Help with dealing with teacher and principal in elementary school, or am I just being a overbearing parent?
October 15, 2010 8:30 AM Subscribe
Help with dealing with teacher and principal in elementary school, or am I just being a overbearing parent? more below
My child is in the 5th grade in a public school. In the past ten days I've had to contact the principal on two occasions in which I felt like my child was disciplined in a way I felt was 'over the top'.
Situation One:
My child turned in her math paper, and then her class changed to science (that is physically moved to another teacher's class), her homeroom teacher who is also her math teacher came to her science class and pulled her out, took her back to his classroom and identified the paper that had no name as hers. In front of other students had her rip her paper up and trash it to start a new one.
Understand, I realize the importance of no name, as she moves up in grade level some teachers will just trash the paper itself and give her a zero, without any opportunity to remake the work, etc.
The rub comes is that my child is the only child who has been subject to this, and it was done in front of other students, as if it was more of a humiliation tactic.
I explained to the teacher and principal that I agree with the no name is important, and had my child been told her paper was counted as zero, and/or she had to another I would have just told my child that is the consequence of 'no name' on the paper. I still explained to my child the importance of writing their name on papers, but spoke to the school outside the knowledge of my child about how it was handled.
Two days later situation 2 occurs:
They were taking a math test and my child was using a math chart on the test, my child says she didn't know she wasn't supposed to be using it, and the teacher says it's cheating that using it was forbidden. I side with the teacher on this. However, in discovering that my child was using the math chart, immediately the teacher had my child stand up, and during the 'test' asked the entire class, 'Class are we supposed to use the math chart on our test?', to which the class exclaimed 'no', and then removed my child from the classroom. Later that day the teacher then went into science and wrote in my child's 'discipline' folder about the incident with other students present.
Inevitably other students made fun of my child for 'cheating', etc. I explained to my child that cheating is really a death penalty later in life, in any academia assault and drugs have less of a penalty than being accused or caught cheating. We spent the whole weekend doing math fact practice, one as a punishment, and two to make my child comfortable with multiplication facts so they do not feel the need to use a chart when factoring.
I explained to both the teacher and principal the issues I took with the handling of the 'cheating', their only response was that I was being an annoyance, actually it was 'why are you up here, you should be at home disciplining your child for cheating and not writing their name on their paper'.
I've asked that my child be moved to another homeroom teacher/set of teachers so they do not have this math teacher, the principal has said she will not move my child, as what has occurred is not outside of anything normal, and I'm just being an over reactive parent. Alas, no other teacher I have asked has the policies that were applied to my child.
Understand, I don't think my child is any type of special snow flake who shouldn't have any type of discipline, they were wrong in both situations and I disciplined accordingly at home, how it was handled I feel is a little bit much.
Am I wrong, is the principal right, should I just let it go or push to have my child moved?
My child is in the 5th grade in a public school. In the past ten days I've had to contact the principal on two occasions in which I felt like my child was disciplined in a way I felt was 'over the top'.
Situation One:
My child turned in her math paper, and then her class changed to science (that is physically moved to another teacher's class), her homeroom teacher who is also her math teacher came to her science class and pulled her out, took her back to his classroom and identified the paper that had no name as hers. In front of other students had her rip her paper up and trash it to start a new one.
Understand, I realize the importance of no name, as she moves up in grade level some teachers will just trash the paper itself and give her a zero, without any opportunity to remake the work, etc.
The rub comes is that my child is the only child who has been subject to this, and it was done in front of other students, as if it was more of a humiliation tactic.
I explained to the teacher and principal that I agree with the no name is important, and had my child been told her paper was counted as zero, and/or she had to another I would have just told my child that is the consequence of 'no name' on the paper. I still explained to my child the importance of writing their name on papers, but spoke to the school outside the knowledge of my child about how it was handled.
Two days later situation 2 occurs:
They were taking a math test and my child was using a math chart on the test, my child says she didn't know she wasn't supposed to be using it, and the teacher says it's cheating that using it was forbidden. I side with the teacher on this. However, in discovering that my child was using the math chart, immediately the teacher had my child stand up, and during the 'test' asked the entire class, 'Class are we supposed to use the math chart on our test?', to which the class exclaimed 'no', and then removed my child from the classroom. Later that day the teacher then went into science and wrote in my child's 'discipline' folder about the incident with other students present.
Inevitably other students made fun of my child for 'cheating', etc. I explained to my child that cheating is really a death penalty later in life, in any academia assault and drugs have less of a penalty than being accused or caught cheating. We spent the whole weekend doing math fact practice, one as a punishment, and two to make my child comfortable with multiplication facts so they do not feel the need to use a chart when factoring.
I explained to both the teacher and principal the issues I took with the handling of the 'cheating', their only response was that I was being an annoyance, actually it was 'why are you up here, you should be at home disciplining your child for cheating and not writing their name on their paper'.
I've asked that my child be moved to another homeroom teacher/set of teachers so they do not have this math teacher, the principal has said she will not move my child, as what has occurred is not outside of anything normal, and I'm just being an over reactive parent. Alas, no other teacher I have asked has the policies that were applied to my child.
Understand, I don't think my child is any type of special snow flake who shouldn't have any type of discipline, they were wrong in both situations and I disciplined accordingly at home, how it was handled I feel is a little bit much.
Am I wrong, is the principal right, should I just let it go or push to have my child moved?
Bleh. The teacher sounds petty and horrible. Worst of all, I wouldn't be surprised if the second incident was in part a retaliation for the complaint about the first.
On the other hand, how upset is your child about this? I mean, after the fact, once the initial embarrassment has worn off. Is she dreading going back to school, or does she forget about it?
If it's the former then you should probably keep pursuing it (I don't know where you live, but you should be able to if necessary get her transferred to another school in the same board if you go to the board and say that you have irreconcilable differences with the staff), but if the latter then you should probably just grit your teeth and accept that this won't the last unreasonable little dictator in a position of authority that your child encounters in her life. It might be too soon for the "not all adults deserve the same amount of respect" talk, but it's a lesson she will eventually have to learn.
So, my take on it (as a father whose child is not yet in school) is that the teacher and principal are being more unreasonable than you are but that doesn't necessarily mean you have to make a stand.
posted by 256 at 8:40 AM on October 15, 2010
On the other hand, how upset is your child about this? I mean, after the fact, once the initial embarrassment has worn off. Is she dreading going back to school, or does she forget about it?
