Can I order a long espresso at an American Starbucks?
August 4, 2010 10:07 PM Subscribe
Why can Starbucks in Canada pull a long shot, while Starbucks in America cannot?
It baffles me: Whenever I've been to a Starbucks in the USA and order a long espresso/americano, I'm either told by the barista that they don't know what that is or their machine won't do it. Whereas in Canada it's no problem. As a former Starbucks employee (from 1998-2001) in Canada I find it difficult to believe that their training has become so lax that they don't know what a long shot is (plus the Starbucks website specifically mentions it). Are there really different espresso machines in the US vs Canada? Should I be ordering a long espresso under a different name?
Also important to note that I've had this happen at Starbucks #1, where I'm assuming they should know something about espresso.
It baffles me: Whenever I've been to a Starbucks in the USA and order a long espresso/americano, I'm either told by the barista that they don't know what that is or their machine won't do it. Whereas in Canada it's no problem. As a former Starbucks employee (from 1998-2001) in Canada I find it difficult to believe that their training has become so lax that they don't know what a long shot is (plus the Starbucks website specifically mentions it). Are there really different espresso machines in the US vs Canada? Should I be ordering a long espresso under a different name?
Also important to note that I've had this happen at Starbucks #1, where I'm assuming they should know something about espresso.
This article makes it sound like Starbucks is pursuing all kinds of weird innovations in coffee machinery, and that's from a while back. Certainly the most high-profile case is that they bought Clover and won't be selling the machines to anyone but themselves, but it looks like they've also come up with their own espresso machines.
It seems quite likely to me that the machines really will not make a long shot, and that within a few years you won't be able to get one from Starbucks in Canada either.
posted by little light-giver at 10:23 PM on August 4, 2010
It seems quite likely to me that the machines really will not make a long shot, and that within a few years you won't be able to get one from Starbucks in Canada either.
posted by little light-giver at 10:23 PM on August 4, 2010
The upside of this is that your shots come out a lot faster, so for a high-volume store, they're ideal. But you can only make regular shots in them. No long shots, no cubanos, no anything but a regular ol' shot.
I've yet to come across a coffee shop — chain or otherwise — with a super-automatic machine incapable of pulling long shots. No Cubanos or ristrettos, of course, but this sounds like the exception rather than the rule.
I used to be a Bux employee in Canada, and I've definitely ordered a long espresso at a location in NYC at some point in the past couple years. Practically any corporately-owned Starbucks in either country would have Mastrenas (which were discussed in the article that little light-giver linked to) by now, and they're capable of pulling long shots, as were the Verissimos (sp?) that preceded them.
posted by thisjax at 10:26 PM on August 4, 2010
I've yet to come across a coffee shop — chain or otherwise — with a super-automatic machine incapable of pulling long shots. No Cubanos or ristrettos, of course, but this sounds like the exception rather than the rule.
I used to be a Bux employee in Canada, and I've definitely ordered a long espresso at a location in NYC at some point in the past couple years. Practically any corporately-owned Starbucks in either country would have Mastrenas (which were discussed in the article that little light-giver linked to) by now, and they're capable of pulling long shots, as were the Verissimos (sp?) that preceded them.
posted by thisjax at 10:26 PM on August 4, 2010
Yep liz has it, Starbucks machines are push button. I don't drink coffee myself but my husband says technically they can push the button twice and remove the shot half way through the second push and you'd get a long pull. Tully's is the same way and Peets has a switch they can turn on and off.
posted by ljesse at 10:26 PM on August 4, 2010
posted by ljesse at 10:26 PM on August 4, 2010
I don't drink coffee much and have never been to a Starbucks, but I occasionally read this site for shits and giggles. It may have an answer.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:46 PM on August 4, 2010
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:46 PM on August 4, 2010
The other thing I wanted to point out was that at least as recently as 2008, which is around the time that Mastrenas started showing up in major markets in Canada, knowing what a long shot was was still a part of barista training.
