Is this relationship settling or is it just accepting that nothing is perfect and you need to be happy with what you have?
September 2, 2010 8:03 AM Subscribe
I'm in a relationship that is the best I've ever had (and in some ways the only serious one I've ever had), but it's still not that amazing. Do I abandon my notions that there is someone better out there and give this a real shot or do I just need to accept that being single forever is better than being in a not quite right relationship? (so very long inside...)
I've been dating a man in his early 30s for a couple years now. I'm a woman in my late 20s. We've never been exclusive and it's a long distance relationship. I've always been hesitant to make the relationship "official" even though we talk daily and tell each other we love each other. We see each other about every 2 months, but sometimes go much longer between visits. For the first time ever he wants something more serious, even though he was previously against the whole marriage and children thing (which I've always wanted). This is a total 180 from his previous position and I suspect he just now wants this because I want it and it has suddenly dawned on him that he need to "grow up" his words and doesn't want to die alone. I think it also suddenly occurred to him that I might find someone else if he doesn't get me to commit, which somehow he had never previously considered. I'm at a loss.
I love him very much. I don't know if I've ever been in love with him, however I don't even know if I know what that means exactly. Maybe that's just infatuation. I've never been infatuated with him, but maybe that's also why our relationship has managed to last as long as it has.
He's a very good person. He is one of my closest friends. He really does love me and wants to be with me and no one else ever has (romantically, for more than a month or two). He's smart and we have similar senses of humor, yet we are very different people. Our childhoods and families are very different. We have very different hobbies and interests (however we do have some things in common we like to do together).
He has issues with depression and anxiety. He basically accepts his "lot in life." He lives in an apartment he hates far away from his friends because he was tired of looking at apartments and can't be bothered to move. He has some minor health problems he can never get around to making an appointment with a doctor for because "it is what it is." He has pretty low self esteem, which is a huge part of it. He says he's going to go into therapy, but never does (he looks at a list of approved therapists under his insurance, was overwhelmed and that was it). I find his outlook on life to be very depressing. I really want him to be happy, but I don't feel like he'll ever put in the effort to try and be happy.
He's really bad with money and is in pretty extensive credit card debt. A lot of the debt was unavoidable up to a certain point, but every time it looks like he might be in a position to get it under control he goes and buys something expensive. I'm not exactly a penny pincher (by any stretch) but I can't imagine being as stressed about money as he is on a daily basis and then making a huge needless purchase the next day.
He also uses money as an excuse for tons of issues in our relationship. He can't afford to come visit me, but he can afford a new computer or guitar or repeatedly spending $100 a night on alcohol (not just for himself, he'll pay for other people too). I should say that I always pay my share of everything and spend equal money on traveling to see him. I have no problem with this and the issue isn't that he doesn't spend money on me. However, I do seriously worry about him ever being financially sound enough for us to have a family. We both have good jobs and make close to the same amount of of money, but he has so many financial issues that just never end. I worry about him ruining my credit if we were to get married.
The sex is good, but not amazing. I'm attracted to him, but not really to him physically. He's a bit overweight and looks much older than his age. I can't decide whether this would bother me less if the relationship was better. It doesn’t help that I recently had a brief fling with someone I was very physically attracted to and it made me realize what I had been missing in that department, as superficial as that is. (I should restate we aren't exclusive in any way, so this wasn't cheating.)
I am far more social than him and he doesn't like doing a large portion of what I like to do. Since I'm far more flexible than he is we generally end up doing what he wants to because I'll find a way to enjoy myself even if it wasn't my first choice and he'll bitch and complain if it’s something he doesn’t want to do. The typical example is I want to go somewhere nice for a drink and he wants to go to yet another dive bar. If we go somewhere nice he’ll find anything and everything to complain about from the prices to the selection to the people in the bar to the bartender to the music (especially the music). He’ll often even do this when he’s picked the place. I’ll offer to go somewhere else and he’ll tell me he “didn’t mean it like that.” I realize this sounds small, but it's constant.
He's also very affectionate and caring. He goes out and gets me medicine when I'm sick and makes me coffee in the morning. We're both very supportive of each other.
I'm sorry for the novel, but I feel like I need to give a balanced picture of him. I think he is accurately described as a "lovable curmudgeon" as one of my friends puts it.
I go back and forth because despite all these problems, I'm happier with him in my life than I was being endlessly single. I've had very little luck in love in the past. I don't really have trouble getting dates, but I do have a very hard time finding anyone I really connect with. This isn't helped by the fact that the few times I have met someone that I really thought I could have something with they weren't interested in anything more than being really good friends. I've been heartbroken too many times and part of me thinks this may be my only shot for a lasting, if imperfect, relationship. I worry that even if I meet someone else, they yet again won’t be interested. I've had one other boyfriend in my life and that was when I was 18 and it only lasted for an incredibly intense couple of months and then it took me years to recover. I've been trying very hard to get out and date in the last six months, online and otherwise. I've gone on a lot of dates, fooled around with a few guys, but nothing has really gotten past a few weeks of dating and then things fade out, which has pretty much been my pattern of dating for the last decade, save this one relationship.
Do I give this a real try? Do relationships like ours work out in the end because the two people love each other and try really hard? Is it reasonable for me to want (and expect to find) someone who is a better match for me? Am I a horrible person for feeling like this? He knows most, but not all, of my issues with our relationship and still wants very badly for us to try. Part of me wonders if this is part of being an adult. I was trying to avoid linking to this cartoon, but this thing is already so long I might as well: http://xkcd.com/310/ I don’t know whether I believe the beginning or the ending of the cartoon is right, but that’s what I’m wondering if I need to accept and that’s what I’m scared of happening if I do. However, I'm too emotionally involved to evaluate this relationship or my fears rationally.
