I like the people, but I hate their work
August 27, 2010 1:02 PM   Subscribe

Is it worth it to report coworkers that are making a mess out of things?

I've been with my current company for a long time, but am relatively new to my current workgroup (about a year). More and more, I am realizing that a good portion of the group has a horrible work ethic. Two of the people that are in charge of projects and instruct other people, are two of the most disorganized people I have ever seen.
I don't want to go on and on about specifics, but I'm confident that this is not simply my opinion, especially considering several people in the workgroup (ones that I would consider great workers and people that have had to clean up messes from the bad workers) have recently quit the company entirely and have gone elsewhere.

Right now I'm having to help fix problems in a huge project. The incompetence so far is astounding. If things had been done right the first time, the project would not be past due and (no doubt) past budget. I can outline the problems and easy changes that would have worked better, but the question is: should I?

Should I go to the head of the department and talk about this? Like I said, I have concrete examples. I could outline how old data was used, which then became necessary to painstakingly correct line by line, which more than doubled the time, personnel, and resources; I could explain how if different programs and processes were used, it would have been easier from the start, and any subsequent corrections would be easy to apply and verify.

The thing is: it is not my typical job to do these corrections, and it certainly isn't in my job description to be a project manager. The only reason it is on my shoulders to fix these things now is because the whole project is so drastically messed up and past due that they need all the help that they can get, and they know that I can fix it. And [full disclosure]- my perfectionist streak makes ignoring these problems impossible.

If I report these things, I don't want the manager to think "great, I'll put you in charge of supervising these things". No. I'm a graphic designer for gossakes, being a project manager would give me an ulcer (and I sure as hell don't get paid to do this stuff: the people that are screwing it up are paid to do this). However, I'm getting an ulcer now and a minion's wage because I'm the one having to deal with this mess. Oh- and I'm not sure how the manager would go about resolving this problem without spilling the beans that I tattled on them. I don't want to be the team rat. But I don't want to be the team doormat-that-does-everyone's-job either.



tldr: Do I report incompetent coworkers that are above me in order to try to get people to do a better job (or get new people hired that can do it) and save my sanity? Or, do I let them slowly hang their own rope and hope someone else will call them on it or it will get better because I damn sure don't want to do their job?

I saw this thread, but that's mainly should I stay and fix or quit (and quitting is not a consideration for me). And this thread describes a similar problem but isn't specifically questioning ratting out the problem people...
posted by Eicats to Work & Money (16 answers total)
 
Who do you actually report to? Do they know how you use your time? Do you have a written job description? Are you unionized or in civil service? Is your company blessed with an adequate HR department? Do you have a good working relationship with the person in charge? Has anyone sent you an email or other written instructions to fix this stuff? In what sense are these people "above" you?

I would be cautious if you don't have a lot of "yes" answers. The structure of your team and larger environment matters a lot here.
posted by SMPA at 1:19 PM on August 27, 2010


Why don't you draft a "lessons learned" document that you share with your supervisor. Don't mention any names, but do some sort of forensic report that outlines decision paths, and perhaps identifies an actual $ cost of the various decisions; compare those decisions and their actual costs with your solution, and cost out your solutions. Ideally your proposed solutions would save a lot of time and money.

But don't mention any names.
posted by KokuRyu at 1:21 PM on August 27, 2010 [1 favorite]


I understand your pain but if you do something like this it is highly likely it will make things worse for you one way or another. I have never been able to do this or seen anyone else do this without causing a world of hurt. Sorry
posted by Justin Case at 1:29 PM on August 27, 2010


No. I'm a graphic designer for gossakes, being a project manager would give me an ulcer
That says it. Nothing else really matters.

[That said, being confronted with incompetence gives ulcers too. You'll need to find a balance here; or some aggro-workout-routine, or mindfulness, or develop a habit of perfectionist-ly keeping a special diary for all the bloopers around you, or whatnot.)
posted by Namlit at 1:31 PM on August 27, 2010


Response by poster: SMPA: oh boy, that's why it's complicated. (And how can I explain this without being so specific it broadcasts to the world who I am?)

Our workgroup within the company has an overall supervisor, but then the group is broken into two divisions, with a manager position of each division. So essentially, I have two supervisors within my group: my division supervisor and the group manager. One of the disorganized people, is my division supervisor; the other division doesn't have a manager assigned, but the other specific person I'm referring to is close to manager position in that group. I am considering talking to the overall group supervisor about these problems because that person has been trying to get a handle on procedural problems within the group.

