The only thing harder than breaking up
September 21, 2010 8:46 PM Subscribe
Working with an ex. We just got out of each other's space. Now our only point of interaction is work. It is awkward and uncomfortable, not just because of the obvious but also because it seems he's going out of his way to be unpleasant. The job is great, the pay is amazing, and the company is awesome. I've been there for a year. He's been there for a year and three months. Quitting is not an option for either of us.
We broke up in March and fumbled at "just friends" for months before coming to the mutual realization that shit was just not happening. We work in the same (three person, including the two of us) department. In the same open cube. Moving seats or to another floor is not an option. There's only one floor and one giant room.
I'm pulling off cordial and professional friendly pretty well, I think. He's not even trying. There's a monthly meeting that all members of our department as well as the CEO and sales managers are required to attend. He runs it. He sent out an invite. I was not included on the invite list. Our department is incredibly behind on paperwork. I tried to talk to him and our other team member about it, to set up a game plan: I had to call his name four times to get him to turn his head. Slightly. He wouldn't look at me, kept his back to me, and refused to answer a direct question. In front of co-workers. After work chit-chatting with our superior and few co-workers, I make a joke, he tells me (voice raised, with eye contact) to shut up. In front of my boss.
This is embarrassing, stupid, and upsetting. Our latest interaction almost had me crying at my desk. I know, from having been in a two year relationship with this man, that if I attempt to pull him aside and talk to him, I won't even be able to get through the pulling aside part. Never mind actually having a rational conversation.He'll refuse to even look at me. I don't want to go to our boss with this because 1. we work with a bunch of bros and both my boss and ex are among them. And 2. I don't want him to get fired or even reprimanded. My current plan has just been to be unfailing polite. He continues to be openly hostile. My current plan isn't really working. What do I do?
We broke up in March and fumbled at "just friends" for months before coming to the mutual realization that shit was just not happening. We work in the same (three person, including the two of us) department. In the same open cube. Moving seats or to another floor is not an option. There's only one floor and one giant room.
I'm pulling off cordial and professional friendly pretty well, I think. He's not even trying. There's a monthly meeting that all members of our department as well as the CEO and sales managers are required to attend. He runs it. He sent out an invite. I was not included on the invite list. Our department is incredibly behind on paperwork. I tried to talk to him and our other team member about it, to set up a game plan: I had to call his name four times to get him to turn his head. Slightly. He wouldn't look at me, kept his back to me, and refused to answer a direct question. In front of co-workers. After work chit-chatting with our superior and few co-workers, I make a joke, he tells me (voice raised, with eye contact) to shut up. In front of my boss.
This is embarrassing, stupid, and upsetting. Our latest interaction almost had me crying at my desk. I know, from having been in a two year relationship with this man, that if I attempt to pull him aside and talk to him, I won't even be able to get through the pulling aside part. Never mind actually having a rational conversation.He'll refuse to even look at me. I don't want to go to our boss with this because 1. we work with a bunch of bros and both my boss and ex are among them. And 2. I don't want him to get fired or even reprimanded. My current plan has just been to be unfailing polite. He continues to be openly hostile. My current plan isn't really working. What do I do?
Response by poster: I forgot to mention: it's a realllllllly small company. ~25 employees, 5 'executives,' no HR.
posted by chichimimizu at 8:53 PM on September 21, 2010
posted by chichimimizu at 8:53 PM on September 21, 2010
Best answer: Forget about protecting him. Next time he pulls that crap call him on it. Tell him he can either choose to be professional or you and your boss and he are going to have a come-to-Jesus meeting.
You are all there to work and get a job done. He does not have the luxury of indulging in this petty crap. Continue to take the high road as you have done but treat him the same as you would anyone else acting like a petulant two year old. Forget the fact he's an ex.
And forget acting "friendly" and just be firm. Not impolite, just firm.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 8:59 PM on September 21, 2010 [27 favorites]
You are all there to work and get a job done. He does not have the luxury of indulging in this petty crap. Continue to take the high road as you have done but treat him the same as you would anyone else acting like a petulant two year old. Forget the fact he's an ex.
And forget acting "friendly" and just be firm. Not impolite, just firm.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 8:59 PM on September 21, 2010 [27 favorites]
You need to confide in at least one person, and you need to get a beard. It may be the same person. The person who you confide in needs to help by running interference - even if they don't tell you about the meeting, they can at least tell you what happened at it. But ideally they will be hip to the ex's bullshit and help.
I did this when I worked at 2 different companies where there was that ONE guy who just would not give me any respect. I finally got a trusted coworker to be my beard. If we were going to a meeting and dbag would be there, I would invite Trusted Coworker to be there and Trusted Coworker would be the one to say, "Oh, and Dbag, I need you to take action item X." Dbag, who previously did all but tell me to fuck off when I asked him to do the same thing, is suddenly all too glad to perform this task for Trusted Coworker.
If you honestly have no one there that can help you with this, then the only other thing you can do is start putting everything in writing. Email, and find reasons to cc other people (e.g., create a list of action items that belong to more than one person). You know when the meetings are, start walking around and sticking your head in the door - "Oh, I was looking for Bob and someone told me he was in the Widget Meeting, I guess I didn't get the meeting invite." and just walk in and sit down.
