I thought that sort of thing was just between the two of us...
November 16, 2010 2:16 PM Subscribe
My girlfriend of a significant amount of time posted a naked picture of herself online without ever talking to me about it... am I wrong to be bothered by this?
There's a community where people share naked pictures of themselves... I've been aware of its existence but I don't really look at it... It's not a "porn" site, nobody gets paid...
I've just discovered accidentally (through a bit convoluted but not "snoop-ish" means at all) that my girlfriend of about 2 years has posted a nude of herself to this community...
Yes, I realize I need to talk to her. That's obvious.
What I'm wondering is: Am I in the wrong to be really upset about this? I feel like if she wants to do this, I deserve to understand the motivations why she's showing her naked body to other people. It feels like cheating to me.
To describe a bit of what's going through my head:
Why does she want to do this? Am I not making her feel sexy enough, so she needs reassurance from others? Does she have exhibitionist tendencies that she just doesn't feel comfortable discussing with me? I might be able to cope with it if she talked with me about it first and I understood, but I don't - and she did it behind my back - and that's incredibly hurtful to me.
Am I crazy and/or wrong to feel this hurt?
There's a community where people share naked pictures of themselves... I've been aware of its existence but I don't really look at it... It's not a "porn" site, nobody gets paid...
I've just discovered accidentally (through a bit convoluted but not "snoop-ish" means at all) that my girlfriend of about 2 years has posted a nude of herself to this community...
Yes, I realize I need to talk to her. That's obvious.
What I'm wondering is: Am I in the wrong to be really upset about this? I feel like if she wants to do this, I deserve to understand the motivations why she's showing her naked body to other people. It feels like cheating to me.
To describe a bit of what's going through my head:
Why does she want to do this? Am I not making her feel sexy enough, so she needs reassurance from others? Does she have exhibitionist tendencies that she just doesn't feel comfortable discussing with me? I might be able to cope with it if she talked with me about it first and I understood, but I don't - and she did it behind my back - and that's incredibly hurtful to me.
Am I crazy and/or wrong to feel this hurt?
It's ok and understandable that you're feeling hurt. That, however, does not mean she did anything wrong or scuzzy.
You two should sick down and talk about it. Don't accuse her of anything, because again, she didn't do anything, it's her body, her choice, but the lack of communication over her doing this seems odd.
Talk about, tell her how you're feeling, see how she's feeling and go from there.
posted by nomadicink at 2:26 PM on November 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
You two should sick down and talk about it. Don't accuse her of anything, because again, she didn't do anything, it's her body, her choice, but the lack of communication over her doing this seems odd.
Talk about, tell her how you're feeling, see how she's feeling and go from there.
posted by nomadicink at 2:26 PM on November 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
To the extent that this activity is a complete surprise to you, it's reasonable to feel like there's an aspect of her sexuality that she's hiding from you. The issue is communication, not exhibitionism. Ask why she didn't mention this to you, and be careful to keep the discussion on the question of why you didn't know about this, not the general "okay-ness" of her doing it.
That said, be aware that she might have kept it from you because she's embarrassed about wanting to do it, or just didn't think it was a thing that needed revelation. In other words, be ready to accept that there's no big issue here at all, that perhaps it's just one of those foibles you discover about your partner over time.
Relationships require candor as well as honesty. Leaving out something significant about yourself in your relationship is a lie-by-omission.
posted by fatbird at 2:27 PM on November 16, 2010 [3 favorites]
That said, be aware that she might have kept it from you because she's embarrassed about wanting to do it, or just didn't think it was a thing that needed revelation. In other words, be ready to accept that there's no big issue here at all, that perhaps it's just one of those foibles you discover about your partner over time.
Relationships require candor as well as honesty. Leaving out something significant about yourself in your relationship is a lie-by-omission.
posted by fatbird at 2:27 PM on November 16, 2010 [3 favorites]
Her body and photographic depictions of it belong to her, not to you. Have you talked with her about this and how you feel about it?
posted by Carol Anne at 2:27 PM on November 16, 2010 [25 favorites]
posted by Carol Anne at 2:27 PM on November 16, 2010 [25 favorites]
You're not crazy.
Certainly you need to have a talk about what she feels is appropriate in your relationship. You have to tell her what you feel comfortable with. Open the discussion channel ASAP.
posted by inturnaround at 2:29 PM on November 16, 2010
Certainly you need to have a talk about what she feels is appropriate in your relationship. You have to tell her what you feel comfortable with. Open the discussion channel ASAP.
posted by inturnaround at 2:29 PM on November 16, 2010
You're allowed to feel upset. Your emotions are your emotions. Just like your girlfriend's body is her body. What she does with it is not up to you. That is all you need to understand.
posted by fight or flight at 2:29 PM on November 16, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by fight or flight at 2:29 PM on November 16, 2010 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: @Carol Anne: Please don't make this into some feminist "it's her body!" thing...
I don't possess her body and I understand and respect that. I'm just bothered that she feels compelled to show it off to strangers without talking to me about it. Our sexuality is OURS.
posted by doompuppy at 2:29 PM on November 16, 2010 [61 favorites]
I don't possess her body and I understand and respect that. I'm just bothered that she feels compelled to show it off to strangers without talking to me about it. Our sexuality is OURS.
posted by doompuppy at 2:29 PM on November 16, 2010 [61 favorites]
As a counter-weight to "leave now" I would ask you to consider the following:
Why are you threatened by this? What is the worst outcome you can imagine following from this? Why do you feel she should consult with you before making this choice she made? How proprietary do you feel about about another person's body?
Those are not, by the way, accusations. They are questions that I hope may help you to frame your reaction. Because while your current reaction is one way to look at the situation, it isn't the only way to look at it. I can imagine a full spectrum of reactions from "Hot damn; let me see!" to "I feel threatened by this and need to be reassured" to "You're not who I thought you were and I'm leaving."
All of them are legitimate. You need to pick apart why you feel what you feel, and then decide how to manage that feeling to get the outcome you want.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:29 PM on November 16, 2010 [15 favorites]
Why are you threatened by this? What is the worst outcome you can imagine following from this? Why do you feel she should consult with you before making this choice she made? How proprietary do you feel about about another person's body?
Those are not, by the way, accusations. They are questions that I hope may help you to frame your reaction. Because while your current reaction is one way to look at the situation, it isn't the only way to look at it. I can imagine a full spectrum of reactions from "Hot damn; let me see!" to "I feel threatened by this and need to be reassured" to "You're not who I thought you were and I'm leaving."
All of them are legitimate. You need to pick apart why you feel what you feel, and then decide how to manage that feeling to get the outcome you want.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:29 PM on November 16, 2010 [15 favorites]
Carol Anne: "Her body and photographic depictions of it belong to her, not to you. Have you talked with her about this and how you feel about it"
At the same time, the relationship belongs to both of them. And if it's not something the OP is comfortable having his/her girlfriend do then it's perfectly reasonable to leave that relationship.
posted by theichibun at 2:30 PM on November 16, 2010 [6 favorites]
At the same time, the relationship belongs to both of them. And if it's not something the OP is comfortable having his/her girlfriend do then it's perfectly reasonable to leave that relationship.
posted by theichibun at 2:30 PM on November 16, 2010 [6 favorites]
Her body and photographic depictions of it belong to her, not to you.
Look, I understand that the idea of male control of the female body is an important topic, but this exact same logic suggests that it's none of the OP's business if his girlfriend wants to sleep with other people. It's her body.
A relationship is, among other things, an agreement that our lives and minds and bodies are not just our own anymore. The OP is not overstepping his bounds by expecting to have some input on who she shows her naked body to while they're in a relationship.
posted by 256 at 2:31 PM on November 16, 2010 [46 favorites]
Look, I understand that the idea of male control of the female body is an important topic, but this exact same logic suggests that it's none of the OP's business if his girlfriend wants to sleep with other people. It's her body.
A relationship is, among other things, an agreement that our lives and minds and bodies are not just our own anymore. The OP is not overstepping his bounds by expecting to have some input on who she shows her naked body to while they're in a relationship.
posted by 256 at 2:31 PM on November 16, 2010 [46 favorites]
Okay, biting down on the knee-jerk response: OP, do you know when these pictures were taken? Where they taken before you two started dating, or during your relationship?
posted by fight or flight at 2:32 PM on November 16, 2010
posted by fight or flight at 2:32 PM on November 16, 2010
I'm just bothered that she feels compelled to show it off to strangers without talking to me about it. Our sexuality is OURS.
Again, you need to talk to HER and express your feelings. You sound angry and hurt, because what you viewed as intimate and between the two of you now seems shared with others and you only found out by a means other than her telling you. Again, that's a totally legitimate way to feel, but you're angry and hurt now and possible in lashing out mood. Deal with that first and when you're a bit less hurt, consider DarlingBri's questions and talk to your GF about how you're feeling and why you're upset.
posted by nomadicink at 2:33 PM on November 16, 2010
Again, you need to talk to HER and express your feelings. You sound angry and hurt, because what you viewed as intimate and between the two of you now seems shared with others and you only found out by a means other than her telling you. Again, that's a totally legitimate way to feel, but you're angry and hurt now and possible in lashing out mood. Deal with that first and when you're a bit less hurt, consider DarlingBri's questions and talk to your GF about how you're feeling and why you're upset.
posted by nomadicink at 2:33 PM on November 16, 2010
Her body and photographic depictions of it belong to her, not to you.
Well, of course this is the case, but that's not the issue. It doesn't seem to me that the OP is talking about any ownership stake or control issues, he seems to be hurt that she is sharing something with other people he thought they would only share with each other. I think it isn't cheating necessarily, but it can be depending on how far it goes, especially why she is doing this.
I mean, sure, it's fine for someone to pose for a tasteful nude photo in a professional artistic setting and be proud of it. It's another thing entirely if you're posting these photos to fan the flames of passion of someone else or to convince them to reciprocate.
posted by inturnaround at 2:34 PM on November 16, 2010
Well, of course this is the case, but that's not the issue. It doesn't seem to me that the OP is talking about any ownership stake or control issues, he seems to be hurt that she is sharing something with other people he thought they would only share with each other. I think it isn't cheating necessarily, but it can be depending on how far it goes, especially why she is doing this.
