I love Detroit, but should I live here?
December 3, 2010 5:47 AM Subscribe
I love Detroit, but should I live here? There's a lot of personal reasons that I want to live in Detroit, but crime and security issues have strained me financially.
I started my first full-time job working for a grassroots organization in Detroit, the city where I spent the first 13 years of my life. I moved to Detroit because it's important for me to be living in the same city where I work. It's also important for me to be able to be part of what's already happening in the city with respect with social justice movements. I love the house where I'm living, because my housemates are friends who are similarly dedicated to social justice in Detroit and provide support to me in many areas of my life, especially spiritually.
I have some great neighbors who are amazingly warm and welcoming. My rent is around $200, and we're using our rent to fix up the house that we're living in. In the long-term in could function as a space for a community organization, or maybe a family who needs it.
I've experience many positive things after moving here over the summer. Unfortunately, a few negative things have happened to me as well. My car has been stolen twice. Prior to this my car insurance doubled to nearly $500 because of my move.
I make around $2000 a month after taxes. I spent about $200 for gas, $50 on food, $100 on my phone, and I'd like to save a quarter of my income or a little more (between $500 and $600) on savings (for emergencies, vacations, retirement) as well as anticipated expenses like car maintenance). I also have student loan repayment coming in just around the corner, which will probably be around $100 a month.
My family is primarily concerned about my safety. (There was a shooting around the block from me, and more likely than not the car thieves were probably from the neighborhood. My first car was found on a different part of my street.) My friends are primarily concerned with my financial situation. What are your thoughts, reactions, advice?
I started my first full-time job working for a grassroots organization in Detroit, the city where I spent the first 13 years of my life. I moved to Detroit because it's important for me to be living in the same city where I work. It's also important for me to be able to be part of what's already happening in the city with respect with social justice movements. I love the house where I'm living, because my housemates are friends who are similarly dedicated to social justice in Detroit and provide support to me in many areas of my life, especially spiritually.
I have some great neighbors who are amazingly warm and welcoming. My rent is around $200, and we're using our rent to fix up the house that we're living in. In the long-term in could function as a space for a community organization, or maybe a family who needs it.
I've experience many positive things after moving here over the summer. Unfortunately, a few negative things have happened to me as well. My car has been stolen twice. Prior to this my car insurance doubled to nearly $500 because of my move.
I make around $2000 a month after taxes. I spent about $200 for gas, $50 on food, $100 on my phone, and I'd like to save a quarter of my income or a little more (between $500 and $600) on savings (for emergencies, vacations, retirement) as well as anticipated expenses like car maintenance). I also have student loan repayment coming in just around the corner, which will probably be around $100 a month.
My family is primarily concerned about my safety. (There was a shooting around the block from me, and more likely than not the car thieves were probably from the neighborhood. My first car was found on a different part of my street.) My friends are primarily concerned with my financial situation. What are your thoughts, reactions, advice?
What steps are you taking to address your safety concerns? I know someone who lives on an otherwise 100% deserted street in Jackson (near Lansing) who has found having a dog, having timed lights, bringing large-ish male friends by, using anti-theft devices on the car, etc., to greatly reduce the interest in the house, its contents, and the car.
Your rent might be a bit high (my Jackson friend's house was bought for $17k; with mortgage insurance they aren't quite breaking $400/month) given that you have housemates, and are in a dangerous neighborhood, and have to fix up the house.
Is the car insurance annual, quarterly, monthly? If it's monthly, move. If it's $500 a year, I am tempted to move to Detroit.
posted by SMPA at 6:11 AM on December 3, 2010
Your rent might be a bit high (my Jackson friend's house was bought for $17k; with mortgage insurance they aren't quite breaking $400/month) given that you have housemates, and are in a dangerous neighborhood, and have to fix up the house.