I've been dating a man in his early 30s for a couple years now. I'm a woman in my late 20s. We've never been exclusive and it's a long distance relationship. I've always been hesitant to make the relationship "official" even though we talk daily and tell each other we love each other. We see each other about every 2 months, but sometimes go much longer between visits. For the first time ever he wants something more serious, even though he was previously against the whole marriage and children thing (which I've always wanted). This is a total 180 from his previous position and I suspect he just now wants this because I want it and it has suddenly dawned on him that he need to "grow up" his words and doesn't want to die alone. I think it also suddenly occurred to him that I might find someone else if he doesn't get me to commit, which somehow he had never previously considered. I'm at a loss.
I love him very much. I don't know if I've ever been in love with him, however I don't even know if I know what that means exactly. Maybe that's just infatuation. I've never been infatuated with him, but maybe that's also why our relationship has managed to last as long as it has.
He's a very good person. He is one of my closest friends. He really does love me and wants to be with me and no one else ever has (romantically, for more than a month or two). He's smart and we have similar senses of humor, yet we are very different people. Our childhoods and families are very different. We have very different hobbies and interests (however we do have some things in common we like to do together).
He has issues with depression and anxiety. He basically accepts his "lot in life." He lives in an apartment he hates far away from his friends because he was tired of looking at apartments and can't be bothered to move. He has some minor health problems he can never get around to making an appointment with a doctor for because "it is what it is." He has pretty low self esteem, which is a huge part of it. He says he's going to go into therapy, but never does (he looks at a list of approved therapists under his insurance, was overwhelmed and that was it). I find his outlook on life to be very depressing. I really want him to be happy, but I don't feel like he'll ever put in the effort to try and be happy.
He's really bad with money and is in pretty extensive credit card debt. A lot of the debt was unavoidable up to a certain point, but every time it looks like he might be in a position to get it under control he goes and buys something expensive. I'm not exactly a penny pincher (by any stretch) but I can't imagine being as stressed about money as he is on a daily basis and then making a huge needless purchase the next day.
He also uses money as an excuse for tons of issues in our relationship. He can't afford to come visit me, but he can afford a new computer or guitar or repeatedly spending $100 a night on alcohol (not just for himself, he'll pay for other people too). I should say that I always pay my share of everything and spend equal money on traveling to see him. I have no problem with this and the issue isn't that he doesn't spend money on me. However, I do seriously worry about him ever being financially sound enough for us to have a family. We both have good jobs and make close to the same amount of of money, but he has so many financial issues that just never end. I worry about him ruining my credit if we were to get married.
The sex is good, but not amazing. I'm attracted to him, but not really to him physically. He's a bit overweight and looks much older than his age. I can't decide whether this would bother me less if the relationship was better. It doesn’t help that I recently had a brief fling with someone I was very physically attracted to and it made me realize what I had been missing in that department, as superficial as that is. (I should restate we aren't exclusive in any way, so this wasn't cheating.)
I am far more social than him and he doesn't like doing a large portion of what I like to do. Since I'm far more flexible than he is we generally end up doing what he wants to because I'll find a way to enjoy myself even if it wasn't my first choice and he'll bitch and complain if it’s something he doesn’t want to do. The typical example is I want to go somewhere nice for a drink and he wants to go to yet another dive bar. If we go somewhere nice he’ll find anything and everything to complain about from the prices to the selection to the people in the bar to the bartender to the music (especially the music). He’ll often even do this when he’s picked the place. I’ll offer to go somewhere else and he’ll tell me he “didn’t mean it like that.” I realize this sounds small, but it's constant.
He's also very affectionate and caring. He goes out and gets me medicine when I'm sick and makes me coffee in the morning. We're both very supportive of each other.
I'm sorry for the novel, but I feel like I need to give a balanced picture of him. I think he is accurately described as a "lovable curmudgeon" as one of my friends puts it.
I go back and forth because despite all these problems, I'm happier with him in my life than I was being endlessly single. I've had very little luck in love in the past. I don't really have trouble getting dates, but I do have a very hard time finding anyone I really connect with. This isn't helped by the fact that the few times I have met someone that I really thought I could have something with they weren't interested in anything more than being really good friends. I've been heartbroken too many times and part of me thinks this may be my only shot for a lasting, if imperfect, relationship. I worry that even if I meet someone else, they yet again won’t be interested. I've had one other boyfriend in my life and that was when I was 18 and it only lasted for an incredibly intense couple of months and then it took me years to recover. I've been trying very hard to get out and date in the last six months, online and otherwise. I've gone on a lot of dates, fooled around with a few guys, but nothing has really gotten past a few weeks of dating and then things fade out, which has pretty much been my pattern of dating for the last decade, save this one relationship.
Do I give this a real try? Do relationships like ours work out in the end because the two people love each other and try really hard? Is it reasonable for me to want (and expect to find) someone who is a better match for me? Am I a horrible person for feeling like this? He knows most, but not all, of my issues with our relationship and still wants very badly for us to try. Part of me wonders if this is part of being an adult. I was trying to avoid linking to this cartoon, but this thing is already so long I might as well: http://xkcd.com/310/ I don’t know whether I believe the beginning or the ending of the cartoon is right, but that’s what I’m wondering if I need to accept and that’s what I’m scared of happening if I do. However, I'm too emotionally involved to evaluate this relationship or my fears rationally.
