How can I stop being unproductively didactic?
September 21, 2010 10:23 AM Subscribe
How can I stop being unnecessarily didactic?
I read too much for my own good, and often form very strong opinions about things. Like, opinions that are so strong that they turn people off. And I know that I'm right, because I've done my research. (I know, I know, I'm a classic INTJ...)
Lately, though, this has been a bit of a problem... my strong opinions seems to be alienating people who are close to me. Friendly conversations turn into heated debates, and sometimes, I'm the only one debating.
Today, I made the person closest to me in the entire world, absolutely livid, and I was told I was being "too didactic."
The thing is, she's kind of right. There's a point where my obsessive research and thought process, leading to a "correct" answer, makes me close-minded, and I begin shooting down every other idea floated to me.
How can I keep myself in check, and undo some of the damage I may have inadvertently caused?
I read too much for my own good, and often form very strong opinions about things. Like, opinions that are so strong that they turn people off. And I know that I'm right, because I've done my research. (I know, I know, I'm a classic INTJ...)
Lately, though, this has been a bit of a problem... my strong opinions seems to be alienating people who are close to me. Friendly conversations turn into heated debates, and sometimes, I'm the only one debating.
Today, I made the person closest to me in the entire world, absolutely livid, and I was told I was being "too didactic."
The thing is, she's kind of right. There's a point where my obsessive research and thought process, leading to a "correct" answer, makes me close-minded, and I begin shooting down every other idea floated to me.
How can I keep myself in check, and undo some of the damage I may have inadvertently caused?
Apologize and say you want to work on it.
Let those that are close to you know this. Tell them you feel like you're alienating people with the way you are acting, and that you don't like it. Let them know that you would actually appreciate it when they point out that you're acting that way. They may or may not be game for this, but knowing you feel this way might go a long way to repairing damaged relationships or hurt feelings.
Then, actually change. I'm not sure how to help you there except for the always helpful "think before you speak" (which, is just about the most hypocritical advice I could give - so trust me, I know that's easier said than done); hopefully, others will have better advice.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 10:31 AM on September 21, 2010
Let those that are close to you know this. Tell them you feel like you're alienating people with the way you are acting, and that you don't like it. Let them know that you would actually appreciate it when they point out that you're acting that way. They may or may not be game for this, but knowing you feel this way might go a long way to repairing damaged relationships or hurt feelings.
Then, actually change. I'm not sure how to help you there except for the always helpful "think before you speak" (which, is just about the most hypocritical advice I could give - so trust me, I know that's easier said than done); hopefully, others will have better advice.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 10:31 AM on September 21, 2010
Best answer: Oops, left out a big part: as it is not important to them, correcting them does little more than gratify your own ego. You know X, they do not, you have demonstrated your knowledge of X and made yourself look better. Sure, your intent may be altruistic, but unconsciously, it's an ego trip (or, what the hell do I know about your unconscious, it may be altruistic in there too, but it doesn't matter out here in the Real World.) And we can all cut down on ego tripping.
posted by griphus at 10:32 AM on September 21, 2010
posted by griphus at 10:32 AM on September 21, 2010
Best answer: Make your point - and leave it there. Don't even try to convince the other person. Don't try to prove you are right (and therefore they are wrong.) Just state your opinion, or your insert your comment into the conversation - and move on.
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 10:35 AM on September 21, 2010
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 10:35 AM on September 21, 2010
Best answer: Didactic INTJ here. I hate myself when I go into lecture/debate mode. I've found that preventing this is a task called Learning To Let Go. Take opportunities to let go throughout your day. Especially when you don't necessarily need to. You could respond to this email, but maybe let this one pass? You could defend yourself on that one point, but maybe exercise your right not to? You could explain what was wrong with the logic, but maybe let them figure it out on their own? The world really doesn't change much either way you go. Learn and really know that. You're a little bit improved by practising a less tighter grip on the world.
I also find it helps to remember that I'm always striving to cultivate my inner Dudeness.
posted by iamkimiam at 10:37 AM on September 21, 2010 [3 favorites]
I also find it helps to remember that I'm always striving to cultivate my inner Dudeness.
posted by iamkimiam at 10:37 AM on September 21, 2010 [3 favorites]
Remind yourself that you're still a human, and all the cognitive shortcuts humans take apply to you too. We are very good at rejecting evidence we dislike and over-emphasizing evidence we do like. The longer we've held a position, the more inclined we are to continue to hold on to it, regardless of any evidence to the contrary.
As wildly unlikely as it seems to you, you have been wrong in the past and you will be wrong again in the future.
This doesn't, of course, mean that you shouldn't take positions. I personally hold some very strong views that I don't think I'm likely to change any time soon. Nonetheless, I'm not going to get into a shouting match with someone unless it's someone that actually enjoys getting into shouting matches (my dad and I love to argue about stuff, for example).
In fact, that's another idea: find some friends that hold different views from you and that like to argue. Argue with them!
posted by kavasa at 10:44 AM on September 21, 2010
As wildly unlikely as it seems to you, you have been wrong in the past and you will be wrong again in the future.
This doesn't, of course, mean that you shouldn't take positions. I personally hold some very strong views that I don't think I'm likely to change any time soon. Nonetheless, I'm not going to get into a shouting match with someone unless it's someone that actually enjoys getting into shouting matches (my dad and I love to argue about stuff, for example).
In fact, that's another idea: find some friends that hold different views from you and that like to argue. Argue with them!
posted by kavasa at 10:44 AM on September 21, 2010
Best answer: And I know that I'm right, because I've done my research.
I am a black and white thinker sometimes and I know what this feels like. That said, there's a micro-context and a macro-context to most of these interpersonal interactions. Very few non-mathematical questions have a truly right answer, many have contextually correct answers. Context can vary by time and by place and by Not Being You. So, if you're having a debate that is anything other than something mathematically determined, try to figure out who you're so sure that your interpretation of every single variable is superior to the other person's. And then try to figure out why you are determined to basically make them admit that you're right. And why that is higher on the priority list than not seeming like a jerk.
