What is the best dating site for goths and other subculture types
July 22, 2010 10:48 PM   Subscribe

What is a good dating site for goths or other subculture type people?

I would like to find a woman for a long-term monogamous relationship. What I'm really looking for is like you know, a permanent relationship with no intention of breaking up.

I've been looking very energetically on OKCupid and I've found some really cool women on that site. Lots of super nice and intelligent people on there. All ages. It's cool.

However, the problem I'm running into is that I have a very dark sense of humor and most people can't relate to that. I can get along with just about anyone, but I have a hard time relaxing and being myself around regular normal people. I feel like I always sort of have to watch myself. If I loosen up too much I'm going to alienate people.

I'm not trying to cop an attitude like I'm superior. That's the last thing I'd want to do. It's just that growing up all through my impressionable formative years I subsisted on a steady diet of Joy Division, Siouxsie, Sisters of Mercy, Bauhaus, The Cure, early Metallica, Black Flag, Sabbath, Meat Puppets, Nirvana. Then I got into Covenant, Switchblade Symphony, KMFDM and all that stuff. Meanwhile reading Poe, Wilkie Collins, Joseph Conrad, the Brontes, Ann Rice, Flannery O'Connor.

So now basically I'm a mess and all my jokes have a punch line like, "and then everyone exploded."

Or maybe it has nothing to do with the music I listen to or the books I read and it's just me. But when I see a nice blonde girl who says she's "easy going," "laid back," and "go with the flow," and into sports, I think, "I could never make her happy." I don't want to bring my misery and darkness into anyone's life. I need to find a girl who's already like that. (See what I mean? Hilarious, right?)

I tried to put jokes into my profile that I thought were a scream and you should have heard those crickets chirping. I'm still cleaning out the tumbleweeds. So then with the help of a kind friend I niced it up and started getting way more visits, but as I said I want someone I can really connect with.

I tried Google but all I came up with were pretty lame-looking sites that were obviously just packaged things that some company had slapped a "goth" label onto. Did you know they have "goth cruises" now? I wish I didn't.

Is there a good, well designed, well implemented dating site for people of a dark subculture persuasion?

(By the way, I recently responded to another post and I'm extremely embarrassed about the unnecessary harshness of my response. I really don't know what got into me. I'm so embarrassed that I haven't gone back and looked at the post. But oh well. Onward, right? Yes, I apologized. But if you saw that post you might get a good laugh, at my expense, that I'm now making this post. If that's the case, never was a laugh more richly deserved.)
posted by eeby to Human Relations (44 answers total) 7 users marked this as a favorite
I thought your previous answer was pretty on-point.
posted by ifranzen at 10:59 PM on July 22, 2010

My .02: finding the local freak/goth/whatever forum or lj community or facebook group or meetup or other online hub and just going and doing the things that pop up (even create your own events) wherein you get a chance to meet people, which makes it more likely to connect with someone who really does want a relationship.

The fella's .02: Nerve personals.

Another potential: the personals attached to the nearest "cool" city's alt-weekly...not sure if there's one for your area or not, but worth a shot.
posted by batmonkey at 10:59 PM on July 22, 2010

Are you still in SF (past question hinted so)? There's always Death Guild. If I remember correctly, it's Mondays; quick websearch says it's at the DNA.

Or go see a show that leans towards your music taste, or to a book signing for the literary stuff. Probably those are better than a website anyhow.

Although honestly, okcupid's not so bad for finding those who like the dark side of life; just don't look too long at the profiles that don't interest you. Search for the ones that do.

I am also frightened that there are goth cruises. Woah.
posted by nat at 11:06 PM on July 22, 2010

All the goths I know use OK Cupid. No one seems to actually meet anyone there, though. Usually it's just through the club scene, local online (non dating) scene communities, etc. So basically seconding batmonkey's suggestion.

(and come on... goth cruise looks like so much fun! Like alt.gothic's Convergence but on a boat! Not the expensive one, but the other one run by the same net.goth community from the old newsgroups. I wish I had the cash for that!)
posted by Kellydamnit at 11:11 PM on July 22, 2010

Um, you don't sound like a mess, given your taste of music and books. It's not everyone's taste, but it's not so far out there, my friend.

