yet another gay marriage question
October 26, 2010 4:49 PM Subscribe
A friend of mine is here on a student visa. He's got a domestic partnership in NYC with his male domestic partner, whom he's been with for about five years. Can he get married to his domestic partner somehow? In some other state?
What would the best state to get married be? Would NYS recognize his new marriage? How would the the domestic partnernship affect that?
He doesn't have a social security number. Does he absolutely need to get one to get married? This seems to be the biggest problem for him, as he seems to think getting a social security number will be next to impossible and insists that it's absolutely required. Is this actually the case? (I didn't think a social security number was required for male-female marriages between US citizens and foreign nationals, but, I guess being limited to the states that allow gay marriage means I should probably ask on AskMefi, so I can get a definitive answer...)
And, yeah, he's dirt poor, so getting a lawyer is going to be difficult. Just looking for some basic information here folks. Thanks!
(throw away email: nycmarrymarry@gmail.com)
What would the best state to get married be? Would NYS recognize his new marriage? How would the the domestic partnernship affect that?
He doesn't have a social security number. Does he absolutely need to get one to get married? This seems to be the biggest problem for him, as he seems to think getting a social security number will be next to impossible and insists that it's absolutely required. Is this actually the case? (I didn't think a social security number was required for male-female marriages between US citizens and foreign nationals, but, I guess being limited to the states that allow gay marriage means I should probably ask on AskMefi, so I can get a definitive answer...)
And, yeah, he's dirt poor, so getting a lawyer is going to be difficult. Just looking for some basic information here folks. Thanks!
(throw away email: nycmarrymarry@gmail.com)
I don't know a lot of the details, but it seems to me that it's not the getting married aspect that would prove to be a problem. It's what might happen afterwards, like does he expect that the marriage/domestic partnership would allow him to start the path to citizenship?
I've been married in Los Angeles and also performed marriage ceremonies (as a Universal Life Church minister) for several non-citizens. As part of that, I have both filled out the local marriage license application, and also filled it out for non-citizens. It asks for ID information only -- you can use a driver's license or passport or state ID card, etc. It does not ask for any social security number.
posted by BlahLaLa at 5:02 PM on October 26, 2010
I've been married in Los Angeles and also performed marriage ceremonies (as a Universal Life Church minister) for several non-citizens. As part of that, I have both filled out the local marriage license application, and also filled it out for non-citizens. It asks for ID information only -- you can use a driver's license or passport or state ID card, etc. It does not ask for any social security number.
posted by BlahLaLa at 5:02 PM on October 26, 2010
According to Immigration Equality, "neither a state-recognized same sex marriage nor a civil union in any state will provide immigration rights to same-sex couples in the short term."
posted by bluedaisy at 5:02 PM on October 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by bluedaisy at 5:02 PM on October 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
Can he get married to his domestic partner somehow? In some other state?
Yes: GLAD's Massachusetts marriage guide answers most of your questions w/r/t Mass. state law. You don't have to provide a SSN, but you do need an official reason why not, which generally means showing up to the local SSA office with a statement and all the visa documentation, in order to receive a letter of ineligibility. He'd best call the office in advance and see what they specifically want.
(It's going to have no affect on his status in the eyes of the federal government, particularly immigration authorities, but he presumably knows that.)
posted by holgate at 5:10 PM on October 26, 2010
Yes: GLAD's Massachusetts marriage guide answers most of your questions w/r/t Mass. state law. You don't have to provide a SSN, but you do need an official reason why not, which generally means showing up to the local SSA office with a statement and all the visa documentation, in order to receive a letter of ineligibility. He'd best call the office in advance and see what they specifically want.
(It's going to have no affect on his status in the eyes of the federal government, particularly immigration authorities, but he presumably knows that.)
posted by holgate at 5:10 PM on October 26, 2010
He should suck it up and talk to a lawyer.
It would really, really, REALLY suck to find out after the fact that even though getting gay-married to a US citizen provides no immigration benefit, it still leads to an assumption of immigrant intent.
If it's for immigration, don't bother. The feds don't recognize same-sex marriage at all, and won't unless the relevant parts of DOMA get overturned.
Answering specifics:
The best state would be any state that has same sex marriage.
New York recognizes out of state same-sex marriages.
You don't need an SSN to get married, AFAIK. It's common for foreigners to get married in the US and they don't have SSNs.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:11 PM on October 26, 2010
It would really, really, REALLY suck to find out after the fact that even though getting gay-married to a US citizen provides no immigration benefit, it still leads to an assumption of immigrant intent.
If it's for immigration, don't bother. The feds don't recognize same-sex marriage at all, and won't unless the relevant parts of DOMA get overturned.
Answering specifics:
The best state would be any state that has same sex marriage.
New York recognizes out of state same-sex marriages.
You don't need an SSN to get married, AFAIK. It's common for foreigners to get married in the US and they don't have SSNs.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:11 PM on October 26, 2010
It won't help and it could make things worse for him. Previously.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 5:17 PM on October 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 5:17 PM on October 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
Gay marriage is not recognized at the federal level, whatever state law says. The federal government's laws are the ones that pertain to immigration. So the short answer is that a gay person can't marry to acquire citizenship.
posted by dfriedman at 5:25 PM on October 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by dfriedman at 5:25 PM on October 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
It's not recommended at all.
