How do I feel more secure about the amount of money I make?
August 26, 2010 12:23 PM Subscribe
How do I feel more secure about the amount of money I make?
My girlfriend is getting a new job where she will probably be making significantly more money than I do. I'm a MSW student who just started a new job at a homeless services agency. This is also my first "real" job.
For some reason, this has me overcome with insecurity. I'm not particularly old school, so I don't think I should be earning more money than she does, but for some reason this situation just has me flustered.
I do have some self confidence issues, and the WORST part of me worries that this will mean she will "outgrow" me or something along those lines...
I've read about the trend of young women out-earning their partners, so I'm hoping some folks here will have some kind of experience with this. Feeling this insecurity is making me act strangely, and I really don't want to seem unsupportive, because I want nothing but the best for her.
Thank you for your kind responses.
My girlfriend is getting a new job where she will probably be making significantly more money than I do. I'm a MSW student who just started a new job at a homeless services agency. This is also my first "real" job.
For some reason, this has me overcome with insecurity. I'm not particularly old school, so I don't think I should be earning more money than she does, but for some reason this situation just has me flustered.
I do have some self confidence issues, and the WORST part of me worries that this will mean she will "outgrow" me or something along those lines...
I've read about the trend of young women out-earning their partners, so I'm hoping some folks here will have some kind of experience with this. Feeling this insecurity is making me act strangely, and I really don't want to seem unsupportive, because I want nothing but the best for her.
Thank you for your kind responses.
Nobody works at a homeless service agency for the money. Nobody studies for an MSW with the expectation that they will be making a lot of money from it. You've made your choice therefore for presumably a different reason, and I hope it's one you are proud of.
So ask yourself, why did you do an MSW? Why are you working at a homeless agency? If you have good answers to those questions, it doesn't really matter how much money anyone else makes, your gf included.
posted by modernnomad at 12:29 PM on August 26, 2010 [14 favorites]
So ask yourself, why did you do an MSW? Why are you working at a homeless agency? If you have good answers to those questions, it doesn't really matter how much money anyone else makes, your gf included.
posted by modernnomad at 12:29 PM on August 26, 2010 [14 favorites]
I'm a MSW student who just started a new job at a homeless services agency. This is also my first "real" job.
Absolutely no part of that remotely spells "big bucks." Maybe you should just accept that your chosen career path will simply pay lower than others and relax about montary pissing contests.
posted by damn dirty ape at 12:29 PM on August 26, 2010
Absolutely no part of that remotely spells "big bucks." Maybe you should just accept that your chosen career path will simply pay lower than others and relax about montary pissing contests.
posted by damn dirty ape at 12:29 PM on August 26, 2010
Even though society has banged it into our heads that we must think this way, I'd strongly encourage you to approach this from a perspective that doesn't involve your partner's gender. Because grr! I don't blame you, but that's really patronizing. (But you seem to know this.)
Start with thinking about how you, as a partner, contribute to the relationship, and how you would want any sort of partner to contribute back. What do you value? What does your partner value? How can you provide that? What would happen if you don't provide that? (Not even an OMG I SUCK AS A PARTNER thing, but ways in which you could feel good about providing a sufficient level of support, even if it isn't the top level of support you COULD provide. You'd get really tired if you were at the top of your game all the time.)
She won't "outgrow" you unless her needs and your abilities and your shared interests don't match. Those are things that can shift with money, but don't really have to change. The things you contribute to a relationship go so much further than cold, hard, cash.
posted by Madamina at 12:32 PM on August 26, 2010 [3 favorites]
Start with thinking about how you, as a partner, contribute to the relationship, and how you would want any sort of partner to contribute back. What do you value? What does your partner value? How can you provide that? What would happen if you don't provide that? (Not even an OMG I SUCK AS A PARTNER thing, but ways in which you could feel good about providing a sufficient level of support, even if it isn't the top level of support you COULD provide. You'd get really tired if you were at the top of your game all the time.)
She won't "outgrow" you unless her needs and your abilities and your shared interests don't match. Those are things that can shift with money, but don't really have to change. The things you contribute to a relationship go so much further than cold, hard, cash.
posted by Madamina at 12:32 PM on August 26, 2010 [3 favorites]
Marry her. Then it's all "our" money.
I'm sort of serious - I earn more, but I have so much more debt; my husband earns less, but came to the relationship with no debt and significant savings. After five years of marriage, we both consider all of the money "our" money.
Also, seriously, you need to discuss this with her, because she might have feelings that are awkward about it to. For instance, I never gave it a moment's thought that I make more; once we had kids, I started to, because I wanted to work less. So in hindsight, I wish we had done a better job of talking about our finances and agreeing to live significantly below our means in case one of us lost our jobs/wanted to quit/whatever. This has nothing to do with who makes more money and everything to do with communicating about money in general. Which you should definitely do if you think this is a long term relationship anyway.
