How should one evaluate the condition of a used digital SLR?
October 15, 2010 12:31 AM Subscribe
How should one evaluate the condition of a used digital SLR?
My sister is going to upgrade to something like a Canon 5D in the near future. While she finds the price of a used one attractive she is also leery of potentially expensive problems lurking unseen inside the thing.
If this were a used car I'd say, "Take it to a mechanic." Is that all that can be done -- have a technician evaluate it?
Have you bought used pro/pro-sumer cameras/lenses? If so, how did you ensure the thing worked as it should before handing over the dosh?
My sister is going to upgrade to something like a Canon 5D in the near future. While she finds the price of a used one attractive she is also leery of potentially expensive problems lurking unseen inside the thing.
If this were a used car I'd say, "Take it to a mechanic." Is that all that can be done -- have a technician evaluate it?
Have you bought used pro/pro-sumer cameras/lenses? If so, how did you ensure the thing worked as it should before handing over the dosh?
Best answer: Unless you have reason to think otherwise, expect the battery to be old and tired. So factor a new battery into your price consideration (it takes a bp511a. Something like this outta work).
Check all the buttons and switches and the thumbwheel and make sure they are all work smoothly.
Dust and scratches on the sensor will be more visible with a small aperture (big f number). They're also easier to see if there's no other detail to get in the way. Indoors take a picture of a white wall, at ISO 100, f/22 (or however big your lens will let you go), and however long it takes to expose it properly, ideally a couple seconds - and keep the camera moving while you're doing this - so there's no details in your scene to confuse your eye. Anything that's not totally flat is on the sensor. here's what my sensor looks like (you have to zoom in to see the dust). I do need to clean it, as shown by all the little specs and hairs. However, even like that, it's not noticeable on a real scene, at a more usable f-stop. The darker part in the lower left is probably also dirt, but could conceivably be something to worry about.
If you have a decent camera shop (not Wolf/Ritz) they will be able to clean the sensor - or you can do it yourself (but it's a huge PITA). It's the things you can't clean that you will need to worry about. The can also give the camera a once-over.
The other expensive thing that can go wrong is the shutter can wear out. Ask them how many shots have been taken with it. They can lie, but unfortunately I don't think there's a way for you to check without sending it to Canon. It looks like the 5d is pretty sturdy though - rated for 100k shutter actuations and often lasts much longer. (that's a $250 procedure)
posted by aubilenon at 1:10 AM on October 15, 2010 [3 favorites]
Check all the buttons and switches and the thumbwheel and make sure they are all work smoothly.
Dust and scratches on the sensor will be more visible with a small aperture (big f number). They're also easier to see if there's no other detail to get in the way. Indoors take a picture of a white wall, at ISO 100, f/22 (or however big your lens will let you go), and however long it takes to expose it properly, ideally a couple seconds - and keep the camera moving while you're doing this - so there's no details in your scene to confuse your eye. Anything that's not totally flat is on the sensor. here's what my sensor looks like (you have to zoom in to see the dust). I do need to clean it, as shown by all the little specs and hairs. However, even like that, it's not noticeable on a real scene, at a more usable f-stop. The darker part in the lower left is probably also dirt, but could conceivably be something to worry about.
If you have a decent camera shop (not Wolf/Ritz) they will be able to clean the sensor - or you can do it yourself (but it's a huge PITA). It's the things you can't clean that you will need to worry about. The can also give the camera a once-over.
The other expensive thing that can go wrong is the shutter can wear out. Ask them how many shots have been taken with it. They can lie, but unfortunately I don't think there's a way for you to check without sending it to Canon. It looks like the 5d is pretty sturdy though - rated for 100k shutter actuations and often lasts much longer. (that's a $250 procedure)
posted by aubilenon at 1:10 AM on October 15, 2010 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I bought a second-hand 5D. I also have a few second-hand lenses. I got a great deal on the 5D, and bought it from a photographer than I knew well and trusted implicitly. The lenses I bought from a recognised and well-respected pro shop.
The 5D is great, and the age of the camera means that the picture quality is unmatched for the price. You do have to be aware that you're buying old tech in terms of the autofocus, the metering, the menu system, the LCD screen, etc. But the image quality is significantly better than any crop-sensor camera, and the low light performance is very good indeed, especially with modern RAW processing software like Lightroom 3. But don't be unrealistic - it's not going to perform in the same way as a 5D MK II or a D700, both of which themselves are due to be replaced soonish.
You can't find out the shutter actuations without sending it to Canon. Period. Unless the original owner has all the digital files they ever took with it and wants to count them all up for you, you've got no idea at all. Some people say there's a count that gets embedded inside images, but I've looked into it and it's patently untrue. I saw a 1Ds MK II that had been used for several years several times a week say that it had shot 1000 pictures, which was absurd, as the photographer could shoot several times that a day.
