The pre-engagement family blessing: How can we make it comfortable for everyone?
January 3, 2011 3:48 PM Subscribe
The pre-engagement family blessing: How can we make it comfortable for everyone?
My boyfriend and I (both in our 30's) have been talking about getting married recently. We've spent lots of time with each other's families and everyone gets along. My parents expect a man to ask them for my hand in marriage. The problem with this is that my boyfriend doesn't like that tradition because I'm an independent adult and who to marry should be my choice alone.
His suggestion was that the four of us meet and ask for their blessing together.
Has anyone done this? How did it go? When both of you meet with the woman's parents, who asks for the blessing: the daughter or the suitor?
Did you work around the traditional asking of the parents in a different, yet still respectful way?
My boyfriend and I (both in our 30's) have been talking about getting married recently. We've spent lots of time with each other's families and everyone gets along. My parents expect a man to ask them for my hand in marriage. The problem with this is that my boyfriend doesn't like that tradition because I'm an independent adult and who to marry should be my choice alone.
His suggestion was that the four of us meet and ask for their blessing together.
Has anyone done this? How did it go? When both of you meet with the woman's parents, who asks for the blessing: the daughter or the suitor?
Did you work around the traditional asking of the parents in a different, yet still respectful way?
My parents expect a man to ask them for my hand in marriage.
Are you sure? Have they mentioned this recently? Or was the last time anybody brought this up a decade or so ago? It's one thing if you're 18 and a half, and they want to help guide you even though you're a legal adult, quite another if you're your age.
posted by sageleaf at 3:59 PM on January 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
Are you sure? Have they mentioned this recently? Or was the last time anybody brought this up a decade or so ago? It's one thing if you're 18 and a half, and they want to help guide you even though you're a legal adult, quite another if you're your age.
posted by sageleaf at 3:59 PM on January 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
"Mr. and Mrs. Anonymous, I love your daughter and I want to spend the rest of my life with her. I'd love for you to give me permission to join your family."
Or something like that.
posted by inturnaround at 4:17 PM on January 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
Or something like that.
posted by inturnaround at 4:17 PM on January 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
There are three parties involved here - your SO, your parents, and you. We know how two of them feel, how about you?
Let's say that you don't really like the tradition either, but you want to keep the parents happy. Express that to your SO and try to come up with some sort of compromise (which may well end up not being a compromise at all as it may involve him just asking them with a minimum of eye-rolling. My wife comes from a fairly traditional family, but is not that way herself. If she'd asked me to ask her parents for her hand in marriage I'd have done it because a pointless gesture that keeps the future in-laws happy is a good thing). The compromise won't be anyone's ideal, but that's the nature of compromise and of marriage too.
Really, work out something that you both are okay with (not ecstatic, okay) and get going.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 4:20 PM on January 3, 2011
Let's say that you don't really like the tradition either, but you want to keep the parents happy. Express that to your SO and try to come up with some sort of compromise (which may well end up not being a compromise at all as it may involve him just asking them with a minimum of eye-rolling. My wife comes from a fairly traditional family, but is not that way herself. If she'd asked me to ask her parents for her hand in marriage I'd have done it because a pointless gesture that keeps the future in-laws happy is a good thing). The compromise won't be anyone's ideal, but that's the nature of compromise and of marriage too.
Really, work out something that you both are okay with (not ecstatic, okay) and get going.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 4:20 PM on January 3, 2011
Agree with sageleaf- this is usually something you ask the father of the bride-to-be. Has he actually said something to the effect of "I won't be happy if he doesn't ask for my blessing?" I asked for my wife's father's blessing, but only because he is so important to her and I really like him alot and respect him. I asked him when I was 25.
posted by TheBones at 4:27 PM on January 3, 2011
posted by TheBones at 4:27 PM on January 3, 2011
My hubby did this 18 years ago -- AFTER he formally asked me to marry him and I said yes, because of course, I'm an independent woman and it's my choice, and he and I are/were both adults -- but he went to my Dad's house and did "ask" for my hand in marriage. It was just a nice bonding moment between my dad and my husband, to tell you the truth. There wasn't anything riding on it.
