Help a sister out
October 8, 2010 12:21 PM Subscribe
Did I do the right thing by telling a friend off about her abusive ex? If not...how to fix, please?
I have a very dear friend. I have recently been celebrating her emergence from a relationship that was textbook emotionally abusive -- and since the guy has clear anger management problems I've witnessed myself, it was only ever a matter of time before he punched her instead of a wall.
Now that she's moved on and met someone great and is thriving on life, he has returned as abusers are prone to do. The "good" behavior in his cycle is at an all-time high -- he blew right back in and said that he's realized the errors of all his ways so why don't they get married?
She called me up to tell me and showed me the text message wherein he proposed (!!!!!!). Today I find out that she is seriously considering taking him back.
In a fit of being a bad friend, I lost it on her. I ranted out a huge diatribe of every single thing that I have said before -- he is an abuser, she admits it, she takes his shit even when she knows it's wrong and knows she can do better. She admits she has been happier than ever with this new guy (who is devastated) but that this monster of an ex "might really mean it" this time. I said that I just cannot stand to hear anymore about this guy because I feel physically wracked every time I have to explain AGAIN to her that he is a cyclical, abusive piece of shit who is manipulating her and does not mean it and is going to hit her (because a high this good is going to be followed by a low just as intense, and he's already piling on the guilt and the shame...after a year or so of therapy myself I can see this from a mile away). Then I told her to get therapy herself because this is just bringing me down, too, and I can't take it anymore.
Was it selfish of me to tell her that I don't want to hear about him anymore? I don't mean that we chat once or twice a week about him...I mean it is a near-constant online conversation, texts, and phone everyday where she is freaking out over what to do. I have repeated over and over ad nauseam that: he is an abuser; she must be the one to stop it; he has not changed; she must walk away and cease contact with him (including blocking numbers). She just will.not.listen and I have tried so hard to help her. I feel like a huge failure as a friend, both because she's going back to him and because I finally let him win the isolation war.
How do I make amends to let her know that I still support her? Not her decision to take him back, I mean, but make sure she knows I am still there for her when this comes full circle? I feel like I jumped on the bandwagon with other friends who've bailed on her over this guy, and I didn't mean to.
I have a very dear friend. I have recently been celebrating her emergence from a relationship that was textbook emotionally abusive -- and since the guy has clear anger management problems I've witnessed myself, it was only ever a matter of time before he punched her instead of a wall.
Now that she's moved on and met someone great and is thriving on life, he has returned as abusers are prone to do. The "good" behavior in his cycle is at an all-time high -- he blew right back in and said that he's realized the errors of all his ways so why don't they get married?
She called me up to tell me and showed me the text message wherein he proposed (!!!!!!). Today I find out that she is seriously considering taking him back.
In a fit of being a bad friend, I lost it on her. I ranted out a huge diatribe of every single thing that I have said before -- he is an abuser, she admits it, she takes his shit even when she knows it's wrong and knows she can do better. She admits she has been happier than ever with this new guy (who is devastated) but that this monster of an ex "might really mean it" this time. I said that I just cannot stand to hear anymore about this guy because I feel physically wracked every time I have to explain AGAIN to her that he is a cyclical, abusive piece of shit who is manipulating her and does not mean it and is going to hit her (because a high this good is going to be followed by a low just as intense, and he's already piling on the guilt and the shame...after a year or so of therapy myself I can see this from a mile away). Then I told her to get therapy herself because this is just bringing me down, too, and I can't take it anymore.
Was it selfish of me to tell her that I don't want to hear about him anymore? I don't mean that we chat once or twice a week about him...I mean it is a near-constant online conversation, texts, and phone everyday where she is freaking out over what to do. I have repeated over and over ad nauseam that: he is an abuser; she must be the one to stop it; he has not changed; she must walk away and cease contact with him (including blocking numbers). She just will.not.listen and I have tried so hard to help her. I feel like a huge failure as a friend, both because she's going back to him and because I finally let him win the isolation war.
How do I make amends to let her know that I still support her? Not her decision to take him back, I mean, but make sure she knows I am still there for her when this comes full circle? I feel like I jumped on the bandwagon with other friends who've bailed on her over this guy, and I didn't mean to.
Send her an email that says what you did at the end. That you are still here for her as a friend, but that you can't and won't hear more about this abuser. As long as she wants to talk about anything But getting back together with abuser, you look forward to it.
