Joan Holloway, not Jo from the Facts of Life
September 12, 2010 5:16 PM Subscribe
I am starting a new job. I need help being the kind of person I want to be. Or at least making people think I am.
I am a young woman in my late twenties. In the past when I've worked with men, I've been myself, which is the product of being raised by an independent female who encouraged me to act less feminine (not because of feminist values but because, in my culture, girls who talk to boys who aren't related to them are considered slutty -- or at least this is the impression my mother gave me and we were very isolated from people in general as I later realized she didn't know how to relate to people and decided everybody (all male and female relatives who weren't her parents or siblings were beneath her and not worth engaging with)). I also attended all girls schools through college.
I do great in interviews, and I think I appear lovely and smart and they think I would be fine to be around.
I'm great at interviews because it's a limited amount of time. Over time, I think I end up just seeming unreadable
or not normal or interesting (though I'm fine with dealing with women) and I want to be the kind of person people (men) want to be around. More specifically, I want to fit in and seem like I belong.
Generally, though, since men have made me nervous and in turn, I make them feel weird and they don't deal with me as much. In my last job, I smiled and was just sweet and deferent, though obviously reserved in an almost slightly Victorian/old fashioned way (my childhood was full of Little Women and Anne of Green Gables and made up rules on how women can talk to men and what some imaginary society will think. It's dumb but it's there.) I think I actually appeared boring and I think I decided it was probably better to seem boring than to seem weird or bitchy or tomboyish.
Two jobs ago, I worked in an all male (non sales, mainly dweebs and nerds who had weird personalities) environment, and I think I just seemed completely asexual almost and like a tomboy because I thought it would help me get ahead professionally if I was efficient and sexless. When a new assistant (below me in title) started, she got handed tons more responsibility and got to work on a project I would have wanted to have worked on. She was cute, knew how to talk to guys using both her charm and her femininity,and the project director had a crush (the whole office knew about it) on her. I'm better looking than her but her personality made her really sparkle. In contrast, I was just a personality-less workhorse. It would have helped me to have been more feminine and womanly but I don't know how. Being myself doesn't help. Also, I don't want to appear inappropriately flirtatious (which, unfortunately, I don't even know how). But the female colleagues I've had seem to know how to do both and get rewarded for it.
Now, this would be easy if I were a naturally cheerful and upbeat person, but my childhood made me weary and deeply sad, and even though everything is lovely now and I'm very content, I've often been told there's a sadness in my eyes. And there is, and I haven't been able to hide it, so a part of me is reserved because I'm scared I'll seem weird.
This new job is really important to my new career and I want someone to want to help me and I want them to really like me (I don't need them to really genuinely like me, because I've noticed that the idea of someone tends to be more attractive than the real person. I want them to like whatever idea they can have of me that an motivate them to want to help me. I just can't figure out what that is or how to to that. I know that being charming and attractive is part of it, but I don't know how to work it.)
So, it boils down to: How do I act in a new job in an all male (sales-oriented) environment when I tend to get nervous around men and don't know how to deal with them?
Also, I know in an ideal world work and promotions and getting ahead should just depend on the quality of my work, but the quality of my work has always been fantastic and I plan to keep it that way. I just need to tweak how I act so I can get ahead.
I am a young woman in my late twenties. In the past when I've worked with men, I've been myself, which is the product of being raised by an independent female who encouraged me to act less feminine (not because of feminist values but because, in my culture, girls who talk to boys who aren't related to them are considered slutty -- or at least this is the impression my mother gave me and we were very isolated from people in general as I later realized she didn't know how to relate to people and decided everybody (all male and female relatives who weren't her parents or siblings were beneath her and not worth engaging with)). I also attended all girls schools through college.
I do great in interviews, and I think I appear lovely and smart and they think I would be fine to be around.
I'm great at interviews because it's a limited amount of time. Over time, I think I end up just seeming unreadable
or not normal or interesting (though I'm fine with dealing with women) and I want to be the kind of person people (men) want to be around. More specifically, I want to fit in and seem like I belong.
Generally, though, since men have made me nervous and in turn, I make them feel weird and they don't deal with me as much. In my last job, I smiled and was just sweet and deferent, though obviously reserved in an almost slightly Victorian/old fashioned way (my childhood was full of Little Women and Anne of Green Gables and made up rules on how women can talk to men and what some imaginary society will think. It's dumb but it's there.) I think I actually appeared boring and I think I decided it was probably better to seem boring than to seem weird or bitchy or tomboyish.