Stay civil. Stay smiley. Cry in the ladies' room.
posted by micawber at 9:01 PM on September 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
I did this when I worked at 2 different companies where there was that ONE guy who just would not give me any respect. I finally got a trusted coworker to be my beard. If we were going to a meeting and dbag would be there, I would invite Trusted Coworker to be there and Trusted Coworker would be the one to say, "Oh, and Dbag, I need you to take action item X." Dbag, who previously did all but tell me to fuck off when I asked him to do the same thing, is suddenly all too glad to perform this task for Trusted Coworker.
If you honestly have no one there that can help you with this, then the only other thing you can do is start putting everything in writing. Email, and find reasons to cc other people (e.g., create a list of action items that belong to more than one person). You know when the meetings are, start walking around and sticking your head in the door - "Oh, I was looking for Bob and someone told me he was in the Widget Meeting, I guess I didn't get the meeting invite." and just walk in and sit down.
Stay civil. Stay smiley. Cry in the ladies' room.
posted by micawber at 9:01 PM on September 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
P.S. I suspect he is trying to get you to quit by making it uncomfortable for you to be there. It needs to be pointed out he is making the workplace uncomfortable for a whole slew of people. Again, petulant two year old. That crap does not need to be catered to.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 9:02 PM on September 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 9:02 PM on September 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
St. Alia is right. You continue to be unfailingly polite, but be firm and direct with him when he is being unprofessional. No matter how small your office, your boss needs to know about this -- I know you said he witnessed at least one instance, but you should really talk to your boss privately, directly and with detail. Stick to the easiest to explain issues, like, "He doesn't cc me on important emails," and things like that. You should also be keeping a log of every instance, in case the "bros" try to fire you.
posted by BlahLaLa at 9:08 PM on September 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by BlahLaLa at 9:08 PM on September 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
Your ex sounds like a real gem. And by "gem" I mean "immature little brat."
My first response would be "you need to pull him aside" but... that's not an option. My next suggestion would be to talk to your boss... but you've also nixed that. But, seeing as how your current plan isn't working, I think you need to re-examine your options. Maybe you don't have to pull him aside or talk to the boss, but call him out when he's being openly hostile. "I don't appreciate your open hostility, John." "Please don't raise your voice at me." "John, I'd appreciate it if you could answer the question I've asked you." If that doesn't do anything, then I really do think you should either pull him aside or talk to your boss, whichever you think is easier. Since he's apparently such a little kid that he wouldn't even look at you if you pulled him aside, I'd lean towards talking to your boss. If quitting really isn't an option, then maybe a reprimand will help him pull the stick out of his ass and get him to move on and resume functioning like a mature adult (assuming he was capable of this before you broke up).
posted by adamp88 at 9:08 PM on September 21, 2010
My first response would be "you need to pull him aside" but... that's not an option. My next suggestion would be to talk to your boss... but you've also nixed that. But, seeing as how your current plan isn't working, I think you need to re-examine your options. Maybe you don't have to pull him aside or talk to the boss, but call him out when he's being openly hostile. "I don't appreciate your open hostility, John." "Please don't raise your voice at me." "John, I'd appreciate it if you could answer the question I've asked you." If that doesn't do anything, then I really do think you should either pull him aside or talk to your boss, whichever you think is easier. Since he's apparently such a little kid that he wouldn't even look at you if you pulled him aside, I'd lean towards talking to your boss. If quitting really isn't an option, then maybe a reprimand will help him pull the stick out of his ass and get him to move on and resume functioning like a mature adult (assuming he was capable of this before you broke up).
posted by adamp88 at 9:08 PM on September 21, 2010
nthing St. Alia. His not including you on the invite list for a required meeting is basically him trying to get you in trouble for failing to show up to said meeting. Adults do not behave like this in the workplace. If he continues this behavior, call him out on it, every time. Be firm, but neutral, not angry. If he ignores you when you ask him a direct question, repeat it. If he tells you to shut up in front of coworkers, ignore him and keep talking. Soon, it will become apparent to your boss and colleagues that he is acting like a child. And definitely document every incident, because this is bordering on creating a hostile workplace, in my opinion.
posted by bedhead at 9:16 PM on September 21, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by bedhead at 9:16 PM on September 21, 2010 [4 favorites]
I would be both openly pleasant and firm when called for. If he pulls shit in public, it calls for a firm equal and opposite public response. He tells you to shut up, you ask to him to please act a little more professionally -- in front of everyone else. Then after a few times of this, when you have him isolated or alone, you tell him that this can be done the easy way of both being civil or the hard way and the hard way, he is looking like an ass. This will not change overnight. This is going to be a months long process so mentally prepare for the war and expect several battles. Over time he will either find something else to interest him (another girl, an outside activity or whatever) or he will be pulled aside by someone and told that he is being an ass and his plan to piss you off so much you quit is not only not professional, it is not working and he better knock it off. Document everytime he is being unprofessional and inappropriate for your records.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:23 PM on September 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:23 PM on September 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
What happened when he told you to shut up, in front of your boss?
posted by nomadicink at 9:24 PM on September 21, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by nomadicink at 9:24 PM on September 21, 2010 [3 favorites]
This book, Living with the Passive Aggressive Man, may be helpful to you.