The only thing I feel confident in saying is that he doesn't sound like he is "trying very hard," at least according to the standards you seem to have, and it would probably be good not to expect him to start.
posted by SMPA at 8:14 AM on September 2, 2010
posted by SMPA at 8:14 AM on September 2, 2010
When you have a laundry list of things that you want or need the other person to change in order for them to be just good enough to tolerate, they're not the right choice for you.
Don't settle.
If he really wants to change, he'll either have to make that change, so you can see it, or you'll have to help him change, which means a lot of emotional, mental, physical and possibly financial help from you? Are you up for that? If so, ask yourself this: Is it good to start off a new relationship or new aspect of relationship helping someone so I'm happy with how they are?
posted by nomadicink at 8:20 AM on September 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
Don't settle.
If he really wants to change, he'll either have to make that change, so you can see it, or you'll have to help him change, which means a lot of emotional, mental, physical and possibly financial help from you? Are you up for that? If so, ask yourself this: Is it good to start off a new relationship or new aspect of relationship helping someone so I'm happy with how they are?
posted by nomadicink at 8:20 AM on September 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
Is any of this what you want? There's no passion, no real interest, even. Do you like the guy as a person? Does he bring you happiness, or just medicine sometimes when you're sick? 'Cause I can call a neighbor and have them do that. I don't think there are trumpets and whatnot when you meet The One, nor do I really believe that there is one person who is Meant For You and You Only, but damn, you've got to at least feel happy about the guy. The way you talk about him now makes it seems like for the most part, he just brings you down.
Take some time away from relationships and see what life is like on your own. It's ok to be single. You don't have to accept mediocrity because you're afraid to be on your own. You have to like yourself and your life and be secure in who you are before you can build a solid, secure relationship.
posted by runningwithscissors at 8:23 AM on September 2, 2010 [5 favorites]
Take some time away from relationships and see what life is like on your own. It's ok to be single. You don't have to accept mediocrity because you're afraid to be on your own. You have to like yourself and your life and be secure in who you are before you can build a solid, secure relationship.
posted by runningwithscissors at 8:23 AM on September 2, 2010 [5 favorites]
Think about the things you dislike about him: his inertia, his unwillingness to improve his lot in life, his inability to envision and strive towards something bigger and better and less "blah" than nagging health problems and quasi-relationships and getting plastered all the time.
If you stay with him, you'll be doing the exact same thing. You may BE the exact same thing in a few years... few things prematurely age a person faster than knowing each day that they've taken something lackluster because it's all they feel they're worth.
You are worth the pursuit of your wildest dreams. You may not GET them, but you'll almost certainly get something interesting, and knowing that you aimed high results in WAY more of a "glow" than knowing that you settled for "meh".
posted by julthumbscrew at 8:25 AM on September 2, 2010 [7 favorites]
If you stay with him, you'll be doing the exact same thing. You may BE the exact same thing in a few years... few things prematurely age a person faster than knowing each day that they've taken something lackluster because it's all they feel they're worth.
You are worth the pursuit of your wildest dreams. You may not GET them, but you'll almost certainly get something interesting, and knowing that you aimed high results in WAY more of a "glow" than knowing that you settled for "meh".
posted by julthumbscrew at 8:25 AM on September 2, 2010 [7 favorites]
I've been heartbroken too many times and part of me thinks this may be my only shot for a lasting, if imperfect, relationship.
Whether a relationship with this guy will work or not, this is a really bad attitude for anyone to have and you should avoid thinking like this. If there are real problems that make it difficult for you to have healthy relationships with people you can work on those, but there is no reason to ever feel like you have to stay with someone because they are the only possible person you could ever be with. The idea that there is exactly one person who you could possibly have a relationship with and you have to settle for them even if they don't give you what you need in a relationship is false and will not lead you to make good choices.
posted by burnmp3s at 8:27 AM on September 2, 2010
Whether a relationship with this guy will work or not, this is a really bad attitude for anyone to have and you should avoid thinking like this. If there are real problems that make it difficult for you to have healthy relationships with people you can work on those, but there is no reason to ever feel like you have to stay with someone because they are the only possible person you could ever be with. The idea that there is exactly one person who you could possibly have a relationship with and you have to settle for them even if they don't give you what you need in a relationship is false and will not lead you to make good choices.
posted by burnmp3s at 8:27 AM on September 2, 2010
Marriage is an everyday affair, not once every two months. This guy isn't marriage material for you. See a counselor for why you don't stay with someone for very long, except for someone you don't have to see everyday. And if you want to get married and raise a family you should make that one of your criteria for seriously dating someone. From experience I can tell you that's how you sort through the chaff. You may not think it, but you're old enough to make marriage and having children criteria for being serious with someone.
posted by swmobill at 8:29 AM on September 2, 2010
posted by swmobill at 8:29 AM on September 2, 2010
Do I abandon my notions that there is someone better out there
Don't end any relationship because of a possible better person out there. End it becasue it isn't providing you with what you want.
posted by Ironmouth at 8:30 AM on September 2, 2010 [13 favorites]
Don't end any relationship because of a possible better person out there. End it becasue it isn't providing you with what you want.
posted by Ironmouth at 8:30 AM on September 2, 2010 [13 favorites]
There may not be a choir of angels (there wasn't for me), but that doesn't change the fact that this:
I'm happier with him in my life than I was being endlessly single
is nowhere near a good enough reason to stay with someone.
