What if she won't ever do what I need to do?
October 3, 2010 1:54 PM   Subscribe

My fiance has basically told me, that she will NEVER/practically never be willing to do my personal fetishes with me..... I don't know what to do about that.

My fiance has basically told me, that she will NEVER/practically never be willing to do my personal fetishes with me..... I don't know what to do about that. She is 30, and I am 28. I have gotten to do my personal things FOUR TIMES in my whole life (once in high school and three times in college) and never with her.

Number 1, Have you ever had a personal kink and tried to stick it out with a person who would not do it with you, so you never got to do it?
Number 2, Have you ever tried to push/help someone through a strong refusal for your own selfish but honestly deserved needs? That can't work/really be healthy for everyone, right?
Number 3, Have you ever made the executive decision to just lie to a person you love and cheat/sort of cheat on them for their own good and/or so the relationship could last? She would be hurt if she ever knew and I would hate that but I would hate the others too.

I can imagine all of three these paths.... they all sound horrible and cruel. So from your personal experience what parts of the paths am I not expecting? Do they get easier or harder as you go?

NOT options......
I can NOT imagine calling this wedding off, NOT an option. We are both very in love, and have been together almost our entire twenties, and are both very dedicated. I mean we both have moved across the country to be together at three different points in life. But I don't know what path to choose to cope, and I am running out of patience.

And I am almost sure she would consider going to a sex worker to be cheating and so that would not be any better to her than path number 3.

Number 4, Have you ever been on the other side of these paths (or paths very much like them) and had these paths done to you? What am I not thinking of from that perspective?

In the mean time I am feeling more and more cheated and frustrated and resentful. This is NOT an interest that is just going to go away even if I think she hopes it will. It doesn't completely matter but in case you want to know this not something that would be personally unpleasant or creepy for her except for her mental opposition. A lot of perfectly straight/normal people do this in their sex lives. The reason she doesn't want to do it is for psychological reasons, and not something like past trauma, I think just mental embarrassment/thoughts that "it's gross", really.

I know the best answer is, you needed to sort this out a long time ago, but that doesn't help now.....

Yes, I know sex matters in a romance, no cliches please.

T.L.D.R, have you ever been in a relationship where one person's personal fetish was completely incompatible and are you glad about how you/the other person dealt with that?
posted by anonymous to Human Relations (85 answers total) 12 users marked this as a favorite

Have you ever made the executive decision to just lie to a person you love and cheat/sort of cheat on them for their own good and/or so the relationship could last?

The fact that you're considering this means your relationship has serious issues that may go beyond this specific instance. Your partner deserves better than to have her fiance think this is a viable option, especially before marriage.
posted by null terminated at 1:58 PM on October 3, 2010 [20 favorites]

sorry but... you need to tell more about your "fetish" because your question is not clear, i.e. It's not clear if she's uptight or if you're asking too much.
posted by uauage at 2:00 PM on October 3, 2010 [18 favorites]

I think that this depends on what the kink is.

She gave it a try. That means she's GGG.

I think that you need to have a conversation with her to see if it is okay if you get your kink serviced outside of the relationship.
posted by k8t at 2:00 PM on October 3, 2010 [1 favorite]

Oh wait, I see that she hadn't tried it with you. Again, depends on the kink.
posted by k8t at 2:01 PM on October 3, 2010

Number 1 - You can do it but YOU have to get over it and know it's never going to happen.

Number 2 - You don't DESERVE any sexual fetish.

Number 3 - Executive decision? Really? If you really love, or hell, even LIKE this woman why would you even consider that an option? Also are you really so full of yourself that you believe you fulfilling your fetish by cheating is for her own good? Don't you think that would crush her if she found out?

You are being selfish and childish. You want to have your cake and eat it too and that's just not how life and relationships work. If you are sexual incompatible then don't you think it's best to break it off now instead of trying to justify cheating on her before you are even married. Quite frankly, the fact that you are "feeling more and more cheated and frustrated and resentful" tells me all he more that you should NOT get married. Marriage is hard enough without going into it already feeling like she owes you something and she won't give it to you. Grow up.

TLDR - Find a more sexually compatible partner. If you've been together this long and she hasn't changed her mind you need to move on because this one isn't for you.
posted by ThomasBrobber at 2:07 PM on October 3, 2010 [61 favorites]

A lot of perfectly straight/normal people do this in their sex lives. The reason she doesn't want to do it is for psychological reasons, and not something like past trauma, I think just mental embarrassment/thoughts that "it's gross", really.

I've mentioned this in a few other threads about "fetishes" and I just want to mention it here. There'a a bit of a difference between "I have a fetish and I'd like my partner to enjoy it with me" and "I want to do something sexually that is in the standard range for what people do sexually and my partner doesn't want to." I mean, in either case, you have a right to have a fulfilling sex life [as does your partner] but fetish typically means that you get off on something that people don't traditionally get off on [except people who share your fetish]. So like "I want my girlfriend to play with my butt" is a lot less fetish-y than "I want my girlfriend to keep her shoes on when we fuck" The only reason this really matters is because it's helpful to know what is normal to expect in a relationship [if your partner is good/giving/game] and what is something that may be for you to work out in your own way either through fantasy or something else.

Since this question is anonymous, it would have been great if you'd just told us what the thing was. There are lots of people with lots of specific experience here who could give you some actual advice and not just try to guess at what you might be referring to.

So as far as #1, again depending. There are definitely things I'd like my partner to try that for whatever reason aren't things he's that psyched about. I figure we can wait and see and if it's a dealbreaker [for me or him] it's a dealbreaker.
#2, yeah pressuring people for a particular type of sex isn't great, but if it's something specific that might just require adjustment time or the perfect setting [threesome?] that's different from something that would require her doing something that she actively has a taboo against [scat play? blood play?]
#3, I would not marry someone if I felt this way about them, period.

If you're both very dedicated, ask her how she'd like to work this problem out with you. If not getting married is not an option, then the two of you need to solve this problem together. Her just saying "no" seems to not be an option. You getting over it is not an option, so you'll have to find some middle ground. My personal morality would not let me marry someone until I knew how this particular issue was going to be resolved and I'd suggest that for you as well.
posted by jessamyn at 2:07 PM on October 3, 2010 [20 favorites]

This is a toughie. I don't want to tell you to break up, but truthfully I can already see the resentment building within you. The caps on FOUR TIMES say more than the rest of your post.

You need to seriously talk to her about this, and explain that it's something you'd like, need, to explore at least on special sexy occasions. If you can't have that conversation without it causing hurt feelings, then maybe you're not ready to get married anyway.

I don't really have much relationship experience myself (one 5+ year relationship, including engagement that recently ended) but if there's one thing I've learned it's that hidden doubts and desires can't just be ignored away.
posted by yellowbinder at 2:08 PM on October 3, 2010 [2 favorites]

In addition to whatever official marital counseling you might be getting, perhaps you need to get some virtual counseling from Dan Savage, as k8t alluded to.

If she's 30 and can't understand the nature of kinks, she may never be open-minded about them without some serious personal reflection. I like to think I'm GGG but it was a process.

On preview-- I'm not advocating the nuclear option yet, but one of you needs a "come to Jesus" talk before the wedding. Weddings aren't like a finish line, you know, you have to keep the relationship going a heck of a lot longer than the engagement.
posted by parkerjackson at 2:09 PM on October 3, 2010

I don't think knowing more about the kink in question is strictly relevant - it's not in fiancee's comfort zone and that's all that matters. We don't need to get into a that's-normal-no-that's-not discussion.

You have a right to your sexuality, but she also has a right to her comfort zone. Unfortunately I don't have much more to offer than that.. she might soften, in time, but it's still within her personal rights to refuse to engage in activities that upset her without having to justify herself. Is there a way you can indulge your kink side solo?
posted by L'Estrange Fruit at 2:10 PM on October 3, 2010 [16 favorites]

You two are sexually incompatible and if you're this serious about your "fetish," then the only honorable things to do are 1) deal with it (you can't always get what you want, and sex is no exception to that, just because she has a body and could do the thing you want doesn't mean she will or should); 2) end the relationship now and find someone who will do these things.

The fact that you have this much resentment and think it would be "for her own good" to cheat on her means that you're probably incapable of #1 and will need to end the relationship.
posted by elpea at 2:13 PM on October 3, 2010 [9 favorites]

Also, remember that she might have a very strong personal reason for not indulging in your fetish, e.g. you might be into bondage and she might have been restrained in a harmful context and would be triggered by restraints. But that's getting nitpicky, and like I said I don't think she has to justify her refusal - her body is involved so she gets to set her limits.
posted by L'Estrange Fruit at 2:15 PM on October 3, 2010

I can NOT imagine calling this wedding off, NOT an option.

Yet you're willing to contemplate lying and cheating once you're married to get your kink on:

Have you ever made the executive decision to just lie to a person you love and cheat/sort of cheat on them for their own good and/or so the relationship could last? She would be hurt if she ever knew and I would hate that but I would hate the others too.

The two statements above are really not reconcilable, you know. There is no such thing as "sort of cheat". She will not see it that way, that's definite. If you're planning to lie to your spouse once you're married, that's a sham marriage. If your needs aren't going to be met by your wife, are you going to cheat on her? If you cheated on your wife, is she likely to divorce you? If the answer is "possibly yes" to these questions, you need to reevaluate your marriage plans, because it is unlikely to go well.