I mean obviously you don't think you're being a jerk because you likely wouldn't go right out and be jerkish. But once people tell you that you're doing this thing, you now have to change it up because you've been informed [you are also welcome to disagree with their assessment, but that's going to lead either to continued conflict or dissolution of the relationship].
Usually I think about outcomes. What would I like to happen? How could I affect that? And, given that, how can I do that and have the other person not think I'm a jerk? Sometimes you have to play the long game. Sometimes saving face even if you KNOW you're wrong involves walking away and not saying "you're right" to someone [in this case, you]. Sometimes there's more at play than you think there is [witness the religion conversations here, so much assuredness, so little convincing, so much anger and frustration] and sometimes you can't talk about all the variables.
So, be clear to your firends that you're working on this. Have some sort of safe word or other way of indicating "hey i think you're crossing the line into jerk here" without letting someone else be the arbiter of how you act. I have this with other friends. We often say "I thought we were having anice time" if someone is vering off into pedantic negativity at the expense of us all hanging out together and not fighting.
And keep in mind that you are not wrong in this, but you're not being situationally and/or socially appropriate. And in different situations, being a didactic person is just fine. But if you want to interact with the friends who find it jerkish, you'll have to find middle ground. Good luck.
posted by jessamyn at 10:45 AM on September 21, 2010 [9 favorites]
I am a black and white thinker sometimes and I know what this feels like. That said, there's a micro-context and a macro-context to most of these interpersonal interactions. Very few non-mathematical questions have a truly right answer, many have contextually correct answers. Context can vary by time and by place and by Not Being You. So, if you're having a debate that is anything other than something mathematically determined, try to figure out who you're so sure that your interpretation of every single variable is superior to the other person's. And then try to figure out why you are determined to basically make them admit that you're right. And why that is higher on the priority list than not seeming like a jerk.
I mean obviously you don't think you're being a jerk because you likely wouldn't go right out and be jerkish. But once people tell you that you're doing this thing, you now have to change it up because you've been informed [you are also welcome to disagree with their assessment, but that's going to lead either to continued conflict or dissolution of the relationship].
Usually I think about outcomes. What would I like to happen? How could I affect that? And, given that, how can I do that and have the other person not think I'm a jerk? Sometimes you have to play the long game. Sometimes saving face even if you KNOW you're wrong involves walking away and not saying "you're right" to someone [in this case, you]. Sometimes there's more at play than you think there is [witness the religion conversations here, so much assuredness, so little convincing, so much anger and frustration] and sometimes you can't talk about all the variables.
So, be clear to your firends that you're working on this. Have some sort of safe word or other way of indicating "hey i think you're crossing the line into jerk here" without letting someone else be the arbiter of how you act. I have this with other friends. We often say "I thought we were having anice time" if someone is vering off into pedantic negativity at the expense of us all hanging out together and not fighting.
And keep in mind that you are not wrong in this, but you're not being situationally and/or socially appropriate. And in different situations, being a didactic person is just fine. But if you want to interact with the friends who find it jerkish, you'll have to find middle ground. Good luck.
posted by jessamyn at 10:45 AM on September 21, 2010 [9 favorites]
Best answer: Recognize that most of the time when people shoot the shit the point is not to arrive at a mutually agreeable point, it's merely social interation. It's like dancing; the best dancers don't care if their partner makes a misstep as long as everyone's having fun and feeling involved.
posted by 2bucksplus at 10:46 AM on September 21, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by 2bucksplus at 10:46 AM on September 21, 2010 [3 favorites]
Some of it's learning to let go, as iamkimiam says; some of it is learning to listen. And learning to value being wrong.
Stephen Landsburg said, "In a courtroom, you win when you change someone else's mind. In academia, you win when someone else changes your mind."
It's partly a matter of practice. As you experiment with asserting your point and then shutting up about it, you're going to have an increasing number of experiences where you get to learn something from the people around you. This is such positive feedback that you'll get better at expressing your points softly, listening to counterarguments, and identifying when your conversant is enjoying vs. hating the conversation.
It's great that you want to work on this. It's something I'm working on in myself. I just want to assure you that the behavior is not only modifiable, but that it gets much easier with time.
posted by endless_forms at 10:48 AM on September 21, 2010
Stephen Landsburg said, "In a courtroom, you win when you change someone else's mind. In academia, you win when someone else changes your mind."
It's partly a matter of practice. As you experiment with asserting your point and then shutting up about it, you're going to have an increasing number of experiences where you get to learn something from the people around you. This is such positive feedback that you'll get better at expressing your points softly, listening to counterarguments, and identifying when your conversant is enjoying vs. hating the conversation.
It's great that you want to work on this. It's something I'm working on in myself. I just want to assure you that the behavior is not only modifiable, but that it gets much easier with time.
posted by endless_forms at 10:48 AM on September 21, 2010
Best answer: People have to be open to your way of thinking for your efforts to be successful (whether you are actually right or wrong). In an argument, it's unlikely either party is open to the others way of thinking. People don't learn until they want to. Your efforts may be wasted. Avoid arguments if you actually have an interest in communicating.
Also, you won't learn until you do the same. remember, there's black and white out there, but there's a whole lot more gray.
posted by nickjadlowe at 10:48 AM on September 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
Also, you won't learn until you do the same. remember, there's black and white out there, but there's a whole lot more gray.
posted by nickjadlowe at 10:48 AM on September 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
Speak less overall. Get a better perpsective on the significance of opinions in general and yours in particular. Find a time when facts mattered (as in dead / not dead mattered) and note that time compared to the great majority of times. Fact matter a great deal on rare occassions, not every single time or often. But most of all, speak less.
posted by eccnineten at 10:51 AM on September 21, 2010
posted by eccnineten at 10:51 AM on September 21, 2010
Just remember that yours is not the only valid opinion, even if you have fact on your side. Remember that you don't have to "win" every discussion, or you don't have to be the one that knows everything.
