Does anyone attempt to breed pets strictly for 'healthiness'?
November 1, 2010 12:47 PM Subscribe
Does anyone attempt to breed housepets strictly for 'healthiness'?
While yes, I know that with all the animals in need of adoption in the universe blah blah blah nobody should buy purebreeds or any animal etc etc etc (and I've already adopted my own stray cats anyway), I was wondering if there's anyone who breeds cats, or dogs, or any housepet-type-animal, specifically for maximum 'healthiness'. Yes, sure, people who want purebred animals, or at least animals that tend to look purebred, often want an animal that looks or behaves like those pure breeds tend to.
However, we (should) all know that pure breeding is often a bad idea because purebred X has crap qualities as a result of pure breeding. But let's say, for example, two (presumably unrelated) humans who are olympic champions decide to propagate and thus create their 'mixed-breed' offspring - it probably increases the chances of bearing another fine athletic specimen... are there folks who specifically do that with pet-species in an attempt to make them more badass, regularly? For example, maybe you'd have a cat who is extremely unlikely to get chronic renal failure as it gets older, awesome coat, muscle tone, etc etc. but how they look in terms of color, overall shape, hair length, etc is just not important?
While yes, I know that with all the animals in need of adoption in the universe blah blah blah nobody should buy purebreeds or any animal etc etc etc (and I've already adopted my own stray cats anyway), I was wondering if there's anyone who breeds cats, or dogs, or any housepet-type-animal, specifically for maximum 'healthiness'. Yes, sure, people who want purebred animals, or at least animals that tend to look purebred, often want an animal that looks or behaves like those pure breeds tend to.
However, we (should) all know that pure breeding is often a bad idea because purebred X has crap qualities as a result of pure breeding. But let's say, for example, two (presumably unrelated) humans who are olympic champions decide to propagate and thus create their 'mixed-breed' offspring - it probably increases the chances of bearing another fine athletic specimen... are there folks who specifically do that with pet-species in an attempt to make them more badass, regularly? For example, maybe you'd have a cat who is extremely unlikely to get chronic renal failure as it gets older, awesome coat, muscle tone, etc etc. but how they look in terms of color, overall shape, hair length, etc is just not important?
Wikipedia suggests that the term to be looking for is crossbreed (as opposed to mixed-breed). I think that most of the established crossbreeders produce dogs for sporting and hunting. Lurchers and longdogs come to mind; for example, crossing a saluki and a greyhound to get a dog with better stamina and speed.
posted by specialagentwebb at 12:58 PM on November 1, 2010
posted by specialagentwebb at 12:58 PM on November 1, 2010
I'm actually very much for buying dogs from breeders rather than adopting from a shelter. Good, responsible breeders will not only breed their dogs to try and produce dog show champions but will try to breed genetic health problems out of the breed entirely. The good one also try not to let their dogs go to owners who aren't right for that breed to lower the chances of that dog and those owners not being happy and the dog ending up in a shelter. I'm convinced that everyone who wanted a dog did their research and found the breed most likely to fit their lifestyle and personality and only obtained their dogs from good, responsible breeders (and those breeders held up their end of the bargain) most animal shelters would be empty.
A lot of the genetically inherited health problems in dogs come over-breeding. A breed shows up in a movie or something and gets wildly popular and then these "puppy-mills" start up that start cranking out dogs without worrying about what happens to them or the breed and they end up propagating a lot of negative traits and the dogs end up in shelters.
It sucks but unless you are experienced with dogs and have the room and lifestyle for them, you and the dogs (eventually) are better off ignoring shelters. Do your homework and get your pet from a good breeder instead.
posted by VTX at 1:16 PM on November 1, 2010 [4 favorites]
A lot of the genetically inherited health problems in dogs come over-breeding. A breed shows up in a movie or something and gets wildly popular and then these "puppy-mills" start up that start cranking out dogs without worrying about what happens to them or the breed and they end up propagating a lot of negative traits and the dogs end up in shelters.