What I sort of feel that you may have, is just a tinge of selfishness. Like - your sense of humor. Again, it's nothing out of the ordinary. I think of jokes I tell to my friends. Really raunchy and wrong. But they're my friends, they understand.

I can't tell the same jokes to someone I just met, that I also want to, you know, get involved with. Why? It's just not appropriate. Say they joke is border-line racist. My friends and I know where not racists, and the joke being told someone proves that point - we're not comfortable telling it, or hearing it - but the jokes out there, just like any sort of fiction. Being out there isn't wrong, it's what you do with it. But, when someone doesn't know you - they don't know how to gauge what you're saying and will get confused at what you're trying to communicate.

You're, "and then everyone explodes" example just sounds like a 5 year old, in a playground sand pit. It turns anything into an immature joke. I don't necessarily think you're immature, but you have a child-like sense of humor, perhaps. Anything wrong with that? Nope (it's a postive trait, I think), but for your first at bat: not really very attractive. Save it for later. Test the waters.

I'm not saying don't be yourself - be yourself, but expand on what you love to be, in a grown-up type of way.
posted by alex_skazat at 11:44 PM on July 22, 2010 [4 favorites]

Why not find a small-ish local band you like and go to shows?
posted by wayland at 12:16 AM on July 23, 2010 [1 favorite]

Best answer: You know what I'd do? (Well, of course you don't but you're about to.)

I'd start a blog with a catchy title using the words "goth" and "dating" or whatever keywords speak to the group you are targetting.

Hell, someone exactly like you (but of the female persuasion) is no doubt out there looking for someone like you.

Make it easier for her to find you. Let google be your friend.

(Aren't goths kinda more night-time people than sunshine-bikini-cocktail-speedos people? A cruise? Seriously?!? What marketing genius thought THAT up?)
posted by malibustacey9999 at 12:32 AM on July 23, 2010 [1 favorite]

(malibustacey9999: it was a very popular feature of a .net-goth gathering called Convergence and someone saw the obvious marketing potential after individual cities kept coming up with their own versions. goths are all-day kind of people, just focused on darker, edgier things.)
posted by batmonkey at 1:34 AM on July 23, 2010

Best answer: the obvious place is http://www.gothicmatch.com
I have a profile on there and even tho I've never got around to paying I get winks. Funnily enough though at least 2 women who have winked me on there I've run into independently on facebook.

Social groupings on facebook will often revolve around the places people frequent. So if you know enough people from relevant nightclubs or bars you ought to be able to add strangers and have them accept because of social proof aka mutual friends. Once they accept you're in a position to make yourself known, although I would avoid getting too friendly online, leave that for real life. Of course you often don't know if they're single until they accept, but even if they aren't, they have friends too and will notice you commenting. I've gotten adds from attached women's single friends. Thus it's helpful to have your relationship status public to everyone.
posted by browolf at 2:00 AM on July 23, 2010

Best answer: I'm not a goth by any stretch - in the sense that I don't look like one - but I listen to most of the bands you mentioned, read a lot, and I've been having some decent success on OK Cupid, having only been a member for 3 weeks or so.

I honestly think the matching system is pretty good, and if you answer enough questions honestly you'll match up well with people who share a similarly misanthropic outlook. I certainly have. Although this could be down to living in a major capital city - there are simply more people out there.

But I've definitely met a few "edgy" (for want of a better word) people who share the kind of interests and humour you mentioned. It might be worth trying to search beyond people who simply LOOK stereotypically gothy or "subculture-ish". Like I say, I never wear black but I would happily sit up with you til 6am smoking cloves, drinking red wine and listening to the Sisters of Mercy.

But I'm a straight dude. Sorry.
posted by Ted Maul at 2:22 AM on July 23, 2010

Or maybe it has nothing to do with the music I listen to or the books I read and it's just me.

Sorry, but I have I'm going to say it's just you. Nothing that you've listed as your favorite bands or authors is that Earth shattering...sure, they're a bit dark, but well enough into the mainstream (and old enough) to not be that far out of the ordinary. I think you might be taking yourself a might bit too seriously. Bauhaus? Sisters of Mercy? "And they all exploded?" That may have been "edgy" in the '80's, but now it's just old. (I know this because I'm....well...old). Are you sure you're not just scared? Maybe those blonde, sports loving chicks aren't as hard to please as you think. Why not expand your horizons past the early 90s and give the girls of today a try?
posted by The Light Fantastic at 3:15 AM on July 23, 2010 [4 favorites]

Best answer: Are you actually a goth or do you just want to date goths? You don't want to seem like a tourist.