There's tremendous value in knowing when you're right and knowing when not to prove that you know you're right.
And remember, most of all, that it is perfectly OK to not have an opinion about something. There's a lot of third-party academic/pedantic/didactic stuff in the world - and almost none of it is worth ruining friendships over. People matter more than facts.
Good luck!
posted by pdb at 10:59 AM on September 21, 2010
There's tremendous value in knowing when you're right and knowing when not to prove that you know you're right.
And remember, most of all, that it is perfectly OK to not have an opinion about something. There's a lot of third-party academic/pedantic/didactic stuff in the world - and almost none of it is worth ruining friendships over. People matter more than facts.
Good luck!
posted by pdb at 10:59 AM on September 21, 2010
I find it useful to keep in mind that we are all very fallible and that a lot of our opinions come from a complex mix of deeply held emotional beliefs and random inputs and not as much of a rational opinion as we'd like to think. Confirmation bias affects us all! We do a lot of reading...reading and research that we've unconsciously selected to prove our previously held points. We routinely ascribe people's failures to their weakness in character while explaining ours away by forces beyond or control. We find patterns that just aren't there, we succumb to peer pressure. And smart folks are not any better at avoiding this...in fact it is even harder to convince them since they can make very good arguments to themselves(!).
Now, it is entirely possible that you ARE right in many situations, but no one is right all the time...right? Heh. So, keep in mind that you and me and we are all prone to these errors in our thinking. Maybe This ONE time, you are wrong...let that little bit of doubt enter in your head. I think it will do a world of good. It's certainly helped me. That and practicing saying, "I could be wrong."
posted by Wink Ricketts at 11:00 AM on September 21, 2010
Now, it is entirely possible that you ARE right in many situations, but no one is right all the time...right? Heh. So, keep in mind that you and me and we are all prone to these errors in our thinking. Maybe This ONE time, you are wrong...let that little bit of doubt enter in your head. I think it will do a world of good. It's certainly helped me. That and practicing saying, "I could be wrong."
posted by Wink Ricketts at 11:00 AM on September 21, 2010
Best answer: If you try the "think before you speak" mantra, you might look at the elementary school maxim:
Is it true? Is it helpful? Is it kind?
Maybe change it up a bit to meet your situation, but if you can train yourself to stop and ask questions before you speak, that might help. Even if you do it AFTER you insert your first comment in the conversation, then stop to ask if the resulting argument would be helpful or kind ('cuz we know it's true!).
posted by CathyG at 11:02 AM on September 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
Is it true? Is it helpful? Is it kind?
Maybe change it up a bit to meet your situation, but if you can train yourself to stop and ask questions before you speak, that might help. Even if you do it AFTER you insert your first comment in the conversation, then stop to ask if the resulting argument would be helpful or kind ('cuz we know it's true!).
posted by CathyG at 11:02 AM on September 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
Best answer: In social interactions, you do not get points for being right. You get points for allowing other people to state their views, even when they are wrong.
posted by DarlingBri at 11:03 AM on September 21, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by DarlingBri at 11:03 AM on September 21, 2010 [4 favorites]
Certainty is generally a bad thing, a sign of closed-mindedness rather than correctness. So cultivate a feeling of skepticism whenever you start feeling too sure of yourself.
Also, being right doesn't compel you to tell other people about it. Whatever is driving you to get into these unwelcome debates, it's not your superior rightness. You've got some other emotional issue driving this; you're afraid of disrespect or something -- heck, I don't know, but this is an emotional problem pretending to be an intellectual issue. Try and feel out the roots of whatever anxiety or insecurity you're struggling with when you press your opinions on people, and other, better solutions might suggest themselves.
posted by jon1270 at 11:05 AM on September 21, 2010
Also, being right doesn't compel you to tell other people about it. Whatever is driving you to get into these unwelcome debates, it's not your superior rightness. You've got some other emotional issue driving this; you're afraid of disrespect or something -- heck, I don't know, but this is an emotional problem pretending to be an intellectual issue. Try and feel out the roots of whatever anxiety or insecurity you're struggling with when you press your opinions on people, and other, better solutions might suggest themselves.
posted by jon1270 at 11:05 AM on September 21, 2010
I write about my ideas, questions and opinions on my blog, where people can read them if they want. I try not to go into arguments in casual conversation; one thing that helps me do this is how much I hate it when people try to "educate" me or change my mind when I'm just doodling along living my life or being social.
I also make a point, when I'm interested in reading about something, to read things from various perspectives. This has left me much less inclined to think I have the single right answer, if I've read three or four books or a dozen magazine articles on a topic and can see that reasonable people who are well-educated on the issue don't perfectly agree with each other.
Finally, I have found that just living long enough to be drastically wrong about a few things I felt absolute conviction about has helped me back off. As Wink Rickletts said, "I've been wrong before, I'll certainly be wrong again, and I could be wrong now" can take the edge off any evangelical fervor I might be feeling.
One thing I find is that people know that I am generally well-informed. Friends will ask for my thoughts about a topic pretty regularly. At that point, I've been invited to share what I learned, and can do so without being offensive. It's flattering to find that people respect me in that way, and I think that nobody would ever invite me to speak on a topic if I made a habit of being pedantic in friendly conversations.
posted by not that girl at 11:15 AM on September 21, 2010
I also make a point, when I'm interested in reading about something, to read things from various perspectives. This has left me much less inclined to think I have the single right answer, if I've read three or four books or a dozen magazine articles on a topic and can see that reasonable people who are well-educated on the issue don't perfectly agree with each other.
