How to see each other and let go again with minimal drama?
September 15, 2010 8:37 PM Subscribe
So 5 weeks post breakup, the ex is coming to pick up his stuff this weekend. How do I maintain my composure and not get into discussing all the conflicting feelings that run through my head?
See previous questions for context. Tl;dr: First long term gay monogamous relationship. 5+ years. Engaged. His good friend who we all hang out with turns out to be more like a second boyfriend, although no physical cheating. This crisis gives us the opportunity to discuss the issues we'd been in denial about, that probably would have split us up down the line. He feels guilty, and is prone to rash decisions. I'm hurt almost to the breaking point, see that he is unable or unwilling to fight for us, and that pushes me over the edge.
The breakup discussion was completely open and loving. Seriously, although the whole situation sucks, it was probably as good as these things get. However, these things always hurt, and even in the most loving relationships, things go wrong and feelings get hurt. He dumped every responsibility of our life together on me, rent, pet, and having to sift all our clothes, cards, photos etc. apart over a period of weeks. I'm doing as well as can be expected, I think, but it's still rough at times.
We'd like to be friends, but I know that's way down the line. He wanted to remain in contact, but after a few emails where we hurt when we meant to try and heal, I think he's realized that's not such a good idea right now.
He's coming over this weekend to pick up the things he left behind (well over half of his belongings), and I'm a bit of a wreck thinking about it. I don't know what to expect. I don't know what he expects. I don't know if he'll be cold to me, or if he'll beg forgiveness and reconciliation. I do know that no matter what happens, this encounter will set the heartbreak clock back, both in terms of seeing him again, and the finality of all his things being out of my house.
I don't want to get back together with him. I can't be friends with him right now. I don't want to get into the things that went wrong during our relationship. I don't want to get into recriminations of how we've acted post breakup (eg, he really wishes I would talk to him, at one point tried to pin his ability to move on to my speaking to him, on the other hand, I'm hurt that he went to stay on the other guy's couch from mid August until the end of the month). I don't want to go on any of the rants I've built up in my head for weeks.
I feel dozens of conflicting emotions and desires, and I know we can't be friends or have contact until that dust settles. I'm going to ask for no contact at least until the new year, at which point he's free to check in, but must respect if I say "too soon!"
Hive Mind of heartbreak, lend me your strength! How do I get through this with a hug, a how are you, and an I wish you the best?
See previous questions for context. Tl;dr: First long term gay monogamous relationship. 5+ years. Engaged. His good friend who we all hang out with turns out to be more like a second boyfriend, although no physical cheating. This crisis gives us the opportunity to discuss the issues we'd been in denial about, that probably would have split us up down the line. He feels guilty, and is prone to rash decisions. I'm hurt almost to the breaking point, see that he is unable or unwilling to fight for us, and that pushes me over the edge.
The breakup discussion was completely open and loving. Seriously, although the whole situation sucks, it was probably as good as these things get. However, these things always hurt, and even in the most loving relationships, things go wrong and feelings get hurt. He dumped every responsibility of our life together on me, rent, pet, and having to sift all our clothes, cards, photos etc. apart over a period of weeks. I'm doing as well as can be expected, I think, but it's still rough at times.
We'd like to be friends, but I know that's way down the line. He wanted to remain in contact, but after a few emails where we hurt when we meant to try and heal, I think he's realized that's not such a good idea right now.
He's coming over this weekend to pick up the things he left behind (well over half of his belongings), and I'm a bit of a wreck thinking about it. I don't know what to expect. I don't know what he expects. I don't know if he'll be cold to me, or if he'll beg forgiveness and reconciliation. I do know that no matter what happens, this encounter will set the heartbreak clock back, both in terms of seeing him again, and the finality of all his things being out of my house.
I don't want to get back together with him. I can't be friends with him right now. I don't want to get into the things that went wrong during our relationship. I don't want to get into recriminations of how we've acted post breakup (eg, he really wishes I would talk to him, at one point tried to pin his ability to move on to my speaking to him, on the other hand, I'm hurt that he went to stay on the other guy's couch from mid August until the end of the month). I don't want to go on any of the rants I've built up in my head for weeks.
I feel dozens of conflicting emotions and desires, and I know we can't be friends or have contact until that dust settles. I'm going to ask for no contact at least until the new year, at which point he's free to check in, but must respect if I say "too soon!"
Hive Mind of heartbreak, lend me your strength! How do I get through this with a hug, a how are you, and an I wish you the best?
If you trust him, how about just letting him come when you're not there? Leave a note expressing how you feel, a bottle of wine, and an e/mail address where he can contact you when the time is right.
I suspect that the physical encounter, based on what you've said, might be a bit difficult.
Best wishes on this, it sounds like you're both striving to be kind, that is what will allow the friendship down the road.
posted by HuronBob at 8:41 PM on September 15, 2010 [7 favorites]
I suspect that the physical encounter, based on what you've said, might be a bit difficult.
Best wishes on this, it sounds like you're both striving to be kind, that is what will allow the friendship down the road.
posted by HuronBob at 8:41 PM on September 15, 2010 [7 favorites]
Can you have a neutral- friendly third party present? Someone to keep you both on your best behavior, and maybe help to pack.
posted by pickypicky at 8:42 PM on September 15, 2010
posted by pickypicky at 8:42 PM on September 15, 2010
Have you considered moving all the stuff to the place of a friend or third party, or having said friend or third party around when he comes to pick it up? If you don't want contact, and it won't help you, create a situation that avoids it.
posted by Paragon at 8:42 PM on September 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Paragon at 8:42 PM on September 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
Gaspode has it, and make sure the deal is simple: if you start doing/saying stupid things, your good friend's job is to get you into the other room as damage control, and then act as your proxy while you get your shit together. This should be a trusted friend who won't casually try to bond with your ex by inadvertently undermining you, of course.
posted by davejay at 8:43 PM on September 15, 2010
posted by davejay at 8:43 PM on September 15, 2010
I went through a VERY similar (though hetero) thing not 3 months ago. Basically, my advice is DON'T BE THERE. Get a friend to be there, (if you trust him) just tell him to leave the key under the rug. I know you want closure and whatnot, but give it some time. I'm able to talk to my ex about things now in a way that would've been impossible just a few months ago.