By all means- these aren't the only two people within the group that I have determined have problems with their organizational skills/work output, but they are the ones responsible for this most recent project.

Do they know how I use my time: yes, they are the ones directly instructing me to do this work. Yes, I have some email trails; and I've personally documented other things. Does the top group supervisor know about how I'm using my time and the problems I'm correcting? No.

This is not a unionized/civil service company; I work in an at-will state.

KokuRyu: I considered that, but it's a small enough group, that the people responsible for the screw-ups will be evident. And I think if reported, the first question from the supervisor will be "who's the project manager", so I think it's unavoidable to generalize this.

Namlit: you describe basically what I'm doing now- keeping a log of the problems and what I've had to do to correct them. I figured it's good to document and maybe I shouldn't take it any further than that...
posted by Eicats at 1:38 PM on August 27, 2010 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: and I would say I get along with these coworkers (I would feel terrible if they were fired- I do not want that to happen), I just wish someone else that is capable was doing the work
posted by Eicats at 1:39 PM on August 27, 2010


You need to reanalyze how you approach work. If it's not your job to manage these people, then don't redo their work. Get over your perfectionist streak because it's probably making you a difficult employee. When you work as part of a team, you have to figure out how to be a part of the team.

Your perfectionism and the way you think of it as a virtue or a plus is probably why other people aren't taking on the responsibility they need to and you simply have to check out a little or find a different work environment. You need to just learn how to stick to doing your job, even if it means you turn out a poor end result. In the end, if you want to keep your job, the most important thing is getting along with others and being able to motivate them to do their work well.
posted by anniecat at 1:44 PM on August 27, 2010


Best answer: Ask the group supervisor to clarify your role within your division, and advise him you are doing other stuff and are concerned about the impact it is having on your assigned duties. And take up some kind of meditation or other calming practice because I think you are stuck until the powers above you figure out what is going on and how bad it is (probably after something goes horribly awry, someone new and powerful shows up, or a lot of people quit.) A PM's biggest job is managing personnel, according to my textbook, and someone isn't handling it right.
posted by SMPA at 1:48 PM on August 27, 2010


Best answer: I share SMPA's questions here.

Personally, I hate the idea of reporting co-workers if I haven't discussed the problem with them directly first. Would it be possible for you to organize a meeting with your workgroup (sans supervisors/bosses) and let them know that you're feeling overworked and underhelped? If you have other job responsiblities besides this cleanup effort, tell them that. You could address the organizational problems of the project and present your ideas on how to fix things, but in an informal way that wouldn't strain your workplace relationships. (Which, to be honest, reporting them CAN and WILL do, as they always figure out who tattled, and then it's uncomfortable for everyone.) So maybe a "Hey guys, it seems like I've been doing the lion's share of the work with this project. I'm happy to help fix things but I'm just a graphic designer here and I wonder if we could collaborate a bit more on this. I've come up with some ideas that I think would be really helpful for all of us. I know we're all stressed out about this thing."

Then, a couple of weeks later, if there's no change - talk to your manager. And when you talk to your manager, you can tell him/her that you took the iniative to meet with the group and ask for their help with the project. You'll look like someone who's really trying to bring the group together and get this thing done, not just a complainer who refuses to do things outside their job description. (I'm not saying that's what you are, but a manager might view things differently.) If you sense your manager isn't taking you seriously enough, you can remind him/her that you are a graphic designer, and you have other responsibilities that require your attention, and that you have asked for help that you are not getting. I don't know what your manager is like but sometimes, overworked themselves, they overlook these kinds of complaints, or handle them totally poorly, and that's very possible here.

Good luck.
posted by blackcatcuriouser at 1:48 PM on August 27, 2010 [1 favorite]


Best answer: Are these people bad at their jobs because they don't care, or because they don't have the right project management/organizational skills? If it's the former, I don't think there's anything you can do to fix it. In that case I would probably make some discreet, no-names comments to the higher-ups about the project being very poorly managed, and hope that they get replaced. But if the problem is that these people really don't know how to do things better, perhaps you can give them gentle tips. A friendly, commiserating "Ack, I wish we had done it XYZ way the first time, we'd be so far ahead!" might help them realize that they should do it that way in the next project.