Is the car insurance annual, quarterly, monthly? If it's monthly, move. If it's $500 a year, I am tempted to move to Detroit.
posted by SMPA at 6:11 AM on December 3, 2010
Best answer: Well if you're going to try to save 25% of your income while making $2000 a month, Detroit isn't a bad place to do it.
I think that what we've got here is actually a risk analysis situation. You're basically asking how to balance the risks associated with living in Detroit against the potential cost savings that go with living there. There are some other benefits to sticking around as well, and those shouldn't be discounted.
On the benefits side: rent is cheap. Really cheap. $400 a month on rent and utilities? Hell, I spend about $850 a month, and Fort Wayne is pretty damn cheap. Also, you're living in a community that you find meaningful and important. That isn't the sort of thing you put a price on, but it's not something you ignore either.
On the risk side: Your living situation is way, way riskier than it would be if you lived elsewhere, even in the Detroit burbs. Your car has already been stolen twice. If it isn't recovered next time, or is burned out, etc., that's going to cost you hundreds if not thousands of dollars, even with insurance. There goes months and months of savings. You're more likely to be assaulted where you're living than you would be elsewhere. That's going to be expensive too.
So ultimately, the question is whether you're comfortable with the risks inherent in your current situation. Parents tend to be pretty intolerant of risk of physical injury to their children, for obvious reasons. You may be more tolerant to that risk than they are, and you probably have a better sense of the magnitude of that risk than they do. True, you're more likely to get shot in Detroit than you are in a small rural community in Kansas, but even in Detroit, I'd be willing to bet that most of the shootings aren't random, i.e. criminal elements killing each other and those involved with them. Random acts of violence happen, but a majority of the people shot in Detroit probably aren't random victims.
On the other hand, I think you probably overestimate the financial benefits to where you're living. Even if you're able to set aside $500-600 a month--which is awesome, I wish I could do that--odds are pretty decent that you're actually going to need most of that just because you live where you do. Replacing cars is expensive, and you're more likely to have to do that where you are than in Ann Arbor. You're "fixing up the house" you're renting. Not sure what the deal is there, but houses are expensive to maintain, and if you're actually responsible for maintenance, well... you can drop $1000 on a house without even knowing you've done it. And besides that, life is just expensive. Need to fly across the country for an unexpected funeral? There goes $750. Transmission breaks? $1000 easy. Have to take FMLA? You ain't gettin' paid for that. So that financial buffer you're building up is less likely to go to long-term savings than it is for short-term savings, i.e. the inevitable expenses that crop up every couple of months.
And DarlingBri is right: you can't be spending $50 a month on food. $50 a week maybe, though I can see you doing slightly better if you really scrimp. But $50 a month is about $1.50 a day, and I just don't see that happening. I'm pretty frugal about my food, and I spend more than that a meal.
Ultimately though, this is a question you're going to have to answer for yourself. Are you comfortable with the risks involved in your living situation or not? Maybe you're willing to shoulder those risks, both physical and financial, for the benefit of living with your friends and spiritual community. That's certainly a decision I'd respect, and though it may be a tough sell for your parents, it's your life, not theirs.
posted by valkyryn at 6:19 AM on December 3, 2010
I think that what we've got here is actually a risk analysis situation. You're basically asking how to balance the risks associated with living in Detroit against the potential cost savings that go with living there. There are some other benefits to sticking around as well, and those shouldn't be discounted.
On the benefits side: rent is cheap. Really cheap. $400 a month on rent and utilities? Hell, I spend about $850 a month, and Fort Wayne is pretty damn cheap. Also, you're living in a community that you find meaningful and important. That isn't the sort of thing you put a price on, but it's not something you ignore either.
On the risk side: Your living situation is way, way riskier than it would be if you lived elsewhere, even in the Detroit burbs. Your car has already been stolen twice. If it isn't recovered next time, or is burned out, etc., that's going to cost you hundreds if not thousands of dollars, even with insurance. There goes months and months of savings. You're more likely to be assaulted where you're living than you would be elsewhere. That's going to be expensive too.