That "time heals all wounds" deal is quite accurate.
posted by lattiboy at 8:43 PM on September 15, 2010 [7 favorites]
That "time heals all wounds" deal is quite accurate.
posted by lattiboy at 8:43 PM on September 15, 2010 [7 favorites]
How do I get through this with a hug, a how are you, and an I wish you the best?
You expect too much from yourself.
Have someone else there with you, or maybe even without you.
posted by Green Eyed Monster at 8:54 PM on September 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
You expect too much from yourself.
Have someone else there with you, or maybe even without you.
posted by Green Eyed Monster at 8:54 PM on September 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
Don't be there, this is the type of thing that a good friend will understand and do for you. Best wishes, it does get easier down the line.
posted by cestmoi15 at 8:57 PM on September 15, 2010
posted by cestmoi15 at 8:57 PM on September 15, 2010
I agree with everyone who has said to either have a good friend present, or better yet, be absent for the occasion. It doesn't make you cowardly, or unkind. Rather, it is considerate: you are giving both of you a chance to really heal first and adjust to being not-with-eachother before having contact -- especially contact in such an emotionally-charged setting. This will go a long way towards you guys eventually (hopefully) being able to be friends.
If having a friend there or being absent is absolutely not possible, remember
1: You DON'T want to be with him any longer
2: You do care very much about each other
3: He is likely hurting as much as you are
4: You don't owe him anything at this time.
The 1st point is to remind yourself not to give in to any kind of "let's get back together" shennanigans. The 2nd and 3rd are there to remind you to give him the benefit of the doubt in case he says hurtful things, and to stop you from blurting out something you might regret. And the 4th reminds you that your relationship as partners is over, and so you get to be a little selfish again. You don't have to discuss anything, you don't owe any explanations. You're just there to give him back his stuff.
But really, try to at least have a friend present. I've been there, and it makes such an unexpectedly huge difference. I know it sucks. Hope it goes as easily as it can.
posted by miss_kitty_fantastico at 9:00 PM on September 15, 2010
If having a friend there or being absent is absolutely not possible, remember
1: You DON'T want to be with him any longer
2: You do care very much about each other
3: He is likely hurting as much as you are
4: You don't owe him anything at this time.
The 1st point is to remind yourself not to give in to any kind of "let's get back together" shennanigans. The 2nd and 3rd are there to remind you to give him the benefit of the doubt in case he says hurtful things, and to stop you from blurting out something you might regret. And the 4th reminds you that your relationship as partners is over, and so you get to be a little selfish again. You don't have to discuss anything, you don't owe any explanations. You're just there to give him back his stuff.
But really, try to at least have a friend present. I've been there, and it makes such an unexpectedly huge difference. I know it sucks. Hope it goes as easily as it can.
posted by miss_kitty_fantastico at 9:00 PM on September 15, 2010
Nthing that you don't need to be there. He made his decision and one of the drawbacks to that is that he doesn't get to dictate meeting up with you so he can feel better, at your expense.
posted by Jubey at 9:04 PM on September 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Jubey at 9:04 PM on September 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
I know I'm echoing people - I recommend being out of the house as well. It's just so much easier to not be there. It isn't cowardice; it's self-preservation. You don't owe him your presence there; he wasn't present in your relationship at the end. If you don't trust him, have a good friend there instead.
posted by studioaudience at 9:10 PM on September 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by studioaudience at 9:10 PM on September 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
I do know that no matter what happens, this encounter will set the heartbreak clock back, both in terms of seeing him again, and the finality of all his things being out of my house.
Start by not assuming your fears will come true. One of the hardest things to learn is that emotions are not facts.
Also have a friend do it unless you think he'll take stuff that is yours. Don't even be there. A friend's low-cost divorce settlement was "I'll be at a movie from 2-4 on Saturday, take what you think you're entitled to." He lost some good CDs though.
posted by Ironmouth at 9:11 PM on September 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Start by not assuming your fears will come true. One of the hardest things to learn is that emotions are not facts.
Also have a friend do it unless you think he'll take stuff that is yours. Don't even be there. A friend's low-cost divorce settlement was "I'll be at a movie from 2-4 on Saturday, take what you think you're entitled to." He lost some good CDs though.
posted by Ironmouth at 9:11 PM on September 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
1. Try to drop his stuff to him instead - then you can leave quicker and have awkward moments on the sidewalk instead of in your home (I have done this and was thankful, even though it took 3 car trips).
2. Have a neutral friend there with you.
3. Have somewhere to go (ie, a time limit. There's less time to chat and get emotional if there's a time limit like "we have to be out of here by 2pm!)
4. Have his stuff ready to go in one pile, corner, box, whatever it takes.
5. Stay business like, friendly, polite and cordial. Don't allow yourself to lapse into familiarities or affections! Say hello, let him in, get his stuff out, thank him, and say goodbye.
6. OR, don't be there, but definitely have a friend there to guide him and ensure he doesn't conduct himself inappropriately (like say, throwing out something sentimental of yours out of anger/grief/insanity. I'm just sayin'.)
I feel for you - these are never easy - but try to make the whole process as swift as possible, and more like a time-efficient house move than an opportunity to catch up. You are protecting yourself here and are very aware of what you need. I have had an ex call me out for being cold when I approached it the ways above, but I felt better about it.
posted by shazzam! at 9:16 PM on September 15, 2010
2. Have a neutral friend there with you.
3. Have somewhere to go (ie, a time limit. There's less time to chat and get emotional if there's a time limit like "we have to be out of here by 2pm!)