I can't get in touch with my hubby right now to verify the exact wording, but I"m pretty sure he opened by saying, "So I'll give you my Volkswagen and three goats for BlahLaLa's hand in marriage." It went over well.
posted by BlahLaLa at 4:28 PM on January 3, 2011 [2 favorites]
I can't get in touch with my hubby right now to verify the exact wording, but I"m pretty sure he opened by saying, "So I'll give you my Volkswagen and three goats for BlahLaLa's hand in marriage." It went over well.
posted by BlahLaLa at 4:28 PM on January 3, 2011 [2 favorites]
My parents expect a man to ask them for my hand in marriage. The problem with this is that my boyfriend doesn't like that tradition because I'm an independent adult and who to marry should be my choice alone.
I think it's notable that you ask about a "different, yet still respectful way" to participate in this tradition, which implies to me that maybe you hold a position in-between that of your boyfriend and your parents.
I think that your boyfriend's compromise sounds sensible, and is close enough that your parents can interpret it as him asking them for permission, despite your involvement in the conversation.
posted by desuetude at 4:31 PM on January 3, 2011
I think it's notable that you ask about a "different, yet still respectful way" to participate in this tradition, which implies to me that maybe you hold a position in-between that of your boyfriend and your parents.
I think that your boyfriend's compromise sounds sensible, and is close enough that your parents can interpret it as him asking them for permission, despite your involvement in the conversation.
posted by desuetude at 4:31 PM on January 3, 2011
If you feel really strongly that they need to be asked and your partner feels strongly that he's icked out by asking permission, such as it is, why not just ask for the blessing? He doesn't need to ask for your hand, and you don't need to ask for permission to get married. You can both go to your parents and say "Hey, mom and dad, we've got some great news--we've decided to get married! We'd like to have your blessing, blah blah blah."
It makes it clear that the marriage is your decision and avoids creepy undertones that you're property who needs to have your owner's approval of life decisions, but it's also respectful of their position as people whose opinions are a big deal to you.
posted by MeghanC at 4:31 PM on January 3, 2011 [6 favorites]
It makes it clear that the marriage is your decision and avoids creepy undertones that you're property who needs to have your owner's approval of life decisions, but it's also respectful of their position as people whose opinions are a big deal to you.
posted by MeghanC at 4:31 PM on January 3, 2011 [6 favorites]
I really like the idea of designing some special moment that works for everyone while acknowledging that your wishes and your husband-to-be's take priority over your parents'.
posted by Sidhedevil at 4:35 PM on January 3, 2011
posted by Sidhedevil at 4:35 PM on January 3, 2011
What about "I am planning to ask Ms Anonymous to marry me and we'd like to ask for your blessing before we go ahead." (He should be the one to ask, if your parents have a thing about this.)
posted by DarlingBri at 4:36 PM on January 3, 2011
posted by DarlingBri at 4:36 PM on January 3, 2011
My dad proposed to my mom in a fairly normal fashion (one knee, ring, etc) ~30 years ago and a few minutes after saying yes and both of them being all happy, my mom verified "you did ask my father first, right?" to which my dad said "why would I ask him to marry you, you're an adult, you can make your own choices."
My grandparents have never had anything against my dad and the fact that he didn't ask permission to marry my mom wasn't an issue, though it was in my mom's head for some reason. Maybe the same is true here?
(My parents are traditional people who are right of center, go to church Sunday mornings and watch Fox. I am practically a complete opposite in many ways.)
posted by Brian Puccio at 4:57 PM on January 3, 2011
My grandparents have never had anything against my dad and the fact that he didn't ask permission to marry my mom wasn't an issue, though it was in my mom's head for some reason. Maybe the same is true here?
(My parents are traditional people who are right of center, go to church Sunday mornings and watch Fox. I am practically a complete opposite in many ways.)
posted by Brian Puccio at 4:57 PM on January 3, 2011
I assume that part of what bothers your boyfriend is the weird gender dynamics implied by this tradition. So since you said your families have been getting along, how about having BOTH sets of parents over for dinner and the two of you saying jointly "We have been talking about marriage and you are so important to us that we would love to have your blessings before we formally move forward."