Beyond that, I think it's hard to give you advice because it isn't clear how you guys handle the money now - do you live together? Split expenses? Go dutch? From the get go, my then boyfriend and I took turns paying for things. Now all our money is in one checking account. Not everyone operates that way - some people keep all the money separate; some women expect to be taken out, etc etc. So, YMMV.
posted by dpx.mfx at 12:34 PM on August 26, 2010 [8 favorites]
I'm sort of serious - I earn more, but I have so much more debt; my husband earns less, but came to the relationship with no debt and significant savings. After five years of marriage, we both consider all of the money "our" money.
Also, seriously, you need to discuss this with her, because she might have feelings that are awkward about it to. For instance, I never gave it a moment's thought that I make more; once we had kids, I started to, because I wanted to work less. So in hindsight, I wish we had done a better job of talking about our finances and agreeing to live significantly below our means in case one of us lost our jobs/wanted to quit/whatever. This has nothing to do with who makes more money and everything to do with communicating about money in general. Which you should definitely do if you think this is a long term relationship anyway.
Beyond that, I think it's hard to give you advice because it isn't clear how you guys handle the money now - do you live together? Split expenses? Go dutch? From the get go, my then boyfriend and I took turns paying for things. Now all our money is in one checking account. Not everyone operates that way - some people keep all the money separate; some women expect to be taken out, etc etc. So, YMMV.
posted by dpx.mfx at 12:34 PM on August 26, 2010 [8 favorites]
I usually earn more than my husband. Doesn't bother me at all, but it does bother him sometimes. I think that's why he's firmly taken charge of certain bills - that way he is taking care of some financial areas in a breadwinner way. Like I said, I don't care how much we make in relation to each other, but having certain utilities in his name and letting him pay those on his own makes him feel like a good partner in the relationship.
Also, partnering responsibilities aren't all financial. Maybe you'll feel a bit better if you carve out your areas of contribution - could be certain bills, could be cooking, household maintenance... whatever helps you feel you're pulling your weight, whether financially or otherwise.
posted by L'Estrange Fruit at 12:35 PM on August 26, 2010
Also, partnering responsibilities aren't all financial. Maybe you'll feel a bit better if you carve out your areas of contribution - could be certain bills, could be cooking, household maintenance... whatever helps you feel you're pulling your weight, whether financially or otherwise.
posted by L'Estrange Fruit at 12:35 PM on August 26, 2010
Do you *want* to have a higher-paying job? (the work, not the salary) If so, change careers/education paths - immediately! If not, embrace the fact that the job makes you happier than the larger salary, regardless of others' salaries.
posted by Neekee at 12:36 PM on August 26, 2010
posted by Neekee at 12:36 PM on August 26, 2010
I think that your statement that you "aren't particularly old school" is belied by your insecurity about this. I think you are being a bit sexist, and unfair to your girlfriend. If you were making more money, would you be worried about outgrowing her? I bet not.
I am a woman. I make more money than my live-in boyfriend, by a factor of 2 to 1. I'm also younger than him. He is nothing but supportive of me and my career, and has never once suggested that there is anything weird about the fact that I'm the "breadwinner."
If he ever came to me and told me he was insecure about the fact that I made more money than him, I would be personally offended. I worked hard to get and keep my job, and I intend to continue working hard at it going forward, and I certainly wouldn't want to be in a relationship with someone who resented that or who thought it wasn't my place as a woman to do so.
You should probably discuss this with her if you think the insecurity might eventually lead to resentment or cause issues, but I wouldn't expect her to react well to it.
posted by CharlieSue at 12:39 PM on August 26, 2010 [2 favorites]
I am a woman. I make more money than my live-in boyfriend, by a factor of 2 to 1. I'm also younger than him. He is nothing but supportive of me and my career, and has never once suggested that there is anything weird about the fact that I'm the "breadwinner."
If he ever came to me and told me he was insecure about the fact that I made more money than him, I would be personally offended. I worked hard to get and keep my job, and I intend to continue working hard at it going forward, and I certainly wouldn't want to be in a relationship with someone who resented that or who thought it wasn't my place as a woman to do so.
You should probably discuss this with her if you think the insecurity might eventually lead to resentment or cause issues, but I wouldn't expect her to react well to it.
posted by CharlieSue at 12:39 PM on August 26, 2010 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: I've already talked to her about it, and it went over as well as can be expected. I continued to get trapped in my head over the issue, so I came elsewhere for some input. Thank you everyone for helping me work through this.
posted by plungerjoke at 12:41 PM on August 26, 2010
posted by plungerjoke at 12:41 PM on August 26, 2010
I really don't want to seem unsupportive, because I want nothing but the best for her.
Perhaps this is your hang-up? It sounds like you feel like you're free-loading, not carrying enough financial weight, or somehow letting your girlfriend down with this decision. And your phrasing of the prior sentence ("the trend of young women out-earning their partners") makes it sound like there is still some mental hang-up. Sure, the glass ceiling is still there for many, but it's not something novel that young women could and would make more than young men in different fields.