You can see from your own list that none of your options are workable at this point. The only way to solve this is to talk to your fiancee, because you're not going to be able to do this behind her back. Either she is willing to work with you to help satisfy you, or you're going to be okay with her probably not ever doing the things you want, or you don't get married. Those are the options if you want to have an honest marriage.
posted by oneirodynia at 2:16 PM on October 3, 2010 [3 favorites]

I don't think knowing more about the kink in question is strictly relevant - it's not in fiancee's comfort zone and that's all that matters. We don't need to get into a that's-normal-no-that's-not discussion.

I disagree, we're hearing only one side of a story and I think a little normative information would help us judge for ourselves who is being unreasonable and might be amenable to change.
posted by parkerjackson at 2:16 PM on October 3, 2010

I can NOT imagine calling this wedding off, NOT an option.

Then your choices are living without, or cheating. (Well, unless she miraculously wakes up one morning ready to don the special costume and do those special things, but you and I both know how low the chances of that happening are.)

Lots and lots of people live without. Relationships are always a compromise; sometimes that compromise is sexual. Even if you were on the same page sexually, you'd still have to compromise on other issues. So what you need to decide -- and no one can know this for you -- is whether this is a strong interest of yours, or whether it's something that is fundamental to your sexuality (similar to pretending to be gay when you are straight, or vice versa). If it's "just" a strong interest, you can do what millions of other people do and scratch that itch through erotica, fantasies, and negotiations (eg maybe she won't wear the bunny costume, but she will put on the ears once in a while).

But if this is genuinely something fundamental to your sexuality, you really need to reconsider your refusal to call off the wedding. You don't want to spend the next four decades pretending to be someone you are not, and being unhappy every night. That's no way to live.

to just lie to a person you love and cheat/sort of cheat on them for their own good and/or so the relationship could last?

Be honest with yourself here. You aren't going to cheat on her for her own good -- it'll be for your happiness, not hers. She wants to be with the faithful version of you, not a cheating version. That's a relationship under false pretenses, and won't make her happy when she finds out.

Having just said that, however, there are gradations in cheating as in everything -- would she be more ok with you finding virtual/online ways of scratching this fetish itch, rather than getting your rocks off with another person in real life?

Have you ever tried to push/help someone through a strong refusal for your own selfish but honestly deserved needs?

Sure. Sometimes it works out well, sometimes not. It's ok to tell her that not being able to do this thing (whatever it is) is a dealbreaker for you is fine -- that's just honest communication. Whining and pushing and guilt-tripping until someone is so worn down that they'll give in rather than listen to one more minute is really crappy, though. That's no way to build love and trust. Consent matters; she needs to be saying "yes" in a real way, not a coerced way.
posted by Forktine at 2:18 PM on October 3, 2010 [10 favorites]

Break up. You're sexually incompatible. She's not interested, you're already thinking cheating is an option and the resentment is building. You think this is actually going to go away or get better? Unless she agrees to an open relationship, this one is done. You could try counseling but that won't magic away your desires, sadly. And yeah, for your next relationship, the time to discuss it is before you get engaged.
posted by Jubey at 2:18 PM on October 3, 2010 [5 favorites]

Also, you may find some value in reading through the forums at places like fetlife -- there are many, many people out there grappling with this exact issue, and there is value in reading how they have tried dealing with it. It's good to know you aren't alone, and also that there are no easy answers.
posted by Forktine at 2:22 PM on October 3, 2010 [1 favorite]

There's too many variables here, such as the nature of the kink, the intensity of your desire/need for it, and the intensity of her reaction to it.

It could be a simple thing for you which you have a small desire for that you can reasonably go without ("Anal would be nice, but I don't need it").

It could be a colossally out-of-the-mainstream thing, but you can't live without it ("Car crashes and boa constrictors are the only way I can get off. Especially if the snakes are driving -- oh baby.").

Or it could be something that she doesn't necessarily despise you for wanting, but is just a simple no-go for her ("Honey, I love you, but I'm not going to have sex with another woman while you watch. Period. It's just not my cup of tea. But I don't mind seeing it in mainstream porn. Knock yourself out.").
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 2:23 PM on October 3, 2010

You seem to have talked yourself out of any solution.

You could never do it with her, but you'll resent her.
You could force her to do it with you, but she'll resent you.
You can sneak around on her (the one you are "very in love" with) and hope you'll never get caught.
You could break up with her. (When you talk about how this is not an option, you only mention love a little bit, then all the investment you've made. You don't want to give up your investment, it seems.)

Maybe talk to her again, but really let her know how important this is to you. How it is deal breaker important. Would she be willing to try it then? Maybe she could say, I'll do it twice a year, but no more than that. If she's not willing to compromise, are you really compatible?
posted by Monday at 2:26 PM on October 3, 2010 [6 favorites]

It's possible to sublimate your desire for [kink], but your ability to do that depends on your level of determination AND on your level of want/need for said kink. If it's something you HAVE TO DO then trying to sublimate it will just lead to acting out (cheating, viewing porn, etc). I handled the situation by engaging in the kink with others. My partner wasn't pleased, but accepted that this was a part of me and that I was still sexually interested in them. We did vanilla stuff together and I went elsewhere for "other activities".

I tried to encourage my partner to try [kink], but they weren't having any of it. It wasn't something that they merely disliked, it was something that disgusted them. I respected that boundary when I realised how they felt about it. To do anything else would have been a horrendous way to behave. No means no. Now, I never mention [kink] to partner because of the way they feel about it. If your fiancée isn't up for it, it doesn't matter why. All that matters is that she doesn't want to do it. Don't try to explain it away, because that's disrespectful to her feelings. Other people may or may not do it, but that is irrelevant. She doesn't want to engage in it, and that is all that matters. Pressuring people into doing things they don't want to do is a fast ticket to Resentmentville.

I never lied about seeing other people. I was always up front about it happening. As I said, my partner wasn't over the moon about it, but I think they realised that I was going to do it, and they could either join in or not. If they didn't join in, I was going elsewhere for it. The reasoning went something along the lines of "I don't get to control your body, you don't get to control mine". (This is something we both agreed on.) I warned my partner that I was going to be engaging in it, and left the ball in their court. They decided to continue the relationship.

If this is something you really want to do, then you need to do it, if only because sublimating it will make you unhappy. Unless you decide for and by yourself that you're not going to engage in it, you need to make it explicitly clear to your partner that it is going to happen, with someone else if not her. You have a right to engage in this activity as much as she has a right to not engage in it. You also need to be telling her this before you get married, so both of you can go into the relationship with your eyes open in this regard.

You owe your partner full and total honesty. Sometimes you can't get what you want from another person, and just have to accept that. Being in a relationship doesn't make Partner A perfect and it doesn't give Partner A the right to demand that Partner B be perfect. Occasionally, you have to ask yourself the question "am I getting the majority of my needs met by this person?" and accept their faults as part of the cost of being in a relationship with them.

My relationship has a somewhat happy ending. I'd like to engage in [kink] with my partner, and my partner would like that I didn't engage in it at all. But life isn't like that, and we have a working compromise. It's not ideal but few things ever are.
posted by Solomon at 2:28 PM on October 3, 2010 [13 favorites]

And to comment yet again like Jessamyn and others have said, it might be really helpful to know at least the general direction of the fetish/kink involved. Costumes? Three- or more-somes? Anal, catching or pitching? Tie me up, tie you down? People's feelings about these things don't exist in a vacuum, and there will be very different ways to negotiate and discuss each of them because of where they fit within the culture.

You can email a moderator or any commenter here that you trust (or, for that matter, you can set up a sock puppet account) in order to share that information anonymously.
posted by Forktine at 2:31 PM on October 3, 2010 [3 favorites]

I think it's really up to you to determine how central this kink is to your identity. Some people can give up/ change sexual practices based on what's available with the person they want to be with. Some people feel like certain sexual needs are more than just extraneous desires but really define something innate about them.

Your most sociall acceptable options are to become the kind of person who doesn't really want this kind of sex that much after all, or break up. And breaking up really is an option, even if you find it a terrible one, if you feel this need is that important - does she understand how much it means to you? And has she tried to explain why she won't try it?

It would be her choice to become the kind of person who wouldn't mind indulging your fantasy every now and then. Recognize that she would probably never really enjoy it, even if she did it for you, so the problem wouldn't be solved just by her agreeing to try it out. There is a difference in your interests that you need to take into account.

Having a third person "take care of it for you" is a difficult answer, since it involves a whole other party in the relationship and is bound to cause problems at some level, at some point. I would not expect that to just solve things either. Depending what you're interested in, perhaps you could satisfy yourself alone to some extent, but more people is always more complicated, even when everything's out in the open, and all the more so when it's not.
posted by mdn at 2:32 PM on October 3, 2010

I know three men who married women who would not accept their "kink." All three are more than 10 years into their marriage. All three spouses have no known psychological or physical barriers to the act; the reason is "it's gross." All three men have never gotten their spouse to do it. All three have spent significant time and resources getting it outside their marriage, as cheating (not as an open agreement). Oh, and their "kink" -- a blowjob.

Make of this what you will.
posted by Houstonian at 2:37 PM on October 3, 2010 [12 favorites]

I think you are approaching this in the wrong way, from a fundamentally flawed assumption about the nature of marriage.

I am married. I like sex. Before my husband and I got married, we had various (hilarious to me, now) conversations about OH MY GOD WERE WE SUFFICIENTLY SEXUALLY COMPATIBLE.

That's not necessarily the bulk of what marriage is about. Marriage is about: are you able to withstand the daily grind with this person? Do you like them? Are they funny to you? Do they fight fair, or do they get mean? When one of you has stomach flu in a hotel room, can you deal with it? Are you a good team? Do you find them interesting? Are you willing to put in the work to keep your relationship evolving after the hormonal fires burn off?