Again, I'm going to point out that many/most Starbucks locations on both sides of the border have new push button machines with a hack-free "long" button.
posted by thisjax at 10:47 PM on August 4, 2010
Again, I'm going to point out that many/most Starbucks locations on both sides of the border have new push button machines with a hack-free "long" button.
posted by thisjax at 10:47 PM on August 4, 2010
I have no answer to your question, but a brief Google showed me that American Starbucks not being able to make long espressos whereas Canadian ones could has been mentioned by several people. I don't work there, so I don't know what the problem is, but I would think it highly likely that the US might have different machines in some locations. According to one release I found, 75% of the American stores were supposed to have the Mastrenos by 2010, so maybe the places you frequent don't have them yet?
That link on the Starbucks site you posted only has the description of what a lungo is in a blurb. I couldn't find it anywhere as a menu item or an item they sell, so that might not be definitive proof that they actually train people on how to make them or anything.
posted by wending my way at 11:15 PM on August 4, 2010
That link on the Starbucks site you posted only has the description of what a lungo is in a blurb. I couldn't find it anywhere as a menu item or an item they sell, so that might not be definitive proof that they actually train people on how to make them or anything.
posted by wending my way at 11:15 PM on August 4, 2010
That link on the Starbucks site you posted only has the description of what a lungo is in a blurb. I couldn't find it anywhere as a menu item or an item they sell, so that might not be definitive proof that they actually train people on how to make them or anything.
I've never seen it on a menu in Canada either, but Starbucks offers a variety of drinks/options that aren't on the menu but that get covered in training. The best example would be peppermint mochas, which are usually only on Holiday menus but are ordered year round in many places. Espresso con pannas often aren't on the menu, but they're covered in training as well. Same goes for short (8oz) hot drinks, which are still available in most markets, but don't show up on the menus.
posted by thisjax at 11:55 PM on August 4, 2010
I've never seen it on a menu in Canada either, but Starbucks offers a variety of drinks/options that aren't on the menu but that get covered in training. The best example would be peppermint mochas, which are usually only on Holiday menus but are ordered year round in many places. Espresso con pannas often aren't on the menu, but they're covered in training as well. Same goes for short (8oz) hot drinks, which are still available in most markets, but don't show up on the menus.
posted by thisjax at 11:55 PM on August 4, 2010
I worked at Starbucks several years ago. While training in how to do more than just be part of a popular drinks assembly HAS gone to shit, there are still (or were, I should say) opportunities for individuals who care to learn more. I was by far the most educated (in the ways of coffee) barista there, and not once did I ever hear long shots mentioned (by a customer, by another barista, during the many training opportunities I took, etc).
I'm almost certain that without recalibration the machines that most of the stores in my district used were incapable of deviating from the stardard timing. If a customer had really wanted one, I probably could have done so, but I really doubt anyone else at my store could have (I dont think anyone else even knew how to calibrate the machines). So while it's far from an unreasonable request at most smaller coffee places that use cheaper, more manual machines, I suspect that you'll have a hard time finding a Starbucks that can do this. Well, unless they are still using one of out pre-automatic machines. Aaaaaaand you somehow find a barista who even knows what you're talking about, which might be even rarer than the machines now.
posted by Stunt at 12:22 AM on August 5, 2010
I'm almost certain that without recalibration the machines that most of the stores in my district used were incapable of deviating from the stardard timing. If a customer had really wanted one, I probably could have done so, but I really doubt anyone else at my store could have (I dont think anyone else even knew how to calibrate the machines). So while it's far from an unreasonable request at most smaller coffee places that use cheaper, more manual machines, I suspect that you'll have a hard time finding a Starbucks that can do this. Well, unless they are still using one of out pre-automatic machines. Aaaaaaand you somehow find a barista who even knows what you're talking about, which might be even rarer than the machines now.
posted by Stunt at 12:22 AM on August 5, 2010
I've never seen it on a menu in Canada either, but Starbucks offers a variety of drinks/options that aren't on the menu but that get covered in training.
Which begs this question:
is it possible that the American Sbux employee in question just told you "oh, we don't do that here", either because they'd forgotten their training or just didn't feel like figuring it out?
It's something I remember doing occasionally when I was a surly college jerk in a service job, before I understood the value of a job well done.
posted by Sara C. at 5:14 AM on August 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
Which begs this question:
is it possible that the American Sbux employee in question just told you "oh, we don't do that here", either because they'd forgotten their training or just didn't feel like figuring it out?