Anyway, rather then putting examples in your profile, you could just try being straight forward and saying "I have a dark sense of humor and I'm looking for girls with an an edge," There are probably lots of girls out there who seem normal but actually don't feel like they are and secretly want to let their freak flag fly. You just have to get to know each other.
posted by delmoi at 4:29 AM on July 23, 2010 [1 favorite]

I've seen/met gothy people on OKCupid. Plus, gothy people have gothy friends and know where the gothy hangouts are. Network! Alternately, hang out on non-dating-themed forums that have an active community you like, and make friends and ask around.

Two things that stand out to me, though, that might be impeding you:

First, your pop-culture preferences are nowhere near as important an identifier as you think they are, and might be cutting some opportunities off at the pass. When I was looking, one of the biggest turnoffs in dating profiles for me was seeing long, long lists of bands or movies the guy liked. I don't care about your fucking CD collection, tell me about you. I avoided them because taste in music seems like a pretty shallow signifier of personality, because it doesn't matter in a relationship except when you're both in a car and deciding on a radio station, and because I like both Black Flag and Billy Joel and yes it is possible to do that and I don't want to be sneered at for it.

Second, if the nice blonde girls sound interesting, talk to them, seriously. I'm an easygoing, go-with-the-flow, not overtly subculturey kind of person (though not blonde), and that was exactly why I was open to making friends with goths, or pretty much anyone else. Some people let you know what they are right away, but some people are all Banana Republic on the surface with hidden streaks of dark humor, kink, or other interesting weirdness.
posted by Metroid Baby at 4:36 AM on July 23, 2010 [3 favorites]

Ooh, and one more thing: looking at your previous questions (man, I always feel like I'm cheating when I do that) it looks like you're in your forties. After college, identifying as a certain type gets a little less important for people, and I think it drops off even more after thirty. If you're looking for women anywhere near your age, you are going to find few who straight-up label themselves as goths, even if they identify with your subculture. And if you introduce yourself as "a goth," there are going to be people who wonder why you still identify with a high school stereotype. This is true if you're twenty-five, and it gets more true as you get older.
posted by Metroid Baby at 4:53 AM on July 23, 2010 [1 favorite]

The problem isn't that there are no goths on OKCupid. The problem is that you're in your mid 40s.

Goth culture hasn't even been around long enough for people your age to have gotten into it when they were teenagers. Most people get into it when they're teenagers. And they rarely keep it up into their 40s.

I totally know what you mean about being bored with Miss "I'm very laid back and like to go with the flow, I like all kinds of music, friends and family are very important to me." They're on every dating site, but OKCupid is the best site I've found for avoiding them.
posted by Jaltcoh at 5:32 AM on July 23, 2010

Also, a word of advice: there's no point in apologizing for comments in an earlier thread. No one's going to bother making the connection, and you're just distracting people from your question.
posted by Jaltcoh at 5:35 AM on July 23, 2010

Not goth based, but check out plenty of fish, too. Much better than OKCupid in my small town.
posted by kiwi-epitome at 5:45 AM on July 23, 2010

Best answer: There's Vampire Freaks (a.k.a. the goth/industrial MySpace,) although it probably skews a lot younger (i.e. obnoxious teenagers) than what you're looking for. Couldn't hurt to scan, though.
posted by griphus at 5:54 AM on July 23, 2010

Best answer: Almost 40 gothy type person here. I'm not single and have never used a dating site, but I know via friends that a lot of the "goth dating" sites are really just places for creepy guys to find younger goth girls beacuse they're "freaky". I second the suggestions of just using regular sites and being more selective. And go out. And don't get hung up on labels!
posted by JoanArkham at 6:08 AM on July 23, 2010

Goth culture hasn't even been around long enough for people your age to have gotten into it when they were teenagers. Most people get into it when they're teenagers. And they rarely keep it up into their 40s.

