Parklag 17, or, the Mediocre Escape
July 31, 2010 7:04 PM Subscribe
I extricated a friend's car (nondestructively) from a parking lot that it was locked into. What was going on, and what might happen next?
I was helping a friend move on a recent Saturday. She left her car in a parking lot near her house. This is an outdoor lot attached to a commercial building that sees a lot of activity on weekdays, but essentially none on weekends. In the lot, there are generic signs from a tow company that say "authorized parking only", but the only information as to what "authorized" means comes from a specific sign at each parking space. The sign for the space my friend parked in says "[Business Name] / Reserved Weekdays / 8 am to 6 pm."
After the car had been parked for about two hours, we went back to the lot to find that a yellow chain had been secured, with a padlock at each end, to posts at either side of the lot entrance. I guessed that this was the start of some effort on the part of the lot owner and/or towing company to get money from us, either by ransoming the car directly or by having a truck come down later and tow it. Since this seemed silly to me, and since there was an obvious way to remove and replace the chain using a tool we happened to have with us, I did exactly that, and my friend put her car somewhere safer.
I took pictures with my camera of the "before" (car in lot, text of signs, chain across posts) and "after" (no car in lot, chain across posts, chain and locks undamaged) situations just in case we need them later.
I'm not asking whether I did the right thing; I did what I believe is right and I'm willing to back it up. In case it wants repeating: we did absolutely no damage to anything, and we left the lot exactly as we found it, except for the car.
So I guess I have three questions:
(1) Was my explanation of the situation (chain was placed at the behest of shady towing company, who were planning to come back with a truck) the most probable?
(2) It's possible that someone took down the license plate number. My friend is the registered owner of the car. If anyone contacts me or her later in regard to this, we should ignore it unless and until we see something with actual legal force (like a summons), at which point we secure a lawyer. Right?
(3) It's pretty unlikely that anything will ever actually come of this. Right?
You are not my lawyer, etc. This was in the state of Washington, USA.
I was helping a friend move on a recent Saturday. She left her car in a parking lot near her house. This is an outdoor lot attached to a commercial building that sees a lot of activity on weekdays, but essentially none on weekends. In the lot, there are generic signs from a tow company that say "authorized parking only", but the only information as to what "authorized" means comes from a specific sign at each parking space. The sign for the space my friend parked in says "[Business Name] / Reserved Weekdays / 8 am to 6 pm."
After the car had been parked for about two hours, we went back to the lot to find that a yellow chain had been secured, with a padlock at each end, to posts at either side of the lot entrance. I guessed that this was the start of some effort on the part of the lot owner and/or towing company to get money from us, either by ransoming the car directly or by having a truck come down later and tow it. Since this seemed silly to me, and since there was an obvious way to remove and replace the chain using a tool we happened to have with us, I did exactly that, and my friend put her car somewhere safer.
I took pictures with my camera of the "before" (car in lot, text of signs, chain across posts) and "after" (no car in lot, chain across posts, chain and locks undamaged) situations just in case we need them later.
I'm not asking whether I did the right thing; I did what I believe is right and I'm willing to back it up. In case it wants repeating: we did absolutely no damage to anything, and we left the lot exactly as we found it, except for the car.
So I guess I have three questions:
(1) Was my explanation of the situation (chain was placed at the behest of shady towing company, who were planning to come back with a truck) the most probable?
(2) It's possible that someone took down the license plate number. My friend is the registered owner of the car. If anyone contacts me or her later in regard to this, we should ignore it unless and until we see something with actual legal force (like a summons), at which point we secure a lawyer. Right?
(3) It's pretty unlikely that anything will ever actually come of this. Right?
You are not my lawyer, etc. This was in the state of Washington, USA.
I'm still unclear as to how you got the chains out without compromising them or the locks. Am I missing something here? Were the posts just straight up and down posts with ends and not secured on both ends so you lifted the chains over them, and replaced them?