Finally, I have found that just living long enough to be drastically wrong about a few things I felt absolute conviction about has helped me back off. As Wink Rickletts said, "I've been wrong before, I'll certainly be wrong again, and I could be wrong now" can take the edge off any evangelical fervor I might be feeling.
One thing I find is that people know that I am generally well-informed. Friends will ask for my thoughts about a topic pretty regularly. At that point, I've been invited to share what I learned, and can do so without being offensive. It's flattering to find that people respect me in that way, and I think that nobody would ever invite me to speak on a topic if I made a habit of being pedantic in friendly conversations.
posted by not that girl at 11:15 AM on September 21, 2010
Best answer: my strong opinions seems to be alienating people
See, that's not so. It's your expression of these opinions that causes the problem. And that, in turn, is caused by your strong opinion that those opinions must be expressed. Now that you see the result of that, maybe you are ready to revise that opinion.
posted by Obscure Reference at 11:15 AM on September 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
See, that's not so. It's your expression of these opinions that causes the problem. And that, in turn, is caused by your strong opinion that those opinions must be expressed. Now that you see the result of that, maybe you are ready to revise that opinion.
posted by Obscure Reference at 11:15 AM on September 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
It might be best to simply refrain from voicing your opinion. Some things can't be said because other people just don't want to hear them. Writing about them in a private (or invite-only) blog might be a better way for you to say what you want to say.
posted by Anima Mundi at 11:22 AM on September 21, 2010
posted by Anima Mundi at 11:22 AM on September 21, 2010
I'll be honest. I really, REALLY, don't like people who behave the way you have described.
I have such strong opinions about it that it is a real struggle contain myself.
But I actually really want to help you.
And because of this, I know that if I yell and scream, I will end up hurting your feelings and I will get all worked up and stuff. You will also just dismiss this as some insane ranting hardly worthy of your time and move on to the next comment, perhaps even more resolved than before in the righteousness of your beliefs.
So I will just take a deep breath, accept that you are a rational person (who like, totally reads books and stuff) and point you to this previous thread that poses a similar question.
That way I can keep calm while getting my point across, and we can still be friends.
Yeah.. wasn't that easy?
posted by TheOtherGuy at 11:30 AM on September 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
I have such strong opinions about it that it is a real struggle contain myself.
But I actually really want to help you.
And because of this, I know that if I yell and scream, I will end up hurting your feelings and I will get all worked up and stuff. You will also just dismiss this as some insane ranting hardly worthy of your time and move on to the next comment, perhaps even more resolved than before in the righteousness of your beliefs.
So I will just take a deep breath, accept that you are a rational person (who like, totally reads books and stuff) and point you to this previous thread that poses a similar question.
That way I can keep calm while getting my point across, and we can still be friends.
Yeah.. wasn't that easy?
posted by TheOtherGuy at 11:30 AM on September 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
Best answer: When you share your passion for a particular topic in a positive way, people will be drawn to it -- they'll want to hear all about your organic garden or your architectural opinions on the downtown or whatever. When it excites you and you want to share it, people like to hear about it. Even if you have strong opinions. (It'll still go over better if you can couch those opinions a little and not be a dick about them, but people understand when you're passionate about a particular topic.)
But when your passion is actually BEING RIGHT and ARGUING, most people don't like that. When you're argumentative on every subject and MUST be right, what's the point of talking to you? It'll just turn into an argument, and you probably become something of a bully about how right you are when arguing.
Most litigators have a passion for arguing. There's a reason the divorce rate for litigators is sky-high. They're DICKS to their families when they can't leave the litigating at the office, and they're difficult as friends. My husband is a litigator, and I routinely have to tell him to stop litigating me. (I also pre-emptively threaten him that if he, say, litigates my ob-gyn during the ultrasound appointment, I will burst into tears or possibly get stabby.) His redeeming quality is that he tries very hard not to litigate at home and pulls up short the minute I point it out. (It probably also helps that I am also a lawyer, so I recognize it immediately and my skin's a little thicker about it than some people's might be.) But we know several other litigators whose families are falling apart, or have fallen apart, because they simply can't stop litigating their families, and eventually their spouse (and sometimes kids) gets fed up.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 11:36 AM on September 21, 2010 [3 favorites]
But when your passion is actually BEING RIGHT and ARGUING, most people don't like that. When you're argumentative on every subject and MUST be right, what's the point of talking to you? It'll just turn into an argument, and you probably become something of a bully about how right you are when arguing.
Most litigators have a passion for arguing. There's a reason the divorce rate for litigators is sky-high. They're DICKS to their families when they can't leave the litigating at the office, and they're difficult as friends. My husband is a litigator, and I routinely have to tell him to stop litigating me. (I also pre-emptively threaten him that if he, say, litigates my ob-gyn during the ultrasound appointment, I will burst into tears or possibly get stabby.) His redeeming quality is that he tries very hard not to litigate at home and pulls up short the minute I point it out. (It probably also helps that I am also a lawyer, so I recognize it immediately and my skin's a little thicker about it than some people's might be.) But we know several other litigators whose families are falling apart, or have fallen apart, because they simply can't stop litigating their families, and eventually their spouse (and sometimes kids) gets fed up.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 11:36 AM on September 21, 2010 [3 favorites]
Best answer: You're describing me, or moreso the me of a couple of years ago than the now-me (by a small margin).
Get out of your head. Practice getting into other people's. Not in a didactic, "Oh, and why do you think that, especially when you take into consideration this and THIS and this?" way, but in a I'm-gonna-shut-up-and-just-listen way. Don't talk until your interlocutor runs out of things to say, and then make it your goal to keep them talking.