From the book jacket: "[The author] explores the various ways men become passive-aggressive and advises women on how to deal with husbands, lovers, bosses, colleagues and employees who display these traits. From his own practice Wetzler draws numerous examples of how these men "drive women crazy," from "forgetting" an important meeting to sulking to delivering a barbed compliment."
posted by Ashley801 at 9:25 PM on September 21, 2010 [3 favorites]
From the book jacket: "[The author] explores the various ways men become passive-aggressive and advises women on how to deal with husbands, lovers, bosses, colleagues and employees who display these traits. From his own practice Wetzler draws numerous examples of how these men "drive women crazy," from "forgetting" an important meeting to sulking to delivering a barbed compliment."
posted by Ashley801 at 9:25 PM on September 21, 2010 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Awkward silence followed by my boss laughing nervously, my getting embarrassed, and one of my co-workers going, "Whoooooa, having a bad day, bro?"
posted by chichimimizu at 9:25 PM on September 21, 2010
posted by chichimimizu at 9:25 PM on September 21, 2010
What the fuck is your boss doing during all of this? Subtle workplace powerplays are one thing, but telling you to "shut up" verges on sexual harassment. Document this behaviour, talk to a lawyer, and then, and ask your boss for help. Be prepared for your boss to try to fire you.
But document, talk to the lawyer, and try to spin it as sexual harassment, which this sort of "bro" behaviour most certainly is. While your boss probably will not fire your ex, they may pay you fuck off money.
posted by KokuRyu at 9:25 PM on September 21, 2010 [6 favorites]
But document, talk to the lawyer, and try to spin it as sexual harassment, which this sort of "bro" behaviour most certainly is. While your boss probably will not fire your ex, they may pay you fuck off money.
posted by KokuRyu at 9:25 PM on September 21, 2010 [6 favorites]
Oh yeah, and if this jerk continues this sort of harassment in front of other people, say in a loud voice: "You are making me feel uncomfortable, and I do not like your comments." Document this too, plus whoever was in the room.
You, this sort of plain speaking may be enough to get him to change his behaviour. Communicating clearly and effectively, with no between-the-lines stuff, can be very effective.
posted by KokuRyu at 9:28 PM on September 21, 2010
You, this sort of plain speaking may be enough to get him to change his behaviour. Communicating clearly and effectively, with no between-the-lines stuff, can be very effective.
posted by KokuRyu at 9:28 PM on September 21, 2010
Is your boss his boss?
posted by nomadicink at 9:32 PM on September 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by nomadicink at 9:32 PM on September 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: When there's something seriously interfering with your ability to do your job, and it's not your fault, that's when it's time to have a private talk with your boss.
Give your boss the benefit of the doubt: you don't know that he'll be too biased to take your concerns seriously. His #1 interest is in having a productive company, not in being always friendly and forgiving toward your ex. When you're the boss, you know it's your job sometimes to be a hard-ass even with people you generally get along with.
Of course, I wouldn't give him all the second-by-second accounts you've given here. I'm sure you can finesse it so it's not so much, "My ex is being openly hostile and I've ended up crying at my desk," etc. Just express that you're seriously concerned about how this is affecting your ability to effectively do your work. Don't focus on criticizing your ex.
posted by John Cohen at 9:32 PM on September 21, 2010
Give your boss the benefit of the doubt: you don't know that he'll be too biased to take your concerns seriously. His #1 interest is in having a productive company, not in being always friendly and forgiving toward your ex. When you're the boss, you know it's your job sometimes to be a hard-ass even with people you generally get along with.
Of course, I wouldn't give him all the second-by-second accounts you've given here. I'm sure you can finesse it so it's not so much, "My ex is being openly hostile and I've ended up crying at my desk," etc. Just express that you're seriously concerned about how this is affecting your ability to effectively do your work. Don't focus on criticizing your ex.
posted by John Cohen at 9:32 PM on September 21, 2010
This is embarrassing, stupid, and upsetting.
Keep in mind that, although his behavior is upsetting to you, HE is the one who is being embarrassing and stupid. Not to mention unprofessional: he won't answer a work question in front of coworkers! he told you to shut up in front of your mutual boss! I'm sure his conduct is disturbing, but if he's trying to get back at you, he is doing a wretched job: he's just making himself look like a sulky teenager.
Personally, I would call him out on his behavior in groups as often as you can, as nicely and as professionally as possible: "Ex-Chichimimizu, you didn't answer my question about the schedule. Do you need more time to prepare? Let me know if I can help pull that together for you." "I'm surprised that you just told me to shut up. Do you need to take a break, Ex-Chichimimizu? We can meet at one instead."