How much are you two spending? How do you handle bills, meals, gift-giving? Is her salary allowing her to live in a new social bracket which you cannot achieve? If not, it sounds like you're over-thinking all this. How did she respond to your concerns? Realize that there will be unbalances in the relationship, and she will be able to support you, just as you are able to support her, and not just financially.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:42 PM on August 26, 2010
Perhaps this is your hang-up? It sounds like you feel like you're free-loading, not carrying enough financial weight, or somehow letting your girlfriend down with this decision. And your phrasing of the prior sentence ("the trend of young women out-earning their partners") makes it sound like there is still some mental hang-up. Sure, the glass ceiling is still there for many, but it's not something novel that young women could and would make more than young men in different fields.
How much are you two spending? How do you handle bills, meals, gift-giving? Is her salary allowing her to live in a new social bracket which you cannot achieve? If not, it sounds like you're over-thinking all this. How did she respond to your concerns? Realize that there will be unbalances in the relationship, and she will be able to support you, just as you are able to support her, and not just financially.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:42 PM on August 26, 2010
If it doesn't bother her, it shouldn't bother you. And no quietly seething with resentment and throwing around money to show you do make some when out with friends! You don't need to mention it to outsiders at all, its a non-issue. Don't live in the past, keep reminding yourself that it is now okay for women to earn more and is going to happen more and more often just like men staying at home to raise kids.
I read an article somewhere recently that claimed that fewer men cheat when their wives earn 75% of their salaries, and fewer women cheat when they earn nothing, how awful! Help fix this sad sad world.
posted by meepmeow at 12:51 PM on August 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
I read an article somewhere recently that claimed that fewer men cheat when their wives earn 75% of their salaries, and fewer women cheat when they earn nothing, how awful! Help fix this sad sad world.
posted by meepmeow at 12:51 PM on August 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
I don't think you're being "old school" about this. You're human and as humans sometimes we get jealous of what our partners have, even though we love them and feel joy for their accomplishments. I'm female, my partner is male, and he earns more money than I do. He works in oil and gas and I work for a non-profit. That bugs me sometimes, because I know I work just as hard if not harder than him but our society values certain work above other kinds of work. That's not his fault and I try to remember that. What helps is that within our relationship we keep things fair and equal and within my own head I try to focus on my partner the person and not his salary.
posted by zamdaba at 12:52 PM on August 26, 2010
posted by zamdaba at 12:52 PM on August 26, 2010
First, make a list of all the people in your life (including people you barely know, such as people who comment on MetaFilter.) Then, think about the ones whose jobs/income you have no knowledge of: why do you respect them? Why do you admire them? Why did you put them on your list?
Income is only a measure of the person you are, if what you care about is money. There are so many other reasons to admire and respect a person, and frankly (as someone who makes a good living) I look at people who do lots of volunteering and other valuable but low-paying work, and I think "I wish I had the guts to live like that, and do so much good, instead of needing a financial security blanket."
So adjust your own value system, allowing yourself to judge your own merits on the same criteria that you judge other people's merits on. Unless, of course, you judge people primarily on their income -- in which case, I'd work on knocking that off first.
posted by davejay at 12:57 PM on August 26, 2010 [2 favorites]
Income is only a measure of the person you are, if what you care about is money. There are so many other reasons to admire and respect a person, and frankly (as someone who makes a good living) I look at people who do lots of volunteering and other valuable but low-paying work, and I think "I wish I had the guts to live like that, and do so much good, instead of needing a financial security blanket."
So adjust your own value system, allowing yourself to judge your own merits on the same criteria that you judge other people's merits on. Unless, of course, you judge people primarily on their income -- in which case, I'd work on knocking that off first.
posted by davejay at 12:57 PM on August 26, 2010 [2 favorites]
dpx.mfx has the right of it. It truly does not matter in the slightest unless you have differing attitudes concerning money and gender roles in a marriage. You never mentioned marriage, but if you one day plan to get married then you really need to discuss if she will expect you to provide for her when (or if) children come along. It's a nasty anachronistic expectation to place on you, but as often as not that's what will end up being required. Will she be willing to take a huge financial hit when she stops working to stay with kids, if that is what she plans to do? It may not even be an issue, but it's something that needs to be discussed if things are serious.
On the other hand, do you think it's possible that you have made an error in choosing a career? Social work is a notoriously low-paying field, and I suspect you may have just realized that your salary is more important to you than you initially thought. Why not go back to school for something that pays better? Or heck, why not go into what your girlfriend is doing?
posted by Willie0248 at 1:04 PM on August 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
On the other hand, do you think it's possible that you have made an error in choosing a career? Social work is a notoriously low-paying field, and I suspect you may have just realized that your salary is more important to you than you initially thought. Why not go back to school for something that pays better? Or heck, why not go into what your girlfriend is doing?
posted by Willie0248 at 1:04 PM on August 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
The bad:
I think that despite all the agreement about equality, there is a tendency in a lot of people to look down on women who are supporting a worthless layabout boyfriend/husband instead of finding a real man, leading in some cases into a tendency to conflate that with situations where the women is the primary breadwinner.
