Best place to live
March 22, 2005 12:36 PM Subscribe
What is the best location in the USA to live?
I have a somewhat sheltered experience. I'm 25/single (just leaving a 3.5 year relationship), I have lived in Rhode Island for the past 15 years. I am employed but unhappy (and there's not much to choose from here), the housing market is insane (median house cost: $264,700), the winter is too long, and I feel the need to broaden my horizons. The only friends I have are settling down -- married, kids, mortgage. I'm not ready for this yet, I don't know if I ever will be.
My criteria that define the "best" location are:
I have a somewhat sheltered experience. I'm 25/single (just leaving a 3.5 year relationship), I have lived in Rhode Island for the past 15 years. I am employed but unhappy (and there's not much to choose from here), the housing market is insane (median house cost: $264,700), the winter is too long, and I feel the need to broaden my horizons. The only friends I have are settling down -- married, kids, mortgage. I'm not ready for this yet, I don't know if I ever will be.
My criteria that define the "best" location are:
- Low cost of living
- Warm weather most of the year
- Culture
- People are cool, not backwards thinking/racist/whatever
- Available jobs (I'm a computer programmer)
- Nature/scenery/ocean proximity a good thing
do you want to live in a city?
how warm is warm--for example portland, oregon is pretty temperate, but not warm, during the winter.
remember, low cost of living will be difficult to attain in the best place in the US, as a lot of people want to live there, more than likely. but a decent job (like programmer) should compensage you accordingly.
posted by alkupe at 12:51 PM on March 22, 2005
how warm is warm--for example portland, oregon is pretty temperate, but not warm, during the winter.
remember, low cost of living will be difficult to attain in the best place in the US, as a lot of people want to live there, more than likely. but a decent job (like programmer) should compensage you accordingly.
posted by alkupe at 12:51 PM on March 22, 2005
Though I consider it a foul, soulless, spirit-crushing hellhole, there are people who love Los Angeles, and it meets all your criteria except for cheapness (though I think you can live affordably there).
However, when, after you move there, California tumbles into the sea, don't go blamin' me.
posted by Dr. Wu at 12:55 PM on March 22, 2005
However, when, after you move there, California tumbles into the sea, don't go blamin' me.
posted by Dr. Wu at 12:55 PM on March 22, 2005
I agree with ROU. I don't think you're going to find any place that has everything on that list. Stretch your definition of "Warm" a little, and Seattle would be close... oh, except the low cost of living.
You can go out into the middle of nowhere and find everything on your list, except the culture and the jobs.
posted by agropyron at 12:58 PM on March 22, 2005
You can go out into the middle of nowhere and find everything on your list, except the culture and the jobs.
posted by agropyron at 12:58 PM on March 22, 2005
Response by poster: City: I'm open to it.
Climate: I like hot weather, I want to ride my motorcycle for more than 3 months a year. I hate shoveling snow and cleaning slop off my car. I like the smell of air conditioning.
Cost: The main reason I specify low cost of living is because I hate working 9-5 every day with 2 or 3 weeks of vacation time. I think it's utterly ridiculous. It's almost enough to make me want to leave the US completely, but I there are things I do like here. So I figure if the cost of living is low enough, I can work less and still live comfortably. I don't have a lot of material needs.
I understand no place will have all of these. I'm looking for specific examples of people who have the same preferences I do, and found decent compromises. Thanks for the answers so far. :)
posted by knave at 1:00 PM on March 22, 2005
Climate: I like hot weather, I want to ride my motorcycle for more than 3 months a year. I hate shoveling snow and cleaning slop off my car. I like the smell of air conditioning.
Cost: The main reason I specify low cost of living is because I hate working 9-5 every day with 2 or 3 weeks of vacation time. I think it's utterly ridiculous. It's almost enough to make me want to leave the US completely, but I there are things I do like here. So I figure if the cost of living is low enough, I can work less and still live comfortably. I don't have a lot of material needs.
I understand no place will have all of these. I'm looking for specific examples of people who have the same preferences I do, and found decent compromises. Thanks for the answers so far. :)
posted by knave at 1:00 PM on March 22, 2005
This is an excellent question, and having chewed on this for a few years, I think you'll find yourself having to evaluate based on the lesser of the evils. Personally I wanted to find a progressive community to live in but I've found that they're always expensive to live in (kind of strange bedfellows as sprawl is the antithesis of that, maybe it's the way it draws IT jobs). We were going to move to Vermont as the lesser of many evils, but the peak oil situation has trended us towards a more self-sufficient lifestyle and we're buying land down south.
posted by rolypolyman at 1:03 PM on March 22, 2005
posted by rolypolyman at 1:03 PM on March 22, 2005
Generally year round warmth and culture are incompatible with low cost of living. Everyone else wants that too, so prices get driven high. However, you might be able to get lucky with one of the cities along the Southwest that are still growing. Maybe Phoenix or Albuquerque??
It'll be easier to find options if you define your criteria in more detail, especially clarifying where there's flexibility. For instance "avg temp above 60", "within 1 hour drive of major cultural center", "avg house price under $150k". There are a number of sites that can help you evaluate cities of criteria like this.
posted by nakedcodemonkey at 1:06 PM on March 22, 2005
It'll be easier to find options if you define your criteria in more detail, especially clarifying where there's flexibility. For instance "avg temp above 60", "within 1 hour drive of major cultural center", "avg house price under $150k". There are a number of sites that can help you evaluate cities of criteria like this.
posted by nakedcodemonkey at 1:06 PM on March 22, 2005
You're asking for a lot - but that's good. I suggest you check out Iowa City. Don't laugh.