Basically, the sooner you become single again, the sooner you'll resume becoming the brilliant, independent, lovely person you need to be in order to attract what we will for argument's sake call "the one" - ie. someone who you don't have a checklist of things about which annoy or upset you. Therapy might help with that. Lots of meeting new people, being open to new experiences, that will help. But settling for this guy - nope, not helping anything.
posted by greenish at 8:31 AM on September 2, 2010
I'm happier with him in my life than I was being endlessly single
is nowhere near a good enough reason to stay with someone.
Basically, the sooner you become single again, the sooner you'll resume becoming the brilliant, independent, lovely person you need to be in order to attract what we will for argument's sake call "the one" - ie. someone who you don't have a checklist of things about which annoy or upset you. Therapy might help with that. Lots of meeting new people, being open to new experiences, that will help. But settling for this guy - nope, not helping anything.
posted by greenish at 8:31 AM on September 2, 2010
For the first time ever he wants something more serious, even though he was previously against the whole marriage and children thing (which I've always wanted).
I was about to ask "ah, but why?" and you clearly asked it long before I did. Marriage, and especially parenthood should not be entered into out of desperation and fear. It's really not genuinely good for anyone in the picture. Considering you're questioning his motives, I'll bet you already know this. Good.
I don't know if I've ever been in love with him, however I don't even know if I know what that means exactly.
I hate, hate, hate the "hurf durf you'll know when it happens" line but ... unfortunately, you will. You'll know when you're in love. And if you're a person who understands themselves and their emotions, or at least is willing to explore them, you may even know the difference between genuine in-love-ness and infatuation. But if you genuinely know it's neither, the relationship is crippled from the start. You may end up falling in love with him as time goes on, but you need to decide if that is what you want out of life. It works for some; many arranged marriages (in which the marriage comes before any sort of love) are perfectly successful and the pair actually falls in love. On the other hand...
He really does love me and wants to be with me and no one else ever has...
That in no way means nobody ever will.
He has issues with depression and anxiety ... He has pretty low self esteem ... He says he's going to go into therapy, but never does ... I find his outlook on life to be very depressing ... I don't feel like he'll ever put in the effort to try and be happy.
Ask yourself: is his demonstrated inability to help himself a red flag for a marriage, which is a equal partnership? Would it make him a good father?
He's also very affectionate and caring. He goes out and gets me medicine when I'm sick and makes me coffee in the morning.
This isn't "affectionate and caring" behavior to write home about. This is baseline decency for a functional relationship. If he wasn't doing it, it would be a hell of a problem. The fact that he is doing it does not make him a fantastic person.
I'm happier with him in my life than I was being endlessly single.
Because it's him or because you're not single? The former will breed contempt in the long run. Every time you see a genuinely happy couple who love one another, you it will build and build. Or maybe not. Depends on what you want out of a relationship. But it sounds like your personal history and low self-esteem is dictating your life, and not your heart or your mind.
Do I give this a real try?
Only you can answer this. Do you think you could ever, genuinely love this man for who he is and the way he acts at this very moment?
Do relationships like ours work out in the end because the two people love each other and try really hard?
You can make the partnership part work, but if he's not willing to go into therapy it's going to be a lot of goddamn work and his reliability as a partner will always be a wild variable. But, even if it works as a partnership, it may never blossom into genuine love. Some people don't need that. Do you?
Is it reasonable for me to want (and expect to find) someone who is a better match for me?
In this case? Unequivocally yes.
Am I a horrible person for feeling like this?
Not at all.
posted by griphus at 8:31 AM on September 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
I was about to ask "ah, but why?" and you clearly asked it long before I did. Marriage, and especially parenthood should not be entered into out of desperation and fear. It's really not genuinely good for anyone in the picture. Considering you're questioning his motives, I'll bet you already know this. Good.
I don't know if I've ever been in love with him, however I don't even know if I know what that means exactly.
I hate, hate, hate the "hurf durf you'll know when it happens" line but ... unfortunately, you will. You'll know when you're in love. And if you're a person who understands themselves and their emotions, or at least is willing to explore them, you may even know the difference between genuine in-love-ness and infatuation. But if you genuinely know it's neither, the relationship is crippled from the start. You may end up falling in love with him as time goes on, but you need to decide if that is what you want out of life. It works for some; many arranged marriages (in which the marriage comes before any sort of love) are perfectly successful and the pair actually falls in love. On the other hand...
He really does love me and wants to be with me and no one else ever has...
That in no way means nobody ever will.
He has issues with depression and anxiety ... He has pretty low self esteem ... He says he's going to go into therapy, but never does ... I find his outlook on life to be very depressing ... I don't feel like he'll ever put in the effort to try and be happy.
Ask yourself: is his demonstrated inability to help himself a red flag for a marriage, which is a equal partnership? Would it make him a good father?
He's also very affectionate and caring. He goes out and gets me medicine when I'm sick and makes me coffee in the morning.
This isn't "affectionate and caring" behavior to write home about. This is baseline decency for a functional relationship. If he wasn't doing it, it would be a hell of a problem. The fact that he is doing it does not make him a fantastic person.
I'm happier with him in my life than I was being endlessly single.
Because it's him or because you're not single? The former will breed contempt in the long run. Every time you see a genuinely happy couple who love one another, you it will build and build. Or maybe not. Depends on what you want out of a relationship. But it sounds like your personal history and low self-esteem is dictating your life, and not your heart or your mind.
Do I give this a real try?
Only you can answer this. Do you think you could ever, genuinely love this man for who he is and the way he acts at this very moment?