I think there is also a tendency, even among some women who rationally deeply committed to equality and who would be horrified to realize they still have this feeling somewhere deep down, to lose some element of respect for someone they are providing for instead of being provided for. An entire lifetime of tv and movies and books and each other does not associate that relationship with success, but with "you could do better".
(These problems are less likely to manifest if you're not living together.)
The good:
Your career is not one that says "I'm trying to Make It, I'm just not very good at it", it's one that says "I see many things as more valuable to me than money". That's a fair defense against creeping lack of respect. Initially at least - so long as your values are respected.
The tricky:
If she wants to do something together and you can't afford your share, you both need to be able to deal with this easily and without friction, and without you ending up living beyond your means, or ending up being subsidized by her with unwritten strings attached, or you always shooting down the things she wants to do.
The best:
These relationships do work wonderfully for countless people.
The trap:
If you are insecure about your money and worth, you will destroy the relationship. Not the money, not her, you. You are the expert on you, so if you think you're not bringing enough to the table (money or otherwise), you are giving her expert advice - that she will heed - that you are not bringing enough to the table. But don't be a narcisist - ensure that you are bringing a lot to the table.
Perhaps also bear in mind that (providing you're not seriously disadvantaged) it's not very difficult to make a lot of money - all you do is be an asshole who just wants to make a lot of money and will happily screw people to do it. The world would clearly be better off without those kinds of people, hence money is clearly not a good measure of worth.
Lastly:
Well done - better that your GF makes a lot of money than she doesn't.
posted by -harlequin- at 1:06 PM on August 26, 2010 [3 favorites]
I think that despite all the agreement about equality, there is a tendency in a lot of people to look down on women who are supporting a worthless layabout boyfriend/husband instead of finding a real man, leading in some cases into a tendency to conflate that with situations where the women is the primary breadwinner.
I think there is also a tendency, even among some women who rationally deeply committed to equality and who would be horrified to realize they still have this feeling somewhere deep down, to lose some element of respect for someone they are providing for instead of being provided for. An entire lifetime of tv and movies and books and each other does not associate that relationship with success, but with "you could do better".
(These problems are less likely to manifest if you're not living together.)
The good:
Your career is not one that says "I'm trying to Make It, I'm just not very good at it", it's one that says "I see many things as more valuable to me than money". That's a fair defense against creeping lack of respect. Initially at least - so long as your values are respected.
The tricky:
If she wants to do something together and you can't afford your share, you both need to be able to deal with this easily and without friction, and without you ending up living beyond your means, or ending up being subsidized by her with unwritten strings attached, or you always shooting down the things she wants to do.
The best:
These relationships do work wonderfully for countless people.
The trap:
If you are insecure about your money and worth, you will destroy the relationship. Not the money, not her, you. You are the expert on you, so if you think you're not bringing enough to the table (money or otherwise), you are giving her expert advice - that she will heed - that you are not bringing enough to the table. But don't be a narcisist - ensure that you are bringing a lot to the table.
Perhaps also bear in mind that (providing you're not seriously disadvantaged) it's not very difficult to make a lot of money - all you do is be an asshole who just wants to make a lot of money and will happily screw people to do it. The world would clearly be better off without those kinds of people, hence money is clearly not a good measure of worth.
Lastly:
Well done - better that your GF makes a lot of money than she doesn't.
posted by -harlequin- at 1:06 PM on August 26, 2010 [3 favorites]
Ten years ago, I was making well over six figures as a mercenary programmer. My wife at the time cared for the kids, made house, etc. It was fine.
Today, my current wife is making nearly six figures as an IT manager. I am screwing around with iPhone apps and photography and doing dishes. It's fine.
Why is it fine?
Two reasons:
1) Because I don't base my self-worth on my income.
2) My partner doesn't either.
posted by seanmpuckett at 1:22 PM on August 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
Today, my current wife is making nearly six figures as an IT manager. I am screwing around with iPhone apps and photography and doing dishes. It's fine.
Why is it fine?
Two reasons:
1) Because I don't base my self-worth on my income.
2) My partner doesn't either.
posted by seanmpuckett at 1:22 PM on August 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: It isn't even like it is a huge gap. She has been having some rough times lately, and I've been helping her out a bit. I guess the shift is just a change that I'm going to take a little time to get used to.
posted by plungerjoke at 1:25 PM on August 26, 2010
posted by plungerjoke at 1:25 PM on August 26, 2010
Response by poster: Also, everyone always says "social workers don't make any money." Granted, they will never be investment bankers, but when one gets into a supervisory role (my plan), they do not make bad money at all... At least not MSWs.
posted by plungerjoke at 1:26 PM on August 26, 2010
posted by plungerjoke at 1:26 PM on August 26, 2010
You might consider that you could be blowing this out of proportion due to the normal feelings of insecurity, self-doubt, and weirdness that come witha new job, and that as you grow in your job, have some achievements, move from awkward new job phase into mastery phase, you'll feel better and it won't be such a big deal.