Two jobs ago, I worked in an all male (non sales, mainly dweebs and nerds who had weird personalities) environment, and I think I just seemed completely asexual almost and like a tomboy because I thought it would help me get ahead professionally if I was efficient and sexless. When a new assistant (below me in title) started, she got handed tons more responsibility and got to work on a project I would have wanted to have worked on. She was cute, knew how to talk to guys using both her charm and her femininity,and the project director had a crush (the whole office knew about it) on her. I'm better looking than her but her personality made her really sparkle. In contrast, I was just a personality-less workhorse. It would have helped me to have been more feminine and womanly but I don't know how. Being myself doesn't help. Also, I don't want to appear inappropriately flirtatious (which, unfortunately, I don't even know how). But the female colleagues I've had seem to know how to do both and get rewarded for it.
Now, this would be easy if I were a naturally cheerful and upbeat person, but my childhood made me weary and deeply sad, and even though everything is lovely now and I'm very content, I've often been told there's a sadness in my eyes. And there is, and I haven't been able to hide it, so a part of me is reserved because I'm scared I'll seem weird.
This new job is really important to my new career and I want someone to want to help me and I want them to really like me (I don't need them to really genuinely like me, because I've noticed that the idea of someone tends to be more attractive than the real person. I want them to like whatever idea they can have of me that an motivate them to want to help me. I just can't figure out what that is or how to to that. I know that being charming and attractive is part of it, but I don't know how to work it.)
So, it boils down to: How do I act in a new job in an all male (sales-oriented) environment when I tend to get nervous around men and don't know how to deal with them?
Also, I know in an ideal world work and promotions and getting ahead should just depend on the quality of my work, but the quality of my work has always been fantastic and I plan to keep it that way. I just need to tweak how I act so I can get ahead.
You might find this post, well, interesting. But there is advice to be found in the comments.
posted by peagood at 5:55 PM on September 12, 2010
posted by peagood at 5:55 PM on September 12, 2010
Focusing on the people in your office environment purely on the basis of gender is a little... not helpful. From everything you've written, it seems like the real question is "How can I be a more outgoing, engaging person?"
That doesn't have anything to do with gender or heterosexuality unless you make it so. You can ask someone how their weekend was, or say thank you with a smile, or tell a co-worker a joke without worrying that they'll think you're flirting or whatever it is you're concerned about. If they misinterpret something, that's their issue, not yours.
In general your post seems to suggest you're spending a lot of time constructing or rather avoiding different personalities because you're afraid they'll make you seem bitchy or tomboyish or flirtatious or what have you. This is not healthy, and what happens when you're afraid to do anything is you do nothing, and end up being perceived as personality-less.
Is there something you can do that will help you be more comfortable with people, preferably by forcing you to interact with them? A Meetup.com group or a support group or an improc class or toastmasters might be helpful.
posted by DarlingBri at 9:05 PM on September 12, 2010 [2 favorites]
That doesn't have anything to do with gender or heterosexuality unless you make it so. You can ask someone how their weekend was, or say thank you with a smile, or tell a co-worker a joke without worrying that they'll think you're flirting or whatever it is you're concerned about. If they misinterpret something, that's their issue, not yours.
In general your post seems to suggest you're spending a lot of time constructing or rather avoiding different personalities because you're afraid they'll make you seem bitchy or tomboyish or flirtatious or what have you. This is not healthy, and what happens when you're afraid to do anything is you do nothing, and end up being perceived as personality-less.
Is there something you can do that will help you be more comfortable with people, preferably by forcing you to interact with them? A Meetup.com group or a support group or an improc class or toastmasters might be helpful.
posted by DarlingBri at 9:05 PM on September 12, 2010 [2 favorites]
Having people like only your office persona is self-defeating. You might as well present your best self, and some people will like you and some won't. People can actually work with others effectively without genuinely "clicking" with them. It's work, not a cross country road trip. Some days, you'll get on a colleague's last nerve, and other days, you'll get along fine.
In general, treat everyone the same. You're polite, you're not complaining, you're direct.
Charm and sparkle aren't actually a gender specific traits. If you're not bubbly, don't force it. You can be interested in other people, without having to fake some huge enthusiasm.
Your childhood isn't actually relevant. Your workplace isn't your home. It's not a therapist's office. It's a place where disparate people come together in pursuit of a allegedly common goal. Your work style needs to mesh with your team, but you don't have to invent a whole new self, nor squish your old self to be productive.