It sucks but unless you are experienced with dogs and have the room and lifestyle for them, you and the dogs (eventually) are better off ignoring shelters. Do your homework and get your pet from a good breeder instead.
posted by VTX at 1:16 PM on November 1, 2010 [4 favorites]
Any breed that has to work for a living (and that includes fighting) is going to get this. Sled dogs, for example, don't have to look any particular way but they've got to be able to pull and keep at it and not die in the cold. Used to be, dogs like ratting terriers and sheepdogs, it didn't matter what they looked like, only what they could do (which accounts for the wide range in what is considered a "rat terrier" now).
posted by The otter lady at 1:18 PM on November 1, 2010
posted by The otter lady at 1:18 PM on November 1, 2010
As I understand it, the trend towards breeding animals which are healthy is across the board (at least in the responsible breeders of the cat world).
The australian mist (http://www.australianmist.info/Home.html) is, for example, a recently developed hybrid breed, which tends to produce happy, healthy cats.
posted by ysabet at 1:25 PM on November 1, 2010
The australian mist (http://www.australianmist.info/Home.html) is, for example, a recently developed hybrid breed, which tends to produce happy, healthy cats.
posted by ysabet at 1:25 PM on November 1, 2010
Response by poster: VTX - Oh, I'm not planning on getting a dog anytime soon. But I might consider some kind of super-cat down the road, maybe.
posted by bitterkitten at 1:26 PM on November 1, 2010
posted by bitterkitten at 1:26 PM on November 1, 2010
Forgot to add that (as The otter lady says) purebred greyhounds are bred to be athletes, and so in general live longer than other similar-sized breeds do. They're not prone to some of the large-breed maladies like hip dysplasia or arthritis; on the flip side, which isn't to say that they don't have their own genetic quirks (osteosarcoma, bloat). But then again, they're being bred as workers first, pets second.
posted by specialagentwebb at 1:27 PM on November 1, 2010
posted by specialagentwebb at 1:27 PM on November 1, 2010
Not all purebreds are crap bred. A lot of them are *overbred*. As an example, there's the cocker spaniel, which was the most popular dog in America for 30 years, was bred by everybody and his brother. A lot of dogs ended up being parents that should never have been born in the first place. But if you go looking, you can find responsible breeders of cockers, ones who get the appropriate testing done to the parents, and who produce purebreds who don't nip, nervous pee, develop slipped disks at a young age, or have allergic reactions to everything under the sun.
You just have to go looking for the responsible breeders, rather than the people who breed because their dog has a piece of paper saying it's purebred and "we can make back what we spent on 'em."
You'll find better sources of this than I am--all my dogs are pound puppies--but part of what you want when you go looking for a responsibly bred dog is someone who doesn't breed until all the potential puppies are spoken for. If you find someone who's looking to sell puppies, they started off Doing It Wrong. You'll want to see results of X-ray hip testing. If the breed has known genetic issues, you'll want to see genetic testing. You'll want to know "family" medical histories, not just of parents but also grandparents and other puppies produced by the grandparents. You'll want to see the parents and any other older relatives that you can. You'll want references from people who have *older* dogs bred by the same breeder, not someone who bought their puppy a couple of months ago.
Obviously all the testing and maintaining records doesn't make for cheap puppies, but it's going to be a million times better than the dog who arrives with distemper, very expensively recovers from that, then needs a full hip replacement a couple of years later, or spine surgery, etc.
Mixed breeds, by the way, aren't any healthier than purebreds. If you start with a pair of unhealthy dogs, you're gong to get puppies who have problems too, whether purebred or crossbred.
posted by galadriel at 1:30 PM on November 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
You just have to go looking for the responsible breeders, rather than the people who breed because their dog has a piece of paper saying it's purebred and "we can make back what we spent on 'em."
You'll find better sources of this than I am--all my dogs are pound puppies--but part of what you want when you go looking for a responsibly bred dog is someone who doesn't breed until all the potential puppies are spoken for. If you find someone who's looking to sell puppies, they started off Doing It Wrong. You'll want to see results of X-ray hip testing. If the breed has known genetic issues, you'll want to see genetic testing. You'll want to know "family" medical histories, not just of parents but also grandparents and other puppies produced by the grandparents. You'll want to see the parents and any other older relatives that you can. You'll want references from people who have *older* dogs bred by the same breeder, not someone who bought their puppy a couple of months ago.