Maybe get involved in something that will give you a venue to achieve something--even if it's just like losing ten pounds or running a mile or learning to do X.
You probably will have to settle with being a little jealous about it for a little until you get your focus off the money. On the up side, she'll probably pay for dinner.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 1:33 PM on August 26, 2010
Maybe get involved in something that will give you a venue to achieve something--even if it's just like losing ten pounds or running a mile or learning to do X.
You probably will have to settle with being a little jealous about it for a little until you get your focus off the money. On the up side, she'll probably pay for dinner.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 1:33 PM on August 26, 2010
I'm not particularly old school, so I don't think I should be earning more money than she does, but for some reason this situation just has me flustered.
I wouldn't necessarily jump to the conclusion that your discomfort has anything to do with gender, or even really being out-earned by a romantic partner. If this is your first "real" job out of school, then I think it's somewhat natural to be looking around at what other peers (including but not limited to your girlfriend) are earning and how their careers are progressing. We all still have that part of our monkey brain that wants to look around at others in the pack and make sure we're not fucking up, especially when we find ourselves in new and unknown situations.
You know--only because you're dating her and she has told you--how much money your girlfriend is making, and it's probably stirring up some anxiety that you should be making more or maybe you chose the wrong thing or you're going to somehow fall behind what someone your age "should" be earning. Ask yourself this thought experiment: if you found out your best friend from college or another student in your program was making less than you, or still didn't have a job, would you feel the same way about your girlfriend? Or would that information somehow make you feel more secure about your relationship? If finding out other peers are making less (and trust me, you do have some peers who are making less and struggling to find decent work, they're probably just not sharing their salary info with you) would make you feel better, than this isn't really a relationship problem at all. If it wouldn't change how you feel, well, then you'll probably have to look a bit more deeply about whether you are more old-school than you thought.
posted by iminurmefi at 1:44 PM on August 26, 2010 [3 favorites]
I wouldn't necessarily jump to the conclusion that your discomfort has anything to do with gender, or even really being out-earned by a romantic partner. If this is your first "real" job out of school, then I think it's somewhat natural to be looking around at what other peers (including but not limited to your girlfriend) are earning and how their careers are progressing. We all still have that part of our monkey brain that wants to look around at others in the pack and make sure we're not fucking up, especially when we find ourselves in new and unknown situations.
You know--only because you're dating her and she has told you--how much money your girlfriend is making, and it's probably stirring up some anxiety that you should be making more or maybe you chose the wrong thing or you're going to somehow fall behind what someone your age "should" be earning. Ask yourself this thought experiment: if you found out your best friend from college or another student in your program was making less than you, or still didn't have a job, would you feel the same way about your girlfriend? Or would that information somehow make you feel more secure about your relationship? If finding out other peers are making less (and trust me, you do have some peers who are making less and struggling to find decent work, they're probably just not sharing their salary info with you) would make you feel better, than this isn't really a relationship problem at all. If it wouldn't change how you feel, well, then you'll probably have to look a bit more deeply about whether you are more old-school than you thought.
posted by iminurmefi at 1:44 PM on August 26, 2010 [3 favorites]
Okay here's a totally superficial answer:
There are certain jobs where it seems to be socially acceptable for the male partner to be earning less than his female partner. These are the kinds of jobs that society looks up to but doesn't pay nearly enough. The first that come to mind are Firefighters, Police, and Teachers. Those are the big three, but Social Workers are definitely on that list. Especially ones who work with the homeless. Bonus points if you work with homeless children.
If she ever had a conversation about your earning less than her it would probably be her bragging about how hard you work in an underpaid job dealing with the parts of society that other people just brush off or ignore.
posted by TooFewShoes at 2:07 PM on August 26, 2010 [5 favorites]
There are certain jobs where it seems to be socially acceptable for the male partner to be earning less than his female partner. These are the kinds of jobs that society looks up to but doesn't pay nearly enough. The first that come to mind are Firefighters, Police, and Teachers. Those are the big three, but Social Workers are definitely on that list. Especially ones who work with the homeless. Bonus points if you work with homeless children.
If she ever had a conversation about your earning less than her it would probably be her bragging about how hard you work in an underpaid job dealing with the parts of society that other people just brush off or ignore.
posted by TooFewShoes at 2:07 PM on August 26, 2010 [5 favorites]
With the exception of myself, most of the women I know outearn their partners.