To greater or lesser degrees it has everything on your list with the exception of no winter. The cold stuff kicks in around Thanksgiving-ish and lasts until around March. I talked to someone there recently and people have already started golfing?! I also imagine the winters in Iowa are better than those out East.
posted by quadog at 1:08 PM on March 22, 2005
To greater or lesser degrees it has everything on your list with the exception of no winter. The cold stuff kicks in around Thanksgiving-ish and lasts until around March. I talked to someone there recently and people have already started golfing?! I also imagine the winters in Iowa are better than those out East.
posted by quadog at 1:08 PM on March 22, 2005
I have met people who manage to live quite frugally in LA, so it's not that expensive a city for them. and you have sun, movies, museums, galleries, different ethnic groups, relatively progressive politics, awesome Mexican food
posted by matteo at 1:10 PM on March 22, 2005
posted by matteo at 1:10 PM on March 22, 2005
I recommend Austin, TX. I basically had the same exact criteria as you and moved here in January. Great weather, people, food, music, jobs, bus system, cost of living. It's also somewhat of a tech-city and most of the campus of UT is wireless. If the ocean was a little bit closer it would be perfect.
posted by foraneagle2 at 1:24 PM on March 22, 2005
posted by foraneagle2 at 1:24 PM on March 22, 2005
Well, Dallas is a good city that meets all your needs, except the proximity to ocean and scenery requirement.
Since there is no income tax in Texas, you can live well in Dallas on less money. It definitely has warm weather, and an ever increasing amount of cultural things. Dallas is a Democratic town in terms of local politics, and there are progressive types. There are also conservative types which tend to be in the suburbs, but Dallas itself is an ethnically and politically diverse town. There aren't racial hostilities. There is a large gay population with no hostility to them.
And as far as finding tech jobs, it is a great place to find jobs. Lots of tech companies are based here.
The only thing that it doesn't have is natural scenery. There are tons of trees and lakes, but no mountains or hills.
Other than Dallas, I would recommend some beautiful towns on the east coast such as Charlotte. I think that would fit all of your needs very well. Charlestown, South Carolina is very nice as well, but I'm not sure about its tech industry. It may also be a too much of a Southern town for you.
posted by dios at 1:26 PM on March 22, 2005
Since there is no income tax in Texas, you can live well in Dallas on less money. It definitely has warm weather, and an ever increasing amount of cultural things. Dallas is a Democratic town in terms of local politics, and there are progressive types. There are also conservative types which tend to be in the suburbs, but Dallas itself is an ethnically and politically diverse town. There aren't racial hostilities. There is a large gay population with no hostility to them.
And as far as finding tech jobs, it is a great place to find jobs. Lots of tech companies are based here.
The only thing that it doesn't have is natural scenery. There are tons of trees and lakes, but no mountains or hills.
Other than Dallas, I would recommend some beautiful towns on the east coast such as Charlotte. I think that would fit all of your needs very well. Charlestown, South Carolina is very nice as well, but I'm not sure about its tech industry. It may also be a too much of a Southern town for you.
posted by dios at 1:26 PM on March 22, 2005
Denver! I have been pondering relocation lately for many of the same reasons as you, knave, and I just visited a friend recently in Denver. Check it out: Gorgeous scenery within half an hour--the whole time we were there I wished I had my bike. Nice old Victorian and bungalow housing stock. TONS of used bookstores. Happening music (rock, Americana, punk) scene. Dry climate! We were there in Feb. and it was 50-55 and sunny! Good museums. Decent restaurants. And, at least in the downtown historic district called Baker where my friends live, progressive, good-minded people. Damn. I'd move there in a second. Don't know about tech jobs though, but it is known by some as "Wall Street West," so that's gotta tell you something. Cost of living is cheaper than the New York tristate area, FWIW. Damn. See you later, I hafta call UHaul.
posted by scratch at 1:28 PM on March 22, 2005
posted by scratch at 1:28 PM on March 22, 2005
I'd recommend the Southwest, which is growing but still not too expensive. The culture aspect may be lacking though. On the east coast, check out the Research Triangle (Raleigh-Durham), NC and Charlottesville, VA. Both college-town areas but not nearly as expensive as New England.
posted by Saucy Intruder at 1:29 PM on March 22, 2005
posted by Saucy Intruder at 1:29 PM on March 22, 2005
Why not check out Atlanta?
I'm surprised no one has suggested Atlanta, perhaps the lawlessness is a problem. I lived in Atlanta for a spell, find myself in Chicago, and am moving back to Atlanta as soon as possible; The weather is pleasant, the job market is reasonable; et al. Ceteris paribus, it's hard to have a bad day when the weather is nice.
posted by AllesKlar at 1:31 PM on March 22, 2005
I'm surprised no one has suggested Atlanta, perhaps the lawlessness is a problem. I lived in Atlanta for a spell, find myself in Chicago, and am moving back to Atlanta as soon as possible; The weather is pleasant, the job market is reasonable; et al. Ceteris paribus, it's hard to have a bad day when the weather is nice.
posted by AllesKlar at 1:31 PM on March 22, 2005
I just noticed you comment about being single. As such, I would advise against smaller cities (like Charlottesville that was just mentioned) That just cuts down the possible dating pool. Since I recommended Dallas, I would tell you that it is a great city to be single if you want to be single or find someone. All big cities usually are. Atlanta is a good singles town, too, but I think there are many things to speak against Atlanta and I wouldn't recommend it for anyone.
posted by dios at 1:34 PM on March 22, 2005
posted by dios at 1:34 PM on March 22, 2005
With the computer programming, have you thought about San Jose? Certainly not as many jobs as during the "Boom" but things are not totally dead. Unfortunately, not cheap (though maybe a shade below $an Francisco =).
posted by idontlikewords at 1:38 PM on March 22, 2005
posted by idontlikewords at 1:38 PM on March 22, 2005
Ashville & Raleigh, NC
Certain neighborhoods in Atlanta, esp Midtown
Not all of the south is racist. Take a look at college towns and larger metro areas, then live intown, not in the burbs.
