? Insulting!
No, she didn't. She expressed concern in a frank way that you hadn't stood up for yourself in the previous incarnation of your relationship.
This same friend told me "your clothes are so dowdy." She offered to help me shop for nicer clothes.
She offered her frank opinion about her clothes, at which you are free to disagree and decline.
I was separated from this same BF for a while and another person said to me, "well, it's good you don't have kids with him like [other friend] who flaked out on a good man who just wanted to be part of her family." WTF??? I hardly "flaked out." She just assumed I had barely given the separation any thought, and that there was no reason for it.
She wasn't saying you flaked out, she said the other person flaked out. This was a diss on the other person, not you.
While I was going through grief over the separation (which I thought was going to be permanent) this same friend told me I was obsessed with myself and should stop navel-gazing (I was doing a lot of therapy and journaling and sorting through childhood pictures) and volunteer.
Given how sensitive you seem to the other stuff, I'm betting she gave the very frequent advice given to people going through breakups and grief that they get out and volunteer and help others and you took it the wrong way.
It sounds like your insecurity plays into you reading judgments when none are meant, or reading insults when something is not couched as nicely as you'd prefer it to be.
posted by Anonymous at 12:40 PM on January 5, 2011
OK, did she or did she not just call me a doormat? Insulting!
No, she didn't. She expressed concern in a frank way that you hadn't stood up for yourself in the previous incarnation of your relationship.
This same friend told me "your clothes are so dowdy." She offered to help me shop for nicer clothes.
She offered her frank opinion about her clothes, at which you are free to disagree and decline.
I was separated from this same BF for a while and another person said to me, "well, it's good you don't have kids with him like [other friend] who flaked out on a good man who just wanted to be part of her family." WTF??? I hardly "flaked out." She just assumed I had barely given the separation any thought, and that there was no reason for it.
She wasn't saying you flaked out, she said the other person flaked out. This was a diss on the other person, not you.
While I was going through grief over the separation (which I thought was going to be permanent) this same friend told me I was obsessed with myself and should stop navel-gazing (I was doing a lot of therapy and journaling and sorting through childhood pictures) and volunteer.
Given how sensitive you seem to the other stuff, I'm betting she gave the very frequent advice given to people going through breakups and grief that they get out and volunteer and help others and you took it the wrong way.
It sounds like your insecurity plays into you reading judgments when none are meant, or reading insults when something is not couched as nicely as you'd prefer it to be.
posted by Anonymous at 12:40 PM on January 5, 2011
Your friends don't sound particularly mean or harsh...they sound pretty normal, a bit on the blunt side, whereas you veer towards "highly sensitive."
It seems like you're in a fragile place right now where you are taking their comments very personally.
Do you tell your friends that your comments have hurt you? Do you give them a chance to explain their intention behind their words?
posted by The ____ of Justice at 12:42 PM on January 5, 2011 [6 favorites]
It seems like you're in a fragile place right now where you are taking their comments very personally.
Do you tell your friends that your comments have hurt you? Do you give them a chance to explain their intention behind their words?
posted by The ____ of Justice at 12:42 PM on January 5, 2011 [6 favorites]
Agreeing with others that you seem very willing to attribute malice where perhaps insensitivity is the actual crime. When you move and meet new potential friends, present yourself in a positive manner while still being honest. You can say you've been through a recent breakup, but people don't need the sort of details that will turn anyone in to a shark. Assume that others are as kind as you are, but don't chum the waters, either.
posted by ldthomps at 12:48 PM on January 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by ldthomps at 12:48 PM on January 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
It could be that your friends perceive you as overly sensitive and are trying to toughen you up. You sound extremely conscientious, and are carefully applying the norms and rules of therapeutic relationships to your friend relationships in the hopes that they will treat you in the same way. Even though it may seem obvious to you that this is how people should behave towards each other, lots of people don't share the therapy worldview. So it could be a culture clash more than you being a magnet for toxic people.
