Complaining about complainers.
August 18, 2010 8:07 AM Subscribe
How to handle complaining by people in conversations? I get annoyed by complaining; often it makes me not like the people who complain, and even if I do-- I get standoffish.
It's hard for me to complain. I (believe) have a great life and consider myself lucky. When bad things happen, I remember all the good and the think of the positive aspects of the bad event.
But I know not everyone thinks that way or at least portrays that they think that way. Sometimes I feel that I'm trying to impose my world-view on others when they're simply trying to vent. I want to be able to handle it better--and like the people who might be negative at that time. Typically I just end up avoiding the negativity.
It's hard for me to complain. I (believe) have a great life and consider myself lucky. When bad things happen, I remember all the good and the think of the positive aspects of the bad event.
But I know not everyone thinks that way or at least portrays that they think that way. Sometimes I feel that I'm trying to impose my world-view on others when they're simply trying to vent. I want to be able to handle it better--and like the people who might be negative at that time. Typically I just end up avoiding the negativity.
Best answer: Quick shot in the dark:
Perhaps your underlying thought process when you get annoyed is: "Where does he get the right to complain?? I have my problems and do you see me yammering on? Does he think he's the only one with problems?"
i.E. you would perhaps like to blow off steam more often yourself, like this guy does, but for whatever reason you deny yourself this pleasure / weakness / imposition on other people's attention.
This makes you uncharitable of his behaviour because you feel you don't get to complain (have the choice to complain), while this guy apparently just grabs the right!
If that's the case, well, be aware that you do have the choice to behave just as this person does. And you wisely do not choose to do so, because frankly, complainers are terrible. A lot of people don't like them, including you and me. It sets them off on an unpleasant trajectory through conversations and does them no favours in life.
A different way of seeing things is that, as you say, your world view is not this guy's world view. Specifically, your coping mechanisms are different. This guy has found a coping mechanism for his troubles just like you have, only his is more annoying. But in the end, it does the same thing for him: yammering on lets him take on his troubles more easily. So if you are listening to this guy, analysing his behaviour as an abstract coping mechanism that he is not even aware of might help.
posted by Omnomnom at 8:19 AM on August 18, 2010 [2 favorites]
Perhaps your underlying thought process when you get annoyed is: "Where does he get the right to complain?? I have my problems and do you see me yammering on? Does he think he's the only one with problems?"
i.E. you would perhaps like to blow off steam more often yourself, like this guy does, but for whatever reason you deny yourself this pleasure / weakness / imposition on other people's attention.
This makes you uncharitable of his behaviour because you feel you don't get to complain (have the choice to complain), while this guy apparently just grabs the right!
If that's the case, well, be aware that you do have the choice to behave just as this person does. And you wisely do not choose to do so, because frankly, complainers are terrible. A lot of people don't like them, including you and me. It sets them off on an unpleasant trajectory through conversations and does them no favours in life.
A different way of seeing things is that, as you say, your world view is not this guy's world view. Specifically, your coping mechanisms are different. This guy has found a coping mechanism for his troubles just like you have, only his is more annoying. But in the end, it does the same thing for him: yammering on lets him take on his troubles more easily. So if you are listening to this guy, analysing his behaviour as an abstract coping mechanism that he is not even aware of might help.
posted by Omnomnom at 8:19 AM on August 18, 2010 [2 favorites]
I am a bit of a "fixer" personality, and it took me quite a while to realize that most people don't want solutions as much as a little sympathy. So I say "Gosh, that sucks" or "Geeze, people!" or something.* Usually the conversation moves on. If this really bothers you, that is all the contact you need -- you can leave or shift to some other task or something else. I think of it as a form of politeness.
*while maintaining honesty -- some complaints need to be met with "Well, what were you expecting?" but that's a different AskMe post.
posted by GenjiandProust at 8:21 AM on August 18, 2010
*while maintaining honesty -- some complaints need to be met with "Well, what were you expecting?" but that's a different AskMe post.
posted by GenjiandProust at 8:21 AM on August 18, 2010
Best answer: Agreeing that there's a difference between a friend who's having a difficult time and a friend who frames their entire worldview through negativity.
I used to spend a great deal of time with a group of the latter types -- they distrusted all intentions, complained about all perceived slights, gossiped about the failings of acquaintances and belittled the interests of others who had different tastes than them. They were funny, interesting, fun people but they were also so saturated with negativity that it was starting to affect my own outlook on the world.
