married and not deported
August 4, 2010 5:58 AM Subscribe
We're getting married! How do I make sure my fiance doesn't get deported?
I am a US citizen, and my fiance is a citizen of another country. His country of citizenship is NOT one of the countries that would raise red flags with the US immigration authorities. He is currently in the US on a valid non-immigrant visa, good for another two years.
We would like to get married in his home country and return to the US for the time remaining on his visa. He would not necessarily apply for green card status based on the marriage; in fact, we would prefer to avoid a green card application as we are not sure that we will remain in the US after his current visa status expires. If we were to marry in the US, he would not apply for a green card after the marriage.
Can we get married in his home country and return to the US with the same status? Will they turn him away because they assume he is entering with an intent to change status? My biggest fear is that we will not be able to get back in to the US after marrying abroad.
Are there other options? We would really like to do something in his home country, as he has elderly relatives that would not be able to travel to the US for a wedding here.
I am a US citizen, and my fiance is a citizen of another country. His country of citizenship is NOT one of the countries that would raise red flags with the US immigration authorities. He is currently in the US on a valid non-immigrant visa, good for another two years.
We would like to get married in his home country and return to the US for the time remaining on his visa. He would not necessarily apply for green card status based on the marriage; in fact, we would prefer to avoid a green card application as we are not sure that we will remain in the US after his current visa status expires. If we were to marry in the US, he would not apply for a green card after the marriage.
Can we get married in his home country and return to the US with the same status? Will they turn him away because they assume he is entering with an intent to change status? My biggest fear is that we will not be able to get back in to the US after marrying abroad.
Are there other options? We would really like to do something in his home country, as he has elderly relatives that would not be able to travel to the US for a wedding here.
You don't say what kind of visa he has, but I know with student visas and work visas, you can go back to your home country freely for various reasons and come back with no problem. Had it occurred to you both to go, get married, and then not declare your marriage on the trip back through customs? My experience in later college with students and temporary adjunct professors and researchers on visas indicates that this is very common practice, even if it is dubiously legal. You can always get a courthouse wedding here in the States to make it "legal" after the fact.
posted by juniperesque at 6:49 AM on August 4, 2010
posted by juniperesque at 6:49 AM on August 4, 2010
not USA - but I'm on a work visa in the UK tied to company. they only ever ask me if my employment arrangements have changed. I dont' see why you would have to volunteer change in marital status unless asked directly.
are you intending to change names immediately and get a new passport etc? I don't understand why it would be a problem. you go up to the desk hand over your passport and only answer questions asked. (do they usually ask, "has your marital status recently changed?")
posted by mary8nne at 6:57 AM on August 4, 2010
are you intending to change names immediately and get a new passport etc? I don't understand why it would be a problem. you go up to the desk hand over your passport and only answer questions asked. (do they usually ask, "has your marital status recently changed?")
posted by mary8nne at 6:57 AM on August 4, 2010
These questions are true You Need An Immigration Lawyer questions. The answers may depend on what kind of non-immigrant visa, what country your fiance is from, and other facts not included in your question. Do not just get married abroad and hope for the best or take anecdotal advice. As someone who practices law in a field adjacent to immigration, I've seen how badly your life can be fucked up if you don't receive sound counsel. (Not trying to scare you, just to impress upon you how much you need a professional, and maybe a second opinion just to be sure.)
If you do not have contacts who can suggest a good immigration attorney, contact your city, county, or state bar association. Most have referral services on their websites.
posted by *s at 7:01 AM on August 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
If you do not have contacts who can suggest a good immigration attorney, contact your city, county, or state bar association. Most have referral services on their websites.
posted by *s at 7:01 AM on August 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
Can we get married in his home country and return to the US with the same status?
Probably-maybe.
Will they turn him away because they assume he is entering with an intent to change status?
Maybe, and there's no way to know ahead of time. It's up to the agent he's dealing with.
Also, especially if your beau is from another OECD country, *you* might be denied entrance to his country to marry because you might look like you're going to try to become a resident there.
This one is worth talking to a couple of attorneys or other counselors, one for here and one for there, and you should start resigning yourself now to not being able to do things the way you want and on the schedule you want.
Had it occurred to you both to go, get married, and then not declare your marriage on the trip back through customs?
JESUS GOD NO. The last thing you want is for him to look squirrelly in the line and act kind of funny (because he JUST GOT MARRIED) and be fiddling with his ring finger or otherwise suspicious.
You can always get a courthouse wedding here in the States to make it "legal" after the fact.
This is not a worry. The US and its states will recognize nearly any (heterosexual) marriage performed out of the US. If anything, the danger is in the other direction -- apparently it sometimes happens that couples get a ceremony they think is not a legal marriage in the foreign country that turns out, to their surprise, to count as a legal wedding in the eyes of the US.