Obviously all the testing and maintaining records doesn't make for cheap puppies, but it's going to be a million times better than the dog who arrives with distemper, very expensively recovers from that, then needs a full hip replacement a couple of years later, or spine surgery, etc.
Mixed breeds, by the way, aren't any healthier than purebreds. If you start with a pair of unhealthy dogs, you're gong to get puppies who have problems too, whether purebred or crossbred.
posted by galadriel at 1:30 PM on November 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
The Monks of New Skete have been working on restoring the German Shepard to its past healthy state for years. They have a brilliant training program and (occasionally) sell puppies.
posted by rtimmel at 1:37 PM on November 1, 2010
posted by rtimmel at 1:37 PM on November 1, 2010
Mixed breeds, by the way, aren't any healthier than purebreds.
Wikipedia disagrees. The entry on Mixed-breed dog health is worth reading.
posted by euphorb at 1:38 PM on November 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
Wikipedia disagrees. The entry on Mixed-breed dog health is worth reading.
posted by euphorb at 1:38 PM on November 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
I have a sled dog as a pet and she is fantastically, rudely healthy in comparison to most domestic dogs. Great coat, great teeth, doesn't smell bad, can run all day long, eat anything (literally), smart and not neurotic. A lot of them ate still racing or at least perfectly fit and healthy at age 10-12, most dogs cam barely hobble around.
Totally bonkers though. I think that breeding for docility and whatever gene it is that makes them not eat your couch while you're at work might be tied to some of the common health issues you see in "pet" dogs. As we get more urban dogs have to get more tolerant and require less exercise and stimulation.
posted by fshgrl at 2:04 PM on November 1, 2010
Totally bonkers though. I think that breeding for docility and whatever gene it is that makes them not eat your couch while you're at work might be tied to some of the common health issues you see in "pet" dogs. As we get more urban dogs have to get more tolerant and require less exercise and stimulation.
posted by fshgrl at 2:04 PM on November 1, 2010
Guide Dogs for the Blind has been working very hard to breed for health, temperment, etc. for years. They have an adoption program for dogs that don't make it as Guide Dogs (I did a report on them waaay back in HS and only a couple of puppies make it out of a litter). You can also "adopt" breeding stock. You get the dog most of the time, but bring back for breeding, etc.
I was a "puppy socializer" for a year or so, and that was the best volunteer job ever! Play with puppies for a couple of hours a couple of times a week. Nice way to get a doggie fix when you can't have a dog.
posted by agatha_magatha at 2:23 PM on November 1, 2010
I was a "puppy socializer" for a year or so, and that was the best volunteer job ever! Play with puppies for a couple of hours a couple of times a week. Nice way to get a doggie fix when you can't have a dog.
posted by agatha_magatha at 2:23 PM on November 1, 2010
Mixed breeds, by the way, aren't any healthier than purebreds.
Wikipedia disagrees. The entry on Mixed-breed dog health is worth reading.
No, really, Wikipedia doesn't disagree.
That article says
posted by galadriel at 2:46 PM on November 1, 2010
Wikipedia disagrees. The entry on Mixed-breed dog health is worth reading.
No, really, Wikipedia doesn't disagree.
That article says
In fact, crossbreeding two poor specimens together does not guarantee the resulting offspring will be healthier than the parents because the offspring could inherit the worst traits of both parents.which was exactly my point. You can't assume "purebred=crap breeding" and "crossbred=more healthy." You have to consider the parents of the dog in question, no matter what kind of dog it is. Good pups come from good parents, regardless of the purebred status of the parents.
posted by galadriel at 2:46 PM on November 1, 2010
I bred Tonkinese cats as a kid. It was how I learned about genetics, finances, salesmanship, and of course, responsible care of animals.