You were not a failure as a friend - you had to protect yourself from this abuse, too. Nor will he win if you continue to extend your friendship on other topics.
posted by ldthomps at 12:35 PM on October 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
You were not a failure as a friend - you had to protect yourself from this abuse, too. Nor will he win if you continue to extend your friendship on other topics.
posted by ldthomps at 12:35 PM on October 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
"I love you, even when you're being an idiot. I would really prefer that you not be an idiot."
I lost my best friend/best man because he was dating a psychopath and I refused to be around her. I miss that son of a bitch. Don't know if he's still with her, two years later, but he damn well knows that all it takes is a phone call. Told him that multiple times. That's all you can do, in this situation.
posted by notsnot at 12:38 PM on October 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
I lost my best friend/best man because he was dating a psychopath and I refused to be around her. I miss that son of a bitch. Don't know if he's still with her, two years later, but he damn well knows that all it takes is a phone call. Told him that multiple times. That's all you can do, in this situation.
posted by notsnot at 12:38 PM on October 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
It's not selfish. Many friends of abused women eventually move on. It's incredibly hard to watch someone you love be emotionally and physically tortured in front of you. Part of the abuser's goals is to isolate the victim. Naturally, he'll do anything to keep you as far away from her as he can.
If you have the strength, stick with her. She likely has few support systems left. If you can't handle it, no one would blame you for moving on. She makes her own choices.
Instead of telling her what to do, ask her how you can help (if at all). That may be something as small as telling her she's not crazy over a 2:00am phone call or as pivotal as driving her to a shelter. You never know. Meet her where she's at...figuratively and literally.
posted by WhiteWhale at 12:40 PM on October 8, 2010
If you have the strength, stick with her. She likely has few support systems left. If you can't handle it, no one would blame you for moving on. She makes her own choices.
Instead of telling her what to do, ask her how you can help (if at all). That may be something as small as telling her she's not crazy over a 2:00am phone call or as pivotal as driving her to a shelter. You never know. Meet her where she's at...figuratively and literally.
posted by WhiteWhale at 12:40 PM on October 8, 2010
It's hard not to be abusive to friends who are in abuse cycles, actually! They are used to getting yelled at. This situation sounds a little unfortunate but yes, do call her and express your love and apologies for getting heated. But yes, why not have a boundary about not talking about him? The downside is her isolation. The upside is your sanity.
posted by RJ Reynolds at 12:44 PM on October 8, 2010
posted by RJ Reynolds at 12:44 PM on October 8, 2010
I don't really see what you did as wrong, per se.
I said that I just cannot stand to hear anymore about this guy because I feel physically wracked every time I have to explain AGAIN to her that he is a cyclical, abusive piece of shit who is manipulating her and does not mean it and is going to hit her
'nuff said.
I would worry about #1 in this situation and that is you. My friend is potentially acting out of false hope, digging her own hole, and is completely blind to see it even though I've been a constant support trying to make her see what is so plainly evident to me. I am tiring of conversations with her about this over and over and over and over and over and over. I need to separate, leave with my sanity, and not enable her by condoning and cosigning her poor decision making. In the unlikely event I am wrong, she is still happy, and I will make my amends then. In the more likely event that I am correct, I will help her if and when it comes to blows (or otherwise gets really bad), and then only if she is willing to take appropriate and life improving steps. I care deeply about her, but she is hurting herself emotionally, potentially physically (by remaining), straining the vestiges of a good friendship, and causing anxiety and anguish in me.
I cannot save her from herself. I can, however, save me from her toxic relationship. I would send her an email or text that states that I care about her deeply, and want only the best for her, but I cannot continue in this vein. I would state that I am not just upset that she isn't doing what I think she should do, but that it's primarily the potential danger she is placing herself that is causing me very real pain, and while perhaps that is my issue, it is not something that I can maintain any longer. I would close by stating that I love her, and I would do anything for her, but only if she is willing to take life improving steps in her relationship with this individual, whatever that is. I would also promise to remain as open as possible, and reevaluate my feelings on this in the future should everything go well with this (if he got serious help that I didn't know about, etc.), and that I will miss her deeply, and hope beyond all hopes that this will not be the state of the friendship (or worse) months if not years from now.
posted by Debaser626 at 12:50 PM on October 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
I said that I just cannot stand to hear anymore about this guy because I feel physically wracked every time I have to explain AGAIN to her that he is a cyclical, abusive piece of shit who is manipulating her and does not mean it and is going to hit her
'nuff said.