I dont' see why you would have to volunteer change in marital status unless asked directly.
They're very likely to ask "What was the purpose of your trip to Wherever," and it is very bad to be caught out lying about that.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:02 AM on August 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
Probably-maybe.
Will they turn him away because they assume he is entering with an intent to change status?
Maybe, and there's no way to know ahead of time. It's up to the agent he's dealing with.
Also, especially if your beau is from another OECD country, *you* might be denied entrance to his country to marry because you might look like you're going to try to become a resident there.
This one is worth talking to a couple of attorneys or other counselors, one for here and one for there, and you should start resigning yourself now to not being able to do things the way you want and on the schedule you want.
Had it occurred to you both to go, get married, and then not declare your marriage on the trip back through customs?
JESUS GOD NO. The last thing you want is for him to look squirrelly in the line and act kind of funny (because he JUST GOT MARRIED) and be fiddling with his ring finger or otherwise suspicious.
You can always get a courthouse wedding here in the States to make it "legal" after the fact.
This is not a worry. The US and its states will recognize nearly any (heterosexual) marriage performed out of the US. If anything, the danger is in the other direction -- apparently it sometimes happens that couples get a ceremony they think is not a legal marriage in the foreign country that turns out, to their surprise, to count as a legal wedding in the eyes of the US.
I dont' see why you would have to volunteer change in marital status unless asked directly.
They're very likely to ask "What was the purpose of your trip to Wherever," and it is very bad to be caught out lying about that.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:02 AM on August 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
Probably the easiest way to do this (if it makes sense) would be to legally marry in the US and file the paperwork to adjust his status to LPR, and at the same time file for advance parole and, if appropriate, an employment authorization document. While you're waiting for the AP paperwork, talk to his-country's local consulate about what paperwork or evidence of intent to return to the US you'll need to enter his country.
Once AP arrives, you could then go to his country and -- if this is possible under his nominal or real faith -- have a ceremony that amounts to a blessing and solemnization of an existing marriage. Or speak to the officiant and ask him or her to conduct it as closely as possible to a "proper" marriage. In Christian faiths, this is not normally a problem; AFAIK they all have rubrics to deal with this.
Dividing the legal marriage and any (notionally) religious ceremonies is actually a common way to deal with relatives who can't travel, etc. It generally makes sense to do the legal marriage first because, as I noted, sometimes the US might count a religious ceremony as having legal effect even if that's inconvenient to you.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:10 AM on August 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
Once AP arrives, you could then go to his country and -- if this is possible under his nominal or real faith -- have a ceremony that amounts to a blessing and solemnization of an existing marriage. Or speak to the officiant and ask him or her to conduct it as closely as possible to a "proper" marriage. In Christian faiths, this is not normally a problem; AFAIK they all have rubrics to deal with this.
Dividing the legal marriage and any (notionally) religious ceremonies is actually a common way to deal with relatives who can't travel, etc. It generally makes sense to do the legal marriage first because, as I noted, sometimes the US might count a religious ceremony as having legal effect even if that's inconvenient to you.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:10 AM on August 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
Yeah, you're probably good, but definitely get an immigration lawyer. Having someone point out the mines when the stakes are catastrophic is such a relief.
posted by felix betachat at 7:32 AM on August 4, 2010
posted by felix betachat at 7:32 AM on August 4, 2010
Probably the easiest way to do this (if it makes sense) would be to legally marry in the US and file the paperwork to adjust his status to LPR, and at the same time file for advance parole and, if appropriate, an employment authorization document.
But if he ends up adjusting status to LPR and lets it lapse, it potentially becomes more difficult to return to the US as a visitor in future, which makes his desire not to adjust status reasonable -- though being married to a US citizen counts towards that evaluation of intent to remain as well.
posted by holgate at 7:34 AM on August 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
But if he ends up adjusting status to LPR and lets it lapse, it potentially becomes more difficult to return to the US as a visitor in future, which makes his desire not to adjust status reasonable -- though being married to a US citizen counts towards that evaluation of intent to remain as well.
posted by holgate at 7:34 AM on August 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
Get legally married in the US before you go to his country.
Marriage has many meanings - including legal, social, cultural, and religious. What you need is a legal US marriage - then head to his country and enjoy the social, cultural, religious marriage (which is the personally more important part.)
Go to the local court-house. Quietly bring one friend as a witness. Tell your friend, this is a legal marriage to help resolve legal issues so that we can get married socially without having a head-ache.
Then appear before a county magistrate, and get legally married. It is easy to do.
And this is much cheaper than getting an immigration lawyer.
posted by Flood at 7:56 AM on August 4, 2010
Marriage has many meanings - including legal, social, cultural, and religious. What you need is a legal US marriage - then head to his country and enjoy the social, cultural, religious marriage (which is the personally more important part.)