One thing that you can do with Canon is get the mirror replaced. The adhesive that secures it has been known to weaken and let the mirror detach. This happened to me quite literally straight after I shot the "winning" shot on a job. I was quite stressed out. Luckily, Canon replace it for free.
Sensor cleaning isn't hard, but you do have to be a bit meticulous. Aubilenon's method above works very well for detecting dust, and the Arctic Butterfly works really well for getting rid of it, though I might ask for a professional clean to be done before I paid for it.
Other things to check:
How clean is the viewfinder? It's unlikely, but if there's some gunk stuck in there then it's hard to get out.
Bring along a Canon flash and make sure that it not only fires, but conveys the proper ETTL information. Again, it's unlikely, but I have heard of the hot shoe being damaged.
Check carefully to see if the grippy plastic stuff is intact. It might be worn, but it shouldn't be peeling away.
posted by Magnakai at 1:48 AM on October 15, 2010
The 5D is great, and the age of the camera means that the picture quality is unmatched for the price. You do have to be aware that you're buying old tech in terms of the autofocus, the metering, the menu system, the LCD screen, etc. But the image quality is significantly better than any crop-sensor camera, and the low light performance is very good indeed, especially with modern RAW processing software like Lightroom 3. But don't be unrealistic - it's not going to perform in the same way as a 5D MK II or a D700, both of which themselves are due to be replaced soonish.
You can't find out the shutter actuations without sending it to Canon. Period. Unless the original owner has all the digital files they ever took with it and wants to count them all up for you, you've got no idea at all. Some people say there's a count that gets embedded inside images, but I've looked into it and it's patently untrue. I saw a 1Ds MK II that had been used for several years several times a week say that it had shot 1000 pictures, which was absurd, as the photographer could shoot several times that a day.
One thing that you can do with Canon is get the mirror replaced. The adhesive that secures it has been known to weaken and let the mirror detach. This happened to me quite literally straight after I shot the "winning" shot on a job. I was quite stressed out. Luckily, Canon replace it for free.
Sensor cleaning isn't hard, but you do have to be a bit meticulous. Aubilenon's method above works very well for detecting dust, and the Arctic Butterfly works really well for getting rid of it, though I might ask for a professional clean to be done before I paid for it.
Other things to check:
How clean is the viewfinder? It's unlikely, but if there's some gunk stuck in there then it's hard to get out.
Bring along a Canon flash and make sure that it not only fires, but conveys the proper ETTL information. Again, it's unlikely, but I have heard of the hot shoe being damaged.
Check carefully to see if the grippy plastic stuff is intact. It might be worn, but it shouldn't be peeling away.
posted by Magnakai at 1:48 AM on October 15, 2010
Best answer: I've bought six figures worth of camera equipment over the years, mostly new but sometimes used. I wouldn't buy a used DSLR body unless it was either insanely low priced, or I had at least a one week return privilege.
As a working photographer I wouldn't even buy a refurbished body. However, I do think a refurb might be a happy medium for many people, since they generally do come with at least a 90 day warrenty from most places.
Three big potential problems with used DSLR bodies include:
1. Camera may have been water damaged, even though it may function perfectly at the time of purchase. I had two high end electronic film cameras die within a week of each other one year after they were thoroughly soaked in a storm. That's how long it took for the internal corrosion to take its toll.
2. Gunk, or worse, scratches on the imaging sensor. This may not be apparent in pictures taken under all situations, but can be a real problem, especially with extreme wide angle lenses shot at high (numeric) apertures.
3. While shutter actuation count is rarely a real issue, the fit and finish of modern DSLR cameras is good to the point where a cosmetically nearly perfect body may in fact have tons upon tons of exposures on it. I've seen an old Nikon D200 body which was used by one of those "your kid with Santa" operations that had a shutter fail at 100,000 actuations. It looked like a brand new camera, just out of the box.
4. As I've asserted here in various threads before, each generation of DSLR bodies are usually substantially improved over the former generation. Picture quality is only one side of the coin. Ease and speed of use, battery life, high ISO performance, and rear LCD quality are also among the other factors.
posted by imjustsaying at 3:39 AM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
As a working photographer I wouldn't even buy a refurbished body. However, I do think a refurb might be a happy medium for many people, since they generally do come with at least a 90 day warrenty from most places.
Three big potential problems with used DSLR bodies include:
1. Camera may have been water damaged, even though it may function perfectly at the time of purchase. I had two high end electronic film cameras die within a week of each other one year after they were thoroughly soaked in a storm. That's how long it took for the internal corrosion to take its toll.