So ultimately, the question is whether you're comfortable with the risks inherent in your current situation. Parents tend to be pretty intolerant of risk of physical injury to their children, for obvious reasons. You may be more tolerant to that risk than they are, and you probably have a better sense of the magnitude of that risk than they do. True, you're more likely to get shot in Detroit than you are in a small rural community in Kansas, but even in Detroit, I'd be willing to bet that most of the shootings aren't random, i.e. criminal elements killing each other and those involved with them. Random acts of violence happen, but a majority of the people shot in Detroit probably aren't random victims.
On the other hand, I think you probably overestimate the financial benefits to where you're living. Even if you're able to set aside $500-600 a month--which is awesome, I wish I could do that--odds are pretty decent that you're actually going to need most of that just because you live where you do. Replacing cars is expensive, and you're more likely to have to do that where you are than in Ann Arbor. You're "fixing up the house" you're renting. Not sure what the deal is there, but houses are expensive to maintain, and if you're actually responsible for maintenance, well... you can drop $1000 on a house without even knowing you've done it. And besides that, life is just expensive. Need to fly across the country for an unexpected funeral? There goes $750. Transmission breaks? $1000 easy. Have to take FMLA? You ain't gettin' paid for that. So that financial buffer you're building up is less likely to go to long-term savings than it is for short-term savings, i.e. the inevitable expenses that crop up every couple of months.
And DarlingBri is right: you can't be spending $50 a month on food. $50 a week maybe, though I can see you doing slightly better if you really scrimp. But $50 a month is about $1.50 a day, and I just don't see that happening. I'm pretty frugal about my food, and I spend more than that a meal.
Ultimately though, this is a question you're going to have to answer for yourself. Are you comfortable with the risks involved in your living situation or not? Maybe you're willing to shoulder those risks, both physical and financial, for the benefit of living with your friends and spiritual community. That's certainly a decision I'd respect, and though it may be a tough sell for your parents, it's your life, not theirs.
posted by valkyryn at 6:19 AM on December 3, 2010
Best answer: I started my first full-time job working for a grassroots organization in Detroit, the city where I spent the first 13 years of my life. I moved to Detroit because it's important for me to be living in the same city where I work. It's also important for me to be able to be part of what's already happening in the city with respect with social justice movements. I love the house where I'm living, because my housemates are friends who are similarly dedicated to social justice in Detroit and provide support to me in many areas of my life, especially spiritually.
Stay put! Money and a feeling of "safety" can't buy what you've got now. Sounds like a fantastic place to spend your first working years. You can live your life scared of risks in the suburbs, or you can take calculated risks with big payoffs. And I don't know the particulars of Detroit, but there are going to be shootings around the corner in pretty much any urban neighborhood in the US. If you start to feel really physically threatened and stop seeing any positives about your neighborhood, that might be the time to think about going (or getting a big dog and motion sensor lights and a car alarm).
posted by yarly at 6:42 AM on December 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
Stay put! Money and a feeling of "safety" can't buy what you've got now. Sounds like a fantastic place to spend your first working years. You can live your life scared of risks in the suburbs, or you can take calculated risks with big payoffs. And I don't know the particulars of Detroit, but there are going to be shootings around the corner in pretty much any urban neighborhood in the US. If you start to feel really physically threatened and stop seeing any positives about your neighborhood, that might be the time to think about going (or getting a big dog and motion sensor lights and a car alarm).
posted by yarly at 6:42 AM on December 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
I spent about $200 for gas
For someone who prioritizes living in the same city in which he works, you drive an awful lot. If you're driving that much, you're going to run into a lot of auto expenses beyond simply gas-- maintenance costs are going to pile up, and that car isn't going to last forever, and you'll have to have a financial plan for replacing it.
there are going to be shootings around the corner in pretty much any urban neighborhood in the US
This absolutely isn't true. Every city has some crime, but notMy friends are primarily concerned with my financial situation. every neighborhood you live in is going to have "shootings around the corner" on a regular basis.