If you don't do something about this now, his bad behavior and your lack of response could become the "new normal." I work with some jerks who conducted their own reign of terror for a couple of years; it took new people coming into the team saying, "What is that person's problem?" to force the issue.
posted by sfkiddo at 9:35 PM on September 21, 2010 [9 favorites]
Keep in mind that, although his behavior is upsetting to you, HE is the one who is being embarrassing and stupid. Not to mention unprofessional: he won't answer a work question in front of coworkers! he told you to shut up in front of your mutual boss! I'm sure his conduct is disturbing, but if he's trying to get back at you, he is doing a wretched job: he's just making himself look like a sulky teenager.
Personally, I would call him out on his behavior in groups as often as you can, as nicely and as professionally as possible: "Ex-Chichimimizu, you didn't answer my question about the schedule. Do you need more time to prepare? Let me know if I can help pull that together for you." "I'm surprised that you just told me to shut up. Do you need to take a break, Ex-Chichimimizu? We can meet at one instead."
If you don't do something about this now, his bad behavior and your lack of response could become the "new normal." I work with some jerks who conducted their own reign of terror for a couple of years; it took new people coming into the team saying, "What is that person's problem?" to force the issue.
posted by sfkiddo at 9:35 PM on September 21, 2010 [9 favorites]
Also, who's in charge of your 3 person department? Baring that, who has the most senority?
posted by nomadicink at 9:37 PM on September 21, 2010
posted by nomadicink at 9:37 PM on September 21, 2010
One more thing: while it is good to document as others have mentioned, a key part of my strategy is to be professional while expressing concern over his problems: are you not prepared? are you having a bad day and can't handle your emotions? are you unorganized in what you're trying to say?
Not necessarily straightforward, but all's fair in love and corporations.
posted by sfkiddo at 9:48 PM on September 21, 2010 [10 favorites]
Not necessarily straightforward, but all's fair in love and corporations.
posted by sfkiddo at 9:48 PM on September 21, 2010 [10 favorites]
Do not spin it as sexual harassment please. Don't abuse the system that way. KokuRyu, no. That dilutes real sexual harassment that happens at workplaces. You need to address the breakup and have a talk about it again. You've gotten over it but he hasn't. Keep cornering him until he breaks down. Because this is your livelihood and the office romance clearly affected you working together. He's reeling and still hurt. You must take that into account before any behavior issues can be patched up. Yes, he's acting like a brat, but you dated him and you need to deal with the consequences. Sucks but it's just an honest opinion.
posted by InterestedInKnowing at 10:13 PM on September 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by InterestedInKnowing at 10:13 PM on September 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
I wouldn't bother calling him out. Just let him keep on; it sounds like he's angling to get fucking fired acting like that in the the work place. Did you turn to your coworkers each time and give the "what the fuck?" gesture?
I'd see if it dies down after a week or so, but if this is happening with witnesses and causing awkwardness in the workplace, your supervisor needs to start earning his boss money. Can you go to him and ask, "Hey boss, can you ask dude what his fucking problem is? It's very difficult to work with him." If two out of three people on a team can't get along, one has to go, and it sounds like he's providing plenty of very visible reason why that person should be him.
posted by ctmf at 10:28 PM on September 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
I'd see if it dies down after a week or so, but if this is happening with witnesses and causing awkwardness in the workplace, your supervisor needs to start earning his boss money. Can you go to him and ask, "Hey boss, can you ask dude what his fucking problem is? It's very difficult to work with him." If two out of three people on a team can't get along, one has to go, and it sounds like he's providing plenty of very visible reason why that person should be him.
posted by ctmf at 10:28 PM on September 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
If you speak to your boss, define this person as a coworker or colleague, not your ex. Your issues with him at work are the way he is behaving towards you as someone you work with, not as an ex boyfriend. Avoid giving any opening to anyone to blame this on either you or the ex for having a relationship outside of work. Do not refer to the past relationship, if anyone brings it up redirect to the fact it doesn't matter if the relationship is dead or alive; you are referring to work, and things aren't going well.
It sounds pretty simple (not easy to deal with, but simple); there is someone at work acting unprofessionally towards you and it needs to stop. His reasons don't matter, work etiquette comes first. Best of luck; one bad apple can spoil the bunch.
posted by variella at 10:41 PM on September 21, 2010 [7 favorites]
It sounds pretty simple (not easy to deal with, but simple); there is someone at work acting unprofessionally towards you and it needs to stop. His reasons don't matter, work etiquette comes first. Best of luck; one bad apple can spoil the bunch.
posted by variella at 10:41 PM on September 21, 2010 [7 favorites]
Stop feeling embarrassed when he acts inappropriately.
Stop feeling embarrassed when he acts inappropriately.
The sooner you stop reacting outside and inside exactly the way he wants you to, the sooner it will stop. Either he will get bored, reprimanded, or fired - but the sooner you stop feeding it, the sooner it ends.
Keep your nose clean. Cultivate a deep deep understanding of how badly he is making himself look. Do NOT complain about this to coworkers. Do eventually bring it up to your boss if it substantially continues to interfere with work getting done.
Never complain about him to your boss, only point out how XYZ on his part demonstrably put A task/project behind schedule or in jeopardy. Only bring up XYZ if there is a paper trail or witness corroboration.
