Teasing as means of enforcing social roles?
July 26, 2010 5:09 AM Subscribe
What's the deal with people never wanting you to change?
Are there solid, evidence-based explanations for why people tend to mock, tease and generally be irritating to people who change themselves in minor ways?
Some examples:
*A friend wore all black from high school until about age 26, at which point he decided that he was bored with it, and it was annoying to keep having to buy new black shirts because the old ones faded, etc. Whenever he would wear a blue shirt, he would hear at least one comment similar to 'Whoa! Check out Mr. Blue Shirt! What happened to the Prince of Darkness?' and just generally making a big deal of this completely minor shirt color situation.
*I know several women who wear pants 99.9% of the time. Sometimes, one or the other of them will decide, for reasons of variety, to start incorporating more skirts into her daily wardrobe. She is greeted by "Whoa! Have you got a big date tonight/job interview/etc? All dressed up!"
*After 10 years of being a vegetarian, I have been considering adding some meat to my diet. Just putting forth the idea to people has started with the "Whoa! We knew we'd win you back over! Your ethics are just no match for deliciousness!"
I could probably come up with a few dozen similar examples, but the main thing is: the comments tend to be at best gently mocking, and they tend to persist for quite some time. (Hell, I've been a vegetarian for 10 years, and I *still* get asked - hilariously - if I want ribs or whatever for dinner.)
Now, most of these types of comments are innocuous enough on their face, but become really annoying. I don't really understand the purpose of them. I have two hypotheses:
*The mocking comments are a way of enforcing established social roles, so Friend (1) will remain 'the guy who always wears black,' Lady (2) will be 'the tomboy who never wears skirts' and I (3) will stay 'palindromic the vegetarian.' The teasing is then intended to prevent the change from sticking or occurring.
*They are intended to gently and humorously acknowledge a change seen in the person, but, as David Sedaris pointed out so well in 'The Santa Land Diaries.' people are not aware that they've made the same joke/comment as everyone else. They are honestly not aware that these types of jokes and comments can make people want to abandon whatever changes they've made, just to avoid being irritated by their friends and family.
Is there a term for this in psychology or sociology? Are there other, better explanations for why people engage in persistent mocking behavior of 'lifestyle' changes? Why do people seem to have such a problem with other people changing their minds or their behaviors - even if they are in agreement with the changes?
Are there solid, evidence-based explanations for why people tend to mock, tease and generally be irritating to people who change themselves in minor ways?
Some examples:
*A friend wore all black from high school until about age 26, at which point he decided that he was bored with it, and it was annoying to keep having to buy new black shirts because the old ones faded, etc. Whenever he would wear a blue shirt, he would hear at least one comment similar to 'Whoa! Check out Mr. Blue Shirt! What happened to the Prince of Darkness?' and just generally making a big deal of this completely minor shirt color situation.
*I know several women who wear pants 99.9% of the time. Sometimes, one or the other of them will decide, for reasons of variety, to start incorporating more skirts into her daily wardrobe. She is greeted by "Whoa! Have you got a big date tonight/job interview/etc? All dressed up!"
*After 10 years of being a vegetarian, I have been considering adding some meat to my diet. Just putting forth the idea to people has started with the "Whoa! We knew we'd win you back over! Your ethics are just no match for deliciousness!"
I could probably come up with a few dozen similar examples, but the main thing is: the comments tend to be at best gently mocking, and they tend to persist for quite some time. (Hell, I've been a vegetarian for 10 years, and I *still* get asked - hilariously - if I want ribs or whatever for dinner.)
Now, most of these types of comments are innocuous enough on their face, but become really annoying. I don't really understand the purpose of them. I have two hypotheses:
*The mocking comments are a way of enforcing established social roles, so Friend (1) will remain 'the guy who always wears black,' Lady (2) will be 'the tomboy who never wears skirts' and I (3) will stay 'palindromic the vegetarian.' The teasing is then intended to prevent the change from sticking or occurring.
*They are intended to gently and humorously acknowledge a change seen in the person, but, as David Sedaris pointed out so well in 'The Santa Land Diaries.' people are not aware that they've made the same joke/comment as everyone else. They are honestly not aware that these types of jokes and comments can make people want to abandon whatever changes they've made, just to avoid being irritated by their friends and family.
Is there a term for this in psychology or sociology? Are there other, better explanations for why people engage in persistent mocking behavior of 'lifestyle' changes? Why do people seem to have such a problem with other people changing their minds or their behaviors - even if they are in agreement with the changes?
Another thought: I think the vegetarian thing is different from the other two and my response to that. There's a kind of implicit judgment on others in not eating meat OR just an unpleasant break with social norms. At some level, people are relieved to have normalcy restored. SO, in that case, I think they are making a little fun in order to keep people in line. It's been too long since social psych to think of the best term, but the Asch conformity experiments are vaguely related.
posted by parkerjackson at 5:22 AM on July 26, 2010
posted by parkerjackson at 5:22 AM on July 26, 2010
There are specific reasons for the vegetarian thing that might not apply to the others. Meat-eaters can get very defensive about their diet by the mere idea that other people are vegetarians. Thus, when you stop being vegetarian, they might (a) see it as a victory for themselves or (b) see it as proof that "aha, so you were wrong all along!"
Another possibility is that they're not so much mocking you as they mocking themselves, or mocking the idea of hedonism in general (the reference to how "deliciousness" wins out). People like to make fun of their own behaviors that are considered "bad" -- but not "too" bad. For instance, when I worked in a cafe, I noticed that customers would often gently make fun of their own caffeine habit. ("I have to get my caffeine habit! I'm going to be wired!") Again, this signals: "Oh, yeah, I know it's 'bad' -- but it's not so bad, otherwise I wouldn't be able to make fun of it."
posted by Jaltcoh at 5:23 AM on July 26, 2010
Another possibility is that they're not so much mocking you as they mocking themselves, or mocking the idea of hedonism in general (the reference to how "deliciousness" wins out). People like to make fun of their own behaviors that are considered "bad" -- but not "too" bad. For instance, when I worked in a cafe, I noticed that customers would often gently make fun of their own caffeine habit. ("I have to get my caffeine habit! I'm going to be wired!") Again, this signals: "Oh, yeah, I know it's 'bad' -- but it's not so bad, otherwise I wouldn't be able to make fun of it."
posted by Jaltcoh at 5:23 AM on July 26, 2010
When a person tends to do something for a very long time, they will become identified with whatever it is. It'll be part of another person's constructed identity of that person. When that person suddenly changes it, it will be surprising and invoke commentary. It's just human nature. It's not some psychological attack to prevent the change that provoked the comment.
posted by Atreides at 5:26 AM on July 26, 2010 [18 favorites]
posted by Atreides at 5:26 AM on July 26, 2010 [18 favorites]
Verbal sanctioning can be used for norm enforcement, and if norms are tied to socially meaningful roles, you might expect that. But I don't necessarily think what's going on here; I think that most people are just pointing out something that has obviously changed and are (attempting to) be humorous about it. Secondly, many people *want* their change to be acknowledged; imagine if you bought an entirely new wardrobe or completely changed your hairstyle and no one commented on it, humorously or not. It would feel very strange and you might wonder if anyone notices you at all; even though we change things for ourselves, we also often (implicitly) do it for others as well.