I mean, sure, it's fine for someone to pose for a tasteful nude photo in a professional artistic setting and be proud of it. It's another thing entirely if you're posting these photos to fan the flames of passion of someone else or to convince them to reciprocate.
posted by inturnaround at 2:34 PM on November 16, 2010
What's this community like? Is it a sexy-flirty-for-fun site, or is it a body-acceptance sort of community, the kind of place where people are like "here's what I look like at this age and BMI and here are my various dimples and I've finally learned to love myself"? Those are different stories.
She has a right to post naked pictures of herself wherever she wants, as mentioned above. On the other hand, you have a right to be upset by it, and to consider it unacceptable in a relationship.
posted by Metroid Baby at 2:35 PM on November 16, 2010 [4 favorites]
She has a right to post naked pictures of herself wherever she wants, as mentioned above. On the other hand, you have a right to be upset by it, and to consider it unacceptable in a relationship.
posted by Metroid Baby at 2:35 PM on November 16, 2010 [4 favorites]
I would feel incredibly "weirded out" if I was you. So no, your reaction seems entirely reasonable to me. I woud probably even find this to be a "dumpable" offense.
posted by murrey at 2:36 PM on November 16, 2010
posted by murrey at 2:36 PM on November 16, 2010
Response by poster: @DarlingBri -- all very valid questions.
The way I feel about it is that I might've been OK with her doing it if it was something we did together. I mean, I wouldn't want to post myself up there, but if she talked to me about it, it might not have bothered me.
If I had some understanding of what made her want to do this, I might have been OK with it. I'm not sure I'd be OK with it, but I might have been.
Instead, she did it behind my back - which means that after 2 years and talk of potentially living together, she still feels compelled to keep secrets from me. Don't get me wrong, I realize we all have a certain amount of secrets - but this feels different to me.
I personally feel - and she has every right to disagree - that showing your nude body to other people (strangers or people you know) is a violation of trust against your significant other.
I realize all relationships are different, and I respect people's ability to be more free and open minded than I suppose I am -- I wish I could leave my hangups behind and think "eh, it's just sex" -- but it really bothers me.
posted by doompuppy at 2:36 PM on November 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
The way I feel about it is that I might've been OK with her doing it if it was something we did together. I mean, I wouldn't want to post myself up there, but if she talked to me about it, it might not have bothered me.
If I had some understanding of what made her want to do this, I might have been OK with it. I'm not sure I'd be OK with it, but I might have been.
Instead, she did it behind my back - which means that after 2 years and talk of potentially living together, she still feels compelled to keep secrets from me. Don't get me wrong, I realize we all have a certain amount of secrets - but this feels different to me.
I personally feel - and she has every right to disagree - that showing your nude body to other people (strangers or people you know) is a violation of trust against your significant other.
I realize all relationships are different, and I respect people's ability to be more free and open minded than I suppose I am -- I wish I could leave my hangups behind and think "eh, it's just sex" -- but it really bothers me.
posted by doompuppy at 2:36 PM on November 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
No, you're not wrong for being upset. By posting the pic online where other people could see it, she in effect had a sexual relationship of a sort with other people. Sure, it may not be consummated sex, but it is still sex. And most people are upset upon finding out that their partner had sex with someone else (in this instance, multiple people.)
This has nothing to do with "ownership" of her body, it has to do with violating trust.
posted by MexicanYenta at 2:36 PM on November 16, 2010
This has nothing to do with "ownership" of her body, it has to do with violating trust.
posted by MexicanYenta at 2:36 PM on November 16, 2010
I wish I could leave my hangups behind and think "eh, it's just sex"
You don't need to feel guilty for believing that sex is/should be something intimate between two people, rather than a leisure activity to be shared with lots of people.
posted by MexicanYenta at 2:39 PM on November 16, 2010 [10 favorites]
You don't need to feel guilty for believing that sex is/should be something intimate between two people, rather than a leisure activity to be shared with lots of people.
posted by MexicanYenta at 2:39 PM on November 16, 2010 [10 favorites]
Feelings in and of themselves are not crazy or wrong. It's what you do with them that matters. What outcome do you want to have? If this is a dealbreaker for you, then there's no real need to address it. Just break up. If it's NOT a dealbreaker, then what kind of relationship do you want? Decide that, then decide if what you want to do fits within those parameters. I'm going to take a leap and assume you want a loving and honest relationship, amongst other things. So show her that you love her, and be honest about what you found and that it bothers you. Being overly dramatic or accusatory does not fall within the parameters of "loving and honest."
If it were my husband, and I were operating as my best self, I'd say something like "Hey, I came across naked pictures of you on nakedpeoplewebsite.com and I was wondering what that's all about. I don't like the idea of other people seeing you naked but I wanted to talk about it before I got too upset."
(after reading your update) You might think that it's a no-brainer, that she should have known to tell you about it, but she may think it's no big deal and thus doesn't consider it something she has to inform you about. THIS is what you need to have a conversation about, not "you did this behind my back!" People draw their boundaries in all different places and I can easily see how what one person thinks is no big deal, another thinks is a deep dark secret.
posted by desjardins at 2:39 PM on November 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
If it were my husband, and I were operating as my best self, I'd say something like "Hey, I came across naked pictures of you on nakedpeoplewebsite.com and I was wondering what that's all about. I don't like the idea of other people seeing you naked but I wanted to talk about it before I got too upset."
(after reading your update) You might think that it's a no-brainer, that she should have known to tell you about it, but she may think it's no big deal and thus doesn't consider it something she has to inform you about. THIS is what you need to have a conversation about, not "you did this behind my back!" People draw their boundaries in all different places and I can easily see how what one person thinks is no big deal, another thinks is a deep dark secret.
posted by desjardins at 2:39 PM on November 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
Our sexuality is OURS.
But that still doesn't mean that Her sexuality is YOURS, or even OURS. People in relationships still fantasize, masturbate, etc -- not every aspect of their sexual selves in subsumed by the relationship. Moreover, sharing naked pictures of herself may be about body image or self-confidence, rather than sex.
It's not wrong of you to feel hurt, to wish she had talked to you about this, to wonder if it means there's something missing from her relationship with you, and it's really not wrong of you to use this to open a dialogue with her about all those issues. But try to come at it from a place where you haven't prejudged what she did as somehow wrong or a violation against you. It probably wasn't about you at all -- and that's really okay.
posted by jacquilynne at 2:40 PM on November 16, 2010 [17 favorites]
But that still doesn't mean that Her sexuality is YOURS, or even OURS. People in relationships still fantasize, masturbate, etc -- not every aspect of their sexual selves in subsumed by the relationship. Moreover, sharing naked pictures of herself may be about body image or self-confidence, rather than sex.
It's not wrong of you to feel hurt, to wish she had talked to you about this, to wonder if it means there's something missing from her relationship with you, and it's really not wrong of you to use this to open a dialogue with her about all those issues. But try to come at it from a place where you haven't prejudged what she did as somehow wrong or a violation against you. It probably wasn't about you at all -- and that's really okay.
posted by jacquilynne at 2:40 PM on November 16, 2010 [17 favorites]
Nudity and sexuality are not the same. It is one thing to say "within our relationship we do not share out sexuality with any 3rd parties" and that's fine (or not, depending on how you roll). That is not the same thing as "within our relationship we do not share our bodies with any 3rd parties."
doompuppy, it might help if you narrowed down what kind of community this is. Are we talking soft core free erotic nudes or My Naked Weightloss Journey or what? (Or does it in fact make no difference to you?)
posted by DarlingBri at 2:41 PM on November 16, 2010 [5 favorites]
doompuppy, it might help if you narrowed down what kind of community this is. Are we talking soft core free erotic nudes or My Naked Weightloss Journey or what? (Or does it in fact make no difference to you?)
posted by DarlingBri at 2:41 PM on November 16, 2010 [5 favorites]
Instead, she did it behind my back - which means that after 2 years and talk of potentially living together, she still feels compelled to keep secrets from me. Don't get me wrong, I realize we all have a certain amount of secrets - but this feels different to me.
After 2 (!!) years, she does this behind your back. I think 2 years is a long enough timeframe to decide if you could/want to disclose or discuss with an SO "hey, I'd like to venture into the online nude photographic realm, what do you think?" instead of going behind your back. To me, this is a BIG deal/secret/deal breaker.
posted by foxhat10 at 2:43 PM on November 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
After 2 (!!) years, she does this behind your back. I think 2 years is a long enough timeframe to decide if you could/want to disclose or discuss with an SO "hey, I'd like to venture into the online nude photographic realm, what do you think?" instead of going behind your back. To me, this is a BIG deal/secret/deal breaker.
posted by foxhat10 at 2:43 PM on November 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
If this is the same person you referred to in your previous AskMes, it points to fairly fundamental implicit disagreements over where "me" ends for both of you and where "us" begins.
posted by holgate at 2:44 PM on November 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by holgate at 2:44 PM on November 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: @DarlingBri it's nothing to do with weight loss or "acceptance"... it's people who like showing off their bodies in sexual ways... which does make a difference...
If my girlfriend were overweight and conscious of her body and posting to some sort of "acceptance" community, I'd view it totally differently. This community is about sexuality.
posted by doompuppy at 2:45 PM on November 16, 2010
If my girlfriend were overweight and conscious of her body and posting to some sort of "acceptance" community, I'd view it totally differently. This community is about sexuality.
posted by doompuppy at 2:45 PM on November 16, 2010
Well, whatever you do should probably chill a bit, if possible, before initiating this discussion with her. You sound shocked and hurt and I think you have every right to be. And possibly you have some ironclad evidence that it was definitely her that posted the shots. But speaking as an outsider, that definitely wouldn't be my first assumption. We've been in the digital camera era for about a decade; if both of you are out of junior high it seems entirely possible to me that someone else could have put up the photos. The tone of your post leaves me (an Internet stranger who doesn't know you at all, to be sure) with the feeling you'd have a hard time even accepting that as a possibility at the moment, and if you go into this conversation fixated on the notion that this can only be intended as a betrayal of your relationship - well, that's going to make a tough situation harder than it needs to be.
posted by Diablevert at 2:45 PM on November 16, 2010
posted by Diablevert at 2:45 PM on November 16, 2010
Was this on Reddit?
I almost did this once. I stumbled upon the specific subreddit - it seemed so great! All these people happy about their bodies! Everyone that posted got tons of compliments! People wanted to see me and tell me I was beautiful! I would be part of a community in this really intimate, free, happy way!
If I had gone through with it, I wouldn't have told my S.O. of the time because I would have been embarrassed. I wouldn't have said anything not because I wanted to cheat or because the relationship wasn't enough, but because I would have felt silly and ashamed for being insecure enough to want people to compliment me.