Make it about the work. Immunize yourself emotionally (for you sanity) and professionally (for the sake of your job) by completely depersonalizing this situation.
YOU CAN DO IT.
posted by jbenben at 10:55 PM on September 21, 2010 [11 favorites]
Stop feeling embarrassed when he acts inappropriately.
The sooner you stop reacting outside and inside exactly the way he wants you to, the sooner it will stop. Either he will get bored, reprimanded, or fired - but the sooner you stop feeding it, the sooner it ends.
Keep your nose clean. Cultivate a deep deep understanding of how badly he is making himself look. Do NOT complain about this to coworkers. Do eventually bring it up to your boss if it substantially continues to interfere with work getting done.
Never complain about him to your boss, only point out how XYZ on his part demonstrably put A task/project behind schedule or in jeopardy. Only bring up XYZ if there is a paper trail or witness corroboration.
Make it about the work. Immunize yourself emotionally (for you sanity) and professionally (for the sake of your job) by completely depersonalizing this situation.
YOU CAN DO IT.
posted by jbenben at 10:55 PM on September 21, 2010 [11 favorites]
Do not spin it as sexual harassment please. Don't abuse the system that way. KokuRyu, no. That dilutes real sexual harassment that happens
This is sexual harassment. The "bros" are tolerating abusive behavior towards a woman.
posted by KokuRyu at 11:26 PM on September 21, 2010 [7 favorites]
This is sexual harassment. The "bros" are tolerating abusive behavior towards a woman.
posted by KokuRyu at 11:26 PM on September 21, 2010 [7 favorites]
The thing I'm most struck by is that other people have to be noticing this situation. Even if its the one other person in your department, or the other people being made uncomfortable in the meetings, his behavior is so obvious it would be hard to ignore. So sooner or later its going to have to be addressed because its dragging the team down.
And while he wants to make you miserable and look bad, I'd be surprised if he's not doing the opposite. He's making himself look like an ass and you're continuing to keep your cool and act professional. So when he starts up, just remind yourself that he's digging his own hole, and that this sort of behavior won't be tolerated for long.
The crappy thing about relationships of any sort is that you can't make somebody do (or not do) anything they don't want to. But you can control your reactions. And it sounds like you're doing a good job of keeping calm and acting like an adult. Even if it is stressing you out. Keep it up. If I was your boss I'd be growing increasingly annoyed with your ex and impressed with the way you are coping and continuing to do your job despite the harassment. Hopefully your boss isn't as clueless as the one in Dilbert and notices as well.
posted by gilsonal at 11:40 PM on September 21, 2010
And while he wants to make you miserable and look bad, I'd be surprised if he's not doing the opposite. He's making himself look like an ass and you're continuing to keep your cool and act professional. So when he starts up, just remind yourself that he's digging his own hole, and that this sort of behavior won't be tolerated for long.
The crappy thing about relationships of any sort is that you can't make somebody do (or not do) anything they don't want to. But you can control your reactions. And it sounds like you're doing a good job of keeping calm and acting like an adult. Even if it is stressing you out. Keep it up. If I was your boss I'd be growing increasingly annoyed with your ex and impressed with the way you are coping and continuing to do your job despite the harassment. Hopefully your boss isn't as clueless as the one in Dilbert and notices as well.
posted by gilsonal at 11:40 PM on September 21, 2010
I would do my best to just ignore the childish behaviour, and just do your work. Telling you to shut up in frongt of your boss? that makes him look terrible, and if you deal with it calmly and professionally, you end up looking pretty good. Don't take the bait, and just give him enough rope to hang himself, he's going to end up wrecking his own career, not yours, if he keeps it up.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 11:51 PM on September 21, 2010
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 11:51 PM on September 21, 2010
Best answer: Emotionally: I think there is value in registering that when people act petulantly, like a bully and so on and they seem that they can't stop themselves, they are not acting from a place of strength. Your ex is acting from a place of weakness, and somewhere I know when I do that - overstep - I'm embarrassed for myself.
I think people recognize that, and it makes them uncomfortable, which is why people avert their eyes, laugh nervously, or joke weakly, the way your boss and co-workers do. Unprovoked attacks confuse people, in a 'what's up with X?' sort of a way.
This doesn't change your behavioral response, but hopefully, it helps you recognize that when your ex does this, he's sort of telling on himself, oozing out whatever resentment or unresolved issues he obviously still has - which becomes obvious to everyone else. But you don't have to counter attack.
Strategically, I find the phrase "Is there some reason why you are behaving unprofessionally (right now)?" is a good all around go to response when people act badly. Imagine every verbal situation where someone cuts you off, or says something offensive, or acts rudely...instead of attacking them, or ignoring them, just try something like:
A-Oh shut up Susan!
B-Is there some reason why you are behaving unprofessionally right now?
A-I said shut up!
B-Still unprofessional. What's this about?
If they keep on, then usually one can end with "Look, we really need to move on" or "Look, we obviously just disagree", etc., and turn and look to whomever is leading the meeting to move on.