I am not saying that sex isn't a key part of (many) marriages. Most people like sex, and it's a fun activity you can do together, etc. But I will say that it's not so much what you do or don't do, it's how well the two of you are able to navigate conflict over what you do or don't do. And this is true about everything in marriage. Not just sex. I know the sex part seems hugely important to you right now. But there will come a time when you realize that you and your then-wife have seriously divergent opinions over where to put the couch in your new apartment. And unless you can develop skills to deal with this kind of stuff, it'll happen over and over - buttsecks, kids, money, whose turn it is to unload the dishwasher, blah blah blah. Everything will seem like a zero-sum game someone has to win and someone has to lose.


Your fiancee being unwilling to take it up the butt (f'rinstance) is not the problem. The problem is that the two of you seem unable or unwilling to do the HARD AS SHIT work of struggling through talking about it and coming to an agreement you can both live with.

Even if you could magically fix this one issue - even if she said "Yes! Anal 4-eva!" or if she agreed that you could go outside the marriage for this purpose, or if you made yourself feel okay about cheating but not telling her about it - there will be other problems, just as thorny. About sex, and not about sex.

And that's why I think you should take a breather and try to resolve this before getting married.
posted by thehmsbeagle at 2:37 PM on October 3, 2010 [82 favorites]

At your ages, and without knowing any details or even general direction this is heading, I'll chime in with a heartfelt, old man's "Don't get married unless you work this out."

No, sex is not the be-all and end-all of marriage, if you look at it over the long haul. But it IS when you're thirty and, even more than money, it's the quickest, most acrimonious road to Splitsville I've seen. Talk about this and determine a mutually satisfactory way to move forward, or call the whole thing off. You'll be miserable - eventually - if you don't.
posted by OneMonkeysUncle at 2:47 PM on October 3, 2010 [3 favorites]

Yeah, you very much need to be sure how important these fetishes are to you.. or rather, explain how important they are to us before you can get decent advice. I mean, if your fetish is watching your partner get fucked by another man, that is something very different than you wish she would talk dirty more. It also depends how serious they are -- how important is to get X for you? What would your life be like if you couldn't have X? Marriage is inevitably about compromise and giving up certain things, whether that's the freedom to leave your dirty laundry on the floor or not fuck other people, most partnerships involve give and take of some kind. You need to explain why you cannot give on this issue.
posted by modernnomad at 2:49 PM on October 3, 2010

If you cheat you will get caught.

That's not fate. MAYBE you'll get away with it, but it's doubtful. So if you're considering cheating, at least go into the situation acknowledging the risk that you will likely be caught at some point. What are you going to do when that happens? How will your wife react when she finds out? How much will she be hurt when she finds out? Is it worth cheating, knowing how much she'll be hurt?

Why do I say you'll get caught? Well, first of all, cheaters are like people who think they can get away with The Perfect Murder. And we've all watched enough mysteries to know what happens to them in the end. It's amazing how many people wind up believing they can keeps stuff hidden. Think of all the politicians and actors who've been caught. Many of them were smart people. I bet they were SURE they'd get away with it.

Here's the problem: your wife knows you REALLY well. Sounds like she knows you really well already. How well will she know you in five years? Shit! I have trouble convincing my wife that I like something she cooked that I don't like. I can't imagine keeping up a lie that I'm not cheating on her.

All sounds very vague. How would she ACTUALLY find out? I'm not sure, exactly, but cheating involves at least two people. Maybe you'll never tell anyone. But what about the other party? Even if she swears she'll never tell anyone -- even if she's a hooker or something -- she will probably tell her best friend. I have best friends that I tell stuff that I supposedly don't tell anyone. Before I tell them, I make THEM swear not tell anyone. But -- come on -- they probably do tell at least one person. And, you know, six degrees of separation... at the end of that six degrees is your wife.

Cheating also tends to involve email, phone conversations and 3rd parties who see you and blab. There are all sorts of dangers. Do you ever talk in your sleep? Do you ever get drunk and say stuff you shouldn't? (Does the person you're cheating with ever do either of those things?) Do you ever feel so guilty that you confess stuff you swore you'd take to your grave? Do you ever get into fights and say hurtful things that you later regret?

So let's say you cheat just once during your whole marriage. Maybe, even given everything I've outlined above, the chances are slim that you'll get caught. But you're NOT going to do it just once. Sexual satisfaction doesn't work that way. For some reason, people always think it will: "if I can just scratch that itch ONCE..." Except after that once, once the orgasm has worn off, you are in the same place you were before.

A heterosexual man is not going to be satisfied as long as he gets to sleep with a woman once in his life. He's going to want to do it again and again.

If you have a kink, it works the same way. But I don't have to tell you that. You've had four experiences which, of course, didn't quench your thirst. You'll always be thirsty. So cheating once won't help.

So think about all the risks I've mentioned above multiplied by 40. I am being very conservative here. I am assuming you cheat just once a year in a forty-year-long marriage. What are the changes that in each of those 40 times, your wife won't find out? There's a slim chance of drawing a six of clubs if you pick just one card from a deck. But what if you pick 40 cards? What's the chance that the six of clubs will never come up?

Even if you disagree with me that your wife is all that likely to find out, surely there's SOME chance she will. How much? 5%? 10%? 20%? At what point does the risk become too great? If you think the risk is 0%, that means you think you have super powers.

In your shoes, knowing I'd get caught (or at least that it's a definite possibility, even if it doesn't happen for five or ten years), I'd consider these my choices:

1. End the relationship.

2. Stay in the relationship knowing that I will never get to experience the kink.

3. Work on it with my partner.

If you go with #3, I recommend against "Will you please do X for me?" You already know how she feels about it. So why not express it as a problem you need to solve together as a couple? "Honey, I love you, and I'm committed to being with you. I know you're not comfortable with X. I respect that. My problem is that without X, I feel frustrated, and that frustration tends to build up. Because I love you, I don't want to take my frustration out on you, and I don't ever want to cheat on you. Maybe we can problem-solve together..."

If she's open to this but the two of you can't figure out a solution, a marriage counselor or sex counselor might be able to help.
posted by grumblebee at 2:53 PM on October 3, 2010 [7 favorites]

Marriage is a major decision, involving the law, public records, affinity bonds between multiple families, and years and years of human fallibilities, highs and lows. Either you can marry this woman, or you can have your fetish.

You can broach with her the possibility of going to a professional for this. First, I think you need to talk to yourself, very honestly, before you talk to her, and say: is this the hill I am going to die on? What is the level of importance, to me, of having this fetish fulfilled? You seem to put it on the same level as if, say, you really wanted to move across the country for a life-changing opportunity and she was equally adamant about not doing it. You wouldn't be a bad person for choosing one over the other, but whichever it is, you need to make peace with it, so that you aren't carrying around a load of shame and/or resentment. If it's the right choice, that will come about naturally.
posted by Countess Elena at 3:11 PM on October 3, 2010 [1 favorite]

If you've only done this practice 4 times in your life, how do you reckon that it's something you absolutely have to do with your fiance? I'm not trying to be jerky about the question, but it would seem that you've lived without it pretty well, so why the concern now?

If it's all that important for your sexual well-being, I'm a bit confused as to why you haven't pursued relationships with someone was into the same thing.

Knowing would help, I must admit. When I got married, my husband wasn't all that into oral, but practice makes perfect. His reluctance wasn't so much revulsion as worries about "doing it right". Maybe the same with your partner?
posted by Ideefixe at 3:21 PM on October 3, 2010 [2 favorites]

Have you ever tried to push/help someone through a strong refusal for your own selfish but honestly deserved needs?

I don't understand what you mean by "honestly deserved needs." In my mind, a fetish is a desire, not a need. You want it, however you don't "deserve" it. Your thought process about this does not seem healthy. Many criminals use the same logic to justify their behavior. I'm not saying you are a criminal, but I think your logic is distorted.

It also seems like you are trying to justify your fetish – "…would be personally unpleasant or creepy for her except for her mental opposition."

Don't most "creepy" and "unpleasant" things stem from a person's mental opposition to them? For whatever reason, she finds your fetish gross. I imagine that hearing that can feel hurtful. On her side, it's probably hurtful to know that you are disappointed with her because she won't perform a specific sexual task.

If I was in your fiancé's place and I knew how you honestly felt, I don't think I would remain in the relationship. I think you either need to accept that you won't get to fulfill your fetish or else leave the relationship. Thinking about cheating even before the marriage is a terrible sign that this is going to end in disaster.
posted by parakeetdog at 3:23 PM on October 3, 2010 [3 favorites]

I don't think knowing more about the kink in question is strictly relevant - it's not in fiancee's comfort zone and that's all that matters. We don't need to get into a that's-normal-no-that's-not discussion.

I disagree, we're hearing only one side of a story and I think a little normative information would help us judge for ourselves who is being unreasonable and might be amenable to change.