I ended up not doing it because the spontaneous whim wore off, and I decided I'd have the "silly and stupid" feeling regardless of whether anyone found out. But I almost did - and I consider myself a generally good partner, with absolutely zero ill intentions in that case.
posted by ohsnapdragon at 2:45 PM on November 16, 2010 [11 favorites]
I almost did this once. I stumbled upon the specific subreddit - it seemed so great! All these people happy about their bodies! Everyone that posted got tons of compliments! People wanted to see me and tell me I was beautiful! I would be part of a community in this really intimate, free, happy way!
If I had gone through with it, I wouldn't have told my S.O. of the time because I would have been embarrassed. I wouldn't have said anything not because I wanted to cheat or because the relationship wasn't enough, but because I would have felt silly and ashamed for being insecure enough to want people to compliment me.
I ended up not doing it because the spontaneous whim wore off, and I decided I'd have the "silly and stupid" feeling regardless of whether anyone found out. But I almost did - and I consider myself a generally good partner, with absolutely zero ill intentions in that case.
posted by ohsnapdragon at 2:45 PM on November 16, 2010 [11 favorites]
I'm not sure I buy that all sexual aspects of your partner are shared. Fantasies, masturbation, etc... these are not what I usually consider "ours".
Of course, involving other people is an issue when it comes to sex. But the real question is whether this counts as "sex" in that sense.
And the likely answer is: it does to you, it doesn't to her. My ex was a nude model / photographer. She took pictures of other people naked, there are lots of picture of her naked, etc. Neither she nor I thought of it as being related to our sex life. But that doesn't mean it's wrong to think that. My point is simply that your ex may not even be thinking about this as a sex-related thing (even if the pictures are displayed in a porn/pseudo-porn context). To me there's a huge difference between photos and sexual flirting / behavior with a/several people. Mostly has to do with context: if she was mailing photos to a specific person with intent to flirt or more, I'd have a problem with it. Posting them in a more general sense (like a MeFi post) doesn't have that intimacy and thus didn't trigger any jealousy.
posted by wildcrdj at 2:55 PM on November 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
Of course, involving other people is an issue when it comes to sex. But the real question is whether this counts as "sex" in that sense.
And the likely answer is: it does to you, it doesn't to her. My ex was a nude model / photographer. She took pictures of other people naked, there are lots of picture of her naked, etc. Neither she nor I thought of it as being related to our sex life. But that doesn't mean it's wrong to think that. My point is simply that your ex may not even be thinking about this as a sex-related thing (even if the pictures are displayed in a porn/pseudo-porn context). To me there's a huge difference between photos and sexual flirting / behavior with a/several people. Mostly has to do with context: if she was mailing photos to a specific person with intent to flirt or more, I'd have a problem with it. Posting them in a more general sense (like a MeFi post) doesn't have that intimacy and thus didn't trigger any jealousy.
posted by wildcrdj at 2:55 PM on November 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
I see that three out of your four askme questions are "is this feeling normal" and the other one is also "I don't trust my own judgment." If you don't trust yourself, it's going to be really difficult to trust another person. Like I said further up, your feelings are your feelings, and whatever they are is okay. Everyone experiences anger and jealousy, even Buddhist monks. Just be cognizant of your thoughts and be deliberate about your actions.
posted by desjardins at 2:58 PM on November 16, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by desjardins at 2:58 PM on November 16, 2010 [5 favorites]
It is okay to be upset. I would be upset too, if my SO did the same thing or something very similar without telling me about it first. Yes, my SO "owns" his own body, but when we entered into an exclusive relationship, we agreed upon monogamy. And for us, monogamy means we don't post naked pictures of ourselves online for the world to see.
Obviously, we don't know WHY your SO did this, OP. This is something you're going to have to ASK HER.
posted by SkylitDrawl at 3:02 PM on November 16, 2010
Obviously, we don't know WHY your SO did this, OP. This is something you're going to have to ASK HER.
posted by SkylitDrawl at 3:02 PM on November 16, 2010
"Our sexuality is OURS."
if i heard anyone i was dating say this, i'd be outta there in a HEARTBEAT. you might think that, but she obviously does not, and the expectations obviously haven't been hashed out. you're assuming this. it's not a given.
posted by crawfo at 3:07 PM on November 16, 2010 [6 favorites]
if i heard anyone i was dating say this, i'd be outta there in a HEARTBEAT. you might think that, but she obviously does not, and the expectations obviously haven't been hashed out. you're assuming this. it's not a given.
posted by crawfo at 3:07 PM on November 16, 2010 [6 favorites]
Response by poster: @crawfo - I can see where you're coming from, but she and I have discussed boundaries before. Not in explicit details with a list of rules, but definitely some viable generalities and also with joking-but-serious "nobody gets to see that but me!" remarks...
posted by doompuppy at 3:16 PM on November 16, 2010
posted by doompuppy at 3:16 PM on November 16, 2010
Ask yourself this question: if your girlfriend is truly interested in exhibitionism and she refuses to remove her photos from this site after you ask her about them, what does that mean for your relationship? Is the issue that she put pictures up in the first place, or that she put pictures up and didn't let you know first?
There is absolutely nothing wrong with having to say to this woman, "You know what, I really love you and I want to be with you, but this is a big deal to me because it makes me uncomfortable and I think it may become an even bigger deal later on down the road. I don't want to cramp your style if this is really important to you, but I need you to know that this matters to me too and I would be remiss if I were to try to ignore it because that wouldn't be fair to either of us."
posted by patronuscharms at 3:16 PM on November 16, 2010 [3 favorites]
There is absolutely nothing wrong with having to say to this woman, "You know what, I really love you and I want to be with you, but this is a big deal to me because it makes me uncomfortable and I think it may become an even bigger deal later on down the road. I don't want to cramp your style if this is really important to you, but I need you to know that this matters to me too and I would be remiss if I were to try to ignore it because that wouldn't be fair to either of us."
posted by patronuscharms at 3:16 PM on November 16, 2010 [3 favorites]
I just reread your posting history. If this is the same person from your last question, it seems to me that you guys have a lot of problems in regards to communication. One of the Grand Relationship Rules of Ask Metafilter is that your relationship is only as good as the communication in it. She seems to do a lot of things in this relationship "covertly" - do you feel like the communication in your relationship is good overall? Do the two of you feel comfortable talking about the "hard things" in the relationship? How did you handle the "covert net stalking issue" - did you guys talk it over as a couple, or did you let it go?
Maybe she posted the picture because she thought it was okay and no big deal and she didn't need to ask you first. OR maybe she hid it from you purposefully because she knew you would FREAK OUT if she asked you first. Just some things to think about.
posted by SkylitDrawl at 3:16 PM on November 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
Maybe she posted the picture because she thought it was okay and no big deal and she didn't need to ask you first. OR maybe she hid it from you purposefully because she knew you would FREAK OUT if she asked you first. Just some things to think about.
posted by SkylitDrawl at 3:16 PM on November 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
Instead, she did it behind my back - which means that after 2 years
I'd be pretty heartbroken over this, the lack of trust. Not cool.
posted by Neekee at 3:17 PM on November 16, 2010
I'd be pretty heartbroken over this, the lack of trust. Not cool.
posted by Neekee at 3:17 PM on November 16, 2010
Also, regarding the "sexuality is ours" comment -- IMO, there are hundreds of thousands of different types of relationships with all sorts of different schema and dogma that go with them. No one has the right to tell you that you are wrong for wanting a relationship in which both parties agree that your sexuality and sexual activities are YOURS as a duo. This is a partnership we're talking about here, and you have a right to be with someone whose conception of what that partnership means matches your own. To me, that's what's really going on here, aside from the obvious communication break down that seems to have occurred.
posted by patronuscharms at 3:18 PM on November 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by patronuscharms at 3:18 PM on November 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
By posting the pic online where other people could see it, she in effect had a sexual relationship of a sort with other people.
What? No.
Nudity and sexuality are not the same
Yes.
Was this on Reddit?
Sounded like gw to me too. If this is true, you know, it is reddit, but that said, it's a fairly non-leching, supportive sort of celebration of exhibitionism rather than a super sketch creepster amateur site or something. And posting it to something like gw is somehow different even than posting it to /b/ or whatever.
Why does she want to do this? Am I not making her feel sexy enough, so she needs reassurance from others? Does she have exhibitionist tendencies that she just doesn't feel comfortable discussing with me? I might be able to cope with it if she talked with me about it first and I understood, but I don't - and she did it behind my back - and that's incredibly hurtful to me.
Like you and many other said, you gotta talk to her. A lot of these questions are expressions of what are totally normal feelings insecurity, especially given the circumstances and the event. I think the biggest deal here is her keeping something like this from you, rather than the act itself. I agree with you that it might have been a different thing had she talked to you first. And no I don't think you're crazy at all for feeling a little hurt and/or betrayed. That said, I really wouldn't consider this 'cheating,' nor would I suggest that this is a relationship ender, by any means.
You could 1) get angry or let the green monster get the best of you, either ending your relationship or significantly straining it; or 2) try to talk to her and understand the how and why, and then see if you can use this conversation/knowledge to make your sex life even better. Who knows? Maybe she does have a voyeur kink...and she was afraid you wouldn't understand. But maybe you could understand, indulge her, and you might find that it ultimately brings you closer together.
posted by Lutoslawski at 3:19 PM on November 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
What? No.
Nudity and sexuality are not the same
Yes.
Was this on Reddit?
Sounded like gw to me too. If this is true, you know, it is reddit, but that said, it's a fairly non-leching, supportive sort of celebration of exhibitionism rather than a super sketch creepster amateur site or something. And posting it to something like gw is somehow different even than posting it to /b/ or whatever.
Why does she want to do this? Am I not making her feel sexy enough, so she needs reassurance from others? Does she have exhibitionist tendencies that she just doesn't feel comfortable discussing with me? I might be able to cope with it if she talked with me about it first and I understood, but I don't - and she did it behind my back - and that's incredibly hurtful to me.
Like you and many other said, you gotta talk to her. A lot of these questions are expressions of what are totally normal feelings insecurity, especially given the circumstances and the event. I think the biggest deal here is her keeping something like this from you, rather than the act itself. I agree with you that it might have been a different thing had she talked to you first. And no I don't think you're crazy at all for feeling a little hurt and/or betrayed. That said, I really wouldn't consider this 'cheating,' nor would I suggest that this is a relationship ender, by any means.
