Which European cities should two young backpackers visit?
September 19, 2010 1:37 PM Subscribe
I'm planning a summer in Europe with a friend and I'm wondering what you think of the preliminary city list...
We (two 18 year old males) are planning on going for 3 weeks in August, budget is about $2500 each (not including airfare). We'll be getting eurail passes and staying in hostels, possibly couchsurfing as well.
Here's our city list at the moment (based on our personal preferences): London, Paris, Bruges, Amsterdam, Berlin, Stockholm, Oslo -> Bergen (Bergensbanen train route)
Any suggestions? Advice from more experienced travelers is greatly appreciated.
We (two 18 year old males) are planning on going for 3 weeks in August, budget is about $2500 each (not including airfare). We'll be getting eurail passes and staying in hostels, possibly couchsurfing as well.
Here's our city list at the moment (based on our personal preferences): London, Paris, Bruges, Amsterdam, Berlin, Stockholm, Oslo -> Bergen (Bergensbanen train route)
Any suggestions? Advice from more experienced travelers is greatly appreciated.
If you'll be going to Stockholm, Oslo, and Bergen, it will be well worth your time to hit up Copenhagen too! I went last year on my own as an 18 year old female and had a wonderful time. My only regret was that I couldn't take advantage of the nightlife in Copenhagen fully since I was clearly a foreigner, female, and alone.
posted by astapasta24 at 1:52 PM on September 19, 2010
posted by astapasta24 at 1:52 PM on September 19, 2010
It depends what you want to do in these places, what's interesting to you in general and how long of a stay you're budgeting for each city. I, like freshwater, think this list of cities may be too long for 3 weeks, but I like to spend more than two or so days in places before getting on a train to somewhere else.
As a side point, I never felt unsafe in Copenhagen (female, foreigner and alone or with anyone), day or night. I cannot claim the same for London or Berlin - although they are both awesome and are definitely worthy of being on the list of cities to visit. Just be aware.
posted by kirstk at 2:15 PM on September 19, 2010
As a side point, I never felt unsafe in Copenhagen (female, foreigner and alone or with anyone), day or night. I cannot claim the same for London or Berlin - although they are both awesome and are definitely worthy of being on the list of cities to visit. Just be aware.
posted by kirstk at 2:15 PM on September 19, 2010
I agree with freshwater that you might want to cut some cities from the list. Years ago, I did Paris, Bruges, Amsterdam, Berlin, Prague, and Vienna in three weeks and it was too much. If I could do it over I would do the first four (or substitute something else for Berlin). Plus, if you leave Scandinavia out you could do a trip just in that area later on.
I remember when I did that first trip, that I wanted to see everything just in case I never made it back - but if you love to travel, you will always find a way to make it back.
posted by cabingirl at 2:23 PM on September 19, 2010
I remember when I did that first trip, that I wanted to see everything just in case I never made it back - but if you love to travel, you will always find a way to make it back.
posted by cabingirl at 2:23 PM on September 19, 2010
I'd second third the idea of dropping at least one city, although depending on your railpass you can do this on the go. But do agree on a city-ranking so you don't argue about it later (ie 'if we decide in Paris to stay another day, Oslo is the one we drop, Amsterdam does not get dropped at all')
Though they seem cheesy, the sort of bus tours that allow you to hop off at your whim, explore a historical site/landmark, and hop back on the next bus are great. You see a lot of the city, more than if you took the easier to navigate underground/Metro, you'll get exposed to things you might've glossed over in the tour book, etc.
If you're planning to go to a nightlife location in the city centre, plan on bar prices being considerably more than you anticipated. And opportunistic pickpockets like to target drunk tourists waiting for nightbuses, pretending to be other drunk nighttime revelers (instead of just bumping into you).
Hard to say much else without knowing your likes and dislikes, or main aims and priorities.
posted by K.P. at 2:26 PM on September 19, 2010
Though they seem cheesy, the sort of bus tours that allow you to hop off at your whim, explore a historical site/landmark, and hop back on the next bus are great. You see a lot of the city, more than if you took the easier to navigate underground/Metro, you'll get exposed to things you might've glossed over in the tour book, etc.
If you're planning to go to a nightlife location in the city centre, plan on bar prices being considerably more than you anticipated. And opportunistic pickpockets like to target drunk tourists waiting for nightbuses, pretending to be other drunk nighttime revelers (instead of just bumping into you).