Things that have really offended me have been being told I am codependent (and hit with a stream of phrasing culled from pop psychology self-help); that I have low self-esteem, and that I "should" do this or that.
This part sounds like your friends would fit in great answering AskMe relationship questions! :P
posted by AlsoMike at 1:02 PM on January 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
Things that have really offended me have been being told I am codependent (and hit with a stream of phrasing culled from pop psychology self-help); that I have low self-esteem, and that I "should" do this or that.
This part sounds like your friends would fit in great answering AskMe relationship questions! :P
posted by AlsoMike at 1:02 PM on January 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
My only advice (other than agreeing with those above) would be to consider that just because you are the type of person to ask someone if they are ready for some advice or not doesn't mean you should expect the same behaviour of others.
In terms of addressing sensitivity isuses, I also used to be like this. Now I tend to find if I assume people have good intentions until I have proof of the opposite then things go more smoothly and drama free in my life.
I'm afraid that being tired of "unasked for advice that seems really judgmental" and coming to ask seems like a recipe for disaster.
posted by Admira at 1:03 PM on January 5, 2011 [3 favorites]
In terms of addressing sensitivity isuses, I also used to be like this. Now I tend to find if I assume people have good intentions until I have proof of the opposite then things go more smoothly and drama free in my life.
I'm afraid that being tired of "unasked for advice that seems really judgmental" and coming to ask seems like a recipe for disaster.
posted by Admira at 1:03 PM on January 5, 2011 [3 favorites]
On reading your question I was struck by the fact that, with the exception of the clothes comment, most of your examples center around your relationship with your boyfriend. Is it possible that this is one area about which you feel defensive, and are more likely to interpret comments as being judgmental? YMMV, but I know my friendships were at their most difficult when I was in an on-off relationship that I myself felt very conflicted about.
posted by stellaluna at 1:03 PM on January 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by stellaluna at 1:03 PM on January 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
Your friends actually sound like people who have your best interests at heart and want to help you, and trust your friendship enough to be honest with you. It's very tempting to listen to friends' problems and attempt to provide solutions, when sometimes all they want is a friend to listen and sympathise. Sounds like you're already atuned to that, which probably makes you a very good friend, but it sounds like many of your friends are not, and may need a little "coaching". (Speaking as someone who has those tendencies herself and is lucky enough to have friends willing to provide the necessary "coaching"!)
But be wary about constantly wanting a shoulder to cry on without letting your friends provide advice / suggestions. This might make you come across as a bit of a drama queen who doesn't really want to find a solution or a way forward - and might explain some of the eye-rolling type comments from friends with less patience than you. Or might make you come across as too self-reliant and might make them feel that the friendship is a bit one-sided (they listen to your advice but you won't trust them enough to listen to theirs).
All the comments you mention can be taken negatively or positively - you've chosen to take a negative interpretation. Given that they are people who consider themselves to be your friends, it might be worth trying to find a positive interpretation for the comments they make - the definition of a friend is someone who cares about you so the default position should be that what they're saying is said with love. Even if it comes across as a bit blunt.
Sure, there are toxic people out there, and they are to be avoided. People who constantly put you down (they probably have self-esteem issues), or people who are judgmental about your choices (they may be very self-centred and feel that your choice is a direct judgment on their own life choices).
But most friends aren't like that. So don't stop being open and trusting with people who make it clear that they consider you to be their friend. When getting to know people, opening up and being vulnerable is a sign of trust, and a sign that the friendship is becoming stronger, not a sign of weakness.
Also worth pointing out that no-one is perfect. The ideal is to have a group of friends that cover all the bases. It's great to have a friend who is always there as a shoulder to cry on. But it's also great to have a friend who says "you need to stop wallowing - you should come to this party with me on Saturday night!". And a friend who will tell you bluntly that you've put on weight and offer to go running with you.