Thirdly, humans do not like uncertainty or dissonance; so, when we see something that is clearly out of line with our expectations, it gives us pause and a way of dealing with that is pointing it out. Think about how many politicians have been accused of being flip-floppers even if they have ostensibly honestly changed their mind about an important issue. We often value consistency over honesty. Finally, people may be using humor awkwardly to try and probe at the underlying causes for the sudden changes. In your examples, these changes have all been to very established lifestyle choices; people's identities often come to be associated with these lifestyle choices and a sudden change may signal that there are other changes afoot.
posted by proj at 5:28 AM on July 26, 2010 [2 favorites]
Thirdly, humans do not like uncertainty or dissonance; so, when we see something that is clearly out of line with our expectations, it gives us pause and a way of dealing with that is pointing it out. Think about how many politicians have been accused of being flip-floppers even if they have ostensibly honestly changed their mind about an important issue. We often value consistency over honesty. Finally, people may be using humor awkwardly to try and probe at the underlying causes for the sudden changes. In your examples, these changes have all been to very established lifestyle choices; people's identities often come to be associated with these lifestyle choices and a sudden change may signal that there are other changes afoot.
posted by proj at 5:28 AM on July 26, 2010 [2 favorites]
I don't think they're trying to enforce social roles - they're just trying to suss out what you are saying with your new appearance. For example, when someone sees you eating fish, they might ask you about your vegetarianism in a jokey way to determine if you're a full blown carnivore, a pescatarian, or just experimenting. They're curious. When your friend stops wearing all black, it's a legitimate question if something dramatic happened and he has completely given up his goth-y ways and wants to join the office fantasy football league, or he's still gloomy Joe in a different colored shirt. It's a form of friendly small talk, and I think you're doing yourself a disservice reading all sorts of negative implications into it.
posted by fermezporte at 5:30 AM on July 26, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by fermezporte at 5:30 AM on July 26, 2010 [3 favorites]
Perhaps the better question is "What is the explanation for disingenuity and churlishness?" The people in the examples you've given are, in my mind, just trying to make conversation.
I find people who find that to be "mocking, teasing, or generally being irritating" to be, well, irritating. What, precisely, is the problem with a "Wow, nice dress -- going somewhere?"
posted by kmennie at 5:32 AM on July 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
I find people who find that to be "mocking, teasing, or generally being irritating" to be, well, irritating. What, precisely, is the problem with a "Wow, nice dress -- going somewhere?"
posted by kmennie at 5:32 AM on July 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
"I have often noticed that we are inclined to endow our friends with the stability of type that literary characters acquire in the reader's mind. No matter how many times we reopen King Lear, never shall we find the good king banging his tankard in high revelry, all woes forgotten, at a jolly reunion with all three daughters and their lapdogs. Never will Emma rally, revived by the sympathetic salts in Flaubert's father's timely tear. Whatever evolution this or that popular character has gone through between the book covers, his fate is fixed in our minds, and, similarly, we expect our friends to follow this or that logical and conventional pattern we have fixed for them. Thus X will never compose the immortal music that would clash with the second-rate symphonies he has accustomed us to. Y will never commit murder. Under no circumstances can Z ever betray us. We have it all arranged in our minds, and the less often we see a particular person the more satisfying it is to check how obediently he conforms to our notion of him every time we hear of him. Any deviation in the fates we have ordained would strike us as not only anomalous but unethical. We would prefer not to have known at all our neighbor, the retired hot-dog stand operator, if it turns out he has just produced the greatest book of poetry his age has seen."
-- Vladimir Nabokov, Lolita
posted by stuck on an island at 5:38 AM on July 26, 2010 [56 favorites]
-- Vladimir Nabokov, Lolita
posted by stuck on an island at 5:38 AM on July 26, 2010 [56 favorites]
Honestly, it's because in the examples you describe, the people were being boring and everyone around them knew it, hence the gentle mocking when the person decided to actually change.
In short, they're fine with you changing, but to so consistently be one way is often viewed as unnatural or unhealthy.
posted by new brand day at 5:39 AM on July 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
In short, they're fine with you changing, but to so consistently be one way is often viewed as unnatural or unhealthy.
posted by new brand day at 5:39 AM on July 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
Would you really like it if you made a change and no one noticed? Wouldn't that just make you feel like no one was paying attention to you?
posted by Jacqueline at 5:39 AM on July 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Jacqueline at 5:39 AM on July 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
Oh, good, an opportunity to quote Nabokov. From Lolita:
"I have often noticed that we are inclined to endow our friends with the stability of type that literary characters acquire in the reader's mind. No matter how many times we reopen "King Lear", never shall we find the good king banging his tankard in high revelry, all woes forgotten, at a jolly reunion with all three daughters and their lapdogs. Never will Emma rally, revived by the sympathetic salts in Flaubert's father's timely tear. Whatever evolution this or that popular character has gone through between the book covers, his fate is fixed in our minds, and, similarly, we expect our friends to follow this or that logical and conventional pattern we have fixed for them. Thus X will never compose the immortal music that would clash with the second-rate symphonies he has accustomed us to. Y will never commit murder. Under no circumstances will Z ever betray us. We have it all arranged in our minds, and the less often we see a particular person the more satisfying it is to check how obediently he conforms to our notion of him every time we hear of him. Any deviation in the fates we have ordained would strike us as not only anomalous but unethical. We would prefer not to have known our neighbor, the retired hot-dog stand operator, if it turns out he has just produced the greatest book of poetry his age has seen."
That about nails it, I think.
posted by Diablevert at 5:43 AM on July 26, 2010 [3 favorites]
"I have often noticed that we are inclined to endow our friends with the stability of type that literary characters acquire in the reader's mind. No matter how many times we reopen "King Lear", never shall we find the good king banging his tankard in high revelry, all woes forgotten, at a jolly reunion with all three daughters and their lapdogs. Never will Emma rally, revived by the sympathetic salts in Flaubert's father's timely tear. Whatever evolution this or that popular character has gone through between the book covers, his fate is fixed in our minds, and, similarly, we expect our friends to follow this or that logical and conventional pattern we have fixed for them. Thus X will never compose the immortal music that would clash with the second-rate symphonies he has accustomed us to. Y will never commit murder. Under no circumstances will Z ever betray us. We have it all arranged in our minds, and the less often we see a particular person the more satisfying it is to check how obediently he conforms to our notion of him every time we hear of him. Any deviation in the fates we have ordained would strike us as not only anomalous but unethical. We would prefer not to have known our neighbor, the retired hot-dog stand operator, if it turns out he has just produced the greatest book of poetry his age has seen."
That about nails it, I think.
posted by Diablevert at 5:43 AM on July 26, 2010 [3 favorites]
Are there other, better explanations for why people engage in persistent mocking behavior of 'lifestyle' changes?
The prevalence of sarcasm as a method for people to interact with the world around them. If you're looking at people who do this kind of thing, chances are they're pretty sarcastic folks in general. Sarcasm is easy; meaningful discourse with colleagues isn't.
Why do people seem to have such a problem with other people changing their minds or their behaviors - even if they are in agreement with the changes?
I think you're overestimating how much people care about others' life choices. They're making a comment for the sake of noticing it, it's not some overarching need for people to conform to social roles. The carelessness they take in being liberal with their mockery is based on lack of care, not based on malicious intent.
posted by Hiker at 5:44 AM on July 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
The prevalence of sarcasm as a method for people to interact with the world around them. If you're looking at people who do this kind of thing, chances are they're pretty sarcastic folks in general. Sarcasm is easy; meaningful discourse with colleagues isn't.
Why do people seem to have such a problem with other people changing their minds or their behaviors - even if they are in agreement with the changes?