I also recommend taking a look at findyourspot.com and bestplaces.net
posted by abbyladybug at 1:45 PM on March 22, 2005
Certain neighborhoods in Atlanta, esp Midtown
Not all of the south is racist. Take a look at college towns and larger metro areas, then live intown, not in the burbs.
I also recommend taking a look at findyourspot.com and bestplaces.net
posted by abbyladybug at 1:45 PM on March 22, 2005
I strongly recommend living close to a national border, so that when the shit flies you can escape.
posted by five fresh fish at 1:49 PM on March 22, 2005
posted by five fresh fish at 1:49 PM on March 22, 2005
I can't believe people have mentioned Los Angeles but not San Diego. Parts of it are pretty expensive, cost-of-living-wise, but otherwise it's perfect.
Also, I hear it's possible to live on next-to-nothing on the California coast between LA and San Fransisco. I see a lot of beach bums who spend their whole day surfing and riding their bike up and down the PCH. Cost of living is low, but so is the job prospect and the level of 'culture'.
posted by muddgirl at 1:50 PM on March 22, 2005
Also, I hear it's possible to live on next-to-nothing on the California coast between LA and San Fransisco. I see a lot of beach bums who spend their whole day surfing and riding their bike up and down the PCH. Cost of living is low, but so is the job prospect and the level of 'culture'.
posted by muddgirl at 1:50 PM on March 22, 2005
I agree that it's really difficult to find a place in the US that is warm, liberally minded, and relatively inexpensive. As people have pointed out, they seem to be mutually exclusive...
LA is great, but housing is outrageous. If you're looking to buy a house, LA is not the place for you. Same for Denver - housing is really, really expensive. Oregon has much of what you're looking for, though not the climate. I hated Dallas, personally, but maybe I just met all the wrong people there. I've heard great things about Austin, but I've also heard it's getting expensive.
Also, do not under any circumstance choose Tallahassee - it is a beautiful town, but not at all liberally minded. I found it to be quite racist and intolerant. There is a saying in Florida that the further north you drive, the further south you're going. As a rule, the northern parts are more backwards than the southern parts. I lived in Tampa for a few years, and it was OK.
My recommendation would be the southwest. There are parts of Arizona and New Mexico that are still relatively inexpensive, there are many liberal areas, the nature is beautiful, and the economy is picking up. If you can live without the ocean nearby, check it out.
Of course, it goes without saying that you should really do a roadtrip to check these places out for yourself - especially on the bike... ; )
posted by widdershins at 2:03 PM on March 22, 2005
LA is great, but housing is outrageous. If you're looking to buy a house, LA is not the place for you. Same for Denver - housing is really, really expensive. Oregon has much of what you're looking for, though not the climate. I hated Dallas, personally, but maybe I just met all the wrong people there. I've heard great things about Austin, but I've also heard it's getting expensive.
Also, do not under any circumstance choose Tallahassee - it is a beautiful town, but not at all liberally minded. I found it to be quite racist and intolerant. There is a saying in Florida that the further north you drive, the further south you're going. As a rule, the northern parts are more backwards than the southern parts. I lived in Tampa for a few years, and it was OK.
My recommendation would be the southwest. There are parts of Arizona and New Mexico that are still relatively inexpensive, there are many liberal areas, the nature is beautiful, and the economy is picking up. If you can live without the ocean nearby, check it out.
Of course, it goes without saying that you should really do a roadtrip to check these places out for yourself - especially on the bike... ; )
posted by widdershins at 2:03 PM on March 22, 2005
Denver - Dry climate! We were there in Feb. and it was 50-55 and sunny!
The average high for February for Denver is 47 degrees, and the low is 19. This year has been unseasonably warm in much of the West.
In general, most of the US has better weather than Rhode Island. You might consider Kentucky, Tennessee, and North Carolina (and much of Virginina, except Northern Virginia, near DC). Keep in mind that "ocean proximity" and "low cost of living" are exact opposites in the US - it's the middle of the country where housing isn't outrageously priced. If you focus only on the "plenty of nature and scenery", you can have that AND a low cost of living.
In general, larger cities are more expensive, but (a) have better job opportunities and (b) better social opportunities. The Raleigh/Durham area of North Carolina is pretty progressive. Keep in mind that the further south you get, the more brutal the summers.
[idontlikewords - calling San Jose "not cheap" is like calling New York City "not sparsely populated". ]
posted by WestCoaster at 2:12 PM on March 22, 2005
The average high for February for Denver is 47 degrees, and the low is 19. This year has been unseasonably warm in much of the West.
In general, most of the US has better weather than Rhode Island. You might consider Kentucky, Tennessee, and North Carolina (and much of Virginina, except Northern Virginia, near DC). Keep in mind that "ocean proximity" and "low cost of living" are exact opposites in the US - it's the middle of the country where housing isn't outrageously priced. If you focus only on the "plenty of nature and scenery", you can have that AND a low cost of living.