Practice this. And check yourself from time to time - is anyone else talking? Has anyone tried to change the subject? If no to the first, and/or yes to the second, it's time to shut up.
posted by Emperor SnooKloze at 11:55 AM on September 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
Get out of your head. Practice getting into other people's. Not in a didactic, "Oh, and why do you think that, especially when you take into consideration this and THIS and this?" way, but in a I'm-gonna-shut-up-and-just-listen way. Don't talk until your interlocutor runs out of things to say, and then make it your goal to keep them talking.
Practice this. And check yourself from time to time - is anyone else talking? Has anyone tried to change the subject? If no to the first, and/or yes to the second, it's time to shut up.
posted by Emperor SnooKloze at 11:55 AM on September 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
Best answer: +1 2bucksplus
This was very nice of your friend to call you "too didactic." I have a friend with a variation of this, and I recently called him a "Wikipedia gasbag," having reached a boiling point of frustration with it.
The "Wikipedia gasbag" has a graduate degree and an interesting career in the same field as his degree, and I took pains to mention that he was welcome to go on about that particular topic with the authoritative tone that I was objecting to in his other conversations. When he talks about his field of for-real expertise, I listen, I often do not even question his opinions on issues in that field but just assume that it must be as reasonably close to "correct" as it gets, and it is genuinely interesting stuff.
But the rest of it...yes, you read a few books. That's nice. Lots of people read lots of books. It does not an expert make. One thing I can't get about my "Wikipedia gasbag" friend is how he can be so knowledgeable in one area, and thus understand the level of immersion and study required for genuine expertise, and yet still think his thoughts about other subjects might be on par with the thing he is actually schooled in.
Going on a little jag and doing "obsessive research" does not an expert make. It is presumptuous to speak as though one is an expert when the sum of one's learning is merely a little pile from the local public library.*
However, now that you have received all these brow-beatings from friends and Ask MeFites, perhaps what you want to keep in mind is not so much "Boy, I'm a blowhard," self-flagellation not being particularly useful here, but "Even though I am likely correct, nobody cares." Change your understanding of how conversation works. Unless you are receiving direct questions about your viewpoints and are being specifically asked to elaborate on how you came to them, leave those things out of chit-chat with friends.
* No offence meant to public libraries, or people who go on these jags; I do it myself, laudable pass-time
posted by kmennie at 12:06 PM on September 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
This was very nice of your friend to call you "too didactic." I have a friend with a variation of this, and I recently called him a "Wikipedia gasbag," having reached a boiling point of frustration with it.
The "Wikipedia gasbag" has a graduate degree and an interesting career in the same field as his degree, and I took pains to mention that he was welcome to go on about that particular topic with the authoritative tone that I was objecting to in his other conversations. When he talks about his field of for-real expertise, I listen, I often do not even question his opinions on issues in that field but just assume that it must be as reasonably close to "correct" as it gets, and it is genuinely interesting stuff.
But the rest of it...yes, you read a few books. That's nice. Lots of people read lots of books. It does not an expert make. One thing I can't get about my "Wikipedia gasbag" friend is how he can be so knowledgeable in one area, and thus understand the level of immersion and study required for genuine expertise, and yet still think his thoughts about other subjects might be on par with the thing he is actually schooled in.
Going on a little jag and doing "obsessive research" does not an expert make. It is presumptuous to speak as though one is an expert when the sum of one's learning is merely a little pile from the local public library.*
However, now that you have received all these brow-beatings from friends and Ask MeFites, perhaps what you want to keep in mind is not so much "Boy, I'm a blowhard," self-flagellation not being particularly useful here, but "Even though I am likely correct, nobody cares." Change your understanding of how conversation works. Unless you are receiving direct questions about your viewpoints and are being specifically asked to elaborate on how you came to them, leave those things out of chit-chat with friends.
* No offence meant to public libraries, or people who go on these jags; I do it myself, laudable pass-time
posted by kmennie at 12:06 PM on September 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: To change something about your personality, I suggest employing something I've taken to calling the Funhouse Mirror Strategy. What you do is look around in your life for someone else who has the tendency you're trying to eliminate. It's best if this person is even worse about it than you are, but that's not necessary. Then expose yourself to that person as much as possible, and try to elicit as much of the problematic behavior as possible. In your case, you just need to steer the conversation toward topics that tend to lead to the kind of arguments you describe. What I've found is that you will find this other person's behavior so off-putting that it might change the way you act. It reflects something about your personality back at you in a distorted way, hence the name.
posted by Ragged Richard at 12:14 PM on September 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Ragged Richard at 12:14 PM on September 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
When you don't criticise, don't argue, approach people kindly and with best intentions, when you accept people for what they are, without any judgement, they will enjoy your company.
You will see that instantly and it's beautiful.
You will become a mirror in which people will see their reflection.
Bruce Lee actually said it better.
posted by leigh1 at 12:30 PM on September 21, 2010
You will see that instantly and it's beautiful.
You will become a mirror in which people will see their reflection.
Bruce Lee actually said it better.
posted by leigh1 at 12:30 PM on September 21, 2010
Best answer: I ask myself three questions before wading into a debate.
1. Does this need to be said?
2. Do I need to say this?
3. Do I need to say this now?
I have found this to be a simple method of keeping myself in check and staying out of discussions that are not productive.
There are things in life that are far more important than being right.
posted by DWRoelands at 12:38 PM on September 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
1. Does this need to be said?
2. Do I need to say this?
3. Do I need to say this now?
I have found this to be a simple method of keeping myself in check and staying out of discussions that are not productive.
There are things in life that are far more important than being right.
posted by DWRoelands at 12:38 PM on September 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
Taking a moment to ask this question (and really hear the answer) can be helpful for both you & your friends in this moment: "Would it be helpful to you to hear my opinion on (or "what I know about") this?"