Not true. Goth subculture has been around for 30 years, give or take. I know more than a few eldergoths who have stayed in the scene since their teens.
posted by elsietheeel at 6:14 AM on July 23, 2010 [7 favorites]

Goth subculture has been around for 30 years, give or take.

Seconded, just for esteem to the OP. Goth came up hand-in-hand with punk rock. They may not keep the physical trappings up as much as they did when they were younger (deathhawks are a lot of work,) or hang out at concerts, but they're definitely around and in plenty of places. I used to run a punk-rock/goth boutique in NYC and saw plenty a number of down-low goths, tourists and locals alike.
posted by griphus at 6:24 AM on July 23, 2010 [2 favorites]

OK, so maybe I'm technically wrong on that historical point. Admittedly, I based my comment on a quick check of Wikipedia, which dates gothism back to the '80s.

But the more relevant question for the OP's purposes is what percent of people his age are that type. Much closer to 0% than 1%. Don't make that your main criterion.
posted by Jaltcoh at 6:30 AM on July 23, 2010

Fair enough, Jaltcoh. I think you (OP) may want to widen your weird-dar. The difference between someone who grew up with .45 Grave and someone who is totally open to listening and enjoying them? Minuscule.

Oh, and as far as the blond girl example you gave? There are people really, really on the DL who you'd never be able to peg for a goth/punk/whatever in their earlier years just because they never bothered with the ink or the piercings and need to work a job where fishnets abd creepers just won't fly. I have friends in their mid-30s who went from holy-crap-look-at-that-guy goth fifteen years ago to Hawaiian shirts and slacks today.
posted by griphus at 6:43 AM on July 23, 2010 [1 favorite]

Best answer: Goth subculture has been around for 30 years, give or take.

Yeah, not true. I was doing goth in the mid 70's.

And the non-goths who are saying that you should give the non-goths a try are kinda not getting the goth thing. But I do think OK Cupid is going to be your best bet, I just think you have to give it more time. 20-somethings who aren't goth can find someone in 2 weeks. But there are a lot less of us 40-somethings on the site, let alone 40-something goths. (I'm assuming the other commentor is correct about your age. If not, I apologize.) Both times I used dating sites, it took about 18 months to find someone. (And I'm not goth and I'm female, which is an advantage on dating sites.) But it was worth the wait - the first relationship lasted 9 years, the second one is now in it's 5th year and I'm keeping this one.

Also, you strike me as extremely intelligent. This, unfortunately, narrows your pool of people you can connect with.

So tl;dr - just hang in there.

And as a nearly 50 y.o. woman, I didn't have a problem with your previous answers. They reflected reality, as opposed to the way people wish the world really was.
posted by MexicanYenta at 7:05 AM on July 23, 2010 [1 favorite]

Yeah, not true. I was doing goth in the mid 70's.
posted by MexicanYenta at 8:21 AM on July 23, 2010

Best answer: You may want to try gk2gk.com. It's not goth per se, but it's very tolerant of people with a subcultural obsession of one kind or another.
posted by jonp72 at 8:50 AM on July 23, 2010

But the more relevant question for the OP's purposes is what percent of people his age are that type. Much closer to 0% than 1%. Don't make that your main criterion.

This doesn't make any sense. Lots of people in the 80's were listening to The Damned, Christian Death, Bauhaus, &c., seeing as how that's when those bands were making records and touring. Lots of those people were women who are now around 40. However, I don't know that many women of their age who would ever label themselves "goth", even if they still dress in black and go see Mark Ryden shows. Once you grow up a bit, you can just be yourself without subscribing to particular identifiers.

OP, I think you're getting hung up on superficial types and labels here. It seems like you've decided you have a "dark" sense of humor ("and then they exploded" sounds more silly than dark to me, honestly) and now you're looking for superficialities that you think match up to your personality traits. Have you been to a Bauhaus concert recently? All kinds of people are there. Lots of people in black, certainly, but also lots of people that are perfectly normal looking. Can you make assumptions about the sense of humor of any of these people, black garbed or otherwise? Not really. (Anecdotally, some of the most earnest and unfunny people I recently met were goth-esque, clove smoking men that worked at a corset makers.) Look for personality traits that match yours. And if you really like the look of subculture-y people too, start going out to events and seeing bands where those people go and get to know some of them.