If it's the former then you should probably keep pursuing it (I don't know where you live, but you should be able to if necessary get her transferred to another school in the same board if you go to the board and say that you have irreconcilable differences with the staff), but if the latter then you should probably just grit your teeth and accept that this won't the last unreasonable little dictator in a position of authority that your child encounters in her life. It might be too soon for the "not all adults deserve the same amount of respect" talk, but it's a lesson she will eventually have to learn.
So, my take on it (as a father whose child is not yet in school) is that the teacher and principal are being more unreasonable than you are but that doesn't necessarily mean you have to make a stand.
posted by 256 at 8:40 AM on October 15, 2010
No, you are in the right. The behavior you have described on the behalf of this teacher is sick. Humiliation tactics like that are abusive. The next time you speak to the principal, remind them of the nationwide issue of bullying and let them know that just because the teacher is an adult does not mean they are exempt from being a bully themselves. Insist that your daughter be moved.
Your poor kid. :(
posted by patronuscharms at 8:41 AM on October 15, 2010 [6 favorites]
Your poor kid. :(
posted by patronuscharms at 8:41 AM on October 15, 2010 [6 favorites]
Humiliating the child publicly like that is over the top. I wouldn't stand for it either, though like you, I would agree with the discipline approach of the first assignment receiving a 0 and the test also being a 0. Those are appropriate consequences to the action.
But making the child a source of public ridicule among his or her peers suggests to me the teacher is getting off on a power trip.
(And my high-school teacher husband gets annoyed when a student will forget his or her name on an assignment but doesn't discount the work the student put into the assignment --- he just figures out whose it is by process of elimination and grades accordingly. He may take some points off, but that's about it.)
posted by zizzle at 8:48 AM on October 15, 2010
But making the child a source of public ridicule among his or her peers suggests to me the teacher is getting off on a power trip.
(And my high-school teacher husband gets annoyed when a student will forget his or her name on an assignment but doesn't discount the work the student put into the assignment --- he just figures out whose it is by process of elimination and grades accordingly. He may take some points off, but that's about it.)
posted by zizzle at 8:48 AM on October 15, 2010
I had a Biology teacher who picked on me regularly when I was at school.
The best thing my folks ever did for me was to tell me that, whilst my late homeworks or badly-chosen retorts were my own responsibilty, the way she treated me was wrong and that they would support me wherever they could. So, for instance, when she wrote to them about my uniform not being quite right (many kids' weren't, only a few got pulled up on it) they wrote back saying they thought it was fine and the school could shove their petty complaint. Seriously, they rocked.
This teacher was a mean old bat, but coping with her was way easier with my parents' support, and definitely less likely to ostracise me from my peers than them making a massive deal of it and asking to move my class. I'm not saying that your actions so far were wrong, just that it might not be the best option for your child.
Good luck, this is an opportunity to teach your child a SUPER important life lesson - that authority figures aren't always right, and not to let them get you down!
posted by greenish at 8:51 AM on October 15, 2010 [3 favorites]
The best thing my folks ever did for me was to tell me that, whilst my late homeworks or badly-chosen retorts were my own responsibilty, the way she treated me was wrong and that they would support me wherever they could. So, for instance, when she wrote to them about my uniform not being quite right (many kids' weren't, only a few got pulled up on it) they wrote back saying they thought it was fine and the school could shove their petty complaint. Seriously, they rocked.
This teacher was a mean old bat, but coping with her was way easier with my parents' support, and definitely less likely to ostracise me from my peers than them making a massive deal of it and asking to move my class. I'm not saying that your actions so far were wrong, just that it might not be the best option for your child.
Good luck, this is an opportunity to teach your child a SUPER important life lesson - that authority figures aren't always right, and not to let them get you down!
posted by greenish at 8:51 AM on October 15, 2010 [3 favorites]
Also, pulling your child out of another class?? And then humiliating her in front of students in another class???
Sorry. That shouldn't happen.Her science class is just as important as her math class and I imagine now her science grade could possibly have suffered because she was removed from the class and likely horrendously upset when she returned.
The math teacher should have waited until lunch, recess, or another period of time during the day that did not involve removing your child from another class. (And the science teacher shouldn't have allowed her to have been removed!)
posted by zizzle at 8:51 AM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Sorry. That shouldn't happen.Her science class is just as important as her math class and I imagine now her science grade could possibly have suffered because she was removed from the class and likely horrendously upset when she returned.
The math teacher should have waited until lunch, recess, or another period of time during the day that did not involve removing your child from another class. (And the science teacher shouldn't have allowed her to have been removed!)
posted by zizzle at 8:51 AM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Good heavens, where are you? That is awful! I agree with patronuscharms that using humiliation as a teaching tool is abusive, absolutely. I'd be speaking to the school, too, if my kid's teacher did that. Now, given the response you got from them, if you do decide to move her, I'd be very careful about checking out the discipline culture of wherever you're going to put her. Also, I'd help her to understand that the teacher's bullying behaviour is also not acceptable.
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 8:53 AM on October 15, 2010
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 8:53 AM on October 15, 2010
Do you know for a fact that your child is being singled out? If you can confirm that other kids in the class have received less strict penalties/public shaming than your child, then you should continue to try to have her moved. If you cannot confirm that she's being singled out, then you need to drop it.
My mom teaches elementary school, so I have as many years experience knowing how other elementary school teachers work as I am alive. For what it's worth, this seems harsh to me, but not extreme or dangerous. I would only see it as a problem if she is the only one receiving this kind of attention. And it is very normal to have the "so-and-so was cheating, we all know not to cheat, right?" speech in the middle of class in front of everyone--at least in my experience. As you said, cheating is a BIG DEAL and she probably won't do it again (even if it was unintentional), and neither will many of her classmates.
In the meantime, explain to your kid that while technically she is breaking the rules and the teacher has every right to punish her for doing so, sometimes people (teachers, her classmates, etc) don't always make the best decisions about how to handle a difficult situation. That it's important to follow the rules, but it's also important to know that nobody is perfect and nobody is the same--just because Ms. Johnson down the hall doesn't do this in her class doesn't mean her teacher can't do it in his. It might not be the way you would handle it, but it's the way he handles it. Sometimes we just have to suck it up and deal. (This was my dad's favorite lesson! That, and Newton's laws of motion.)
And I don't want to tell you how to parent your child, but this:
We spent the whole weekend doing math fact practice, one as a punishment...