I can outline the problems and easy changes that would have worked better

Perhaps these coworkers of yours could too. Hindsight is 20/20, after all. If you bring a list to a high-up boss noting all the things that would have worked better on this overdue project, you're just going to sound like a whiner -- unless you can say at least one of these things:

- person X clearly should have known to do it the better way in the first place, so it is their incompetence rather than bad luck that made things take forever
- the kind of alternate approaches you're suggesting are relevant to future (like, definitely happening in the near future) projects

Complaining without suggesting anything that can be done to fix the issue is just complaining. Offering concrete suggestions to help things go more smoothly in forseeable future projects (from "get a new project manager" to "do it this way the first time") will be understood by a good manager as constructive. But as you worry, it might get you stuck with the PM job.
posted by vytae at 1:54 PM on August 27, 2010


Response by poster: Anniecat: It's not that I'm looking at other people's work and redoing it because I can't stand the mistakes- I'm being asked to fix it.

I like Blackcatcuriouser and vytae's idea of trying to give specific suggestions to the specific people first. At this point, I'm not sure it it's a problem of being lazy on their part, not caring, or being overwhelmed and not knowing a better approach. In the past, I havn't had a lot of luck with this (they don't care if there's a better way/no time for better method/want to continue with familiar chaos), but I agree with not wanting to be a tattle-tale or complainer. I want a solution in the best, least amount of strain, way.
posted by Eicats at 2:04 PM on August 27, 2010


Possibly they have a poor work ethic, are disorganized, are incompetent, and the integrity of the information is utterly screwed up. however, you seem to be ascribing clear wrongdoing to what may possibly be largely ignorance.

Look, not everyone is good at understanding the best way to organize information to reduce redundancy and wasted time. A system gets put in place by someone, and it tends to be used FAR after it has outlived its usefulness and any remaining logic. I say this from SO MUCH EXPERIENCE with this. A lot of people would rather do a job in a tedious and lower-quality fashion than try to wrap their heads around a new procedure.

Instead of coming in all tattling on your coworkers for doing their jobs wrong (in your humble opinion), share your concerns with your supervisor about the errors and confusion that affect how well you do your job.
posted by desuetude at 2:06 PM on August 27, 2010


...what I'm doing now- keeping a log of the problems and what I've had to do to correct them

A log also helps you to reflect about whether you do have to get active about your co-workers at some point.
I once didn't keep a diary and regretted it later: new job; new language; unclear distribution of labor; my next-higher-in-rank a lazy (as in 'completely paralyzed') mis-recruitment; in the end I had to bear some of the consequences of his non-functioning. Had I written down everything on a daily basis, I would have recognized the point when things got out of hand - the moment when I saw an important, month-old not-dealt-with file collecting dust on his desk; the moment when I, my lower position notwithstanding, should have stepped in, called him to order, and saved a lot of people a lot of work and pain.
Even if you decide that you don't want to actively alter the situation at this point, writing down helps you to order your feelings an thoughts about the situation.

I would feel terrible if they were fired- I do not want that to happen
So that's the other one you need to tape to your bathroom mirror.

I haven't ever worked in a situation where I haven't, at one point or another, run into some manifestation of some co-workers' incompetence. I think one of the lessons is to realize that this is a default situation, and the happy-competent-team-o-chums ideal a complete exception. Depressing perhaps, but isn't it good that you are able to do your work in an organized fashion? Try retrieve some positive energy from that realization.
posted by Namlit at 2:14 PM on August 27, 2010


It sounds like you need to find a new place to work... wait a minute, why does it have to be you?

If you want to avoid pissing off your coworkers with some sort of lessons learned document, why not bring them into the process first? Show them your document, ask for input, and then send it to your supervisor.
posted by KokuRyu at 2:15 PM on August 27, 2010 [1 favorite]


Poor management typically prevents training of employees which could fix problems and disorganization. In most of these cases employees are given responsibilities for which they don't have a clue and stuck with the aftermath. It isn't the employees fault. Granted there are cases of pure incompetence but even then a good manager can get something useful out of them or fire them.

You could start taking it upon yourself to start training proper procedures to the employees or managers as the case may be. Obviously get permission for this.
posted by JJ86 at 2:41 PM on August 27, 2010


Response by poster: Wow, there is a lot of great input here! Something Desuetude said struck a chord: "A lot of people would rather do a job in a tedious and lower-quality fashion than try to wrap their heads around a new procedure." I think that's a big part of this. Thanks for all of the feedback! I'm going to mark this resolved because for now I'm going to log the situation and possibly try to coax a few better procedures into the situation.
posted by Eicats at 9:08 AM on August 30, 2010


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