I thought you were supposed to become wiser as you get older? So how can I live with these problems?
November 28, 2010 10:23 AM Subscribe
My SO has been separated for more than 14 years but has never divorced. He is in Tennessee and she is in Michigan. He says he is just a procrastinator. On the other hand I have strong Christian beliefs that he acquiesces to, but doesn't seem to have if I am not around, so I don't feel I could marry him anyway. One of the big problems is that we are more content together than apart but the conflicts within are strong. (We never argue.)
We have great chemistry yet my beliefs make me not want to have sex outside of marriage. We laugh at the same things, have similar tastes and get along great except for the above issues.
I fell in love with him the first time I saw him. In many ways we are soul mates. We dated, he asked me to marry him. We went to my pastor for premarital counseling and it seemed we were headed the right way. Then he seems to get cold feet and tells me he had never actually divorced. At times I think he is divorced and just doesn't want to marry me and other times I think he is telling the truth. Other than the above he is very reliable and steady and has always been there for me. On the other hand, I feel he is part of me and love him on a level I have never loved another person, yet because of my beliefs at times I have fled. The last time we had one e-mail contact in one year. I felt like I was being torn apart inside- it was horrible. Then at a low moment I called him and we have been back together about five weeks.
My children are all grown with their own lives and in a way it seems like with him is the only place that I belong any more. I feel so torn. Your thoughts are welcome.
We have great chemistry yet my beliefs make me not want to have sex outside of marriage. We laugh at the same things, have similar tastes and get along great except for the above issues.
I fell in love with him the first time I saw him. In many ways we are soul mates. We dated, he asked me to marry him. We went to my pastor for premarital counseling and it seemed we were headed the right way. Then he seems to get cold feet and tells me he had never actually divorced. At times I think he is divorced and just doesn't want to marry me and other times I think he is telling the truth. Other than the above he is very reliable and steady and has always been there for me. On the other hand, I feel he is part of me and love him on a level I have never loved another person, yet because of my beliefs at times I have fled. The last time we had one e-mail contact in one year. I felt like I was being torn apart inside- it was horrible. Then at a low moment I called him and we have been back together about five weeks.
My children are all grown with their own lives and in a way it seems like with him is the only place that I belong any more. I feel so torn. Your thoughts are welcome.
If you, and he, are willing to be indefinitely in a chaste (because of your beliefs) relationship, it seems like it doesn't necessarily matter if he wants to get married or not.
However, it sounds like you have bigger issues going on. If you're not sure if you believe that he is telling you the truth (At times I think he is divorced and just doesn't want to marry me and other times I think he is telling the truth and I have strong Christian beliefs that he acquiesces to, but doesn't seem to have if I am not around) it sounds like you have larger issues to deal with.
posted by arnicae at 10:32 AM on November 28, 2010
However, it sounds like you have bigger issues going on. If you're not sure if you believe that he is telling you the truth (At times I think he is divorced and just doesn't want to marry me and other times I think he is telling the truth and I have strong Christian beliefs that he acquiesces to, but doesn't seem to have if I am not around) it sounds like you have larger issues to deal with.
posted by arnicae at 10:32 AM on November 28, 2010
How do you live with these problems? You don't. Either he's reluctant to get a divorce or he's lying to you to avoid marrying you. Neither of those are problems you "live with." Neither do they define someone who's reliable and steady and always there for you.
My children are all grown with their own lives and in a way it seems like with him is the only place that I belong any more.
You are not your children, and you are certainly not your SO. You are you, and you need to figure out who that is before you resolve to spend the rest of your life with someone just to have somewhere to "belong." Have you looked into counseling for yourself alone? I think it would help, even if it were just to have someone listen.
posted by katillathehun at 10:33 AM on November 28, 2010 [7 favorites]
My children are all grown with their own lives and in a way it seems like with him is the only place that I belong any more.
You are not your children, and you are certainly not your SO. You are you, and you need to figure out who that is before you resolve to spend the rest of your life with someone just to have somewhere to "belong." Have you looked into counseling for yourself alone? I think it would help, even if it were just to have someone listen.
posted by katillathehun at 10:33 AM on November 28, 2010 [7 favorites]
I'm sure it's possible to find out if two people are married or divorced or what. I don't exactly know how to do it, but the records are kept somewhere.
posted by delmoi at 10:35 AM on November 28, 2010
posted by delmoi at 10:35 AM on November 28, 2010
As a Christian to a Christian, I would tell him to let you know when the divorce is final and not to contact you till it is.