Good luck.
posted by finding.perdita at 1:10 PM on January 5, 2011 [13 favorites]
But be wary about constantly wanting a shoulder to cry on without letting your friends provide advice / suggestions. This might make you come across as a bit of a drama queen who doesn't really want to find a solution or a way forward - and might explain some of the eye-rolling type comments from friends with less patience than you. Or might make you come across as too self-reliant and might make them feel that the friendship is a bit one-sided (they listen to your advice but you won't trust them enough to listen to theirs).
All the comments you mention can be taken negatively or positively - you've chosen to take a negative interpretation. Given that they are people who consider themselves to be your friends, it might be worth trying to find a positive interpretation for the comments they make - the definition of a friend is someone who cares about you so the default position should be that what they're saying is said with love. Even if it comes across as a bit blunt.
Sure, there are toxic people out there, and they are to be avoided. People who constantly put you down (they probably have self-esteem issues), or people who are judgmental about your choices (they may be very self-centred and feel that your choice is a direct judgment on their own life choices).
But most friends aren't like that. So don't stop being open and trusting with people who make it clear that they consider you to be their friend. When getting to know people, opening up and being vulnerable is a sign of trust, and a sign that the friendship is becoming stronger, not a sign of weakness.
Also worth pointing out that no-one is perfect. The ideal is to have a group of friends that cover all the bases. It's great to have a friend who is always there as a shoulder to cry on. But it's also great to have a friend who says "you need to stop wallowing - you should come to this party with me on Saturday night!". And a friend who will tell you bluntly that you've put on weight and offer to go running with you.
Good luck.
posted by finding.perdita at 1:10 PM on January 5, 2011 [13 favorites]
It sounds like you're doing your best to treat your friends the way you want them to treat you, but they aren't picking up on it. Have you tried explicitly articulating what you want? Like, in the moment, telling them that what they just said hurt your feelings and asking them to communicate differently?
posted by prefpara at 1:13 PM on January 5, 2011
posted by prefpara at 1:13 PM on January 5, 2011
Some people are a little rude to everyone as a defense mechanism. Some people are rude without realizing it, either because their friends take it in stride or because they just don't think before speaking. And some people are just genuinely malicious. Learning to tell the difference will help you.
The people in these examples might have been genuinely rude to you, but it's hard to tell. The examples seem sort of weak - but, you know, it's possible that some of them are on the rude side and you're taking things too personally. It's not a case of one of you acting the "right" way, more of a case of your differences in sensitivity being a little too far apart.
"well, it's good you don't have kids with him like [other friend] who flaked out on a good man who just wanted to be part of her family."
She's not implying you "flaked out." This is more like "Good thing you don't have kids. [Friend] has kids. [Detail/judgment about friend's situation.]" She's not judging you, but she is judging the other friend.
Which brings me to this: pay attention to what people say about others. It's a good and reliable measure. Do they complain about people they consider friends?
posted by Metroid Baby at 1:15 PM on January 5, 2011
The people in these examples might have been genuinely rude to you, but it's hard to tell. The examples seem sort of weak - but, you know, it's possible that some of them are on the rude side and you're taking things too personally. It's not a case of one of you acting the "right" way, more of a case of your differences in sensitivity being a little too far apart.
"well, it's good you don't have kids with him like [other friend] who flaked out on a good man who just wanted to be part of her family."
She's not implying you "flaked out." This is more like "Good thing you don't have kids. [Friend] has kids. [Detail/judgment about friend's situation.]" She's not judging you, but she is judging the other friend.
Which brings me to this: pay attention to what people say about others. It's a good and reliable measure. Do they complain about people they consider friends?
posted by Metroid Baby at 1:15 PM on January 5, 2011
Don’t know if this will help, but I tend to observe pple a lot before I decide whether I will or will not become friends. One of the things that I observe is: How do they treat other people? What are his or her personal values? For example, if a potential friend spends 10 minutes critiquing, pointing, and laughing or commenting on other pple’s clothes, well, I can’t see any commonalities and why will I be friends with that person? So you can make observations on how they view/treat others for some of those things.
