How to handle this family member's displays of affection.
November 21, 2010 8:42 AM Subscribe
How do I handle my niece's intimate displays of affection in family holiday settings?
The holidays are upon us and I have an issue that I hope the hive can help with. My niece will be coming to the family dinner at Thanksgiving along with her mother and her girlfriend. When they both came to a family picnic this summer they were what I would consider overly affectionate with each other. By this I mean tongue in the ear, deep soul kisses in the presence of other family members. I sensed the uncomfortableness of other family members when this occured. She is arround 33 and her girlfriend is about 24. This is a fairly new relationship for the two of them. They have lived together around six months.
My daughter who will be there with her husband and child remarked to me about it later. They both grew up together and were friends, but even she seemed a little shocked.
On the one hand I want my niece to be comfortable with her significant other in my house, but on the other I don't want older members of the family to be uncomfortable.
The holidays are upon us and I have an issue that I hope the hive can help with. My niece will be coming to the family dinner at Thanksgiving along with her mother and her girlfriend. When they both came to a family picnic this summer they were what I would consider overly affectionate with each other. By this I mean tongue in the ear, deep soul kisses in the presence of other family members. I sensed the uncomfortableness of other family members when this occured. She is arround 33 and her girlfriend is about 24. This is a fairly new relationship for the two of them. They have lived together around six months.
My daughter who will be there with her husband and child remarked to me about it later. They both grew up together and were friends, but even she seemed a little shocked.
On the one hand I want my niece to be comfortable with her significant other in my house, but on the other I don't want older members of the family to be uncomfortable.
I wouldn't be overly pre-emptive about anything -- there's a good chance that 6 months into living together, they've gotten over the need to stick tongues in each other's ears in public. On the other hand, if they think people are only uncomfortable because it's gay kisses, rather than because it's just too much PDA, they may be doing it on purpose, in which case, whether they'll do it again may depend a lot on how noticeable the reaction they got in the summer was.
I'd probably just say something like 'Get a room, already' if they start up, because 'get a room' is already well-established for use on straight couples who can't keep their tongues in their own mouths where they belong.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:58 AM on November 21, 2010 [22 favorites]
I'd probably just say something like 'Get a room, already' if they start up, because 'get a room' is already well-established for use on straight couples who can't keep their tongues in their own mouths where they belong.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:58 AM on November 21, 2010 [22 favorites]
You would think that a 33 year old would have some idea of what is or isn't appropriate at a family gathering. This makes me wonder if the reaction was based on the fact that they're a gay couple, rather than excessive PDA - especially since a picnic is the kind of environment (more than a Thanksgiving dinner) where a few kisses and whispers in one's partner's ear don't seem out of place.
Hold off and wait to see if anything happens. I'd feel unwelcome if I showed up and the first thing you told me was "cool it; don't show affection with your SO because that makes some of us uncomfortable." Especially since it might not be a problem this time, waiting to see what happens would be prudent.
posted by J. Wilson at 9:11 AM on November 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
Hold off and wait to see if anything happens. I'd feel unwelcome if I showed up and the first thing you told me was "cool it; don't show affection with your SO because that makes some of us uncomfortable." Especially since it might not be a problem this time, waiting to see what happens would be prudent.
posted by J. Wilson at 9:11 AM on November 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
Is there a family member there last time whose buttons she was maybe specifically trying to push with this behavior? This sounds to me like the behavior of someone who has something to prove, or a point to make.
Really if they start up this time, just say, "Hey you two, get a room," and hopefully everyone will laugh, including them.
posted by hermitosis at 10:45 AM on November 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
Really if they start up this time, just say, "Hey you two, get a room," and hopefully everyone will laugh, including them.
posted by hermitosis at 10:45 AM on November 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
where a few kisses and whispers in one's partner's ear don't seem out of place.
The OP didn't say whispers in the ear - he said tongue. There's a big difference. The OP has given no indication that he (or anyone else in the family) has a problem with his niece being gay and I see no reason not to take him at his word when he describes their behaviour, which would be inappropriate even if they were a straight couple.