4. Have his stuff ready to go in one pile, corner, box, whatever it takes.
5. Stay business like, friendly, polite and cordial. Don't allow yourself to lapse into familiarities or affections! Say hello, let him in, get his stuff out, thank him, and say goodbye.
6. OR, don't be there, but definitely have a friend there to guide him and ensure he doesn't conduct himself inappropriately (like say, throwing out something sentimental of yours out of anger/grief/insanity. I'm just sayin'.)
I feel for you - these are never easy - but try to make the whole process as swift as possible, and more like a time-efficient house move than an opportunity to catch up. You are protecting yourself here and are very aware of what you need. I have had an ex call me out for being cold when I approached it the ways above, but I felt better about it.
posted by shazzam! at 9:16 PM on September 15, 2010
Sorry! Your fears will not come true. Shoulda previewed!
In short your fears are NOT facts!
posted by Ironmouth at 9:16 PM on September 15, 2010
In short your fears are NOT facts!
posted by Ironmouth at 9:16 PM on September 15, 2010
Response by poster: Thanks so far. I know that the best advice is to not be there, but I can't bring myself to do it. I know that locks out my best option for getting out of this with minimal heartbreak, but that's where I am. Working on getting a friend to be there, but there's only a few I would dare ask to shoulder such a responsibility.
Anyone else giving advice, please assume that we will be face to face, because as much of a glutton for punishment as that makes me, it's almost certainly going to be what happens.
posted by Ceci n'est pas un sockpuppet at 9:28 PM on September 15, 2010
Anyone else giving advice, please assume that we will be face to face, because as much of a glutton for punishment as that makes me, it's almost certainly going to be what happens.
posted by Ceci n'est pas un sockpuppet at 9:28 PM on September 15, 2010
I know that the best advice is to not be there, but I can't bring myself to do it.
I don't understand -- if you know we're giving the best advice, why wouldn't you follow it?
You're making this into a big undertaking, when it doesn't need to that. He is picking up some stuff. OK, a lot of stuff. But it's still just ... stuff.
Have as little to do with it as possible, whatever that entails.
posted by John Cohen at 9:35 PM on September 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
I don't understand -- if you know we're giving the best advice, why wouldn't you follow it?
You're making this into a big undertaking, when it doesn't need to that. He is picking up some stuff. OK, a lot of stuff. But it's still just ... stuff.
Have as little to do with it as possible, whatever that entails.
posted by John Cohen at 9:35 PM on September 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
Sorry: ... when it doesn't need to be that.
posted by John Cohen at 9:38 PM on September 15, 2010
posted by John Cohen at 9:38 PM on September 15, 2010
Thanks for coming back to respond.
You need to really examine what your goal is.
The "can't bring myself to do it" is confusing.... we don't know why you're saying that...for your sake, for his??? Therefore, we dont know how to respond to that.
And, the "only a few" comment... sounds like you're making excuses... Playing "yes but" (from the old transactional analysis" framework).
Speaking from 62 years of experience, you need to decide to let go, or acknowledge you're not ready to do so. Be honest with yourself.
peace...
posted by HuronBob at 9:41 PM on September 15, 2010
You need to really examine what your goal is.
The "can't bring myself to do it" is confusing.... we don't know why you're saying that...for your sake, for his??? Therefore, we dont know how to respond to that.
And, the "only a few" comment... sounds like you're making excuses... Playing "yes but" (from the old transactional analysis" framework).
Speaking from 62 years of experience, you need to decide to let go, or acknowledge you're not ready to do so. Be honest with yourself.
peace...
posted by HuronBob at 9:41 PM on September 15, 2010
Have a physical habit at the ready to focus on when the situation gets tense... a worry stone in your pocket, perhaps, or a plan to flex your toes rhythmically inside your shoes. Focus on those physical feelings to get you through the emotionally charged moments.
Come up with a multi-purpose neutral phrase you can use like a mantra that brooks no further discussion, e.g., "That's not possible. " when he inveigles you to talk, be friends, etc. Do not include a softening statement like "right now" because it just invites "well, when, then" and "but what if I" questions.
Rearrange the furniture now, perhaps in a way that allows you to put the ex's stuff in a single place/pile. It will underscore to you both that you're moving on.
posted by carmicha at 9:44 PM on September 15, 2010
Come up with a multi-purpose neutral phrase you can use like a mantra that brooks no further discussion, e.g., "That's not possible. " when he inveigles you to talk, be friends, etc. Do not include a softening statement like "right now" because it just invites "well, when, then" and "but what if I" questions.
Rearrange the furniture now, perhaps in a way that allows you to put the ex's stuff in a single place/pile. It will underscore to you both that you're moving on.
posted by carmicha at 9:44 PM on September 15, 2010
Okay, if you're set on being there, here's my advice.
(1) Separate things as much as possible, so that he's taking packed boxes. If you don't want to pack them, at least group his things together, out of the way.
(2) If he says he doesn't want something that's his & you don't want it, make him take it anyway. He can make the trip to Goodwill to drop off his unwanted belongings. That's not on you.
(3) Don't help him move things. Have another activity going on, preferably in a different room than where you stored his items.
(4) Make plans for about an hour or two after he's due to be there picking things up. This will keep things from spiralling into a loooong discussion or argument when you know you have to leave for something else.
(5) Stay over at a friend's house after he picks things up.
(6) When you go back the next day, have a friend come over and help you rearrange & redecorate. Reclaim the space.
It's rough, I know. Take care of yourself.
posted by studioaudience at 9:53 PM on September 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
(1) Separate things as much as possible, so that he's taking packed boxes. If you don't want to pack them, at least group his things together, out of the way.
(2) If he says he doesn't want something that's his & you don't want it, make him take it anyway. He can make the trip to Goodwill to drop off his unwanted belongings. That's not on you.