You could 1) get angry or let the green monster get the best of you, either ending your relationship or significantly straining it; or 2) try to talk to her and understand the how and why, and then see if you can use this conversation/knowledge to make your sex life even better. Who knows? Maybe she does have a voyeur kink...and she was afraid you wouldn't understand. But maybe you could understand, indulge her, and you might find that it ultimately brings you closer together.
posted by Lutoslawski at 3:19 PM on November 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
Think of your question as a flipside of sorts to all of those askmes about women who are uncomfortable with their male partner looking at porn online. Figure out where you fit in all of that.
posted by mandymanwasregistered at 3:20 PM on November 16, 2010
posted by mandymanwasregistered at 3:20 PM on November 16, 2010
RE: Think of your question as a flipside of sorts to all of those askmes about women who are uncomfortable with their male partner looking at porn online. Figure out where you fit in all of that.
Looking at it is one thing. It's different when your partner is the one that's naked.
posted by patronuscharms at 3:22 PM on November 16, 2010
Looking at it is one thing. It's different when your partner is the one that's naked.
posted by patronuscharms at 3:22 PM on November 16, 2010
It sounds like you want to know whether you're "right" before you talk to her. I understand that impulse, but I'm not sure it's actually productive in this situation. You shouldn't try to figure out a "right" outcome and then try to push her towards it. You should share your feelings with her in a non-blaming, non-accusatory way and then mutually solve the problem. In other words, come to her, tell her you came across these pictures, describe your emotional reaction, and then wait to see how she responds. Then work together with her to figure out how you can both feel OK and how you can both agree to go forward.
It may feel safer to prepare for the conversation by planning all these outcomes like "if she says she did it for X reason that's ok, but if she says Y I'll say Z" but what that really does is it freezes your thinking about the issue and it may limit your ability to understand her explanation and her feelings outside the framework you construct.
So I suggest you stop reading this thread and go talk to her.
posted by prefpara at 3:25 PM on November 16, 2010 [7 favorites]
It may feel safer to prepare for the conversation by planning all these outcomes like "if she says she did it for X reason that's ok, but if she says Y I'll say Z" but what that really does is it freezes your thinking about the issue and it may limit your ability to understand her explanation and her feelings outside the framework you construct.
So I suggest you stop reading this thread and go talk to her.
posted by prefpara at 3:25 PM on November 16, 2010 [7 favorites]
"if i heard anyone i was dating say this, i'd be outta there in a HEARTBEAT."
If I heard anyone I was dating say this, I'd feel even more confident about our relationship. Note that word: our. It's pretty important. Imagine a woman in a relationship with a man who decides to have a vasectomy without telling her. It's HIS body, but his action does have an impact on her future in the relationship. Similarly, the OP's girlfriend's actions have an impact on him should he choose to stay in the relationship because he may not be comfortable dating someone who posts naked pictures of herself online. And maybe that plays a role in why she didn't discuss it with him in the first place.
There are "me" people and there are "us" people. Two "us" people in a relationship tends to have a greater chance of lasting. Come to think of it, "us" people at work tends to have a greater chance of the team succeeding as well. On the other hand, a "me" person and an "us" person in a relationship tends to lead to disaster.
To the OP: You have two things you need to do.
#1: Talk to her about this. In depth.
#2: Figure out if you have trust issues within your relationship.
Best of luck.
posted by 2oh1 at 3:28 PM on November 16, 2010 [8 favorites]
If I heard anyone I was dating say this, I'd feel even more confident about our relationship. Note that word: our. It's pretty important. Imagine a woman in a relationship with a man who decides to have a vasectomy without telling her. It's HIS body, but his action does have an impact on her future in the relationship. Similarly, the OP's girlfriend's actions have an impact on him should he choose to stay in the relationship because he may not be comfortable dating someone who posts naked pictures of herself online. And maybe that plays a role in why she didn't discuss it with him in the first place.
There are "me" people and there are "us" people. Two "us" people in a relationship tends to have a greater chance of lasting. Come to think of it, "us" people at work tends to have a greater chance of the team succeeding as well. On the other hand, a "me" person and an "us" person in a relationship tends to lead to disaster.
To the OP: You have two things you need to do.
#1: Talk to her about this. In depth.
#2: Figure out if you have trust issues within your relationship.
Best of luck.
posted by 2oh1 at 3:28 PM on November 16, 2010 [8 favorites]
Response by poster: Regarding: Think of your question as a flipside of sorts to all of those askmes about women who are uncomfortable with their male partner looking at porn online. Figure out where you fit in all of that.
She's aware I look at porn. I'm aware she looks at porn. That's not the issue. The issue is that it's HER in the picture.
Heck, that's not even necessarily the issue.. the issue is that she did it without talking to me about how I might feel about it or if I'd be uncomfortable with it..
posted by doompuppy at 3:29 PM on November 16, 2010
She's aware I look at porn. I'm aware she looks at porn. That's not the issue. The issue is that it's HER in the picture.
Heck, that's not even necessarily the issue.. the issue is that she did it without talking to me about how I might feel about it or if I'd be uncomfortable with it..
posted by doompuppy at 3:29 PM on November 16, 2010
No, you're not crazy or wrong to feel the way you feel. I would feel the same way if I was in your situation. Your views, as expressed above, seem quite appropriate and logical to me.
Either you and she have similar views on what is appropriate for your relationship, in terms of sharing naked photos of yourself on the internet, or you don't. It seems to me that, having been in a monogamous relationship with someone for 2 years, it would be impossible for her not to at least have a good idea of how you'd feel about her doing this, and vice versa. I guess it's possible that this is a misunderstanding about the ground rules for this sort of thing in your relationship... but given what you've said above, it seems highly unlikely.
You should definitely confront her about it. My guess is it will be a difficult conversation.
posted by hootenatty at 3:31 PM on November 16, 2010
Either you and she have similar views on what is appropriate for your relationship, in terms of sharing naked photos of yourself on the internet, or you don't. It seems to me that, having been in a monogamous relationship with someone for 2 years, it would be impossible for her not to at least have a good idea of how you'd feel about her doing this, and vice versa. I guess it's possible that this is a misunderstanding about the ground rules for this sort of thing in your relationship... but given what you've said above, it seems highly unlikely.
You should definitely confront her about it. My guess is it will be a difficult conversation.
posted by hootenatty at 3:31 PM on November 16, 2010
taking this question and the cyber-stalking question into consideration, it seems like you ascribe malice to her activities and crazy happenstance to yours. it seems like trust and communication are big issues between you two, maybe bigger still because you feel the need to talk outside of your relationships to solve issues inside of it.
monogamy isn't binary. it is a moving, living, breathing agreement between the two of you that you hash out through open communication and understanding. please stop reading this thread and go talk to her.
posted by nadawi at 3:31 PM on November 16, 2010 [8 favorites]
monogamy isn't binary. it is a moving, living, breathing agreement between the two of you that you hash out through open communication and understanding. please stop reading this thread and go talk to her.
posted by nadawi at 3:31 PM on November 16, 2010 [8 favorites]
Why are we talking about porn? THIS ISN'T ABOUT PORN.
posted by SkylitDrawl at 3:32 PM on November 16, 2010
posted by SkylitDrawl at 3:32 PM on November 16, 2010
The "it's her body and she can do what she wants with it" replies are trite and miss the mark, I think. People agree to be in committed relationships, however they define that. As an obvious example, if she were sleeping with other dudes despite their agreement that she wouldn't, that would obviously be a betrayal of trust and of the relationship despite the banal fact that she has the right to do whatever she wants with her body.
There's a sense in which she's obviously having a sexual relationship with other people via the internet. So, yeah, being upset or hurt isn't a "wrong" or "crazy" reaction. At the same time, she didn't go around sleeping with these people (as far as you know), and it's very possible that she doesn't view this as having a sexual relationship with those people on the internet. That's a gray area, and now that you're aware that you view things differently (if that's all we're talking about), you guys need to acknowledge your respective viewpoints and reach an understanding that you're both comfortable with.
posted by J. Wilson at 3:35 PM on November 16, 2010
There's a sense in which she's obviously having a sexual relationship with other people via the internet. So, yeah, being upset or hurt isn't a "wrong" or "crazy" reaction. At the same time, she didn't go around sleeping with these people (as far as you know), and it's very possible that she doesn't view this as having a sexual relationship with those people on the internet. That's a gray area, and now that you're aware that you view things differently (if that's all we're talking about), you guys need to acknowledge your respective viewpoints and reach an understanding that you're both comfortable with.
posted by J. Wilson at 3:35 PM on November 16, 2010
It sounds like you want to know whether you're "right" before you talk to her. I understand that impulse, but I'm not sure it's actually productive in this situation.
prefpara put what I wanted to say in a much, much more helpful way.
There is really no way to figure out whether you're right or wrong to be so angry if all you are doing is sitting around, talking to strangers. Even sitting around and assembling facts inside your head isn't going to give you the whole story, because -- well, you know, you're only half of the relationship. You're missing half the story.
Go talk to your girlfriend. Actually listen to what she says.
posted by joyceanmachine at 3:41 PM on November 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
prefpara put what I wanted to say in a much, much more helpful way.
There is really no way to figure out whether you're right or wrong to be so angry if all you are doing is sitting around, talking to strangers. Even sitting around and assembling facts inside your head isn't going to give you the whole story, because -- well, you know, you're only half of the relationship. You're missing half the story.
Go talk to your girlfriend. Actually listen to what she says.
posted by joyceanmachine at 3:41 PM on November 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
I wish I could leave my hangups behind and think "eh, it's just sex"
Is it "sex", though? Obviously you're aware of what website it is and all the contextual things that apply. And you sort of touched on this upthread a little. But it bothers me that "unclothed body" = "sex" here, with little or no wiggle room. Would you be as upset if you found out she'd been to a nude beach? Or signed up for a burlesque performance workshop? Or got a tattoo that required exposing sensitive bits to a tattoo artist?
Obviously you have every right to feel upset, and to need to talk to your girlfriend about boundaries. But is there room for this to not be a sex thing and just to be a body thing?
posted by Sara C. at 3:46 PM on November 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
Is it "sex", though? Obviously you're aware of what website it is and all the contextual things that apply. And you sort of touched on this upthread a little. But it bothers me that "unclothed body" = "sex" here, with little or no wiggle room. Would you be as upset if you found out she'd been to a nude beach? Or signed up for a burlesque performance workshop? Or got a tattoo that required exposing sensitive bits to a tattoo artist?