I agree with jacquilynne - don't mention anything up front, if they start getting inappropriate say 'get a room'. If they really don't take that hint then maybe you could have a word with her mother. If she has a good relationship with her mother then a private word from her might be better received than from you.
posted by missmagenta at 10:56 AM on November 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
The OP didn't say whispers in the ear - he said tongue. There's a big difference. The OP has given no indication that he (or anyone else in the family) has a problem with his niece being gay and I see no reason not to take him at his word when he describes their behaviour, which would be inappropriate even if they were a straight couple.
I agree with jacquilynne - don't mention anything up front, if they start getting inappropriate say 'get a room'. If they really don't take that hint then maybe you could have a word with her mother. If she has a good relationship with her mother then a private word from her might be better received than from you.
posted by missmagenta at 10:56 AM on November 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
Nthing the traditional "Get a room" comment, especially if accompanied by some cheerful catcalling, groans, and laughter.
posted by patronuscharms at 11:08 AM on November 21, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by patronuscharms at 11:08 AM on November 21, 2010 [5 favorites]
And calling them "lovebirds" while you tell them to get a room might ease some more tension. "Hey lovebirds, get a room!" Followed by light-hearted giggles.
posted by shesaysgo at 11:17 AM on November 21, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by shesaysgo at 11:17 AM on November 21, 2010 [4 favorites]
I think it's a bad idea to call your niece out in front of the rest of the family. Unfortunately, queer people often get the message, implicitly or explicitly, that our displays of affection are offensive or unacceptable, or make other people uncomfortable -- even the ones that would be okay coming from straight people, like holding hands, putting an arm around our partners, or a quick kiss on the cheek or lips. If your niece's behavior is outside the normal boundaries of what straight people do at your family gatherings, it would be kinder and more sensitive to say something to her privately along the lines of what mudpuppie suggests.
Are your daughter and your niece close at all? Would your daughter be willing to bring this up to her? I wonder if your niece might take this feedback more easily from someone who is of her own generation, and who isn't the host of the event.
posted by Siobhan at 11:52 AM on November 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
Are your daughter and your niece close at all? Would your daughter be willing to bring this up to her? I wonder if your niece might take this feedback more easily from someone who is of her own generation, and who isn't the host of the event.
posted by Siobhan at 11:52 AM on November 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
I think it's a bad idea to call your niece out in front of the rest of the family. Unfortunately, queer people often get the message, implicitly or explicitly, that our displays of affection are offensive or unacceptable, or make other people uncomfortable -- even the ones that would be okay coming from straight people, like holding hands, putting an arm around our partners, or a quick kiss on the cheek or lips.
The problem is that, according to the OP, the couple in quesiton aren't simply holding hands or embracing one another, they're French kissing and doing the stick-the-tongue-in-the-ear type of foreplay. Queer or straight, such overt public displays of affection are apt to make other attendees at any gathering uncomfortable. I'm sure the OP would express similar discomfort to a straight, newly-hooked up couple who are awash in hormones and who openly tongue one another at a family gathering.
I agree that a jocular "Hey you two, get a room!" comment is in order. Yeah, it might be considered rude to call them out publicly, but they initiated the rudeness by engaging in obvious sexual behavior at a family picnic. No matter how much in love a couple is, surely they can contain their emotions for a couple of hours.
posted by Oriole Adams at 1:26 PM on November 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
The problem is that, according to the OP, the couple in quesiton aren't simply holding hands or embracing one another, they're French kissing and doing the stick-the-tongue-in-the-ear type of foreplay. Queer or straight, such overt public displays of affection are apt to make other attendees at any gathering uncomfortable. I'm sure the OP would express similar discomfort to a straight, newly-hooked up couple who are awash in hormones and who openly tongue one another at a family gathering.