(3) Don't help him move things. Have another activity going on, preferably in a different room than where you stored his items.
(4) Make plans for about an hour or two after he's due to be there picking things up. This will keep things from spiralling into a loooong discussion or argument when you know you have to leave for something else.
(5) Stay over at a friend's house after he picks things up.
(6) When you go back the next day, have a friend come over and help you rearrange & redecorate. Reclaim the space.
It's rough, I know. Take care of yourself.
posted by studioaudience at 9:53 PM on September 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
"I know that the best advice is to not be there, but I can't bring myself to do it."
I'm sorry. I know breakups are hard, but the simple truth is, you have to find a way to not be there when he comes to pick up his stuff. Otherwise, you're just setting yourself up for disaster. Think about all of the ways this could easily go so horribly. It could leave you feeling even worse than you already do.
I know it's hard to not be there, but unless there's a reason why he can't pick up his stuff when you're not there, you're foolish to do otherwise. You're just asking for drama and heartbreak on top of heartbreak... or anger on top of heartbreak. Or worse.
Please take care of yourself. Better days are on the way!
posted by 2oh1 at 9:59 PM on September 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'm sorry. I know breakups are hard, but the simple truth is, you have to find a way to not be there when he comes to pick up his stuff. Otherwise, you're just setting yourself up for disaster. Think about all of the ways this could easily go so horribly. It could leave you feeling even worse than you already do.
I know it's hard to not be there, but unless there's a reason why he can't pick up his stuff when you're not there, you're foolish to do otherwise. You're just asking for drama and heartbreak on top of heartbreak... or anger on top of heartbreak. Or worse.
Please take care of yourself. Better days are on the way!
posted by 2oh1 at 9:59 PM on September 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I do need to examine my goals. All I know is that as much as the idea of seeing him hurts, the idea of not being there for him one last time hurts several degrees of magnitude more. I was always the caretaker in the relationship, and though I know and have expressed to him that I can't play that role any more, I feel like for us both to have closure and to accept the finality of the situation we need a final goodbye.
Re: "only a few" comment. You're totally right, it is a yes but. If thinking about this and asking the question has taught me anything, it's that I can't do it without somebody there. I will make it happen or postpone until I can.
As for logistics, the bulk of his stuff is packed/bagged/boxed up and in a pile ready to go. There's a few more things I need to get ready for him, but there won't be any issues on that front.
posted by Ceci n'est pas un sockpuppet at 10:00 PM on September 15, 2010
Re: "only a few" comment. You're totally right, it is a yes but. If thinking about this and asking the question has taught me anything, it's that I can't do it without somebody there. I will make it happen or postpone until I can.
As for logistics, the bulk of his stuff is packed/bagged/boxed up and in a pile ready to go. There's a few more things I need to get ready for him, but there won't be any issues on that front.
posted by Ceci n'est pas un sockpuppet at 10:00 PM on September 15, 2010
Here's the strategy that has worked best for me: imagine that your "real boyfriend" is coming to pick you up later. All the things that made this relationship not work? The love and appreciation that you couldn't quite get? This other man understands and loves you for just exactly the right reasons. Alternatively, if you are looking forward to some singles time to invest in yourself and your friendships, imagine what that looks like. The point is to counteract the feeling that this is a dramatic end of the world moment by actively envisioning a better future that awaits you.
posted by salvia at 10:00 PM on September 15, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by salvia at 10:00 PM on September 15, 2010 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: And on non-preview - rearranging and redecorating are in process, at least in the areas his things will be in.
posted by Ceci n'est pas un sockpuppet at 10:02 PM on September 15, 2010
posted by Ceci n'est pas un sockpuppet at 10:02 PM on September 15, 2010
Just to add one more sentence to my above comment: I have definitely kept myself just slightly aloof from a really painful situation by reminding myself that I deserved more, using the "your [real / new] boyfriend is coming to pick you up" mental image. Knowing that the lifeboat was about to arrive kept me from clinging to a sinking ship.
posted by salvia at 10:05 PM on September 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by salvia at 10:05 PM on September 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
"Don't be there" is the best advice; but if for some reason you can't take it... don't be there for him. I.e., this is not a get-together or an argument; it's him picking up stuff. You are in the other room really busy with something.
It will really help if you separate out his stuff and put it near the door; it will set the expectation that he's only there to move it out. Plus it'll be over faster.
posted by zompist at 10:10 PM on September 15, 2010
It will really help if you separate out his stuff and put it near the door; it will set the expectation that he's only there to move it out. Plus it'll be over faster.
posted by zompist at 10:10 PM on September 15, 2010
I feel like for us both to have closure and to accept the finality of the situation we need a final goodbye.
Even if that's true, why does your final goodbye need to be when he picks up his stuff? You could let him do this while you're not there, then see how you feel. If you still feel the need for a final goodbye, you can arrange it.
However, while I completely empathize your feeling that it just wouldn't be right not to have the closure of a final goodbye, I can tell you, at least in my experience, there really isn't a perfectly dignified way to do that without being overly dramatic. I'm not saying don't do it. But if you do, you may be courting drama.
There been a number of occasions when I've agonized over: "But how can our whole relationship end like this??!" But every one of those times, if I stopped and analyzed it, I would have been hard-pressed to say what a good conclusion to the relationship would have been.
posted by John Cohen at 10:16 PM on September 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Even if that's true, why does your final goodbye need to be when he picks up his stuff? You could let him do this while you're not there, then see how you feel. If you still feel the need for a final goodbye, you can arrange it.
However, while I completely empathize your feeling that it just wouldn't be right not to have the closure of a final goodbye, I can tell you, at least in my experience, there really isn't a perfectly dignified way to do that without being overly dramatic. I'm not saying don't do it. But if you do, you may be courting drama.