Obviously you have every right to feel upset, and to need to talk to your girlfriend about boundaries. But is there room for this to not be a sex thing and just to be a body thing?
posted by Sara C. at 3:46 PM on November 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
Would you be as upset if you found out she'd been to a nude beach? Or signed up for a burlesque performance workshop? Or got a tattoo that required exposing sensitive bits to a tattoo artist?
I think all of these questions need the following appended "while you have been dating and without telling you?"
This isn't really about sex, it's about boundaries and what's acceptable for partners to do without communicating with their partners within the confines of that particular relationship. If some other people on the internet tell you "nah, I'd be totally cool with that" or "get your laws off her body grar" it really is apropos of nothing. It all matters how it makes you feel, how what you feel makes her feel, and what you decide to do about it.
posted by proj at 3:52 PM on November 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
I think all of these questions need the following appended "while you have been dating and without telling you?"
This isn't really about sex, it's about boundaries and what's acceptable for partners to do without communicating with their partners within the confines of that particular relationship. If some other people on the internet tell you "nah, I'd be totally cool with that" or "get your laws off her body grar" it really is apropos of nothing. It all matters how it makes you feel, how what you feel makes her feel, and what you decide to do about it.
posted by proj at 3:52 PM on November 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
J. Wilson: There's a sense in which she's obviously having a sexual relationship with other people via the internet.
No, there isn't. I mean, having sat here and thought about it I can see how you might say that but from where I sit that's a borderline insane thing to say about posting a pic to a gallery.
The problem is that this is a multi-faceted ball - sort of a dodecahedron sort of thing. People are peering at the same centre and seeing it from 12 different perspectives. You see it that way; I can't even fathom that view. But the real issue is that doompuppy and his girlfriend aren't seeing it from even adjoining faces. They may simply have totally different views of the same event, each as real and legitimate as the other but ultimately incompatible.
Basically, doompuppy, I think you want us to tell you that your girlfriend did something wrong. I don't think she did. I think she may have done something you can't live with because the two of you have different functional definitions of privacy. That's not a flaw of hers, or even of yours; it's just different people being different.
posted by DarlingBri at 3:56 PM on November 16, 2010 [15 favorites]
No, there isn't. I mean, having sat here and thought about it I can see how you might say that but from where I sit that's a borderline insane thing to say about posting a pic to a gallery.
The problem is that this is a multi-faceted ball - sort of a dodecahedron sort of thing. People are peering at the same centre and seeing it from 12 different perspectives. You see it that way; I can't even fathom that view. But the real issue is that doompuppy and his girlfriend aren't seeing it from even adjoining faces. They may simply have totally different views of the same event, each as real and legitimate as the other but ultimately incompatible.
Basically, doompuppy, I think you want us to tell you that your girlfriend did something wrong. I don't think she did. I think she may have done something you can't live with because the two of you have different functional definitions of privacy. That's not a flaw of hers, or even of yours; it's just different people being different.
posted by DarlingBri at 3:56 PM on November 16, 2010 [15 favorites]
You clearly have very strong feelings here, and I don't blame you. At the same time, there are a number of commenters saying "i dont see this the same way you do." What this means is that posting those pics isn't like, say, murder, where it is unequivocably bad. There is some gray area here, depending on your mutual expectations, what nudity and exhibitionism mean to her, and what intimacy and monogamy mean to you both.
So while accepting that you feel however you feel (and I might feel the same in your shoes, or I might not, I don't know enough), I would not bring it up like "you did this, it's Wrong, and you are Bad." I'd frame it as "I have an issue with this because I believe the way a relationship should be is _____. I had this unspoken assumption that ____. When I saw this I thought '____' and I felt _____. Obviously your body and your sexuality belong to you, and you have the right to your own opinion about how relationships should be and what monogamy looks like. I'm not sure your view is one I can live with or not, but let's talk this out."
Then go from there, maybe with the goal of ironing out whatever lack of communication caused her to think this was fine and caused you to think it is not fine. I'd decide what you want out of the conversation. And I'd make sure that what you want isn't to punish her for the feelings of discomfort that you're having now.
I personally believe that it's her body, and that shared sexuality is a subset of a person's sexuality, and that a person's sexuality is a subset of what public nudity might mean to them. But you're not dating me, so you and I don't have to agree on this. :) Just know that people have different views, so it's a bit unfair to expect that she would know your view and share it, if you never discussed this. On the other hand she might believe this is cheating and be doing this to break up the relationship. A lot of this depends on how she sees this activity, which is why I think you should go in prepared to listen and really try to understand.
posted by salvia at 4:01 PM on November 16, 2010 [7 favorites]
So while accepting that you feel however you feel (and I might feel the same in your shoes, or I might not, I don't know enough), I would not bring it up like "you did this, it's Wrong, and you are Bad." I'd frame it as "I have an issue with this because I believe the way a relationship should be is _____. I had this unspoken assumption that ____. When I saw this I thought '____' and I felt _____. Obviously your body and your sexuality belong to you, and you have the right to your own opinion about how relationships should be and what monogamy looks like. I'm not sure your view is one I can live with or not, but let's talk this out."
Then go from there, maybe with the goal of ironing out whatever lack of communication caused her to think this was fine and caused you to think it is not fine. I'd decide what you want out of the conversation. And I'd make sure that what you want isn't to punish her for the feelings of discomfort that you're having now.
I personally believe that it's her body, and that shared sexuality is a subset of a person's sexuality, and that a person's sexuality is a subset of what public nudity might mean to them. But you're not dating me, so you and I don't have to agree on this. :) Just know that people have different views, so it's a bit unfair to expect that she would know your view and share it, if you never discussed this. On the other hand she might believe this is cheating and be doing this to break up the relationship. A lot of this depends on how she sees this activity, which is why I think you should go in prepared to listen and really try to understand.
posted by salvia at 4:01 PM on November 16, 2010 [7 favorites]
I think all of these questions need the following appended "while you have been dating and without telling you?"
Of course. But I will volunteer that I would not necessarily run any of those things by my S.O. before doing them. They might come up in conversation because I'm a communicative person and I like to talk with my partners about what I'm up to in life. But if they didn't come up for some reason, I wouldn't feel like I needed permission.
posted by Sara C. at 4:03 PM on November 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
Of course. But I will volunteer that I would not necessarily run any of those things by my S.O. before doing them. They might come up in conversation because I'm a communicative person and I like to talk with my partners about what I'm up to in life. But if they didn't come up for some reason, I wouldn't feel like I needed permission.
posted by Sara C. at 4:03 PM on November 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
Sara C. (and eveyone else going off on the her-body-belongs-to-her-and-she-can-do-what-she-wants tangent), I don't think the OP has said, anywhere in this post, "She didn't ask my permission," or, "I forbid her to do this." He hasn't implied anywhere that he feels he owns his girlfriend; in fact, he has specifically said the opposite.
He's upset because he felt their relationship was one thing, and now he has found it it is something completely different, and he's feeling blind-sided.
And, OP, I think that's a completely normal reaction to have, given the circumstances.
If your girlfriend had, for a completely hypothetical example, found a pic of you on a website dressed up as woman and she had no idea you were a crossdresser, she would feel the same way, startled and hurt that there was this side of you she didn't know about.
It doesn't have anything to do with "owning" anyone. It doesn't have to involve any kind of judgment whatsoever. Rather, it is a question of thinking a person is one way and having your perceptions radically shifted.
So, yes, go talk to your girlfriend about this. If I might make a suggestion, please think hard about what you are going to say and how you are going to say it. I don't think you want to come out like this is an accusation, "Look what you DID! Explain yourself!"
Instead, sit down, explain that you went on a website and found her picture, and then STOP TALKING and let her tell you, herself, what her motivations were in posting it.
posted by misha at 4:35 PM on November 16, 2010 [4 favorites]
He's upset because he felt their relationship was one thing, and now he has found it it is something completely different, and he's feeling blind-sided.
And, OP, I think that's a completely normal reaction to have, given the circumstances.
If your girlfriend had, for a completely hypothetical example, found a pic of you on a website dressed up as woman and she had no idea you were a crossdresser, she would feel the same way, startled and hurt that there was this side of you she didn't know about.
It doesn't have anything to do with "owning" anyone. It doesn't have to involve any kind of judgment whatsoever. Rather, it is a question of thinking a person is one way and having your perceptions radically shifted.
So, yes, go talk to your girlfriend about this. If I might make a suggestion, please think hard about what you are going to say and how you are going to say it. I don't think you want to come out like this is an accusation, "Look what you DID! Explain yourself!"
Instead, sit down, explain that you went on a website and found her picture, and then STOP TALKING and let her tell you, herself, what her motivations were in posting it.
posted by misha at 4:35 PM on November 16, 2010 [4 favorites]
I don't think that this is anything but a communication issue. I don't have a problem with porn, but if it's not okay for other dudes to wack off to pictures of your naked girlfriend, then why is it ok for you to wack off to naked pictures of other girls?
That being said, I think your concern for lack of communication is totally valid.
posted by MaryDellamorte at 4:41 PM on November 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
That being said, I think your concern for lack of communication is totally valid.
posted by MaryDellamorte at 4:41 PM on November 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
You're not crazy or wrong to feel hurt - I can understand why you would be. But it's also not very helpful for you to lead with your anger here. You two obviously need to have a discussion about this. There are two ways I can see you initiating that discussion.
1 - Start with the anger. The discussion is about how she betrayed you and went behind your back and how mad you are. You tell her that you're hurt so that she'll feel bad and know she did something wrong.
2 - This is a conversation about clarifying heretofore mismatched expectations on both of your part. You both have a different sense of what's appropriate in a relationship, and you're trying to get on the same page. You tell her that you're hurt so she understands why this matters so much to you, and why it's so important for both of you to come together to figure this out.
I'm not interested in telling you which of the two I think is right, but I think #2 clearly has a better chance of being successful. If you need help getting to #2, look at the wide variety of responses to your question - this issue is probably a lot murkier than you initially thought.
Good luck!
posted by Ragged Richard at 4:41 PM on November 16, 2010
1 - Start with the anger. The discussion is about how she betrayed you and went behind your back and how mad you are. You tell her that you're hurt so that she'll feel bad and know she did something wrong.
2 - This is a conversation about clarifying heretofore mismatched expectations on both of your part. You both have a different sense of what's appropriate in a relationship, and you're trying to get on the same page. You tell her that you're hurt so she understands why this matters so much to you, and why it's so important for both of you to come together to figure this out.
