Will an alignment fix my tire problems?
July 13, 2010 2:11 AM Subscribe
Lowered car = tire murder. How much will a proper alignment help?
I have a 1998 Eclipse that's been lowered (by the previous owner) by about 2-2.5". It's not "slammed", but it definitely scrapes on some dips and such.
I've had the car for about four years, but since this last batch of tires, this thing is literally chewing through tires. On the rear, the tires "chirp" whenever I hit a bump, as the outside of the wheel well digs into the outer sidewall of the tire. This is unpleasant, but seems to be only cosmetic as I've had a chirping tire for the better part of two years now.
Meanwhile, the front tires must not be aligned/cambered properly because they're going bald from the inside out. I've had the tire people at Discount Tire tell me that they're improperly aligned and that an alignment should help, but I'm wondering what my options are, how much I should expect to pay, and how much an alignment will solve the problem.
The primary problem is that I've had two front tires go flat in the past three months and the tires are under 18 months old and under 12,000 miles. This is clearly a quick rate of destruction, and they're dying by splitting on the *inside*. (Pic here. That's the inside of the tire.)
I had them rotated, but that's only helping so much, and they're going bald entirely too quickly, so the root of the question is: will a proper alignment really help? How much will it cost? I don't have the original springs any more, so I can't easily restore that without junkyarding things and don't really want to do that if a $100-$200 alignment might actually do the trick. Then again, I don't want to pay for an alignment if it's not going to solve the "chewing through $130-a-pop-no-pun-intended tires" problem.
Thanks in advance.
I have a 1998 Eclipse that's been lowered (by the previous owner) by about 2-2.5". It's not "slammed", but it definitely scrapes on some dips and such.
I've had the car for about four years, but since this last batch of tires, this thing is literally chewing through tires. On the rear, the tires "chirp" whenever I hit a bump, as the outside of the wheel well digs into the outer sidewall of the tire. This is unpleasant, but seems to be only cosmetic as I've had a chirping tire for the better part of two years now.
Meanwhile, the front tires must not be aligned/cambered properly because they're going bald from the inside out. I've had the tire people at Discount Tire tell me that they're improperly aligned and that an alignment should help, but I'm wondering what my options are, how much I should expect to pay, and how much an alignment will solve the problem.
The primary problem is that I've had two front tires go flat in the past three months and the tires are under 18 months old and under 12,000 miles. This is clearly a quick rate of destruction, and they're dying by splitting on the *inside*. (Pic here. That's the inside of the tire.)
I had them rotated, but that's only helping so much, and they're going bald entirely too quickly, so the root of the question is: will a proper alignment really help? How much will it cost? I don't have the original springs any more, so I can't easily restore that without junkyarding things and don't really want to do that if a $100-$200 alignment might actually do the trick. Then again, I don't want to pay for an alignment if it's not going to solve the "chewing through $130-a-pop-no-pun-intended tires" problem.
Thanks in advance.
It depends on how far misaligned your wheels are. My suspicion is that you will only get so far with an alignment. It might be good enough, it might not be. 2.5" is a lot lower than stock, and is probably causing/exacerbating your negative camber up front. The previous owner may have installed cheap springs, or worse, cut the stock springs--as they age they could be even lower.
I'd investigate how much installing stock springs from the junkyard would cost, before deciding what to do. You'd end up doing the alignment twice if the initial alignment alone wasn't good enough. And the alignment shop should be able to tell you how much an alignment costs, pretty exactly. You know what, maybe you should get a second opinion from an independent shop (and not a tire chain); this is all information a regular mechanic can give you.
[I am not a mechanic. These are best guesses from someone who has had to manage negative camber from a lowered car.]
posted by danny the boy at 3:03 AM on July 13, 2010
I'd investigate how much installing stock springs from the junkyard would cost, before deciding what to do. You'd end up doing the alignment twice if the initial alignment alone wasn't good enough. And the alignment shop should be able to tell you how much an alignment costs, pretty exactly. You know what, maybe you should get a second opinion from an independent shop (and not a tire chain); this is all information a regular mechanic can give you.