In general, larger cities are more expensive, but (a) have better job opportunities and (b) better social opportunities. The Raleigh/Durham area of North Carolina is pretty progressive. Keep in mind that the further south you get, the more brutal the summers.
[idontlikewords - calling San Jose "not cheap" is like calling New York City "not sparsely populated". ]
posted by WestCoaster at 2:12 PM on March 22, 2005
Some men's magazine came out with the top 50 places to live recently. I glanced at it and saw mobile AL and Tallahassee. I know both places very well and would only live there if you forced me to. I really doubt this is a question that can be answered by anyone other than yourself.
If you want warm and cheap, you have to move to the southeast, the Gulf coast, or Texas. If you move to any of these areas, you'll probably find more backwards / racist / Republican / Bible-thumping people than you'd like.
Please ignore this crap. I've lived all over the south and very rarely do I run into those things. But you can find it all over the country. And please note that the individual who posted such nonsense is labeling an entire region of the country as close minded. Irony at it's finest.
Florida that the further north you drive, the further south you're going. As a rule, the northern parts are more backwards than the southern parts. I lived in Tampa for a few years, and it was OK.
I've lived in miami and pensacola, as far north and south as you can go. Unless you're into partying pensacola has miami beat hands down. Northwest florida is far more beautiful than southern florida.
(and your 'rule' is silly by the way, as are most ignorant generalizations.)
posted by justgary at 2:12 PM on March 22, 2005
If you want warm and cheap, you have to move to the southeast, the Gulf coast, or Texas. If you move to any of these areas, you'll probably find more backwards / racist / Republican / Bible-thumping people than you'd like.
Please ignore this crap. I've lived all over the south and very rarely do I run into those things. But you can find it all over the country. And please note that the individual who posted such nonsense is labeling an entire region of the country as close minded. Irony at it's finest.
Florida that the further north you drive, the further south you're going. As a rule, the northern parts are more backwards than the southern parts. I lived in Tampa for a few years, and it was OK.
I've lived in miami and pensacola, as far north and south as you can go. Unless you're into partying pensacola has miami beat hands down. Northwest florida is far more beautiful than southern florida.
(and your 'rule' is silly by the way, as are most ignorant generalizations.)
posted by justgary at 2:12 PM on March 22, 2005
I live in Los Angeles, and I would say that you can find pretty much any level of cost of living here, from extremely high to very low. Everything depends on geography and how hot you want to go in the summer. That only applies to renting though, buying a house right now is a bit nutty.
I know people who live here without cars, which is a big cost of living savings. One thing that most people who don't live here or only visit quickly don't realize, is that there isn't one "Los Angeles". It is literally a loose combination of wildly different neighborhoods. It does take some gumption to get out and explore them. There are people who live in Santa Monica who fear going east of the 405 as well as the Los Feliz crowd that has never been to the beach.
We have the largest park in an American city (Griffith park), the Santa Monica mountains to hike in, we have the beaches as a border and skiing an hour and a half away. Any band, large or small is eventually going to come play here, our art scene is growing up and seriously, if you want any kind of food, it's here.
People live here on waiter's salaries while they struggle to get "discovered", so I think on a programmer's salary you could live well. One thing that is true about LA, professional salaries tend to be higher than elsewhere.
Moving here without knowing anyone could be a bit lonely though. Los Angeles is definitely not the easiest place to meet new friends, in part because of how spread out it is. I'm happy to answer any direct questions about Los Angeles as someone who planned to live here very temporaliy and am icnredibly glad that I have been here as long as I have.
posted by jonah at 2:17 PM on March 22, 2005
I know people who live here without cars, which is a big cost of living savings. One thing that most people who don't live here or only visit quickly don't realize, is that there isn't one "Los Angeles". It is literally a loose combination of wildly different neighborhoods. It does take some gumption to get out and explore them. There are people who live in Santa Monica who fear going east of the 405 as well as the Los Feliz crowd that has never been to the beach.
We have the largest park in an American city (Griffith park), the Santa Monica mountains to hike in, we have the beaches as a border and skiing an hour and a half away. Any band, large or small is eventually going to come play here, our art scene is growing up and seriously, if you want any kind of food, it's here.
People live here on waiter's salaries while they struggle to get "discovered", so I think on a programmer's salary you could live well. One thing that is true about LA, professional salaries tend to be higher than elsewhere.
Moving here without knowing anyone could be a bit lonely though. Los Angeles is definitely not the easiest place to meet new friends, in part because of how spread out it is. I'm happy to answer any direct questions about Los Angeles as someone who planned to live here very temporaliy and am icnredibly glad that I have been here as long as I have.
posted by jonah at 2:17 PM on March 22, 2005
Please ignore this crap. I've lived all over the south and very rarely do I run into those things. But you can find it all over the country
I've lived throughout the South as well. You can assuredly find racists anywhere you care to look.
I was referring more to the Bible-thumping Republicans, which is what I took knave's description of "backwards thinking" as referring to. If you don't want to live around conservative Southern Baptists, and lots of them, don't move to the South without taking some care about exactly where you'll be living. If you want to pretend that loudly conservative Christians aren't thicker on the ground in the South, you go ahead and pretend that, but pretending you will be.
knave, you might as well look into any Big State U college town in the South. If you don't mind living in Florida, Gainesville isn't a horror. You're an hour and a bit from the beach, there's nearby springs to play in locally.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:37 PM on March 22, 2005
I've lived throughout the South as well. You can assuredly find racists anywhere you care to look.