I really have to disagree with you on this. Our collective opinion on the "reasonableness" of the fetish is completely irrelevant. It's his fiancee who will be intimately, nakedly involved with it and her opinion is the only relevant one in that situation.
Going back to my bondage metaphor, because it's a pretty easy one to show from both sides: bondage is a fun and sexy kink that a lot of people enjoy, find freeing and stimulating and awesome. If anyone tried to tie so much as one of my hands to the bed I.WOULD.LOSE.IT. And I mean screaming, shaking, disassociation and probably non-functionality for at least 24 hours. It matters less than one whit that lots of people like it and find it harmless. It matters quite a lot to myself and thus there is no way in hell I would or could ever try it, despite being quite happy to shower blessings upon every other practitioner in the world who isn't looking to practice it with ME.
posted by L'Estrange Fruit at 3:37 PM on October 3, 2010 [14 favorites]

The sad part to me is that you are asking US instead of being able to work this out with her within a framework where both your needs are valued. I know this is a high-stakes, scary conversation, but I think you need to find a way to have it together, or even with a counselor. (I'm assuming she did not say "no not ever, and I'd prefer if you went and figured out what to do about your needs with the Internet, because I hate talking about it. Just let me know what you decide.")
posted by salvia at 3:40 PM on October 3, 2010

Parakeetdog, though I don't necessarily disagree with your overall point, it's important to keep in mind that there are many different levels of fetishism. There's I-like-this-every-now-and-then-to-spice-things-up-a-little on one end of spectrum, and there's I-literally-can't-get-aroused-or-climax-without-it on the other. The former isn't much of a need, but the latter would qualify for most people. Think, for instance, of someone who is vegetarian. Their diet is not a physical need like air or water, but it's also not really something you would consider negotiable.
posted by dephlogisticated at 3:56 PM on October 3, 2010 [2 favorites]

I agree with L'Estrange Fruit. The kink is irrelevant even if it is "only" a blowjob. It's her body. If she isn't comfortable doing it, no one has a right to pressure her into it. End of story.

OP, your fiancee does not owe you anything sexually. If you feel like you must cheat on her, don't get married.
posted by Lobster Garden at 3:59 PM on October 3, 2010 [14 favorites]

Reading this, I suspect the fetish is more important to you than she is. Really. If you're already this frustrated after all these years and you're not married yet, it's not going to get better. Unless she will agree to you getting your needs met elsewhere (and I'm guessing from that post it's a no), you can't marry her because you are only going to get more pissed off that she won't put out in the way that you like it. You're already steamed, how do you think you're gonna feel 20 years into a marriage with no kinky sex?

Don't cheat. It's real easy to get caught at that. Don't go into marrying the woman and planning to cheat on her to get your kink done. If that's what you'd have to do, then don't marry her.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:00 PM on October 3, 2010 [7 favorites]

Have you ever tried to push/help someone through a strong refusal for your own selfish but honestly deserved needs?

If you took this one sentence out of the context of the question, everyone would call this sexual assault. Think about that.

Now I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you don't actually mean to emotionally or physically force your partner. But really, considering the question, it feels like a stretch to me. You do deserve to have your needs met, and only you can evaluate whether your fetish is a true need (hint: probably not, if you've only had it four times in x years and you're still breathing). You do not automatically deserve to have it met by this particular person.
posted by desjardins at 4:14 PM on October 3, 2010 [19 favorites]

This may or may not be helpful, especially if it seems to you like your kink is something that simply MUST happen, and especially because it doesn't have a particularly happy ending, but: I've been in a relationship for >10 years. There was a thing that I found wildly exciting, but my partner didn't seem too interested by it. They never flat out refused, but always made excuses in a way that said the same thing: I find this thing a bit odd and a bit distasteful. Eventually I stopped bringing the subject up, knowing it was going to lead to disinterest on their part and guilt on my part, and contented myself with private fantasies about it, and now, after all this time, it's not even something I'm particularly interested in, mainly, I think, because of the repeated rejection and associated feelings of shame.

Short answers to your questions:
1. Yes, we're still together, we don't do 'the thing', and I no longer want to, which may or may not involve slight bitterness on my part, I'm not sure.
2. No, I respected the other party's wishes and didn't press the point.
3. You're saying that the 'thing' is more important than the other person, and you phrase question 3 in a surprisingly self-absorbed way with odd priorities. No, I've never had to cheat or lie, because the other person is an actual person with lots of other qualities and features and when all things are considered, they were/are more interesting and more important to me than a way of occasionally orgasming a few seconds quicker.
posted by The Discredited Ape at 4:21 PM on October 3, 2010 [3 favorites]

I have this feeling that you are looking for a specific answer from us, given the constraints that you've outlined within your question ("canNOT imagine calling the wedding off!" AND "MUST have this activity in my life" AND "she will NEVER do it.")

You want us to tell you that it would be okay to cheat, given these constraints.

It is not okay.

If you cared more about your partner's needs than your own needs, you'd hear her when she says "No means no" and let it go.

If you cared about your partner AND yourself, you'd tell her, "If I can't get this need satisfied in a relationship, I will be resentful and we will have an emotionally tragic marriage. Let's break up if we can't come to a compromise that we are both entirely happy with." And you would brave the short-term and intense pain of this break up to make sure that SHE and YOU had a chance to find a different partner who wouldn't lie to them, cheat on them, or feel resentful towards them.

The alternative is to get married, have your lives become more emotionally/legally/financially entwined, possibly have kids, wait until everything gets MUCH worse, then get divorced down the road with a lot more devastating effects on everyone involved.

Sorry, but you need to bite the bullet, be honest with her, and quit spending your energy trying to figure out how to justify cheating.
posted by jeanmari at 4:26 PM on October 3, 2010 [23 favorites]

You have no right to have a particular person do something to you sexually. You do have the right to find someone who does.
posted by Ironmouth at 4:26 PM on October 3, 2010 [24 favorites]

I don't think knowing more about the kink in question is strictly relevant - it's not in fiancee's comfort zone and that's all that matters.

I can see how it might be relevant to answering the question "Have you ever tried to push/help someone through a strong refusal for your own selfish but honestly deserved needs?"

I mean, I've had partners with whom I've had a glass or two of wine, talked things through, I've listened to and tried to address their concerns, and asked them to just try things out for me, and I've made sure to do things in return to show how much I appreciate their efforts and open-mindedness.

This advice might work if you want your partner to have sex while wearing a cute outfit, or she's reluctant to try oral sex, or something that's not too far from her current comfort area.

On the other hand, if your fetish is that you want to spit in her face and whip her until she cries, my advice probably wouldn't work, as that might be a long way beyond what she's comfortable with.
posted by Mike1024 at 4:31 PM on October 3, 2010 [1 favorite]

You can love somebody, even be in love with them, and still not be a good fit for marriage. It's a corollary to crushes.
posted by rhizome at 4:39 PM on October 3, 2010 [1 favorite]

For the record, and as kindly as I can express it, fetishes are no more controllable than attraction to a given gender. Sometimes they're more transient, but by no means always. And not being able to fulfil your fetish is like living in the closet: certainly doable, but does it make life at all enjoyable?

There are two ways in which you can be perfectly happy together: she either learns to enjoy your fetish, whatever it is, or she accepts that you will do it with someone else. Both options rely on her realising how important it is to you and wanting to make you happy. Both require a lot of time, a lot of understanding, and nothing that could be construed as pressure.

The last point is very, very important: no pressure. Don't hide that you still have that fetish, but don't mention it often at all. Once every few months is plenty. It's only needed at all so that she doesn't think you got over it. She certainly won't forget it. Never mention it in a moment of anger, only when you've had a few happy days together. Always mention it as something that would make you very happy when it happens, if it happens. When you do, explain everything it means to you. Don't hold anything back. Talk a lot and passionately about it. Make it fascinating in whatever way it is to you. AND: make sure no accusation or reproach comes into it; she certainly doesn't want to harm you or keep you down, not if she's in love. But, fetishes aren't something that can be understood through reason and logic, only through sym/empathy. And that only happens if your relationship is otherwise happy and trusting, and will never otherwise.

Either way, it will take months. Probably a few years. Maybe it will never happen. Depends on who she is and how life unfolds. For what it's worth, people seem to become more sexually tolerant as they age, but that's not much good to you, I fear.

If you don't see either option happening, well, you will have to either redirect the fetish, suck it up, or cheat. If you are seriously considering the last option, in my experience, you're doomed. You may make great friends, you may make fine occasional lovers, but you'd be a very unhappy couple, mistrusting and resentful. Spare both of you years of pain and break up now. Sucking it up may work, if you love her enough otherwise. I'd rather a fabulous friend than an indifferent lover, but I'm misanthropic. Maybe your best bet is to redirect it to another (do you have lesser fetishes? Does she?), or get videos or material from somewhere and go at it alone, if appropriate.

And, yes, I have been on the other side of these paths several times, as I am pretty vanilla myself. Sometimes I was converted for a time through the sheer enthusiasm of my partners, more often I have let them fulfil the fetish elsewhere. All instances highly correlates with the relationship's happiness and trust. And no one ever cheated on me, for which I am infinitely grateful.
posted by Spanner Nic at 4:40 PM on October 3, 2010 [5 favorites]

I gotta be honest, I don't get why 10 years later this is now a thing for you. But I suspect you know at some level that calling off the wedding is the only decent (fair to both of you) resolution for this. Calling off a wedding means some $ will be lost, but divorce isn't cheap either.
posted by mandymanwasregistered at 4:48 PM on October 3, 2010 [1 favorite]

Where is Dan Savage? If he were here, he might say: "Please don't get married".
posted by ovvl at 5:22 PM on October 3, 2010 [2 favorites]

It may be helpful to buy a copy of the book, When Someone You Love is Kinky by Dossie Easton and Catherine A. Liszt. Read it, and also ask your fiancee to read it. Talk about your thoughts and feelings about the issues raised in the book.

Then you could both talk about the options you have:

a) Your fiancee and yourself don't act on your fetish (and outline the consequences: you may feel resentful, you may cheat);

b) Your fiancee negotiates with you about getting your fetish elsewhere with her knowledge and consent (for example, through looking at or watching porn; or online chats; or a sexworker; or a professional dominatrix; or an open relationship with pre-negotiated rules.)