Most importantly, never, ever, put jokes in your profile.
posted by oneirodynia at 9:48 AM on July 23, 2010

But the more relevant question for the OP's purposes is what percent of people his age are that type. Much closer to 0% than 1%. Don't make that your main criterion.

This doesn't make any sense. Lots of people in the 80's were listening to The Damned, Christian Death, Bauhaus, &c., seeing as how that's when those bands were making records and touring. Lots of those people were women who are now around 40. However, I don't know that many women of their age who would ever label themselves "goth", even if they still dress in black and go see Mark Ryden shows.

I don't understand. First you say that what I said doesn't make sense, then you explain why what I said does make sense. That is, of course there are people in the OP's age range who were listening to similar kinds of music when they were younger. They might still have an affinity with that music now. But he just gave musical tastes as background context for wanting "goth" types. It's like the difference between people who loved "hippie" music when they were teenagers in the '60s and still have an attachment to that music (many, many people) and 60-year-olds who are still literal, overt "hippies" (very few).

Again, these are all generalizations and back-of-the-envelope statistics. Are there die-hard goths in their 40s? I'm sure there are. But have the vast majority of the kids I knew in high school who were into goth culture settled down into a more-or-less mainstream existence, even if they still have a countercultural personality (which might appeal to the OP) and some of the same music in their iPods? I bet they have. Which means they're unlikely to be on a goth-specific dating site, which is what I believe this question is about.

And to be clear, I'm not saying that his musical taste is so incredibly unusual that he's unlikely to find women who share it. I mean, one of his examples was Nirvana -- a fairly popular band!
posted by Jaltcoh at 10:03 AM on July 23, 2010

1. Do you go to goth or industrial clubs? That's a much easier way to meet people in the subculture than to date online. Your age may or may not be a problem depending on what your local scene is like, but where I live (Vancouver) there is a whole age range and a lot of people in their 30's and 40's.

2. A lot of people who do have the same taste as you won't identify as goth because of all the embarrassing things the label entails. I am a clove-smoking black-wearing Bauhaus fan but I would rather have a root canal than join a goth dating site or something like Vampirefreaks.

3. You can date someone with different taste in books and music than you. Plus, a lot of the bands you mentioned (Nirvana, Metallica etc.) are mainstream enough even for blonde sports girls to like. Give them a chance and open yourself to different kinds of people. Even "normal" people can enjoy morbid jokes.

4. Get over yourself. You're probably not as full of "misery and darkness" as you think you are. No matter what your style or taste, being obsessed with how different and daaark you are will make you come across as a pretentious twit.
posted by vanitas at 10:17 AM on July 23, 2010 [3 favorites]

Response by poster: Thanks for all the answers! Some very interesting points. It's going to take me a while to read and assimilate it all, but I do appreciate it!

To clarify one thing: I'm not trying to disparage the "laid back," "go with the flow" girls. I have nothing but respect for them. It's just that I don't know how to make them laugh.
posted by eeby at 11:07 AM on July 23, 2010

Personally, if I was looking for a long term monogamous relationship, I'd focus more on finding a woman of good character, rather than worrying about surface stuff like musical taste and penchant for black hair dye.
posted by medeine at 11:18 AM on July 23, 2010

It's just that I don't know how to make them laugh.

Blanket generalities and assumptions do not get a man laid (or engaged or whatever sweet middle you're looking for.) Not a woman on earth wants to hear "I don't know how to..." out of a potential partner. Try. Fail. Be a better and more interesting person for it.
posted by griphus at 11:31 AM on July 23, 2010 [1 favorite]

Best answer: I'm a 42-year-old single female. I've been happily involved in the goth/industrial scene for about 20 years now. I know many other goth/rivethead types in their 30s and 40s, and a few in their 50s. Jillian Venters, author of Gothic Charm School, is in her early 40s and going strong - and brilliantly so, if you ask me. Jared Louche of Chemlab makes no secret of the fact that he's 50.

So you needn't worry about your age. Pay no mind to people who think your interest in things spooky and morbid is little more than an extended adolescent phase, and people who think you won't be able to date within the goth/industrial subculture just because you're in your 40s. For some of us, "goth" is a hell of a lot more than a high school stereotype; among other things, it's also a lifestyle, a passion for music, an aesthetic, an appreciation of dark themes in art and literature, a taste for the dramatic in fashion and home decor, a live-and-let-live attitude toward variation and diversity in human sexuality...and on and on. There's nothing wrong with any of that; in fact, age and maturity can actually deepen your appreciation for it.