This allows you to make the offer of information to your friends, and to let them know you have something valuable to share, but it also gives them a moment to say "No thank you, I'm pretty clear on what I want to do here" - and then you've made the whole interaction better for both of you by really clarifying when your input is wanted & when it isn't. Your friends will likely say yes much of the time, because surely they know you are bright and opinionated and have much to offer. And sometimes they'll say no, and you'll be ok with that because it will help you avoid the conflict and discomfort.
posted by judith at 12:41 PM on September 21, 2010
This allows you to make the offer of information to your friends, and to let them know you have something valuable to share, but it also gives them a moment to say "No thank you, I'm pretty clear on what I want to do here" - and then you've made the whole interaction better for both of you by really clarifying when your input is wanted & when it isn't. Your friends will likely say yes much of the time, because surely they know you are bright and opinionated and have much to offer. And sometimes they'll say no, and you'll be ok with that because it will help you avoid the conflict and discomfort.
posted by judith at 12:41 PM on September 21, 2010
Best answer: Find an outlet for it, like the internet or a friend who enjoys it and stop correcting or arguing with everybody else. If you must, make your point once, quietly and politely, and move on.
posted by callmejay at 12:52 PM on September 21, 2010
posted by callmejay at 12:52 PM on September 21, 2010
Best answer: I relate. I'm recovering from this.
And I know that I'm right, because I've done my research.
You're not right though. You're answering the wrong question. The question, unless you're in court or on tv to argue, isn't whatever you think you're talking about. It's "how can I enjoy myself and let others enjoy themselves too?" Now trying doing that right.
Now I avoid people who won't let me not fight. I do my fighting, if necessary, in writing so I can cite sources. And if it really comes to it, I allow myself "that's not true" in verbal arguments. When I recently got into it with my cousin too much, I cut myself off from reading so much and being informed. Because I was exactly what you described yourself as--unproductively didactic.
posted by oreofuchi at 1:34 PM on September 21, 2010
And I know that I'm right, because I've done my research.
You're not right though. You're answering the wrong question. The question, unless you're in court or on tv to argue, isn't whatever you think you're talking about. It's "how can I enjoy myself and let others enjoy themselves too?" Now trying doing that right.
Now I avoid people who won't let me not fight. I do my fighting, if necessary, in writing so I can cite sources. And if it really comes to it, I allow myself "that's not true" in verbal arguments. When I recently got into it with my cousin too much, I cut myself off from reading so much and being informed. Because I was exactly what you described yourself as--unproductively didactic.
posted by oreofuchi at 1:34 PM on September 21, 2010
Best answer: To me, your first paragraph reveals the problem. There are more-informed and less-informed opinions, but there aren't "right" and "wrong" opinions. No matter how much research you've done, you don't get to be "right" about every issue, because many issues and subjects don't have "right" answers. When someone expresses an opinion that disagrees with yours, maybe you could stop before speaking and ask yourself, "Do I want to find out more about what they think, or do I want to prove them wrong?" If you want to prove them wrong, swallow the comment.
posted by epj at 2:09 PM on September 21, 2010
posted by epj at 2:09 PM on September 21, 2010
Best answer: One thing I would advise is asking the other person why he or she holds X opinion on the issue you wish to discuss, not to find the flaw in his or her thinking, but just to listen to this person's viewpoint respectfully. Simply listening can not only convey that you value what the other person has to contribute, which is important, but also may give you insight into the topic you don't have. Maybe the other person has some rich personal experience to share. Having factual evidence about an issue is one thing, but it can be quite another to listen to a personal experience about the issue. It could also help you understand why the other party may be too emotionally involved or sensitive to really participate in the type of argument you describe. If that's the case, be thankful to the person for sharing and just let the issue go.
posted by miss-lapin at 2:10 PM on September 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by miss-lapin at 2:10 PM on September 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
Best answer: ENTJ here, but I could just say nthing/THIS/ditto to what everyone else said... but I'll merely suggest a tactic that I've forced myself to use discovered works for me:
STFU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PaHcZUHI00
It's a lot easier to avoid sounding like a pompous windbag when your mouth is closed. Not talking helps you learn to be a better listener. and everyone likes a good listener.
the other day, someone asked me what a cooking term meant, and I caught myself saying "it comes from the latin root of ......." and the room fell silent. I'm cringing thinking about it.
posted by ChefJoAnna at 2:53 PM on September 21, 2010
STFU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PaHcZUHI00
It's a lot easier to avoid sounding like a pompous windbag when your mouth is closed. Not talking helps you learn to be a better listener. and everyone likes a good listener.
the other day, someone asked me what a cooking term meant, and I caught myself saying "it comes from the latin root of ......." and the room fell silent. I'm cringing thinking about it.
posted by ChefJoAnna at 2:53 PM on September 21, 2010
Best answer: I have the same sort of problem and it's something that I've thought about a lot. In the end I had to reach a sort of compromise with myself where I consciously try to tone it down in situations where it's not appropriate, revel in it on the occasions where my willingness to expound upon seemingly obscure topics is appreciated, and overall just accept that it's sort of an inherent personality trait that I need to learn to love because it's not really going to go away. Every personal weakness is also a strength, and every personal strength has a weakness embedded in it. Wisdom is often about learning to emphasize the strong aspects of your traits while mitigating the weaker aspects.
Regarding the first category of conversations, which usually involve strangers or coworkers or anyone who hasn't already come to know and love me (or know and avoid me), I try to see the situation as an opportunity to work on my listening skills. I just try to relax, quell my urge to interrupt, give people ample time to finish their thoughts. If I can't resist the urge to "correct" someone I try to frame it in terms of "I'm curious how you came to that position. I'm not an expert or anything but I've been led to believe that sometimes it's actually a little bit different from that, in this way. Life is so complicated, yeah?" Then I let them explain themselves as much as they want to, and I listen to where they're coming from. It's often very interesting. I try to be sensitive and cautious with my words, and to reserve personal judgments for myself in all but the most egregious examples.