I was referring more to the Bible-thumping Republicans, which is what I took knave's description of "backwards thinking" as referring to. If you don't want to live around conservative Southern Baptists, and lots of them, don't move to the South without taking some care about exactly where you'll be living. If you want to pretend that loudly conservative Christians aren't thicker on the ground in the South, you go ahead and pretend that, but pretending you will be.
knave, you might as well look into any Big State U college town in the South. If you don't mind living in Florida, Gainesville isn't a horror. You're an hour and a bit from the beach, there's nearby springs to play in locally.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:37 PM on March 22, 2005
Response by poster: Wow, I did the FindMySpot thing and Gainesville, FL was #1. After seeing the recommendation, I checked out some info online and it definitely seems like it's right up my alley. Anyone have first hand experiences to report from this town?
I agree with widdershins, I think a road trip is in order. Thanks for all the great answers everyone! I'm not going to mark any as "best" since it's such an opinion thing, but I appreciate all of them!
posted by knave at 3:07 PM on March 22, 2005
I agree with widdershins, I think a road trip is in order. Thanks for all the great answers everyone! I'm not going to mark any as "best" since it's such an opinion thing, but I appreciate all of them!
posted by knave at 3:07 PM on March 22, 2005
Gainesville is a sucking hole, IMHO. It's composed entirely of obnoxious college students and 'Deliverance'-style rednecks. (I'll probably catch many shades of shit from anti-elitists, but I'm sorry, I really hate Gainesville. And not just because my brother went to FSU.) However, my hometown of Sarasota, FL on the Gulf Coast three hours from Gainesville meets all of your criteria, with the exception of a growingly pricey housing market. The beaches alone make the cost premium worthwhile, however. Though the traffic situation is starting to suck.
posted by logovisual at 3:17 PM on March 22, 2005
posted by logovisual at 3:17 PM on March 22, 2005
Response by poster: Gainesville is a sucking hole, IMHO. It's composed entirely of obnoxious college students and 'Deliverance'-style rednecks.
This is why statistics and web sites can't tell the whole story. Thanks for the info, first hand accounts are the best. :) I am looking at Sarasota, now, too.
posted by knave at 3:23 PM on March 22, 2005
This is why statistics and web sites can't tell the whole story. Thanks for the info, first hand accounts are the best. :) I am looking at Sarasota, now, too.
posted by knave at 3:23 PM on March 22, 2005
The South Oregon Coast region fits many if not most of your criteria. Warm, friendly, coast, good people. I don't live there, but visit often. Not sure of the jobs v. cost of living balance, but I don't think it's too bad once you get off the beach.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:35 PM on March 22, 2005
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:35 PM on March 22, 2005
Denver is definitely worth checking out. I lived there for six years until life took me to Baltimore (has the ring of an euphemism for something unpleasant, no?). The climate and culture of the city are both wonderful. Good music, great food, the best independent and used book stores going, etc.
Housing prices, however, will not be cheap. Those charming Arts & Crafts Movement bungalows were going for north of $300K when I lived there. We didn't bother asking on the Victorians. Your mileage may vary.
Also jobs in the tech field, according to my friends who still reside there, are still somewhat scarce. Denver was one of the last large areas to feel the recession, and is also one of the last to start re-emerging from it. It has, historically speaking, been a very boom or bust economy. If you visit however, you will probably love it. Most do. Good luck.
posted by Verdant at 4:09 PM on March 22, 2005
Housing prices, however, will not be cheap. Those charming Arts & Crafts Movement bungalows were going for north of $300K when I lived there. We didn't bother asking on the Victorians. Your mileage may vary.
Also jobs in the tech field, according to my friends who still reside there, are still somewhat scarce. Denver was one of the last large areas to feel the recession, and is also one of the last to start re-emerging from it. It has, historically speaking, been a very boom or bust economy. If you visit however, you will probably love it. Most do. Good luck.
posted by Verdant at 4:09 PM on March 22, 2005
I've never been, but I've heard good things about Dallas. I've heard a lot of good things about Mobile, Alabama, too, but also never been there. I've only been through (not really to) Baton Rouge, but I know a few librarians at the university who really like it. Hell, New Orleans might be nice; I can't remember what it's like, though; just that I had fun there.
One of my best friends loves Sacramento and will never, ever, ever move.
San Antonio is awesome; if I were going to move back to Texas, that's where I'd go.
Unless things have changed in the 5 years since I lived in Austin, I would say that it most certainly does not have a low cost of living. Compared to NYC and the bay area, yes, but not really much of anyplace else. Austin's alright, but it's not nearly as cool as everyone would have you believe.
posted by willpie at 4:14 PM on March 22, 2005
One of my best friends loves Sacramento and will never, ever, ever move.
San Antonio is awesome; if I were going to move back to Texas, that's where I'd go.
Unless things have changed in the 5 years since I lived in Austin, I would say that it most certainly does not have a low cost of living. Compared to NYC and the bay area, yes, but not really much of anyplace else. Austin's alright, but it's not nearly as cool as everyone would have you believe.
posted by willpie at 4:14 PM on March 22, 2005
Hey, we do have earthquakes (just got done shaking)
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/recenteqsUS/Quakes/ci14133232.htm
posted by jonah at 4:22 PM on March 22, 2005
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/recenteqsUS/Quakes/ci14133232.htm
posted by jonah at 4:22 PM on March 22, 2005
My contribution is for Savannah, Georgia. (Though I would highly suggest looking into living on the islands - 20 minutes away, tops - instead of downtown due to price.)
posted by itchie at 4:29 PM on March 22, 2005
posted by itchie at 4:29 PM on March 22, 2005
The Diablo Valley in CA is about 1/2 an hour east of the SF bay. It's well-connected by freeway and train to the rest of the Bay Area and San Francisco.