I'm not interested in telling you which of the two I think is right, but I think #2 clearly has a better chance of being successful. If you need help getting to #2, look at the wide variety of responses to your question - this issue is probably a lot murkier than you initially thought.
Good luck!
posted by Ragged Richard at 4:41 PM on November 16, 2010
doompuppy, I know there are a lot of responses in this thread, and it's tough to respond to all of the questions that have been raised. But I think it would help us answer your question if you provided more information about what type of site your girlfriend posted this photo to. You don't have to give us anything like a link to the photo, or even a link to the site the photo is on—and no one's asking you to. But if you could characterize the type of site it is, I think that would help.
A couple of different respondents have asked about this:
As Metroid Baby asked: Is it a sexy-flirty-for-fun site, or is it a body-acceptance sort of community, the kind of place where people are like "here's what I look like at this age and BMI and here are my various dimples and I've finally learned to love myself"? Those are different stories.
And as ohsnapdragon asked: Was this on Reddit? I almost did this once. I stumbled upon the specific subreddit - it seemed so great! All these people happy about their bodies! Everyone that posted got tons of compliments! People wanted to see me and tell me I was beautiful! I would be part of a community in this really intimate, free, happy way!
Neither poster was asking for prurient reasons—they were asking because where she posted the photo makes a difference. While posting nude photos online is a clear black-or-white, yes-or-no thing to some (perhaps to you?), it isn't to everyone (perhaps not to your girlfriend, for instance). Given that there are entire communities out there devoted to helping people understand what different body types look like and/or helping people feel better about the way their bodies look—despite the fact that some people may use these sites for their own prurient interests—there are genuine reasons why someone might post their photo on one of these sites for therapeutic benefit, or to help others gain therapeutic benefit. So it would be good to know whether that was the type of site she posted to, or whether it was a more prurient venue. That would, in my mind, greatly help determine your response to this.
A related question, to me, is whether this was a full-body nude shot or a headless nude photo. I'm guessing, since you so readily recognized her, it was likely a full-body nude? But it would still be relevant to know one way or another for sure; personally, I think there's a big difference between posting an anonymized nude photo of oneself and a completely identifiable, shareable-with-anyone-you-know nude photo of oneself.
Whatever the case may be, it's understandable that you'd be upset about this, and it's not wrong to feel hurt. Those are your emotions, and they're not "wrong" or "right"; they are what they are. This is definitely an occasion for discussion on multiple fronts. But I think you need to think things through a bit before any confrontation with her about this. And actually, "confrontation" is probably not at all the way to go—the noun here should be more like "calm discussion."
The statement you made that troubles me is this:
I might be able to cope with it if she talked with me about it first and I understood, but I don't - and she did it behind my back - and that's incredibly hurtful to me.
What's done is done—she's posted the photo. So it's up to you now: Are you going to cope with it or not? And if you choose to go the difficult route of dealing with it, how are you going to handle it? You need to think through your goals in talking this through with her: Do you want to express that you feel hurt and betrayed by her posting this? OK, good. I can see expressing that, clarifying your expected boundaries in the relationship, and then giving her floor time to explain her thought process when she posted the photo and what her expected boundaries in the relationship are. From there, instead of seguing directly to the conversation's finale and seeking an apology and/or some redress from her and/or throwing down any other sort of conversational gauntlet, I would make sure to actually ask her the questions you posed to us:
Am I not making her feel sexy enough, so she needs reassurance from others? Does she have exhibitionist tendencies that she just doesn't feel comfortable discussing with me?
That's the "paperwork" you have to file to be let off the hook here, because this is about both of you, and how you interact, and what the shared boundaries of your relationship are. If those boundaries have heretofore just been assumed, this is the time to clarify them. Then, if you clarify those boundaries and they are again transgressed, that's the time when you have to decide whether to cut and run. If you can't have this discussion with her, though—whether because you can't bring yourself to, or because she won't take part—then that's a problem.
posted by limeonaire at 4:48 PM on November 16, 2010
A couple of different respondents have asked about this:
As Metroid Baby asked: Is it a sexy-flirty-for-fun site, or is it a body-acceptance sort of community, the kind of place where people are like "here's what I look like at this age and BMI and here are my various dimples and I've finally learned to love myself"? Those are different stories.
And as ohsnapdragon asked: Was this on Reddit? I almost did this once. I stumbled upon the specific subreddit - it seemed so great! All these people happy about their bodies! Everyone that posted got tons of compliments! People wanted to see me and tell me I was beautiful! I would be part of a community in this really intimate, free, happy way!
Neither poster was asking for prurient reasons—they were asking because where she posted the photo makes a difference. While posting nude photos online is a clear black-or-white, yes-or-no thing to some (perhaps to you?), it isn't to everyone (perhaps not to your girlfriend, for instance). Given that there are entire communities out there devoted to helping people understand what different body types look like and/or helping people feel better about the way their bodies look—despite the fact that some people may use these sites for their own prurient interests—there are genuine reasons why someone might post their photo on one of these sites for therapeutic benefit, or to help others gain therapeutic benefit. So it would be good to know whether that was the type of site she posted to, or whether it was a more prurient venue. That would, in my mind, greatly help determine your response to this.
A related question, to me, is whether this was a full-body nude shot or a headless nude photo. I'm guessing, since you so readily recognized her, it was likely a full-body nude? But it would still be relevant to know one way or another for sure; personally, I think there's a big difference between posting an anonymized nude photo of oneself and a completely identifiable, shareable-with-anyone-you-know nude photo of oneself.
Whatever the case may be, it's understandable that you'd be upset about this, and it's not wrong to feel hurt. Those are your emotions, and they're not "wrong" or "right"; they are what they are. This is definitely an occasion for discussion on multiple fronts. But I think you need to think things through a bit before any confrontation with her about this. And actually, "confrontation" is probably not at all the way to go—the noun here should be more like "calm discussion."
The statement you made that troubles me is this:
I might be able to cope with it if she talked with me about it first and I understood, but I don't - and she did it behind my back - and that's incredibly hurtful to me.
What's done is done—she's posted the photo. So it's up to you now: Are you going to cope with it or not? And if you choose to go the difficult route of dealing with it, how are you going to handle it? You need to think through your goals in talking this through with her: Do you want to express that you feel hurt and betrayed by her posting this? OK, good. I can see expressing that, clarifying your expected boundaries in the relationship, and then giving her floor time to explain her thought process when she posted the photo and what her expected boundaries in the relationship are. From there, instead of seguing directly to the conversation's finale and seeking an apology and/or some redress from her and/or throwing down any other sort of conversational gauntlet, I would make sure to actually ask her the questions you posed to us:
Am I not making her feel sexy enough, so she needs reassurance from others? Does she have exhibitionist tendencies that she just doesn't feel comfortable discussing with me?
That's the "paperwork" you have to file to be let off the hook here, because this is about both of you, and how you interact, and what the shared boundaries of your relationship are. If those boundaries have heretofore just been assumed, this is the time to clarify them. Then, if you clarify those boundaries and they are again transgressed, that's the time when you have to decide whether to cut and run. If you can't have this discussion with her, though—whether because you can't bring yourself to, or because she won't take part—then that's a problem.
posted by limeonaire at 4:48 PM on November 16, 2010
Am I crazy and/or wrong to feel this hurt?
Unless you had previously had a conversation in which you specifically stated it would be cheating for anyone else to see her naked, yes.
I personally feel - and she has every right to disagree - that showing your nude body to other people (strangers or people you know) is a violation of trust against your significant other.
And does she know this?
posted by Lobster Garden at 4:48 PM on November 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
Unless you had previously had a conversation in which you specifically stated it would be cheating for anyone else to see her naked, yes.
I personally feel - and she has every right to disagree - that showing your nude body to other people (strangers or people you know) is a violation of trust against your significant other.
And does she know this?
posted by Lobster Garden at 4:48 PM on November 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
When I read this I thought it's her wanting confirmation that she's sexy, from a general anonymous population. Not to belittle your own opinion of her, because your opinion is really what should count most, but the nonpartisan approval is a much deeper appeal to her vanity.
Now I totally get why you're feeling betrayed in all of this, which is completely fair. And yeah, the lack of communication there should be brought up in conversation, soon. You asked above for some understanding of why she did it, though.
posted by lizbunny at 4:52 PM on November 16, 2010
Now I totally get why you're feeling betrayed in all of this, which is completely fair. And yeah, the lack of communication there should be brought up in conversation, soon. You asked above for some understanding of why she did it, though.
posted by lizbunny at 4:52 PM on November 16, 2010
I remember your older post about your girlfriend, and agree with everyone above who said that you two have communication issues: in particular, your unwillingness to ask her why she does the things she does. The biggest part of this question is you asking us why she would do this. No one here can possibly know that, and until you do, you have no way of knowing how to proceed.
It is a crummy thing to discover, but she doesn't have to ask your permission or talk to you about it beforehand. What you need to find out is why she decided not to talk to you about it, and we can't answer that.
posted by oneirodynia at 4:52 PM on November 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
It is a crummy thing to discover, but she doesn't have to ask your permission or talk to you about it beforehand. What you need to find out is why she decided not to talk to you about it, and we can't answer that.
posted by oneirodynia at 4:52 PM on November 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
If you can't have this discussion with her, though—whether because you can't bring yourself to, or because she won't take part—then that's a problem.
But again, to clarify, whether you can have this conversation greatly depends on how you approach it. And I would go with what many other posters above have said and note that you need to have a really good idea of what you hope to express and what you hope to gain by this conversation.
posted by limeonaire at 4:53 PM on November 16, 2010
But again, to clarify, whether you can have this conversation greatly depends on how you approach it. And I would go with what many other posters above have said and note that you need to have a really good idea of what you hope to express and what you hope to gain by this conversation.
posted by limeonaire at 4:53 PM on November 16, 2010
DarlingBri: No, there isn't. I mean, having sat here and thought about it I can see how you might say that but from where I sit that's a borderline insane thing to say about posting a pic to a gallery.
I said "there's a sense in which" that's true, rather than the fact that it is true, for a reason.
But if the website is what you're describing, I take back my comment about a sexual relationship with other people via the internet. I pictured an online community in which the users have at least online relationships with each other and they are also sharing their naked pictures with each other. Something like MeFi with a significantly smaller user base. You're describing something closer to anonymous naked pictures among a slew of other naked pictures -- the main difference being the existence or lack of a relationship with the other members.
posted by J. Wilson at 4:55 PM on November 16, 2010
I said "there's a sense in which" that's true, rather than the fact that it is true, for a reason.