I would worry about #1 in this situation and that is you. My friend is potentially acting out of false hope, digging her own hole, and is completely blind to see it even though I've been a constant support trying to make her see what is so plainly evident to me. I am tiring of conversations with her about this over and over and over and over and over and over. I need to separate, leave with my sanity, and not enable her by condoning and cosigning her poor decision making. In the unlikely event I am wrong, she is still happy, and I will make my amends then. In the more likely event that I am correct, I will help her if and when it comes to blows (or otherwise gets really bad), and then only if she is willing to take appropriate and life improving steps. I care deeply about her, but she is hurting herself emotionally, potentially physically (by remaining), straining the vestiges of a good friendship, and causing anxiety and anguish in me.
I cannot save her from herself. I can, however, save me from her toxic relationship. I would send her an email or text that states that I care about her deeply, and want only the best for her, but I cannot continue in this vein. I would state that I am not just upset that she isn't doing what I think she should do, but that it's primarily the potential danger she is placing herself that is causing me very real pain, and while perhaps that is my issue, it is not something that I can maintain any longer. I would close by stating that I love her, and I would do anything for her, but only if she is willing to take life improving steps in her relationship with this individual, whatever that is. I would also promise to remain as open as possible, and reevaluate my feelings on this in the future should everything go well with this (if he got serious help that I didn't know about, etc.), and that I will miss her deeply, and hope beyond all hopes that this will not be the state of the friendship (or worse) months if not years from now.
posted by Debaser626 at 12:50 PM on October 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
This sort of situation gets asked about a lot on Dan Savage's podcast, and time and time again, he winds up advising people that, sometimes, when a friend of yours is about to make a horrible, horrible mistake with someone, it's necessary to put your friendship with them on the line in order to let them know things they may not want to hear.
I don't agree with everything he says, but I do about this issue. I'm not sure if your present circumstance is at this point yet, but it sounds close.
I would have done the exact same thing in your shoes.
posted by alphanerd at 1:17 PM on October 8, 2010 [4 favorites]
I don't agree with everything he says, but I do about this issue. I'm not sure if your present circumstance is at this point yet, but it sounds close.
I would have done the exact same thing in your shoes.
posted by alphanerd at 1:17 PM on October 8, 2010 [4 favorites]
Best answer: I would have done exactly what you did. Real friends tell their friends the hard stuff. You have said your piece, though, now. All you can do is let her know that you are sorry you got heated, but that you meant what you said and that you're concerned she's blinding herself to the truth. Draw the line then -- that you'll only be around if she doesn't want to talk about the ex-that-is-no-longer-an-ex. And then move on with your life. You cannot be her crutch, you cannot get down in the hole with her. This is her battle. She may have to experience a drastically serious injury and or situation PERSONALLY in order to see the light, and that may not be for months or years.
You did the right thing. Now, send her good thoughts, hope for the best, and move on.
posted by patronuscharms at 1:22 PM on October 8, 2010
You did the right thing. Now, send her good thoughts, hope for the best, and move on.
posted by patronuscharms at 1:22 PM on October 8, 2010
As said above, emotionally abused people are used to being yelled at. That's why she's thinking about going back -- yelling and histrionics and horrible drama are familiar, even when not comfortable.
You might want to go with her to a battered women's support group. When I went (after an abusive marriage fell apart), I realized that every woman there told the same story, of taking the man back, or of being the kind of person or growing to be the kind of person who just took crap from people and made excuses for it. Think wounded lamb, attracting the Big Bad Wolf every single time. I determined never, ever to be that wounded lamb again, no matter what it took. If I were you, I wouldn't say anything while there -- just let others tell their stories. She'll get the message.
And if she doesn't, and gets back with him, she'll need friends more than ever. Keep telling her that she's smart and that she knows what she really needs to do. She does know. Helping her not feel powerless to escape the abuse tractor beam is something you can help with. Maybe you'd get better results if you asked her calmly, "Why do you prefer to be treated badly?"...In other words, why do YOU (your friend) actively participate in actions and events that are harmful to YOU? Why do YOU invite bad people in?
I do not by these statements mean that she is asking for abuse. But she cannot control him, and will not, ever. She CAN control her own actions, and put herself in defense mode if she knows she tends to take on the Wounded Lamb role. She can determine never to do that again, and to work on her weaknesses, and to invite healthy relationships. Accepting the truth was what finally set me free. (And I'm now happily married with 3 kids.)
posted by mdiskin at 1:26 PM on October 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
You might want to go with her to a battered women's support group. When I went (after an abusive marriage fell apart), I realized that every woman there told the same story, of taking the man back, or of being the kind of person or growing to be the kind of person who just took crap from people and made excuses for it. Think wounded lamb, attracting the Big Bad Wolf every single time. I determined never, ever to be that wounded lamb again, no matter what it took. If I were you, I wouldn't say anything while there -- just let others tell their stories. She'll get the message.