Tonks are historically half Siamese/ 1/2 Burmese.
Slightly chatty, but solid, muscular cats with a good sense of humor and a super tolerance for being home alone. Of course, they're moderately social so they like having a cat friend or a person home a lot. Not the best pick if you can only have one and you need to be out of the house All. Weekend. Long. (but also not the worst breed for that.)
Tonks sold as pets are almost always sold with the requirement that a spay/neuter is impending. There is a uterine dysfunction that strikes older cats, which spaying obviously prevents.
posted by bilabial at 3:18 PM on November 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
Tonks are historically half Siamese/ 1/2 Burmese.
Slightly chatty, but solid, muscular cats with a good sense of humor and a super tolerance for being home alone. Of course, they're moderately social so they like having a cat friend or a person home a lot. Not the best pick if you can only have one and you need to be out of the house All. Weekend. Long. (but also not the worst breed for that.)
Tonks sold as pets are almost always sold with the requirement that a spay/neuter is impending. There is a uterine dysfunction that strikes older cats, which spaying obviously prevents.
posted by bilabial at 3:18 PM on November 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
I've recently been looking through information for Bombay cats and one thing that struck me was that none of the information I've found has listed any genetic health issues in the breed. Either my research is faulty or the breeders have been careful to insure that their animals are healthy and robust. Just a data point that perhaps purebred breeders are already doing what you're asking about.
posted by LOLAttorney2009 at 3:26 PM on November 1, 2010
posted by LOLAttorney2009 at 3:26 PM on November 1, 2010
In the dog world, I am a fan of Labradoodles (provided that they come from thoughtful, educated, caring breeder. The breed comes out of Australia were they were bred to be service dogs for people with allergies. They are smart, friendly and very trainable and the emphasis on breeding for services means that there is premium on both health and temperment. You would have to really research the breeder - many people just mate a random poodle and lab and call it a labradoodle.
posted by metahawk at 4:58 PM on November 1, 2010
posted by metahawk at 4:58 PM on November 1, 2010
I'm actually very much for buying dogs from breeders rather than adopting from a shelter. Good, responsible breeders will not only breed their dogs to try and produce dog show champions but will try to breed genetic health problems out of the breed entirely. The good one also try not to let their dogs go to owners who aren't right for that breed to lower the chances of that dog and those owners not being happy and the dog ending up in a shelter. I'm convinced that everyone who wanted a dog did their research and found the breed most likely to fit their lifestyle and personality and only obtained their dogs from good, responsible breeders (and those breeders held up their end of the bargain) most animal shelters would be empty.
Ding ding ding...we breed pure bred dogs and we will not breed any dog that has health problems or aggression issues. In fact, our breed club spends considerable time, money, and effort researching the breed's health problems by sponsoring research studies and diligently works to improve the health of the dogs.
posted by tamitang at 5:06 PM on November 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
Ding ding ding...we breed pure bred dogs and we will not breed any dog that has health problems or aggression issues. In fact, our breed club spends considerable time, money, and effort researching the breed's health problems by sponsoring research studies and diligently works to improve the health of the dogs.
posted by tamitang at 5:06 PM on November 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
Re: dogs and personality: many shelters and some foster organizations do personality assessments on dogs, so you can match dog to lifestyle even if it's not a "breed". In fact, since the individual dog is assessed rather than its breed, you might conjecture that it would be a more individual match.
The ASPCA has a program called "Meet Your Match" which combines dog assessments with an adopter questionnaire to help figure out the best match -- it's not just the dog being assessed. I think it's very interesting, but I haven't actually worked with the dog version (there's a version for adult cats too).
But you asked about health. I've learned recently that sometimes wild/feral cat colonies can become very inbred, leading to weird and distressing health problems. So try to get some sense of the history of the cat you're adopting.
(If you lived in NC, I might try to convince you to adopt one of my current fosters -- he is clearly a supercat! His brothers are just nice kitties.)
posted by amtho at 5:36 PM on November 1, 2010
The ASPCA has a program called "Meet Your Match" which combines dog assessments with an adopter questionnaire to help figure out the best match -- it's not just the dog being assessed. I think it's very interesting, but I haven't actually worked with the dog version (there's a version for adult cats too).