It's something I remember doing occasionally when I was a surly college jerk in a service job, before I understood the value of a job well done.
posted by Sara C. at 5:14 AM on August 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
I used to work at a large chain coffee shop, Caribou Coffee, and our espresso machine wasn't as super-automatic as the one mentioned above, but we didn't have control over the amount of water per shot. The best we could have done would be to run the same grounds a second time, which may approximate a long shot, but maybe not very well.
posted by Tooty McTootsalot at 7:08 AM on August 5, 2010
posted by Tooty McTootsalot at 7:08 AM on August 5, 2010
And, forgot to add, I'm American. Although we were well trained, we weren't taught anything about a long shot, nor did I ever have a customer ask for one. I don't think it's lax training, I think it's a real cultural difference.
posted by Tooty McTootsalot at 7:11 AM on August 5, 2010
posted by Tooty McTootsalot at 7:11 AM on August 5, 2010
What's the difference between an Americano and a long?
posted by jalexei at 9:05 AM on August 5, 2010
posted by jalexei at 9:05 AM on August 5, 2010
To second Stunt and showbiz_liz, I worked at Starbucks (inside B&N, but same machines) from 2006-2009, and the machines could not pull a long shot. I learned what it was, and could (can) do it by hand with a regular machine, but not the Bux. You push a button, get a shot. That said, we didn't have a Clover at my store.
posted by quadrilaterals at 9:33 AM on August 5, 2010
posted by quadrilaterals at 9:33 AM on August 5, 2010
My mother-in-law (in Montreal) always orders her espresso "allongé". Maybe Starbucks Canada offers the option to appease the French?
posted by bonobothegreat at 10:03 AM on August 5, 2010
posted by bonobothegreat at 10:03 AM on August 5, 2010
Slightly OT:
Wouldn't a long shot be bitter as all hell from over-extraction?
Where's the advantage to that over a regular pull + water?
posted by leotrotsky at 10:06 AM on August 5, 2010
Wouldn't a long shot be bitter as all hell from over-extraction?
Where's the advantage to that over a regular pull + water?
posted by leotrotsky at 10:06 AM on August 5, 2010
What's the difference between an Americano and a long?
An Americano is adding water to a shot of espresso. In a long espresso (lungo), all of the water passes through the grounds: Relevant section of the original link This changes the flavor slightly.
posted by jdwhite at 10:12 AM on August 5, 2010
An Americano is adding water to a shot of espresso. In a long espresso (lungo), all of the water passes through the grounds: Relevant section of the original link This changes the flavor slightly.
posted by jdwhite at 10:12 AM on August 5, 2010
Caveat: I work for the 'Bux, and just got off an insane 10 hour shift.
At my store, I believe our Mastrena machines have an option for a Lungo shot. If your baristas look confused, suggest looking for the button labeled 'L' on the upper left of the control panel. I know for sure we have Ristretto shots available, and I'm pretty sure we have Lungo available.
The only catch in this is that this option is only available on the Mastrena machines. I was previously at another store with the older, boxier machines- with no option for ristretto or lungo.
posted by Hwin at 4:59 PM on August 5, 2010
At my store, I believe our Mastrena machines have an option for a Lungo shot. If your baristas look confused, suggest looking for the button labeled 'L' on the upper left of the control panel. I know for sure we have Ristretto shots available, and I'm pretty sure we have Lungo available.
The only catch in this is that this option is only available on the Mastrena machines. I was previously at another store with the older, boxier machines- with no option for ristretto or lungo.
posted by Hwin at 4:59 PM on August 5, 2010
Best answer: Second post of confirmation: We *do* have a Lungo button, and it's exactly where I thought it was. This is only on the shorter machines with the round hoppers full of espresso beans, so check your store's machine and suggest the location of the Lungo button as necessary.
posted by Hwin at 5:03 PM on August 5, 2010
posted by Hwin at 5:03 PM on August 5, 2010
An Americano is adding water to a shot of espresso. In a long espresso (lungo), all of the water passes through the grounds:
Ahhh, thank you -
posted by jalexei at 9:16 PM on August 5, 2010
Ahhh, thank you -
posted by jalexei at 9:16 PM on August 5, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
The upside of this is that your shots come out a lot faster, so for a high-volume store, they're ideal. But you can only make regular shots in them. No long shots, no cubanos, no anything but a regular ol' shot.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:12 PM on August 4, 2010