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 5:01 PM on January 3, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 5:01 PM on January 3, 2011 [3 favorites]
Are you sure everyone's parents will be thrilled? My ex formally asked my father for his daughter's hand in marriage. My dad, who hated my ex and was annoyed by that tradition but figured I'd do whatever I wanted anyway, said, "Uh, well, get me a carton of Winstons and two 6-packs of Cokes and I'll think about it."
It creeped out my ex, depressed me and put a weird tinge on the whole thing. I gave my ex the cash for the cigarettes and Cokes back after a divorce lawyer meeting.
It' should be as personal and individual as you, your SO and all the parents. Four grown adults rarely react to an emotional moment in the same way, so prepare for the best, expect the worst, do it the way that would make the two of you most comfortable.
posted by Gucky at 5:03 PM on January 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
It creeped out my ex, depressed me and put a weird tinge on the whole thing. I gave my ex the cash for the cigarettes and Cokes back after a divorce lawyer meeting.
It' should be as personal and individual as you, your SO and all the parents. Four grown adults rarely react to an emotional moment in the same way, so prepare for the best, expect the worst, do it the way that would make the two of you most comfortable.
posted by Gucky at 5:03 PM on January 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
I would have your bf do the talking but use wording that makes it clear that you are going to get married and but you would both like your parents' approval and blessing.
Suggestion: The two of you hold hands. BF says "Mr. Father-of-the-bride, your daughter and I love each other very much and have agreed to marry. We take this commitment very seriously and it would mean a great deal to us to have your blessing."
Then consider what you could draw on from your faith tradition that would be an actual blessing.
So if FtoB just said "yeah, sure, we're delighted", take it the next step.
For example, for a blessing within the Jewish tradition, you might ask each of your parents to place a hand on each of your heads and recite the traditional priestly/parents blessing: "May the Lord bless you and keep you. May the Lord let his face shine upon you and be gracious to you. May the Lord lift his face towards you and grant you peace.".
Then the two of you should bring out something appropriate (champagne or a nonalcoholic equivalent) to toast to the engagement and to the in-laws-to-be or offer to share a dish with "good luck" connotations.
posted by metahawk at 5:07 PM on January 3, 2011
Suggestion: The two of you hold hands. BF says "Mr. Father-of-the-bride, your daughter and I love each other very much and have agreed to marry. We take this commitment very seriously and it would mean a great deal to us to have your blessing."
Then consider what you could draw on from your faith tradition that would be an actual blessing.
So if FtoB just said "yeah, sure, we're delighted", take it the next step.
For example, for a blessing within the Jewish tradition, you might ask each of your parents to place a hand on each of your heads and recite the traditional priestly/parents blessing: "May the Lord bless you and keep you. May the Lord let his face shine upon you and be gracious to you. May the Lord lift his face towards you and grant you peace.".
Then the two of you should bring out something appropriate (champagne or a nonalcoholic equivalent) to toast to the engagement and to the in-laws-to-be or offer to share a dish with "good luck" connotations.
posted by metahawk at 5:07 PM on January 3, 2011
What culture are you from? This makes a big difference.
Not necessarily. My family and my background are United States, New England intellectuals on one side and Swamp Yankees on the other, and very little "girls can't do x y or z" kind of thinking or training or cultural baggage going on. And yet -- my father still told me once that he fully expects that any potential future husband of mine should ask him for my hand, and he would "kind of have a problem" if he didn't. (And he and I actually got into something of a tense "where the hell do you get off thinking that, Dad?" conversation when I found that out.) For him, it was about more of a nod towards tradition, and also a little bit of "well, hell, I had to do it to YOUR mother, no fair if HE gets out of it".
But the way I think of it is -- well, there's a scene from the film The Queen, where Gordon Brown and Elizabeth have a formal ritual in which she formally asks him to be Prime Minister. What Elizabeth ACTUALLy thinks doesn't matter -- the election is what made Gordon Brown PM. But this is just a thing that they have to do for the sake of ritual and tradition, so...there it is. This is the same thing -- no one REALLY thinks there's a chance that your future father-in-law is going to forbid this, this is just the traditional way that you guys confirm with the bride's family that "you're happy about this, right?"
