John the baptist baptized?
October 10, 2010 7:01 PM Subscribe
Was John the baptist baptized?
A friend of mine asked this question today and I wanted to clarify my google search with the good people of askmefi. It seems to me that the person who baptized Jesus Christ would have been baptized, but Jesus is well known for shying away from the norm and picking "common" people to do extraordinary things. Please can we keep this discussion to the historical and don't turn this into a religious debate.
A friend of mine asked this question today and I wanted to clarify my google search with the good people of askmefi. It seems to me that the person who baptized Jesus Christ would have been baptized, but Jesus is well known for shying away from the norm and picking "common" people to do extraordinary things. Please can we keep this discussion to the historical and don't turn this into a religious debate.
Why would it seem to you that "the person who baptized Jesus Christ would have been baptized"?
If you're referring to the Christian or proto-Christian rite of baptism, then John the Baptist wasn't baptized by anybody at the time that he baptized Jesus.
If you're using the term "baptism" to include various types of ritual cleansing practiced by Jews of that era, then John and many, many other people were baptized, but that's a stretch, really.
posted by maudlin at 7:15 PM on October 10, 2010
If you're referring to the Christian or proto-Christian rite of baptism, then John the Baptist wasn't baptized by anybody at the time that he baptized Jesus.
If you're using the term "baptism" to include various types of ritual cleansing practiced by Jews of that era, then John and many, many other people were baptized, but that's a stretch, really.
posted by maudlin at 7:15 PM on October 10, 2010
It is possible that John the Baptist was baptized. This depends on whether or not you think that he was an Essene. If he was baptized as part of the Essene rituals, though, this would be different than what we think of as baptism today. The Essene practice of baptism was a ritual cleansing to show repentance, performed once yearly. The collection of books in the New Testament don't mention it one way or another (his baptism nor whether he was an Essene).
You have an interesting question, and many people have wondered which religious sects of that time influenced Jesus, his followers, and of course John the Baptist.
posted by Houstonian at 8:13 PM on October 10, 2010
You have an interesting question, and many people have wondered which religious sects of that time influenced Jesus, his followers, and of course John the Baptist.
posted by Houstonian at 8:13 PM on October 10, 2010
The books in the New Testament don't mention it...
posted by Houstonian at 8:16 PM on October 10, 2010
posted by Houstonian at 8:16 PM on October 10, 2010
Jesus is well known for shying away from the norm and picking "common" people to do extraordinary things.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this. Could you clarify?
posted by pised at 9:44 PM on October 10, 2010
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this. Could you clarify?
posted by pised at 9:44 PM on October 10, 2010
The NIV doesn't mention it in any of the four gospels. In fact, Matthew 4:13 states "But John tried to deter him, saying "I need to be baptised by you, and do you come to me?". it's quite possible that John was baptised after he baptised Jesus, but that's not specifically mentioned.
posted by Solomon at 1:32 AM on October 11, 2010
posted by Solomon at 1:32 AM on October 11, 2010
You might like to read this paper (pdf): "The Essene Yearly Renewal Ceremony and the Baptism of Repentance." From the introduction:
The task of this article is to examine the practice of ritual immersion among the Essenes based on evidence from the Dead Sea Scrolls and secondary sources, to elucidate the role of immersion in the covenant renewal ceremony, and to explore the possible relationship between ritual immersion at Qumran and the baptism of repentance and initiation rites of John the Baptist.posted by Houstonian at 4:49 AM on October 11, 2010
"Baptism" in terms of the Christian sacrament obviously didn't exist until after Jesus came on the scene, so it would have been impossible for John to have received Christian baptism.
But ceremonial washing with water--mikvah--was an essential part of the Judaic ceremonial system. If one became unclean for one of a variety of reasons, ceremonial washing was frequently required before one was considered clean again. Even though there is no Scriptural testimony to that effect it's not unlikely that John participated in this, whether or not he was an Essene, because most faithful first-century Jews probably would have done so at some point in their lives.
The reason that John's baptism was so shocking at the time was that mikvah was also required as part of the conversion to Judaism. So when John goes around baptizing Jews who weren't known to be ceremonially unclean, the suggestion was that being a Jew was not, in itself, "enough," and that some sort of "conversion" was necessary.
To put it mildly, that's something pretty much guaranteed to bother a first-century Jew.
posted by valkyryn at 5:46 AM on October 11, 2010 [4 favorites]
But ceremonial washing with water--mikvah--was an essential part of the Judaic ceremonial system. If one became unclean for one of a variety of reasons, ceremonial washing was frequently required before one was considered clean again. Even though there is no Scriptural testimony to that effect it's not unlikely that John participated in this, whether or not he was an Essene, because most faithful first-century Jews probably would have done so at some point in their lives.
The reason that John's baptism was so shocking at the time was that mikvah was also required as part of the conversion to Judaism. So when John goes around baptizing Jews who weren't known to be ceremonially unclean, the suggestion was that being a Jew was not, in itself, "enough," and that some sort of "conversion" was necessary.
To put it mildly, that's something pretty much guaranteed to bother a first-century Jew.
posted by valkyryn at 5:46 AM on October 11, 2010 [4 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
(There was one instance of dipping in the OT but this was when Naaman the leper was told by a prophet to dip seven times in the Jordan to cure his leprosy (it worked) but this was not baptism per se. )
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 7:08 PM on October 10, 2010