My friends are primarily concerned with my financial situation.
Assuming you're just out of school, $2000/month isn't great, but it's fine for a low-rent phase of your life-- it's more than a lot of graduate student stipends. If you're going to live on that much money, Detroit is the place to do it, but you're severely underestimating how much being car-dependent is going to put a financial clamp on your lifestyle. You can't live on $2000/month forever, but it's perfectly sustainable in the near term.
posted by deanc at 7:06 AM on December 3, 2010
For someone who prioritizes living in the same city in which he works, you drive an awful lot. If you're driving that much, you're going to run into a lot of auto expenses beyond simply gas-- maintenance costs are going to pile up, and that car isn't going to last forever, and you'll have to have a financial plan for replacing it.
there are going to be shootings around the corner in pretty much any urban neighborhood in the US
This absolutely isn't true. Every city has some crime, but notMy friends are primarily concerned with my financial situation. every neighborhood you live in is going to have "shootings around the corner" on a regular basis.
My friends are primarily concerned with my financial situation.
Assuming you're just out of school, $2000/month isn't great, but it's fine for a low-rent phase of your life-- it's more than a lot of graduate student stipends. If you're going to live on that much money, Detroit is the place to do it, but you're severely underestimating how much being car-dependent is going to put a financial clamp on your lifestyle. You can't live on $2000/month forever, but it's perfectly sustainable in the near term.
posted by deanc at 7:06 AM on December 3, 2010
Well, I don't mean to downplay the risk of violence; it's just that just every gritty (and even the very upscale) urban neighborhoods in every US city will have some incidents of gun violence, muggings, etc, every year. But unless you never want to live in a city as a young person, you're just going to have to decide not to be scared off.
posted by yarly at 8:13 AM on December 3, 2010
posted by yarly at 8:13 AM on December 3, 2010
I've lived in Detroit, and metro Detroit my entire life. I love Detroit, but as a mid 20's guy, I wouldn't want to live in Detroit considering many factors.
I value my safety. I like not having to worry about my car being broken into. I like being able to walk my neighborhood @ 2 in the morning when I can't sleep. I like having grocery stores to shop at (none in Detroit). I like having lower insurance premiums. I like not hearing gun shots (and yes, I've seen and heard these activities while spending time in Detroit). I've had a friend get robbed twice at knife point which resulted in him being stabbed (this was in the Wayne State area).
I don't like to see chronic blight or invest money into a home when shells of homes lay on all sides.
For the price you are paying now, you could easily get a place in a surrounding burb like Redford. Hell, I know a guy who just bought a house at short sale in Livonia for $14k!
With that said, I do love my city. I love the culture of the area, the events, and the many great things Detroit has to offer from a cuisine perspective.
While I'd love to live in Detroit some day and help its revival, until the political climate creates social and economic change in the area it feels a bit like trying to bail water out of a canoe with holes in the bottom. You've already experienced some of the bullshit Detroit has to offer.
Its funny, I've been to many other major cities and been to Europe, and I believe (perhaps foolishly) that Detroit will once again become a world class city.
posted by handbanana at 8:30 AM on December 3, 2010
I value my safety. I like not having to worry about my car being broken into. I like being able to walk my neighborhood @ 2 in the morning when I can't sleep. I like having grocery stores to shop at (none in Detroit). I like having lower insurance premiums. I like not hearing gun shots (and yes, I've seen and heard these activities while spending time in Detroit). I've had a friend get robbed twice at knife point which resulted in him being stabbed (this was in the Wayne State area).
I don't like to see chronic blight or invest money into a home when shells of homes lay on all sides.
For the price you are paying now, you could easily get a place in a surrounding burb like Redford. Hell, I know a guy who just bought a house at short sale in Livonia for $14k!