There been a number of occasions when I've agonized over: "But how can our whole relationship end like this??!" But every one of those times, if I stopped and analyzed it, I would have been hard-pressed to say what a good conclusion to the relationship would have been.
posted by John Cohen at 10:16 PM on September 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
I don't understand -- if you know we're giving the best advice, why wouldn't you follow it?
Love isn't remotely rational. If it was, the songs wouldn't be so good, or the poems. So it seems you're resigned to some madness and drama, or more to the point, drawn to it inexorably, by some hidden and powerful current. And any experienced swimmer will tell you, you can't fight a current.
You need to really examine what your goal is [...] you need to decide to let go, or acknowledge you're not ready to do so. Be honest with yourself.
This is excellent advice and it seems that you might well be acknowledging it. So where exactly would you like this current to take you? Somewhere you've been before (and likely worse for wear)? Or ummm ... what about over the rainbow?
posted by philip-random at 10:18 PM on September 15, 2010
Love isn't remotely rational. If it was, the songs wouldn't be so good, or the poems. So it seems you're resigned to some madness and drama, or more to the point, drawn to it inexorably, by some hidden and powerful current. And any experienced swimmer will tell you, you can't fight a current.
You need to really examine what your goal is [...] you need to decide to let go, or acknowledge you're not ready to do so. Be honest with yourself.
This is excellent advice and it seems that you might well be acknowledging it. So where exactly would you like this current to take you? Somewhere you've been before (and likely worse for wear)? Or ummm ... what about over the rainbow?
posted by philip-random at 10:18 PM on September 15, 2010
The friends you're thinking of asking - maybe ask all of them and have it be as lighthearted as can be. I know, that might sound really weird, but maybe treating it like a wake for the relationship would provide support for you, a sign to him that you're not wallowing, and put a positive memory on something that could otherwise be a tragic footnote.
Having been through similar situations in the past (as oh-so-many have), it sounds really appealing to have some friends over for beer & pizza/mimosas & samosas with upbeat tunes in the background for an event like that. Not to minimise it, but to reframe it completely and take away all the potential for sturm und drang. It would make it much easier to keep it light and make sure it doesn't devolve into a drama fest.
Regardless, the having a friend be there thing is probably the best of all your options, so do ask at least one. I doubt very many true friends would consider a request like that to be a burden and many would in fact invite the opportunity to support someone with such a simple gesture as being present. And reward them for it - do provide their favourite beverage & snack, or take them out to eat after. That should mitigate any burdensome feelings.
Good on you for taking the hard step, for being brave enough to take care of yourself and preserve your self-worth with such decisiveness! May the heart ache ease soon and better times begin immediately.
posted by batmonkey at 10:32 PM on September 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Having been through similar situations in the past (as oh-so-many have), it sounds really appealing to have some friends over for beer & pizza/mimosas & samosas with upbeat tunes in the background for an event like that. Not to minimise it, but to reframe it completely and take away all the potential for sturm und drang. It would make it much easier to keep it light and make sure it doesn't devolve into a drama fest.
Regardless, the having a friend be there thing is probably the best of all your options, so do ask at least one. I doubt very many true friends would consider a request like that to be a burden and many would in fact invite the opportunity to support someone with such a simple gesture as being present. And reward them for it - do provide their favourite beverage & snack, or take them out to eat after. That should mitigate any burdensome feelings.
Good on you for taking the hard step, for being brave enough to take care of yourself and preserve your self-worth with such decisiveness! May the heart ache ease soon and better times begin immediately.
posted by batmonkey at 10:32 PM on September 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Love isn't remotely rational. If it was, the songs wouldn't be so good, or the poems.
I agree, the songs and poems aren't good because they're based on rational decision-making. They're good because they're full of drama and unbridled emotion. Which is exactly what the OP doesn't need.
posted by John Cohen at 10:36 PM on September 15, 2010
I agree, the songs and poems aren't good because they're based on rational decision-making. They're good because they're full of drama and unbridled emotion. Which is exactly what the OP doesn't need.
posted by John Cohen at 10:36 PM on September 15, 2010
Response by poster: My last response (at least for a few hours):
My feeling is that as long as I have a friend present and lay down some kind but firm ground rules in my scheduling email to the ex, it will be ok. Yes it will hurt, but knowing how much we still love each other (as people who basically grew up together, if no longer as partners), and knowing that no matter what happens I will be firm in no contact until the new year at least, I think it will be much better for each of us and our healing process than forcing him to slink in and out alone.
posted by Ceci n'est pas un sockpuppet at 10:49 PM on September 15, 2010
My feeling is that as long as I have a friend present and lay down some kind but firm ground rules in my scheduling email to the ex, it will be ok. Yes it will hurt, but knowing how much we still love each other (as people who basically grew up together, if no longer as partners), and knowing that no matter what happens I will be firm in no contact until the new year at least, I think it will be much better for each of us and our healing process than forcing him to slink in and out alone.
posted by Ceci n'est pas un sockpuppet at 10:49 PM on September 15, 2010
Okay I have to agree with the others for you not to be there, but I also understand that sometimes circumstances are problematic. Hopefully yours is not that you just are dead set on being there.
Here are the dos and don'ts in my opinion:
DO NOT
* Offer a drink or snack or anything that may keep him there for any longer than what he needs to do.
* Start a conversation at all. Be pleasant (not warm), but also remote (not cold).
* Answer relationship questions if he brings them up. Simply smile and say "I just don't know anything right now. I need time for myself."
* Thank him as he leaves. It's a habit for some people. It's important for a variety of reasons, but mostly so you do not sound as though you are trying to please him.
* Allow your emotions to overwhelm you. If you feel a lump in your throat, or you want to say something that you know you shouldn't, take a deep cleansing breath and count to ten. Keep mentally counting if you have to.