Marrying a US citizen in a same-sex marriage will not get him any kind of immigration benefits. AND IT COULD HURT HIM: if the marriage becomes known to immigration authorities, it could change his legal presumption of "intent to stay" and complicate future work/student visas. More information at Immigration Equality: "If your marriage becomes known to Immigration, this evidence of a reason to want to stay permanently in the U.S. could be a ground to deny your partner a visa in the future."
He doesn't just need an immigration lawyer, he needs an immigration lawyer with some knowledge in same-sex marriage laws -- these rules are changing all the time and it's incredibly easy to get royally screwed. Sometimes law firms will have someone who does immigration and someone who does same-sex or marriage issues, and they can tag-team to answer your questions.
It's a complicated decision, but everyone I've spoken to has been fairly unanimous: don't do it. But that's for our specific situation and I'd encourage your friend to discuss his situation for an hour or two with a lawyer well versed in same-sex marriage laws and immigration.
posted by barnone at 5:27 PM on October 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
Marrying a US citizen in a same-sex marriage will not get him any kind of immigration benefits. AND IT COULD HURT HIM: if the marriage becomes known to immigration authorities, it could change his legal presumption of "intent to stay" and complicate future work/student visas. More information at Immigration Equality: "If your marriage becomes known to Immigration, this evidence of a reason to want to stay permanently in the U.S. could be a ground to deny your partner a visa in the future."
He doesn't just need an immigration lawyer, he needs an immigration lawyer with some knowledge in same-sex marriage laws -- these rules are changing all the time and it's incredibly easy to get royally screwed. Sometimes law firms will have someone who does immigration and someone who does same-sex or marriage issues, and they can tag-team to answer your questions.
It's a complicated decision, but everyone I've spoken to has been fairly unanimous: don't do it. But that's for our specific situation and I'd encourage your friend to discuss his situation for an hour or two with a lawyer well versed in same-sex marriage laws and immigration.
posted by barnone at 5:27 PM on October 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
And more:
Is there any reason for a binational couple that’s married in Massachusetts not to file for a green card now?
Yes, if the foreign partner is not in lawful status, he or she risks being placed in removal (deportation) proceedings by filing immigration papers. If the foreign partner is in the U.S. on a tourist visa or student visa (or hopes to apply for one of these visas in the future) filing for a green card will be taken as evidence of “immigrant intent” and will likely lead to the denial of future short-term visas.
posted by barnone at 5:30 PM on October 26, 2010
Is there any reason for a binational couple that’s married in Massachusetts not to file for a green card now?
Yes, if the foreign partner is not in lawful status, he or she risks being placed in removal (deportation) proceedings by filing immigration papers. If the foreign partner is in the U.S. on a tourist visa or student visa (or hopes to apply for one of these visas in the future) filing for a green card will be taken as evidence of “immigrant intent” and will likely lead to the denial of future short-term visas.
posted by barnone at 5:30 PM on October 26, 2010
Affect/effect. Long day. I think barnone's very slightly overstating things, given that OP's friend is already in a domestic partnership, which goes some way towards signalling intent to stay when it comes to visa renewals, but as everyone has noted, the federal law that allows OP's friend to remain in the US is implacable on the issue, and likely to remain so.
Pragmatically, it's simply not a good idea for binational same-sex partners to marry in the current legal climate -- unless they're planning on living outside the US, and have a relatively smooth immigration path to a country that recognises same-sex marriages or civil unions from those US states that offer them.
posted by holgate at 6:02 PM on October 26, 2010
Pragmatically, it's simply not a good idea for binational same-sex partners to marry in the current legal climate -- unless they're planning on living outside the US, and have a relatively smooth immigration path to a country that recognises same-sex marriages or civil unions from those US states that offer them.
posted by holgate at 6:02 PM on October 26, 2010
defense of marriage act, section 3: federal gov't defines marriage as between one man and one woman.
posted by lockestockbarrel at 8:10 PM on October 26, 2010
posted by lockestockbarrel at 8:10 PM on October 26, 2010
It seems Kafkaesque that we live in a country that won't recognize federal gay marriage, yet a state gay marriage might be seen as an intent to stay and get your visa revoked. But alas...
If he really wants to get married for unity's sake, I'd find a sympathetic minister who won't even attempt to file the paperwork. I bet you could do this in NY without looking hard. So in the eyes of God/themselves they are married, but it won't complicate their lives with the government (who won't recognize it anyway).
posted by sbutler at 1:46 AM on October 27, 2010
If he really wants to get married for unity's sake, I'd find a sympathetic minister who won't even attempt to file the paperwork. I bet you could do this in NY without looking hard. So in the eyes of God/themselves they are married, but it won't complicate their lives with the government (who won't recognize it anyway).
posted by sbutler at 1:46 AM on October 27, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
Or are you asking if they can then use this marriage for the non-citizen to get citizenship?
posted by bluedaisy at 4:59 PM on October 26, 2010