Please don't do this. I can't tell you how many things were ruined for me as a kid because someone (parent, teacher, whatever) decided that practicing that thing would be a good punishment. If you want your kid to ever enjoy math, please don't punish her with it.
posted by phunniemee at 8:53 AM on October 15, 2010 [18 favorites]
My mom teaches elementary school, so I have as many years experience knowing how other elementary school teachers work as I am alive. For what it's worth, this seems harsh to me, but not extreme or dangerous. I would only see it as a problem if she is the only one receiving this kind of attention. And it is very normal to have the "so-and-so was cheating, we all know not to cheat, right?" speech in the middle of class in front of everyone--at least in my experience. As you said, cheating is a BIG DEAL and she probably won't do it again (even if it was unintentional), and neither will many of her classmates.
In the meantime, explain to your kid that while technically she is breaking the rules and the teacher has every right to punish her for doing so, sometimes people (teachers, her classmates, etc) don't always make the best decisions about how to handle a difficult situation. That it's important to follow the rules, but it's also important to know that nobody is perfect and nobody is the same--just because Ms. Johnson down the hall doesn't do this in her class doesn't mean her teacher can't do it in his. It might not be the way you would handle it, but it's the way he handles it. Sometimes we just have to suck it up and deal. (This was my dad's favorite lesson! That, and Newton's laws of motion.)
And I don't want to tell you how to parent your child, but this:
We spent the whole weekend doing math fact practice, one as a punishment...
Please don't do this. I can't tell you how many things were ruined for me as a kid because someone (parent, teacher, whatever) decided that practicing that thing would be a good punishment. If you want your kid to ever enjoy math, please don't punish her with it.
posted by phunniemee at 8:53 AM on October 15, 2010 [18 favorites]
Independent of the teacher's actions, the principal's response of "why are you up here, you should be at home disciplining your child for cheating and not writing their name on their paper" is out of line. In general, I believe teachers need to know that the administration has their back, especially in terms of disciplinary issues. But that doesn't mean that a legitimate grievance should be dismissed flippantly.
Regardless of the exact course of action you take on this, I'd recommend that you begin documenting the interactions (dates, actors, what was said) as well as you can, and that you begin to communicate with the principal / teacher in writing (and, obviously, keep copies of what you send them).
I'm sorry for your daughter. Being teased by peers can be damaging enough. Being humiliated by an adult who should be a trustworthy ally could have repercussions for a long time. I hope you're able to help her find peace in this.
Out of curiosity, is her homeroom/math teacher young? These sound like the actions of someone without much confidence or competency in their teaching.
posted by Alt F4 at 9:00 AM on October 15, 2010
Regardless of the exact course of action you take on this, I'd recommend that you begin documenting the interactions (dates, actors, what was said) as well as you can, and that you begin to communicate with the principal / teacher in writing (and, obviously, keep copies of what you send them).
I'm sorry for your daughter. Being teased by peers can be damaging enough. Being humiliated by an adult who should be a trustworthy ally could have repercussions for a long time. I hope you're able to help her find peace in this.
Out of curiosity, is her homeroom/math teacher young? These sound like the actions of someone without much confidence or competency in their teaching.
posted by Alt F4 at 9:00 AM on October 15, 2010
It's not ok to publicly humiliate a child. Ever. No matter what she's done.
The teacher shouldn't need to recruit her students to punish another student. It's a cowardly, bullying thing to do. I'm troubled that she feels she can't manage her classroom without resorting to humiliation, and more troubled that the principal doesn't see this as a problem. Can you contact the PTA or some parent-led group in the school to see about addressing this? No one wants their kid to be publicly humiliated like that, so maybe you'd gain some traction with the principal that way. In any case, it's reasonable to want your kid to have a decent teacher, and right now she doesn't.
I don't have kids, but I do have some experience with education, so while I'm not familiar with grade school politics, I do know that what this teacher is doing is wrong and shows poor professional skills. Also, agreeing with phunnieme: don't use homework or studying as a punishment unless you want your kid to hate that subject.
posted by Meg_Murry at 9:09 AM on October 15, 2010 [7 favorites]
The teacher shouldn't need to recruit her students to punish another student. It's a cowardly, bullying thing to do. I'm troubled that she feels she can't manage her classroom without resorting to humiliation, and more troubled that the principal doesn't see this as a problem. Can you contact the PTA or some parent-led group in the school to see about addressing this? No one wants their kid to be publicly humiliated like that, so maybe you'd gain some traction with the principal that way. In any case, it's reasonable to want your kid to have a decent teacher, and right now she doesn't.
I don't have kids, but I do have some experience with education, so while I'm not familiar with grade school politics, I do know that what this teacher is doing is wrong and shows poor professional skills. Also, agreeing with phunnieme: don't use homework or studying as a punishment unless you want your kid to hate that subject.
posted by Meg_Murry at 9:09 AM on October 15, 2010 [7 favorites]
I am a teacher in a public school and the way the teacher handled this is completely unprofessional. I hope none of my colleagues would even act like this. In our school we understand that the classroom should be a place where children need to feel safe and comfortable in order to learn and humiliation is a tactic that is NEVER used by any self-respecting teacher. This is the reason I got into education, to help filter out some of the awful teachers like I had in school. It's pathetic what some educators consider "teaching".
That being said, you also sometimes have to take what your child is saying with a grain of salt (which is seems like you are). I would have a discussion with the principal and the teacher and ask if they typically handle things by embarrassing students in front of the class. If they say that it is fine and normal I'd take my child to a different school because that one is headed in the wrong direction.
posted by no bueno at 9:19 AM on October 15, 2010 [3 favorites]
That being said, you also sometimes have to take what your child is saying with a grain of salt (which is seems like you are). I would have a discussion with the principal and the teacher and ask if they typically handle things by embarrassing students in front of the class. If they say that it is fine and normal I'd take my child to a different school because that one is headed in the wrong direction.
posted by no bueno at 9:19 AM on October 15, 2010 [3 favorites]
Let me preface this by saying that I came into this thinking that you were being an overbearing parent just passed on what was on the Ask front page. Because let's face it, most of the time when this kind of thing occurs that's the case.
So let's look at your situation #1. I'm actually perfectly fine with what the teacher did except for the part where she had her rip the paper up. If the teacher went and pulled your child out, and only your child, then obviously the teacher knew who the paper belonged to.
I have to ask though, how is it that your child is the only one this happened to? Is it because your child is the only one who hasn't put a name on the paper? Or is it because your child has for some reason been singled out? If it's the later than you'd have a much better case, although the former still makes the teacher look like a douche bag.