I think you're overestimating how much people care about others' life choices. They're making a comment for the sake of noticing it, it's not some overarching need for people to conform to social roles. The carelessness they take in being liberal with their mockery is based on lack of care, not based on malicious intent.
posted by Hiker at 5:44 AM on July 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
I agree with the above answers and will add that just because someone comments on a change that he or she has observed, this does not mean that this person did not want you to change. They are just observing that there is a change. It's an obvious thing to observe and that is how conversation is done; they are interested in you or at least pretend to be interested, so if you have changed, that would seem to be worth discussing in some way. Of course, some people may do this to excess, but conversation tends to be like that. Conversation is not a book, that has been carefully edited to avoid excess repetition. It is spontaneous and hence, a bit sloppy. Sometimes extremely sloppy. Not everyone is good at making conversation.
posted by grizzled at 5:47 AM on July 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by grizzled at 5:47 AM on July 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
Human beings are genetically inclined to look for change in the environment. (I have no proof, but it makes sense to me.) Change in the environment might mean either a predator coming to attack us, a natural disaster headed our way or maybe some kind of prey animal that we could eat. Keeping our eyes out for change kept us alive.
Change after ten years will stand out. With reference to the guy who changed his shirt colour, something in the environment altered, and the people who questioned him about his blue shirt were trying to work out where he fit into the scheme of things.
They were also being a bit rude by making such a big deal out of it, but that's a separate issue. If this is the only time that the pants-wearing-women get questioned about their clothes and then get told that they're "all dressed up", that implies that people usually think that she's dressing down. It's a sign of approval from the other person, but it's still slightly off.
posted by Solomon at 5:49 AM on July 26, 2010
Change after ten years will stand out. With reference to the guy who changed his shirt colour, something in the environment altered, and the people who questioned him about his blue shirt were trying to work out where he fit into the scheme of things.
They were also being a bit rude by making such a big deal out of it, but that's a separate issue. If this is the only time that the pants-wearing-women get questioned about their clothes and then get told that they're "all dressed up", that implies that people usually think that she's dressing down. It's a sign of approval from the other person, but it's still slightly off.
posted by Solomon at 5:49 AM on July 26, 2010
They are honestly not aware that these types of jokes and comments can make people want to abandon whatever changes they've made, just to avoid being irritated by their friends and family.
Unfortunately this is true a great deal of the time. I've heard from countless friends who made efforts to eat healthy and lose weight, only to have family knock them for not eating the way they used to (e.g. the junk food they're used to consuming,) and trying to become "anorexic." I think it's sickening how people can make such dismissive comments even in jest. This is why some people who are in need of change never do so.
posted by Anima Mundi at 5:49 AM on July 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
Unfortunately this is true a great deal of the time. I've heard from countless friends who made efforts to eat healthy and lose weight, only to have family knock them for not eating the way they used to (e.g. the junk food they're used to consuming,) and trying to become "anorexic." I think it's sickening how people can make such dismissive comments even in jest. This is why some people who are in need of change never do so.
posted by Anima Mundi at 5:49 AM on July 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
It's your second hypothesis, and it occurs no matter what people do. People are just observing and trying to make conversation, and they tend to comment on the obvious, and they just don't realize that they're saying the same thing everyone else has said. They think they're being cute and friendly.
As an example, last week, someone was teasing me about how I must be a secret party animal because I'm fairly taciturn. She was trying to be friendly, but man I have heard that a million times before and it's tiresome. There are probably plenty of subjects that she and I could discuss in depth, but she went for what she knew about me - which happens to be what most people know about me.
Wearing all black is an unusual practice, especially for years. If someone around me wore nothing but black, I'd assume it was some sort of gimmick. If they suddenly abandoned it, I'd wonder about the change. I don't care what they wear, I'd just want to know what's going on.
posted by Metroid Baby at 5:58 AM on July 26, 2010
As an example, last week, someone was teasing me about how I must be a secret party animal because I'm fairly taciturn. She was trying to be friendly, but man I have heard that a million times before and it's tiresome. There are probably plenty of subjects that she and I could discuss in depth, but she went for what she knew about me - which happens to be what most people know about me.
Wearing all black is an unusual practice, especially for years. If someone around me wore nothing but black, I'd assume it was some sort of gimmick. If they suddenly abandoned it, I'd wonder about the change. I don't care what they wear, I'd just want to know what's going on.
posted by Metroid Baby at 5:58 AM on July 26, 2010
Some additional thoughts: you didn't say if your friends were irritated/put off/wanted to go back on their change by the comments, just that you observed those comments and felt that way. It could be that you're just overly sensitive and that most people don't care that much about this. Second, as I stated above, humans love consistency and hate dissonance and inconsistency. So, when people point out to us that we're changing a long-established pattern of behavior (that may be associated with our identity), not only are they trying to suss out why the change has occurred, but it also may activate in ourselves a sense of inconsistency which may be why you feel uncomfortable. In other words, you've told yourself "this is a minor change I don't see what the big deal is" (which may be true or may be a little bit of self-deception that helps you change a long-held view or behavior) but when others act like it's at least worth commenting on, it signals to your brain that your perception of your attitude/behavior change and others' perceptions are not in line and that troubles you.
posted by proj at 6:15 AM on July 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by proj at 6:15 AM on July 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
To expand on what Hiker said, I think people talk about it because it's polite to notice when people change, it's interesting, and it's conversational. It would be insulting if they did NOT notice your new haircut or dietary habits.
As to the "teasing, mocking, tone" that is something different. There are different ways to bring it up. You can say, "I notice you got your hair cut." Person listening will then think you are trying to imply it does not look good by not saying "nice haircut" as is the standard social protocol. If a vegetarian starts eating meat, you can say, "I notice you started eating meat. Why? Just curious." Indeed, some people probably do approach it that way, and then you can have a nice little moral discussion. But I would think most people feel embarassed for having to bring it up, especially when it's a change that implies a change in beliefs or lifestyle. "So, you're pregnant." "So you're Catholic now" In such a case, they might try to be glib or say something wittier than "So I notice" that also kind of lets you take the ball from there. I mean, give people some credit. I would say the jokiness is really them pre-emptively trying to dance around what might be an awkward topic, while still telling you they notice the change. They might not want to say, "So you're a much happier person now and no longer believe in a personal creed you were passionate about for years. Instead of calling you a hypocrite bluntly, I'll just make a light jokey comment and let you explain yourself or not."
Be more self-deprecating. Just admit your previous self was wrong or ignorant. If it really is too personal to talk about, deflect gracefully. Problem solved.
posted by Nixy at 6:17 AM on July 26, 2010
As to the "teasing, mocking, tone" that is something different. There are different ways to bring it up. You can say, "I notice you got your hair cut." Person listening will then think you are trying to imply it does not look good by not saying "nice haircut" as is the standard social protocol. If a vegetarian starts eating meat, you can say, "I notice you started eating meat. Why? Just curious." Indeed, some people probably do approach it that way, and then you can have a nice little moral discussion. But I would think most people feel embarassed for having to bring it up, especially when it's a change that implies a change in beliefs or lifestyle. "So, you're pregnant." "So you're Catholic now" In such a case, they might try to be glib or say something wittier than "So I notice" that also kind of lets you take the ball from there. I mean, give people some credit. I would say the jokiness is really them pre-emptively trying to dance around what might be an awkward topic, while still telling you they notice the change. They might not want to say, "So you're a much happier person now and no longer believe in a personal creed you were passionate about for years. Instead of calling you a hypocrite bluntly, I'll just make a light jokey comment and let you explain yourself or not."
Be more self-deprecating. Just admit your previous self was wrong or ignorant. If it really is too personal to talk about, deflect gracefully. Problem solved.
posted by Nixy at 6:17 AM on July 26, 2010
It might also be worth keeping in mind that, while you may have a dozen people making lame quips about your change through the course of the day, for each of those individuals it was merely one small comment and then never thought of again. It doesn't occur to them that they might be the fifth person to make the same wearisome joke to you that morning, contributing to a cumulative process that makes you feel judged and annoyed.
posted by Lou Stuells at 6:23 AM on July 26, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by Lou Stuells at 6:23 AM on July 26, 2010 [5 favorites]
Many, if not most people, are not particularly clever. Spotting a change and remarking on it in a humorous fashion is an easy joke to make and a surprising number of people will think themselves very clever for doing something that predictable. Just as having a surname with a very obvious joke associated doesn't stop 99% of the people you meet from making that joke.