Go to the local court-house. Quietly bring one friend as a witness. Tell your friend, this is a legal marriage to help resolve legal issues so that we can get married socially without having a head-ache.
Then appear before a county magistrate, and get legally married. It is easy to do.
And this is much cheaper than getting an immigration lawyer.
posted by Flood at 7:56 AM on August 4, 2010
This is a matter for an immigration lawyer. Of all areas of law where a lawyer is needed, immigration is it. You should not ever, ever, ever do this on your own. I would feel more comfortable with a murder defendant doing his own jury trial pro se than a person attempting to navigate the immigration system without an attorney. Get a referral.
posted by Ironmouth at 8:07 AM on August 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Ironmouth at 8:07 AM on August 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
Do not underestimate the ways in which doing this incorrectly will royally screw you over, cause you much frustration, and cost serious dollars. Talk to one or two immigration lawyers. For real.
posted by barnone at 8:18 AM on August 4, 2010
posted by barnone at 8:18 AM on August 4, 2010
IANAL, but please, GET AN IMMIGRATION LAWYER. THE STATE DEPARTMENT DOESN'T CARE WHAT THE COLLECTIVE OPINION OF THE GREEN IS.
This isn't a minor "my neighbor's tree squashed my shed" legal issue. This is a big fucking deal. The wrong move here means potential repercussions that could affect you both for the rest of your lives.
This is the time to go talk to a lawyer. In most cases, the first conversation is free. It is of the utmost importance that you do not do anything until you speak to a lawyer. Once the ball starts rolling in the wrong direction, it's very hard to undo such things.
posted by swngnmonk at 8:25 AM on August 4, 2010 [4 favorites]
This isn't a minor "my neighbor's tree squashed my shed" legal issue. This is a big fucking deal. The wrong move here means potential repercussions that could affect you both for the rest of your lives.
This is the time to go talk to a lawyer. In most cases, the first conversation is free. It is of the utmost importance that you do not do anything until you speak to a lawyer. Once the ball starts rolling in the wrong direction, it's very hard to undo such things.
posted by swngnmonk at 8:25 AM on August 4, 2010 [4 favorites]
While you're at it, inform yourself about custody laws in his native country. Should you have kids and the relationship go bad, you may be in for a surprise. Not just Muslim countries that automatically award custody to the father -- Norway is notorious for assuming that whichever parent wants to live in Norway should have full custody of the child.
posted by musofire at 8:44 AM on August 4, 2010
posted by musofire at 8:44 AM on August 4, 2010
What you need is a legal US marriage - then head to his country and enjoy the social, cultural, religious marriage (which is the personally more important part.)
Uh, no. You missed out the bit where they need to sort out the fiancé's immigration status in the US, and getting married in the county courthouse doesn't satisfy that on its own.
You should not ever, ever, ever do this on your own.
That's overstating the case. There are situations where the immigration bureaucracy is tiresome and Kafkaesque, but it's navigable without a tame lawyer.
This isn't one of them: there's a non-trivial chance that the decisions you make will have long-term repercussions, and that a decision made in a few seconds by an individual agent could severely fuck over your lives. Get an immigration lawyer, discuss everything about your future plans and make sure that the course of action takes into account any potential but unplanned options.
posted by holgate at 9:00 AM on August 4, 2010
Uh, no. You missed out the bit where they need to sort out the fiancé's immigration status in the US, and getting married in the county courthouse doesn't satisfy that on its own.
You should not ever, ever, ever do this on your own.
That's overstating the case. There are situations where the immigration bureaucracy is tiresome and Kafkaesque, but it's navigable without a tame lawyer.
This isn't one of them: there's a non-trivial chance that the decisions you make will have long-term repercussions, and that a decision made in a few seconds by an individual agent could severely fuck over your lives. Get an immigration lawyer, discuss everything about your future plans and make sure that the course of action takes into account any potential but unplanned options.
posted by holgate at 9:00 AM on August 4, 2010
Of all areas of law where a lawyer is needed, immigration is it. You should not ever, ever, ever do this on your own.
Nah. If he was in the country and they wanted to remain in the US, this would be easily dealt with without a lawyer.
It's complicated because they're trying hard not to avail themselves of some of the benefits of their marriage, and be seen to avoid those benefits. I'm usually on the "You can do this without a lawyer" side, and I think they need a US one and an equivalent in Foreignland.
NB: an immigration attorney, not a random attorney. There's no reason to think that a local attorney knows beans about dealing with USCIS/ICE and State.
But if he ends up adjusting status to LPR and lets it lapse, it potentially becomes more difficult to return to the US as a visitor in future
That's certainly true. I meant to say on that it might be the easiest way to deal with having a ceremony in Foreignland, but wasn't clear about that, and should have mentioned the complication.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:42 AM on August 4, 2010
Nah. If he was in the country and they wanted to remain in the US, this would be easily dealt with without a lawyer.