#2 is a bit harder to tell from your description because of things like if they've been allowed to use the chart on past assignments and how your child was the only one who didn't they they shouldn't use the chart. But in my mind, that distinction only makes what the teacher did less bad but still pretty bad.
I'll admit that in classes I've subbed in I've caught a few people cheating and didn't keep it a perfect secret that they were caught. It's pretty hard, especially when you consider things like when you catch them. If they're writing answers on the desk or haven't had the test for very long it might be a good idea to just move them and/or make them start over.
All of that being said, there's no excuse for making your child stand up and be singled out like that. Asking the class that question in itself is fine. But asking and then removing your child pretty much ruins the idea of asking the class in the first place, which if done right is done in a way to not single anyone out and still let the class know not to use it and let the "cheaters" know that they've been caught.
If you quoted (rather than speculating that that was what they meant) about how you were told that you should be at home disciplining the child, then you definitely need to see what you can do about getting your kid in with different teachers. That's probably going to mean switching schools. Unless you think your child and you can handle staying in that environment. If the only issue is things that can pretty easily taken care of then you might be find leaving her in the class.
But most of all, I really hope she'll start middle school in 6th grade so she gets a fresh start next year.
posted by theichibun at 9:21 AM on October 15, 2010
So let's look at your situation #1. I'm actually perfectly fine with what the teacher did except for the part where she had her rip the paper up. If the teacher went and pulled your child out, and only your child, then obviously the teacher knew who the paper belonged to.
I have to ask though, how is it that your child is the only one this happened to? Is it because your child is the only one who hasn't put a name on the paper? Or is it because your child has for some reason been singled out? If it's the later than you'd have a much better case, although the former still makes the teacher look like a douche bag.
#2 is a bit harder to tell from your description because of things like if they've been allowed to use the chart on past assignments and how your child was the only one who didn't they they shouldn't use the chart. But in my mind, that distinction only makes what the teacher did less bad but still pretty bad.
I'll admit that in classes I've subbed in I've caught a few people cheating and didn't keep it a perfect secret that they were caught. It's pretty hard, especially when you consider things like when you catch them. If they're writing answers on the desk or haven't had the test for very long it might be a good idea to just move them and/or make them start over.
All of that being said, there's no excuse for making your child stand up and be singled out like that. Asking the class that question in itself is fine. But asking and then removing your child pretty much ruins the idea of asking the class in the first place, which if done right is done in a way to not single anyone out and still let the class know not to use it and let the "cheaters" know that they've been caught.
If you quoted (rather than speculating that that was what they meant) about how you were told that you should be at home disciplining the child, then you definitely need to see what you can do about getting your kid in with different teachers. That's probably going to mean switching schools. Unless you think your child and you can handle staying in that environment. If the only issue is things that can pretty easily taken care of then you might be find leaving her in the class.
But most of all, I really hope she'll start middle school in 6th grade so she gets a fresh start next year.
posted by theichibun at 9:21 AM on October 15, 2010
I'd pull the kid from the class, but I have low tolerance for putting kids through "obnoxious adult lords it over tiny people" situations, and if/when I have kids I intend to homeschool. Is the math teacher the only one who behaves this way? Is your kid the only one they do this to? How unpleasant will it be for you and your kid if you have to change schools?
posted by SMPA at 9:45 AM on October 15, 2010
posted by SMPA at 9:45 AM on October 15, 2010
I absolutely disagree with humiliation tactics. I called a principal and teacher into account when this happened once with my kid, and in speaking with other parents realized the teacher was unpopular because this was a common tactic. That teacher's contract was not renewed because of this issue with the parents.
Normally, I like a principal that stands behind her employees, because as a teacher you cannot please every parent and you must stick to your classroom rules, etc. But this is over the top, and it does sound like there is some retaliatory action going on.
Did your child get a handbook when she started school? Are the school's disciplinary policies in there? Because there are reasons why disciplinary policies are in place, and usually they have to do with state funding and community consensus and it's important that the school adhere to them. If you don't know what the official disciplinary policies are, ask to see them and use them to illustrate why what happened was not okay.
One other thing: You are not out of line for firmly requesting that your student not be subjected to public humiliation. Be careful that when you speak to the educator and principal you remain calm, stick to the issue at hand, and do not lose your temper if possible. This is really difficult when it is your child, I know, believe me! I have broken down in tears before, and I am not a hysterical ninny by any means. But if you can keep your cool, it really, really helps.
posted by misha at 9:54 AM on October 15, 2010
Normally, I like a principal that stands behind her employees, because as a teacher you cannot please every parent and you must stick to your classroom rules, etc. But this is over the top, and it does sound like there is some retaliatory action going on.
Did your child get a handbook when she started school? Are the school's disciplinary policies in there? Because there are reasons why disciplinary policies are in place, and usually they have to do with state funding and community consensus and it's important that the school adhere to them. If you don't know what the official disciplinary policies are, ask to see them and use them to illustrate why what happened was not okay.
One other thing: You are not out of line for firmly requesting that your student not be subjected to public humiliation. Be careful that when you speak to the educator and principal you remain calm, stick to the issue at hand, and do not lose your temper if possible. This is really difficult when it is your child, I know, believe me! I have broken down in tears before, and I am not a hysterical ninny by any means. But if you can keep your cool, it really, really helps.
posted by misha at 9:54 AM on October 15, 2010
I'm not exactly sure how reminding the class that cheating is wrong and then kicking a kid out for cheating is anything close to objectionable.
Objectionable:
"Stand up, Jane." [Jane stands) "Class, are we supposed to use our math chart during this test? No? Jane, you need to leave the room because you were cheating."
This is public humiliation, and it's not only wrong but counterproductive.
Not objectionable:
(look around the room, see several students using their charts) "Class are we supposed to use our math chart during this test? No? OK, I see five people with their charts out." (give a consequence or allow them to put the charts away, assuming it was a misunderstanding)
This clarifies the teacher's expectations without singling a student out for humiliation.
- OR -
(look around the room, notice that only Jane has her chart out; say quietly, to Jane) "Jane, using the math chart during this test is cheating, you need to leave the room now."
(to the class, prior to the next test) "Class, this is a closed-book test. Are we clear?"
This may result in some kids knowing why Jane was removed, but it doesn't recruit them to embarrass her.
posted by Meg_Murry at 9:54 AM on October 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
Objectionable:
"Stand up, Jane." [Jane stands) "Class, are we supposed to use our math chart during this test? No? Jane, you need to leave the room because you were cheating."
This is public humiliation, and it's not only wrong but counterproductive.