For the second, I'm fortunate to have a circle of friends who understand and enjoy my ability to talk shop (or talk shit) about a pretty wide variety of subjects, but it's still important to keep in mind the fact that other people's perspectives on an issue, while different from my own, may well be equally valid or may follow logically from a certain foundational worldview or from their own education, preconceptions, or moral code. Just because I've read up on something doesn't mean that I've come to the One True Answer for a particular topic. I can relax and be a bit more expansive (my girlfriend is particularly wonderful about letting me go on long, wandering, tangential intellectual rambles – and she very often returns the favor with her own set of fascinating insights and thoughts about the subject at hand) but sometimes it's important to listen instead of talk. I have to resist the urge to try to "win" or control whatever conversation I'm in, and instead try just to contribute meaningfully and let it go wherever it wants to go. And when I realize that I'm being a poor conversationalist – being needlessly pedantic, interrupting, waiting to talk instead of actually listening and responding – I make sure to apologize for being such a pedantic prick. Self-deprecating humor goes a long way here.
Overall though it's not something that I've been able to just "fix" about myself, and I've come to realize that I don't really want to. I love being able to speak knowledgeably about almost anything that comes my way. I love being the guy that can pull up some interesting bit of trivia or anecdote on nearly any subject. I love the feeling of pride and satisfaction that I get from deploying some cherished bit of knowledge in a particularly adroit, contextual fashion. Yes it can turn people off sometimes, and yes it can occasionally be embarrassing or make me look stupid or rude. I do my best to work with this, I forgive myself for my missteps while continually trying to reduce their frequency, and I accept that while I will never be able to please everyone, the kind of people who do enjoy my quirks are exactly the kind of people whose company I most value.
Finally, one piece of fairly concrete advice: never, ever allow yourself to be drawn into a conversation about politics or religion when there's alcohol going around, unless you are with close friends. People usually understand this, except for those who who are true bores in which case you can feel free to flame away as much as your bartender will allow.
posted by Scientist at 4:06 PM on September 21, 2010
Regarding the first category of conversations, which usually involve strangers or coworkers or anyone who hasn't already come to know and love me (or know and avoid me), I try to see the situation as an opportunity to work on my listening skills. I just try to relax, quell my urge to interrupt, give people ample time to finish their thoughts. If I can't resist the urge to "correct" someone I try to frame it in terms of "I'm curious how you came to that position. I'm not an expert or anything but I've been led to believe that sometimes it's actually a little bit different from that, in this way. Life is so complicated, yeah?" Then I let them explain themselves as much as they want to, and I listen to where they're coming from. It's often very interesting. I try to be sensitive and cautious with my words, and to reserve personal judgments for myself in all but the most egregious examples.
For the second, I'm fortunate to have a circle of friends who understand and enjoy my ability to talk shop (or talk shit) about a pretty wide variety of subjects, but it's still important to keep in mind the fact that other people's perspectives on an issue, while different from my own, may well be equally valid or may follow logically from a certain foundational worldview or from their own education, preconceptions, or moral code. Just because I've read up on something doesn't mean that I've come to the One True Answer for a particular topic. I can relax and be a bit more expansive (my girlfriend is particularly wonderful about letting me go on long, wandering, tangential intellectual rambles – and she very often returns the favor with her own set of fascinating insights and thoughts about the subject at hand) but sometimes it's important to listen instead of talk. I have to resist the urge to try to "win" or control whatever conversation I'm in, and instead try just to contribute meaningfully and let it go wherever it wants to go. And when I realize that I'm being a poor conversationalist – being needlessly pedantic, interrupting, waiting to talk instead of actually listening and responding – I make sure to apologize for being such a pedantic prick. Self-deprecating humor goes a long way here.
Overall though it's not something that I've been able to just "fix" about myself, and I've come to realize that I don't really want to. I love being able to speak knowledgeably about almost anything that comes my way. I love being the guy that can pull up some interesting bit of trivia or anecdote on nearly any subject. I love the feeling of pride and satisfaction that I get from deploying some cherished bit of knowledge in a particularly adroit, contextual fashion. Yes it can turn people off sometimes, and yes it can occasionally be embarrassing or make me look stupid or rude. I do my best to work with this, I forgive myself for my missteps while continually trying to reduce their frequency, and I accept that while I will never be able to please everyone, the kind of people who do enjoy my quirks are exactly the kind of people whose company I most value.
Finally, one piece of fairly concrete advice: never, ever allow yourself to be drawn into a conversation about politics or religion when there's alcohol going around, unless you are with close friends. People usually understand this, except for those who who are true bores in which case you can feel free to flame away as much as your bartender will allow.
posted by Scientist at 4:06 PM on September 21, 2010
Sometimes preserving a relationship is more important than being right.
posted by Ouisch at 4:47 PM on September 21, 2010
posted by Ouisch at 4:47 PM on September 21, 2010
You believe some things. A lot of things. If I asked you to list the things you believe, it would take a long time and would be a very long list. And if you and I, together went down that list item by item, and I asked you about each one, "Do you think that your belief about this is correct?" presumably you'd say yes every time. Because almost no one includes among their beliefs things they think aren't true.
But let's say that I didn't ask you about each of your beliefs individually. Let's say that instead, I asked you a more general question. Do you think that there's anything you believe that, if you had more facts or a better understanding of the topic or additional insight, you'd realize you were wrong about? That is, do you believe that within the set of your beliefs, there are some items that are incorrect? I would hope that the answer to this question is yes. Your set of beliefs is unique, and so if everything you believed were true, you'd be the only person ever in the history of the universe, now and forever, who has ever been right about everything. I would hope that you understand as a rational, but fallible human being, that the chances are vanishingly small that you're that one person in the entire universe who doesn't believe anything that isn't true. But if you knew which of your beliefs were wrong, you'd change them right now. The problem is that you know that some of your beliefs are false; you just don't know which ones.