If you like your job/profession, I wouldn't worry about it. Also, she could lose her job or have her pay cut and have a totally different salary. Making money is sometimes just lucky business.
posted by anniecat at 2:10 PM on August 26, 2010
If you like your job/profession, I wouldn't worry about it. Also, she could lose her job or have her pay cut and have a totally different salary. Making money is sometimes just lucky business.
posted by anniecat at 2:10 PM on August 26, 2010
Important question: what does your girlfriend do? Money aside, does she do something that's rewarding to her and seems like a worthwhile contribution to humanity to you?
Working yourself around to an attitude where you actually have disdain for money-oriented people could probably help you with your self-esteem issues. You're not making so much money because you're doing something awesome -- don't just embrace it, get a little snooty about people who went another path. Don't worry about them, they can drown their sorrows in a bathtub full of Macallan 18-year.
I may not sound like I'm serious. I'm serious -- you become a little bit misanthropic, but you get a bit more comfortable with your life choices.
But if your girlfriend works at an investment bank, that might not be such a good attitude change for your relationship.
posted by gurple at 3:23 PM on August 26, 2010
Working yourself around to an attitude where you actually have disdain for money-oriented people could probably help you with your self-esteem issues. You're not making so much money because you're doing something awesome -- don't just embrace it, get a little snooty about people who went another path. Don't worry about them, they can drown their sorrows in a bathtub full of Macallan 18-year.
I may not sound like I'm serious. I'm serious -- you become a little bit misanthropic, but you get a bit more comfortable with your life choices.
But if your girlfriend works at an investment bank, that might not be such a good attitude change for your relationship.
posted by gurple at 3:23 PM on August 26, 2010
I think your feelings are an entirely natural and understandable reaction, and for what it's worth, it doesn't seem like a gender issue to me.
I've been on both sides of this situation, and all I'd say is that talking to her about your insecurities is good, but at some point you need to get over it. Let's face it, few couples earn exactly the same amount of money throughout their relationship. If you're planning on being with her for a long time, there will be periods where you may earn more than her (if she's made redundant or goes back to study, for instance). As long as you're both clear about what you want to spend the extra money on (if she just wants to spend it on shoes and trips away with her fancy new work colleagues without you, then that's not a good sign. If she wants to go out to dinner more often or plan a trip with you, then it's all good!).
You don't say what she does, but I'm guessing it's not working for a charity. Recognise that the work you do is something that gives back to society in a way that her job doesn't. You're contributing more to society than she is - should she feel guilty about that? Possibly. Your contributions to the relationship are equal but different - she's bringing in more money, you're actually helping people and giving back enough for the both of you.
posted by finding.perdita at 3:38 PM on August 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
I've been on both sides of this situation, and all I'd say is that talking to her about your insecurities is good, but at some point you need to get over it. Let's face it, few couples earn exactly the same amount of money throughout their relationship. If you're planning on being with her for a long time, there will be periods where you may earn more than her (if she's made redundant or goes back to study, for instance). As long as you're both clear about what you want to spend the extra money on (if she just wants to spend it on shoes and trips away with her fancy new work colleagues without you, then that's not a good sign. If she wants to go out to dinner more often or plan a trip with you, then it's all good!).
You don't say what she does, but I'm guessing it's not working for a charity. Recognise that the work you do is something that gives back to society in a way that her job doesn't. You're contributing more to society than she is - should she feel guilty about that? Possibly. Your contributions to the relationship are equal but different - she's bringing in more money, you're actually helping people and giving back enough for the both of you.
posted by finding.perdita at 3:38 PM on August 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
Ok, step-by-step answers I think apply, although my ideas may be off the mark if you've just started dating or don't live together:
1. She will, in the near future, be able to do things for you financially that you cannot return in kind. Men are seen, traditionally, as providers, at least in the strict "me hunter, you gatherer" sense. While times have changed, this traditional gender-role view can be used to skew people's surface expectations and judgments of your relationship dynamic. (This can be especially difficult if one or both of your families shares this purview.)
Put more simply: You might be worried about being "that person" in this relationship (either she pays for some things that are outside your current salary's budget, or you guys don't have/do them at all) because you don't want to feel like a burden or for her to resent you for always covering that stuff.
2. If your girlfriend were to be laid off or fired, you might worry that you could not support two people on your salary alone and she would have difficulty finding another job or one that paid as well. EVERY couple worries about this, it doesn't matter who makes what. People worry about money, period, because it's a form of security.
Addendum: If you love each other and she loses her job and stays unemployed for awhile, she's not going to dump you and start leeching off some rich stranger instead. I really hope this isn't something you worry about, but it's a crappy stereotype the media enjoys using for a cheap plotline, primarily in tabloids.
3. Couples who eventually marry and have children have to ask themselves if the mother will return to work or stay home after the baby/babies are born. Exhibit A: Daycare is expensive. Exhibit B: Some jobs provide paid maternity leave, but not paternity leave. Exhibit C: Many families become one-income families by choice after a child is born for various reasons, including health insurance, lack of family support and/or commuting issues.