Do relationships like ours work out in the end because the two people love each other and try really hard?
You can make the partnership part work, but if he's not willing to go into therapy it's going to be a lot of goddamn work and his reliability as a partner will always be a wild variable. But, even if it works as a partnership, it may never blossom into genuine love. Some people don't need that. Do you?
Is it reasonable for me to want (and expect to find) someone who is a better match for me?
In this case? Unequivocally yes.
Am I a horrible person for feeling like this?
Not at all.
posted by griphus at 8:31 AM on September 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
"The former latter will breed contempt in the long run."
posted by griphus at 8:35 AM on September 2, 2010
posted by griphus at 8:35 AM on September 2, 2010
Just yesterday I was thinking how fantastically wonderful my husband is and how before I met him I really never would have believed that a relationship could be this happy AND how I was glad that I hadn't ended up with any of my exes AND that I was so glad that I had the courage to reject my Ex when I knew he wasn't right for me even though I was afraid of ending up alone.
posted by bananafish at 8:41 AM on September 2, 2010 [7 favorites]
posted by bananafish at 8:41 AM on September 2, 2010 [7 favorites]
The issue is not only "do you really like this guy," but some things that may be going on with YOURSELF that you want to address.
1) Relationships aren't enough. That is, a good relationship can definitely add to your happiness, but it won't MAKE you happy. Barring catastrophic situations like homelessness, or being so disabled you have to spend your life in a nursing home - with average everyday situations, happiness is an internal thing, not external. If you expect someone else to make you happy, you are going to be forever disappointed - and you will put such a burden on your relationships that you scare other people away. Who wants to be in a relationship with someone and responsible for their happiness? Learn ways to be happy and satisfied with your life because you choose and are in control and life is what you make it.
2) Don't get into a relationship with a man expecting him to change for you! You can "change" a man - when he's a baby and it's his diaper that needs changing! Otherwise, people change because THEY want to change. If you can only be happy with someone if he undergoes some major changes (i.e. not pick up your socks, turn down the TV, don't pick your nose in public, those little things that go along with learning to live in a relationship) - then you don't want to be in this relationship. You're doomed to disappointment and frustration if you look upon a man as a fixer.
"Be the heroine of your own life, not the victim" - I forgot who said this but it's a great quote to live by.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 8:53 AM on September 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
1) Relationships aren't enough. That is, a good relationship can definitely add to your happiness, but it won't MAKE you happy. Barring catastrophic situations like homelessness, or being so disabled you have to spend your life in a nursing home - with average everyday situations, happiness is an internal thing, not external. If you expect someone else to make you happy, you are going to be forever disappointed - and you will put such a burden on your relationships that you scare other people away. Who wants to be in a relationship with someone and responsible for their happiness? Learn ways to be happy and satisfied with your life because you choose and are in control and life is what you make it.
2) Don't get into a relationship with a man expecting him to change for you! You can "change" a man - when he's a baby and it's his diaper that needs changing! Otherwise, people change because THEY want to change. If you can only be happy with someone if he undergoes some major changes (i.e. not pick up your socks, turn down the TV, don't pick your nose in public, those little things that go along with learning to live in a relationship) - then you don't want to be in this relationship. You're doomed to disappointment and frustration if you look upon a man as a fixer.
"Be the heroine of your own life, not the victim" - I forgot who said this but it's a great quote to live by.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 8:53 AM on September 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
Long-term relationships take work and they're definitely not all rainbows and unicorns. However, I have found that if being in the relationship takes lots of work and there are lots of minuses and the pluses don't work out to all that much then you don't want to commit to that relationship. You want to commit to someone who you respect, who has similar priorities, who helps you feel like a better person, who goes out of his way to spend time with you.
Do you really want to to stay in a relationship with someone who lacks ambition and has no desire to grow? What will happen to that relationship when you grow and change and he stays in the same place? Do not settle. The relationship you want will fulfill and energize you, comfort and nurture you, and it will be much easier than this. And really that's the secret. Good relationships are so much easier than you would expect.
posted by Kimberly at 9:01 AM on September 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
Do you really want to to stay in a relationship with someone who lacks ambition and has no desire to grow? What will happen to that relationship when you grow and change and he stays in the same place? Do not settle. The relationship you want will fulfill and energize you, comfort and nurture you, and it will be much easier than this. And really that's the secret. Good relationships are so much easier than you would expect.
posted by Kimberly at 9:01 AM on September 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
"part of me thinks this may be my only shot for a lasting, if imperfect, relationship."
I won't go so far as to judge this a 'bad attitude' as was done above. I will say from experience that this feeling can be a powerful lens, colouring your thinking on just about every aspect of the relationship. When depressed, a thought such as this can be like a spotlight in the darkness; you think that's the only thing to look at and you focus on it alone. As a result real problems with the relationship get minimized or don't get examined. The way to counteract this thought's limiting, self-denying nature is to shine a little light on the rest of the stage.
"This could be the best that I can have" - is a phrase coming from the small voice of doubt that we all have; the one we struggle every day to counteract so we can actually see clearly and think for ourselves. It comes from listening to that repeating tape recorder of past failures, hurts and slights that plays in our mind. I won't try to suggest how to counteract that voice of doubt as I'm a bit foggy and rambling today, but I'm sure others in the thread will have more good ideas on realizing that you are worth a good relationship. Don't settle; there's so much more to your potential.
posted by Hardcore Poser at 9:04 AM on September 2, 2010 [6 favorites]
I won't go so far as to judge this a 'bad attitude' as was done above. I will say from experience that this feeling can be a powerful lens, colouring your thinking on just about every aspect of the relationship. When depressed, a thought such as this can be like a spotlight in the darkness; you think that's the only thing to look at and you focus on it alone. As a result real problems with the relationship get minimized or don't get examined. The way to counteract this thought's limiting, self-denying nature is to shine a little light on the rest of the stage.