It's warmer and much cheaper than SF and most of the Bay. It is also more rednecked than the rest of the Bay Area. But it all depends on what your tolerances are. There certainly are rednecked people out there, but it's not a very white area overall, and like I said it's only 1/2 an hour from San Francisco, so in the end it doesn't exactly have a Red State feel.
Technology companies are locating there more and more, and there are lots of commutable job centers. It has a suburban feel and lots to do outdoors. There are pockets of it that are really sweet, actually, and others that will be sweet in 10 years. There is also a fair amount of poverty, too. As others have said, no place is perfect. But to get a good balance of everything you want, you need to look in the borderlands between highly-developed and prohibitively expensive places like SF and abject shitholes. The Diablo Valley is such a middle ground now.
posted by scarabic at 4:31 PM on March 22, 2005
It's warmer and much cheaper than SF and most of the Bay. It is also more rednecked than the rest of the Bay Area. But it all depends on what your tolerances are. There certainly are rednecked people out there, but it's not a very white area overall, and like I said it's only 1/2 an hour from San Francisco, so in the end it doesn't exactly have a Red State feel.
Technology companies are locating there more and more, and there are lots of commutable job centers. It has a suburban feel and lots to do outdoors. There are pockets of it that are really sweet, actually, and others that will be sweet in 10 years. There is also a fair amount of poverty, too. As others have said, no place is perfect. But to get a good balance of everything you want, you need to look in the borderlands between highly-developed and prohibitively expensive places like SF and abject shitholes. The Diablo Valley is such a middle ground now.
posted by scarabic at 4:31 PM on March 22, 2005
Perhaps you should consider Reno Nevada..... We have two houses, one in Santa Rosa, California (an hour north of SF) and one we are building in Reno. I like both. People from California are a bit suspicious of Reno, but we like it!
House prices are about 40% lower in Reno and there are some software jobs (particularly in gaming!). Culture is...mixed, but the California influence is growing.
I ride motorcycles too and Reno is great for that 8 months of the year. Snow is infrequent, but skiing is close. Just a thought...
posted by Instrumental at 4:58 PM on March 22, 2005
House prices are about 40% lower in Reno and there are some software jobs (particularly in gaming!). Culture is...mixed, but the California influence is growing.
I ride motorcycles too and Reno is great for that 8 months of the year. Snow is infrequent, but skiing is close. Just a thought...
posted by Instrumental at 4:58 PM on March 22, 2005
I have *the perfect* place for you knave. I lived there myself for a few years. First, let me tell you about it. It is warm (perfectly warm) 365 days a year. (Although, once every many years their can be a really, really wicked storm.) The cost of living, by many measures, is extremely low. Although certain types of things are expensive (food) if you keep your life simple you can get by super cheap. The roads, for motorcycling, are incredible... twisty, no trucks, and with mind-blowing vistas from each new turn. The culture is a mix of people who love limin, incredible west indians, zany eccentrics, artists, libertarian drop outs, extreme capitalists, and bums (who like to ride motorcycles etc. all day and work very little.) (A few thieves and pirates, but I say that as a term of endearment.) The nature, scenery, ocean is the very heart of the life. And jobs? If you have a modicum of talent for self-promotion, and are not dependant on corporate masters to dole out work for you, if you can get scrappy and talk your way into the office of an extreme capitalist, there is plenty of computer programming work around. If not, you can always sling drinks from a salty bar. And yes, this place *is* in the United States, just sort of irregularly: St. Thomas, USVI. Because it is part of the US (a territory (USVI = U.S. Virgin Islands)) everything is the same as in the states in terms of currency, work rules etc. The only hassle is learning to drive on the left side of the road. Let me know if that is where you end up, I can give you a few more particulars to make the move easier.
posted by wtfwjd? at 5:14 PM on March 22, 2005
posted by wtfwjd? at 5:14 PM on March 22, 2005
Anyone have first hand experiences to report from this town?
I went to high school there, and my mom still lives there. Whaddaya want to know?
It's not a nightmare or anything. It's not someplace I'd move back to, but your preferences are not mine; I've grown very tired of boringly mild dreary brown winters mixed with way-too-goddam-hot summers, and the pinhead quotient anywhere in Florida is just waaay too high.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:32 PM on March 22, 2005
I went to high school there, and my mom still lives there. Whaddaya want to know?
It's not a nightmare or anything. It's not someplace I'd move back to, but your preferences are not mine; I've grown very tired of boringly mild dreary brown winters mixed with way-too-goddam-hot summers, and the pinhead quotient anywhere in Florida is just waaay too high.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:32 PM on March 22, 2005
Some people might kill me for saying this, but Salt Lake City,UT is heaven to me. I live and work downtown and can be skiing or rock climbing (or mountain biking or hiking or fishing if you wish) in 20 minutes. I bought a house 3 years ago downtown for $130,000. The computer jobs market is pretty good. There is a fair amount of diversity and culture downtown if you're willing to look for it. And it's easy to be a big fish in a small pond in whatever circles you choose.
If you can't handle the mormons and liquor laws, then that's fine for us. We like it just the way it is.
posted by trbrts at 6:11 PM on March 22, 2005
If you can't handle the mormons and liquor laws, then that's fine for us. We like it just the way it is.
posted by trbrts at 6:11 PM on March 22, 2005
Phoenix, man... it ain't cool, but it's easy living. I dunno what kind of programmer you are, but I moved here a year and a half ago and found a web development job in 4 days. There are tons of active lists for techies (linux/php/java/professional networking/etc...) which makes it easy to investigate the market before you move.