Think about how much of your daily conversations with others run on predictable patterns; few people can surprise you with their opinions, insights, and choice of topics.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:32 AM on July 26, 2010 [5 favorites]
Think about how much of your daily conversations with others run on predictable patterns; few people can surprise you with their opinions, insights, and choice of topics.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:32 AM on July 26, 2010 [5 favorites]
Of course, an uncharitable interpretation might also be: "ohoho! I see you have abandoned your pigheaded attempt at dressing/eating like you're someone special, and you've become normal like us!"
But mostly, I think people are just being annoyingly jokey about what is not a minor change at all. I am surprised you find it minor.
It is a fallacy to assume that a) ribbing makes me so self conscious that I do not want to change, so b) people are ribbing me to make me not want to change.
posted by Omnomnom at 6:32 AM on July 26, 2010
But mostly, I think people are just being annoyingly jokey about what is not a minor change at all. I am surprised you find it minor.
It is a fallacy to assume that a) ribbing makes me so self conscious that I do not want to change, so b) people are ribbing me to make me not want to change.
posted by Omnomnom at 6:32 AM on July 26, 2010
I was on the "enforcing social roles" side of this once.
My roommate in college wore pants (usually jeans) and ironic shirts/hoodies 100% of the time. One day she wore a skirt and a plain-colored shirt. I was flabbergasted. Here I had been living with her, day in, day out, for going on 9 months, and I barely even seen her dressed up, let alone in a skirt. I didn't even know she owned a skirt. She was also very outspokenly un-girly, so I was very surprised when I saw her.
I said, "[roommate], what's up with the skirt?! Are you going somewhere today?" and she got super-pissed. I had no idea why. SO confused. And a few minutes later when some dorm friends came by to get breakfast with us and saw her in the skirt, they all said the same type of thing. It didn't come from a place of "GET BACK IN YOUR PANTS WHERE WE EXPECT YOU TO BE, LADY," but rather, "did someone die? is someone getting married? do you have a job interview?" because in our minds something MAJOR had to have happened to get her to wear something that previously had been so reviled. She got pissed at all of us and stormed off.
Over the next couple weeks it became clear that she wanted to change the way she dressed and start incorporating prettier clothes into her wardrobe. She had been secretly buying skirts and hoarding them in her closet waiting for a seemingly innocuous time to bust them out. She got so defensive and upset because she was apprhensive about the change and breaking out of her comfort zone for the first time. None of us, of course, CARED that she wanted to dress nicer now, but the initial change was very, very surprising.
posted by phunniemee at 6:33 AM on July 26, 2010 [10 favorites]
My roommate in college wore pants (usually jeans) and ironic shirts/hoodies 100% of the time. One day she wore a skirt and a plain-colored shirt. I was flabbergasted. Here I had been living with her, day in, day out, for going on 9 months, and I barely even seen her dressed up, let alone in a skirt. I didn't even know she owned a skirt. She was also very outspokenly un-girly, so I was very surprised when I saw her.
I said, "[roommate], what's up with the skirt?! Are you going somewhere today?" and she got super-pissed. I had no idea why. SO confused. And a few minutes later when some dorm friends came by to get breakfast with us and saw her in the skirt, they all said the same type of thing. It didn't come from a place of "GET BACK IN YOUR PANTS WHERE WE EXPECT YOU TO BE, LADY," but rather, "did someone die? is someone getting married? do you have a job interview?" because in our minds something MAJOR had to have happened to get her to wear something that previously had been so reviled. She got pissed at all of us and stormed off.
Over the next couple weeks it became clear that she wanted to change the way she dressed and start incorporating prettier clothes into her wardrobe. She had been secretly buying skirts and hoarding them in her closet waiting for a seemingly innocuous time to bust them out. She got so defensive and upset because she was apprhensive about the change and breaking out of her comfort zone for the first time. None of us, of course, CARED that she wanted to dress nicer now, but the initial change was very, very surprising.
posted by phunniemee at 6:33 AM on July 26, 2010 [10 favorites]
Wierd. This exact thing happened to me last week.
I'm a pants-wearing chick at work - mostly because at a moment's notice I might have to pull on some boots and do some grubby thing out in the middle of nowhere. It's not a regular part of my job but it's a possible part of my job, and I've had it happen too many times where I've come dressed nicely in hose and a skirt and a nice blouse, only to have to run out unexpectedly and be in the mud for two hours. Not fun. So, pants it is.
Well it's summer and it's Florida and it's fucking hot here. So last week I wore a lightweight cotton skirt, mud trips be damned. I caught so much shit for that skirt that I'm pretty well innocculated from it ever happening again. I knew it would not pass un-noticed, but all fucking day long I got passive aggression from one person in particular (a woman who works in my office), that other people were noticing and telling her to shut it, on my behalf.
She wasn't complimenting me. She wasn't trying to be nice. She was trying to make me feel weird, like I owed everyone an explanation. I can tell the difference between condescention and civility. It was the former.
Is there a term for this? Yes. It's called being a passive aggressive a-hole.
posted by contessa at 6:34 AM on July 26, 2010
I'm a pants-wearing chick at work - mostly because at a moment's notice I might have to pull on some boots and do some grubby thing out in the middle of nowhere. It's not a regular part of my job but it's a possible part of my job, and I've had it happen too many times where I've come dressed nicely in hose and a skirt and a nice blouse, only to have to run out unexpectedly and be in the mud for two hours. Not fun. So, pants it is.
Well it's summer and it's Florida and it's fucking hot here. So last week I wore a lightweight cotton skirt, mud trips be damned. I caught so much shit for that skirt that I'm pretty well innocculated from it ever happening again. I knew it would not pass un-noticed, but all fucking day long I got passive aggression from one person in particular (a woman who works in my office), that other people were noticing and telling her to shut it, on my behalf.
She wasn't complimenting me. She wasn't trying to be nice. She was trying to make me feel weird, like I owed everyone an explanation. I can tell the difference between condescention and civility. It was the former.
Is there a term for this? Yes. It's called being a passive aggressive a-hole.
posted by contessa at 6:34 AM on July 26, 2010
So now you're going to not wear a skirt again because some lady was mean to you.
Which reinforces to the mean lady that if she is mean, people do what she wants them to do.
Mean lady wins.
Don't let mean lady win. Wear another skirt.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:41 AM on July 26, 2010 [16 favorites]
Which reinforces to the mean lady that if she is mean, people do what she wants them to do.
Mean lady wins.
Don't let mean lady win. Wear another skirt.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:41 AM on July 26, 2010 [16 favorites]
Is there a term for this? Yes. It's called being a passive aggressive a-hole.
Also this is not passive aggressive. It's just being an asshole.
posted by proj at 6:43 AM on July 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
Also this is not passive aggressive. It's just being an asshole.
posted by proj at 6:43 AM on July 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
This is not "solid" or "evidence-based", but I think people (some more than others) like to put those around them in boxes. If you know where everyone else stands, it's easier to know where you stand, which makes you feel safe. When an unexpected change in that line-up occurs, it throws everything off, and it's threatening.
So for example the guy who wears black. Other people might think, maybe not even consciously, "He only wears black. He's weird. I'm cooler than he is." But then dude shows up in blue, and other people are like, "Oh no! What if I'm really not cooler than he is? What if he has the potential to be just as cool as me?! Aaaahhh!"
