What does "out of the fold" mean?
September 28, 2010 9:19 AM Subscribe
What does "out of the fold" mean?
A number of times over the years I have stumbled across the phrase "out of the fold". However, I am unable to find a definition of phrase, despite my best efforts.
What does "out of the fold" mean? Is there a formal definition online somewhere?
A number of times over the years I have stumbled across the phrase "out of the fold". However, I am unable to find a definition of phrase, despite my best efforts.
What does "out of the fold" mean? Is there a formal definition online somewhere?
Some context might help, but as a web developer I see "below the fold" a lot which tends to refer to the bottom half of a website, that isn't seen until you scroll - and is derived from the bottom half of a newspaper when it's folded for purchase. I'd not be surprised if it had something to do with this.
posted by backwards guitar at 9:22 AM on September 28, 2010
posted by backwards guitar at 9:22 AM on September 28, 2010
The fold in this case refers to a flock of sheep, not a fold in a piece of paper or cloth.
posted by mkb at 9:23 AM on September 28, 2010 [6 favorites]
posted by mkb at 9:23 AM on September 28, 2010 [6 favorites]
My take is that it means to be cast out.
Sheep gather in stone sheep folds for protection from the weather as a group, huddled together. To leave the protection of the fold would be a severe hardship in winter.
So my take has always been that being cast "out of the fold" denoted being rejected by the group and to face hardship alone.
posted by Argyle at 9:23 AM on September 28, 2010 [6 favorites]
Sheep gather in stone sheep folds for protection from the weather as a group, huddled together. To leave the protection of the fold would be a severe hardship in winter.
So my take has always been that being cast "out of the fold" denoted being rejected by the group and to face hardship alone.
posted by Argyle at 9:23 AM on September 28, 2010 [6 favorites]
A fold is an enclosure for sheep - in the Christian bible it is used as a metaphor for some congregation of faithful, and the second meaning seems more common nowadays.
"Out of the fold" would mean away from the flock AKA separated from the congregation in a theological sense.
posted by muddgirl at 9:23 AM on September 28, 2010
"Out of the fold" would mean away from the flock AKA separated from the congregation in a theological sense.
posted by muddgirl at 9:23 AM on September 28, 2010
The "fold" in "out of the fold" refers to a flock of sheep or a congregation of people. So, being "out of the fold" is synonymous with being lost or separated from one's group.
posted by amyms at 9:23 AM on September 28, 2010
posted by amyms at 9:23 AM on September 28, 2010
You're going to have to give some context.
One of the definitions of "fold" is "a group of people or institutions that share a common faith, belief, activity, or enthusiasm." If someone is kicked out of a club, or excommunicated by a religious group or something, you could say they were "thrown out of the fold."
posted by JohnMarston at 9:24 AM on September 28, 2010
One of the definitions of "fold" is "a group of people or institutions that share a common faith, belief, activity, or enthusiasm." If someone is kicked out of a club, or excommunicated by a religious group or something, you could say they were "thrown out of the fold."
posted by JohnMarston at 9:24 AM on September 28, 2010
Note that a congregation doesn't have to be religious - it's really just a group of like-minded individuals. So someone could be "out of the fold" at work or in a social group.
posted by muddgirl at 9:25 AM on September 28, 2010
posted by muddgirl at 9:25 AM on September 28, 2010
Fold is another word for flock or herd. When somebody is out of the fold, they've done something to distinguish or distance themselves from a group to which they used to (or should) belong. A random example that springs to mind: "Many progressives see Senator Lieberman, who often sides with Republicans on issues of national security, as outside the Democratic fold."
posted by Bromius at 9:25 AM on September 28, 2010
posted by Bromius at 9:25 AM on September 28, 2010
Fold is not exactly synonymous with flock or herd. Rather, it is the enclosure in which a flock of sheep is kept when it is not grazing—the place where it is protected. Therefore, to be cast out of the fold is not only to be thrust from the group, but also to be unprotected.
posted by ocherdraco at 9:47 AM on September 28, 2010
posted by ocherdraco at 9:47 AM on September 28, 2010
The King James Version of the Bible:
1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.posted by zamboni at 10:02 AM on September 28, 2010
…
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
"Into the fold" is a common phrase, often used like "X was welcomed back into the fold after apologizing for his transgression." (Can't find an actual usage example by quick googling, but it is common enough.)
Presumably, one would have to be out of the fold to be welcomed back into it.
posted by SuperNova at 11:29 AM on September 28, 2010
Presumably, one would have to be out of the fold to be welcomed back into it.
posted by SuperNova at 11:29 AM on September 28, 2010
Another example, from Lord Byron:
The Assyrian came down like the wolf on the fold,posted by lex mercatoria at 11:30 AM on September 28, 2010
And his cohorts were gleaming in purple and gold;
And the sheen of their spears was like stars on the sea,
When the blue wave rolls nightly on deep Galilee.
[and so on ...]
It's also virtually the same meaning and etymology as the phrase "beyond the pale."
posted by ErikaB at 2:10 PM on September 28, 2010
posted by ErikaB at 2:10 PM on September 28, 2010
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posted by smitt at 9:21 AM on September 28, 2010