And if she doesn't, and gets back with him, she'll need friends more than ever. Keep telling her that she's smart and that she knows what she really needs to do. She does know. Helping her not feel powerless to escape the abuse tractor beam is something you can help with. Maybe you'd get better results if you asked her calmly, "Why do you prefer to be treated badly?"...In other words, why do YOU (your friend) actively participate in actions and events that are harmful to YOU? Why do YOU invite bad people in?
I do not by these statements mean that she is asking for abuse. But she cannot control him, and will not, ever. She CAN control her own actions, and put herself in defense mode if she knows she tends to take on the Wounded Lamb role. She can determine never to do that again, and to work on her weaknesses, and to invite healthy relationships. Accepting the truth was what finally set me free. (And I'm now happily married with 3 kids.)
posted by mdiskin at 1:26 PM on October 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: You can't argue with a drunk.
You don't have to be friends with one, either.
If this relationship is as one-sided as you make it sound, what have you lost? It's supposed to be mutually satisfying and growth producing.
If you like the hobby of fixing broken people, of course, have fun. A lot of people do.
The truth is a defense in friendship, and the challenge is making it apparent without condemnation. If you failed at part of that, you are in a very large club. Of the two, the truth is the more valuable.
Don't be afraid of losing this particular 'friend'. It's like she's checking your wallet to make sure you have enough money to pay off her credit cards, (again!).
posted by FauxScot at 2:49 PM on October 8, 2010
You don't have to be friends with one, either.
If this relationship is as one-sided as you make it sound, what have you lost? It's supposed to be mutually satisfying and growth producing.
If you like the hobby of fixing broken people, of course, have fun. A lot of people do.
The truth is a defense in friendship, and the challenge is making it apparent without condemnation. If you failed at part of that, you are in a very large club. Of the two, the truth is the more valuable.
Don't be afraid of losing this particular 'friend'. It's like she's checking your wallet to make sure you have enough money to pay off her credit cards, (again!).
posted by FauxScot at 2:49 PM on October 8, 2010
You did the right thing. She needs to DTMFA. Maybe this will wake her up.
posted by Guy_Inamonkeysuit at 3:34 PM on October 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Guy_Inamonkeysuit at 3:34 PM on October 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
How do I make amends to let her know that I still support her
You say, I love you and I'm always here for you.
Then you wait.
(You have to let her get out of this with her pride intact because it's going to take a serious hit somewhere along the line. Don't add 'I told you so' to that burden.)
posted by A Terrible Llama at 9:51 AM on October 9, 2010
You say, I love you and I'm always here for you.
Then you wait.
(You have to let her get out of this with her pride intact because it's going to take a serious hit somewhere along the line. Don't add 'I told you so' to that burden.)
posted by A Terrible Llama at 9:51 AM on October 9, 2010
You say, "I love you. I'm your friend and I'm always here. And I support your right to choose whatever you want for your life. I'm very concerned about your relationship with _____ and I'm concerned that you are going to continue to be hurt."
Then you have the painful reality of abuse. The abuser will continue to isolate her. And as people drop away, she'll be left more and more isolated. This can make it even harder to leave. So I don't personally recommend saying, "Hey. I'm your friend. I can't deal with you till you're out" and walking away.
I'd go with one of these options instead. "Hey, I'm your friend. I love you. I have to set a boundary here and say that it's too painful for me to hear about. We can talk about anything else. But I can't talk to you about X." You can elaborate on whether you can stand to be in his presence or whatever, but do note that you have to define your boundaries. You can give her the number of a counsellor, offer to help program crisis centre numbers into her phone, offer to go to women's shelter with her, call a crisis/women's centre with her, go to a counsellor with her, etc. You can tell her you're there, day or night, if she wants to get out. But you can still set your boundaries. I think the important thing is to let her know you 100% her as a person and you will help.