I would also agree that if there was no damage done, you have proof (pictures) and that you were parked there outside of the posted 8 am to 6 pm, you shouldn't have to worry about it at all.
posted by TheBones at 7:23 PM on July 31, 2010
I would also agree that if there was no damage done, you have proof (pictures) and that you were parked there outside of the posted 8 am to 6 pm, you shouldn't have to worry about it at all.
posted by TheBones at 7:23 PM on July 31, 2010
They're not going to do anything. Actually I would not mention the pictures if anyone from this place contacts you. Which they won't. But if they do, the pictures show you were in their lot. If this was me and they did happen to contact me, I'd be like, "I don't know what you're talking about."
posted by citron at 7:29 PM on July 31, 2010
posted by citron at 7:29 PM on July 31, 2010
Hell, even if you cut the chain, I'd bet you'd be in the clear. #3.
posted by MrMoonPie at 7:30 PM on July 31, 2010
posted by MrMoonPie at 7:30 PM on July 31, 2010
If you left the chain & lock as you found it, they're probably not even going to notice the car is gone.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:32 PM on July 31, 2010
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:32 PM on July 31, 2010
Technically, most places I've been, picking a lock or unbolting a hinge or using a coat hanger to unlock a car door or opening a chain with chain pliers is illegal (considered the "breaking" part of breaking and entering) even if you don't cause any damage or return things to how they were. The tools used are considered burglary tools even if it's something as mundane as a coat hanger or screwdriver and possession of such can be illegal (sometimes you need have prior convictions).
Having said that it's pretty unlikely anyone will come after you or the car's owner unless the lot happens to belong to the mayor's brother or Chief of Police's nephew or something.
"Was my explanation of the situation (chain was placed at the behest of shady towing company, who were planning to come back with a truck) the most probable?"
This actually seems unlikely to me, it could create a lot of drama for essentially no reason and tow truck drivers don't need any more drama in their lives. Business is rarely so sparse as to require stacking illegals up for later. More likely is some control freak in charge of the parking lot wanted to "punish" your friend for having the temerity to park in their lot. The chain would have been removed before the start of business and your friend would have merely been inconvenienced until that time. Or the lot owner routinely chains the entrance and you just never noticed before.
posted by Mitheral at 7:32 PM on July 31, 2010 [1 favorite]
Having said that it's pretty unlikely anyone will come after you or the car's owner unless the lot happens to belong to the mayor's brother or Chief of Police's nephew or something.
"Was my explanation of the situation (chain was placed at the behest of shady towing company, who were planning to come back with a truck) the most probable?"
This actually seems unlikely to me, it could create a lot of drama for essentially no reason and tow truck drivers don't need any more drama in their lives. Business is rarely so sparse as to require stacking illegals up for later. More likely is some control freak in charge of the parking lot wanted to "punish" your friend for having the temerity to park in their lot. The chain would have been removed before the start of business and your friend would have merely been inconvenienced until that time. Or the lot owner routinely chains the entrance and you just never noticed before.
posted by Mitheral at 7:32 PM on July 31, 2010 [1 favorite]
This is pretty easy to do - I've even taken wheel clamps off before*. As long as you don't damage anything and this is a private company, there is nothing they can do nor is there any comeback for you.
If they approach you, deny any parking issue occurred and calmly walk off.
*One time we did it with representatives of the company trying to get us to stop, but with a stand off because they couldn't stop us touching our car, and we weren't damaging anything. We took them clamp off, ignored their bluster and threats, gave them the clamp and wished them good day as we drove off. If that got no comeback, then this is peanuts.
**I did do this once by driving out of the clamp (old beater car!) and smashed the clamp off the wheel. I don't recommend this approach. It got me into a decent amount of trouble with the Head of the University...
I'm still unclear as to how you got the chains out without compromising them or the locks.
A usual basic error is to bolt the shackle for the chain to the post. They often assume no-one has tools, so basic spanners (wrenches) and a socket set will get you out of a lot. I imagine the solution was similar to this.
posted by Brockles at 7:34 PM on July 31, 2010 [2 favorites]
If they approach you, deny any parking issue occurred and calmly walk off.
*One time we did it with representatives of the company trying to get us to stop, but with a stand off because they couldn't stop us touching our car, and we weren't damaging anything. We took them clamp off, ignored their bluster and threats, gave them the clamp and wished them good day as we drove off. If that got no comeback, then this is peanuts.
**I did do this once by driving out of the clamp (old beater car!) and smashed the clamp off the wheel. I don't recommend this approach. It got me into a decent amount of trouble with the Head of the University...
I'm still unclear as to how you got the chains out without compromising them or the locks.