With that said, I do love my city. I love the culture of the area, the events, and the many great things Detroit has to offer from a cuisine perspective.
While I'd love to live in Detroit some day and help its revival, until the political climate creates social and economic change in the area it feels a bit like trying to bail water out of a canoe with holes in the bottom. You've already experienced some of the bullshit Detroit has to offer.
Its funny, I've been to many other major cities and been to Europe, and I believe (perhaps foolishly) that Detroit will once again become a world class city.
posted by handbanana at 8:30 AM on December 3, 2010
Best answer: Your family is worried for your safety, your friends are worried about your finances... what are you worried about? It sounds like you like your house, roomates, and living in Detroit a lot, and you don't sound so worried about those other things.
Finances: I wouldn't be worried so much about your finances - you live pretty cheaply now, and you might be able to find something a little more expensive and more safe, but is it worth it to you?
Safety: Only you can decide how safe you do or don't feel in the neighborhood - you're the one that lives there. If you're doing the club on your car and worry that it still might go missing again, or that your neighbors are hostile, then you have every right to want to move. But it's your decision about your own life.
Have you talked with your colleagues? When I volunteered in the city almost 20 years ago the other folks in the program were from all over Detroit, and had different experiences in different neighborhoods, different perspectives. Your colleagues might recommend a different neighborhood for you, or have other good advice about your question.
Lastly, as a kid of the burbs who's left for safe, easy (and so much more expensive) Boston, thank you for doing important work in Detroit. What an amazing place!
posted by ldthomps at 10:15 AM on December 3, 2010
Finances: I wouldn't be worried so much about your finances - you live pretty cheaply now, and you might be able to find something a little more expensive and more safe, but is it worth it to you?
Safety: Only you can decide how safe you do or don't feel in the neighborhood - you're the one that lives there. If you're doing the club on your car and worry that it still might go missing again, or that your neighbors are hostile, then you have every right to want to move. But it's your decision about your own life.
Have you talked with your colleagues? When I volunteered in the city almost 20 years ago the other folks in the program were from all over Detroit, and had different experiences in different neighborhoods, different perspectives. Your colleagues might recommend a different neighborhood for you, or have other good advice about your question.
Lastly, as a kid of the burbs who's left for safe, easy (and so much more expensive) Boston, thank you for doing important work in Detroit. What an amazing place!
posted by ldthomps at 10:15 AM on December 3, 2010
Part of why Mr. Adams and I moved out of Detroit in 2000 (we'd lived in a lovely rental house on the far east side, near the Grosse Pointe border, for seven years; our rent was only $450/month) was the increasing lack of city services. Street lights were left unrepaired. Vandals were stealing the fire hydrants to sell for scrap metal, and they weren't being replaced. We called 911 once when I felt very ill and got a busy signal for 10 minutes. When Mr. Adams did get through, the indifferent operator told us there weren't any ambulances or EMS units available, and that he'd be better off driving me to the hospital himself. (Which he did, and as it turned out I was having what was termed a "mini-stroke.") At least our garbage pick-up was regular and reliable, but that wasn't the case in every neighborhood. Over the years we had a couple of extended power outages, and that meant Mr. Adams and I having to take turns sleeping and "guarding" (literally sitting outside on the front porch), since no electricity meant total blackness once the sun went down, and alarm systems weren't functioning. Another problem was finding a local drugstore that was able to keep a pharmacist on duty during regular store hours. We finally had to switch our prescriptions to a CVS in Roseville because the three (two in Detroit, one in Harper Woods) drugstores near us were always a dice roll as to whether a pharmacist would be in that day (you cannot by law pick up prescriptions if the pharmacist is not on duty, even if he packaged them earlier). One other thing - even though redlining is technically illegal, we eventually had to lie and use my parent's suburban address in order to afford car insurance. With no tickets or any points on our licenses, we were still paying triple the premium that we got with the suburban address.