Making comments is the minor (and yes, very annoying!) response to this, but I've also seen people get into real disagreements or even stop being someone's friend because of changes in behavior that go against expectations. Think about how many people never try to change or improve themselves at all. For a lot of people, change is really unsettling.
posted by DestinationUnknown at 6:50 AM on July 26, 2010 [2 favorites]
So for example the guy who wears black. Other people might think, maybe not even consciously, "He only wears black. He's weird. I'm cooler than he is." But then dude shows up in blue, and other people are like, "Oh no! What if I'm really not cooler than he is? What if he has the potential to be just as cool as me?! Aaaahhh!"
Making comments is the minor (and yes, very annoying!) response to this, but I've also seen people get into real disagreements or even stop being someone's friend because of changes in behavior that go against expectations. Think about how many people never try to change or improve themselves at all. For a lot of people, change is really unsettling.
posted by DestinationUnknown at 6:50 AM on July 26, 2010 [2 favorites]
I don't think this only applies to changes in behaviors or personalities.
Haven't you noticed that every time you reference a certain place or thing, people also will tend to make similar types of small talk?
I find that every time I bring up the fact that I went to X Northern College, folks inevitably say "wow, cold enough for ya?" or "guess you like snow!" or "how bout that snowy weather?" or something equally inane.
Small talk is small talk. There's no malicious intent. If you don't like small talk, better not engage in social interactions with other human beings... it's kind of what we do. :-)
posted by treehorn+bunny at 6:56 AM on July 26, 2010
Haven't you noticed that every time you reference a certain place or thing, people also will tend to make similar types of small talk?
I find that every time I bring up the fact that I went to X Northern College, folks inevitably say "wow, cold enough for ya?" or "guess you like snow!" or "how bout that snowy weather?" or something equally inane.
Small talk is small talk. There's no malicious intent. If you don't like small talk, better not engage in social interactions with other human beings... it's kind of what we do. :-)
posted by treehorn+bunny at 6:56 AM on July 26, 2010
Terry Pratchett has a nice analogy for this. He calls it Crab Bucket.
posted by Happy Dave at 7:00 AM on July 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Happy Dave at 7:00 AM on July 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
Is there a term for this in psychology or sociology? Are there other, better explanations for why people engage in persistent mocking behavior of 'lifestyle' changes? Why do people seem to have such a problem with other people changing their minds or their behaviors - even if they are in agreement with the changes?
My first instinct is that people might feel threatened when others improve themselves, because they're accustomed to "the way things are." This is particularly troublesome when the commenter has a vested (rather than passing) interest in the way things are.
Another idea is that they have no clue how scared other people are about putting their skirts, blue shirts, meat-eating, etc. on display. Anyone who's going to make a loudmouth comment is not the kind of person who feels shy about debuting a new look, or irritated when someone else takes notice. They are the kind of person who loves attention.
---------------------
In terms of actually dealing with it... I'd pick a semi-positive response that acknowledges that they (probably) didn't mean to be rude, but still gets the point across that you've already heard their comment a billion times and there's nothing to look at here, move along, move along, and finally puts the attention back on them (where they want it).
"Yeah, I've been hearing that all morning! I had no idea my skirt would be so interesting. I'm just switching things up a bit to try and get out of the usual routine. You should try it, I've found it's a lot of fun! I liked your necklace the other day... etc. etc."
posted by cranberrymonger at 7:06 AM on July 26, 2010
My first instinct is that people might feel threatened when others improve themselves, because they're accustomed to "the way things are." This is particularly troublesome when the commenter has a vested (rather than passing) interest in the way things are.
Another idea is that they have no clue how scared other people are about putting their skirts, blue shirts, meat-eating, etc. on display. Anyone who's going to make a loudmouth comment is not the kind of person who feels shy about debuting a new look, or irritated when someone else takes notice. They are the kind of person who loves attention.
---------------------
In terms of actually dealing with it... I'd pick a semi-positive response that acknowledges that they (probably) didn't mean to be rude, but still gets the point across that you've already heard their comment a billion times and there's nothing to look at here, move along, move along, and finally puts the attention back on them (where they want it).
"Yeah, I've been hearing that all morning! I had no idea my skirt would be so interesting. I'm just switching things up a bit to try and get out of the usual routine. You should try it, I've found it's a lot of fun! I liked your necklace the other day... etc. etc."
posted by cranberrymonger at 7:06 AM on July 26, 2010
Life is boring sometimes. It's hard to think of things to say. Any new thing is like a tiny imperfection in a glass of supersaturated sugar - the crystal -- the conversation --- forms there rather than anywhere else. We imbue these stupid utterances with some emotion, some enthusiasm or hatred, because it's socially dangerous to express our real enthusiasms or hatreds.
Also, we don't have patterns built in for non-judgmental remarking, so not only is one less likely to think of something non-judgmental to say, when one does try, it sounds odd.
Further, it's likely to be interpreted as judgmental (i.e., encouraging the object to stay in his or her "box") whether it's intended that way or not.
"I notice you're wearing a dress today. Why?" sounds downright accusatory, when, semantically, it's neutral. Another attempt: "I notice you're wearing a dress today. It looks nice. What's the occasion?" can seem either to be encouraging dress-wearing (it looks nice, as compared to the man-trash you usually wear) or discouraging dress-wearing (there must be an occasion, or else someone of your sartorial integrity wouldn't deviate from the straight-legged-and-narrow).
In reality, these remarks are often someone's attempt to say "I notice you! I notice how you usually are, and I notice there's a change, and I care enough to remark on it." They do often carry an undertone of judgment, but I also think the judgment itself sometimes isn't intended before the speaker starts speaking; it forms with the speech, and then the speaker is somehow committed to it.
It may, in some cases, be easy to turn the mood of the exchange around with a lighthearted, self-confident response, but you'd need to be unusually self-possessed to think quickly enough to control the conversation that way.
posted by amtho at 7:13 AM on July 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
Also, we don't have patterns built in for non-judgmental remarking, so not only is one less likely to think of something non-judgmental to say, when one does try, it sounds odd.
Further, it's likely to be interpreted as judgmental (i.e., encouraging the object to stay in his or her "box") whether it's intended that way or not.
"I notice you're wearing a dress today. Why?" sounds downright accusatory, when, semantically, it's neutral. Another attempt: "I notice you're wearing a dress today. It looks nice. What's the occasion?" can seem either to be encouraging dress-wearing (it looks nice, as compared to the man-trash you usually wear) or discouraging dress-wearing (there must be an occasion, or else someone of your sartorial integrity wouldn't deviate from the straight-legged-and-narrow).
In reality, these remarks are often someone's attempt to say "I notice you! I notice how you usually are, and I notice there's a change, and I care enough to remark on it." They do often carry an undertone of judgment, but I also think the judgment itself sometimes isn't intended before the speaker starts speaking; it forms with the speech, and then the speaker is somehow committed to it.
It may, in some cases, be easy to turn the mood of the exchange around with a lighthearted, self-confident response, but you'd need to be unusually self-possessed to think quickly enough to control the conversation that way.
posted by amtho at 7:13 AM on July 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'll just add that when people feel free to comment, then the change is either positive or neutral. They're not going out of the way to pick on you.
If the change is drastic or scary, then people feel less free to comment. For example, when my hair fell out thanks to chemotherapy, almost no one said a word about it. It was such a relief when a colleague teased me that my head scarf made me look like little Stevie from the E Street band-- it took my baldness back into the realm of No Big Deal.
posted by pickypicky at 7:19 AM on July 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
If the change is drastic or scary, then people feel less free to comment. For example, when my hair fell out thanks to chemotherapy, almost no one said a word about it. It was such a relief when a colleague teased me that my head scarf made me look like little Stevie from the E Street band-- it took my baldness back into the realm of No Big Deal.
posted by pickypicky at 7:19 AM on July 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
Meat-eaters can get very defensive about their diet by the mere idea that other people are vegetarians. Thus, when you stop being vegetarian, they might (a) see it as a victory for themselves or (b) see it as proof that "aha, so you were wrong all along!"