Although, if your beloved still feels a little hinky about the idea of being "given away" like property, I once played a scenario out in my own head that made me giggle a little -- in which a potential future fiance could get around that by talking to my father about, "okay, look. I got a problem -- on the one hand, I know you're expecting me to ask you for EC's hand, and I'm down with that. But on the other hand - dude, you know what EC's like and how she'd have my butt in a sling if I do that. So... you can see my dilemma, sir. What would you do in my shoes?" If your beloved's father is pretty good-humored, he'll get the message.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:07 PM on January 3, 2011
Not necessarily. My family and my background are United States, New England intellectuals on one side and Swamp Yankees on the other, and very little "girls can't do x y or z" kind of thinking or training or cultural baggage going on. And yet -- my father still told me once that he fully expects that any potential future husband of mine should ask him for my hand, and he would "kind of have a problem" if he didn't. (And he and I actually got into something of a tense "where the hell do you get off thinking that, Dad?" conversation when I found that out.) For him, it was about more of a nod towards tradition, and also a little bit of "well, hell, I had to do it to YOUR mother, no fair if HE gets out of it".
But the way I think of it is -- well, there's a scene from the film The Queen, where Gordon Brown and Elizabeth have a formal ritual in which she formally asks him to be Prime Minister. What Elizabeth ACTUALLy thinks doesn't matter -- the election is what made Gordon Brown PM. But this is just a thing that they have to do for the sake of ritual and tradition, so...there it is. This is the same thing -- no one REALLY thinks there's a chance that your future father-in-law is going to forbid this, this is just the traditional way that you guys confirm with the bride's family that "you're happy about this, right?"
Although, if your beloved still feels a little hinky about the idea of being "given away" like property, I once played a scenario out in my own head that made me giggle a little -- in which a potential future fiance could get around that by talking to my father about, "okay, look. I got a problem -- on the one hand, I know you're expecting me to ask you for EC's hand, and I'm down with that. But on the other hand - dude, you know what EC's like and how she'd have my butt in a sling if I do that. So... you can see my dilemma, sir. What would you do in my shoes?" If your beloved's father is pretty good-humored, he'll get the message.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:07 PM on January 3, 2011
To clarify, culture makes a difference as to what type of ritual you need to perform to satisfy the parents. If they're just uptight WASPy Americans, that's one thing (where asking for one's hand is not some sort of super common tradition), but if there is a very traditional, deeply rooted typical way that this is approached, it can make a difference *if you want to honor that.*
posted by elpea at 5:11 PM on January 3, 2011
posted by elpea at 5:11 PM on January 3, 2011
He should be the one to ask, if your parents have a thing about this.
I strongly disagree. Why does he have to be the one to compromise his feelings to salve their attachment to a sexist tradition? Yes, it seems like the OP's okay with that, but the future husband doesn't have a responsibility to be okay with that.
posted by Sidhedevil at 5:32 PM on January 3, 2011 [3 favorites]
I strongly disagree. Why does he have to be the one to compromise his feelings to salve their attachment to a sexist tradition? Yes, it seems like the OP's okay with that, but the future husband doesn't have a responsibility to be okay with that.
posted by Sidhedevil at 5:32 PM on January 3, 2011 [3 favorites]
Seems to me that asking for their blessing vs asking for their permission/"your hand" is very different. Would your parents have a problem if he asked for their blessing rather than their permission? Would your boyfriend? Would you? (I agree that it's interesting that your feelings are conspicuously absent here... make sure you think about what you want, too.)
You could find a way to word it that makes him and you comfortable that you're not suggesting that they have veto power over the marriage-- but still honoring and respecting them as your parents, and treating their support/blessing of your engagement as something very important and valuable to you. Asking before he officially proposes would tilt it more towards the parents' side, asking afterwards more towards the independence side.