I think you can do better than this, frankly. This behavior is red flag all over, in my book.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 10:49 AM on November 28, 2010 [13 favorites]
I think you can do better than this, frankly. This behavior is red flag all over, in my book.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 10:49 AM on November 28, 2010 [13 favorites]
Divorce records are kept in the counties where the divorce was made; if you wish to get confirmation on whether he is divorced or not you would, I believe, need to start looking up all the county courthouses in counties where both your friend and his ex have lived since the time they separated, starting with the county they were living in at the time of their separation. At least, this is what an acquaintance had to do when she started questioning whether her husband was really divorced or not.
One thought -- if he is willing to have a long-term, celibate relationship with you without wanting to get married (your prerequisite to sex) perhaps he has sexual problems (impotence, etc.) that he is too embarrassed to share with you. Of course, if he has been pressuring you for sex outside of marriage that theory would be a wash-out.
posted by frobozz at 10:50 AM on November 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
One thought -- if he is willing to have a long-term, celibate relationship with you without wanting to get married (your prerequisite to sex) perhaps he has sexual problems (impotence, etc.) that he is too embarrassed to share with you. Of course, if he has been pressuring you for sex outside of marriage that theory would be a wash-out.
posted by frobozz at 10:50 AM on November 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
If you don't trust him, you shouldn't marry him. If you don't believe what he tells you, you shouldn't marry him. If he tells you one thing and then tells you another, you shouldn't marry him. If you want to marry a Christian and he's not one, you shouldn't marry him.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:50 AM on November 28, 2010 [18 favorites]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:50 AM on November 28, 2010 [18 favorites]
Your feelings, however strong, don't necessarily mean that this is a person worth marrying.
He isn't trustworthy. Someone who waits until an engagement to mention that he's still legally married isn't trustworthy; someone who lies about still being legally married in order to get out of an engagement isn't trustworthy; either way, this man isn't trustworthy.
posted by Meg_Murry at 11:04 AM on November 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
He isn't trustworthy. Someone who waits until an engagement to mention that he's still legally married isn't trustworthy; someone who lies about still being legally married in order to get out of an engagement isn't trustworthy; either way, this man isn't trustworthy.
posted by Meg_Murry at 11:04 AM on November 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
You're lonely and it's making you weak and you're tempted to settle. Happens to the best of us. It does not sound to me like you're really compatible. "But I love him!" Yeah, but no. You're lonely and idealizing him and want to minimize the compatibility issues. "But we're soulmates!" Yeah, but no. He either hid his marital status from you, or backed out of wanting to marry you. If nothing else, that's a massive communication problem. "But apart from that --" Yeah, no. We see an awful lot of "My SO has a couple of Serious Issues but otherwise s/he's perfect" questions here, and very often those Issues are too Serious for "great chemistry and personality and sense of humor" to overcome, which I think is the case here.
Since you say you have grown children, you're obviously no kid yourself, so I'd encourage you to make some efforts at finding fulfillment that don't involve this guy. Get more involved at church, start a Singles Ministry, maybe, if there isn't one already. Get out of the house, make some new friends, try a new hobby. Don't force yourself to compromise your values and settle down with the wrong person just because you think it's better than being alone.
posted by Gator at 11:05 AM on November 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
Since you say you have grown children, you're obviously no kid yourself, so I'd encourage you to make some efforts at finding fulfillment that don't involve this guy. Get more involved at church, start a Singles Ministry, maybe, if there isn't one already. Get out of the house, make some new friends, try a new hobby. Don't force yourself to compromise your values and settle down with the wrong person just because you think it's better than being alone.
posted by Gator at 11:05 AM on November 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
If it doesn't feel right to you to have a sexual relationship that is not a marriage, don't do it. (I am assuming from the tone of your post that this is a sexual relationship that you feel guilty about, not that it is a non-sexual relationship that he wishes were sexual.)
He is clearly not interested in getting married again; staying legally separated (or claiming to do so) is a great way to keep from getting married again.
So if that's a deal-breaker for you, move on. How do you move on? Counseling, either with a professional or with a pastor or both.
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:05 AM on November 28, 2010
He is clearly not interested in getting married again; staying legally separated (or claiming to do so) is a great way to keep from getting married again.
So if that's a deal-breaker for you, move on. How do you move on? Counseling, either with a professional or with a pastor or both.
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:05 AM on November 28, 2010
I have strong Christian beliefs that he acquiesces to, but doesn't seem to have if I am not around, so I don't feel I could marry him anyway.