Not objectionable:
(look around the room, see several students using their charts) "Class are we supposed to use our math chart during this test? No? OK, I see five people with their charts out." (give a consequence or allow them to put the charts away, assuming it was a misunderstanding)
This clarifies the teacher's expectations without singling a student out for humiliation.
- OR -
(look around the room, notice that only Jane has her chart out; say quietly, to Jane) "Jane, using the math chart during this test is cheating, you need to leave the room now."
(to the class, prior to the next test) "Class, this is a closed-book test. Are we clear?"
This may result in some kids knowing why Jane was removed, but it doesn't recruit them to embarrass her.
posted by Meg_Murry at 9:54 AM on October 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
If these sorts of incidents happened in the workplace (a public announcement of a stupid mistake or asking an employee to stand in front of their coworkers and engage in some weird back and forth aimed at making the employee feel humiliated) I can't imagine that anyone would stick up for the boss. The are only a few logical rationales that would make it okay in a school situation but not in an office situation. One of these might be that children have not earned the respect that adults have earned. Another could be that children are somehow more naturally emotionally fortified than their taller counterparts, ergo this kind of crap doesn't affect them. Those justifications, and pretty much any other, are all nonsense. And, seriously, we wonder where other children learn that bullying and humiliating their classmates is okay? I do not have children, but I can't imagine allowing this kind of treatment toward my (or anyone else's) child.
I think you did the right thing, both in how you brought up your concerns with the principal and by making sure your child knew that her own actions were not okay. And while I understand your not wanting to make waves, insisting that your daughter be moved to a different class doesn't seem out of line to me.
posted by eunoia at 9:57 AM on October 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
I think you did the right thing, both in how you brought up your concerns with the principal and by making sure your child knew that her own actions were not okay. And while I understand your not wanting to make waves, insisting that your daughter be moved to a different class doesn't seem out of line to me.
posted by eunoia at 9:57 AM on October 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
The teacher seems really strange, and the way your daughter is being treated seems odd. However, if you haven't discussed how you think this is wrong with the teacher and gotten his feedback on why he did what he did, then that's where you should start.
I think your daughter will be fine. If he ends up picking on her more, tell your daughter to tell you and you'll go back and ask about it and politely ask that he stop treating your daughter like so because it hurts her feelings. If he doesn't, then go to the principal.
posted by anniecat at 10:13 AM on October 15, 2010
I think your daughter will be fine. If he ends up picking on her more, tell your daughter to tell you and you'll go back and ask about it and politely ask that he stop treating your daughter like so because it hurts her feelings. If he doesn't, then go to the principal.
posted by anniecat at 10:13 AM on October 15, 2010
Also, it seems like your daughter has some trouble with listening to instructions or paying attention, and you might want to have that evaluated.
posted by anniecat at 10:19 AM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by anniecat at 10:19 AM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Of course the principal isn't right. Asking why you're there? That's ridiculous.
What I'd do about that is honestly talk to the teacher and tell her that these discipline methods are very much NOT OKAY with you, and you want them to stop. If something happens again, have your kid moved, maybe to a new school with a principal who doesn't speak to parents the way that one spoke to you.
I'm a teacher and a mommy and one of my kids used to have a fair amount of trouble with his name on the paper and forgetting things and not always following directinos because he didn't hear them. After endless teacher concerns, I requested an evaluation and it turns out my kid has ADHD.
Also, you said "I explained to my child that cheating is really a death penalty later in life, in any academia assault and drugs have less of a penalty than being accused or caught cheating. We spent the whole weekend doing math fact practice, one as a punishment, and two to make my child comfortable with multiplication facts so they do not feel the need to use a chart when factoring."
I really, really hope you're exaggerating here. Please don't tell your kid that cheating is equal to the death penalty. In fifth grade, she can't go too far beyond literal interpretation and that's pretty scary.
Also, please don't use academics as punishment. Math is fun and cool and great to learn. It seems like you punished her for something she doesn't know and again, there may be an underlying disability here. Most 5th graders do know their times tables. I think you may want to consider having her tested.
posted by dzaz at 10:33 AM on October 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
What I'd do about that is honestly talk to the teacher and tell her that these discipline methods are very much NOT OKAY with you, and you want them to stop. If something happens again, have your kid moved, maybe to a new school with a principal who doesn't speak to parents the way that one spoke to you.
I'm a teacher and a mommy and one of my kids used to have a fair amount of trouble with his name on the paper and forgetting things and not always following directinos because he didn't hear them. After endless teacher concerns, I requested an evaluation and it turns out my kid has ADHD.
Also, you said "I explained to my child that cheating is really a death penalty later in life, in any academia assault and drugs have less of a penalty than being accused or caught cheating. We spent the whole weekend doing math fact practice, one as a punishment, and two to make my child comfortable with multiplication facts so they do not feel the need to use a chart when factoring."
I really, really hope you're exaggerating here. Please don't tell your kid that cheating is equal to the death penalty. In fifth grade, she can't go too far beyond literal interpretation and that's pretty scary.
Also, please don't use academics as punishment. Math is fun and cool and great to learn. It seems like you punished her for something she doesn't know and again, there may be an underlying disability here. Most 5th graders do know their times tables. I think you may want to consider having her tested.
posted by dzaz at 10:33 AM on October 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
>>If you cannot confirm that she's being singled out, then you need to drop it.
NO. If you determine that she's not being singled out [that everyone's getting treatment that should not be tolerated], you start talking to people until you have a documented list of offenses and victims and people who will confirm the complaint. Then you petition to have the teacher disciplined/removed by whatever agency is willing to listen to you and has the power to act.
You CAN affect this teacher's employability (assuming non-tenured). My Spanish class did it when I was in 7th grade --all students, no adults involved. We collected a list of concrete examples of bad behaviors, to whom these things were done (with agreement to go on record from parties mentioned), and submitted it to the Guidance department via one of the honors students. What would have been ignored individually was apparently considered when submitted en mass. The teacher was did not return to the school-system the following year.
posted by Ys at 10:35 AM on October 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
NO. If you determine that she's not being singled out [that everyone's getting treatment that should not be tolerated], you start talking to people until you have a documented list of offenses and victims and people who will confirm the complaint. Then you petition to have the teacher disciplined/removed by whatever agency is willing to listen to you and has the power to act.