I wanted to flip this back on you, OP, and it is not meant as a critique. Do you spend a lot of time telling everyone around you about the bad times you have with your SO? Both I and other friends have sometimes gotten into trouble after we hear “Bob is mean and is a jerk,” “Bob cheated on me,” “Bob threatened me with a gun” followed by “Do you think Bob and I should get married?” The problem is that sometimes if only the negative sides about some other person are shared, and then your friends (who care about you) are asked “what is your opinion,” it is challenging not to feel that you may put their friend in danger if you don’t say anything. Anyway, just a perspective, that may or may not apply to you. Okay that example was extreme, but ...ask yourself if you are sharing just the negative times, and then expect your friends to cheer when you return to that state.
Finally, you could develop friends specifically for certain things and that you certain activities with, but don’t share everything with them, especially if there are domains you think that you are sensitive about – good luck.
posted by Wolfster at 1:19 PM on January 5, 2011
I wanted to flip this back on you, OP, and it is not meant as a critique. Do you spend a lot of time telling everyone around you about the bad times you have with your SO? Both I and other friends have sometimes gotten into trouble after we hear “Bob is mean and is a jerk,” “Bob cheated on me,” “Bob threatened me with a gun” followed by “Do you think Bob and I should get married?” The problem is that sometimes if only the negative sides about some other person are shared, and then your friends (who care about you) are asked “what is your opinion,” it is challenging not to feel that you may put their friend in danger if you don’t say anything. Anyway, just a perspective, that may or may not apply to you. Okay that example was extreme, but ...ask yourself if you are sharing just the negative times, and then expect your friends to cheer when you return to that state.
Finally, you could develop friends specifically for certain things and that you certain activities with, but don’t share everything with them, especially if there are domains you think that you are sensitive about – good luck.
posted by Wolfster at 1:19 PM on January 5, 2011
I'm going to be a dissenting voice here, of sorts.
I gotta say, I'm surprised at the number of people who have said that you were the sensitive one when your friend said that your clothes were "dowdy", or when you were taken aback when you shared what I"m sure you thought was some good news with a friend and they rolled their eyes and said "you're not gonna be a doormat, are you?"
Others may have a point in that they may have wanted your best interests at heart, but good GOD they could have expressed it in a better way, and you are indeed within your rights to have a "what the hell was THAT?" reaction. Your friend may have meant well when they said your clothes were "dowdy", but putting it THAT way is just plain rude.
That said, though -- I do agree that completely cutting them out of your life and calling them "toxic", on just that evidence alone, may be have been pushing it a little too far. If I had a friend who told me "you look so dowdy all the time," I wouldn't cut them out of my life all "Omigod you BITCH!". But I would call them on the way they said it, even in a jokey sort of way ("Wha? What's next, you gonna tell me my roots are showing...?...") I've had friends express concern over my choice of boyfriend, but they were HELLA nicer about it than to roll their eyes and say "I hope you're not going to be a doormat." It was more like, "you know, I gotta say that I'm surprised that you're saying this, because in the past you've said X, Y, and Z -- utlimately it's your choice, but I'm still a little concerned."
It is possible for a friend to express concern for you without saying it that brusquely, and your being taken aback by the way they phrased it is not a sign that you are "sensitive." However -- it's also possible for you to tell them "you could have been way more supportive, chica" without going all the way into "get out of my life".
So I think I'm kind of in the middle of everyone here; and I'm honestly surprised how many comments there've been implying that you were oversensitive about some of the things they'd said. Because, dayum.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:34 PM on January 5, 2011 [10 favorites]
I gotta say, I'm surprised at the number of people who have said that you were the sensitive one when your friend said that your clothes were "dowdy", or when you were taken aback when you shared what I"m sure you thought was some good news with a friend and they rolled their eyes and said "you're not gonna be a doormat, are you?"