Hard to say much else without knowing your likes and dislikes, or main aims and priorities.
posted by K.P. at 2:26 PM on September 19, 2010
Skip Oslo (I was just there a couple of weeks ago in a similar multy-city itinerary, and other than the fact that I got to see my friends, I wish I had left it out entirely). Seriously, it's a very small town and there's pretty much nothing worthwhile to do. Going out to eat or drink, if that's something you enjoy, or even having a beer with some fries in a street café is prohibitively expensive, especially so on a $120/day budget. Just to give you an idea, what is a $30 bottle of gin here costs more than $120 in Norway.
Go to Copenhagen instead. Copenhagen rocks. Even better, if you're there, check out Malmofestival (just across the bridge in Sweden) during the last week of August. It's fantastic as far as street festivals go – they really go all out when it comes to music – and completely free!
posted by halogen at 2:36 PM on September 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
Go to Copenhagen instead. Copenhagen rocks. Even better, if you're there, check out Malmofestival (just across the bridge in Sweden) during the last week of August. It's fantastic as far as street festivals go – they really go all out when it comes to music – and completely free!
posted by halogen at 2:36 PM on September 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
The number of cities is always the problem, there is some thing to be said for trying to keep things as free form as possible, if you get to a city and like it, stay longer, if not move on. Just trying to rush from one place to the next can make it feel like a shopping list and can get you fixated on the tick, tick, ticking of boxes and on to the next city so you lose sight of the city itself.
posted by biffa at 2:37 PM on September 19, 2010
posted by biffa at 2:37 PM on September 19, 2010
Response by poster: I'm definitely open to the idea of cutting a few cities from this list, I'm just not too sure which. Originally we were only going to travel in Scandinavia, so I'd really like to avoid cutting that part out.
We're mostly looking for cities where we can enjoy the sightseeing during the daytime and party it up at night with tourists and locals in our age group. I don't know if it helps much, but between my friend and I, we're proficient in French, Dutch and Swedish. I was hoping our language skills might help us be a bit less of the typical, vulnerable, North American teenage backpackers, but I can't say I based that assumption on any fact.
posted by csjc at 2:41 PM on September 19, 2010
We're mostly looking for cities where we can enjoy the sightseeing during the daytime and party it up at night with tourists and locals in our age group. I don't know if it helps much, but between my friend and I, we're proficient in French, Dutch and Swedish. I was hoping our language skills might help us be a bit less of the typical, vulnerable, North American teenage backpackers, but I can't say I based that assumption on any fact.
posted by csjc at 2:41 PM on September 19, 2010
I can't help but notice that OP's home city is Vancouver, BC. This means two things.
Travel time getting to and from Europe is not going to be inconsiderable. That's, what a 24 hour flight each way? And lots of jetlag. That means your three week trip is really more like 18 days.
I think you should definitely consider cutting some cities or maybe taking a more regional approach. For instance instead of traveling from major city to major city across the continent, what about sticking to (for example) northern Europe - London, Bruges, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Berlin? (well the route isn't efficient but you get the idea.) Or even more central, fly into Brussels, make Amsterdam your home base, and take side trips to Berlin and a chosen Scandinavian city.
Another issue is going to be exchange rate. London and all the Scandinavian cities are going to be crazy expensive. I've heard of $20USD pints of beer in Oslo. Can you afford to spend 20% of your trip budget on a few nights drinking in Scandinavia? That could be an exaggeration, but it's yet another reason to simplify your trip.
posted by Sara C. at 2:50 PM on September 19, 2010
Travel time getting to and from Europe is not going to be inconsiderable. That's, what a 24 hour flight each way? And lots of jetlag. That means your three week trip is really more like 18 days.
I think you should definitely consider cutting some cities or maybe taking a more regional approach. For instance instead of traveling from major city to major city across the continent, what about sticking to (for example) northern Europe - London, Bruges, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Berlin? (well the route isn't efficient but you get the idea.) Or even more central, fly into Brussels, make Amsterdam your home base, and take side trips to Berlin and a chosen Scandinavian city.
Another issue is going to be exchange rate. London and all the Scandinavian cities are going to be crazy expensive. I've heard of $20USD pints of beer in Oslo. Can you afford to spend 20% of your trip budget on a few nights drinking in Scandinavia? That could be an exaggeration, but it's yet another reason to simplify your trip.
posted by Sara C. at 2:50 PM on September 19, 2010
Travel time getting to and from Europe is not going to be inconsiderable. That's, what a 24 hour flight each way? And lots of jetlag.