Those people are best avoided, honestly. There's nothing you can do to alter their behavior significantly and it'll continue to wear on you as long as you're around it All you can do, really, is minimize your exposure and resist being dragged down with them.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 8:22 AM on August 18, 2010 [9 favorites]
I used to spend a great deal of time with a group of the latter types -- they distrusted all intentions, complained about all perceived slights, gossiped about the failings of acquaintances and belittled the interests of others who had different tastes than them. They were funny, interesting, fun people but they were also so saturated with negativity that it was starting to affect my own outlook on the world.
Those people are best avoided, honestly. There's nothing you can do to alter their behavior significantly and it'll continue to wear on you as long as you're around it All you can do, really, is minimize your exposure and resist being dragged down with them.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 8:22 AM on August 18, 2010 [9 favorites]
Oh, and, do not make that most grievous mistake: Do not try to offer solutions.
I don't know if you know this book: Games People Play. It's pretty awesome and gives you some insight about the ways people manipulate each other. Paraphrasing: One of the "games" listed is called "Yes, but". Person A complains about his troubles all the time. Person B tries to solve them. Every time, Person A tells him "yes, but..." and explains why his solution is not possible. The longer this takes, the more frazzled B becomes and the more delighted A. He is deriving energy, attention and other good stuff through this game. The game ends when B has no more solutions and slinks off, exhausted.
Don't play the game. The easiest way not to is to say "oh, that sounds terrible", or even "poor you" and leave it at that - possibly switch topic. Do not ask questions or go into details.
posted by Omnomnom at 8:24 AM on August 18, 2010 [4 favorites]
I don't know if you know this book: Games People Play. It's pretty awesome and gives you some insight about the ways people manipulate each other. Paraphrasing: One of the "games" listed is called "Yes, but". Person A complains about his troubles all the time. Person B tries to solve them. Every time, Person A tells him "yes, but..." and explains why his solution is not possible. The longer this takes, the more frazzled B becomes and the more delighted A. He is deriving energy, attention and other good stuff through this game. The game ends when B has no more solutions and slinks off, exhausted.
Don't play the game. The easiest way not to is to say "oh, that sounds terrible", or even "poor you" and leave it at that - possibly switch topic. Do not ask questions or go into details.
posted by Omnomnom at 8:24 AM on August 18, 2010 [4 favorites]
Complaints are often boring because people who complain about things often make the same complaints repeatedly and in far greater detail than anything in which you might reasonably be interested. The sense of self-pity with which these complaints are delivered is also frequently annoying. People expect massive sympathy for their horrible problems when they have, in many cases, made no effort to solve those problems, and when in any event their problems are not nearly as terrible as they think, and many people have much worse problems and don't complain about them. But my complaints about people who complain are themselves a perfect example of what I am talking about. I could become very boring by complaining at length about other people who complain too much.
Sometimes you just have to tell repetitious people that you have heard this complaint before and do not want to hear it again. There is not too much one can say to the obsessive self-pitying people who are often pathological narcissists who are immune to any kind of rational response, but the short form is "my heart bleeds for you". Some people are just annoying and should be avoided.
But let us not over-generalize either. Sometimes people have valid and even interesting complaints to make that you haven't heard before. Complaining can be a valid component of a normal conversation. So, judge all complaints on their own merits or lack of merits.
posted by grizzled at 8:26 AM on August 18, 2010 [2 favorites]
Sometimes you just have to tell repetitious people that you have heard this complaint before and do not want to hear it again. There is not too much one can say to the obsessive self-pitying people who are often pathological narcissists who are immune to any kind of rational response, but the short form is "my heart bleeds for you". Some people are just annoying and should be avoided.
But let us not over-generalize either. Sometimes people have valid and even interesting complaints to make that you haven't heard before. Complaining can be a valid component of a normal conversation. So, judge all complaints on their own merits or lack of merits.
posted by grizzled at 8:26 AM on August 18, 2010 [2 favorites]
YMMV on this, particularly because there are people who are genuinely pessimistic all the time and especially if they're not taking efforts to address their own complaints, can be drags to be around. Still, I think some of what I'm about to say holds true for a certain proportion of 'negative' people.
One thing I learned about a friend whom I'd always thought of as very negative and critical in person is that he simply voices his positive and negative opinions more or less equally. He was a transplant to the area from a large city on the East Coast,* and had no idea that people here--and even more so in the rural north, which is where I'm from--voicing a critical or contrary opinion as often as he did implies a level of perpetual anger/bitterness/negativity that would be more accurately expressed as:
'I HATE EVERYTHING HERE RIGHT NOW. NOTHING IS GOOD EVER. I HATE THIS ENTIRE SITUATION. AND I HATE YOU AND YOUR ASS FACE.'