If the person doesn't stop this within two or three weeks and your effort to tell him to knock it off doesn't help, then you can go to your boss, just tell the facts (Bob has failed to include me on key emails, and discussed it with him, but the behavior hasn't changed. Any advice on how to address this with him? I want to be sure that I am part of meetings I am required to be at.) or.... (I've noticed that bob has behaved unprofessionally to me in meetings - he might be going through a difficult time, but my efforts to discuss this with him have not been successful. Any advice on how to handle this?), etc.
posted by anitanita at 12:18 AM on September 22, 2010 [5 favorites]
I think people recognize that, and it makes them uncomfortable, which is why people avert their eyes, laugh nervously, or joke weakly, the way your boss and co-workers do. Unprovoked attacks confuse people, in a 'what's up with X?' sort of a way.
This doesn't change your behavioral response, but hopefully, it helps you recognize that when your ex does this, he's sort of telling on himself, oozing out whatever resentment or unresolved issues he obviously still has - which becomes obvious to everyone else. But you don't have to counter attack.
Strategically, I find the phrase "Is there some reason why you are behaving unprofessionally (right now)?" is a good all around go to response when people act badly. Imagine every verbal situation where someone cuts you off, or says something offensive, or acts rudely...instead of attacking them, or ignoring them, just try something like:
A-Oh shut up Susan!
B-Is there some reason why you are behaving unprofessionally right now?
A-I said shut up!
B-Still unprofessional. What's this about?
If they keep on, then usually one can end with "Look, we really need to move on" or "Look, we obviously just disagree", etc., and turn and look to whomever is leading the meeting to move on.
If the person doesn't stop this within two or three weeks and your effort to tell him to knock it off doesn't help, then you can go to your boss, just tell the facts (Bob has failed to include me on key emails, and discussed it with him, but the behavior hasn't changed. Any advice on how to address this with him? I want to be sure that I am part of meetings I am required to be at.) or.... (I've noticed that bob has behaved unprofessionally to me in meetings - he might be going through a difficult time, but my efforts to discuss this with him have not been successful. Any advice on how to handle this?), etc.
posted by anitanita at 12:18 AM on September 22, 2010 [5 favorites]
Kokuryu, the harassment is not sexual in nature. It's simply harassment, and it's contributing significantly to a hostile work environment for chichimimizu.
Your choices, chichimimizu, are limited, and they mostly suck, as Rendus noted.
You should be firm and consistent in your response to your ex's egregious workplace behaviour, as others here have counseled. But there's no guarantee that this will do anything.
I have worked in ten, twenty, and twenty-five person workplaces before. It's simply too small a place for all of the usual workplace defenses to be available to you. And most of these small firms are closely-held (the key people at the top know each other really well, or are related by blood or marriage.)
If your ex is personally connected to those at the top, he'll have their natural sympathy on most issues like this one.
If your ex is a significant workplace contributor, it's unlikely that anyone is going to fire him unless he gives them a good reason. His petulance and childishness is most likely not going to meet that standard in this small company.
You may think that time will erode his animosity. But I don't think it will. Humans can hold a grudge a lot better than they can hold to public civility, and few things are worse than a lover scorned.
Only you can judge how much crap you're willing to put up with before you die inside.
Alternatively, you can lawyer up (after bringing it to management's attention and having them fail to implement a satisfying corrective), but you can be sure that after the courts have their say, you'll have burned all of your bridges at that company.
You've heard this before, and probably even told it to yourself before you got into a relationship with this imbecile from work. Don't shit where you eat. Your situation is exactly why the phrase was coined.
posted by dott8080 at 2:48 AM on September 22, 2010 [5 favorites]
Your choices, chichimimizu, are limited, and they mostly suck, as Rendus noted.
You should be firm and consistent in your response to your ex's egregious workplace behaviour, as others here have counseled. But there's no guarantee that this will do anything.
I have worked in ten, twenty, and twenty-five person workplaces before. It's simply too small a place for all of the usual workplace defenses to be available to you. And most of these small firms are closely-held (the key people at the top know each other really well, or are related by blood or marriage.)
If your ex is personally connected to those at the top, he'll have their natural sympathy on most issues like this one.
If your ex is a significant workplace contributor, it's unlikely that anyone is going to fire him unless he gives them a good reason. His petulance and childishness is most likely not going to meet that standard in this small company.
You may think that time will erode his animosity. But I don't think it will. Humans can hold a grudge a lot better than they can hold to public civility, and few things are worse than a lover scorned.
Only you can judge how much crap you're willing to put up with before you die inside.
Alternatively, you can lawyer up (after bringing it to management's attention and having them fail to implement a satisfying corrective), but you can be sure that after the courts have their say, you'll have burned all of your bridges at that company.
You've heard this before, and probably even told it to yourself before you got into a relationship with this imbecile from work. Don't shit where you eat. Your situation is exactly why the phrase was coined.
posted by dott8080 at 2:48 AM on September 22, 2010 [5 favorites]
What do I do?
You know him and you know what doesn't work (Pulling him aside), so do you have ideas what would possibly work with getting him to stop? Is there a particular reason he's acting this shitty, was it a really bad breakup?