Jet lag, definitely. But the distance is about 4700 miles, so the flight time is closer to 9 hours.
posted by Diggins at 3:00 PM on September 19, 2010
Jet lag, definitely. But the distance is about 4700 miles, so the flight time is closer to 9 hours.
posted by Diggins at 3:00 PM on September 19, 2010
Response by poster: I'll be travelling in the middle east in July and my Tel Aviv-London flight is paid for. I'll have a few days there before I meet my friend, so by 21 days I really meant 21 days. Starting from another city is definitely an option, but in any case I'm starting from London.
If it were solely up to me I'd spend more time in a city like Berlin where we could get more bang for our buck as opposed to Stockholm or Oslo, but my friend still needs convincing.
posted by csjc at 3:02 PM on September 19, 2010
If it were solely up to me I'd spend more time in a city like Berlin where we could get more bang for our buck as opposed to Stockholm or Oslo, but my friend still needs convincing.
posted by csjc at 3:02 PM on September 19, 2010
Still, that's a full travel day on each end, so your real usable time in Europe still comes to about 18 days. Maybe 19 if you are both unusually un-susceptible to jet lag.
(My mistake, btw - flight times are around 9 hours, but it's a 24 hour time span if you look at departure and arrival times.)
posted by Sara C. at 3:07 PM on September 19, 2010
(My mistake, btw - flight times are around 9 hours, but it's a 24 hour time span if you look at departure and arrival times.)
posted by Sara C. at 3:07 PM on September 19, 2010
Ugh, did not preview. Sorry.
If your friend needs convincing about not making it mostly a trip to Scandinavia, you should do a little research into costs and what that actually means for your budgets. Most of the Lonely Planet and Let's Go guides have decent guides to what a restaurant meal will cost in any given European city, as well as little sidebars with itemized lists of How Much X Costs In Norway. When he sees that a sandwich could cost $30 (or whatever, I'm totally making that number up), he might come around.
All of that said, if you guys can afford to spend the time in Scandinavia, go for it!
Also, even if you will arrive in London before your friend, do not underestimate the time it will take him to get himself sorted and beat back jetlag if he'll be meeting you from western Canada.
posted by Sara C. at 3:15 PM on September 19, 2010
If your friend needs convincing about not making it mostly a trip to Scandinavia, you should do a little research into costs and what that actually means for your budgets. Most of the Lonely Planet and Let's Go guides have decent guides to what a restaurant meal will cost in any given European city, as well as little sidebars with itemized lists of How Much X Costs In Norway. When he sees that a sandwich could cost $30 (or whatever, I'm totally making that number up), he might come around.
All of that said, if you guys can afford to spend the time in Scandinavia, go for it!
Also, even if you will arrive in London before your friend, do not underestimate the time it will take him to get himself sorted and beat back jetlag if he'll be meeting you from western Canada.
posted by Sara C. at 3:15 PM on September 19, 2010
Paris - Amsterdam - Hamburg - Copenhagen/Malmö - Gothenburg - Oslo - Bergen
posted by Sys Rq at 3:34 PM on September 19, 2010
posted by Sys Rq at 3:34 PM on September 19, 2010
If you're looking to party, I'm not sure that Bruges is your huckleberry. It's very photogenic, but so's the centre of Brussels, and there's more going on there than Bruges. Having said that (and even as someone who likes Brussels), I would recommend that if you reduce your target list, you should consider going directly from Paris to Amsterdam.
posted by Jakey at 3:39 PM on September 19, 2010
posted by Jakey at 3:39 PM on September 19, 2010
csic - If your friend is flying in from Vancouver, I'd suggest starting in Amsterdam - the flights are *usually* cheaper from YVR to AMS. (Not always.) You can also get a cheap flight from London to AMS to meet him there; plus that basically immediately cuts out an expensive city.
FYI: Beer prices from pintprice.com put Norway #2, Denmark #7 and France #9 in top ten most expensive countries for beer.
posted by kirstk at 3:46 PM on September 19, 2010
FYI: Beer prices from pintprice.com put Norway #2, Denmark #7 and France #9 in top ten most expensive countries for beer.
posted by kirstk at 3:46 PM on September 19, 2010
We're mostly looking for cities where we can enjoy the sightseeing during the daytime and party it up at night with tourists and locals in our age group.