[I am not a mechanic. These are best guesses from someone who has had to manage negative camber from a lowered car.]
posted by danny the boy at 3:03 AM on July 13, 2010
Response by poster: He definitely didn't cut the springs as I had and sold the stock springs just after first getting the car. They are sports springs but clearly lowering your car isn't a bright idea.
My struts are also, I'm guessing, on their last legs as the ride qualify has degraded significantly. I'll ask the alignment shop what they think, and start planning a plan b, in any event. Thanks, and hit me with any additional.aapplicabadvice!
posted by disillusioned at 3:44 AM on July 13, 2010
My struts are also, I'm guessing, on their last legs as the ride qualify has degraded significantly. I'll ask the alignment shop what they think, and start planning a plan b, in any event. Thanks, and hit me with any additional.aapplicabadvice!
posted by disillusioned at 3:44 AM on July 13, 2010
Best answer: Two and a half inches is pretty slammed. A mild drop is typically 1.5 inches or less. Due to the aggressive drop your suspension has, additional hardware may be necessary to facilitate the correct your alignment. There may be a camber kit available for your car that increases the possible range of adjustment. The stock components might not have enough adjustment range to cope with the drastic camber difference that a two inch drop creates. But once you have the right hardware, a dialed in alignment should correct your tire wear issues. And if the ride height is adjustable, the way some Tien brand suspension is, I would recommend backing it off to about 1.75 inches since an alignment might not stop the tire from hitting the wheel arch.
But really, improperly lowered cars are prone to steering and suspension issues. A good loading kit matches the spring rates and damper characteristics but just slapping some drop springs will premature wear out the stock shocks and be poorly matched to the rest of the suspension, resulting in a weird wobbly ride and frequent bottoming out. Since your car has recently started hitting the wheel arches, I'd bet the drop springs have weakened the shocks. Your best bet at this point might be to retrofit the original suspension. It surely will allow you to obtain the correct alignment geometry and it will improve the ride and handling.
posted by Jon-o at 3:48 AM on July 13, 2010
But really, improperly lowered cars are prone to steering and suspension issues. A good loading kit matches the spring rates and damper characteristics but just slapping some drop springs will premature wear out the stock shocks and be poorly matched to the rest of the suspension, resulting in a weird wobbly ride and frequent bottoming out. Since your car has recently started hitting the wheel arches, I'd bet the drop springs have weakened the shocks. Your best bet at this point might be to retrofit the original suspension. It surely will allow you to obtain the correct alignment geometry and it will improve the ride and handling.
posted by Jon-o at 3:48 AM on July 13, 2010
The amount of money you are going to have to spend on prematurely ruined tires will easily pay for the cost of restoring the suspension to stock, not to mention the improvement in ride and the "not looking like a clown" factor.
posted by Rhomboid at 4:54 AM on July 13, 2010
posted by Rhomboid at 4:54 AM on July 13, 2010
Nothing wrong with lowering a car - within reason. Keep it legal, keep it within the range that the suspension camber and wheel alignment adjusters can handle, and you will have a legal, insurable, sweet handling car.
What is too low? - when the 'bump' movement of the shocks is too low, you will get the suspension bottoming out and the ride becoming uncomfortable, go further and it can be dangerous because when the wheels can't move upwards, the car can be 'bounced' into the air over a big bump. Don't confuse this with worn out shocks, if the car has done more that 50k, the shocks are probably history, or getting that way fast.
Too low, and the camber adjustment can't get the wheels close enough to the vertical, and you get excessive wear on the inside of the tread.
First step, get the wheel alignment done, and talk to the bloke who does it, not the counter jockey. Has he - can he - set the alignment to (near) factory specs - camber and toe in/out ? Toe is less likely to be a problem (wheels pointing to the sides - toe out - or to the inside (toe in).