DO
* Give him extra personal space when he enters. Imagine that he has some terrible antibiotic resistant disease.
* If he wears cologne, imagine that he has two of those diseases and allow even more space (I'm seriously pheromone driven).
* Leave him alone in the room. You don't want to hover over him. Get on the computer or do something to keep yourself busy and aloof.
* Make your best effort not to cry. I cannot say absolutely do not because I myself am a crier. I cry over commercials for gosh sakes! No one would be surprised if I cried because my flowers dried out. Hopefully you're not like that, but you get the idea. Try not to cry.
That's all I can think of at the moment. If anything else pops into my head, I'll post back.
I sincerely wish you the best of luck. This is never easy.
posted by magnoliasouth at 10:56 PM on September 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Here are the dos and don'ts in my opinion:
DO NOT
* Offer a drink or snack or anything that may keep him there for any longer than what he needs to do.
* Start a conversation at all. Be pleasant (not warm), but also remote (not cold).
* Answer relationship questions if he brings them up. Simply smile and say "I just don't know anything right now. I need time for myself."
* Thank him as he leaves. It's a habit for some people. It's important for a variety of reasons, but mostly so you do not sound as though you are trying to please him.
* Allow your emotions to overwhelm you. If you feel a lump in your throat, or you want to say something that you know you shouldn't, take a deep cleansing breath and count to ten. Keep mentally counting if you have to.
DO
* Give him extra personal space when he enters. Imagine that he has some terrible antibiotic resistant disease.
* If he wears cologne, imagine that he has two of those diseases and allow even more space (I'm seriously pheromone driven).
* Leave him alone in the room. You don't want to hover over him. Get on the computer or do something to keep yourself busy and aloof.
* Make your best effort not to cry. I cannot say absolutely do not because I myself am a crier. I cry over commercials for gosh sakes! No one would be surprised if I cried because my flowers dried out. Hopefully you're not like that, but you get the idea. Try not to cry.
That's all I can think of at the moment. If anything else pops into my head, I'll post back.
I sincerely wish you the best of luck. This is never easy.
posted by magnoliasouth at 10:56 PM on September 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
You're a fully functional adult with a job and social life, yes?
With your busy schedule, why the hell would you base your day around his needs?
Leave a key under the mat, tell him to take what he needs and mail you back the key.
posted by bardic at 10:57 PM on September 15, 2010
With your busy schedule, why the hell would you base your day around his needs?
Leave a key under the mat, tell him to take what he needs and mail you back the key.
posted by bardic at 10:57 PM on September 15, 2010
All I know is that as much as the idea of seeing him hurts, the idea of not being there for him one last time hurts several degrees of magnitude more.
Unfortunately the advice to not be there is very sound, but it does not fit your compulsive pattern as the love addict - taking care of the relationship over yourself. Examples include the disproportionate amount of attention you give to executing the proper hug and goodbye; your unrealistic expectations for unconditional positive regard from the other person ("he is unable or unwilling to fight for us, and that pushes me over the edge"); and the fact that you don't value yourself while you're in the relationship ("he dumped every responsibility of our life together on me").
Wiki defines codependency as "a tendency to behave in overly passive or excessively caretaking ways that negatively impact one's relationships and quality of life."
You should really pick up and read this book by Pia Mellody. I can relate to what you're going through.
posted by phaedon at 12:18 AM on September 16, 2010
Unfortunately the advice to not be there is very sound, but it does not fit your compulsive pattern as the love addict - taking care of the relationship over yourself. Examples include the disproportionate amount of attention you give to executing the proper hug and goodbye; your unrealistic expectations for unconditional positive regard from the other person ("he is unable or unwilling to fight for us, and that pushes me over the edge"); and the fact that you don't value yourself while you're in the relationship ("he dumped every responsibility of our life together on me").
Wiki defines codependency as "a tendency to behave in overly passive or excessively caretaking ways that negatively impact one's relationships and quality of life."
You should really pick up and read this book by Pia Mellody. I can relate to what you're going through.
posted by phaedon at 12:18 AM on September 16, 2010
For me (were I in your situation), it would be best to have a friend or two with me, instead of not being there at all. Why? Because it would be more miserable for me to be waiting it out somewhere with my head filled of images of what the house would look like once I return, wondering what he took, if he left a note, blah, blah.
But I'd have plans to go out with the friend(s) to brunch afterward — pretty much as soon as the ex leaves — instead of hanging out in the newly "emptier" space. Then, after brunch, on my way home, I'd pick up some flowers, and maybe another special item for the house, something lovely: the beginning of the rehabilitation of my place to be my place, warm and soothing.
Under no circumstances would I meet with him there alone.
posted by taz at 12:50 AM on September 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
But I'd have plans to go out with the friend(s) to brunch afterward — pretty much as soon as the ex leaves — instead of hanging out in the newly "emptier" space. Then, after brunch, on my way home, I'd pick up some flowers, and maybe another special item for the house, something lovely: the beginning of the rehabilitation of my place to be my place, warm and soothing.
Under no circumstances would I meet with him there alone.
posted by taz at 12:50 AM on September 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
I feel like for us both to have closure and to accept the finality of the situation we need a final goodbye.
The goodbye starts when you walk away. Perhaps what you mean is that you want a final moment of relationship.
posted by vitabellosi at 3:11 AM on September 16, 2010 [4 favorites]
The goodbye starts when you walk away. Perhaps what you mean is that you want a final moment of relationship.
posted by vitabellosi at 3:11 AM on September 16, 2010 [4 favorites]
As others have said, try to have a friend there with you or instead of you when this happens. Don't force yourself to go through it alone.
One word of encouragement -- after my last heartbreak, my ex came by to return my things and collect his. It was an awkward and uncomfortable exchange (we ended up going to dinner as well) but not unbearable and certainly not as painful as I had imagined. And the minute he walked out the door, I felt an unbelievable sense of closure that I had not expected. I wasn't over the relationship by far at that point, but something about not having his stuff staring me in the face anymore made it much easier on me from that point forward.