I agree that a jocular "Hey you two, get a room!" comment is in order. Yeah, it might be considered rude to call them out publicly, but they initiated the rudeness by engaging in obvious sexual behavior at a family picnic. No matter how much in love a couple is, surely they can contain their emotions for a couple of hours.
posted by Oriole Adams at 1:26 PM on November 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'm writing my response from the perspective of a woman from a family who has always been 100% accepting and 100% pro-equality, and I cannot recall hearing a single homophobic remark -- even just the colloquial use of "gay" as a synonym for "lame" -- ever being uttered at any family gathering. Despite all this, my gay brother (who knew he was gay since puberty) was STILL so uncomfortable and worried about coming out to his family that he didn't tell us until he was 23 years old and had just eloped with his boyfriend to Portland. I think this is because almost every other gay person he knew had been rejected by or harassed by their families for being gay. And even after he came out, it still took a while for him to relax enough around us to give his husband a peck on the mouth or cuddle with him (I have since learned from his Facebook photo archives that my brother definitely does not have general PDA issues -- he was just being super-restrained around his family). It breaks my heart that it took him so many years to realize that his own family really does love him, fully accepts him, and doesn't think there's anything wrong with him being gay.
So, one reason your niece might be so affectionate with her girlfriend in front of your family is that it may be one of the only environments in which she feels safe to do so around other people. That's a good thing, and it would be a shame if you said or did anything that would make her feel like her family doesn't accept her and her relationship.
Please keep in mind that many homosexual couples are hypersensitive to any criticism about their public displays of affection, because most of the time such criticism *is* motivated by feelings of "Ew, dykes/faggots!" and not "Ew, too much PDA!" So you have to approach this issue very cautiously, just like you would approach anyone else about an inherent characteristic that has made them a target for previous frequent bullying, ostracism, or discrimination.
As an analogy, think of someone with a speech impediment. You might laugh or joke about other friends and family stammering, misspeaking, or mispronouncing something, but you probably wouldn't do that to a person with the speech impediment, would you? Even though the actions and intent would be exactly the same, different people's different life experiences are going to make them react differently, and thus it would be unnecessarily hurtful to tease someone who was hypersensitive about how they talk.
Have any of the straight couples in your family ever engaged in public displays of affection at or near the level that this couple is, and if so, was it allowed to slide without public comment? Then saying anything about your niece's behavior runs the risk of be perceived as homophobia and hypocrisy, regardless of your actual reasons or intent. Your niece could easily respond or think, "Well, you didn't have a problem with so-and-so doing such-and-such! Why are you picking on me???" So, unless your niece's behavior is clearly on another level above and beyond what anyone else in the family has ever done (in which case, I agree with the other comments to try gently teasing, "Hey, lovebirds, get a room"), then this may be something that you'll just have to put up with if you don't want to risk making your niece feel unwelcome and unaccepted.
Basically, you have to make a decision about which consequence you think could be worse -- the risk of potentially deeply hurting your niece's feelings, or other family member's known discomfort from being subjected to watching a lesbian make-out session at every holiday? Since family is forever, I think the best criteria for weighing the alternatives is to think about who might still be upset about your decision 10, 20, 30, etc. years down the road... (If you haven't figured out my personal bias yet, I think it's more likely that the niece will still resent and feel hurt by any suggestion that her family perceives her and her relationship to be wrong/dirty than the other relatives will still remember -- much less resent -- witnessing too much PDA.)
Hopefully, one day gays and lesbians will be universally accepted, and all couples will be able to act like couples in public without being subjected to stares, nasty remarks, and other hostility. But we're not there yet. And until we are, I think it's kinder for us non-homophobes to compensate for all the assholes in the world by trying to be extra-accepting.
posted by Jacqueline at 3:22 PM on November 21, 2010 [9 favorites]
So, one reason your niece might be so affectionate with her girlfriend in front of your family is that it may be one of the only environments in which she feels safe to do so around other people. That's a good thing, and it would be a shame if you said or did anything that would make her feel like her family doesn't accept her and her relationship.