But you asked about health. I've learned recently that sometimes wild/feral cat colonies can become very inbred, leading to weird and distressing health problems. So try to get some sense of the history of the cat you're adopting.
(If you lived in NC, I might try to convince you to adopt one of my current fosters -- he is clearly a supercat! His brothers are just nice kitties.)
posted by amtho at 5:36 PM on November 1, 2010
Rats! Ethical breeders state they are first trying to breed healthy rats with longevity in second place (rats are sadly short lived at approx. two years). What the rat looks like comes in a distant third.
posted by deborah at 6:08 PM on November 1, 2010
posted by deborah at 6:08 PM on November 1, 2010
Some ferret breeders have health as a number one priority.
posted by Mitheral at 6:59 PM on November 1, 2010
posted by Mitheral at 6:59 PM on November 1, 2010
Responsible breeders try to breed for health as well as breed conformity. That said, my experience does not support VTX's comments. I've known lots of people who've done their research for years to find the right breed and the right breeder, and end up with a pet with psychological and/or physical problems. In addition, the predictive power of a breed is weak - there is too much variety among individuals. If I had a penny for every time I heard "we thought that (pets of Breed X) were (healthy/good with kids/friendly/smart/energetic/mellow/fill-in-the-blank), but that's really not how it turned out"...
I can't say that people who adopt from shelters have perfect records finding a good fit, but they're no worse than people who have meticulously selected a puppy or kitten from a breeder. There's a lot of chance involved in both situations. If you want to have a better chance of knowing what you're getting, adopt an adult pet who's been thoroughly vetted and temperament-tested.
Cool question - I will think of it every time I see some poor bulldog or pug gasping for air through their overbred snout.
posted by walla at 11:32 PM on November 1, 2010
I can't say that people who adopt from shelters have perfect records finding a good fit, but they're no worse than people who have meticulously selected a puppy or kitten from a breeder. There's a lot of chance involved in both situations. If you want to have a better chance of knowing what you're getting, adopt an adult pet who's been thoroughly vetted and temperament-tested.
Cool question - I will think of it every time I see some poor bulldog or pug gasping for air through their overbred snout.
posted by walla at 11:32 PM on November 1, 2010
The Traditional Siamese (aka Applehead) and its associated breeds (applehead oriental, applehead balinese, etc.) are an attempt of breeders to reduce some of the aesthetic extremes of the modern Siamese that, and ditto the Traditional Persian aka dollface, which breeds out the smooshy face which makes modern Persians vulnerable to respiratory issues and staining from shortened tear ducts.
Outside of breeding for traditional aesthetics, responsible Persian breeders (traditional or modern) test all of their kittens for polycystic kidney disease, a genetic disorder which causes renal failure by inflating the kidneys with cysts, and PKD-positive cats aren't used for breeding. Irresponsible breeders such as pet farms don't test their kittens, and thus there's still lots of PKD in the pet store Persian population, and those breeds that cross Persians in. Our Birman, adopted from the Humane Society, has PKD, and that's almost certainly because of irresponsible breeding practices crossing in pet-store Persians with their pet-store Birman stock.
posted by mendel at 7:39 AM on November 2, 2010
Outside of breeding for traditional aesthetics, responsible Persian breeders (traditional or modern) test all of their kittens for polycystic kidney disease, a genetic disorder which causes renal failure by inflating the kidneys with cysts, and PKD-positive cats aren't used for breeding. Irresponsible breeders such as pet farms don't test their kittens, and thus there's still lots of PKD in the pet store Persian population, and those breeds that cross Persians in. Our Birman, adopted from the Humane Society, has PKD, and that's almost certainly because of irresponsible breeding practices crossing in pet-store Persians with their pet-store Birman stock.
posted by mendel at 7:39 AM on November 2, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by fermezporte at 12:56 PM on November 1, 2010