Talk about emotions, safe sex, and ways in which you (as a couple) could make this work for both of you.

If you want to talk about an open relationship, the book The Ethical Slut: Guide to Infinite Sexual Possibilities by Dossie Easton and Catherine A. Liszt may be very helpful to both of you.

Open relationships aren't no-holds-barred anything-goes relationships: there are usually rules, whether that's "Only while I am out of town on a business trip", or "Only looking, no touching," or "Never stay the night at her place," or "Only once a month", or "Only with me in the room", or whatever it is that both of you agree to to ensure that you feel emotionally safe and secure in your relationship.

c) You break up.

Seeing a couples counsellor may help you work through this together, and come to a mutually agreeable solution.

But please, don't marry her planning to cheat on her. You both deserve better than that.
posted by Hot buttered sockpuppets at 5:24 PM on October 3, 2010 [5 favorites]

Also, I think it might be helpful for both of you to get involved with your local kink community.

If she can have non-threatening conversations about your kink over coffee with other people who have done the kink... maybe she might feel more comfortable about experimenting with the kink, or about you doing it with other people.

But this only works if you approach going to a munch or talking to other kinky people in an absolutely-o-pressure, lets-learn-more way.
posted by Hot buttered sockpuppets at 5:27 PM on October 3, 2010 [1 favorite]

This will be a sticking point as time goes on. You will probably resent her and that resentment will carry over into other areas. You guys need to find some sort of compromise, be it you watching pornos of this fetish while she's in the room, or you buying a sex doll. But you guys really need to talk about this and work how to handle this going forward. Because it's not going to go away.

Oh yeah, staring off a marriage with the idea of cheating is not a good beginning. You guys should probably talk about that.

It's anal sex, isn't it?
posted by nomadicink at 5:52 PM on October 3, 2010

seconding desjardins, in a big way
posted by lakersfan1222 at 5:55 PM on October 3, 2010

I think you should show your fiancé your exact question posted, that may:

- let her know how seriously this is affecting you
- let her see all the levels on which you are thinking of how to get around it

I think you may be surprised by how quickly this may resolve your problem. The most obvious result is that she may end your relationship - I know that true love or not, if the man i was about to marry was already considering cheating on me, I would flee. She may, to your surprise, agree to let you get this kink out of your system elsewhere rather than lose you. Either way, you'll get a result. Fast.

Make sure it's exactly the same question though - she deserves your honesty, NOW.
posted by shazzam! at 6:01 PM on October 3, 2010 [3 favorites]

Mod note: From the OP:
Thanks everyone who is answering.

For people who really have to know, I am interested in being lightly dominated, nothing extreme.

I do know my options here and I tried to list them,

Number 1, Suck it up and go without forever.
Number 2, Pressure her.
Number 3, Cheat on her.
Number 4, Break up.
Number 5, Come to an arrangement with her.

What I was trying to say is, please assume Number 4 and 5 are off the table, and please tell me about times you tried Number 1, 2, 3 or had them tried on you. Did it work out better or worse than you expected, did you come to a compromise that works for both of you, etc.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:02 PM on October 3, 2010

What I was trying to say is, please assume Number 4 and 5 are off the table

And what many of us are trying to say, explicitly and implicitly, is that if you think #4 and #5 are off the table and you try #3—because #1 and #2 won't lead to anything but misery—then #4 will happen anyways, only be much shittier when it does happened because you stupidly decided to get married without resolving this in a real, adult way.

Anyways, good luck.
posted by dubitable at 6:12 PM on October 3, 2010 [37 favorites]

I think you need to make it completely clear to your fiancee that you don't intend to live your entire life without this need met, and take it from there. Is she willing to allow you an outside tryst once every 5 years? Is she willing to bring someone else into your bedroom? Is she willing to do it herself every 3 years? I don't know. But let her know that this is something that may call off the engagement, if you're that serious about it.

You're not married yet. There are no children in the picture. I know you love her, but you can love other people, too. And I really think you should drop the idea of cheating - you're not trapped quite yet. But you should let her know that this is something important enough for you to consider ending the relationship, if it is. Unless she promised you this act and now changed her mind, after the engagement, I'm not sure why you feel cheated. If she did, that's a bigger problem.
posted by namesarehard at 6:23 PM on October 3, 2010 [4 favorites]

It sounds like you want anecdotes, not advice. Here's one. In this scenario, I'm in the place of your fiancee, but a little younger. My boyfriend was sure he "deserved" what he wanted, too. He tried #2, plus some pointless #3. Because I was young, stupid, and as scared of #4 as you are now, I gave in. That was a horrible decision for me, lead eventually to #4 happening anyway, and it was quite literally years before I was able to form healthy relationships. Please don't put your fiancee through any of that. If you in fact love her, I can't believe you'd take "break up" off the table before you'd take "pressure her" off the table.
posted by donnagirl at 6:37 PM on October 3, 2010 [20 favorites]

Number 4 is going to be the inevitable outcome if you even try to implement 1, 2, and 3.

BDSM, domination, and bondage can be huge triggers for some people. Triggers they may not even know about until the situation presents itself. If she has made it clear she will not participate then either this is a trigger issue for her or she is simply not wired for it.

If this is a huge necessary need - not a want, but a need - for you, then the two of you are not compatible. Regardless of how much you love each other. Sometimes love simply is not enough.

If you truly love her then you will not push or force her to participate in something she is not able or interested in. Bottom line.
posted by tar0tgr1 at 6:39 PM on October 3, 2010 [4 favorites]

>>but in case you want to know this not something that would be personally unpleasant or creepy for her except for her mental opposition

>I am interested in being lightly dominated, nothing extreme.

If she's not into it, that is going to be unpleasant and maybe creepy. I mean, if you were dating my partner, this would be a total no-go for her. It's not a discomfort with kink (she's happy to be tied up and made to say "ow!"), but she's 110%, completely, totally not into playing the dominant role with a man. A lot of people aren't, just like a lot of people aren't into playing submissive or other roles, either. It doesn't have to be childhood trauma or anything like that -- it just isn't the way they are wired.

Having said that, anecdotally I can say that most of the women I have dated would never have identified in any way as kinky before we met. By introducing the dirty stuff slowly and in really rewarding and positive ways, all of them moved a long way into kinkyville. However, even though it was never talked about directly when we were first flirting, there was some level of chemistry suggesting that they'd be into it that I was picking up on.

So if she has some tiny, buried deep and hidden level of openness to your kink, my experience says that with time and patience things will work out really well. That doesn't mean going from 0 to 60 in one evening -- it means going at the other person's speed, no matter how slow that is. Done right, they will be begging for more, rather than you begging them to please try something.

But if that tiny, hidden spark isn't there, I don't think there's any way to get her there in a happy and consensual way.
posted by Forktine at 7:06 PM on October 3, 2010 [3 favorites]

"Honey, I love you, and I'm committed to being with you. I know you're not comfortable with X. I respect that. My problem is that without X, I feel frustrated, and that frustration tends to build up. Because I love you, I don't want to take my frustration out on you, and I don't ever want to cheat on you. Maybe we can problem-solve together..."

Agree with grumblebee here, and I'll add...

There are sexual acts that can feel degrading to a person even if she hasn't been through some kind of trauma. I know I initially felt that way about oral, for example, and part of it just had to do with the stance. It took me a while to get past that.

Definitely don't cheat, and don't go into the marriage already with a backlog of resentment (i.e., if you go ahead with this, you need to be prepared for your fetish(es) never to be accommodated).

If you can truly accept these two things to start with--I'll give this bit of advice toward giving you the best chance of "converting" your wife. Be the most generous lover you can possibly be. Be completely attentive to her wants. Make her know how sexy she is to you. You might just be able to drive her crazy enough to consider going along with your fetish, but you're more likely to do this by giving rather than asking.
posted by torticat at 7:12 PM on October 3, 2010

Number 1, Suck it up and go without forever.

Tried that. In time there refusal to do That One Special Thing caused resentment and dissatisfaction and the relationship ended.

Number 2, Pressure her.

That's a non starter, period. SERIOUSLY. If someone doesn't want to do something, it's not sexy or fun or even interesting to pressure them.

Talk to them, ask them, sure, but pressure? No, it's a total non starter or should be.

Number 3, Cheat on her.

Why start a marriage if you're already thinking of cheating on someone? You may love her, but it doesn't appear as though she can completely satisfy you. From what you're written here, that fact will continue to eat away at you and the relationship. That's a big issue that ya'll need to resolve before getting married.

I have no idea how you're talking to her, but the fact that you're inquiring about pressuring her makes me uneasy, as if you're not really listening to her and/or her concerns and are simply pushing for what you want. I hope I'm wrong there. Either way, you two need to talk and both you need to listen, like be quiet and listen, as why the other feels the way they do.
posted by nomadicink at 7:14 PM on October 3, 2010 [4 favorites]

You are attempting to have your cake and eat it too.

You cannot do this.

You may not want to admit it, but you cannot do this.

Therefore, you need to reconstruct your listed possibilities.
posted by aramaic at 7:52 PM on October 3, 2010 [6 favorites]

OK, you've drawn hard&fast possible paths. Here's where they will lead:

A relationship that may make it to marriage, but WILL end in divorce if it does go that far, leaving you feeling unhappy, unfulfilled, and resentful of the partner you love. Along the way, she will add her resentment, and possibly outrage if she discovers she is being cheated on (you may even confess it to her, or "accidentally" allow her to discover it). Oh, and you will both suffer financially from the divorce, to a considerable degree, whether or not she even gets alimony. If children result from this marriage...

Sounds like fun, right? Well worth the trouble of denying yourself your strong sexual desires in life, certainly.