These are all long-term valid reasons that might subconsciously make you worry; however, you're not there yet. Everybody worries about stuff that isn't logical and that they can't change; sometimes knowing WHY you're bothered is enough to direct your attention elsewhere and help you avoid potential future arguments when you're further down the relationship road.
If I were you and anybody ever gave me shit about this money thing, I'd offer to trade copies of my paychecks for copies of their sex tapes to shut them up.
Income is just as private as anything else -- judgmental people will always find a reason to pick you apart; money's just an easy excuse.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 4:08 PM on August 26, 2010
1. She will, in the near future, be able to do things for you financially that you cannot return in kind. Men are seen, traditionally, as providers, at least in the strict "me hunter, you gatherer" sense. While times have changed, this traditional gender-role view can be used to skew people's surface expectations and judgments of your relationship dynamic. (This can be especially difficult if one or both of your families shares this purview.)
Put more simply: You might be worried about being "that person" in this relationship (either she pays for some things that are outside your current salary's budget, or you guys don't have/do them at all) because you don't want to feel like a burden or for her to resent you for always covering that stuff.
2. If your girlfriend were to be laid off or fired, you might worry that you could not support two people on your salary alone and she would have difficulty finding another job or one that paid as well. EVERY couple worries about this, it doesn't matter who makes what. People worry about money, period, because it's a form of security.
Addendum: If you love each other and she loses her job and stays unemployed for awhile, she's not going to dump you and start leeching off some rich stranger instead. I really hope this isn't something you worry about, but it's a crappy stereotype the media enjoys using for a cheap plotline, primarily in tabloids.
3. Couples who eventually marry and have children have to ask themselves if the mother will return to work or stay home after the baby/babies are born. Exhibit A: Daycare is expensive. Exhibit B: Some jobs provide paid maternity leave, but not paternity leave. Exhibit C: Many families become one-income families by choice after a child is born for various reasons, including health insurance, lack of family support and/or commuting issues.
These are all long-term valid reasons that might subconsciously make you worry; however, you're not there yet. Everybody worries about stuff that isn't logical and that they can't change; sometimes knowing WHY you're bothered is enough to direct your attention elsewhere and help you avoid potential future arguments when you're further down the relationship road.
If I were you and anybody ever gave me shit about this money thing, I'd offer to trade copies of my paychecks for copies of their sex tapes to shut them up.
Income is just as private as anything else -- judgmental people will always find a reason to pick you apart; money's just an easy excuse.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 4:08 PM on August 26, 2010
If you make around $30K USD in a western democracy you make more than 90% of the the people in the world. Makes me feel better.
posted by sockpup at 5:37 PM on August 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by sockpup at 5:37 PM on August 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
Maybe it has nothing to with money at all. Money is a go-between, an excuse at times.
Focus has a tendency to grow and spread. If you focus on the money, she may end up doing the same. If you change your focus towards what you fear losing and currently enjoy very much, you will grow and spread that.
If the economy didn't exist, what would you care so much about then?
posted by conciergehenry at 6:50 PM on August 26, 2010
Focus has a tendency to grow and spread. If you focus on the money, she may end up doing the same. If you change your focus towards what you fear losing and currently enjoy very much, you will grow and spread that.
If the economy didn't exist, what would you care so much about then?
posted by conciergehenry at 6:50 PM on August 26, 2010
1) Visit some other countries.
2) come to the Chinese country side
3) change paths now if it bothers you so much
posted by chinabound at 8:25 PM on August 26, 2010
2) come to the Chinese country side
3) change paths now if it bothers you so much
posted by chinabound at 8:25 PM on August 26, 2010
Do you like what you do? As in, is this something that you could see yourself doing for a long time and still loving it?
I had to make a hard choice when it came to deciding my career and I turned down a higher paying natural science path in order to become more fully invested in the social sciences (including social work). I have never been happier. I know that my choice means that I will never get that golden 6 figure salary with kick ass benefits, but I am happy because I get to do what I love.
You said that this is your first job, so maybe this is the first time that you get to do what you like, focus on the parts of your job that you love and the money won't seem as important.
posted by carnivoregiraffe at 10:43 PM on August 26, 2010
I had to make a hard choice when it came to deciding my career and I turned down a higher paying natural science path in order to become more fully invested in the social sciences (including social work). I have never been happier. I know that my choice means that I will never get that golden 6 figure salary with kick ass benefits, but I am happy because I get to do what I love.
You said that this is your first job, so maybe this is the first time that you get to do what you like, focus on the parts of your job that you love and the money won't seem as important.
posted by carnivoregiraffe at 10:43 PM on August 26, 2010
Once out of school, its going to take a while for you to adjust and accept what you make, as with so many other things when you make that transition. If it really bugs you, one thing you could start with is consciously try harder not to know what others (real people you know) are making. Not sure how close you are with your girlfriend, but if you aren't living together or on the road to marriage, its ok to not know what you both make.