You CAN affect this teacher's employability (assuming non-tenured). My Spanish class did it when I was in 7th grade --all students, no adults involved. We collected a list of concrete examples of bad behaviors, to whom these things were done (with agreement to go on record from parties mentioned), and submitted it to the Guidance department via one of the honors students. What would have been ignored individually was apparently considered when submitted en mass. The teacher was did not return to the school-system the following year.
posted by Ys at 10:35 AM on October 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
Bullying and humiliation have no place in a classroom (especially from a teacher!), and if what your child told you is true, please don't stand for it. It takes one bad teacher to turn a child off to education for life. Maybe your daughter is taking it in stride, and if so, great! But incidents like these can easily have lifelong repercussions and I'd hate for a power-tripping asshole like that to have a long-lasting negative impact on your child's quality of life.
posted by bahama mama at 10:37 AM on October 15, 2010
posted by bahama mama at 10:37 AM on October 15, 2010
If the events happened the way you describe, I don't think you're overreacting at all. As others above have said, the teacher is using humiliation as a discipline tool, and that's not OK. Ever. And it's not OK that the principal is fine with it. Yes, of course, kids need to learn to put their names on assignments and not to cheat on tests, but this isn't the way to get those messages across.
I teach (young) adults, and I still find myself having to teach them to put their names on assignments and not plagiarize. But I would not dream of treating my 18/19/20+ year olds like this, so the thought of someone half their age getting this treatment...yikes.
And I'll also add my voice to those saying please don't use doing math/other academic work to punish your child.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 11:52 AM on October 15, 2010
I teach (young) adults, and I still find myself having to teach them to put their names on assignments and not plagiarize. But I would not dream of treating my 18/19/20+ year olds like this, so the thought of someone half their age getting this treatment...yikes.
And I'll also add my voice to those saying please don't use doing math/other academic work to punish your child.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 11:52 AM on October 15, 2010
This is a situation where you'd be fairly justified in pursuing the next level of authority, probably the superintendent. (Or, if you need backup, speaking to a school board member first.) Sometimes a principal is too close to the situation and to the teacher and is so used to Teacher X behaving inappropriately that it has stopped registering as inappropriate, and you need someone with a little more distance from the situation to come in.
I also find the teacher's actions questionable. But more troubling to me (as a school board member) is the principal's refusal to engage with this situation, since we rely on our principals to mediate disputes like this -- to ensure that teachers behave appropriately, that appropriately-behaving teachers are shielded from unreasonable parental demands, that parents -- even the unreasonable ones -- feel like their concerns are being heard. EVEN IF you are completely off your bean and the teacher is completely in the right (neither of which I think is the case), the principal's response isn't remotely adequate. I would want to know this about one of my district's principals.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 11:56 AM on October 15, 2010
I also find the teacher's actions questionable. But more troubling to me (as a school board member) is the principal's refusal to engage with this situation, since we rely on our principals to mediate disputes like this -- to ensure that teachers behave appropriately, that appropriately-behaving teachers are shielded from unreasonable parental demands, that parents -- even the unreasonable ones -- feel like their concerns are being heard. EVEN IF you are completely off your bean and the teacher is completely in the right (neither of which I think is the case), the principal's response isn't remotely adequate. I would want to know this about one of my district's principals.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 11:56 AM on October 15, 2010
Teacher here.
Humiliating your child was completely inappropriate. I don't know, however, how much recourse you have.
But also, if you believe that your child made a mistake and didn't know it wasn't ok to have the charts out, then what are you punishing the child for? Getting no credit on the test would be a natural and logical consequence of not having followed the rules on what kinds of aid were/were not permitted. And thirding, or nthing that math practice, or academic work of any kind should not be used as a punishment.
posted by bardophile at 12:49 PM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Humiliating your child was completely inappropriate. I don't know, however, how much recourse you have.
But also, if you believe that your child made a mistake and didn't know it wasn't ok to have the charts out, then what are you punishing the child for? Getting no credit on the test would be a natural and logical consequence of not having followed the rules on what kinds of aid were/were not permitted. And thirding, or nthing that math practice, or academic work of any kind should not be used as a punishment.
posted by bardophile at 12:49 PM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
I teach sixth grade and I am incredibly strict. In fact, I am supervising detention right now as I write this.
I would never publicly humiliate a child like that intentionally. If I give a consequence publicly I try to do it in a quick, neutral tone and move on.
I have to admit that sometimes as teachers we lose our patience and say things that are harsher than we intend. However, since this has happened twice, I would say it's not just a case of a teacher having a bad day and more a case of a teacher just being cruel.
So you are right. As for what to do about it, I think it's hard to have much influence over teachers and principals in this situation by talking to them directly. They will want to hold a hard line because they don't want their authority to be questioned. You either need to take it up with another body (superintendent, school council, PTA), or look for another teacher for your child.
posted by mai at 12:49 PM on October 15, 2010
I would never publicly humiliate a child like that intentionally. If I give a consequence publicly I try to do it in a quick, neutral tone and move on.
I have to admit that sometimes as teachers we lose our patience and say things that are harsher than we intend. However, since this has happened twice, I would say it's not just a case of a teacher having a bad day and more a case of a teacher just being cruel.
So you are right. As for what to do about it, I think it's hard to have much influence over teachers and principals in this situation by talking to them directly. They will want to hold a hard line because they don't want their authority to be questioned. You either need to take it up with another body (superintendent, school council, PTA), or look for another teacher for your child.
posted by mai at 12:49 PM on October 15, 2010
I am kind of surprised by the responses to this question (the minority, I guess) that have been in any way "meh" about either of these incidents. I would be horrified if my 10-yr-old were treated this way in school, and I can't believe the administration told you you were over-reacting or (holy shit!) that you ought to be home further disciplining your daughter!
How much discipline does a child need for forgetting to write her name? Kids this age are absent-minded. Dock a few points, maybe, but a zero? Making the child tear up her own work?? That is just awful.
The "cheating" incident is more serious, of course, but still (at this age) requires nothing more than a serious (and private) talking-to. And unless your daughter has had a history of sneaky behavior or cheating, she should be given the benefit of the doubt. Not a public dressing-down!
Removing an offending child from the situation is a common action at my kids' school (currently I have daughters in 7th and 2nd grades). But then the child is spoken to privately about what she has done wrong and given a chance to respond. And then we (the parents) are contacted by the administration and given an explanation of what has taken place, and a chance to respond. I have never personally pushed back (because the discipline has always been fairly suited to the age of the child and the offense IMO), but I know of one other parent who did, and she was still treated with respect by the head of school.