If your boss is laughing nervously when he's telling you to shut up and not hauling his ass into an office to chew him out, then you have big problems (no support) and you're kinda on your own. If that's truly the case, my suggestion would be to act like a bro with him. Quit taking him seriously, that's probably partially why he's being this immature and petty. Remember how the other guy said "Whoooooa dude, bad day?" when he told you to shut up? That perfectly dismisses him, while highlighting to others what a dick he's being.
You seem like a nice, sweet woman who doesn't want to hurt anybody. He knows that and is using it against you and it will probably escalate or at least drag out longer than you can possibly imagine, he sounds that shitty. As long as you continue to seem nice and sweet and caring to him, it will continue to work. Cut it out, put on that brave public face and quit taking him seriously, because he's not worth it.
I'm not sure I'd go to higher up. A culture of bros will probably see it as "you made this mess, it's your problem" and you may be perceived as weak or troublesome in their eyes. This is completely unfair, yes, but something to consider as a possibility as you think about what your next step should be.
Be a bro and quit taking him seriously when he's acting childish.
posted by nomadicink at 6:05 AM on September 22, 2010 [2 favorites]
You know him and you know what doesn't work (Pulling him aside), so do you have ideas what would possibly work with getting him to stop? Is there a particular reason he's acting this shitty, was it a really bad breakup?
If your boss is laughing nervously when he's telling you to shut up and not hauling his ass into an office to chew him out, then you have big problems (no support) and you're kinda on your own. If that's truly the case, my suggestion would be to act like a bro with him. Quit taking him seriously, that's probably partially why he's being this immature and petty. Remember how the other guy said "Whoooooa dude, bad day?" when he told you to shut up? That perfectly dismisses him, while highlighting to others what a dick he's being.
You seem like a nice, sweet woman who doesn't want to hurt anybody. He knows that and is using it against you and it will probably escalate or at least drag out longer than you can possibly imagine, he sounds that shitty. As long as you continue to seem nice and sweet and caring to him, it will continue to work. Cut it out, put on that brave public face and quit taking him seriously, because he's not worth it.
I'm not sure I'd go to higher up. A culture of bros will probably see it as "you made this mess, it's your problem" and you may be perceived as weak or troublesome in their eyes. This is completely unfair, yes, but something to consider as a possibility as you think about what your next step should be.
Be a bro and quit taking him seriously when he's acting childish.
posted by nomadicink at 6:05 AM on September 22, 2010 [2 favorites]
did you break up with him? It sounds like he is still having trouble dealing with it, while you are ready to move on. Did he have anything to do with your getting the job? He was there for three months and was already your boyfriend when you started working for the company. Is it possible he expects you to leave now that the relationship is over, and is feeling resentment that you are committed to staying?
If any of that is accurate, I would just do my best to lay low, avoid interaction when possible, be polite when interaction is necessary, and hope things get better... But confrontation or accusations of harassment seem like the wrong direction. I think he's probably just hurting.
posted by mdn at 7:11 AM on September 22, 2010
If any of that is accurate, I would just do my best to lay low, avoid interaction when possible, be polite when interaction is necessary, and hope things get better... But confrontation or accusations of harassment seem like the wrong direction. I think he's probably just hurting.
posted by mdn at 7:11 AM on September 22, 2010
Best answer: Omigod, what a LOSER, LOL, what is he like, a five year old?? Amirite, bro? ROFL.
You have to do three things.
First, talk yourself out of feeling embarrassed. What exactly have you done to be embarrassed about? Tried to get your job done? Spoken to your coworkers? Maybe you were an incredible bitch during your breakup and broke his heart -- even that would not excuse this behavior at work. He is a grown up. Feel embarrassed for him and the way he is acting. When he does something stupid, turn to your coworkers and give a Jim [from The Office] shrug.
Second, sit back and allow his career to implode as a result of his own ridiculous, unprofessional, childish, and stupid behaviors. It's not up to you whether he gets fired -- it's up to him, and it looks to me like he's cruisin' for a bruisin'.
Third, DOCUMENT EVERYTHING. There is a chance that the bros might see a hostile work environment and blame you. CYA. And maybe start looking for a new job now while you can still spin this one well.
posted by thebazilist at 8:32 AM on September 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
You have to do three things.
First, talk yourself out of feeling embarrassed. What exactly have you done to be embarrassed about? Tried to get your job done? Spoken to your coworkers? Maybe you were an incredible bitch during your breakup and broke his heart -- even that would not excuse this behavior at work. He is a grown up. Feel embarrassed for him and the way he is acting. When he does something stupid, turn to your coworkers and give a Jim [from The Office] shrug.
Second, sit back and allow his career to implode as a result of his own ridiculous, unprofessional, childish, and stupid behaviors. It's not up to you whether he gets fired -- it's up to him, and it looks to me like he's cruisin' for a bruisin'.
Third, DOCUMENT EVERYTHING. There is a chance that the bros might see a hostile work environment and blame you. CYA. And maybe start looking for a new job now while you can still spin this one well.
posted by thebazilist at 8:32 AM on September 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Document everything.