You should definitely keep Berlin on your list then. Plenty of stuff to do/see in the day, and they know how to party. Especially in the summer! Plus it is a good cheap counterpoint to the Scandinavian cities.
posted by grapesaresour at 4:15 PM on September 19, 2010
You should definitely keep Berlin on your list then. Plenty of stuff to do/see in the day, and they know how to party. Especially in the summer! Plus it is a good cheap counterpoint to the Scandinavian cities.
posted by grapesaresour at 4:15 PM on September 19, 2010
I would also suggest ditching Bruges. I've been there a couple of times and enjoyed it as a romantic destination with my girlfriend. It's a beautiful place but is only worth a couple of days of your time in my humble opinion.
Berlin is worth spending longer in, it's cheap and there is a lot to do and see.
posted by jonesor at 4:27 PM on September 19, 2010
Berlin is worth spending longer in, it's cheap and there is a lot to do and see.
posted by jonesor at 4:27 PM on September 19, 2010
Which ever cities you choose TRAVEL LIGHT... OneBag has good tips and advice.
posted by dirm at 4:56 PM on September 19, 2010
posted by dirm at 4:56 PM on September 19, 2010
Onebag's advice is not super great for people under the age of 40-50. And, sadly, the site has not been updated in years. None of the luggage brands they recommend are even on the market anymore.
However, there are LOTS of good online resources for traveling light. Here's a video that's been making the rounds of all the nerdy blogs who care about this sort of thing. Travel forums like Lonely Planet also tend to have great advice and will be indispensable for planning your trip, anyway.
posted by Sara C. at 5:01 PM on September 19, 2010
However, there are LOTS of good online resources for traveling light. Here's a video that's been making the rounds of all the nerdy blogs who care about this sort of thing. Travel forums like Lonely Planet also tend to have great advice and will be indispensable for planning your trip, anyway.
posted by Sara C. at 5:01 PM on September 19, 2010
Also, if you are fairly into techie stuff, you might like to google the term "flashpacker".
posted by Sara C. at 5:01 PM on September 19, 2010
posted by Sara C. at 5:01 PM on September 19, 2010
By the way, I got carded in Norway when buying anything alcoholic other than beer or wine (I am 26 and the legal age for liquor consumption is 20). Something to keep in mind if you're there for the nightlife and would like anything other than beer.
posted by halogen at 5:06 PM on September 19, 2010
posted by halogen at 5:06 PM on September 19, 2010
After having read the comments above and with the restriction of three weeks, do only London, Paris, Amsterdam and Berlin. You won't regret it. And don't worry too much about jetlag - for many young people, a nine hour flight doesn't affect you much at all.
posted by turkeyphant at 6:21 PM on September 19, 2010
posted by turkeyphant at 6:21 PM on September 19, 2010
Skip Bruges. Paris is stunningly beautiful and an awesome city, but I can see making an argument for skipping it this time around. You will get back there in your lifetime. Stockholm is amazing.
posted by barnone at 6:36 PM on September 19, 2010
posted by barnone at 6:36 PM on September 19, 2010
And yeah, Oslo's cool but if you're pressed for time, you can pass it this trip.
London-Paris-Amsterdam-Berlin-Stockholm.
Spending 2 or 2.5 days in each place sucks. It's like speed dating all these amazing cities. 3 days is still a miniscule amount of time in each place but slightly better.
posted by barnone at 6:40 PM on September 19, 2010
London-Paris-Amsterdam-Berlin-Stockholm.
Spending 2 or 2.5 days in each place sucks. It's like speed dating all these amazing cities. 3 days is still a miniscule amount of time in each place but slightly better.
posted by barnone at 6:40 PM on September 19, 2010
I would concur with doing fewer trips, but fwiw I would highly recommend Barcelona and Istanbul for what you are after! Both of these are, IMO, more accessibly fun for a very short trip that wants to include partying, than Copenhagen. I did live in Istanbul though, so maybe that's not true, but Copenhagen was quite contained... Though also wonderful. Berlin would definitely make my list, too.
posted by jojobobo at 7:30 PM on September 19, 2010
posted by jojobobo at 7:30 PM on September 19, 2010
I would pick up a former communist country capital city ... just for 2 days ... as it will provide a nice counterpoint to "Western Europe".
(I mean other than Berlin).
Possibly Warsaw?
posted by jannw at 1:22 AM on September 20, 2010
(I mean other than Berlin).
Possibly Warsaw?
posted by jannw at 1:22 AM on September 20, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by freshwater at 1:46 PM on September 19, 2010 [1 favorite]