I'd pull my daughter out if I were in your situation and any other school option were feasible. If that's not feasible, then yes, talk to other parents; use whatever avenues you can, including the PTA.
posted by torticat at 12:56 PM on October 15, 2010
How much discipline does a child need for forgetting to write her name? Kids this age are absent-minded. Dock a few points, maybe, but a zero? Making the child tear up her own work?? That is just awful.
The "cheating" incident is more serious, of course, but still (at this age) requires nothing more than a serious (and private) talking-to. And unless your daughter has had a history of sneaky behavior or cheating, she should be given the benefit of the doubt. Not a public dressing-down!
Removing an offending child from the situation is a common action at my kids' school (currently I have daughters in 7th and 2nd grades). But then the child is spoken to privately about what she has done wrong and given a chance to respond. And then we (the parents) are contacted by the administration and given an explanation of what has taken place, and a chance to respond. I have never personally pushed back (because the discipline has always been fairly suited to the age of the child and the offense IMO), but I know of one other parent who did, and she was still treated with respect by the head of school.
I'd pull my daughter out if I were in your situation and any other school option were feasible. If that's not feasible, then yes, talk to other parents; use whatever avenues you can, including the PTA.
posted by torticat at 12:56 PM on October 15, 2010
I don't think any of this is really that bad.
I can see I am in the minority.
I haven't been in 5th grade since 1990 - but I remember fourth grade teachers doing stuff like this - and well, we just learned things faster - like putting your name on the paper and not cheating.
Before reading this, I thought maybe the teacher threw a book, called your child names, threw one of her belongings in the trash, etc.
I experienced quite a bit from both students and teachers - like bullying, physical violence (from students), destruction of my private belongings (teachers and students), being called names, teachers telling me to clean up the mess of food and bottles that they saw others throw at me, called an idiot by a teacher, etc.
Maybe that's why I'm probably the wrong person to give advice about this - because it doesn't seem like a big issue compared to what I and a lot of others have been through. Especially situation #2... that seems pretty normal.
Which, of course, doesn't mean your feelings towards this isn't normal.
I would speak with the principal or write a letter to the SI, if worried about it.
posted by KogeLiz at 1:51 PM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
I can see I am in the minority.
I haven't been in 5th grade since 1990 - but I remember fourth grade teachers doing stuff like this - and well, we just learned things faster - like putting your name on the paper and not cheating.
Before reading this, I thought maybe the teacher threw a book, called your child names, threw one of her belongings in the trash, etc.
I experienced quite a bit from both students and teachers - like bullying, physical violence (from students), destruction of my private belongings (teachers and students), being called names, teachers telling me to clean up the mess of food and bottles that they saw others throw at me, called an idiot by a teacher, etc.
Maybe that's why I'm probably the wrong person to give advice about this - because it doesn't seem like a big issue compared to what I and a lot of others have been through. Especially situation #2... that seems pretty normal.
Which, of course, doesn't mean your feelings towards this isn't normal.
I would speak with the principal or write a letter to the SI, if worried about it.
posted by KogeLiz at 1:51 PM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Agreeing with many above.
--Don't allow a teacher to shame your child in front of others. It's a long-lasting psychological trauma. I had this done to me in the sixth grade for an absolutely tiny infraction and to this day I vow that if I meet that teacher, now that we're both adults, I will shame her in front of everyone she knows.
--Same for "practicing" the math. My father did that to me: long hours drilling at math he couldn't do much better than I could. It ruined me for any interest in math for life.
posted by Mo Nickels at 2:58 PM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
--Don't allow a teacher to shame your child in front of others. It's a long-lasting psychological trauma. I had this done to me in the sixth grade for an absolutely tiny infraction and to this day I vow that if I meet that teacher, now that we're both adults, I will shame her in front of everyone she knows.
--Same for "practicing" the math. My father did that to me: long hours drilling at math he couldn't do much better than I could. It ruined me for any interest in math for life.
posted by Mo Nickels at 2:58 PM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
A teacher like this soured me on school in fourth grade. That year I lost interest in school and years later I dropped out of high school (but ended up graduating, early in fact, through a community college). Being humiliated, teased, and scared by someone who's supposed to not only be in charge and a face of authority, but also should be looked up to, sucks.
People that act like this towards children need to be looked out for anyway. Towards the end of my fourth grade year the teacher started throwing text books and flipping over desks. A few years later he was arrested (and, I assume, canned) for hurling a chair at a student's head.
Do whatever you need to do to keep your kid interested in learning, and check the teacher on their shit so they don't go further with it.
posted by gally99 at 3:32 PM on October 15, 2010
People that act like this towards children need to be looked out for anyway. Towards the end of my fourth grade year the teacher started throwing text books and flipping over desks. A few years later he was arrested (and, I assume, canned) for hurling a chair at a student's head.
Do whatever you need to do to keep your kid interested in learning, and check the teacher on their shit so they don't go further with it.
posted by gally99 at 3:32 PM on October 15, 2010
The kids who got shamed like that when I was in elementary school in the early '90s usually didn't improve. It doesn't seem like this is an effective tactic to get kids to behave or do better in school, it just makes them hate school and put even less effort into it. You aren't overreacting. Contact the PTA, or go above the principal's head.
posted by elpea at 3:34 PM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by elpea at 3:34 PM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
I teach 18-21 year olds, and when they don't put their name on a paper, I send out a quick e-mail to check whose it is. I don't make them rip it up in front of me.
Maybe it's not comparable, but this kind of punishment for something like not putting a name on a paper seems extreme. Did the teacher set rules like this beginning of the year? If an assignment was turned in without a name, it wouldn't be taken (or it would be ripped up, etc etc)?
The second situation is different, but I still believe the educator should respect the student, no matter the age. Maybe I, like some of the other posters, have trouble with watching big folks lord power over little folks, but I don't think you overreacted in either situation.
Parents and teachers should work together for a child's well being. If one of those things is off, you have every right to straighten it out.
posted by SNWidget at 4:01 PM on October 15, 2010
Maybe it's not comparable, but this kind of punishment for something like not putting a name on a paper seems extreme. Did the teacher set rules like this beginning of the year? If an assignment was turned in without a name, it wouldn't be taken (or it would be ripped up, etc etc)?
The second situation is different, but I still believe the educator should respect the student, no matter the age. Maybe I, like some of the other posters, have trouble with watching big folks lord power over little folks, but I don't think you overreacted in either situation.
Parents and teachers should work together for a child's well being. If one of those things is off, you have every right to straighten it out.
posted by SNWidget at 4:01 PM on October 15, 2010
This teacher is a hot mess if ever there was one.
We've been talking (as a nation) about bullying a lot lately, what with the rash of bullying related suicides.