Finding someone who's interested in monogamy may actually be more of a challenge in dating than your age is, because poly people are so heavily concentrated in the goth scene and other alternative subcultures. So I think the advice to take a closer look at women who may seem outwardly normal but may secretly want to "let their freak flag fly" (as delmoi so aptly put it) is also good. Just this week, in fact, I met an attractive single man who hardly ever wears black and would never be identified as "one of us" upon first glance, but whose musical tastes and other sensibilities, it turns out, are remarkably compatible with mine. Quite a pleasant surprise. So I'd say be clear about what you want...and make sure to keep an open mind at the same time, as it may not arrive in the package you might expect.

I like browolf's approach. I will tell you that one of the best things I have done in recent months to improve my social life, and therefore my dating prospects, is to revive my long-dormant Facebook account and use it to actively get to know other middle-aged eccentric and artsy people in my city. I go out to clubs and concerts as frequently as possible, take photos of bands and people on my friends list, and then post those photos to Facebook where my whole network can see them and comment on them. I post frequently about my music listening habits, and comment on the posts of others with similar tastes in a way that encourages further discussion. I also actively encourage my friends to introduce me to their other friends, both on Facebook and in person.

Using this approach (along with exercising a certain measure of patience and discernment), I have met a LOT of new gothy/artsy types - several of whom are single, middle-aged, and attractive - in the past six months. There's been a bit of flirting, a few attempts from friends to fix me up with their single friends, and even a couple of dates. I'm not in a relationship, and not seriously dating anyone, but I'm definitely having more fun and seem to be attracting at least a bit of flirtatious/romantic interest. That's quite a bit of success for an introvert like me!

If you're in a city with a fairly sizable goth scene, I'll bet you can do the same. If you're in SF as mentioned earlier in this thread, I'm sure you know there is a large goth scene there. Take advantage of it. Do some networking! Organize a meetup! Ask your friends to introduce you around! You can also link your dating profile from your Facebook account and other sites, so that interested people can check it out. You could also try Gothic Personals. (That site is kind of clunky and could use a redesign, but at least it's free, and it's run by someone who's actually involved in the goth scene). If you have a profile on a music site like last.fm or ReverbNation and spend some time fleshing it out so it reflects your tastes, you can use that as a kind of supplement. Sometimes music sites can lead you to other cool people in your local area who share your musical tastes but with whom you might not cross paths at the clubs and shows.

Hell, I happen to have several awesome gothy friends in the Bay area. If you want, I'll ask if I can give you their contact info, and maybe they can introduce you to some of their friends, and so on, and with a little luck and effort you'll be off and running. Memail me if interested.

Good luck, and rock on with your bad, black-clad self!

P.S. I thought this description: "I tried to put jokes into my profile that I thought were a scream and you should have heard those crickets chirping. I'm still cleaning out the tumbleweeds." ...was laugh-out-loud funny. So I'd say keep up the jokes; it's a good way to weed out those who don't share your sense of humor.
posted by velvet winter at 11:38 AM on July 23, 2010 [7 favorites]

Keep in mind there are also going to be plenty of ex-goths out there who may not show up in the usual goth haunts. I'd guess that by 30's/40's many have "moved on" in the sense that they may not keep up the appearance/go to clubs/etc, but still have an appreciation for the music/aesthetic. I'm one of those, and I've got to imagine there's still plenty of others. They may _also_ be in to lots of non-goth stuff (but, of course, so are many "active" goths) but wouldn't be turned off by one.

Of course, this is more just a "don't worry" comment than a "how to find them" one. People don't usually put "ex-goth" in their profile or anything, although you could look for tell-tale bands / movies.
posted by wildcrdj at 1:27 PM on July 23, 2010

Pay no mind to people who think your interest in things spooky and morbid is little more than an extended adolescent phase, and people who think you won't be able to date within the goth/industrial subculture just because you're in your 40s.

Wait, who is saying this? Not me. Yet you seem to be alluding to my earlier comments.