There you go. You want marriage, and you want to marry someone who shares your faith. Regardless of how much you love him and whether he actually wants to marry you, he does not share your faith and you don't want to marry him. Find someone who actually meets your criteria.
posted by J. Wilson at 11:06 AM on November 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
There you go. You want marriage, and you want to marry someone who shares your faith. Regardless of how much you love him and whether he actually wants to marry you, he does not share your faith and you don't want to marry him. Find someone who actually meets your criteria.
posted by J. Wilson at 11:06 AM on November 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
Stop wasting time on him. Cut off all contact. Every time you see him, it will just start the feelings up again. Getting over someone you are in love with is like getting over a drug addiction. You need to avoid relapsing.
posted by Jacqueline at 11:10 AM on November 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Jacqueline at 11:10 AM on November 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
We laugh at the same things, have similar tastes and get along great except for the above issues.
These are fine reasons to start a relationship with someone to see how it develops. They are inadequate relationships to stay in a relationship with someone once you've seen how it develops.
I fell in love with him the first time I saw him. In many ways we are soul mates. ... I feel he is part of me and love him on a level I have never loved another person. ... it seems like with him is the only place that I belong any more.
Talking about feelings and relationships this way appears on the surface to be very romantic and compelling. However, it implies a kind of all-or-nothing state that is actually paralyzing -- it prevents you from seeing the situation and your options objectively.
To think about it objectively, the five-legged table analogy might help you. A table with five legs will survive almost anything. Four legs will still keep it standing, three legs is possible but it's much more precarious, and the whole thing collapses with only two. Be brutally honest: how many of those five legs does your relationship provide, especially given the essential lack of trust you describe? From what you've written here, by my count you have only two.
Reading between the lines of your question, I sense you may feel pretty lonely and that you may fear your life is lacking a direction or meaning on your own (esp. since your children are grown) -- hence the feeling that you need to stay in this relationship no matter what. My own take is that you are wasting your time on someone who will never give you what you need or want. This doesn't necessarily make him a bad person; it just means he isn't the person for you.
Please believe that your life can be good without him. You can meet new people -- whether or not they are potential romantic partners -- and bring meaning and direction to your life through church activities, volunteering, taking a class or taking up a new hobby, etc. It won't necessarily be easy, but that doesn't mean it's impossible.
posted by scody at 12:23 PM on November 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
These are fine reasons to start a relationship with someone to see how it develops. They are inadequate relationships to stay in a relationship with someone once you've seen how it develops.
I fell in love with him the first time I saw him. In many ways we are soul mates. ... I feel he is part of me and love him on a level I have never loved another person. ... it seems like with him is the only place that I belong any more.
Talking about feelings and relationships this way appears on the surface to be very romantic and compelling. However, it implies a kind of all-or-nothing state that is actually paralyzing -- it prevents you from seeing the situation and your options objectively.
To think about it objectively, the five-legged table analogy might help you. A table with five legs will survive almost anything. Four legs will still keep it standing, three legs is possible but it's much more precarious, and the whole thing collapses with only two. Be brutally honest: how many of those five legs does your relationship provide, especially given the essential lack of trust you describe? From what you've written here, by my count you have only two.
Reading between the lines of your question, I sense you may feel pretty lonely and that you may fear your life is lacking a direction or meaning on your own (esp. since your children are grown) -- hence the feeling that you need to stay in this relationship no matter what. My own take is that you are wasting your time on someone who will never give you what you need or want. This doesn't necessarily make him a bad person; it just means he isn't the person for you.
Please believe that your life can be good without him. You can meet new people -- whether or not they are potential romantic partners -- and bring meaning and direction to your life through church activities, volunteering, taking a class or taking up a new hobby, etc. It won't necessarily be easy, but that doesn't mean it's impossible.
posted by scody at 12:23 PM on November 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
You don't want to marry this guy. You want to marry the guy you wish this guy was. He's not that guy now, and won't become that guy in the future.
posted by Marty Marx at 12:31 PM on November 28, 2010 [11 favorites]
posted by Marty Marx at 12:31 PM on November 28, 2010 [11 favorites]
Often love is just not enough to sustain a relationship. You shouldn't have to compromise your religious and spiritual beliefs, nor should you live in a state of doubt regarding his martial state.
It's time for two sit-down, no holds barred, good honest talks.
The first talk is with yourself. You are trying to lose yourself or define yourself by a relationship with others. That is not healthy at all. Before you can have a healthy relationship you have to be a complete person yourself. Be honest to yourself - especially with the good. Acknowledge all your successes and the positives in your life.
Then, talk with him until you are satisfied that you know the truth about his divorce. Talk until you both know exactly what the other wants. Talk until you have a resolution, whatever that may be.
posted by tar0tgr1 at 12:37 PM on November 28, 2010
It's time for two sit-down, no holds barred, good honest talks.
The first talk is with yourself. You are trying to lose yourself or define yourself by a relationship with others. That is not healthy at all. Before you can have a healthy relationship you have to be a complete person yourself. Be honest to yourself - especially with the good. Acknowledge all your successes and the positives in your life.