"This could be the best that I can have" - is a phrase coming from the small voice of doubt that we all have; the one we struggle every day to counteract so we can actually see clearly and think for ourselves. It comes from listening to that repeating tape recorder of past failures, hurts and slights that plays in our mind. I won't try to suggest how to counteract that voice of doubt as I'm a bit foggy and rambling today, but I'm sure others in the thread will have more good ideas on realizing that you are worth a good relationship. Don't settle; there's so much more to your potential.
posted by Hardcore Poser at 9:04 AM on September 2, 2010 [6 favorites]
I don't know if relationships like yours work out in the end or not, but I do think that if they do, it's because both partners worked hard at it. Constantly. So I suppose it depends on your definition of "working out". How hard are you willing to work? How happy will you be putting that much work into keeping a relationship viable?
You should know, too, that you can still be lonely and heartbroken when you're married. You can spend the rest of your marriage wondering if you cheated yourself out of the chance of finding the right person, wondering what and who you've missed. There's a whole lot of heartbreak down that road, for both of you. The quality of your relationship can amplify all the other aspects of your life: your job, social life, sex life—you get the picture. If the relationship is good, that can carry on to everything else. If it's not, it's going to drag you down there, too.
So don't be afraid of being single again. It might be depressing and hurtful, but you'll have an opportunity for a better relationship and a better life, and yes, it's more than reasonable for you to want that. Personally, I think you'll get it.
posted by Mercy at 9:14 AM on September 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
You should know, too, that you can still be lonely and heartbroken when you're married. You can spend the rest of your marriage wondering if you cheated yourself out of the chance of finding the right person, wondering what and who you've missed. There's a whole lot of heartbreak down that road, for both of you. The quality of your relationship can amplify all the other aspects of your life: your job, social life, sex life—you get the picture. If the relationship is good, that can carry on to everything else. If it's not, it's going to drag you down there, too.
So don't be afraid of being single again. It might be depressing and hurtful, but you'll have an opportunity for a better relationship and a better life, and yes, it's more than reasonable for you to want that. Personally, I think you'll get it.
posted by Mercy at 9:14 AM on September 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
^Being single might be depressing and hurtful sometimes—it's not always. I'll take the bumps with the ride.
posted by Mercy at 9:19 AM on September 2, 2010
posted by Mercy at 9:19 AM on September 2, 2010
He's also very affectionate and caring. He goes out and gets me medicine when I'm sick and makes me coffee in the morning.
I do that when I have guests over at the house. I call it "being a good host". Hell, I drove 30 minutes at 2AM to pick a friend up at a concert when he had briefly passed out and wasn't sure he was safe to drive home (he was fine, as it happened). This probably qualifies me for "really good friend" status, but that's what you do for good friends.
If he's driven an hour, in the rain, with a pint of your favorite ice cream and your favorite chick flick (which he hates, but will watch with you anyway), just because you sounded down in the dumps then he can qualify for "very affectionate and caring". When we had just started dating the future Mrs. Lurgi drove an hour with some yummy Thai curry because I was too sick to come to see her and she felt that I needed the company (and the curry). That's affectionate and caring. Coffee? Not so much.
I also second, third, and twenty-fifth griphus who, when you said:
I'm happier with him in my life than I was being endlessly single.
asked
Because it's him or because you're not single?
There is a big myth (thanks Hollywood!) that there is one person out there for you. That's crap. There are many, many people out there who can make you happy (this assumes that you have your own house in order and others have already commented on that). There are handsome dudes who are more responsible with money and more fun to be with who will love being with you, but you won't find them by staying with your current beau.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 9:24 AM on September 2, 2010 [3 favorites]
I do that when I have guests over at the house. I call it "being a good host". Hell, I drove 30 minutes at 2AM to pick a friend up at a concert when he had briefly passed out and wasn't sure he was safe to drive home (he was fine, as it happened). This probably qualifies me for "really good friend" status, but that's what you do for good friends.
If he's driven an hour, in the rain, with a pint of your favorite ice cream and your favorite chick flick (which he hates, but will watch with you anyway), just because you sounded down in the dumps then he can qualify for "very affectionate and caring". When we had just started dating the future Mrs. Lurgi drove an hour with some yummy Thai curry because I was too sick to come to see her and she felt that I needed the company (and the curry). That's affectionate and caring. Coffee? Not so much.
I also second, third, and twenty-fifth griphus who, when you said:
I'm happier with him in my life than I was being endlessly single.
asked
Because it's him or because you're not single?
There is a big myth (thanks Hollywood!) that there is one person out there for you. That's crap. There are many, many people out there who can make you happy (this assumes that you have your own house in order and others have already commented on that). There are handsome dudes who are more responsible with money and more fun to be with who will love being with you, but you won't find them by staying with your current beau.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 9:24 AM on September 2, 2010 [3 favorites]
I love that you referenced that XKCD cartoon - I totally identified with it when it came out - hey, that's my life! I never thought there was The Right Person Out There For Me. I wasted time in relationships I knew weren't a great fit because I was afraid of being alone, and the people I was with were nice people, even if they didn't really "get" me. I thought it wasn't fair to expect one person satisfy most of what I needed (or me to them). I was mistaken.