It's complicated because they're trying hard not to avail themselves of some of the benefits of their marriage, and be seen to avoid those benefits. I'm usually on the "You can do this without a lawyer" side, and I think they need a US one and an equivalent in Foreignland.
NB: an immigration attorney, not a random attorney. There's no reason to think that a local attorney knows beans about dealing with USCIS/ICE and State.
But if he ends up adjusting status to LPR and lets it lapse, it potentially becomes more difficult to return to the US as a visitor in future
That's certainly true. I meant to say on that it might be the easiest way to deal with having a ceremony in Foreignland, but wasn't clear about that, and should have mentioned the complication.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:42 AM on August 4, 2010
Nthing talk to an immigration lawyer. If money is a concern, you should be able to go to your state or local bar association and get a low-cost referral to a specialist. If you can't find one that way, go to AILA's web site. They have a locator too. Working with an immigration lawyer on a case like this is like taking out an insurance policy. You'll feel like you're overpaying, but if something goes wrong, you'll be very glad you did it.
posted by immlass at 9:46 AM on August 4, 2010
posted by immlass at 9:46 AM on August 4, 2010
You need an immigration attorney. This is not like some legal matters where you can print out a simple standard form and make a few changes and you have a 90% chance of being ok. I've seen situation likes yours go horribly awry in even simple cases like a US citizen marrying a Canadian who was already in the country on a valid work visa. It took an influential representative to stop him from being deported because they missed one meeting and another 2 years to clean up the mess. Get an attorney. Trust me it will save you a lot of money and heartache in the long run.
posted by whoaali at 10:06 AM on August 4, 2010
posted by whoaali at 10:06 AM on August 4, 2010
Everyone is saying you should contact an immigration lawyer - I agree. Specifically, you want a family immigration lawyer - one who specializes in status changes due to marriage. My husband and I used Richard Kolomejec in San Francisco, and I highly, highly recommend him. Made the process a breeze, answered every question we had. Even if you aren't in the area, he offers free telephone consultations, and he might be able to recommend a lawyer for your area.
posted by Gori Girl at 10:11 AM on August 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Gori Girl at 10:11 AM on August 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
Can we get married in his home country and return to the US with the same status? Will they turn him away because they assume he is entering with an intent to change status? My biggest fear is that we will not be able to get back in to the US after marrying abroad.
From my understanding, which comes from the fact that I just married a foreigner—and of course you need a lawyer stat, this is just so you can get an idea of what kind of bureaucratic hell to expect—what you can do while in the U.S. depends solely on what kind of visa you came in on. If you come in on a standard tourist visa, you can stay for up to three months, but can't work, etc.
What troubled me was this part of your question: in fact, we would prefer to avoid a green card application as we are not sure that we will remain in the US after his current visa status expires
What that means: this guy might be in the U.S., whilst married to you, and facing a visa that's about to expire. He wouldn't just be able to stay in the U.S. after that visa runs out because he's married to you: you'd have to apply for a visa for an alien relative, which is a lengthy and horrible process. The (also long, horrible) green card process would come much, much later, and wouldn't be able to start until after he entered the country on that visa.
"Changing your mind" would raise all kinds of red flags and cause tons of delays in an already lengthy process, so not only do you need to go to a lawyer, you need to make up your mind—and the sooner, the better.
posted by blazingunicorn at 5:51 PM on August 4, 2010
From my understanding, which comes from the fact that I just married a foreigner—and of course you need a lawyer stat, this is just so you can get an idea of what kind of bureaucratic hell to expect—what you can do while in the U.S. depends solely on what kind of visa you came in on. If you come in on a standard tourist visa, you can stay for up to three months, but can't work, etc.
What troubled me was this part of your question: in fact, we would prefer to avoid a green card application as we are not sure that we will remain in the US after his current visa status expires
What that means: this guy might be in the U.S., whilst married to you, and facing a visa that's about to expire. He wouldn't just be able to stay in the U.S. after that visa runs out because he's married to you: you'd have to apply for a visa for an alien relative, which is a lengthy and horrible process. The (also long, horrible) green card process would come much, much later, and wouldn't be able to start until after he entered the country on that visa.
"Changing your mind" would raise all kinds of red flags and cause tons of delays in an already lengthy process, so not only do you need to go to a lawyer, you need to make up your mind—and the sooner, the better.
posted by blazingunicorn at 5:51 PM on August 4, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
Also: You definitely want to get a bead on what the laws are regarding married partners in his country. Some of the differences have huge implications should you end up following him home.
posted by Ys at 6:05 AM on August 4, 2010 [2 favorites]