Others may have a point in that they may have wanted your best interests at heart, but good GOD they could have expressed it in a better way, and you are indeed within your rights to have a "what the hell was THAT?" reaction. Your friend may have meant well when they said your clothes were "dowdy", but putting it THAT way is just plain rude.
That said, though -- I do agree that completely cutting them out of your life and calling them "toxic", on just that evidence alone, may be have been pushing it a little too far. If I had a friend who told me "you look so dowdy all the time," I wouldn't cut them out of my life all "Omigod you BITCH!". But I would call them on the way they said it, even in a jokey sort of way ("Wha? What's next, you gonna tell me my roots are showing...?...") I've had friends express concern over my choice of boyfriend, but they were HELLA nicer about it than to roll their eyes and say "I hope you're not going to be a doormat." It was more like, "you know, I gotta say that I'm surprised that you're saying this, because in the past you've said X, Y, and Z -- utlimately it's your choice, but I'm still a little concerned."
It is possible for a friend to express concern for you without saying it that brusquely, and your being taken aback by the way they phrased it is not a sign that you are "sensitive." However -- it's also possible for you to tell them "you could have been way more supportive, chica" without going all the way into "get out of my life".
So I think I'm kind of in the middle of everyone here; and I'm honestly surprised how many comments there've been implying that you were oversensitive about some of the things they'd said. Because, dayum.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:34 PM on January 5, 2011 [10 favorites]
I'm with the Empress -- it's possible you're sensitive, but your friends are mean.
Who are you confiding in? Maybe one solution is to be more careful about figuring out whether you can trust someone before sharing sensitive information. Some friends are great for a trip to the mall, but not for sharing relationship confidences.
Also, how are you reacting when your friends treat you this way? Do you call them on it? EmpressCallipygos (love that name) said she'd joke about it -- I'm not so good at that, but I'd let my friend know that they hurt my feelings ("Hey, why are you rolling your eyes like that? I'm really happy BF and I are getting back together.") I would guess your friends' reactions didn't come out of nowhere and they routinely aren't very nice to you. Don't put up with it. When you see an early sign that someone is going to be rude and judgmental, stop pursuing a close friendship with that person.
posted by chickenmagazine at 1:54 PM on January 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
Who are you confiding in? Maybe one solution is to be more careful about figuring out whether you can trust someone before sharing sensitive information. Some friends are great for a trip to the mall, but not for sharing relationship confidences.
Also, how are you reacting when your friends treat you this way? Do you call them on it? EmpressCallipygos (love that name) said she'd joke about it -- I'm not so good at that, but I'd let my friend know that they hurt my feelings ("Hey, why are you rolling your eyes like that? I'm really happy BF and I are getting back together.") I would guess your friends' reactions didn't come out of nowhere and they routinely aren't very nice to you. Don't put up with it. When you see an early sign that someone is going to be rude and judgmental, stop pursuing a close friendship with that person.
posted by chickenmagazine at 1:54 PM on January 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
Empress--I guess I would consider those comments pretty rude from acquaintances, but from very close, lifelong buddies, who I see as sister material, no. But I guess it's because I always feel that they have my best interests at heart...which I guess is the crux of the OP's issue here.
posted by The ____ of Justice at 1:58 PM on January 5, 2011
posted by The ____ of Justice at 1:58 PM on January 5, 2011
Things that have really offended me have been being told I am codependent
Is it possible to criticise you without you being offended? It sounds like you are interested in discovering things about yourself, by means of therapy and introspection. Here are your friends helping you with something that is difficult and that is clearly important to you, and you are offended by it.
To my mind, the very definition of a good friend is one who is able to offer criticism.
that seems really judgmental
Are you, in fact, perfect? Does light shine out of your arse? Should it? Does it upset you that you are not always perfect? Hell, I'm not and if one of my friends offers to help me buy clothes that suit me I will bite their arm off.
Conversely, criticism isn't some sign that you're an utter idiot who shouldn't be allowed to exist or that everybody hates you.