But if the website is what you're describing, I take back my comment about a sexual relationship with other people via the internet. I pictured an online community in which the users have at least online relationships with each other and they are also sharing their naked pictures with each other. Something like MeFi with a significantly smaller user base. You're describing something closer to anonymous naked pictures among a slew of other naked pictures -- the main difference being the existence or lack of a relationship with the other members.
posted by J. Wilson at 4:55 PM on November 16, 2010
You are already bothered by it. Is it wrong? Of course not. Is it causing you stress? Yes. The question is what do you do from now on.
Can't hate your gf because hating love does not make. You can however communicate your surprise to her and get her side of the story. Seems like she's a part of community that does this and it's not a big deal (to her).
Also, it is not about you not being enough in some way. Most likely it meets some basic human needs, like the need to express herself, to belong (to the community), to feel sexy, to feel appreciated.
Try to keep an open attitude and you may be pleasantly surprised.
posted by andreinla at 5:04 PM on November 16, 2010
Can't hate your gf because hating love does not make. You can however communicate your surprise to her and get her side of the story. Seems like she's a part of community that does this and it's not a big deal (to her).
Also, it is not about you not being enough in some way. Most likely it meets some basic human needs, like the need to express herself, to belong (to the community), to feel sexy, to feel appreciated.
Try to keep an open attitude and you may be pleasantly surprised.
posted by andreinla at 5:04 PM on November 16, 2010
Also, you say
Our sexuality is OURS.
Are you sure she thinks the same way? Unless you've specifically made an agreement, I suggest you find out. Otherwise you feel betrayed because you made a presumption.
posted by andreinla at 5:05 PM on November 16, 2010
Our sexuality is OURS.
Are you sure she thinks the same way? Unless you've specifically made an agreement, I suggest you find out. Otherwise you feel betrayed because you made a presumption.
posted by andreinla at 5:05 PM on November 16, 2010
Current US society deems that we should be normal and fit in. It is also deemed that one should hide or otherwise be ashamed of that which is considered outside the norm. I should not be surprised that your girlfriend is not forthcoming about this. I would expect her motivations to be in different categories than you suspect, so yes, have a talk, but better yet, open things up for you to have a listen.
posted by plinth at 5:23 PM on November 16, 2010
posted by plinth at 5:23 PM on November 16, 2010
I think your problem is that you don't know why she did it.
Frankly the most distressing reason is that she could be fishing for feedback ("I've been in a relationship for a long time, am I still sexy to other men?") to gather confidence before she jumps ship. If this is the case then she's not likely to be truthful to you if confronted.
Or she could just have body image issues and need loads of anonymous validation (weird but OK) or may have some exhibitionism tendencies.
Some of those reasons may be acceptable to you and obviously others not. Whatever, you need to get to the crux of the problem to resolve it and decide how to proceed.
In my experience good relationships rest not only on trust but courtesy. Of course she didn't need your permission or even approval to show the internet her stuff, but in the interest of relationship "housekeeping" she should have told you and offered an explanation before she did it. It sounds like she might be one of those people that needs to work on some of her own issues before she can be a considerate partner.
posted by red_lotus at 5:43 PM on November 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
Frankly the most distressing reason is that she could be fishing for feedback ("I've been in a relationship for a long time, am I still sexy to other men?") to gather confidence before she jumps ship. If this is the case then she's not likely to be truthful to you if confronted.
Or she could just have body image issues and need loads of anonymous validation (weird but OK) or may have some exhibitionism tendencies.
Some of those reasons may be acceptable to you and obviously others not. Whatever, you need to get to the crux of the problem to resolve it and decide how to proceed.
In my experience good relationships rest not only on trust but courtesy. Of course she didn't need your permission or even approval to show the internet her stuff, but in the interest of relationship "housekeeping" she should have told you and offered an explanation before she did it. It sounds like she might be one of those people that needs to work on some of her own issues before she can be a considerate partner.
posted by red_lotus at 5:43 PM on November 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
I wouldn't care if a partner of mine posted a nude picture of themselves on-line that was not intended to solicit interaction with private individuals; given that I wouldn't care about that, I can see not feeling the need to mention my posting a nude photo of myself. I probably would, but I might, depending on the why and where of the picture, prefer to keep it a private thing and then not mention it, and I would not feel I had done anything wrong as far as my relationship went.
I am very surprised to find so many people feeling differently here. (Perhaps that's why I'm not in a relationship...) Anyway, I throw that out there in case your girlfriend is bent like me, and will not even understand your upset over this, which I imagine she may feel has absolutely nothing to do with sex. Yes, you should talk to her and tell her it made you upset, but be prepared for a blank look and no understanding.
posted by kmennie at 5:47 PM on November 16, 2010
I am very surprised to find so many people feeling differently here. (Perhaps that's why I'm not in a relationship...) Anyway, I throw that out there in case your girlfriend is bent like me, and will not even understand your upset over this, which I imagine she may feel has absolutely nothing to do with sex. Yes, you should talk to her and tell her it made you upset, but be prepared for a blank look and no understanding.
posted by kmennie at 5:47 PM on November 16, 2010
Response by poster: Okay, I have an update and some comments... First though, thank you very much for all of the responses... it helped a lot... if nothing else to make me keep my cool and get some resolve before talking to her...
I do need to say something though: to all of the "you're a square and she's a free spirit" sort of people: While it's partially my fault for not being more clear that we had at least somewhat established boundaries with each other -- we've talked about our sexuality before, we've talked about certain things we consider to be infidelity, and while we hadn't explicitly defined "posting naked pics of yourself on the internet is infidelity" -- we HAVE talked about not wanting other people seeing us nude...
I also fully understand that everyone's sexuality is different. Polyamory, exhibitionism, BDSM - they're all things I "get" - I don't want to participate in them - but I respect that consensual adults can and should be able to do whatever the heck they want in and out of bed so long as it's not hurting someone else.
Okay, with that out of the way...
I talked to her. We just got off the phone. Yes, it shouldn't have happened on the phone, but it had to for varying reasons.
I may not have approached it in the best possible way - but I did try to make it clear that I didn't think less of her for making the post, or think that said anything about her or her sexuality. My concern was that she felt the need to do it behind my back - and that she didn't take my feelings into consideration.
We've half-jokingly talked about "nobody else getting to see your naughty bits" - in a way that I am certain had some sincerity to it despite sounding joke-ish. Boundaries were not unclear.
In talking to her - she acknowledges also that boundaries were not unclear, and she fully understands that this was outside of those boundaries. While on one hand she views it as a "simple little thing", she does vocalize regret for hurting my feelings, and acknowledge that it's something she should have been open with me about.
In fact, she says her motivation for posting it was that she was having a down-on-herself night with her self esteem, and so she spontaneously decided to try it out... basically acknowledging that she was just looking for anonymous approval / validation.... I explained that if she's feeling down on herself, she should know that I'm someone that she can lean on to help her feel better... Not "the only one" -- but someone.... I realize I am not her entire world.
While all of this makes logical sense, it doesn't immediately make any of this "easy" for me to process. I'm hurt. I feel better that we've talked about it, but this combined with a few other things we talked about tonight has me worried about trust with her. It's something we've mutually agreed to work on -- how we do that I'm not quite sure. Is there a 12 step program we can do or something? I dunno.
I really do love this girl, and I do feel that our problems relate to communication, and that they're fixable. I have my concerns that they might not be, but I do feel it's worth trying, and I don't have any preconceived notions of how this will all go. I think if we can just break down a few walls of communication and remember that there's nothing either of us needs to be embarrassed about with each other, that this can work.
Time will tell... but I wanted to give an update and thank you all for the responses... I'm a bit put off by some of the assumptions that have been made about what an uptight codger I must be - but I suppose that's par for the course on a community like MeFi that, while awesome, does have its share of very opinionated people just looking for a place to talk about that opinion...
posted by doompuppy at 5:49 PM on November 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
I do need to say something though: to all of the "you're a square and she's a free spirit" sort of people: While it's partially my fault for not being more clear that we had at least somewhat established boundaries with each other -- we've talked about our sexuality before, we've talked about certain things we consider to be infidelity, and while we hadn't explicitly defined "posting naked pics of yourself on the internet is infidelity" -- we HAVE talked about not wanting other people seeing us nude...
I also fully understand that everyone's sexuality is different. Polyamory, exhibitionism, BDSM - they're all things I "get" - I don't want to participate in them - but I respect that consensual adults can and should be able to do whatever the heck they want in and out of bed so long as it's not hurting someone else.
Okay, with that out of the way...
I talked to her. We just got off the phone. Yes, it shouldn't have happened on the phone, but it had to for varying reasons.
I may not have approached it in the best possible way - but I did try to make it clear that I didn't think less of her for making the post, or think that said anything about her or her sexuality. My concern was that she felt the need to do it behind my back - and that she didn't take my feelings into consideration.
We've half-jokingly talked about "nobody else getting to see your naughty bits" - in a way that I am certain had some sincerity to it despite sounding joke-ish. Boundaries were not unclear.
In talking to her - she acknowledges also that boundaries were not unclear, and she fully understands that this was outside of those boundaries. While on one hand she views it as a "simple little thing", she does vocalize regret for hurting my feelings, and acknowledge that it's something she should have been open with me about.
In fact, she says her motivation for posting it was that she was having a down-on-herself night with her self esteem, and so she spontaneously decided to try it out... basically acknowledging that she was just looking for anonymous approval / validation.... I explained that if she's feeling down on herself, she should know that I'm someone that she can lean on to help her feel better... Not "the only one" -- but someone.... I realize I am not her entire world.
While all of this makes logical sense, it doesn't immediately make any of this "easy" for me to process. I'm hurt. I feel better that we've talked about it, but this combined with a few other things we talked about tonight has me worried about trust with her. It's something we've mutually agreed to work on -- how we do that I'm not quite sure. Is there a 12 step program we can do or something? I dunno.
I really do love this girl, and I do feel that our problems relate to communication, and that they're fixable. I have my concerns that they might not be, but I do feel it's worth trying, and I don't have any preconceived notions of how this will all go. I think if we can just break down a few walls of communication and remember that there's nothing either of us needs to be embarrassed about with each other, that this can work.