Once I realized that the level of actual negativity he felt was not in line with our regional expectations, I was able to cut him more slack. He complains and moves on, and often forgets that he had anything less-than-positive to note about a past situation.
*I'm not saying people on the East Coast are more negative: I'm saying that there are a lot of cheerful-sounding people around the Great Lakes who are not actually all that cheerful.
posted by Uniformitarianism Now! at 8:29 AM on August 18, 2010 [2 favorites]
One thing I learned about a friend whom I'd always thought of as very negative and critical in person is that he simply voices his positive and negative opinions more or less equally. He was a transplant to the area from a large city on the East Coast,* and had no idea that people here--and even more so in the rural north, which is where I'm from--voicing a critical or contrary opinion as often as he did implies a level of perpetual anger/bitterness/negativity that would be more accurately expressed as:
'I HATE EVERYTHING HERE RIGHT NOW. NOTHING IS GOOD EVER. I HATE THIS ENTIRE SITUATION. AND I HATE YOU AND YOUR ASS FACE.'
Once I realized that the level of actual negativity he felt was not in line with our regional expectations, I was able to cut him more slack. He complains and moves on, and often forgets that he had anything less-than-positive to note about a past situation.
*I'm not saying people on the East Coast are more negative: I'm saying that there are a lot of cheerful-sounding people around the Great Lakes who are not actually all that cheerful.
posted by Uniformitarianism Now! at 8:29 AM on August 18, 2010 [2 favorites]
"they can be drags to be around."
"had no idea that to people here"
posted by Uniformitarianism Now! at 8:31 AM on August 18, 2010
"had no idea that to people here"
posted by Uniformitarianism Now! at 8:31 AM on August 18, 2010
One last thing and then I swear I'll shut up. Uniformitarianism reminded me of it.
I have a close friend. Her mother is a complainer, her father has a terrible temper. She grew up in a geographical place where complaining was a way of life, of bonding with people over shared annoyances and problems.
Then, she moved to England.
Within weeks she got problems at her first job for her "negative attitude". Apparently, English people do bond over complaints, but they do so with a sigh and a "what can you do" shrug. Not like my friend, she of the explosive temprament!
Anyway, she learnt. She got more relaxed. But there's always the difference in upbringing to consider.
posted by Omnomnom at 8:36 AM on August 18, 2010
I have a close friend. Her mother is a complainer, her father has a terrible temper. She grew up in a geographical place where complaining was a way of life, of bonding with people over shared annoyances and problems.
Then, she moved to England.
Within weeks she got problems at her first job for her "negative attitude". Apparently, English people do bond over complaints, but they do so with a sigh and a "what can you do" shrug. Not like my friend, she of the explosive temprament!
Anyway, she learnt. She got more relaxed. But there's always the difference in upbringing to consider.
posted by Omnomnom at 8:36 AM on August 18, 2010
I am a bit of a "fixer" personality, and it took me quite a while to realize that most people don't want solutions as much as a little sympathy.
Also, without being sexist, the "fixer" style of talking about problems seems to be more common in men and the "commiseration" style is more common with women. Deborah Tannen's work has involved this a lot and as a fixer-type person her research really helped me understand how other people approach those kinds of conversations.
So yes, a lot of people who discuss problems with you really want to share those emotions with you as a form of emotional support for themselves, rather than because they want your help or because they think it's an entertaining topic to talk about. As others have said, some people take this too far and are exhausting to be around because they constantly focus on negativity.
posted by burnmp3s at 8:36 AM on August 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
Also, without being sexist, the "fixer" style of talking about problems seems to be more common in men and the "commiseration" style is more common with women. Deborah Tannen's work has involved this a lot and as a fixer-type person her research really helped me understand how other people approach those kinds of conversations.
So yes, a lot of people who discuss problems with you really want to share those emotions with you as a form of emotional support for themselves, rather than because they want your help or because they think it's an entertaining topic to talk about. As others have said, some people take this too far and are exhausting to be around because they constantly focus on negativity.
posted by burnmp3s at 8:36 AM on August 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: You do realize this is exactly what you're doing, right?
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 8:37 AM on August 18, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 8:37 AM on August 18, 2010 [2 favorites]
Ah, just saw the title. So, my solution...
[sigh]
[shrug]
"Yep."
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 8:39 AM on August 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
[sigh]
[shrug]
"Yep."