A usual basic error is to bolt the shackle for the chain to the post. They often assume no-one has tools, so basic spanners (wrenches) and a socket set will get you out of a lot. I imagine the solution was similar to this.
posted by Brockles at 7:34 PM on July 31, 2010 [2 favorites]
They probably do this every night no matter what. I doubt it was some targeted effort to trap one car in the lot. Most lots that have chain gate things close them after business hours.
posted by elpea at 7:44 PM on July 31, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by elpea at 7:44 PM on July 31, 2010 [5 favorites]
It's probably not a 24 hour lot, and your friend's car got locked in at close. Don't sweat it. Seriously...stop thinking about it right now.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 8:03 PM on July 31, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by The Light Fantastic at 8:03 PM on July 31, 2010 [1 favorite]
We took them clamp off
Okay seriously, how did you do this?
posted by fatbird at 8:09 PM on July 31, 2010
Okay seriously, how did you do this?
posted by fatbird at 8:09 PM on July 31, 2010
I'm guessing the chain is to keep other cars from coming in, not your friends car from going out. It's probably a nightly exercise to keep the lot from being full in the morning when it is needed for customers.
posted by NoDef at 8:11 PM on July 31, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by NoDef at 8:11 PM on July 31, 2010 [1 favorite]
Okay seriously, how did you do this?
At the risk of a derail, there are several ways - if you can get to the wheel nuts, just take the wheel off (flat wrench onto the nut). It's surprising how much clearance you can get at the front of the wheel if you jack the car up and move the clamp around. Someone sticks a foot on the brake at the best angle to get at the nut and hey presto, you can slowly take the wheel off one nut at a time. You can even (for example...) keep a breaker bar and a low profile socket in the car just for this purpose. Or even weld something appropriate up, if you have a habit of parking with wild abandon on University grounds. *cough*
Once the wheel is off (or alternatively do this before taking the wheel off if you have the means to re-inflate and a very stable car jack during the prying) let the tyre down and pry the clamp off with something non damaging. You then drive on the spare to a garage/fuel station and re-inflate and be on your way. Sticks or rubber coated wheel braces work fine for the prying stage (although, allegedly, you can get quite forceful with one before marking it).
There are several more severe ways, but only worth trying if you are determined not to pay and getting the wheel off doesn't work, and it is surprising quite how much you can disassemble a car for this purpose by the side of the road if you're tight/annoyed/stubborn
Now, the law enforcement ones are of much better quality and design, usually, and so hard to get off (with such a dire consequence) that I don't at all recommend even trying. However, the money grabbing private company bastards that clamp just to screw money out of you are fair game, by my book.
posted by Brockles at 8:30 PM on July 31, 2010 [22 favorites]
At the risk of a derail, there are several ways - if you can get to the wheel nuts, just take the wheel off (flat wrench onto the nut). It's surprising how much clearance you can get at the front of the wheel if you jack the car up and move the clamp around. Someone sticks a foot on the brake at the best angle to get at the nut and hey presto, you can slowly take the wheel off one nut at a time. You can even (for example...) keep a breaker bar and a low profile socket in the car just for this purpose. Or even weld something appropriate up, if you have a habit of parking with wild abandon on University grounds. *cough*
Once the wheel is off (or alternatively do this before taking the wheel off if you have the means to re-inflate and a very stable car jack during the prying) let the tyre down and pry the clamp off with something non damaging. You then drive on the spare to a garage/fuel station and re-inflate and be on your way. Sticks or rubber coated wheel braces work fine for the prying stage (although, allegedly, you can get quite forceful with one before marking it).
There are several more severe ways, but only worth trying if you are determined not to pay and getting the wheel off doesn't work, and it is surprising quite how much you can disassemble a car for this purpose by the side of the road if you're tight/annoyed/stubborn
Now, the law enforcement ones are of much better quality and design, usually, and so hard to get off (with such a dire consequence) that I don't at all recommend even trying. However, the money grabbing private company bastards that clamp just to screw money out of you are fair game, by my book.
posted by Brockles at 8:30 PM on July 31, 2010 [22 favorites]
Yes, 3 is correct. But more correct is option 4: You were never in that parking lot and you have no idea what they are talking about *click*.
posted by spaltavian at 9:10 PM on July 31, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by spaltavian at 9:10 PM on July 31, 2010 [4 favorites]
I'm not an expert on criminal law in Washington, but I do work in law enforcement; at most, it sounds like to me that this could be interpreted as trespassing.
RCW 9A.52.080
Criminal trespass in the second degree.
(1) A person is guilty of criminal trespass in the second degree if he knowingly enters or remains unlawfully in or upon premises of another under circumstances not constituting criminal trespass in the first degree.
(2) Criminal trespass in the second degree is a misdemeanor.
(It looks like first degree is for buildings, second degree is property that is not a building).
Generally, if an area is fenced off (or chained off, in this case), a reasonable person would be expected to know that is an area they are not free to enter. However, if there was some other gate or way into the lot such that you could just walk around the chained area and get in freely by foot, I think they would have a hard time making a case for trespassing (unless there were signs explicitly saying "No Trespassing between (X and Y time).