Never be alone with him.
Never react.
Never appear upset, distressed or indignant.
Give him enough rope, he'll hang himself. On the other hand, don't give him any opportunity to reprimand you, embarrass you or demean you, so don't joke around him, be professional, distant, etc. Yes, it's weird, but as long as you don't react, he's either going to explode in public or he'll figure out that he's an ass.
Calling him out sounds like it might work, but I think you'll end up with the whole office feeling uncomfortable, and avoiding both of you. You don't want to be isolated. I'd become the most wonderful co-worker ever, bringing in cookies, etc., but that might not be your style.
But, I'd start looking around. Yes, it sucks and it's not fair, but at the end of the day, why do you want to stay there? You might get lucky and he'll get fired, but don't hold your breath.
posted by Ideefixe at 10:14 AM on September 22, 2010
Never be alone with him.
Never react.
Never appear upset, distressed or indignant.
Give him enough rope, he'll hang himself. On the other hand, don't give him any opportunity to reprimand you, embarrass you or demean you, so don't joke around him, be professional, distant, etc. Yes, it's weird, but as long as you don't react, he's either going to explode in public or he'll figure out that he's an ass.
Calling him out sounds like it might work, but I think you'll end up with the whole office feeling uncomfortable, and avoiding both of you. You don't want to be isolated. I'd become the most wonderful co-worker ever, bringing in cookies, etc., but that might not be your style.
But, I'd start looking around. Yes, it sucks and it's not fair, but at the end of the day, why do you want to stay there? You might get lucky and he'll get fired, but don't hold your breath.
posted by Ideefixe at 10:14 AM on September 22, 2010
Nope. Not sexual harassment. It's not easy confronting this idiot ex of yours. But you can do it. You seem like a really nice person who is just trying to do your job. Find the courage within you to figuratively put foot to ass.
posted by InterestedInKnowing at 10:24 AM on September 22, 2010
posted by InterestedInKnowing at 10:24 AM on September 22, 2010
thebazilist: Omigod, what a LOSER, LOL, what is he like, a five year old?? Amirite, bro? ROFL.
I totally agree with thebazilist but just want to say I think that the key is to get the "bros" saying these things. You should not be the one to say them. If you do, it will look like you're both engaging in an immature fight and you will both be tarred with the same brush: "Justin and Lauren, quit bickering and get your work done." etc.
Is there anyone out of the bros in the office you are really good friends with and/or is really sympathetic to you, or likely to be? If so, it will help a LOT if that person makes mocking comments whenever your ex acts up. If he starts doing it, the others will probably follow.
If you don't have a person like that, your ex needs to act out at times where it will directly embarrass or inconvenience the bros. He also needs to do things that annoy the bros. People mostly care about their own interests, not yours, and the bros seeing his behavior as concretely impacting them is the quickest way for your ex to get a firm "Never do that again." So, it is a little less than aboveboard, but are there innocent things you do that your ex usually responds to with a shitfit or other problem causing? I think it would be good to do those innocent things when the bros will see it and be directly impacted and annoyed by it.
And then you can do what thebazilist suggested, where you look at them with a shrug. Or, just let the awkwardness that he has caused hang in the air.
posted by Ashley801 at 1:06 PM on September 22, 2010
I totally agree with thebazilist but just want to say I think that the key is to get the "bros" saying these things. You should not be the one to say them. If you do, it will look like you're both engaging in an immature fight and you will both be tarred with the same brush: "Justin and Lauren, quit bickering and get your work done." etc.
Is there anyone out of the bros in the office you are really good friends with and/or is really sympathetic to you, or likely to be? If so, it will help a LOT if that person makes mocking comments whenever your ex acts up. If he starts doing it, the others will probably follow.
If you don't have a person like that, your ex needs to act out at times where it will directly embarrass or inconvenience the bros. He also needs to do things that annoy the bros. People mostly care about their own interests, not yours, and the bros seeing his behavior as concretely impacting them is the quickest way for your ex to get a firm "Never do that again." So, it is a little less than aboveboard, but are there innocent things you do that your ex usually responds to with a shitfit or other problem causing? I think it would be good to do those innocent things when the bros will see it and be directly impacted and annoyed by it.
And then you can do what thebazilist suggested, where you look at them with a shrug. Or, just let the awkwardness that he has caused hang in the air.
posted by Ashley801 at 1:06 PM on September 22, 2010
Yes, Ashley is right, I definitely didn't mean that you should be saying that out loud, but rather that that is the attitude you should have about his behavior and the attitude that you should foster among the bros about his behavior. Accompanied by a Jim face.
posted by thebazilist at 1:52 PM on September 22, 2010
posted by thebazilist at 1:52 PM on September 22, 2010
« Older I want to change my major from political science... | 11 bulb Scandianvian candelabra dilemma Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
So I'm going to go outside the very limiting scope of your allowed scenarios:
Sounds like something to approach HR about. Harassment would be the phrase to use.
posted by Rendus at 8:51 PM on September 21, 2010 [4 favorites]