Now, an interesting question: Why did you choose to affiance yourself to someone who you knew would limit your access to your sexual fetish? It's not a coincidence. It didn't "just happen".
posted by IAmBroom at 7:52 PM on October 3, 2010 [1 favorite]

OP, I'm a woman who recently ended a relationship, coming from the flipside of your situation (I also wanted to be lightly dominated - nothing extreme - and my serious long-term boyfriend could not feel at ease with the idea).

Number 1: Yup, I stuck it out for 3.5 years after knowing straight from the get-go that he would never be interested. We had many other great compatibilities, and at the time, I wasn't so certain this was important to me. Towards the end, as communication breakdowns in our relationship became evident, this issue became increasingly fretful (for me, not him). The unhappier I was with my partner over fundamental uncertainties (attitudes towards family, that kind of stuff), the more important this bedroom kink became.

... just watch how you [together, with your partner] deal with this issue. Deal with it such that you aren't feeling limited by being with your partner... because IME, it will haunt future arguments, and will always add weight to the "should we break up" plan B.

Number 2: Anytime I have tried this, I have failed emotionally before going any further. It's really uncomfortable to relax and enjoy yourself when you can see your partner is genuinely unhappy. You'll feel like a rotten scab for a few weeks and wait for uncool feelings to heal over. Sex is too personal to do it without experiencing a *connection* to the person you're doing it with. If it makes her as unhappy as you say, then coming to this arrangement will only make you keenly aware of what she means by unhappy.

Number 3: I remember the desperation you're talking about - really wondering what you will do if you, for whatever reason, can't live without a genuine taste of this fetish.

I do agree that if this fetish is strong enough to make you consider cheating before marriage, then you need to reconsider this issue with your partner. Try to re-negotiate for a better deal. Address your sexual incompatibility. Your respective sexual flares just are; they're not personal towards each other, and they existed long before you met. So it is worth ensuring that you are both finding what you need in each other. Otherwise, you will face the challenges of resentment, a wandering eye, unhappiness, etc. in addition to the "regular" challenges of marriage.

With my data point, do keep in mind: my relationship faced deep communication problems and a tense financial situation. If the sex had been good, honestly, maybe we would have swung together long enough to get a break and recover. But it didn't work out that way.

If your relationship is truly good, then you should be able to negotiate. What does she think is light bondage? Is she comfortable with handcuffs? Blindfolds? Dialogue? What would the finishing positions look like? Do understand that she hasn't been fantasizing about this like you have, and because she's not inclined she'll probably be more familiar with exaggerations of your kink. Is once a year enough? Birthdays only? What would you be willing to do to reciprocate the gesture?

It may also, very well be, as with my ex-partner, a genuine no-fly zone for her. You'll have to be prepared to accept this if you're going to talk about it.

Also, fwiw, I had a rebound/one night stand with a guy who was SO rough ... :) I know for sure now what I am and am NOT asking for from a future partner. I am really happy I discovered this without cheating on my partner; even though the breakup was rough, it's still better this way.

Good luck!
posted by human ecologist at 8:18 PM on October 3, 2010 [2 favorites]

You should cheat on her. That's what you want to hear isn't it?

I think you need to understand that the function of marriage is bigger than your penis.
posted by WhiteWhale at 8:31 PM on October 3, 2010 [15 favorites]

Oddly enough, when I first read the question, I bet myself that you wanted to be dominated. It was something about your tone, which comes across acting as if you are trapped in the situation (I *must* marry her. She's *forcing* me to cheat).

There are many experienced kinksters here who are giving you great answers up above. My only contribution is to wonder whether submission could happen in your mind, as part of the imaginative fantasies you bring to your encounters. I understand that she's not willing to tie you up, say. But couldn't you imagine that you're bound, for example? Couldn't you imagine that she's ordering you to take your clothes off, or do whatever?
posted by jasper411 at 8:50 PM on October 3, 2010 [1 favorite]

Number 1, Have you ever had a personal kink and tried to stick it out with a person who would not do it with you, so you never got to do it?

Yes. And while it may feel that you're being held hostage in certain ways, it is up to you to make it clear that kink is something you need in your life.

Having said that,

Number 2, Have you ever tried to push/help someone through a strong refusal for your own selfish but honestly deserved needs? That can't work/really be healthy for everyone, right?

Oh dear. Listen, there are a few things you need to understand here. First of all, you cannot force your kink on another person. You just cannot do it. Once it's clear to you that your partner is not interested in particular sexual acts, it is unfair for you to expect her to participate. That kind of behavior just makes a person feel awful.

On the other hand, your needs aren't selfish. They're your needs. And we can't really do anything about your partner's lack of interest in BDSM. If you still want to marry her, it's imperative that you have a talk about what your needs are and what you can do to make sure those needs are met. Maybe she wouldn't mind you seeing a pro-domme. It's not going to be an easy conversation -- and it's not just going to be one conversation -- but there may be a solution, and you won't know until you ask.

Number 3, Have you ever made the executive decision to just lie to a person you love and cheat/sort of cheat on them for their own good and/or so the relationship could last?

Please don't do this.

In your response, you listed five options. It's up to you to decide, but unless you really feel BDSM isn't very important to you, you shouldn't try to shut it out -- there's no reason for you to make yourself unhappy. We've already established you cannot pressure your partner into sexual activities that are unpleasant for her. Cheating is ill-advised. Your only real options are four and five -- either work it out, or break up.

I really hope you guys can work it out. A lot of us eventually reach a place where we realize vanilla relationships aren't enough for us, and that we have other needs. It doesn't have to mean the vanilla relationships are over. On the one hand, you shouldn't feel guilty about being sexually submissive. What you need to do is figure out how important it is to you, and then tell your partner. If it falls anywhere on your top-ten-most-important-things list, you're going to have to make some changes to your relationship.
posted by KinkySockPuppet at 9:11 PM on October 3, 2010 [1 favorite]

It was something about your tone, which comes across acting as if you are trapped in the situation (I *must* marry her. She's *forcing* me to cheat)... My only contribution is to wonder whether submission could happen in your mind, as part of the imaginative fantasies you bring to your encounters.

Nice insight - but doesn't that mean he is already being dominated, by her "strong refusal of his deserved needs"? Maybe he doesn't even need to imagine anything, it's actually happening. Her refusal to fully reveal herself as the dominatrix that he already "knows" that she is is the very form of her domination of him.
posted by AlsoMike at 9:31 PM on October 3, 2010

On your #2, you might be interested in this past comment from IFDSS#9, which seems in the same vein as the advice from Forktine above. There's a big gulf between "introduce someone to" and "pressure," and I don't know what your discussion has been like so far and what sort of no you received. It sounds like this is off the table, but not knowing what you asked and how she said no, I wonder if there's still a chance that you could introduce the ideas in a slow, fun way.

On #1, you've tried it, no? And it's not working so it's not an option, right? One question on this: is the resentment because of no future kink, or because you feel rejected or somethibg? The sudden urgency here is an interesting clue to me. Maybe getting married is raising the stakes? Maybe being turned down like "no fucking way, I don't care what you want, you're on your own with this one buddy" replaced some previous feeling on your end of "oh well" with resentment and insistence.

On #3, there are tons of past AskMes about cheating and being cheated on, and the message I took home from reading them is that everyone eventually feels absolutely horrible.

My advice: look at what changed to make #1 suddenly so much less thinkable to make sure that the real need here isn't something like "feeling cared about." If not, then consider if you can find a positive and non-pressuring way to (re)introduce the topic, sort of #2-lite, maybe with more advice from people at fetlife. If that fails, try to negotiate for #5, if that would work for you, and if not, then choose between #1 and #4. But please do all of this before getting married.
posted by salvia at 9:37 PM on October 3, 2010

I see three options for you.
  • Suck it up, accept that this deeply important part of your sexuality is not on the table, will go unsatisfied, and marry her. This also means you don't get to whine later on about not getting what you want. Ever. Because you went into this marriage eyes open.
  • Come to an EXPLICIT, FULLY INFORMED agreement with her up front that you going outside the marriage to express this side of your sexuality is okay with the both of you. This also gets to mean she gets to explore. I recommend the book The Lifestyle as a useful starting point.
  • Don't marry her and break up because you're so sexually incompatible, it's that important to you, and she's not into a swinging lifestyle. Trust me. it's an option.

posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 9:37 PM on October 3, 2010 [1 favorite]

Heavily disagree w/ ThomasBrobber that you don't "deserve" your fetish to be fulfilled. You do. As long as it doesn't harm someone else, we all do. But I definitely agree that your marriage is doomed if you think you deserve to be sexually fulfilled at the possible expense of your partner's heartbreak AND sexual health. Be responsible with both, no matter what.
posted by Juicy Avenger at 11:47 PM on October 3, 2010

If #4 and #5 are off the table, then #1 is the only option that has the remotest chance of working.

Now, I come from a completely different background on this than most people who tend to comment here. An awful lot of Pakistanis get married to people without having previously had sex with them. And yes, there are lots of Pakistanis who cheat on their spouses (I have no idea if the number is larger or smaller than in the US), but there are also an awful lot who don't (again, I have no idea of the relative proportions).

By definition, those of us who have never had sex outside of marriage have had to negotiate the issue of personal fetishes and fantasies in the context of an already committed relationship. So, you get some of what you want, if you're lucky you get a lot of the things you want, but some of them you give up on. Your partner does the same.

Sexual incompatibility is a pretty strong blanket description for disagreement over one kind of sexual activity. However, if you feel that having this unfulfilled desire is not something you can deal with in the long-term, then it's better to end the relationship now.