Good luck.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 6:38 AM on September 16, 2010
One word of encouragement -- after my last heartbreak, my ex came by to return my things and collect his. It was an awkward and uncomfortable exchange (we ended up going to dinner as well) but not unbearable and certainly not as painful as I had imagined. And the minute he walked out the door, I felt an unbelievable sense of closure that I had not expected. I wasn't over the relationship by far at that point, but something about not having his stuff staring me in the face anymore made it much easier on me from that point forward.
Good luck.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 6:38 AM on September 16, 2010
So, your question is really "How do I let go?"
You want to be there, hoping that there's a way for it to be different. It's going to be difficult. It's okay to cry, yell, be angry, miserable, etc. In the long run, it will be easier for you not to be there.
posted by theora55 at 7:10 AM on September 16, 2010
You want to be there, hoping that there's a way for it to be different. It's going to be difficult. It's okay to cry, yell, be angry, miserable, etc. In the long run, it will be easier for you not to be there.
posted by theora55 at 7:10 AM on September 16, 2010
I think the best thing you can do, given the constraints you've determined (which I'll try to respect) - is to get as much of his stuff into one location as possible -- even if that means setting back your own needs for the space until then. The faster this can get done, the less opportunity you have to slip up and feel worse. Trust me, as heartbreaking as it may seem, packing up his stuff has a strong possibility of giving you the closure you need.
If you can't bring yourself to helping him move his stuff out, which is what I would do (have done...or more accurately have had done to me) in the situation, since you are getting things of your own ready - you mention redecorating/rearranging -- give yourself tasks to do while he is moving stuff out. Don't sit there and watch him do it because it will make both of you uncomfortable since you are not ready to have any deep and meaningful talks.
If he starts to insist on talking, cut it off immediately; don't try to talk yourself into it by thinking "well, we can talk about this but not that" because "that" will more than likely come up. You (as in "probably no one but definitely not someone in your situation") can't navigate discussions like that real-time, so best to not let it happen at all. If he insists, tell him clearly -- "Look, I really wanted to be here why you moved your stuff out so that we could have this moment together because I feel it's the thing I need to do to help us move on completely, but if you can't do that, I'm going to have to leave."
Hopefully, he will respect your demands. If not, follow through with your threat.
This whole situation could one where you're worrying for naught if you don't let it get out of hand. If you truly want to do so, you're going to have to make one last "relationship caretaker" sacrifice and play hard ball. It perhaps might be co-dependent, but this also might not be the situation in which you can change the way your relationship has functioned previously. You can't start doing otherwise later -- and it sounds like you have by insisting on limits on your contact (good for you) -- but for now, you have to do what works for you, even if it isn't what the rest of the world would determine as healthy. Your relationship is unique and since it involves you, you have to do what works. Be strong, try to relax, and remember that you are loved -- by your friends, your family, and even this guy who is moving his stuff out. Remembering that - and acting accordingly - will help you eventually be able to have a new kind of relationship with him if that's what you eventually can handle. It's just going to take a couple of harsher steps than you're comfortable with.
Good luck and take care.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 8:17 AM on September 16, 2010
If you can't bring yourself to helping him move his stuff out, which is what I would do (have done...or more accurately have had done to me) in the situation, since you are getting things of your own ready - you mention redecorating/rearranging -- give yourself tasks to do while he is moving stuff out. Don't sit there and watch him do it because it will make both of you uncomfortable since you are not ready to have any deep and meaningful talks.
If he starts to insist on talking, cut it off immediately; don't try to talk yourself into it by thinking "well, we can talk about this but not that" because "that" will more than likely come up. You (as in "probably no one but definitely not someone in your situation") can't navigate discussions like that real-time, so best to not let it happen at all. If he insists, tell him clearly -- "Look, I really wanted to be here why you moved your stuff out so that we could have this moment together because I feel it's the thing I need to do to help us move on completely, but if you can't do that, I'm going to have to leave."
Hopefully, he will respect your demands. If not, follow through with your threat.
This whole situation could one where you're worrying for naught if you don't let it get out of hand. If you truly want to do so, you're going to have to make one last "relationship caretaker" sacrifice and play hard ball. It perhaps might be co-dependent, but this also might not be the situation in which you can change the way your relationship has functioned previously. You can't start doing otherwise later -- and it sounds like you have by insisting on limits on your contact (good for you) -- but for now, you have to do what works for you, even if it isn't what the rest of the world would determine as healthy. Your relationship is unique and since it involves you, you have to do what works. Be strong, try to relax, and remember that you are loved -- by your friends, your family, and even this guy who is moving his stuff out. Remembering that - and acting accordingly - will help you eventually be able to have a new kind of relationship with him if that's what you eventually can handle. It's just going to take a couple of harsher steps than you're comfortable with.
Good luck and take care.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 8:17 AM on September 16, 2010
but I can't bring myself to do it.
Just be clear--you can bring yourself to do it. It might be painful either way, but it is a possibility. Make sure you realize that.
posted by Ironmouth at 9:14 AM on September 16, 2010
Just be clear--you can bring yourself to do it. It might be painful either way, but it is a possibility. Make sure you realize that.
posted by Ironmouth at 9:14 AM on September 16, 2010
I have this great idea for a business, I swear to god I'm going to do it one day. Basically a big huge warehouse - slash - exchange service.
In case of a break-up, you simply bring the other party's stuff to us, we issue a claim ticket, you mail the claim ticket to the other party. The other party then comes in at their leisure to pick up their stuff.
Wouldn't that be awesome? It would be awesome.
The point being, no one is expected or required to be there when the other party comes to get their stuff. I have known people who have boxed everything up and mailed it, boxed it up and left it on the doorstep when the occupant wasn't home (either party), and given it to a mutual friend to pass along.