Time will tell... but I wanted to give an update and thank you all for the responses... I'm a bit put off by some of the assumptions that have been made about what an uptight codger I must be - but I suppose that's par for the course on a community like MeFi that, while awesome, does have its share of very opinionated people just looking for a place to talk about that opinion...
posted by doompuppy at 5:49 PM on November 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
I think it's great that you and she have talked explicitly and clearly about how this felt to you like a violation of boundaries you had expressed. That's the important thing here--what works for the two of you and for your relationship, and how you guys negotiate it.
OTOH, doompuppy, I think people might have been responding negatively to what they perceived (and presumably misperceived) as your framing the situation in general and universal terms, rather than talking about your specific issues, concerns, and feelings.
I just asked my husband if he would feel I was cheating on him if I put nude photos on an exhibitionists' site, and he was all "What? No. Why would I?" I don't think his reaction is any more valid than yours, doompuppy, but I don't think that it is any less valid than yours, either.
posted by Sidhedevil at 5:56 PM on November 16, 2010
OTOH, doompuppy, I think people might have been responding negatively to what they perceived (and presumably misperceived) as your framing the situation in general and universal terms, rather than talking about your specific issues, concerns, and feelings.
I just asked my husband if he would feel I was cheating on him if I put nude photos on an exhibitionists' site, and he was all "What? No. Why would I?" I don't think his reaction is any more valid than yours, doompuppy, but I don't think that it is any less valid than yours, either.
posted by Sidhedevil at 5:56 PM on November 16, 2010
Response by poster: I just asked my husband if he would feel I was cheating on him if I put nude photos on an exhibitionists' site, and he was all "What? No. Why would I?" I don't think his reaction is any more valid than yours, doompuppy, but I don't think that it is any less valid than yours, either.
You're absolutely right - and I admitted to failing to make that more obvious -- that we already know each other well enough to know that either of us posting nudes on the internet would probably bother the other person and that it had at least somewhat been put into words...
I was just bothered at the harshness of some of the responses that seemed to be able to be shortened into "not everyone is as uptight as you about sex, dumbass!" - in varying degrees of severity.
posted by doompuppy at 5:59 PM on November 16, 2010
You're absolutely right - and I admitted to failing to make that more obvious -- that we already know each other well enough to know that either of us posting nudes on the internet would probably bother the other person and that it had at least somewhat been put into words...
I was just bothered at the harshness of some of the responses that seemed to be able to be shortened into "not everyone is as uptight as you about sex, dumbass!" - in varying degrees of severity.
posted by doompuppy at 5:59 PM on November 16, 2010
I think it is a good thing that you talked, and figured some stuff out. However, you keep using phrases like would probably bother the other person and somewhat been put into words and We've half-jokingly talked- these are not clear lines in the sand, you understand? None of those phrases are unambiguous, and if you're talking about boundaries that's not the best way to communicate.
posted by oneirodynia at 6:42 PM on November 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by oneirodynia at 6:42 PM on November 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
I don't think you're uptight; and I don't think your girlfriend betrayed you by doing this. However, I think your girlfriend may have some emotional problems you might want to think about. Posting a nekkid picture of yourself online is not a common coping mechanism for feeling sad, nor is it really a healthy expression or exploration of sexuality. It's ah, kind of weird, but not in a good way. It suggests she's looking for sexual attention from others to feel better about herself. I would be disturbed if my partner did something like that.
posted by yarly at 7:15 PM on November 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by yarly at 7:15 PM on November 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
You might want to consider the fact that she might find the thought of you airing her dirty laundry on an advice site extremely off-putting - almost as off-putting as her posting nude pictures on the internet.
posted by theraflu at 8:05 PM on November 16, 2010 [10 favorites]
posted by theraflu at 8:05 PM on November 16, 2010 [10 favorites]
To be clear, I wasn't calling you uptight (if you count me with that crew). I wasn't judging your position along the spectrum from uptight to [not uptight]. I just wanted to point out, in case it wasn't obvious already, that people are all along that spectrum, and she is probably at a different space along that spectrum (no two people being exactly the same), and that if your conversation held open a space for you two to differ there, that would be better. As Sidhedevil said, to me it was more about an assumption of universality.
Now, if you two truly did make a commitment on this, you are in an interesting spot. Why would she make a commitment then break it? Did she not truly agree to the commitment deep down? Maybe she didn't feel she had a choice or speak her real thoughts on the matter? Or maybe she gets a thrill out of breaking commitments? Or maybe there's some more complicated balance of desires?
posted by salvia at 10:48 PM on November 16, 2010
Now, if you two truly did make a commitment on this, you are in an interesting spot. Why would she make a commitment then break it? Did she not truly agree to the commitment deep down? Maybe she didn't feel she had a choice or speak her real thoughts on the matter? Or maybe she gets a thrill out of breaking commitments? Or maybe there's some more complicated balance of desires?
posted by salvia at 10:48 PM on November 16, 2010
I am probably a bad person for bringing this up, but having looked at the relevant portion of reddit, typically the face is obscured or not present. It's very reminiscent of the old National Lampoon competition that challenged readers to send in pics of their naked girlfriends wearing nothing but a bucket over their heads. If that's the case for reddit gw, and I think it typically is, I don't see this as worrisome exhibition, because the face won't be linked to the body. It's not as if the object of the photo will be recognized. It's like the old riddle -- if for some reason you're naked in public, what's the one area of yourself that you must cover up? Your head: that way, nobody knows it's you. So I don't think this is BAD boundary-crossing of the kind that we would associate with, typically, someone IDENTIFIABLE posting a naked picture of themselves on a website.
Please, someone tell me that this makes a little bit of sense!
posted by Mr. Justice at 11:03 PM on November 16, 2010
Please, someone tell me that this makes a little bit of sense!
posted by Mr. Justice at 11:03 PM on November 16, 2010
i think it's great that you guys have talked about it.
but i hope no other mefites know you, otherwise i really agree with theraflu. if i was your girlfriend, i would be upset about you posting this on mefi.
posted by cheemee at 11:28 PM on November 16, 2010
but i hope no other mefites know you, otherwise i really agree with theraflu. if i was your girlfriend, i would be upset about you posting this on mefi.
posted by cheemee at 11:28 PM on November 16, 2010
Clearly opinions on this differ -- whether or not you should have posted about this, whether or not you and your girlfriend should have discussed her posting, etc. -- however, I will say that I am honestly of the opinion that the "Nah, I'd totally be OK with that" attitude seems to be vastly overrepresented here versus my experience off-site. I'm not even saying that I would have a problem with this, I am just saying that I know that many of my acquaintances would not treat this with the same nonchalance as many here are, and I hang out with a pretty liberal bunch.
posted by proj at 4:37 AM on November 17, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by proj at 4:37 AM on November 17, 2010 [4 favorites]
In GoneWild on Reddit, they basically talk about masturbating to the photo and how hot the person is and how they would have sex with him or her and there is an upvoting thing going on. If, and I mean if, she went there or to a similar site and was seeking that kind of validation, I would have more concerns than if it was a post it and leave it thing. If she's seeking sexual attention outside the relationship and the boundaries set do not allow for that sort of thing, we have a problem, Houston.
posted by Ironmouth at 7:13 AM on November 17, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by Ironmouth at 7:13 AM on November 17, 2010 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: To those concerned my girlfriend might be bothered by my posting here:
This is a throwaway account unassociated with the username I use everywhere. This is also not a site she reads. I also have never met a mefite "IRL", at least not knowingly.
Despite that, I've done my best to keep this reasonably vague and anonymous.
posted by doompuppy at 7:29 AM on November 17, 2010
This is a throwaway account unassociated with the username I use everywhere. This is also not a site she reads. I also have never met a mefite "IRL", at least not knowingly.
Despite that, I've done my best to keep this reasonably vague and anonymous.
posted by doompuppy at 7:29 AM on November 17, 2010
I'm glad you talked to her. As far as rebuilding trust, you can start by improving the communication in your relationship. Would she go to couples counseling? You guys seem like great candidates for it since many of your problems seem to stem from failing to talk about stuff.
And for what it's worth, I have to echo what proj said above about the prevalence of the "it's no big deal" attitude. Honestly, I think it's the kind of position that's easy to take when you're thinking about the situation in abstract terms. Not to say that someone couldn't legitimately think it's no big deal in a real situation, just that it's human nature to believe we would react in the way we view as most enlightened, and that's not always the case in reality. Personally, I would feel the same way you do. To me the default position should be, "Activities in a gray area should be discussed before proceeding," rather than, "Activities in a gray area are A-OK unless explicitly stated otherwise."
posted by spinto at 8:40 AM on November 17, 2010
And for what it's worth, I have to echo what proj said above about the prevalence of the "it's no big deal" attitude. Honestly, I think it's the kind of position that's easy to take when you're thinking about the situation in abstract terms. Not to say that someone couldn't legitimately think it's no big deal in a real situation, just that it's human nature to believe we would react in the way we view as most enlightened, and that's not always the case in reality. Personally, I would feel the same way you do. To me the default position should be, "Activities in a gray area should be discussed before proceeding," rather than, "Activities in a gray area are A-OK unless explicitly stated otherwise."
posted by spinto at 8:40 AM on November 17, 2010
Trust. Note that the OP still seems nervous about trust after discussing this with his GF. And apparently she has trust issues with him, following his reaction and their conversation. The merits of the nude pix aside, trust is the central issue and the one that'll have to be worked on. I'm guessing it won't be easy.
posted by fivesavagepalms at 10:39 AM on November 17, 2010
posted by fivesavagepalms at 10:39 AM on November 17, 2010
Am I crazy and/or wrong to feel this hurt?
No. The way something makes a person feel always counts in a relationship. The question is can you deal with it --?
Lot's of discussion here /good, interesting points. But if it bothers you, no one is going to talk you out of that. You need to talk to her.
posted by marimeko at 12:46 PM on November 17, 2010
No. The way something makes a person feel always counts in a relationship. The question is can you deal with it --?
Lot's of discussion here /good, interesting points. But if it bothers you, no one is going to talk you out of that. You need to talk to her.
posted by marimeko at 12:46 PM on November 17, 2010
Mod note: few comments removed - folks, please email the OP directly if you have concerns for them, otherwise keep comments in this thread out of grar/derail territory, thanks
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 12:58 PM on November 17, 2010
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 12:58 PM on November 17, 2010
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Your girlfriend may or may not initially see it that way and, as always, things will be better if you approach the conversation seeking understanding and without anger. But it's entirely legit for you to be upset.
posted by 256 at 2:24 PM on November 16, 2010 [3 favorites]