Please keep in mind that many homosexual couples are hypersensitive to any criticism about their public displays of affection, because most of the time such criticism *is* motivated by feelings of "Ew, dykes/faggots!" and not "Ew, too much PDA!" So you have to approach this issue very cautiously, just like you would approach anyone else about an inherent characteristic that has made them a target for previous frequent bullying, ostracism, or discrimination.
As an analogy, think of someone with a speech impediment. You might laugh or joke about other friends and family stammering, misspeaking, or mispronouncing something, but you probably wouldn't do that to a person with the speech impediment, would you? Even though the actions and intent would be exactly the same, different people's different life experiences are going to make them react differently, and thus it would be unnecessarily hurtful to tease someone who was hypersensitive about how they talk.
Have any of the straight couples in your family ever engaged in public displays of affection at or near the level that this couple is, and if so, was it allowed to slide without public comment? Then saying anything about your niece's behavior runs the risk of be perceived as homophobia and hypocrisy, regardless of your actual reasons or intent. Your niece could easily respond or think, "Well, you didn't have a problem with so-and-so doing such-and-such! Why are you picking on me???" So, unless your niece's behavior is clearly on another level above and beyond what anyone else in the family has ever done (in which case, I agree with the other comments to try gently teasing, "Hey, lovebirds, get a room"), then this may be something that you'll just have to put up with if you don't want to risk making your niece feel unwelcome and unaccepted.
Basically, you have to make a decision about which consequence you think could be worse -- the risk of potentially deeply hurting your niece's feelings, or other family member's known discomfort from being subjected to watching a lesbian make-out session at every holiday? Since family is forever, I think the best criteria for weighing the alternatives is to think about who might still be upset about your decision 10, 20, 30, etc. years down the road... (If you haven't figured out my personal bias yet, I think it's more likely that the niece will still resent and feel hurt by any suggestion that her family perceives her and her relationship to be wrong/dirty than the other relatives will still remember -- much less resent -- witnessing too much PDA.)
Hopefully, one day gays and lesbians will be universally accepted, and all couples will be able to act like couples in public without being subjected to stares, nasty remarks, and other hostility. But we're not there yet. And until we are, I think it's kinder for us non-homophobes to compensate for all the assholes in the world by trying to be extra-accepting.
posted by Jacqueline at 3:22 PM on November 21, 2010 [9 favorites]
Queer or straight, such overt public displays of affection are apt to make other attendees at any gathering uncomfortable.
Right, and I wasn't suggesting that anyone is out of line for being uncomfortable with the level of PDA described -- just noting that the bar for what constitutes "too much" PDA is often set a lot lower for gay couples than their straight counterparts, so it's very possible that the niece would feel criticized or embarrassed at being called out in front of others. Since the OP says, "I want my niece to be comfortable with her significant other in my house," it might be worth employing a little extra thoughtfulness and sensitivity in this situation, perhaps more than the OP might do for a straight family member.
posted by Siobhan at 3:37 PM on November 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
Right, and I wasn't suggesting that anyone is out of line for being uncomfortable with the level of PDA described -- just noting that the bar for what constitutes "too much" PDA is often set a lot lower for gay couples than their straight counterparts, so it's very possible that the niece would feel criticized or embarrassed at being called out in front of others. Since the OP says, "I want my niece to be comfortable with her significant other in my house," it might be worth employing a little extra thoughtfulness and sensitivity in this situation, perhaps more than the OP might do for a straight family member.
posted by Siobhan at 3:37 PM on November 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
"Hey you guys, cut that out, you're turning me on."
posted by number9dream at 8:41 AM on November 22, 2010
posted by number9dream at 8:41 AM on November 22, 2010
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I'd be okay with that if it were me (and god knows it wouldn't be), if it were clear that it wasn't a gay thing.
posted by mudpuppie at 8:49 AM on November 21, 2010 [4 favorites]