I think one telling factor is that Detroit's EMS chief admitted on camera that he doesn't live in the city but in the suburbs. You may be younger and healthier than I, so emergency medical care might not be one of your main concerns at this time. But it's something to think about.
posted by Oriole Adams at 12:37 PM on December 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
I think one telling factor is that Detroit's EMS chief admitted on camera that he doesn't live in the city but in the suburbs. You may be younger and healthier than I, so emergency medical care might not be one of your main concerns at this time. But it's something to think about.
posted by Oriole Adams at 12:37 PM on December 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
Preface: my boyfriend lives in Detroit, and if I didn't work in Ann Arbor, I'd live there too. I spend a lot of time in Detroit with him. He's been robbed at gunpoint in his neighborhood, his former landlord had his car broken into because he left $1 bill in a cupholder, a friend of his was attacked by a couple of young men while riding his bike down my boyfriend's street, and this is in Woodbridge (which is a decent neighborhood, for Detroit). I am familiar with the positives and negatives of living in Detroit.
Therefore, I can't speak to your financial situation, or your feelings about your personal safety. It is a dangerous city, and surprisingly expensive. Rent rates astonish me--there's very little in the middle. You're either paying a ridiculous amount to live in a luxury loft, or next to nothing to live in a "neighborhood" where your broken down house is the only one on the block. Urban prairie, indeed.
Now then. It's unclear to me if 1) this grassroots job is your current job and 2) if this grassroots organization is devoted in any way to Detroit. If the answer to 1) and 2) is yes, think hard about what it means to work 9-5 on improving and revitalizing the city, then driving home to the suburbs. Are you comfortable with the implications of that lifestyle? How will you feel about this choice 10, 20 years from now?
posted by Tall Telephone Pea at 8:24 AM on December 4, 2010
Therefore, I can't speak to your financial situation, or your feelings about your personal safety. It is a dangerous city, and surprisingly expensive. Rent rates astonish me--there's very little in the middle. You're either paying a ridiculous amount to live in a luxury loft, or next to nothing to live in a "neighborhood" where your broken down house is the only one on the block. Urban prairie, indeed.
Now then. It's unclear to me if 1) this grassroots job is your current job and 2) if this grassroots organization is devoted in any way to Detroit. If the answer to 1) and 2) is yes, think hard about what it means to work 9-5 on improving and revitalizing the city, then driving home to the suburbs. Are you comfortable with the implications of that lifestyle? How will you feel about this choice 10, 20 years from now?
posted by Tall Telephone Pea at 8:24 AM on December 4, 2010
Response by poster: Thanks to everyone for your posts! It was invaluable. Your thoughts and advice helped provide clarity to even my own understanding about why I'm doing what I'm doing. I'm staying in Detroit, taking extra precautions for personal safety, and taking steps to be more realistic about my budget and financially savvy.
posted by SpicyMustard at 1:08 PM on January 3, 2011
posted by SpicyMustard at 1:08 PM on January 3, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
$500 on insurance, 200 on gas, 50 on food, $100 on phone, $200 on rent. I make $1050 on expenses. You make $2000. That's almost $1000 left over, comfortably giving you $950 leftover.
Except those numbers don't really seem like they'd be right. You cannot be spending $50 a month in food, and you need to buy clothes and probably pay for cable, internet, and toothpaste. You must also be eating out often. You may have credit card or student loan debt to account for. I suspect the problem is not with your paycheck but with your budget, or not having one. An actual one, entered into a tracking mechanism, not a back-of-the-envelope one.
The single biggest part of being on top of finances is budgeting. Track everything you spend every day for a month. Review it and create a budget that helps you meet your goals for the following month. Then see where you are.
I think the finances and the location are separate issues. In terms of specifically living in Detroit, you face the same problems as everyone else living in high-crime areas. If the car is an ongoing issue, buy a beater. Is the shooting an anomaly or a regular occurrence?
posted by DarlingBri at 6:03 AM on December 3, 2010 [1 favorite]