If you want to present yourself in a more feminine way than you do now--get a friend to critique your work wardrobe. If you don't wear jewelry or do your hair--start. Do you wear makeup? Do your clothes actually fit you (You'd be surprised at how many women hide in baggy clothes and then wonder why no one compliments them.)
In general, I hate suggesting that anyone consume popular culture to see how to behave at work, but taking a turn around some romcom movies (27 Dresses, for example) that show young women in offices.
posted by Ideefixe at 11:26 AM on September 13, 2010
In general, treat everyone the same. You're polite, you're not complaining, you're direct.
Charm and sparkle aren't actually a gender specific traits. If you're not bubbly, don't force it. You can be interested in other people, without having to fake some huge enthusiasm.
Your childhood isn't actually relevant. Your workplace isn't your home. It's not a therapist's office. It's a place where disparate people come together in pursuit of a allegedly common goal. Your work style needs to mesh with your team, but you don't have to invent a whole new self, nor squish your old self to be productive.
If you want to present yourself in a more feminine way than you do now--get a friend to critique your work wardrobe. If you don't wear jewelry or do your hair--start. Do you wear makeup? Do your clothes actually fit you (You'd be surprised at how many women hide in baggy clothes and then wonder why no one compliments them.)
In general, I hate suggesting that anyone consume popular culture to see how to behave at work, but taking a turn around some romcom movies (27 Dresses, for example) that show young women in offices.
posted by Ideefixe at 11:26 AM on September 13, 2010
I'm surprised this question didn't get more responses-- maybe because it's more of a "human relations" category than "work"?
I've had trouble as a woman nerd in mostly male nerd workplaces; I think the quiet woman vs room of sales guys could be even more of a challenge. Or maybe just different-- at least they'll look you in the eye!
I found reading about different communications styles can help-- Deborah Tannen has a few books about male/female communication (one specifically in the workplace). There's also "Nice Girls don't get the Corner Office" (not sure of the author) that I found helpful too.
posted by travertina at 5:54 AM on September 14, 2010
I've had trouble as a woman nerd in mostly male nerd workplaces; I think the quiet woman vs room of sales guys could be even more of a challenge. Or maybe just different-- at least they'll look you in the eye!
I found reading about different communications styles can help-- Deborah Tannen has a few books about male/female communication (one specifically in the workplace). There's also "Nice Girls don't get the Corner Office" (not sure of the author) that I found helpful too.
posted by travertina at 5:54 AM on September 14, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
I had problems with a sales team many moons ago, when I was in a position where I was supposed to be offering support to the sales team. My job was kind of pre-sales, where, once the sales guy had sold our thing to the marketing people, it was my job to go in and convince the tech people that they wanted it. Some of the sales people loved me and always wanted me on their calls. Those were also the people who were the most well-rounded. By 'well-rounded' I don't mean 'exactly like me' - one of the salespeople I got along the best with was a devout evangelical Christian with 8 kids who had polar opposite of political views than I did - but they had lives and interests and knew how to talk and listen to people.
The sales people who complained about me endlessly and the ones I did everything to avoid having to go on trips with? They were decidedly cliche, one-dimensional, sexist, stereotypes. I tried everything. I tried being nice. I tried acting 'girlie' (which I don't know how to do). I read "How To Win Friends And Influence People" and used a lot of that, which helped some, but not too terribly much. Finally, I decided to just try to act like they did, no matter how dumb it made me feel.
Here's an example:
I'm at work, I hear "Steve Salesguy" come back into the sales area. He's talking loudly about something. I walk over there and say, "Well, I thought I smelled something bad back here, HAW HAW HAW". He LOVES it. He eats it up. Everyone else laughs hard.
The lesson I took out of this was that the hard-driving, all-business, no-nonsense manner that made developers and QA people love me didn't work with these guys. I had to take a deep breath, spend time bullshitting (that's when the 'how to win friends' advice helped), make dumb jokes constantly, and never ever get insulted. I had to be quick and make jokes back. When they would say stuff about me being a feminist, I would pick up a phone and say "Oops, sorry, gotta go burn my bra now!"
I fucking hated every minute of it but I learned something from it. I won't put myself in that again but if I had to, I could manage well enough for a week.
posted by micawber at 5:35 PM on September 12, 2010 [4 favorites]