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 8:39 AM on August 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
Narrative Priorities has it right--sometimes you just have to avoid the buzz killers.
posted by MrMoonPie at 8:47 AM on August 18, 2010
posted by MrMoonPie at 8:47 AM on August 18, 2010
I was going to say something along the lines of what Omnomnom and Uniformitarianism Now! are talking about. There's a big difference between people who always see things in the most negative light, and people who just kvetch as a form of bonding or a way to make conversation.
I kvetch. You'd probably find me terribly annoying. When I walk into work, I'll either say "Ugh, it's so hot out," or "Waah, it's so cold out," or "Oh, it's so beautiful out, I wish I didn't have to work." But I'm not a pessimistic person and I don't think of myself as a real complainer at all. If I walked into work and said, "Isn't it a great day! Everything's great!" I would feel like an asshole. If someone else said that, I'd think they were an asshole. There's something braggy and vaguely suspect about being so cheerful. And I think the fact that I think that is mostly geographical and cultural.
So I would try to evaluate, with all your complaining people, are they truly negative, do they whine about a bad situation forever without trying to do something to change it? That's really draining and I wouldn't want to hang out with people like that either. Or are they just making small talk in the way they're used to people making small talk? One hint - if they can be funny about, or laugh at, their complaint, it's probably the latter.
posted by DestinationUnknown at 9:01 AM on August 18, 2010 [4 favorites]
I kvetch. You'd probably find me terribly annoying. When I walk into work, I'll either say "Ugh, it's so hot out," or "Waah, it's so cold out," or "Oh, it's so beautiful out, I wish I didn't have to work." But I'm not a pessimistic person and I don't think of myself as a real complainer at all. If I walked into work and said, "Isn't it a great day! Everything's great!" I would feel like an asshole. If someone else said that, I'd think they were an asshole. There's something braggy and vaguely suspect about being so cheerful. And I think the fact that I think that is mostly geographical and cultural.
So I would try to evaluate, with all your complaining people, are they truly negative, do they whine about a bad situation forever without trying to do something to change it? That's really draining and I wouldn't want to hang out with people like that either. Or are they just making small talk in the way they're used to people making small talk? One hint - if they can be funny about, or laugh at, their complaint, it's probably the latter.
posted by DestinationUnknown at 9:01 AM on August 18, 2010 [4 favorites]
You might try reading some studies on optimism and pessimism to understand the differing perspectives. Some folks get annoyed by perpetual sunshine types. A person could be on either side and annoy the other if you take my meaning.
I use allegory on people who complain to the point that I'm starting to dislike them.
The first is the pedestrian/driver metaphor. Depending on which side you are, your perspective will change.
It's a subtle way of telling them they bitch too much; more direct suggestions for later.
posted by effluvia at 9:14 AM on August 18, 2010
I use allegory on people who complain to the point that I'm starting to dislike them.
The first is the pedestrian/driver metaphor. Depending on which side you are, your perspective will change.
It's a subtle way of telling them they bitch too much; more direct suggestions for later.
posted by effluvia at 9:14 AM on August 18, 2010
Another complainer here, and I'm annoyed by people who are always cheerful and chipper. It comes across as very fake to me (I'm also from the Northeast, btw.) But I don't complain constantly about the same things, and I usually try to be humorous about it.
That said, you have the right to avoid people you don't like. Tolerate us complainy types when you have to (and we'll tolerate you :)), and when you don't--don't! We'd like to be left alone to bitch in peace!!
posted by cottonswab at 9:53 AM on August 18, 2010
That said, you have the right to avoid people you don't like. Tolerate us complainy types when you have to (and we'll tolerate you :)), and when you don't--don't! We'd like to be left alone to bitch in peace!!
posted by cottonswab at 9:53 AM on August 18, 2010
I understand where you're coming from, I'm not a huge fan of lots of negativity either. The real trick here is changing the way you react to the negativity. The reason why it's annoying is because their negativity is affecting how you feel. If you focus on making sure that other people can't bring you down because their issues are not your issues, being in those types of situations is easier.
One way to do this that works for me is consciously try to view the negative people with compassion. So your friend is having a rough time and is listing all the reasons why things are hard and in your mind you know that things would be easier on your friend if they weren't so focused on why things are so terrible. As others have said, if you start telling them about how if they would just be positive things would get better doesn't really go very far with people who are feeling negative. What you can do instead is sympathize "That situation sucks, I really hope things get better for you" or whatever, and wish them well by visualizing a positive resolution to whatever they are going through. That way you can feel positively constructive without being pushy about your world-view.