My view is that in life, we don't always get everything we want, and that we need to figure out for ourselves which things matter most to us.
posted by bardophile at 11:48 PM on October 3, 2010

Decide if it is a fetish or a sexual identity.

A fetish is something that you enjoy doing in bed.. Or need to do to be fulfilled in bed.

A sexual identity is more - your kink in that case is part of how you have sex, and how you love and relate to love partners. It is in a way like being gay or lesbian although in a different aspect of relatedness. Point being 'it is not about getting your rocks off.'

For me it was a sexual identity and I had to leave a four year marriage.

Email is in profile if you want to talk. I've mentored a bunch of submissives.

Please come to the mefites on fetlife group, and please go to a munch in your area. Simply meeting folks who share this with you is incredibly affirming.
posted by By The Grace of God at 12:24 AM on October 4, 2010 [3 favorites]

I can NOT imagine calling this wedding off, NOT an option. We are both very in love...

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but contemplating extramarital sex with a prostitute in order to fulfil your own sexual fantasies does not sound like love, not even remotely. Cancel the wedding, grow up and find someone with whom you're 99.999% certain you won't have a problem "forsaking all others".
posted by braemar at 12:57 AM on October 4, 2010 [2 favorites]

Don't pressure her. You will make her feel like crap for not being into what you're into, it will add stress to your relationship, adn she will no doubt feel that you don't respect her telling you 'no'. Not wanting to do the kink doesn't make her uptight - it makes her someone who just doesn't get off that way and doesn't think trying it would be much fun for both of you - like having sex with someone you don't really fancy, just to get off. Presumably you have been together long enough for her to feel comfortable enough to try new things (I find personally that in theory I am not kinky, but dynamics of a particular relationship can lead me to explore things more and kinks can appear specific to the relationship because we both feel safe and happy with those) and she's still telling you no. She's hardly doing it to spite you.

You need to either speak to her about your feelings, properly and perhaps with the aid of a professional, to see if there is a compromise or answer that works for BOTH of you, or you need to start imagining leaving the marriage.
posted by mippy at 1:49 AM on October 4, 2010

I know a woman whose husband kept pushing her for anal. She kept saying no. He kept pushing, by asking nicely, by trying to introduce butt play when they were in bed, etc. The upshot was that they stopped having any sex. At all. Because she felt like he was always sulking about it when they had vanilla sex after he asked and she said no, and she eventually couldn't trust that he wouldn't start poking at her butt, which at first was a little sexy but he would always then try to go to the next step, with the result that she would just freeze up and tense up and couldn't have sex AT ALL. She would jump sky-high if he, say, gave her an affectionate ass-slap on his way through the kitchen.

They're still married, not having sex unless they're drunk, and pretty miserable. But they have teenagers and can't afford to get divorced. Divorce is hella more expensive than calling off a wedding.

(Another reason cheating is a bad idea: Divorce is especially expensive if she's going to pursue a fault divorce if she found out you were cheating ... and keep that in mind if you decide to cheat, this is potentially something that could end up on the front page of the local paper if you cheat, she catches you and divorces you and pursue a for-fault divorce where she proves you cheated. Happened to a sleazebag I'm acquainted with. His mother got to read all about his sex life in excruciatingly embarrassing court filings. Girls who google him before dates find out about it, and most are put off by getting to read all about the intimate encounters he had with one-night-stands in his wife's bed starting two weeks after he married her. This was an extreme case (and this guy was SO sleazy), most people just have ugly messy private divorces, but it's definitely within the realm of the possible.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:11 AM on October 4, 2010 [2 favorites]

I'm a dominant female and I have known many a submissive male whose previous partners did not participate in their fetish. Notice the word PREVIOUS. They didn't necessarily break up exclusively because of the sexual incompatibility, but it was a factor, every single time. Sorry, but being "lightly dominated" is not something that "a lot" of "normal" people do. If it were, there wouldn't be legions of submissive men looking for partners. The ratio is something like 20 to 1 in my experience.

You could pressure your fiancée into doing this, but why do you want to have sex with someone who is disgusted and miserable while doing it? Or is that part of the fetish? Really think about that - you want your partner to do something that makes her feel gross and miserable. Because you "need it." Is that really your idea of love? Think of something that truly disgusts you - would you be happy trying it on any sort of regular basis for her? Would you not resent her for emotionally manipulating you into it?

I have a specific fetish in which my husband has absolutely zero interest, and you know what, it's perfectly fine that I will never get to participate in it. There's porn I can watch. There's my own mind. Pressuring him and cheating on him are not an option because I love him and he's worth much more than any fetish. He also has a fetish in which I am not interested, and the above holds true for him. We've been together for six years and I am confident in saying we will be together forever no matter if neither of us ever participates in our respective fetishes again. Why? Because there are plenty of other things to do in the bedroom on which we can agree. There are thousands of options out there; your fiancée is opposed to one category. I refuse to believe that you cannot find anything else that would satisfy both of you and keep you faithful.
posted by desjardins at 6:51 AM on October 4, 2010 [14 favorites]

The thing is, this is not a particularly unusual situation, requiring complicated moral calculus and a council of rabbis. This is a very ordinary situation.

I wonder how isolated you are, that you are trying to convince yourself that it's okay to pre-plan a sham marriage. I think that you must be reasoning that you are under exceptional and irresolvable pressures, unlike the ones that face "ordinary" people. The ones without kinks. And I suspect you may be feeling frustrated because the people railing at you for how unacceptable these plans are just don't understand how few options you have.

The truth, though, is that you are in a very ordinary place, a place a lot of kinky people have been in, and the ethical mechanics of the situation are the same as in most ordinary situations.

You will not be happy if you act without integrity. Integrity means that what is happening on this inside is the same as what is happening on the outside. It means not lying to yourself, it means not lying to your spouse, and it means identifying the difference between a want and a need.

You are engaged to be married. Do you think that what happens in bed** is going to be the biggest strain on your marriage? Do you think that hammering out sexuality is going to be the worst conversation you ever have? It isn't. You may have to deal with job loss, heinous debt, sick children, dying children, your dying partner, your home being flooded to the gills or burned to the ground, whacked out relatives, mental illness, hell in a handbasket. And yet, you don't believe that you can resolve your sex life -- which SHOULD be a thing which brings you together, not something that drives you apart.

And honesty is a habit. It is easier for me to be honest with my spouse now than when I met him, because years of experience leave me confident that things go better the more honest I am.

You say that not getting married is off the table. I assume you think divorce is off the table, too. But if you're lying to your partner, if you're planning to lie to your partner, then you are planning a divorce before the wedding. There will *be* no marriage, because it will be made in bad faith.

I realize you're flailing because all the options in front of you look bad. Well, when you have a hand full of bad choices, choose the one that involves acting with integrity. It generally involves the shortest path through.

**or in the dungeon, or the fairgrounds, or whatever
posted by endless_forms at 8:23 AM on October 4, 2010 [10 favorites]

Also: I agree strongly with the people who are saying that the relative ordinariness of your fetish is irrelevant. However, the fact that you’ve disclosed it leads me to add two things:

First, I’m willing to tell you, from direct personal experience, that, yes, some people who think they aren’t interested in topping and/or can’t top discover that they can. Someone upthread mentioned that the kinky dynamic in their relationship ended up reversed from what they thought they wanted, and yet, they found it fulfilling. However, I will also tell you, from direct personal experience, that some people who aren’t interested and can’t do it, really just can’t. There are plenty of happy, open-minded, experienced kinksters who try to switch and it doesn’t work. It’s not necessarily for lack of willingness or open-mindedness or love of their partners.

Second, I think you were hoping that people would tell you that what you want is so normal, it’s abnormal of her to be refusing to do it, and that therefore you are driven to extremes to satisfy normal urges in the face of an abnormally obstinate partner. This is a mistake. The very ordinariness of your desires should be your signal that your situation is very common, and your proposed solution also very common.

You would not be engaged in a heroic act to save your marriage in the face of unusual pressures; you’d be engaged in the utterly banal act of cheating on your wife.
posted by endless_forms at 10:51 AM on October 4, 2010 [4 favorites]

Please don't take the path described above about keeping quiet about it and then when you've had a few nice days to bring it up again and ask. You will end up with a wife who gets stressed when things are going well because she knows that any second now you are going to pull the puppy-dog eyes and make her reject you again. Before too long she may wonder whether any and all nice things you do are merely to fill up your account so you can ask, again, for this favour.
posted by Iteki at 11:36 AM on October 4, 2010 [3 favorites]

Number 1, Suck it up and go without forever.
Number 2, Pressure her.
Number 3, Cheat on her.


please tell me about times you tried Number 1, 2, 3 or had them tried on you. Did it work out better or worse than you expected, did you come to a compromise that works for both of you, etc.

Tell you about the times I had #2 and #3 "tried on me" and how well they worked? In other words, the times someone tried to pressure me into sex/ certain sexual activities or cheated on me?

Well, okay. In my experience, having someone try to pressure me into sex or sexual activity was stressful, irritating, made me want to avoid the person completely, and made me think of them as a creep. That's in the situations when I didn't give in. In the situations where it worked and I did give in, when I was younger, it was stressful, unpleasant, sometimes painful, humiliating, and dehumanizing.

Having someone cheat on me was heartbreaking, humiliating, immediately ended the relationship and any willingness I'd have to be friends with that person at all, and permanently destroyed a lot of willingness to give the benefit of the doubt and trust that I had for people in general (although I think this is probably for the better, and has opened my eyes to reality a bit).