Saying that goths are mainly prevalent around high school age and tend to drop it once they get into even the 20-30 age range, and even more so by the time they're 40-50, is not saying that being a goth is inherently an "adolescent phase." I'm just making an empirical observation based on what I've seen. There's nothing inherently bad about things that are done mostly in the teenage years. We could make a list of good things teenagers do much more often than middle-aged people (for instance, intensively learning foreign languages, or voraciously discovering lots of new music). So, observing that something's done mostly by young people isn't an insult.

And all these comments about how there are goths in their 40s seem to be clearly up a confusion that no one actually has. That is, nobody's questioning whether there are goths in their 40s. Of course there are. The question is whether this type should be the main focus of the OP's dating search. To answer "no" is not to say that goths in the OP's age range don't exist, and it's certainly not to put down goths.

Here's a parallel: I'm Jewish and a vegetarian. Clearly, I am not one to put down Jews or vegetarians, or deny that they exist (in any age range). But if someone posted a question asking how to find Jewish vegetarians to date, I would recommend that this person stop and think about the actual numbers involved -- vegetarians being a quite small portion of the population, and Jews being 1.5% of the US population (in fact, much less in certain areas). Change that to Jewish vegans, and you're looking at less than 1 in 1,000 Americans. Therefore, if your main focus in dating is trying to find Jewish vegans, that's just not an ideal strategy. But of course, I wouldn't deny that Jewish vegans exist; they exist. There just aren't enough of them to be worth ignoring all the other many types, or signing up for a website exclusive to them. And all I'm saying is that overt goths/punks in the 40 to 50 age range are similar.

You might even disagree with my view on dating strategy. Maybe you think my advice is too pessimistic or too focused on numbers. But let's be clear that no one, as far as I can tell, is saying goths in their 40s are juvenile or non-existent.
posted by Jaltcoh at 3:50 PM on July 23, 2010

Point well taken, Jaltcoh. I understand that you weren't trying to be dismissive, and for what it's worth, I agree that the odds of finding a partner who's actively and openly involved in the goth/industrial subcultures seem to decrease with age (for all kinds of reasons). But there is definitely a tendency in non-goth circles to dismiss goth as an adolescent phase that mature people outgrow, however, and that tendency is what I was trying to counter with my comments.
posted by velvet winter at 4:27 PM on July 23, 2010

Best answer: something to keep an eye out for is people from other subcultures that have similar sensibilities - I'm a rivethead dating a punk, and though our musical tastes don't totally overlap, we both share a worldview and sense of humour that makes our relationship awesome.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 9:29 PM on July 23, 2010

Interesting discussion. The network-in-real-life advice (e.g., from velvet winter) seems right on. My suggestion is more straightforward and similar to delmoi's. Explain yourself and what you want in declarative sentences and real-life examples. "I can skillfully apply your thick black eyeliner." "I will entertain you by reciting Poe." "Please help kill my pain with dribblings of hot wax." Those examples are shallow and show how little I know about "goth," which is why the more you get beyond "goth" and KMFDM to the roots of things, the better. "I am misanthropic and distrust many people's easy, glib certainty about life, but as a partner, this makes me sensitive, gentle, and able to accept you with your fears and flaws intact." (Hmm... overbearing or self-absorbed as part of a dating profile?) What do you really offer to a partner? What do you really want? Tell them. "I want to make you laugh, but my sense of humor is very dark, so if you don't laugh at gore humor, I might wither away from inadequacy." Online dating is a writing exercise, and I'm sure many here who are better writers than I am would be willing to help.
posted by salvia at 1:29 PM on July 24, 2010

In case it's not clear, the various examples I give are part of the wide range of what I've seen "goth" mean to people, and I'm not saying I think all "goths" are any of that. I'm assuming the reasons someone identifies as goth are actually rather deep and personal. Some of what I say above are also feelings that I've seen very non-"goth" people have as well, and I'd hope that explaining yourself more clearly will help you find goths-at-heart who now wear khaki.
posted by salvia at 1:35 PM on July 24, 2010

Response by poster: Thanks again for the awesome answers. I appreciate all of them, even the ones that were sort of "get over yourself." It's always good to step back and say, OK am I being too self-absorbed here?

But I highlighted the ones that addressed my specific question of what's a good website.