There are also people--not all people, not most people--who take this tack when it comes to other people's wardrobes. Those of you who are baffled by why some tomboyish women are irritated by people's comments on their skirts have probably not grown up with well-intentioned mothers who would see a skirt as a major victory for themselves.
posted by corey flood at 7:21 AM on July 26, 2010 [3 favorites]
There are also people--not all people, not most people--who take this tack when it comes to other people's wardrobes. Those of you who are baffled by why some tomboyish women are irritated by people's comments on their skirts have probably not grown up with well-intentioned mothers who would see a skirt as a major victory for themselves.
posted by corey flood at 7:21 AM on July 26, 2010 [3 favorites]
Disclaimer: I'm about to get all Evolutionary-Psych on you. In my view, that field is awesome for generating interesting hypotheses. People sometimes confuse those hypotheses are proofs. I'm not doing that. But to keep from boring you with a bunch of "ifs" and "maybes," I'll just write the following as if it's fact.
Humans have evolved two useful but conflicting ways of dealing with change: lusting after it and fleeing from it. We've evolved these responses because lack of either would doom us. If we blindly embraced any change, we'd soon die from leaping before looking. If we never embraced any change, we'd never grow, and we'd never solve all kinds of problems. This struggle may be at it's purest when we agonize over whether to put a potentially dangerous (but also potentially life-saving) drug into human trial. It's easy to see how both caution and risk-taking are worth considering.
On a more macro ("Social Darwinism") level, cultures have nurtured both people who are afraid of change and people who are gunning for it. We need people who say things like, "Hey, I know it's going to be a bit weird, be we need to let women into universities." We also need people who say things like, "Let's stop and think for a second before we completely stop using fossil fuels and build hundreds of nuclear power plants all over the country."
The ideal person would be one who carefully weighs all possible changes and, based on the evidence and a shrewd calculation of potential risks vs. potential rewards, decides to leap off the diving board or to stay by the side of the pool and read a "Tom Clancy" novel. But this even-handedness seems to be really, really hard for most minds. It's literally impossible to do this in the case of a single contemplated change. You can't simultaneously advocate neutrality AND going to war, going to human trial with a cancer drug AND not testing it on humans.
But though most of us (all of us?) are fearful of some kinds of change and excited about others, people tend to be generally disposed towards change or not. We sometimes call these personality types Liberals and Conservatives. Your question is, in a sense, a Liberal's cry of "Why are people so fucking conservative?" A Conservative could have posted the opposite question: "Why do people want to change things all the the fucking time?" And he would be just as "right" (pun intended) about the state of the world as you are. You and he would just be noticing different trends.
In my darker moments, and I have to admit that I have more of these when thinking about this subject than I have lighter moments, I cringe at the bile flung by Liberals at Conservatives and vice versa.
I wish they could both see that both views are necessary -- that if we totally rid the world of "the enemy," the world would collapse. We'd say, "Hey, let's all leap into out space without wearing space suits -- just to see what would happen!" Or we'd say, "Let's never read a book. You never know when whatever's on the next page might upset us."
In any case, from a practical standpoint, neither Liberalism nor Conservativism is going away. They are both human archetypes. Acting as if one day the world will be rid of Conservatives (or Liberals) because you hate them is like acting as if one day the word will be rid of women (or men) because you're sick of the battle between the sexes. It ain't gonna happen. So it's much smarter to look for ways to coexist.
In my darkest dark moments, I think that's impossible. That it's the Human Condition to both house Liberals and Conservatives on the same planet AND for them to always be at each other's throats. No Exit. Certainly, it's pretty hard to see how "More government spending!" and "Less government spending!" (Not to mention "Gay marriage: yes!" and "Gay marriage: no!") can ever happily coexist.''
In my -- I was going to say lighter moments, but... -- shades-of-gray moments, I see this endless struggle as terribly unfortunate but necessary. In other words, you can imagine a single psyche in which cautious and adventurous urges duke it out to decide whether to stay home and eat spaghetti or go bungee jumping. And you can also imagine a "planetary psyche" doing this. Maybe, since we can't expect people to be both Liberal and Conservative at the same time -- and since both voices are needed -- the only healthy possibility is to have those voice coming from different people and for those voices to fight each other in the case of each decision. And for one voice to emerge victorious. Until the next battle.
In some countries, this is called Revolution. In others, thankfully, it's called Politics and Elections. Or it's called "People shouting at each other on CNN."
This struggle exists in every strata of culture: international, national, local, personal. You are experiencing it on the personal level, amongst your friends. I bet that as often as it happens that your friends mock people who change their shirts, they also mock people who are "stubborn."
I'm sorry, but since you live on planet Earth, for the rest of your life, you are doomed to hear "Why does George always INSIST on wearing that shirt?" You are also doomed to hear "Whoa! George changed his shirt! Let's call him Mr. New Shirt!"
posted by grumblebee at 7:42 AM on July 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
Humans have evolved two useful but conflicting ways of dealing with change: lusting after it and fleeing from it. We've evolved these responses because lack of either would doom us. If we blindly embraced any change, we'd soon die from leaping before looking. If we never embraced any change, we'd never grow, and we'd never solve all kinds of problems. This struggle may be at it's purest when we agonize over whether to put a potentially dangerous (but also potentially life-saving) drug into human trial. It's easy to see how both caution and risk-taking are worth considering.
On a more macro ("Social Darwinism") level, cultures have nurtured both people who are afraid of change and people who are gunning for it. We need people who say things like, "Hey, I know it's going to be a bit weird, be we need to let women into universities." We also need people who say things like, "Let's stop and think for a second before we completely stop using fossil fuels and build hundreds of nuclear power plants all over the country."
The ideal person would be one who carefully weighs all possible changes and, based on the evidence and a shrewd calculation of potential risks vs. potential rewards, decides to leap off the diving board or to stay by the side of the pool and read a "Tom Clancy" novel. But this even-handedness seems to be really, really hard for most minds. It's literally impossible to do this in the case of a single contemplated change. You can't simultaneously advocate neutrality AND going to war, going to human trial with a cancer drug AND not testing it on humans.
But though most of us (all of us?) are fearful of some kinds of change and excited about others, people tend to be generally disposed towards change or not. We sometimes call these personality types Liberals and Conservatives. Your question is, in a sense, a Liberal's cry of "Why are people so fucking conservative?" A Conservative could have posted the opposite question: "Why do people want to change things all the the fucking time?" And he would be just as "right" (pun intended) about the state of the world as you are. You and he would just be noticing different trends.
In my darker moments, and I have to admit that I have more of these when thinking about this subject than I have lighter moments, I cringe at the bile flung by Liberals at Conservatives and vice versa.
I wish they could both see that both views are necessary -- that if we totally rid the world of "the enemy," the world would collapse. We'd say, "Hey, let's all leap into out space without wearing space suits -- just to see what would happen!" Or we'd say, "Let's never read a book. You never know when whatever's on the next page might upset us."
In any case, from a practical standpoint, neither Liberalism nor Conservativism is going away. They are both human archetypes. Acting as if one day the world will be rid of Conservatives (or Liberals) because you hate them is like acting as if one day the word will be rid of women (or men) because you're sick of the battle between the sexes. It ain't gonna happen. So it's much smarter to look for ways to coexist.
In my darkest dark moments, I think that's impossible. That it's the Human Condition to both house Liberals and Conservatives on the same planet AND for them to always be at each other's throats. No Exit. Certainly, it's pretty hard to see how "More government spending!" and "Less government spending!" (Not to mention "Gay marriage: yes!" and "Gay marriage: no!") can ever happily coexist.''