I look back now and wonder, what was I thinking? And that's how I feel when I read your question. What are you thinking? Don't make that mistake. You're not happy. It's not worth it. Really, it's not worth it. And yes, I do think when you're really in love, you'll just know - which, you know, if someone had told me that ten years ago, I would've rolled my eyes at them - that's Hollywood bullshit. I still don't think there's such a thing as soulmates, or only one person is going to be that person for you. But when I met my partner, I knew he was good for me right away - I never felt for anyone else what I feel for him, and I never felt so happy with myself. I was amazed that I ever thought this couldn't or didn't exist, or that it would be right to "settle" for anything less.
Relationships are hard enough work that it's not worth the effort, I think, if you don't have that profound trust and connection underneath it all. We've had rocky times; we've had to learn to live with each other; we've had to learn how to talk to each other, and support each other. But I knew we both wanted it to work, more than anything, and I knew that attraction, that feeling of "this is right", never went away. Spending the rest of your life with someone, and especially having kids with someone, deserves no less. It's a big deal to bring children into the world; it's such a leap of faith to have kids. What do you want your kids to grow up seeing?
posted by flex at 9:34 AM on September 2, 2010 [3 favorites]
I look back now and wonder, what was I thinking? And that's how I feel when I read your question. What are you thinking? Don't make that mistake. You're not happy. It's not worth it. Really, it's not worth it. And yes, I do think when you're really in love, you'll just know - which, you know, if someone had told me that ten years ago, I would've rolled my eyes at them - that's Hollywood bullshit. I still don't think there's such a thing as soulmates, or only one person is going to be that person for you. But when I met my partner, I knew he was good for me right away - I never felt for anyone else what I feel for him, and I never felt so happy with myself. I was amazed that I ever thought this couldn't or didn't exist, or that it would be right to "settle" for anything less.
Relationships are hard enough work that it's not worth the effort, I think, if you don't have that profound trust and connection underneath it all. We've had rocky times; we've had to learn to live with each other; we've had to learn how to talk to each other, and support each other. But I knew we both wanted it to work, more than anything, and I knew that attraction, that feeling of "this is right", never went away. Spending the rest of your life with someone, and especially having kids with someone, deserves no less. It's a big deal to bring children into the world; it's such a leap of faith to have kids. What do you want your kids to grow up seeing?
posted by flex at 9:34 AM on September 2, 2010 [3 favorites]
Judging by your description, he's not really your lover-- he's your (honored, esteemed, cherished) pal.
Act accordingly.
posted by darth_tedious at 9:39 AM on September 2, 2010
Act accordingly.
posted by darth_tedious at 9:39 AM on September 2, 2010
You'll know you're in love when:
You don't hesitate to make it official.
You long for him when you're apart and two months seems like forever.
The idea of not being exclusive is painful (unless you are naturally polyamorous)
You're attracted to him physically regardless of weight or age or other superficial issues.
Instead of thinking you have to try really hard to love him and make it work, you would have to try really hard to fall out of love with him if you had to.
For both your sakes, please do not marry and have children with this man! It sounds like you make better friends than lovers. Don't give up on finding someone you really feel something for. Frankly, it sounds like both of you are not that into each other and just settling, and you both deserve better.
Don't expect pink unicorns singing arias and dancing on moonbeams, but know that the kind of love that makes you want to marry someone is deep, powerful, and unequivocal.
posted by xenophile at 10:07 AM on September 2, 2010 [4 favorites]
You don't hesitate to make it official.
You long for him when you're apart and two months seems like forever.
The idea of not being exclusive is painful (unless you are naturally polyamorous)
You're attracted to him physically regardless of weight or age or other superficial issues.
Instead of thinking you have to try really hard to love him and make it work, you would have to try really hard to fall out of love with him if you had to.
For both your sakes, please do not marry and have children with this man! It sounds like you make better friends than lovers. Don't give up on finding someone you really feel something for. Frankly, it sounds like both of you are not that into each other and just settling, and you both deserve better.
Don't expect pink unicorns singing arias and dancing on moonbeams, but know that the kind of love that makes you want to marry someone is deep, powerful, and unequivocal.
posted by xenophile at 10:07 AM on September 2, 2010 [4 favorites]
Exhibit A: He basically accepts his "lot in life." He lives in an apartment he hates far away from his friends because he was tired of looking at apartments and can't be bothered to move. He has some minor health problems he can never get around to making an appointment with a doctor for because "it is what it is." He has pretty low self esteem, which is a huge part of it. He says he's going to go into therapy, but never does (he looks at a list of approved therapists under his insurance, was overwhelmed and that was it). I find his outlook on life to be very depressing. I really want him to be happy, but I don't feel like he'll ever put in the effort to try and be happy.
Exhibit B: Do I give this a real try? Do relationships like ours work out in the end because the two people love each other and try really hard?
Do you really think he's going to put much effort into your relationship if he can't even work up the motivation to make a doctor's appointment? It sounds like he thinks you are the best he can do, so he might as well commit. He may be right (about you being his best option), but it doesn't mean you should settle.
posted by Mrs.Spiffy at 10:36 AM on September 2, 2010 [3 favorites]
Exhibit B: Do I give this a real try? Do relationships like ours work out in the end because the two people love each other and try really hard?