2. Gunk, or worse, scratches on the imaging sensor. This may not be apparent in pictures taken under all situations, but can be a real problem, especially with extreme wide angle lenses shot at high (numeric) apertures.
3. While shutter actuation count is rarely a real issue, the fit and finish of modern DSLR cameras is good to the point where a cosmetically nearly perfect body may in fact have tons upon tons of exposures on it. I've seen an old Nikon D200 body which was used by one of those "your kid with Santa" operations that had a shutter fail at 100,000 actuations. It looked like a brand new camera, just out of the box.
4. As I've asserted here in various threads before, each generation of DSLR bodies are usually substantially improved over the former generation. Picture quality is only one side of the coin. Ease and speed of use, battery life, high ISO performance, and rear LCD quality are also among the other factors.
posted by imjustsaying at 3:39 AM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Take someone you trust, who knows more than you or your sister, to the point of purchase. Buying online might not be a good idea for you (or rather your sister) - however;
Notwithstanding the above advice, I have bought and sold via eBay for years and never had casue for concern. That includes such things as D2x's from Japan, VR AFS lenses from Europe and so on.
Part of your answer is actually about *who* is selling it - are they a trustworthy individual? Do whatever you can to ascertain this first and it will help enormously.
I never cease to be amazed at people who buy from me without even sending me an email first - Sure, my adverts are OK, but to just take-on-trust when you're spending such a large amount? Crazy. I don't let them down though :)
I always, but ALWAYS open a dialogue well in advance - I may choose not to buy based on just the tone of responses and so on - much the same to using a shops services; which may be the best answer for her. Use a local friendly well run store if possible and ask them to find one for her, and so on.
posted by DrtyBlvd at 8:16 AM on October 15, 2010
Notwithstanding the above advice, I have bought and sold via eBay for years and never had casue for concern. That includes such things as D2x's from Japan, VR AFS lenses from Europe and so on.
Part of your answer is actually about *who* is selling it - are they a trustworthy individual? Do whatever you can to ascertain this first and it will help enormously.
I never cease to be amazed at people who buy from me without even sending me an email first - Sure, my adverts are OK, but to just take-on-trust when you're spending such a large amount? Crazy. I don't let them down though :)
I always, but ALWAYS open a dialogue well in advance - I may choose not to buy based on just the tone of responses and so on - much the same to using a shops services; which may be the best answer for her. Use a local friendly well run store if possible and ask them to find one for her, and so on.
posted by DrtyBlvd at 8:16 AM on October 15, 2010
Buy a factory refurb with a warranty from one of the reputable dealers (I like Adorama and B&H).
If you're buying in person, check for damage and scratches. Check that all the functions work. Check the number of shutter actuations. (can be read from the EXIF data if you take a picture and load it onto a laptop or something)
I have had nothing but a great experience with a Nikon D70s refurbished by Nikon that I got back in 2006. It came with a brand spanking new shutter mechanism, and now I've got about 9,000 shutter releases on it and it still works great. I would definitely go the same route again. I'd be more leery of buying a camera that was refurbed by a shop, as that implies to me that it was basically just cleaned and inspected with little to no replacement of old parts.
Only in the last year or so has the ISO performance and other features on newer models gotten me thinking I might like to have a new body. Maybe when the D90s successor is released I'll get a D90. ;)
posted by wierdo at 8:56 AM on October 15, 2010
If you're buying in person, check for damage and scratches. Check that all the functions work. Check the number of shutter actuations. (can be read from the EXIF data if you take a picture and load it onto a laptop or something)
I have had nothing but a great experience with a Nikon D70s refurbished by Nikon that I got back in 2006. It came with a brand spanking new shutter mechanism, and now I've got about 9,000 shutter releases on it and it still works great. I would definitely go the same route again. I'd be more leery of buying a camera that was refurbed by a shop, as that implies to me that it was basically just cleaned and inspected with little to no replacement of old parts.
Only in the last year or so has the ISO performance and other features on newer models gotten me thinking I might like to have a new body. Maybe when the D90s successor is released I'll get a D90. ;)
posted by wierdo at 8:56 AM on October 15, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
Check the lens for dust, especially fungus.
Check the autofocus - do is work? does it focus hunt? does it back or forward focus? (i.e, even though it says it's in focus, it's actually a little bit out).
To be honest, unless it's a newish one, a real bargain, or very expensive, I personally would be leery about risking the money. You don't want to spend 500 bucks on something only to have it stuff up three months later, and you're left without a warranty etc.
posted by smoke at 12:54 AM on October 15, 2010