In my -- I was going to say lighter moments, but... -- shades-of-gray moments, I see this endless struggle as terribly unfortunate but necessary. In other words, you can imagine a single psyche in which cautious and adventurous urges duke it out to decide whether to stay home and eat spaghetti or go bungee jumping. And you can also imagine a "planetary psyche" doing this. Maybe, since we can't expect people to be both Liberal and Conservative at the same time -- and since both voices are needed -- the only healthy possibility is to have those voice coming from different people and for those voices to fight each other in the case of each decision. And for one voice to emerge victorious. Until the next battle.
In some countries, this is called Revolution. In others, thankfully, it's called Politics and Elections. Or it's called "People shouting at each other on CNN."
This struggle exists in every strata of culture: international, national, local, personal. You are experiencing it on the personal level, amongst your friends. I bet that as often as it happens that your friends mock people who change their shirts, they also mock people who are "stubborn."
I'm sorry, but since you live on planet Earth, for the rest of your life, you are doomed to hear "Why does George always INSIST on wearing that shirt?" You are also doomed to hear "Whoa! George changed his shirt! Let's call him Mr. New Shirt!"
posted by grumblebee at 7:42 AM on July 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I think the majority of comments & observations you get about wardrobe changes really are just small talk... It's easy to read more into them than there actually is because if you're trying something new your sensitivity to potential criticism is often a little bit heightened.
That being said, there is a certain type of person who makes outright mean comments when you showing up in an uncharacteristic outfit (whether dressed up or down, or just differently). I observed a lot of this during my weird clothing phase in high school, and eventually I put my finger on what exactly was going on: It sounds weird, but those people feel threatened. The simple act of changing your look demonstrates a level of self-confidence that people like this lack, and all the bluster and snark is their defensive reaction. Once you recognize this, it's really sort of pathetic and makes it pretty easy to shrug it off.
(See also: Man Unable To Wear Nice Clothes Without Everyone Asking Questions.)
posted by usonian at 7:50 AM on July 26, 2010
That being said, there is a certain type of person who makes outright mean comments when you showing up in an uncharacteristic outfit (whether dressed up or down, or just differently). I observed a lot of this during my weird clothing phase in high school, and eventually I put my finger on what exactly was going on: It sounds weird, but those people feel threatened. The simple act of changing your look demonstrates a level of self-confidence that people like this lack, and all the bluster and snark is their defensive reaction. Once you recognize this, it's really sort of pathetic and makes it pretty easy to shrug it off.
(See also: Man Unable To Wear Nice Clothes Without Everyone Asking Questions.)
posted by usonian at 7:50 AM on July 26, 2010
:::sigh::: "when you show up in an uncharacteristic outfit."
posted by usonian at 7:52 AM on July 26, 2010
posted by usonian at 7:52 AM on July 26, 2010
The simple act of changing your look demonstrates a level of self-confidence that people like this lack, and all the bluster and snark is their defensive reaction.
It's probably has more to do with someone breaking the pattern of consistency, be it for good or ill. It immediately draws people's attention.
posted by new brand day at 7:54 AM on July 26, 2010
It's probably has more to do with someone breaking the pattern of consistency, be it for good or ill. It immediately draws people's attention.
posted by new brand day at 7:54 AM on July 26, 2010
I think people do this mostly out of unconscious habit or good-natured teasing -- that is, a display of affection. I take it as this when it happens to me. Many people are simply in the habit of loudly expressing random things that they notice, especially when those things change suddenly, as long as they aren't obviously offensive in their social context at the moment. C'est la vie.
However, I am the kind of person who HATES this kind of attention. I genuinely would prefer to not have people notice when I make a change. Even something as simple as a haircut or a change of clothes. In fact, maybe ESPECIALLY those simple things. It makes me feel as though I am under scrutiny and constantly being judged.
To people very close to me, I can make this known diplomatically. As far as everyone else in my life (coworkers, mere acquaintances, perfect strangers), there's not much I can directly do, except choose how to respond.
My response is normally a simple and neutral "Yes, I did [make x change]" or "Thank you," if it's said in a complimentary way, and then immediately changing the subject. A lack of effusiveness or a response that indicates you want to discuss it with someone can sometimes send the message to people that you'd rather not hear these things. Or, at least, it can limit the observation to that one remark.
The idea that discomfort with loudly having your traits or changes pointed out to you is churlishness or whatever is remarkably rude and insensitive. People have different preferences in how they socialize and how people approach them. I wouldn't presume to find someone who enjoys and encourages this type of banter off-kilter in some way. Instead, I accept that people vary.
posted by Ouisch at 8:11 AM on July 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
However, I am the kind of person who HATES this kind of attention. I genuinely would prefer to not have people notice when I make a change. Even something as simple as a haircut or a change of clothes. In fact, maybe ESPECIALLY those simple things. It makes me feel as though I am under scrutiny and constantly being judged.
To people very close to me, I can make this known diplomatically. As far as everyone else in my life (coworkers, mere acquaintances, perfect strangers), there's not much I can directly do, except choose how to respond.
My response is normally a simple and neutral "Yes, I did [make x change]" or "Thank you," if it's said in a complimentary way, and then immediately changing the subject. A lack of effusiveness or a response that indicates you want to discuss it with someone can sometimes send the message to people that you'd rather not hear these things. Or, at least, it can limit the observation to that one remark.
The idea that discomfort with loudly having your traits or changes pointed out to you is churlishness or whatever is remarkably rude and insensitive. People have different preferences in how they socialize and how people approach them. I wouldn't presume to find someone who enjoys and encourages this type of banter off-kilter in some way. Instead, I accept that people vary.
posted by Ouisch at 8:11 AM on July 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'd also like to add that a defensive response to this kind of comment can provoke extra attention and teasing from those who are prone to it. That's why I think a neutral, brief response is best. It encourages people to just move on.
posted by Ouisch at 8:12 AM on July 26, 2010
posted by Ouisch at 8:12 AM on July 26, 2010
The simple act of changing your look demonstrates a level of self-confidence that people like this lack, and all the bluster and snark is their defensive reaction.
So you're saying that the person's original, consistent wardrobe (all black; no skirts; etc.) showed a lack of self-confidence? So then perhaps people are congratulating the person on their jump from being a self-obsessed insecure narcissist to being a more self-confident person who is able to wear a different type of clothing.
Or maybe the two aren't really related.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 8:12 AM on July 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
So you're saying that the person's original, consistent wardrobe (all black; no skirts; etc.) showed a lack of self-confidence? So then perhaps people are congratulating the person on their jump from being a self-obsessed insecure narcissist to being a more self-confident person who is able to wear a different type of clothing.
Or maybe the two aren't really related.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 8:12 AM on July 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
I once quit a restaurant job after working there for only 2 months. It was located alongside a marina.
On my last day, the guys tackled me, lifted me up, and threw me into the water.
"Wow," my friend said. "They must have really liked you."
"How do you figure? They threw me into the water."
"If they didn't like you, they wouldn't have cared. They wouldn't even have noticed you were leaving."
So that's why people say things when they notice changes. They like you enough to notice and comment. Why is it sarcastic? Because they want to be funny.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 9:42 AM on July 26, 2010 [2 favorites]
On my last day, the guys tackled me, lifted me up, and threw me into the water.
"Wow," my friend said. "They must have really liked you."
"How do you figure? They threw me into the water."
"If they didn't like you, they wouldn't have cared. They wouldn't even have noticed you were leaving."