Do you really think he's going to put much effort into your relationship if he can't even work up the motivation to make a doctor's appointment? It sounds like he thinks you are the best he can do, so he might as well commit. He may be right (about you being his best option), but it doesn't mean you should settle.
posted by Mrs.Spiffy at 10:36 AM on September 2, 2010 [3 favorites]
I see everyone above is virtually saying dump him or the like but I can't get over the distance thing and the periodic meetings you guys have had over the last couple of years. You seem dispassionately assiduous in dissecting his character and the relationship but I find it hard to accept that you've had enough shared domestic time for your assertions to be as clear cut as you describe. I guess what occurred to me after reading your question was (despite you saying he is aware of most of your list) that you guys need to have a series of conversations in the same room and perhaps come up with a probationary period of living together. You have to tell him you have misgivings from the outset. This is the only sensible way forward if you want to test the waters properly.
Otherwise I'd say you should move on (and maybe I'm "hearing" subtext hoping for validation with that choice from the manner by which you've phrased your question here anyway).
posted by peacay at 10:51 AM on September 2, 2010
Otherwise I'd say you should move on (and maybe I'm "hearing" subtext hoping for validation with that choice from the manner by which you've phrased your question here anyway).
posted by peacay at 10:51 AM on September 2, 2010
You're in your late 20's?
These are not thoughts you should be having about romantic relationships - at any age!
See a counselor. Focus on yourself. Drop this dead weight in your life (the guy.)
Even as a friend you talk to daily, his ho hum "It Is What It Is" attitude is poisoning any chance you have to get out there and be happy. Sorry, but he isn't a good influence or support system for you. His presence in your life is likely holding you back.
You are young and have a good head on your shoulders. Use what you've got and go find your bliss!
posted by jbenben at 11:14 AM on September 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
These are not thoughts you should be having about romantic relationships - at any age!
See a counselor. Focus on yourself. Drop this dead weight in your life (the guy.)
Even as a friend you talk to daily, his ho hum "It Is What It Is" attitude is poisoning any chance you have to get out there and be happy. Sorry, but he isn't a good influence or support system for you. His presence in your life is likely holding you back.
You are young and have a good head on your shoulders. Use what you've got and go find your bliss!
posted by jbenben at 11:14 AM on September 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
I find his outlook on life to be very depressing.
That stood out. Barring this person making wholesale changes, it is monumentally difficult to imagine a happy or reasonably happy future with this person.
His attitude sounds exhausting and more operationally, the refusal to even try to sort out health, frame-of-mind and finance issues is really worrisome.
posted by ambient2 at 11:19 AM on September 2, 2010
That stood out. Barring this person making wholesale changes, it is monumentally difficult to imagine a happy or reasonably happy future with this person.
His attitude sounds exhausting and more operationally, the refusal to even try to sort out health, frame-of-mind and finance issues is really worrisome.
posted by ambient2 at 11:19 AM on September 2, 2010
I just want to emphasize, also, that - even though you haven't mentioned having kids - when you have kids with someone, you not only have a mate, you are giving your kids a father. And while you can choose your mate, kids cannot choose their father (or mother). Stuff you might resign yourself to because of "being a grownup" is something that can permanently damage kids - because kids are NOT grownups. Think of what a lackadaisical or indifferent approach can do for kids! What if "he can't be bothered" to get a therapist for a special-needs child, or even on a smaller scale, take the child to the park to play?
I may be a godless pinko commie liberal, but I think that single-parenting is preferable to saddling your kids with an indifferent or abusive parent for the sake of "giving them a father" (or mother).
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 11:25 AM on September 2, 2010
I may be a godless pinko commie liberal, but I think that single-parenting is preferable to saddling your kids with an indifferent or abusive parent for the sake of "giving them a father" (or mother).
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 11:25 AM on September 2, 2010
Don't settle.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 1:12 PM on September 2, 2010
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 1:12 PM on September 2, 2010
This relationship isn't even settling. It's barely breathing. It's grey and dusty. It's beige.
Do both of you a favor and end it. LDR's seem like they're a good idea because, you know, you're BUSY, and who wants a guy THERE all the time, but at some point you have to start missing each other and wanting to be with each other, or they just become an excuse to not try to find something better, and they can go on that way for years.
This is settling.
posted by micawber at 2:57 PM on September 2, 2010
Do both of you a favor and end it. LDR's seem like they're a good idea because, you know, you're BUSY, and who wants a guy THERE all the time, but at some point you have to start missing each other and wanting to be with each other, or they just become an excuse to not try to find something better, and they can go on that way for years.
This is settling.
posted by micawber at 2:57 PM on September 2, 2010
Seriously, get out. Get out now.
And get over this idea about being single being bad. That's defining yourself as a half a person. That is not a good idea.
Is there one person in this whole thread who can find a reason why this ersatz romance is a good idea?
I don't know if you read to many dumb novels, or you were raised to believe you have have a mate, or your partents have such a wonderful life that you want that for yourself, or if all your friends are coupled-up and putting pressure on you, but I do know that this guy is not going to help you with anything you want or need. Get out.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 3:11 PM on September 3, 2010
And get over this idea about being single being bad. That's defining yourself as a half a person. That is not a good idea.
Is there one person in this whole thread who can find a reason why this ersatz romance is a good idea?
I don't know if you read to many dumb novels, or you were raised to believe you have have a mate, or your partents have such a wonderful life that you want that for yourself, or if all your friends are coupled-up and putting pressure on you, but I do know that this guy is not going to help you with anything you want or need. Get out.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 3:11 PM on September 3, 2010
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How depressing.
I think you should get yourself into therapy. Life can be better than this.
posted by jon1270 at 8:11 AM on September 2, 2010 [5 favorites]