Housing is cheap but seems to be going up rapidly in price. (The wife 'n' I just bought our first house.) Rent remains affordable.
Now, this is a bigass city and there are good pockets and bad pockets. The east side is the best side... Tempe, Chandler, Scottsdale all have good cultural things going on. The west side is where all the bad people live.
If you like to play outside, this is the place. It was in the low 80's today... sunny and warm. Winter here pretty much rules... and while the summers are unbelievably brutal, one can learn to adapt. (It's a dry heat... cliched, but true.) Motorcycles are everywhere and are allowed in the HOV lanes... heck, Sonny Barger (of Hells Angels fame) lives out here now.
Rocky Pt, Mexico is about 3 hours away, so that's where folks escape to for an ocean fix. Skiing is about two hours north in Flagstaff.
That said, I love the desert. You can get as lost as you want out in the Arizona wilderness, but even locally there are tons of nice escapes. (I run in Papago park every day, for instance... and there are canal trails that go all over the city.)
posted by ph00dz at 7:03 PM on March 22, 2005
Housing is cheap but seems to be going up rapidly in price. (The wife 'n' I just bought our first house.) Rent remains affordable.
Now, this is a bigass city and there are good pockets and bad pockets. The east side is the best side... Tempe, Chandler, Scottsdale all have good cultural things going on. The west side is where all the bad people live.
If you like to play outside, this is the place. It was in the low 80's today... sunny and warm. Winter here pretty much rules... and while the summers are unbelievably brutal, one can learn to adapt. (It's a dry heat... cliched, but true.) Motorcycles are everywhere and are allowed in the HOV lanes... heck, Sonny Barger (of Hells Angels fame) lives out here now.
Rocky Pt, Mexico is about 3 hours away, so that's where folks escape to for an ocean fix. Skiing is about two hours north in Flagstaff.
That said, I love the desert. You can get as lost as you want out in the Arizona wilderness, but even locally there are tons of nice escapes. (I run in Papago park every day, for instance... and there are canal trails that go all over the city.)
posted by ph00dz at 7:03 PM on March 22, 2005
New Orleans--very cheap, warm (altho muggy), cool people, gulf, art scene, incredible food...
posted by amberglow at 8:08 PM on March 22, 2005
posted by amberglow at 8:08 PM on March 22, 2005
What about Tucson, AZ? And yes, New Orleans ...
I live in Austin, already recommended, and granted it's the most liberal spot in Texas, but you get exposed to plenty of conservative folk. I like political diversity -- it's galvanizing.
posted by kmel at 8:23 PM on March 22, 2005
I live in Austin, already recommended, and granted it's the most liberal spot in Texas, but you get exposed to plenty of conservative folk. I like political diversity -- it's galvanizing.
posted by kmel at 8:23 PM on March 22, 2005
I'm bias, I live in Austin, but from what said you are looking for, you may want to research the city.
The cost of living is higher than other areas of Texas and lower than the Northeast. Warm weather? Becareful what you ask for. If you dislike winter, Austin is a great place. Summer can be difficult during August and not as humid as Houston or D.C. Culture? Plenty and it is diverse. Cool and open people? Yes, Austin is a liberal community; very liberal compared with the rest of Texas. People generally look/style how they are comfortable and couples/partners are diverse. Jobs for computer programmers? Yes. Nature/scenery/ocean? Yes, many parks and trees, yes, hills, lakes, and creeks, and for beaches, Corpus is 3 hours away and Padre is 5-6 hours away. Austin has changed much during the past 10 years, but the aspects you are looking for remain, in addition to its music scene.
posted by quam at 8:39 PM on March 22, 2005
The cost of living is higher than other areas of Texas and lower than the Northeast. Warm weather? Becareful what you ask for. If you dislike winter, Austin is a great place. Summer can be difficult during August and not as humid as Houston or D.C. Culture? Plenty and it is diverse. Cool and open people? Yes, Austin is a liberal community; very liberal compared with the rest of Texas. People generally look/style how they are comfortable and couples/partners are diverse. Jobs for computer programmers? Yes. Nature/scenery/ocean? Yes, many parks and trees, yes, hills, lakes, and creeks, and for beaches, Corpus is 3 hours away and Padre is 5-6 hours away. Austin has changed much during the past 10 years, but the aspects you are looking for remain, in addition to its music scene.
posted by quam at 8:39 PM on March 22, 2005
Arcata, CA might work. It's not terribly warm - but never particularly cold. It's very progressive, lots of good bookstores, cultural stuff.
Mostly I just thought of it because it's as cheap as hell. I lived out in the woods by there for a year. I paid 500 a month to rent a 5 bedroom house in the middle of redwoods, within a couple miles of the ocean.
Available jobs... um, well if you like to chop down trees or complain about people chopping down trees your set. Or grow pot (about 50% of the economy of humboldt county is drugs)
Yeah, so there's no way you can live there and work - i just took a non-working sabbatical there for a year. Kinda miss it.
posted by muddylemon at 9:34 PM on March 22, 2005
Mostly I just thought of it because it's as cheap as hell. I lived out in the woods by there for a year. I paid 500 a month to rent a 5 bedroom house in the middle of redwoods, within a couple miles of the ocean.