Or you can stand by. Let her know that what she's going through isn't okay. Offer all the help above. And steer her toward counselling and support. You can say, "That's abuse. I'm worried about you. I really think it might be helpful if you and I could go to a counsellor together and talk about how you can work through this." Offer her options. Give her power. Rather than telling her she has to leave, tell her the counsellor or women's shelter or whatever can help her look at her options and work through this situation. It doesn't have to be black and white. When she's so emotionally destroyed, she may not be able to even see that this abuse is not her fault, that she's not simply miscommunicating, that this isn't just a bad phase, etc. This is the effect of the abuse. I believe it takes the average abused woman 7 attempts to leave an abusive relationship. This isn't because the woman is bad or flawed or not listening to reason. It's that she's abused. She's been disempowered. So helping her to see that there are options to work through this and that people will help her make her OWN choices will really make a difference. I know that leaving seems so obvious, but she's had no power and to get out of this, she will need to start to get some power back. Just being able to see that there are options to work through this can help. (And, in saying that, please don't think I'm advocating staying. But it may be more helpful and safer for her to have that option than to up and leave. Honestly, women are at most risk when they leave a relationship.)
You sound like a really, really good friend. You really have to take care of yourself and it's fantastic that you have such a strong sense of what's safe for you. I think that listening to those feelings and helping to define your own boundaries here, while recognizing what abuse does, will be the answer. If you really can't take this any more, that's okay and you can set that limit in a way that works for you and helps your friend.
posted by acoutu at 10:53 AM on October 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
Then you have the painful reality of abuse. The abuser will continue to isolate her. And as people drop away, she'll be left more and more isolated. This can make it even harder to leave. So I don't personally recommend saying, "Hey. I'm your friend. I can't deal with you till you're out" and walking away.
I'd go with one of these options instead. "Hey, I'm your friend. I love you. I have to set a boundary here and say that it's too painful for me to hear about
Or you can stand by. Let her know that what she's going through isn't okay. Offer all the help above. And steer her toward counselling and support. You can say, "That's abuse. I'm worried about you. I really think it might be helpful if you and I could go to a counsellor together and talk about how you can work through this." Offer her options. Give her power. Rather than telling her she has to leave, tell her the counsellor or women's shelter or whatever can help her look at her options and work through this situation. It doesn't have to be black and white. When she's so emotionally destroyed, she may not be able to even see that this abuse is not her fault, that she's not simply miscommunicating, that this isn't just a bad phase, etc. This is the effect of the abuse. I believe it takes the average abused woman 7 attempts to leave an abusive relationship. This isn't because the woman is bad or flawed or not listening to reason. It's that she's abused. She's been disempowered. So helping her to see that there are options to work through this and that people will help her make her OWN choices will really make a difference. I know that leaving seems so obvious, but she's had no power and to get out of this, she will need to start to get some power back. Just being able to see that there are options to work through this can help. (And, in saying that, please don't think I'm advocating staying. But it may be more helpful and safer for her to have that option than to up and leave. Honestly, women are at most risk when they leave a relationship.)
You sound like a really, really good friend. You really have to take care of yourself and it's fantastic that you have such a strong sense of what's safe for you. I think that listening to those feelings and helping to define your own boundaries here, while recognizing what abuse does, will be the answer. If you really can't take this any more, that's okay and you can set that limit in a way that works for you and helps your friend.
posted by acoutu at 10:53 AM on October 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
I should amend that to add that you could also choose the option of saying you can't interact with her, but that providing her with all those options and resources first and saying you're there when she wants out and that you're always her friend is also a good thing to consider. You do have to look out for youself.
posted by acoutu at 11:41 AM on October 9, 2010
posted by acoutu at 11:41 AM on October 9, 2010
Best answer: I think you did the right thing, but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make it clear that you still want to be friends. Don't cut her off, and don't say that you'll cut her off if she doesn't stop seeing him. One of the reasons abusers have such control over their victims is that they isolate them. She desperately needs a friend like you when things go wrong again - and they will.
In the meantime, do you have a right to tell her to stop talking about him? Absolutely. If she starts talking about him again, interrupt and say, "I love you, but you know how I feel about him, and I really can't talk about him."
But please, don't pull away from her completely. She needs you, and she's going to realize it again soon.
posted by honeydew at 4:39 PM on October 10, 2010
In the meantime, do you have a right to tell her to stop talking about him? Absolutely. If she starts talking about him again, interrupt and say, "I love you, but you know how I feel about him, and I really can't talk about him."
But please, don't pull away from her completely. She needs you, and she's going to realize it again soon.
posted by honeydew at 4:39 PM on October 10, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by motsque at 12:23 PM on October 8, 2010