Here's an exercise for you. Next time some criticises you, say "Really? What makes you think that?". Then listen to what they say, and when they finish, just say "That's interesting, thanks for telling me".
posted by emilyw at 2:04 PM on January 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
Is it possible to criticise you without you being offended? It sounds like you are interested in discovering things about yourself, by means of therapy and introspection. Here are your friends helping you with something that is difficult and that is clearly important to you, and you are offended by it.
To my mind, the very definition of a good friend is one who is able to offer criticism.
that seems really judgmental
Are you, in fact, perfect? Does light shine out of your arse? Should it? Does it upset you that you are not always perfect? Hell, I'm not and if one of my friends offers to help me buy clothes that suit me I will bite their arm off.
Conversely, criticism isn't some sign that you're an utter idiot who shouldn't be allowed to exist or that everybody hates you.
Here's an exercise for you. Next time some criticises you, say "Really? What makes you think that?". Then listen to what they say, and when they finish, just say "That's interesting, thanks for telling me".
posted by emilyw at 2:04 PM on January 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
Tone of voice, hand gestures, and eye contact/facial expressions matter a lot for the statements you've mentioned. Your friend said "dowdy" not "ugh, I can't believe what terrible fashion sense you have, get out your wallet, I'm taking you to Macy's before the last man on earth realizes what a freak you are and rejects you for good." I'm super-sensitive, and I totally get how easy it is to feel ill-used by others, and I'm a lot happier now that I force myself not to take this stuff too harshly (it doesn't always work, but the "paste porn on her windows at 3am" people are still friends of mine, and they wouldn't be if I were determined to make every miscommunication and bad experience define my relationships with others.)
It doesn't really matter if you're overly sensitive. It does matter that you seem to keep leaping right to "I cut her out of my life" and not "I rolled my eyes and asked if she wanted to get some ice cream" or "so I said we should talk about this at a time when no one felt the need to say such harsh things" or whatever. Try the middle ground of pushing back, giving positive reinforcement to helpful friends, and treading cautiously before talking about your boyfriend issues with new people. It is healthy to have friends you just go to the mall and gab about bad TV shows with.
posted by SMPA at 2:05 PM on January 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
It doesn't really matter if you're overly sensitive. It does matter that you seem to keep leaping right to "I cut her out of my life" and not "I rolled my eyes and asked if she wanted to get some ice cream" or "so I said we should talk about this at a time when no one felt the need to say such harsh things" or whatever. Try the middle ground of pushing back, giving positive reinforcement to helpful friends, and treading cautiously before talking about your boyfriend issues with new people. It is healthy to have friends you just go to the mall and gab about bad TV shows with.
posted by SMPA at 2:05 PM on January 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
Empress--I guess I would consider those comments pretty rude from acquaintances, but from very close, lifelong buddies, who I see as sister material, no. But I guess it's because I always feel that they have my best interests at heart...which I guess is the crux of the OP's issue here.
For the record, I'd also have a problem with my close buddies phrasing things that bluntly. But that's just me, and I take your point -- that the closer friends can get away with putting things bluntly and being cruel to be kind.
However -- not everyone responds well to the cruel-to-be-kind approach, and there has to be that level of trust there first. And it's up to the OP to decide whether or not the friends who call her "dowdy" are yet at the point when they can say that and get away with it; and there is nothing wrong with the OP feeling that they're not allowed to get away with it yet, is my point. Well, it's half my point -- the other half of my point is that you can also enforce the "you don't get to say that to me yet" rule without terminating the friendship altogether.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:55 PM on January 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
For the record, I'd also have a problem with my close buddies phrasing things that bluntly. But that's just me, and I take your point -- that the closer friends can get away with putting things bluntly and being cruel to be kind.