Either way, I really, REALLY doubt anyone is that interested in pushing it, and even if they did I seriously doubt a DA would prosecute it.
posted by Menthol at 9:28 PM on July 31, 2010
RCW 9A.52.080
Criminal trespass in the second degree.
(1) A person is guilty of criminal trespass in the second degree if he knowingly enters or remains unlawfully in or upon premises of another under circumstances not constituting criminal trespass in the first degree.
(2) Criminal trespass in the second degree is a misdemeanor.
(It looks like first degree is for buildings, second degree is property that is not a building).
Generally, if an area is fenced off (or chained off, in this case), a reasonable person would be expected to know that is an area they are not free to enter. However, if there was some other gate or way into the lot such that you could just walk around the chained area and get in freely by foot, I think they would have a hard time making a case for trespassing (unless there were signs explicitly saying "No Trespassing between (X and Y time).
Either way, I really, REALLY doubt anyone is that interested in pushing it, and even if they did I seriously doubt a DA would prosecute it.
posted by Menthol at 9:28 PM on July 31, 2010
I wouldn't think shady towing company... I'd think accidentally locked in. One morning I had to go to the hospital at 10am for my dad's surgery. There was no parking except on the top of the garage so that's where I parked. Apparently they close off the 3rd and 4th floors of the garage at night (with a chain across the driveways) because people were loitering in their cars up there. There was a complication in my dad's surgery and he was taken to ICU, so I didn't get out of the hospital until after 1am. I had to flag down a passing hospital security truck to explain what happened and have him free my car, which he was happy to do.
posted by IndigoRain at 12:36 AM on August 1, 2010
posted by IndigoRain at 12:36 AM on August 1, 2010
I used to park in my friend's space at her gated city-centre office carpark all the time on Saturdays (with her permission). Sometimes when I came back, other cars would also be in there, in the spaces reserved for other businesses.
Having no way of knowing if they were or weren't supposed to be there, I always put the chain across the entrance on the assumption that people with permission would have keys, and those without should know better than to park where they weren't supposed to be and could suck it up if they got locked in.
I'm not judging you for parking where you did (moving is a nightmare) - just saying that someone with a similar attitude to mine probably chained you in and won't give a damn that the car is now gone. Don't worry about it.
posted by citands at 6:12 AM on August 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
Having no way of knowing if they were or weren't supposed to be there, I always put the chain across the entrance on the assumption that people with permission would have keys, and those without should know better than to park where they weren't supposed to be and could suck it up if they got locked in.
I'm not judging you for parking where you did (moving is a nightmare) - just saying that someone with a similar attitude to mine probably chained you in and won't give a damn that the car is now gone. Don't worry about it.
posted by citands at 6:12 AM on August 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
Technically illegal, yeah, probably. I'd still say #3.
posted by InsanePenguin at 6:26 AM on August 1, 2010
posted by InsanePenguin at 6:26 AM on August 1, 2010
If they didn't take your car, you are fine.
I don't know enough law to speak knowledgeably on this point, but I *think* there is a difference between breaking and entering, and breaking and exiting. If the car was in an impound lot and you broke their security to get your car, you'd probably be liable for some kind of trouble because they legally had possession of your car. (Same thing as breaking into a storage space that you were locked out of for failing to pay your bill.) But unless they can prove that they legally took custody of your property (like towing or booting), and if your actions didn't harm their property, I think you are in the clear.
I have been screwed by exactly this kind of parking situation. A row of businesses on a street, with parking in the rear off an alley. All the businesses are closed, except for the one I was patronizing. There were signs that said pretty much exactly what you saw, "authorized parking only, you will be towed". I used the same logic- I may not be specifically authorized, but the business is closed and I'm not hurting anything. Two hours later, the car is gone.
It may be different in other places, but in Chicago (or Cook County, I forget the jurisdiction that applied), if there is a valid towing company sign up, you are basically giving them your car. The assumption is that you aren't authorized, unless you can prove you are. (Fun fact- in Chicago, they have to file a tow report with the police when they tow your car, and the impound lot has to be within a certain number of miles from the parking spot, and I believe they have to be available to return your car within a certain time limit. If they fail to do these things, you can get your money back. In theory.)
posted by gjc at 7:45 AM on August 1, 2010
I don't know enough law to speak knowledgeably on this point, but I *think* there is a difference between breaking and entering, and breaking and exiting. If the car was in an impound lot and you broke their security to get your car, you'd probably be liable for some kind of trouble because they legally had possession of your car. (Same thing as breaking into a storage space that you were locked out of for failing to pay your bill.) But unless they can prove that they legally took custody of your property (like towing or booting), and if your actions didn't harm their property, I think you are in the clear.