In the end, their problems are not really your problems and you don't have to feel like shit just because they do. Even if you are a part of the situation, you do not have to feel negatively about it and learning to own your own emotional reactions will make being positive easier.
My exception to what I've said above are people who are committed to being negative about everything. You and those type of people probably don't have a lot in common anyway and being in a relationship with them would ultimately just be draining. AVOID.
posted by Kimberly at 10:22 AM on August 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
One way to do this that works for me is consciously try to view the negative people with compassion. So your friend is having a rough time and is listing all the reasons why things are hard and in your mind you know that things would be easier on your friend if they weren't so focused on why things are so terrible. As others have said, if you start telling them about how if they would just be positive things would get better doesn't really go very far with people who are feeling negative. What you can do instead is sympathize "That situation sucks, I really hope things get better for you" or whatever, and wish them well by visualizing a positive resolution to whatever they are going through. That way you can feel positively constructive without being pushy about your world-view.
In the end, their problems are not really your problems and you don't have to feel like shit just because they do. Even if you are a part of the situation, you do not have to feel negatively about it and learning to own your own emotional reactions will make being positive easier.
My exception to what I've said above are people who are committed to being negative about everything. You and those type of people probably don't have a lot in common anyway and being in a relationship with them would ultimately just be draining. AVOID.
posted by Kimberly at 10:22 AM on August 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
I think there's a difference between kvetching as an art form and complaining as the sole means of conversation. I enjoy a good rant or bitch session, but people who engage me just to drone on about how awful everything is tire me. I'm not naturally optimistic, but I've trained myself to look on the sunnier side.
I'm female and a problem solver, and I've given up trying to help people who don't specifically ask for my assistance or involvement.
So, if a friend or colleague starts in, I ask right up front if they want help or do they just want to unload. Some people seem surprised, but quite a few will admit that they just want to complain. Ground rules established, I'll listen, but that's the quota for that particular subject. If the person brings it up again, I'll point out (in a nice way) that they're rehearsing the grievance. A close friend gets the "picking the scab" line.
To me, a lot of complainers just want to talk, but they don't have much to chat about, so they go for what they know best.
posted by Ideefixe at 11:20 AM on August 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'm female and a problem solver, and I've given up trying to help people who don't specifically ask for my assistance or involvement.
So, if a friend or colleague starts in, I ask right up front if they want help or do they just want to unload. Some people seem surprised, but quite a few will admit that they just want to complain. Ground rules established, I'll listen, but that's the quota for that particular subject. If the person brings it up again, I'll point out (in a nice way) that they're rehearsing the grievance. A close friend gets the "picking the scab" line.
To me, a lot of complainers just want to talk, but they don't have much to chat about, so they go for what they know best.
posted by Ideefixe at 11:20 AM on August 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
What's your goal? People complain. I complain. a lot, though I try to complain about real issues, and not continue complaining about things that I know can't be fixed. Want to make friends? Listen. Maybe the person complaining about his kids just needs a sympathetic listener and will go home more relaxed. Maybe the person complaining about life in general is bored senseless; try bringing up a new topic.
If you want to train people to complain less, to you, spend as little time with them while they complain, as possible. Be a positive person, and other positive people will hang out with you.
posted by theora55 at 12:56 PM on August 18, 2010
If you want to train people to complain less, to you, spend as little time with them while they complain, as possible. Be a positive person, and other positive people will hang out with you.
posted by theora55 at 12:56 PM on August 18, 2010
Best answer: Sympathize. This has been my greatest tool in dealing with complainers. Most complainers are just unhappy or unsatisfied and want to be understood. "This sandwich is too dry" can be met with "yeah it looks terrible and crusty". "I'll end up alone" can be met with "yeah there's no good people left out there anymore". You'll find that some simple sympathizing can calm the complaints. I use this in my job as a server, and also with my neurotic mother, and it works wonders.
posted by whalebreath at 12:00 AM on August 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by whalebreath at 12:00 AM on August 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
Other person: "Damn, my iphone takes too long to load google maps!"
You: "Yes, I heard that was the number one complaint in Chad this year."
I stole this tactic from my roommate, and it works pretty well.
posted by Ragged Richard at 8:29 AM on August 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
You: "Yes, I heard that was the number one complaint in Chad this year."
I stole this tactic from my roommate, and it works pretty well.
posted by Ragged Richard at 8:29 AM on August 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by griphus at 8:15 AM on August 18, 2010 [1 favorite]