Just for B.G. info, I was involved in the SF goth scene for a while. Went to clubs, parties, etc. It was fun. But I can't really do that any more. A lot of reasons, but the main one is that my ears just can't take the volume in the clubs. I already have chronic tinnitus. I can't afford to make it worse. So I'm afraid my Death Guild days are over.

But that wasn't the real issue I was asking about anyway. It isn't "how can I get into the goth scene? Per se." It more like how can I find someone who won't be repelled by my sense of humor and underlying worldview. (Again, NOT saying it's BETTER, just that most people find it aliening, I'm not kidding. They really do. When I made my profile nicer and got rid of the doom jokes, things really started picking up.)

Just one example: Here's an anecdote I find extremely funny. I was living with a girl and she had several pet rats. One of them went to the great Habitrail in the sky. She put it in the freezer, intending to bury it. Then she forgot about it. Then we broke up. She moved out, unintentionally leaving the rat. So every since then I LOVE to say, "[Name of girl] moved out and left nothing behind but a dead rat in the freezer." I think it's a scream. The "laid back" "easy going" girls don't want to hear that shit.

So although I don't was to actually return to the goth scene, I was just thinking that maybe on some subculture-oriented dating site I might find women with whom I have more in common an -- tastes, interests, idea of what's funny, and so on.

I'll try that Gothic Match one. Look like it might be OK.

posted by eeby at 2:57 AM on July 25, 2010

"[Name of girl] moved out and left nothing behind but a dead rat in the freezer."

I think I have a dark sense of humor, but I wouldn't want to hear that. It's funny once I know the (normal-sounding) backstory. But without knowing it, and depending on your tone of voice, it wouldn't be funny. It's confusing and has a slightly bitter undertone. I'd be like wtf? she did what? why would she do that? it sounds like you're making her the bad guy (she abandoned you and left something dirty), is that what you'd do to me if we had a disagreement? do you normally date spiteful people who do nasty things? or do you just frame your exes to sound like nasty people? would you be bitter and play the victim if something went wrong with us?

I'm getting a bit far-fetched here and jumping to conclusions that I might not jump to if I could hear your tone of voice, but you can see where that comment has a subtext beyond "dead, gross things are funny to me but not to some people."

tldr: To me, that comment violates rules about how and when to talk about exes, not rules about what kind of humor is allowed.
posted by salvia at 1:06 PM on July 25, 2010

Huh, checking my recent activity and spotting the Bentley disagreement on another question only reinforces the comment I just made. Maybe this is the debate you were referring to in your opening question? If so, I'm sorry to bring up a slightly painful topic. I don't normally pull in people's history from elsewhere, but I do really think it bears on your question here.

You claim your difficulty in meeting women is because of your sense of humor. Over there, you tell an older guy trying to find a younger woman to date that he "really [doesn't] have much chance at all unless [he's] *astonishingly* good looking or drive a Bentley." Someone took offense, said she has never cared about her boyfriend's car and that "women are not Pavlov's dogs, trained to drool at the first sniff of money and power, and i find the suggestion really quite offensive." Your response was "Look, let's just drop the Bentley thing, OK? I was trying to use humor to make a point."

I'm not trying to rub in that you said something that offended someone, or anything like that. But you had made a strong comment and said something you really seemed to believe. Then when challenged, though, you claimed that it was just a joke. You called it "humor." Maybe it was a humorous way of saying something, but it was also a point that you seemed to really be trying to make. This exchange has me wondering whether you are wrapping up too many things into the term "sense of humor," and whether you are thinking that the problem is different senses of humor when the real turn-off might be some of your beliefs and attitudes about women and/or relationships.
posted by salvia at 1:25 PM on July 25, 2010

"[Name of girl] moved out and left nothing behind but a dead rat in the freezer."

I think I have a dark sense of humor, but I wouldn't want to hear that.

Just so you have another opinion, that wouldn't put me off at all. Actually, if you said that to me, I'd be interested to hear the rest of the story. Hell, I have a "dead kitten in the freezer" story myself.
posted by MexicanYenta at 8:00 PM on July 25, 2010

"[Name of girl] moved out and left nothing behind but a dead rat in the freezer."

that made me laugh my ass off
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 11:13 PM on July 27, 2010

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