Now apply that to your life. In any given situation, you have a belief about what the right answer to a question is. And you believe that your particular fact or opinion is correct in that case. However, you have to admit that your fact or opinion is part of a larger set of beliefs you hold, some of which are wrong, and you don't know for certain that this isn't one of them. Because it could be any of your beliefs that is wrong, and you know that at least one of them is, but you don't know which ones are.
I find that keeping all of this in mind helps me to annoy people less. Don't get me wrong. I'm still a pompous jerk sometimes about correcting people and expounding about stuff I think I know. I'm answering this very question as part of a pattern of thousands of such answers in which I believe that I hold the key others haven't grasped. But in the back of my mind, every time I open my mouth to speak, a tiny voice pipes up and says, "you could be wrong." I find that voice very humbling, in a good way.
posted by decathecting at 6:50 PM on September 21, 2010
But let's say that I didn't ask you about each of your beliefs individually. Let's say that instead, I asked you a more general question. Do you think that there's anything you believe that, if you had more facts or a better understanding of the topic or additional insight, you'd realize you were wrong about? That is, do you believe that within the set of your beliefs, there are some items that are incorrect? I would hope that the answer to this question is yes. Your set of beliefs is unique, and so if everything you believed were true, you'd be the only person ever in the history of the universe, now and forever, who has ever been right about everything. I would hope that you understand as a rational, but fallible human being, that the chances are vanishingly small that you're that one person in the entire universe who doesn't believe anything that isn't true. But if you knew which of your beliefs were wrong, you'd change them right now. The problem is that you know that some of your beliefs are false; you just don't know which ones.
Now apply that to your life. In any given situation, you have a belief about what the right answer to a question is. And you believe that your particular fact or opinion is correct in that case. However, you have to admit that your fact or opinion is part of a larger set of beliefs you hold, some of which are wrong, and you don't know for certain that this isn't one of them. Because it could be any of your beliefs that is wrong, and you know that at least one of them is, but you don't know which ones are.
I find that keeping all of this in mind helps me to annoy people less. Don't get me wrong. I'm still a pompous jerk sometimes about correcting people and expounding about stuff I think I know. I'm answering this very question as part of a pattern of thousands of such answers in which I believe that I hold the key others haven't grasped. But in the back of my mind, every time I open my mouth to speak, a tiny voice pipes up and says, "you could be wrong." I find that voice very humbling, in a good way.
posted by decathecting at 6:50 PM on September 21, 2010
Best answer: Remind yourself (over, and over...) to look for social cues that the person you're talking to is interested in continuing to talk about this subject. Is the person engaging in a back-and-forth discussion about the subject with you and appearing to enjoy it?
An IM conversation with my worst offender friend goes something like this:
Him: wall of text about water cooled PCs
Him: another long paragraph about water cooled PCs
Him: price comparison of some water cooled PCs
Him: graph showing how cool his system is running, now that it's water cooled
Me: That's nice, so... about that recent pop culture event...
Him: wall of text about water cooled PCs
If you're not sure, try dropping the topic, if the person actually wants to know more, they'll bring it back up again.
The last thing about this is that many people go non-committal when they recognize that no agreement can be reached about a subject. So really, it is a very, very strong sign that you need to change the topic.
posted by anaelith at 5:23 AM on September 22, 2010
An IM conversation with my worst offender friend goes something like this:
Him: wall of text about water cooled PCs
Him: another long paragraph about water cooled PCs
Him: price comparison of some water cooled PCs
Him: graph showing how cool his system is running, now that it's water cooled
Me: That's nice, so... about that recent pop culture event...
Him: wall of text about water cooled PCs
If you're not sure, try dropping the topic, if the person actually wants to know more, they'll bring it back up again.
The last thing about this is that many people go non-committal when they recognize that no agreement can be reached about a subject. So really, it is a very, very strong sign that you need to change the topic.
posted by anaelith at 5:23 AM on September 22, 2010
Response by poster: Holy smokes; there's enough practical knowledge and theory in this thread to make me ruminate for a long time. Thanks!
posted by fvox13 at 6:47 AM on September 22, 2010
posted by fvox13 at 6:47 AM on September 22, 2010
I'm not a black-white thinker and I'm not an INTJ, but I love information, and I care about what's accurate. However, in social situations, most people don't. At work, I have to negotiate this territory carefully. For many people this behavior is perceived not as didactic, but as being an asshole.
Prioritize. Move relationships up in the priority list. In order to connect, really listen to people. Fred may be wrong about the definition of a recession, but in listening, you may discover that Fred feels strongly about this because his Mom just lost her house.
You may be smart and well-informed, but many other people are, too. You will learn more if you listen, and you will form better relationships.
posted by theora55 at 7:06 AM on September 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
Prioritize. Move relationships up in the priority list. In order to connect, really listen to people. Fred may be wrong about the definition of a recession, but in listening, you may discover that Fred feels strongly about this because his Mom just lost her house.
You may be smart and well-informed, but many other people are, too. You will learn more if you listen, and you will form better relationships.
posted by theora55 at 7:06 AM on September 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
These things are perfectly fine; the problem is the way you relate to the outside world and interact with other people. This tends to be a bit of a boilerplate reply but How To Win Friends and Influence People deals with exactly this sort of behavior. Seriously, the entire book is pretty much about how to not be the sort of person you think you are.
One big thing? People don't need to be right about everything. They just don't. It's not important to them, being right would in no way better their lives, and if it is not important to them it is none of your business to correct them.
posted by griphus at 10:28 AM on September 21, 2010 [4 favorites]