(How would he and and you feel about asking his parents for their blessing before or afterwards, too? Would you? To me, that would go a long way towards taking the sexism out of it and transforming it more into a gesture of respect and love for both your families and recognition of their importance in your lives and the impact of your marriage on them.)
posted by EmilyClimbs at 6:27 PM on January 3, 2011
You could find a way to word it that makes him and you comfortable that you're not suggesting that they have veto power over the marriage-- but still honoring and respecting them as your parents, and treating their support/blessing of your engagement as something very important and valuable to you. Asking before he officially proposes would tilt it more towards the parents' side, asking afterwards more towards the independence side.
(How would he and and you feel about asking his parents for their blessing before or afterwards, too? Would you? To me, that would go a long way towards taking the sexism out of it and transforming it more into a gesture of respect and love for both your families and recognition of their importance in your lives and the impact of your marriage on them.)
posted by EmilyClimbs at 6:27 PM on January 3, 2011
The big thing that would make me uncomfortable is asking for permission - I much prefer asking for a blessing, where it's clear that you've made your own decision and aren't giving them veto power, since that's something that you'd be uncomfortable with. Either he asks on his own, or you four all get together and he says "we'd like to ask for your blessing for our marriage" - I think he should ask, as the one who isn't family yet and as a nod toward your parents' preference that he "ask for your hand".
posted by Lady Li at 6:49 PM on January 3, 2011
posted by Lady Li at 6:49 PM on January 3, 2011
I strongly disagree. Why does he have to be the one to compromise his feelings to salve their attachment to a sexist tradition? Yes, it seems like the OP's okay with that, but the future husband doesn't have a responsibility to be okay with that.
Mostly because if he wants to have a relatively good and peaceful relationship with the in-laws, it might just be easier for him to bite this bullet (for a one time thing) than die on that particular hill and start things out badly. I don't think it's awesome either, but if it's a sticking point in that culture, I'd advise him to suck it up. Depends on the parents, though.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:11 PM on January 3, 2011
Mostly because if he wants to have a relatively good and peaceful relationship with the in-laws, it might just be easier for him to bite this bullet (for a one time thing) than die on that particular hill and start things out badly. I don't think it's awesome either, but if it's a sticking point in that culture, I'd advise him to suck it up. Depends on the parents, though.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:11 PM on January 3, 2011
This might depend on their cultural tradition, but if this is about being plain-vanilla American but having illusions of class superiority, you might try convincing your parents that this is not a "traditional" practice, but in fact a tacky stab at acting high-class. Read some Austen: the heroes ask the ladies first, and then inform the fathers; the dipshits ask the fathers first.
posted by palliser at 8:34 PM on January 3, 2011
posted by palliser at 8:34 PM on January 3, 2011
One historically sound reason for asking a father for his daughter's hand, is to assure that in case the marriage fails for any reason, the father will welcome the daughter back to his home, should she, and perhaps her children, need the help. By getting his approval of the groom, before the groom asks the bride, the father of the bride, speaking on behalf of the parental family of the bride, becomes party to the deal; that's always been an underlying reason for doing things this way, in American life, because the alternative, unasked route to marriage, elopement, required nothing from the bride or grooms families, and expected nothing, ever, in return. Elopement, whether in the traditional sense of moving away without notice to anyone but whomever the bride and groom particularly chose to tell, to a different jurisdiction, to become husband and wife, or in just doing things on their own, where they are, is still the viable alternative route.
posted by paulsc at 9:12 PM on January 3, 2011
posted by paulsc at 9:12 PM on January 3, 2011
Mod note: few comments removed - back it up folks and address answers to the OP. Thank you
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:38 AM on January 4, 2011
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:38 AM on January 4, 2011
Mod note: From the OP:
People have been asking for some clarification, so:posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:42 AM on January 4, 2011
- We're left-of-center Christians. My parents' desire for a discussion with him is more out of a desire to act out a "nice, respectful tradition" than a need to give permission. Calling it a blessing would be fine; a particular ritual is not necessary. I think they just want to be included in the happy event. And yes, they did say something about this recently.
- If he asked them, I'd think it was sweet, if he didn't, I would not be offended. I'm on the fence about being there myself because it would make the actual proposal, when it happens, too much of a formality; but if that's what would make my boyfriend comfortable, I'll go.
- His family lives far away so it would be impractical to get all of our parents together.
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posted by elpea at 3:51 PM on January 3, 2011 [1 favorite]