This teacher is a bully. She's setting a rotten example for a bunch of ten year olds. Shame on her.
If I had the resources, I'd switch schools with the quickness, and send a note to the school board explaining why they won't being getting your child's state funding allotment/tuition anymore. Name names. Or, I'd talk to a lawyer.
Good luck to you. This situation sucks.
posted by Leta at 4:37 PM on October 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
We've been talking (as a nation) about bullying a lot lately, what with the rash of bullying related suicides.
This teacher is a bully. She's setting a rotten example for a bunch of ten year olds. Shame on her.
If I had the resources, I'd switch schools with the quickness, and send a note to the school board explaining why they won't being getting your child's state funding allotment/tuition anymore. Name names. Or, I'd talk to a lawyer.
Good luck to you. This situation sucks.
posted by Leta at 4:37 PM on October 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
Principal here.
While I have seen some teachers use these types of tactics, best practice is to speak to the child privately about the issues, not in front of their peers. Most teachers will ask a child to step into the hall and speak with them there.
As an administrator, when faced with a concerned parent, I will support the teacher unless I feel that the parent has a valid concern. In that case I will tell the parent that I will clarify the issue with the teacher. These can be very tricky conversations.
I will usually try to get the teacher's side of the story before I speak with the parent if possible. I always listen to what the parent has to say and might even offer some suggestions about ways to handle the issue, but I wouldn't be dismissive of a parent's concerns in the manner you describe. You have a right to expect that your child be treated with dignity and respect no matter the circumstance.
Have you spoken with the teacher or did you go straight to the principal? Maybe there is another side of the story. Children sometimes put a different slant on the story for their parents. As a teacher, I would often ask a student to tell the story again in front of both of us. Usually they have told their parent only part of the story and will fess up when they have to tell it in front of the teacher. I'm not saying that's what happened in your case but it is often helpful to try, at least, to straighten it out with the teacher first. If you are not satisfied, then go to the principal.
posted by tamitang at 4:54 PM on October 15, 2010
While I have seen some teachers use these types of tactics, best practice is to speak to the child privately about the issues, not in front of their peers. Most teachers will ask a child to step into the hall and speak with them there.
As an administrator, when faced with a concerned parent, I will support the teacher unless I feel that the parent has a valid concern. In that case I will tell the parent that I will clarify the issue with the teacher. These can be very tricky conversations.
I will usually try to get the teacher's side of the story before I speak with the parent if possible. I always listen to what the parent has to say and might even offer some suggestions about ways to handle the issue, but I wouldn't be dismissive of a parent's concerns in the manner you describe. You have a right to expect that your child be treated with dignity and respect no matter the circumstance.
Have you spoken with the teacher or did you go straight to the principal? Maybe there is another side of the story. Children sometimes put a different slant on the story for their parents. As a teacher, I would often ask a student to tell the story again in front of both of us. Usually they have told their parent only part of the story and will fess up when they have to tell it in front of the teacher. I'm not saying that's what happened in your case but it is often helpful to try, at least, to straighten it out with the teacher first. If you are not satisfied, then go to the principal.
posted by tamitang at 4:54 PM on October 15, 2010
This sort of stuff was common back when I was in school back in the early 90s and again when I worked at a school in the 00s. Even nice teachers did it. In fact, I think every teacher up through junior high at least did some variation of that. They were harsher if the kid had been talking or not paying attention during the time they were being given instructions. (Other common things to be put on the spot for: being late to class, talking, passing notes, eating during class, or not completing assignments.) Embarrassment was just part of the punishment for not paying attention or following rules. I understand this is probably not a good tactic, but from what I know of elementary school, it's so normal that I wouldn't think of making a complaint.
But if your child is literally the only one that ever gets singled out like this, then I would insist on her being moved. I'm not sure she's necessarily the best objective judge of that, though, since she might not take note of it unless it happens to her. There's a difference between an embarrassing punishment everyone goes through when they mess up and being personally persecuted by an adult. (The latter did happen to me in third grade, and my parents had to have have several meetings with the principal.)
posted by wending my way at 11:17 PM on October 15, 2010
But if your child is literally the only one that ever gets singled out like this, then I would insist on her being moved. I'm not sure she's necessarily the best objective judge of that, though, since she might not take note of it unless it happens to her. There's a difference between an embarrassing punishment everyone goes through when they mess up and being personally persecuted by an adult. (The latter did happen to me in third grade, and my parents had to have have several meetings with the principal.)
posted by wending my way at 11:17 PM on October 15, 2010
When my husband was in third grade, his teacher developed a dislike for him (or something); basically, singled him out for discipline much more than all the other students. He became a problem student, acting out more and more all of the time and getting in trouble frequently. When he moved up a grade, the 3rd grade teacher "warned" the 4th grade teacher and things just got even worse. Multiple parent-teacher conferences, and parent-teacher-principal discussions just spun wheels, didn't actually do anything.
In-laws, out of frustration, sold their house and moved across town to get him into a different school in 5th grade. In 5th grade, he was never a problem child, never a discipline problem, never had issues. At the end of the year, the 5th grade teacher approached the in-laws and said, "I just got around to reading his file from the last school. I didn't want to do it earlier and end up with the wrong impression of a kid. So, now I've read the file...and I'm wondering who on earth the kid they're describing was, because it certainly wasn't your son."
Being in an oppressive, over-disciplined environment turned him into a problem child. Getting to a different school, where they didn't start off with a preconceived notion that he was a problem, miraculously cured the discipline behaviors. Mom-in-law says she regrets not moving when she could tell something was wrong, but before she realized how bad it had gotten.
posted by galadriel at 7:37 PM on October 16, 2010 [3 favorites]
In-laws, out of frustration, sold their house and moved across town to get him into a different school in 5th grade. In 5th grade, he was never a problem child, never a discipline problem, never had issues. At the end of the year, the 5th grade teacher approached the in-laws and said, "I just got around to reading his file from the last school. I didn't want to do it earlier and end up with the wrong impression of a kid. So, now I've read the file...and I'm wondering who on earth the kid they're describing was, because it certainly wasn't your son."
Being in an oppressive, over-disciplined environment turned him into a problem child. Getting to a different school, where they didn't start off with a preconceived notion that he was a problem, miraculously cured the discipline behaviors. Mom-in-law says she regrets not moving when she could tell something was wrong, but before she realized how bad it had gotten.
posted by galadriel at 7:37 PM on October 16, 2010 [3 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by ClaudiaCenter at 8:39 AM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]