If he ever came to me and told me he was insecure about the fact that I made more money than him, I would be personally offended. I worked hard to get and keep my job, and I intend to continue working hard at it going forward, and I certainly wouldn't want to be in a relationship with someone who resented that or who thought it wasn't my place as a woman to do so.
Do note that insecurity doesn't have to lead to resentment.
Many people who make more than their friends or loved ones are under the delusion that its because of their "hard work", which surely counts but there is more to it. Often it's the field you are in. People who don't make that much may work twice/thrice as hard as you do- salary is not an indicator of hard work. And that assertion is sure to offend people you know who make less than you do.
OP, at the end of the day when this bothers you, you have to go back to the time when you decided to be in this field and recall your reasons for doing so. That's your value system. If your values haven't changed, you just need to gently remind yourself now and then, when things like this come up with friends and lovers.
posted by xm at 6:00 AM on August 27, 2010
If he ever came to me and told me he was insecure about the fact that I made more money than him, I would be personally offended. I worked hard to get and keep my job, and I intend to continue working hard at it going forward, and I certainly wouldn't want to be in a relationship with someone who resented that or who thought it wasn't my place as a woman to do so.
Do note that insecurity doesn't have to lead to resentment.
Many people who make more than their friends or loved ones are under the delusion that its because of their "hard work", which surely counts but there is more to it. Often it's the field you are in. People who don't make that much may work twice/thrice as hard as you do- salary is not an indicator of hard work. And that assertion is sure to offend people you know who make less than you do.
OP, at the end of the day when this bothers you, you have to go back to the time when you decided to be in this field and recall your reasons for doing so. That's your value system. If your values haven't changed, you just need to gently remind yourself now and then, when things like this come up with friends and lovers.
posted by xm at 6:00 AM on August 27, 2010
May I gently suggest that much of the hullaballo might be here because you don't want to thing about something else.
Is there something else going on in your life, like maybe, I don't know, your first real job ever?
Spend some time focussing on those anxieties when you start thinking about making less.
Also start calling yourself a boy toy to everyone around.
posted by Ironmouth at 12:52 PM on August 27, 2010
Is there something else going on in your life, like maybe, I don't know, your first real job ever?
Spend some time focussing on those anxieties when you start thinking about making less.
Also start calling yourself a boy toy to everyone around.
posted by Ironmouth at 12:52 PM on August 27, 2010
You've got a couple of things going on: You're worried about the income difference, plus you're worried about the fact that you're worried. That really can make a simple concern into something very daunting.
I suggest you watch and see how things go once she's in that job. And then, pay attention to the particular situations that bother you, because thinking in general terms about the income difference isn't going to solve anything. Please don't try to anticipate or predict what might bug you. And when real life strikes, don't bundle the money concerns as one issue: address them one at a time.
When you want to change how you do or think about things, there's a natural tendency to put yourself down and dwell on discouraging thoughts. You can consciously choose ask, How can I make this better? You can't prevent the initial anxiety, but you can change the subject in your mind. How can I handle it? What could I do next time? Is there another way of looking at it? What would I say to a friend in a similar situation?
Maybe day-to-day life won't present as much income-related anxiety as you now think it might. But when things do come up, you want to deal with each particular instance. There will be birthday and holiday gifts, the cost of going out, sharing rent if you live together, and other practical matters. And also some trickier stuff, like how you feel about her car vs. yours, and how you think others see you.
Also, keep in mind that she's going to be adjusting to her own higher income, and it'll take a while till she gets used to it herself.
posted by wryly at 2:24 PM on August 27, 2010
I suggest you watch and see how things go once she's in that job. And then, pay attention to the particular situations that bother you, because thinking in general terms about the income difference isn't going to solve anything. Please don't try to anticipate or predict what might bug you. And when real life strikes, don't bundle the money concerns as one issue: address them one at a time.
When you want to change how you do or think about things, there's a natural tendency to put yourself down and dwell on discouraging thoughts. You can consciously choose ask, How can I make this better? You can't prevent the initial anxiety, but you can change the subject in your mind. How can I handle it? What could I do next time? Is there another way of looking at it? What would I say to a friend in a similar situation?
Maybe day-to-day life won't present as much income-related anxiety as you now think it might. But when things do come up, you want to deal with each particular instance. There will be birthday and holiday gifts, the cost of going out, sharing rent if you live together, and other practical matters. And also some trickier stuff, like how you feel about her car vs. yours, and how you think others see you.
Also, keep in mind that she's going to be adjusting to her own higher income, and it'll take a while till she gets used to it herself.
posted by wryly at 2:24 PM on August 27, 2010
Respecting and being proud of my husband's chosen profession significantly buffers the fact that it will never be a high-paying one. I think your career falls into that category, too. The amount of money that comes with a job is not the only measure of the good you are doing in the world. Don't underestimate how much many of us admire your field.
posted by Knowyournuts at 11:01 AM on August 30, 2010
posted by Knowyournuts at 11:01 AM on August 30, 2010
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posted by plungerjoke at 12:23 PM on August 26, 2010