Available jobs... um, well if you like to chop down trees or complain about people chopping down trees your set. Or grow pot (about 50% of the economy of humboldt county is drugs)
Yeah, so there's no way you can live there and work - i just took a non-working sabbatical there for a year. Kinda miss it.
posted by muddylemon at 9:34 PM on March 22, 2005
I think Phoenix is a hole, but that's just my opinion. I think Albuquerque has a lot of what you're looking for and with Santa Fe less than an hour away you've got enough culture to keep your interest.
I bought a 1850 sq. foot house with a pool here five years ago for $115k. Granted, housing costs have risen, but they are still very affordable. Rents are really affordable too (you can find a decent place for $350 and a really nice place for around $500), but with homes so reasonable it might make more sense to own if you're going to be here for more than three years.
The sun shines some ridiculous number (I think it's around 315) of days per year. It's cold (if you can call highs in the upper 30s/40s cold) for like a month and a half. Motorcyclist ride year round!
Albuquerque and Santa Fe are both quite liberal, although Santa Fe is much more so.
The company I work for was always having to import programmers from the Bay Area when we were doing in house development, so a programming job shouldn't be too hard to find.
Let me know if you want more information.
posted by FlamingBore at 10:12 PM on March 22, 2005
I bought a 1850 sq. foot house with a pool here five years ago for $115k. Granted, housing costs have risen, but they are still very affordable. Rents are really affordable too (you can find a decent place for $350 and a really nice place for around $500), but with homes so reasonable it might make more sense to own if you're going to be here for more than three years.
The sun shines some ridiculous number (I think it's around 315) of days per year. It's cold (if you can call highs in the upper 30s/40s cold) for like a month and a half. Motorcyclist ride year round!
Albuquerque and Santa Fe are both quite liberal, although Santa Fe is much more so.
The company I work for was always having to import programmers from the Bay Area when we were doing in house development, so a programming job shouldn't be too hard to find.
Let me know if you want more information.
posted by FlamingBore at 10:12 PM on March 22, 2005
Why not flick pass the conservative-liberal polarization and Americocentric viewpoint and crank up your purchasing power on the exchange rate by opting for the perennially friendly and laidback, beachridden sunny climes down here in Sydney ?
With 5% unemployment there's a swag of jobs to choose from and I'd bet that programmers would be looked on very favourably right now in terms of visa arrangements.
Like all major cities there's a wide range on the cost of living front but affordable places are all still within an hour by public transport from the city centre and beaches. And I can personally vouch for the fanfuckingtastic roadways all over the place for motorbike riding.
Culture, food, warmth, outdoor activities, natural beauty and virtually enshrined expansive social policies.
We have it all on tap 24/7. Welcome!
[I only make this suggestion if you are looking at something for a year or 2 - besides, flying home isn't that expensive on a yearly basis. But then again, many come for a short time and stay forever!]
posted by peacay at 12:06 AM on March 23, 2005
With 5% unemployment there's a swag of jobs to choose from and I'd bet that programmers would be looked on very favourably right now in terms of visa arrangements.
Like all major cities there's a wide range on the cost of living front but affordable places are all still within an hour by public transport from the city centre and beaches. And I can personally vouch for the fanfuckingtastic roadways all over the place for motorbike riding.
Culture, food, warmth, outdoor activities, natural beauty and virtually enshrined expansive social policies.
We have it all on tap 24/7. Welcome!
[I only make this suggestion if you are looking at something for a year or 2 - besides, flying home isn't that expensive on a yearly basis. But then again, many come for a short time and stay forever!]
posted by peacay at 12:06 AM on March 23, 2005
Austin, TX holds my heart in its tender, musical hands.
posted by NinjaPirate at 3:06 AM on March 23, 2005
posted by NinjaPirate at 3:06 AM on March 23, 2005
I'm living in Gainesville now. I plan to get out as fast as possible.
posted by casarkos at 6:43 AM on March 23, 2005
posted by casarkos at 6:43 AM on March 23, 2005
New Orleans--very cheap, warm (altho muggy), cool people, gulf, art scene, incredible food...
I lived there for 3 years. It's a fetid swamp, from my perspective as a Jew York liberal. And it's "warm" only in deepest winter. The other 10 months, it's like being trapped in a dog's mouth.
posted by scratch at 6:52 AM on March 23, 2005
I lived there for 3 years. It's a fetid swamp, from my perspective as a Jew York liberal. And it's "warm" only in deepest winter. The other 10 months, it's like being trapped in a dog's mouth.
posted by scratch at 6:52 AM on March 23, 2005
Jacksonville aint too bad...warm, city-ish, beaches, plenty to do nature-wise, low cost-of-living, etc. I know alot of you people have some pretty intolerant ideas about the intolerant people living in the South, but I don't hang with them. Why not just avoid those idiots who live in every state?
Don't give up on North Florida. My house was 1/5th what New Englanders pay and twice as large. I work at the largest bank in the world here. I have a rich artistic life. It's not the place alot of these people say it is. Ignore the hypocrites.
posted by Dantien at 7:46 AM on March 23, 2005
Don't give up on North Florida. My house was 1/5th what New Englanders pay and twice as large. I work at the largest bank in the world here. I have a rich artistic life. It's not the place alot of these people say it is. Ignore the hypocrites.
posted by Dantien at 7:46 AM on March 23, 2005
This thread is closed to new comments.
You could try Austin, but that won't be much cheaper than RI, if any.
Or look at other college towns. Gainesville FL, or Tallahassee, but both places are kinda dumps if you see them in the cold light of day, and both are surrounded by darkest cracker-land.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:49 PM on March 22, 2005