So that's why people say things when they notice changes. They like you enough to notice and comment. Why is it sarcastic? Because they want to be funny.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 9:42 AM on July 26, 2010 [2 favorites]
Recently my glasses broke, so I've been wearing contact lenses until I have the time and money to buy a new pair of glasses. Lately I've been getting a lot of, "hey, you're not wearing your glasses!" comments. Some comment that they like this look better. Some have even commented that it's unusual because I'm known among my friends as "the guy with the glasses." Mostly they're just observing a difference. They may be wondering if there's some "reason" behind it (along with the broken glasses, in the summertime, it's easier for me to put on and remove sunglasses when I have my contacts). Mostly they're trying to tell me they noticed and wondering if there's any specific reason behind it.
posted by deanc at 10:03 AM on July 26, 2010
posted by deanc at 10:03 AM on July 26, 2010
I think the obvious answer for your examples is that they're startled, and for some reason can't keep their mouth shut.
But I wanted to share something that I read recently, which covers other situations similar to what you describe. The author was talking about how your friends and family can drag you down, discourage you from trying new things, argue that you should just settle back into your life and "go with the flow" instead of trying to improve yourself. Why is this? Why do some people insist on acting like an anchor?
The author's theory is that it's because it reflects poorly on them, for not having done anything. If someone starts pushing themselves to do better, then the other person is only reminded how crappy their own life is.
Like in your wardrobe examples, maybe Alice mocks Bob's new blue shirt because it reminds Alice that she herself is still stuck in her old wardrobe rut. She may also mock Carol for wearing a skirt today, because she (Alice) sees Carol taking extra care with her appearance, which makes her feel frumpy by comparison.
posted by ErikaB at 11:21 AM on July 26, 2010
But I wanted to share something that I read recently, which covers other situations similar to what you describe. The author was talking about how your friends and family can drag you down, discourage you from trying new things, argue that you should just settle back into your life and "go with the flow" instead of trying to improve yourself. Why is this? Why do some people insist on acting like an anchor?
The author's theory is that it's because it reflects poorly on them, for not having done anything. If someone starts pushing themselves to do better, then the other person is only reminded how crappy their own life is.
Like in your wardrobe examples, maybe Alice mocks Bob's new blue shirt because it reminds Alice that she herself is still stuck in her old wardrobe rut. She may also mock Carol for wearing a skirt today, because she (Alice) sees Carol taking extra care with her appearance, which makes her feel frumpy by comparison.
posted by ErikaB at 11:21 AM on July 26, 2010
Wow, people must not notice me at all. I went from blonde to auburn and no one said a word. No one blinks an eye when I wear a skirt for the first time in three years, or sandals instead of my steel-toed shoes, or when I went from having hair halfway down my back to shoulder length.
It was enough to make me depressed that no one noticed. But I got over it.
I go out of my way to compliment people when they make a change, "I like your [hair/shirt/skirt/whatever]. It looks good on you/different/interesting." Just so they know that I've noticed the change and it doesn't make me feel uneasy.
Of course, if someone who generally wears jeans and a t-shirt shows up in a suit and tie, I'll ask them what the occasion is - that's too much of a change.
posted by patheral at 11:46 AM on July 26, 2010
It was enough to make me depressed that no one noticed. But I got over it.
I go out of my way to compliment people when they make a change, "I like your [hair/shirt/skirt/whatever]. It looks good on you/different/interesting." Just so they know that I've noticed the change and it doesn't make me feel uneasy.
Of course, if someone who generally wears jeans and a t-shirt shows up in a suit and tie, I'll ask them what the occasion is - that's too much of a change.
posted by patheral at 11:46 AM on July 26, 2010
Well it's summer and it's Florida and it's fucking hot here. So last week I wore a lightweight cotton skirt, mud trips be damned. I caught so much shit for that skirt that I'm pretty well innocculated from it ever happening again. .
Oh my gosh. In sixth grade, I decided to try wearing a skirt. I endured a solid day of "ohmygod Liz is wearing a skirt LOOK AT LIZ WEARING A SKIRT."
I didn't buy skirts or dresses again, except for church or dances, until sophomore year of college. Now I have a closet full of pretty dresses and I rue the time I lost. Wear what you like, and every time you wear a skirt, consider it as a 'fuck you' to that woman!
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:20 PM on July 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
Oh my gosh. In sixth grade, I decided to try wearing a skirt. I endured a solid day of "ohmygod Liz is wearing a skirt LOOK AT LIZ WEARING A SKIRT."
I didn't buy skirts or dresses again, except for church or dances, until sophomore year of college. Now I have a closet full of pretty dresses and I rue the time I lost. Wear what you like, and every time you wear a skirt, consider it as a 'fuck you' to that woman!
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:20 PM on July 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
Yeah, idk what it is about this behavior that irritates me. It just does. Probably because I shun unnecessary human social interaction. I very rarely comment on another person's change of appearance, unless I am absolutely 100% certain that they are the kind of person who welcomes such comments, and I care enough to interact with them.
So now you're going to not wear a skirt again because some lady was mean to you.
Which reinforces to the mean lady that if she is mean, people do what she wants them to do.
Yeah, I too am a jeans & tshirt wearer, pretty much every day in the office. The one time last summer it was hot enough for me to wear a skirt, I got so much shit for it that I wanted to stabbity at random. Instead, I spent the rest of the week defiantly in vintage couture, as an extremely fabulous fuck you.
posted by elizardbits at 12:28 PM on July 26, 2010 [2 favorites]
So now you're going to not wear a skirt again because some lady was mean to you.
Which reinforces to the mean lady that if she is mean, people do what she wants them to do.
Yeah, I too am a jeans & tshirt wearer, pretty much every day in the office. The one time last summer it was hot enough for me to wear a skirt, I got so much shit for it that I wanted to stabbity at random. Instead, I spent the rest of the week defiantly in vintage couture, as an extremely fabulous fuck you.
posted by elizardbits at 12:28 PM on July 26, 2010 [2 favorites]
People don't like change, and that's why we notice it. How we respond to change however, indicates many things about ourselves.
The people who respond in a mocking manner, may perceive the change as a threat, or may simply not know how to convey their thoughts about the change.
The people who respond in a more positive manner maybe recognize the change as a good thing, but are curious.
The people who don't respond at all may quite possibly register the change, and approve of it, and not feel the need for an explanation. Or they just may not even notice.
However, every individual can totally control how they react to these kinds of response, especially the more irritating ones.
Recently, I ran out of disposable contacts, and wore my glasses to work. A coworker said, "What's with the new look?" I told him my contacts had run out, and that was that. I did find it annoying, but I decided that most likely my glasses look pretty good on me, but my coworker isn't very direct with compliments, so ...
Another time, an ex-friend of mine saw me and commented on how long my hair had grown... !!!! I just told her, yes, it does that. It grows. And I figured, she doesn't know what to say to me so she's grasping for obvious things.
Go figure, people just don't know what to say.
posted by Locochona at 8:06 PM on July 26, 2010
The people who respond in a mocking manner, may perceive the change as a threat, or may simply not know how to convey their thoughts about the change.
The people who respond in a more positive manner maybe recognize the change as a good thing, but are curious.
The people who don't respond at all may quite possibly register the change, and approve of it, and not feel the need for an explanation. Or they just may not even notice.
However, every individual can totally control how they react to these kinds of response, especially the more irritating ones.
Recently, I ran out of disposable contacts, and wore my glasses to work. A coworker said, "What's with the new look?" I told him my contacts had run out, and that was that. I did find it annoying, but I decided that most likely my glasses look pretty good on me, but my coworker isn't very direct with compliments, so ...
Another time, an ex-friend of mine saw me and commented on how long my hair had grown... !!!! I just told her, yes, it does that. It grows. And I figured, she doesn't know what to say to me so she's grasping for obvious things.
Go figure, people just don't know what to say.
posted by Locochona at 8:06 PM on July 26, 2010
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"Don't knock the weather. If it didn't change once in a while, nine out of ten people couldn't start a conversation." -- Kin Hubbard
posted by parkerjackson at 5:19 AM on July 26, 2010 [11 favorites]