However -- not everyone responds well to the cruel-to-be-kind approach, and there has to be that level of trust there first. And it's up to the OP to decide whether or not the friends who call her "dowdy" are yet at the point when they can say that and get away with it; and there is nothing wrong with the OP feeling that they're not allowed to get away with it yet, is my point. Well, it's half my point -- the other half of my point is that you can also enforce the "you don't get to say that to me yet" rule without terminating the friendship altogether.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:55 PM on January 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
The people around you aren't trying as hard as you are - or are not as sensitive as you are to the nuances you are describing. You can take that a few ways: either they are good people who are authentically more rough around the edges than you are - but mean very well, or they are going out of their way to needle you. I imagine most people are the first thing. You are sensitive to such subtle shifts - that's great and very possibly a product of being burned a few times. Meanwhile: not everyone is as sensitive. It doesn't necessarily mean that they don't care. My take? Don't drop people as easily. Keep in mind that many people aren't as careful YET are as caring and genuine. Only the style in which such is expressed is different. The bottom line is the same - maybe even better - they aren't becoming tripped up by subtle nuances because they are too busy assuming you can handle it and so continue with their style of friendship. Ideal? No. Real friend? Very likely.
posted by marimeko at 4:15 PM on January 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by marimeko at 4:15 PM on January 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
One time I was playing in a lacrosse game that we were losing, badly. I went to talk to my goalie to cheer her up and she said to me "what does it even matter whether I stop goals or not" and I said something like, "yeah, we're going to lose" (we were down like 18-0) "but still, we can do our best and attempt to even the score a bit!" After the game, we got reamed by the coach, and in the middle of her speech, she said something like "and I can't BELIEVE one of our CAPTAINS was out there telling her teammates we were going to lose this game, how disrespectful, rude" etc etc. My friend led me into saying something I normally wouldn't say, then got upset I said it.
Sorry for the long story. The point is, maybe you don't realize that you are setting your friends up for these kinds of "blunt" remarks. Did the "dowdy" comment really come out of thin air, or were you complaining that you were bored with your style until your friend finally said "okay, maybe you do dress a little dowdy, let's go shopping!" Unfortunately, a lot of people think that being a friend to someone is looking out for their best interests, which does not always mean sitting and listening non-judgmentally to the 20th rant about ____. At some point, most people will say "STOP! Look, you are in this situation because ___. Maybe you should look into that."
The fact that you consider these people toxic and cut them out of your life... wow. Of course you don't have to be friends with people you don't want to be friends with, but sometimes when a problem is happening over and over, you need to look at the constant variable, which seems to be you. Is it more likely that every person you initially like and get along with well enough to call a friend will eventually subject you to a "barrage of unasked for advice that seems really judgmental," advice that is meant to put you in your place, etc, or that the way your friends behave is a reaction to your actions?
posted by coupdefoudre at 10:55 AM on January 6, 2011 [2 favorites]
Sorry for the long story. The point is, maybe you don't realize that you are setting your friends up for these kinds of "blunt" remarks. Did the "dowdy" comment really come out of thin air, or were you complaining that you were bored with your style until your friend finally said "okay, maybe you do dress a little dowdy, let's go shopping!" Unfortunately, a lot of people think that being a friend to someone is looking out for their best interests, which does not always mean sitting and listening non-judgmentally to the 20th rant about ____. At some point, most people will say "STOP! Look, you are in this situation because ___. Maybe you should look into that."
The fact that you consider these people toxic and cut them out of your life... wow. Of course you don't have to be friends with people you don't want to be friends with, but sometimes when a problem is happening over and over, you need to look at the constant variable, which seems to be you. Is it more likely that every person you initially like and get along with well enough to call a friend will eventually subject you to a "barrage of unasked for advice that seems really judgmental," advice that is meant to put you in your place, etc, or that the way your friends behave is a reaction to your actions?
posted by coupdefoudre at 10:55 AM on January 6, 2011 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Ex:
In response to my announcement that I was reconciling with a BF, my friend gave a dramatic sigh and eyeroll and said, "you're not gonna be a doormat, are you?"
OK, did she or did she not just call me a doormat? Insulting!
No, she did not call you a doormat.
posted by ghharr at 12:30 PM on January 5, 2011 [8 favorites]