Then, talk with him until you are satisfied that you know the truth about his divorce. Talk until you both know exactly what the other wants. Talk until you have a resolution, whatever that may be.
posted by tar0tgr1 at 12:37 PM on November 28, 2010
So... have you actually ever asked him to get a divorce?
On the other hand I have strong Christian beliefs that he acquiesces to, but doesn't seem to have if I am not around, so I don't feel I could marry him anyway. One of the big problems is that we are more content together than apart but the conflicts within are strong. (We never argue.)
He doesn't believe the same things you do. But he respects your beliefs.
If not marrying is a dealbreaker, and you feel you can't marry this man, what are you hoping will happen? That he will come to embrace your christian beliefs more fully in his life?
Talk to him about these things, because it seems to me that you two aren't really communicating well. (Strong conflicts without arguments?)
posted by HFSH at 12:39 PM on November 28, 2010
On the other hand I have strong Christian beliefs that he acquiesces to, but doesn't seem to have if I am not around, so I don't feel I could marry him anyway. One of the big problems is that we are more content together than apart but the conflicts within are strong. (We never argue.)
He doesn't believe the same things you do. But he respects your beliefs.
If not marrying is a dealbreaker, and you feel you can't marry this man, what are you hoping will happen? That he will come to embrace your christian beliefs more fully in his life?
Talk to him about these things, because it seems to me that you two aren't really communicating well. (Strong conflicts without arguments?)
posted by HFSH at 12:39 PM on November 28, 2010
From what you say here, my guess is that this guy thought that you would cave and have sex with him if you thought that marriage was on the horizon. A pending divorce is a great obstacle in a situation like this - "Oh, we'll get married as soon as I get all this awful red tape sorted out..." Yeah, right.
This guy doesn't respect your religious beliefs. And it sounds like you don't trust him, anyway. DTMFA.
posted by Sara C. at 1:52 PM on November 28, 2010
This guy doesn't respect your religious beliefs. And it sounds like you don't trust him, anyway. DTMFA.
posted by Sara C. at 1:52 PM on November 28, 2010
Does the OP have a throwaway email that we could send messages to?
posted by thermonuclear.jive.turkey at 2:58 PM on November 28, 2010
posted by thermonuclear.jive.turkey at 2:58 PM on November 28, 2010
You think he could be lying about *not* being divorced, he's only a Christian when you're in the room, and you dob't want sex outside marriage.
The least complicated reading of this is that he's been saying what he thinks will enable access to your pants.
Any more complex reading still seems wafty and mediocre. Waiting for marriage means a *really* long wait, so you don't have a second to spare. Get out there and start looking for someone else.
posted by tel3path at 3:15 PM on November 28, 2010
The least complicated reading of this is that he's been saying what he thinks will enable access to your pants.
Any more complex reading still seems wafty and mediocre. Waiting for marriage means a *really* long wait, so you don't have a second to spare. Get out there and start looking for someone else.
posted by tel3path at 3:15 PM on November 28, 2010
Neither of you is providing what the other wants/needs in a long-term, romantic relationship. You wouldn't have posted here if you were willing to accept that this is as good as it gets!
There are better things out there for you, and I believe you know it. It is a sad thing, particularly given the strong feelings you have for the guy, but moving on is the right decision.
(God-talk can be unbearably hokey sometimes, so I apologize in advance if these words fall into that category...but I recently ended my engagement and have some thoughts from a religious perspective. Sometimes it's best to take a break from thoughts about what you want and consider what God wants for you. Particularly in matters of the heart, I find it can be incredibly difficult to maintain perspective. It can help to ask yourself, "Is this relationship really helping me to love and serve the Lord?" It sounds like being with this guy may be keeping you from deeper, more meaningful joys.)
posted by lovelylucy at 7:14 PM on November 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
There are better things out there for you, and I believe you know it. It is a sad thing, particularly given the strong feelings you have for the guy, but moving on is the right decision.
(God-talk can be unbearably hokey sometimes, so I apologize in advance if these words fall into that category...but I recently ended my engagement and have some thoughts from a religious perspective. Sometimes it's best to take a break from thoughts about what you want and consider what God wants for you. Particularly in matters of the heart, I find it can be incredibly difficult to maintain perspective. It can help to ask yourself, "Is this relationship really helping me to love and serve the Lord?" It sounds like being with this guy may be keeping you from deeper, more meaningful joys.)
posted by lovelylucy at 7:14 PM on November 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
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Big questions like that.
If your SO can't talk about these things, then maybe this isn't the right relationship. Having big things like this that you're not able to talk about - no matter how much your views are in alignment - sounds like something that would pull you apart, the way it's causing you anguish now.
posted by zippy at 10:31 AM on November 28, 2010 [1 favorite]