I have been screwed by exactly this kind of parking situation. A row of businesses on a street, with parking in the rear off an alley. All the businesses are closed, except for the one I was patronizing. There were signs that said pretty much exactly what you saw, "authorized parking only, you will be towed". I used the same logic- I may not be specifically authorized, but the business is closed and I'm not hurting anything. Two hours later, the car is gone.
It may be different in other places, but in Chicago (or Cook County, I forget the jurisdiction that applied), if there is a valid towing company sign up, you are basically giving them your car. The assumption is that you aren't authorized, unless you can prove you are. (Fun fact- in Chicago, they have to file a tow report with the police when they tow your car, and the impound lot has to be within a certain number of miles from the parking spot, and I believe they have to be available to return your car within a certain time limit. If they fail to do these things, you can get your money back. In theory.)
posted by gjc at 7:45 AM on August 1, 2010
More than likely there's a set schedule for when they put up the chain. And that it had nothing do with the car being present. Forget about it, but consider not making the same mistake again. Towing is a hassle best avoided.
posted by wkearney99 at 10:58 AM on August 1, 2010
posted by wkearney99 at 10:58 AM on August 1, 2010
(1) Was my explanation of the situation (chain was placed at the behest of shady towing company, who were planning to come back with a truck) the most probable?
Yep. It's the same reason they boot cars: because they can't get to them immediately. So they trap the car until the tow trucks come.
(2) It's possible that someone took down the license plate number. My friend is the registered owner of the car. If anyone contacts me or her later in regard to this, we should ignore it unless and until we see something with actual legal force (like a summons), at which point we secure a lawyer. Right?
a. Most likely they plate was written down.
b. Yes.
(3) It's pretty unlikely that anything will ever actually come of this. Right?
Yes. You won.
Here are some other inspiring threads about other people with similar problems (with pics!)
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 11:38 AM on August 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
Yep. It's the same reason they boot cars: because they can't get to them immediately. So they trap the car until the tow trucks come.
(2) It's possible that someone took down the license plate number. My friend is the registered owner of the car. If anyone contacts me or her later in regard to this, we should ignore it unless and until we see something with actual legal force (like a summons), at which point we secure a lawyer. Right?
a. Most likely they plate was written down.
b. Yes.
(3) It's pretty unlikely that anything will ever actually come of this. Right?
Yes. You won.
Here are some other inspiring threads about other people with similar problems (with pics!)
- Honda vs. car boot
- Angle-Grinder Man - superhero
- And of course, the all-time greatest example: Audi / Dolly Man (original thread appears dead, but this thread has some choice quotes)
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 11:38 AM on August 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
I don't know enough law to speak knowledgeably on this point, but I *think* there is a difference between breaking and entering, and breaking and exiting.
Technically, this was an act very similar to what the law calls replevin^: a seizure of wrongly withheld property, usually loan collateral of some type (thus similar to repossession). My dad was once an assistant in a replevin of a large antique stove which was supposed to have been repaired and restored by a fellow for my dad's friend, but had not been and did not appear as if it ever would be. They obtained a writ of replevin from a judge and waved it at the guy as they retrieved the stove from his barn.
Since you did this without a writ, this was self-help. Certainly any remedy the law might give would be likely mild, like paying a service charge. Charging you with B&E to retrieve your own property seems extreme. What purpose would such a prosecution achieve?
But I really believe this was an accidental or scheduled chain-in, and you're likely to never see any consequence.
posted by dhartung at 10:25 PM on August 1, 2010
Technically, this was an act very similar to what the law calls replevin^: a seizure of wrongly withheld property, usually loan collateral of some type (thus similar to repossession). My dad was once an assistant in a replevin of a large antique stove which was supposed to have been repaired and restored by a fellow for my dad's friend, but had not been and did not appear as if it ever would be. They obtained a writ of replevin from a judge and waved it at the guy as they retrieved the stove from his barn.
Since you did this without a writ, this was self-help. Certainly any remedy the law might give would be likely mild, like paying a service charge. Charging you with B&E to retrieve your own property seems extreme. What purpose would such a prosecution achieve?
But I really believe this was an accidental or scheduled chain-in, and you're likely to never see any consequence.
posted by dhartung at 10:25 PM on August 1, 2010
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posted by mbx at 7:16 PM on July 31, 2010