If he REALLY needs to come over and pack everything himself, you're also within your rights to have a friend be there with you (to keep things civil/disengaged), and even to staff the place while you leave for the afternoon.
A good friend will be more than happy to do this for you. These are the kinds of things we do for each other, because everyone's been there - or will be - or may be again.
posted by ErikaB at 9:25 AM on September 16, 2010
In case of a break-up, you simply bring the other party's stuff to us, we issue a claim ticket, you mail the claim ticket to the other party. The other party then comes in at their leisure to pick up their stuff.
Wouldn't that be awesome? It would be awesome.
The point being, no one is expected or required to be there when the other party comes to get their stuff. I have known people who have boxed everything up and mailed it, boxed it up and left it on the doorstep when the occupant wasn't home (either party), and given it to a mutual friend to pass along.
If he REALLY needs to come over and pack everything himself, you're also within your rights to have a friend be there with you (to keep things civil/disengaged), and even to staff the place while you leave for the afternoon.
A good friend will be more than happy to do this for you. These are the kinds of things we do for each other, because everyone's been there - or will be - or may be again.
posted by ErikaB at 9:25 AM on September 16, 2010
Response by poster: Hi all, just wanted to update now that it's all gone down.
After making sure a very good friend was available, I emailed the ex and set up the exchange. I told him that I couldn't discuss the relationship, that I'd give him a hug and a sad smile, but that was the most I could manage. Set out some other ground rules, like what I had set aside he had to take out of the place, and that if it was too difficult to see him I would have to leave.
His response was very short, like "all right, I wish things didn't have to be this way but I guess they do. I don't understand this but that's my problem I guess." Which of course was not easy, not knowing what he wanted, but being firm in what I needed. I felt guilty for being cold, and ranted and raved and cried for a long time.
Today I wrote him a kind but firm letter, and went out for lunch with a large group of friends from an old Internet group, which helped my self esteem a lot. Went out, bought some cheap and amazing art to hang to make the place my own.
Came home, got the rest of his things ready, and cried and ranted some more, until there was no energy left in me to cry and rant. My friend came over, we went over what I needed him for, and there was a knock on the door.
He came in and I hugged him, breaking it off when we seemed about to break into tears. Within minutes the three of us were laughing. I gave him the letter, called a cab, and we got the stuff out. In between trips when we had a moment alone, I told him I was sorry for being so hard, but that I had to be to prevent us from hurting each other further. Him coming in and getting us laughing was a big help, and made it easier to see a time when we could be friends.
Some of you are getting worried for me now, but I am firm in no contact for the foreseeable future. At minimum until the new year, but I'm not going to put any pressure on myself to be ready by then. He can find his own way, I know he can. And if we can't be friends after a long period of time apart, we definitely can't be friends now. I know that no ending will be perfect, and every ending will have loose ends. And this does. But I can and will leave them be.
Now the real grieving begins, but I can deal. He's out of my life, and it's awful. He's out of my life, and it's so freeing. I've been so strung out and tired for weeks, and now I can rest and heal.
Thank you all for all your advice in this and other threads. I didn't take all the advice offered, because I knew it wasn't right for me, but I drew much strength from all of it. Not seeing him just wasn't an option for me, because I knew it would hurt so much more. The advice you gave was great, and in so many cases it would be the best. But not this one. We always said we were so lucky to have found each other, and now I think we are both so lucky that we can love each other enough to let go.
posted by Ceci n'est pas un sockpuppet at 10:36 PM on September 18, 2010
After making sure a very good friend was available, I emailed the ex and set up the exchange. I told him that I couldn't discuss the relationship, that I'd give him a hug and a sad smile, but that was the most I could manage. Set out some other ground rules, like what I had set aside he had to take out of the place, and that if it was too difficult to see him I would have to leave.
His response was very short, like "all right, I wish things didn't have to be this way but I guess they do. I don't understand this but that's my problem I guess." Which of course was not easy, not knowing what he wanted, but being firm in what I needed. I felt guilty for being cold, and ranted and raved and cried for a long time.
Today I wrote him a kind but firm letter, and went out for lunch with a large group of friends from an old Internet group, which helped my self esteem a lot. Went out, bought some cheap and amazing art to hang to make the place my own.
Came home, got the rest of his things ready, and cried and ranted some more, until there was no energy left in me to cry and rant. My friend came over, we went over what I needed him for, and there was a knock on the door.
He came in and I hugged him, breaking it off when we seemed about to break into tears. Within minutes the three of us were laughing. I gave him the letter, called a cab, and we got the stuff out. In between trips when we had a moment alone, I told him I was sorry for being so hard, but that I had to be to prevent us from hurting each other further. Him coming in and getting us laughing was a big help, and made it easier to see a time when we could be friends.
Some of you are getting worried for me now, but I am firm in no contact for the foreseeable future. At minimum until the new year, but I'm not going to put any pressure on myself to be ready by then. He can find his own way, I know he can. And if we can't be friends after a long period of time apart, we definitely can't be friends now. I know that no ending will be perfect, and every ending will have loose ends. And this does. But I can and will leave them be.
Now the real grieving begins, but I can deal. He's out of my life, and it's awful. He's out of my life, and it's so freeing. I've been so strung out and tired for weeks, and now I can rest and heal.
Thank you all for all your advice in this and other threads. I didn't take all the advice offered, because I knew it wasn't right for me, but I drew much strength from all of it. Not seeing him just wasn't an option for me, because I knew it would hurt so much more. The advice you gave was great, and in so many cases it would be the best. But not this one. We always said we were so lucky to have found each other, and now I think we are both so lucky that we can love each other enough to let go.
posted by Ceci n'est pas un sockpuppet at 10:36 PM on September 18, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by gaspode at 8:40 PM on September 15, 2010 [10 favorites]