I think you have some pretty serious defects in your idea of what love is, what it means to love someone else. I do not think it's possible to truly love someone and pressure them into sexual activity they don't want at the same time. Maybe you feel like you desperately need her, or are fixated on her, or maybe you feel like she desperately needs you, or is fixated on you, but that's not the same thing. If you really loved someone the idea of them being pressured into unpleasant sexual acts would be abhorrent to you and make you sick to your stomach. Along similar lines, I'm surprised that if she thinks she loves you, and she knows the extent of this, she is willing to go ahead and get married to you knowing she'll never be willing or able to provide what you want.
posted by Ashley801 at 11:48 AM on October 4, 2010 [11 favorites]

Oh hey I remembered something useful.

Sunk costs can't be recovered.

Those ten years? Great - you've both experienced them and gained and lost a lot together. But they are not an excuse to marry.

Theres no reason you can't break up and still be friends one day.
posted by By The Grace of God at 11:51 AM on October 4, 2010 [3 favorites]

Well, when you have a hand full of bad choices, choose the one that involves acting with integrity. It generally involves the shortest path through.

If there is one sentence you must take from these answers, it should be this one.
posted by Ironmouth at 12:19 PM on October 4, 2010 [9 favorites]

"I am interested in being lightly dominated, nothing extreme."

What would your fiance consider "cheating"? Can you watch D/s porn? Call a femdom phone sex line? Establish an ongoing contract with an online dominatrix? Your fiance might be OK with stuff that stops short of actually meeting and interacting with other women in person. Could those outlets satisfy you?

Also, if your marriage is typical, you can probably expect your wife to naturally get bossier as time goes on. :) So you could pretend that she's scolding you for being a naughty boy and you could make up appropriate sexual punishments that you inflict on yourself in private. If you develop of set of rules that you decide you must follow based on things she says or does, perhaps that would be enough to create the sense of loss of control that you're craving?

Or, acting as submissive in bed as you can get away with and giving lots of positive reinforcement whenever she does anything a little by dominant (by being very obviously turned on, do whatever you can to get her off, tell her how much you love her and how sexy she is when she does it, show your appreciation with little romantic surprises) might encourage her develop her dominant side. Rewarding and praising "positive" behavior is usually much more effective in behavior modification than nagging, cajoling, and other forms of pressure.

If you have a really great relationship other than the lack of a shared kink, I'd think long and hard about whether this is worth wrecking this over. The older you get and the longer you're married, the less important sex is relative to the other aspects of your relationship. One day you'll be old and possibly unable to get it up anymore (and have a medical condition that precludes Viagra). Would you really want your wife to dump you or cheat on you because of that?
posted by Jacqueline at 1:24 PM on October 4, 2010 [2 favorites]

My ex-husband wanted to be cuckolded. I am very open to kink, but I did not want to cuckold him. He did not understand why I would not do this (uh, my body?) and tried option #2. It came to dominate our sex life, which eventually became non-existent. We argued about it for years. I wish I'd put my foot down and told him to fuck off earlier instead of wasting years trying to please him while sticking to my boundaries.

We are, needless to say, no longer together. (In an amusing twist, I am now very happily living with the man I eventually gave in and cuckolded my ex with. My ex has a new partner and has no interest in having her cuckold him. We are both much, much happier.)

If it means that much to you, it's not going to work.
posted by corvine at 1:48 PM on October 4, 2010

Aren't you already pressuring her? It really sounds like you are, you just want to make it even more pressure-y.

At this point after all of the posts, I'm thinking you should just tell her, "You'd better dominate me or I WILL CHEAT ON YOU. I'm already planning how to do it." Which is quite pressure-y, but at least she'd have fair warning and then can decide to break up or cave in for you.

I think you're being blockheaded on this one, unfortunately. I don't think anyone here has had a happy experience pressuring or restraining themselves or cheating, but you sound hellbent on cheating rather than any of the other options, so... yeah.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:40 PM on October 4, 2010

You don't DESERVE any sexual fetish. [...] You are being selfish and childish. You want to have your cake and eat it too and that's just not how life and relationships work.

I can just hear someone in my head yakking the same nonsense to a confused homosexual 100 years ago. Fetishes and kinks are not always something that's optional or something that's deliberated about (like, say, preferring blondes). They can be facets of your sexuality that will not go away and may, in some cases, even distress those who have them.

That said, I'll go along with that this couple is not well suited sexually and that, usually, is a deal breaker that could/should lead to a breakup even if the rest of the relationship is fine (especially pre-marriage/kids).
posted by wackybrit at 5:04 PM on October 4, 2010 [2 favorites]

You don't DESERVE any sexual fetish. [...] You are being selfish and childish. You want to have your cake and eat it too and that's just not how life and relationships work.

I can just hear someone in my head yakking the same nonsense to a confused homosexual 100 years ago. Fetishes and kinks are not always something that's optional or something that's deliberated about (like, say, preferring blondes). They can be facets of your sexuality that will not go away and may, in some cases, even distress those who have them.

"Confused homosexuals" 100 years ago weren't asking about how to pressure other men who weren't interested in gay sex into sleeping with them.

Nobody is saying he is being selfish and childish for having his fetish, or wanting a sex life where his fetish is met. Nobody is saying his fetish is optional and is not a facet of his sexuality.

What is selfish and childish is trying to get his way by force, either by cheating or by pressuring her, with someone who doesn't want the same thing. Instead of just breaking up with her and finding someone who wants the same thing.
posted by Ashley801 at 5:33 PM on October 4, 2010 [9 favorites]

I was married to a guy who's fetish was more important to him than I was. He never even told me about it before we married. I only found out by "accident." (Long story short, I found his special clothes, porn, and other incidentals in a way that was orchestrated.) Then, I found out he'd been cheating on me since before I found out.

I don't think he even meant to hurt me so much and it still gouges at my gut sometimes. And that was 20 years ago.

Please don't be that guy. Just let her know so she can make her own decisions about what she wants and is willing to do. If it's something that you really need, tell her so. She's agreed to be your wife, right? I would have given that guy a free pass and never told a soul if he'd have just been honest. I only told one of our mutual friends years later when he asked about the real reason for the divorce, but some figured it out on their own.
posted by lilywing13 at 12:24 AM on October 5, 2010

Number 1, Suck it up and go without forever.

Yeah, this is NOT going to work. You're not even married yet and you are already chafing at the bit. Remember the story of the garden of Eden and how Adam and Eve could have any fruit, any one at all they wanted, except the apple? Remember how that turned out? Forbidden fruit is sweet. In fact, you may be wanting to be dominated even more simply BECAUSE it is forbidden. I think that's likely, actually, since the two of you have been together ten years already and this is just now becoming a deal-breaker for the two of you.

I'm a kinky person, and I know I need to be with someone who is not going to make me feel dirty or ashamed of my kinks. And I think your future wife needs to be with someone who appreciates that she has her own kinks, or that she is just fine being vanilla. You are not doing her any favors by "sucking it up."

Number 2, Pressure her.

Please, please don't do this! And don't take Jacqueline's advice, either (sorry, Jacqueline) about just being as passive in bed as you can "get away with." There's a reason it's called passive-aggressive behavior. It's an act of covert aggression.

Pressuring, whether through constant wheedling, covert or overt acts, builds resentment. You are already resenting her for not indulging you. She will resent you for forcing the issue. The most likely way this will come to a head is the two of you will stop having sex altogether. It may take a while, but trust me, this is really common. And that's why a lot of relationships end up breaking down--because issues that were never dealt with in the beginning have been allowed to simmer and fester. You WILL have to address this. Better now, before marriage, then down the line, when you are living together, maybe with kids, etc.

Number 3, Cheat on her.

Well, let's say you do this. You seem to assume that you, who have only had this one partner for ten years, can easily find someone with whom to indulge your kink, even though it turned off the love of your life.

Okay, big assumption. Where are you going to find this mythical domme outside of your own relationship? If you hire a professional, you need to have a way to hide the finances, you need to be able to lie about the assignations, you will be shutting out your wife and probably having less sex with her and will need a story to cover it, you will find more and more reasons to avoid your wife and be with the domme, and all of that is NOT going to help your marriage any.

If you don't find a professional, you'll have to woo someone. Hey, who knows, maybe you can find a casual sexual partner on Craig's List or something. If you do, you had better be absolutely, positively sure that person is not just some sick, physically abusive woman, but an actual dominatrix. Oh, and she can't be a stalker, or someone who might become enamored of you, because that would get complicated. She can't want more than you are prepared to give (the occasional encounter, where your sexual needs are met), she must be discreet, and she had better be the type not to hold a grudge when you break it off (because the last thing you want is for this person to clue your wife in). If you found this paramour, how do you know that you wouldn't fall for *her*? And then you'd be breaking up your marriage for ANOTHER WOMAN. How is that better than breaking it off now? You've only added deceit and infidelity into the mix.

I know two men whose wives wouldn't indulge them in oral sex. Only one of them is still with his partner, more out of inertia, I think, than anything else. His wife wanted kids, too, and he didn't, and now they have two, both of which she claims were "accidents". I like to think that he is happy about being a father, because his kids are great, but the truth is he resents the hell out of the whole situation, he doesn't feel like he can trust his wife, and I know he's been unfaithful with at least twice so far (two different women), so she can't trust him either. One of the break-ups was really messy and he was sweating the wife finding out. At that point, we distanced ourselves from him, because it was obviously a pattern of behavior that was going to go on. Last I heard, he and the wife were still together, but I don't think you could call it a good marriage. And you know what his kink was? Oral sex. That's it.
posted by misha at 3:12 PM on October 5, 2010 [4 favorites]

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