Camber will be the culprit most likely. You need to get on a website for enthusiasts for your car, and check their technical section, and do a search for threads on lowering and issues arising - that will give you good advice on the limits - the wheel alignment shop will not give you much model-specific information beyond the factory specs.
BTW, that photo suggests to me that under-inflation may be a cause/contributor, I have NEVER seen that arising from excessive camber, but excessive camber combined with low pressure could produce that result.
Good luck, and let us know how you get on.
posted by GeeEmm at 5:32 AM on July 13, 2010
What is too low? - when the 'bump' movement of the shocks is too low, you will get the suspension bottoming out and the ride becoming uncomfortable, go further and it can be dangerous because when the wheels can't move upwards, the car can be 'bounced' into the air over a big bump. Don't confuse this with worn out shocks, if the car has done more that 50k, the shocks are probably history, or getting that way fast.
Too low, and the camber adjustment can't get the wheels close enough to the vertical, and you get excessive wear on the inside of the tread.
First step, get the wheel alignment done, and talk to the bloke who does it, not the counter jockey. Has he - can he - set the alignment to (near) factory specs - camber and toe in/out ? Toe is less likely to be a problem (wheels pointing to the sides - toe out - or to the inside (toe in).
Camber will be the culprit most likely. You need to get on a website for enthusiasts for your car, and check their technical section, and do a search for threads on lowering and issues arising - that will give you good advice on the limits - the wheel alignment shop will not give you much model-specific information beyond the factory specs.
BTW, that photo suggests to me that under-inflation may be a cause/contributor, I have NEVER seen that arising from excessive camber, but excessive camber combined with low pressure could produce that result.
Good luck, and let us know how you get on.
posted by GeeEmm at 5:32 AM on July 13, 2010
Agreeing with the above. Your camber would need to be REALLY seriously hosed for you to actually have blowouts like that, but at 2.5" lower combined with low tire pressure could do that. On low profile tires, you should be checking pressure a couple times a week. 35 psi is probably about right. The lowering/camber issues may be concentrating a lot of the heat and impact on the inside of the tire, but there are a LOT of people silly enough to run cars this low who don't have this problem.
Most cars will handle a bit better than stock when lowered an inch or so. After that, there's are tons of performance reasons it screws up the car (roll center vs. center of gravity, bump steer, camber curves on jounce, etc) and tons of comfort reasons it screws up ride quality (riding on the bump stops, needing excessive spring rates to control the car's INCREASED tendency to roll, etc). Your best bet is to get some decent springs and shocks that keep it within that ~1" lowering range. 2.5" inches is way too much to correct without messing with camber kits and fancy control arm bushings, and even then you're living with utterly f-ed up geometry. Pressing in new bushings is a royal PITA and you'll get charged several hundred bucks for it.
Fix this. A front wheel blowout at highway speed can kill you REALLY fast.
posted by pjaust at 6:34 AM on July 13, 2010
Most cars will handle a bit better than stock when lowered an inch or so. After that, there's are tons of performance reasons it screws up the car (roll center vs. center of gravity, bump steer, camber curves on jounce, etc) and tons of comfort reasons it screws up ride quality (riding on the bump stops, needing excessive spring rates to control the car's INCREASED tendency to roll, etc). Your best bet is to get some decent springs and shocks that keep it within that ~1" lowering range. 2.5" inches is way too much to correct without messing with camber kits and fancy control arm bushings, and even then you're living with utterly f-ed up geometry. Pressing in new bushings is a royal PITA and you'll get charged several hundred bucks for it.
Fix this. A front wheel blowout at highway speed can kill you REALLY fast.
posted by pjaust at 6:34 AM on July 13, 2010
Bad camber can cause tire wear like that, especially on lower profile wheels like that, because most of the weight of the vehicle is being supported by just one sidewall. You are basically asking that inside sidewall to do double duty, which it probably isn't engineered to do.
If the lowering was simply them installing shorter springs, chances are good that there isn't enough slack in the adjustments to get a good alignment. I would buy new springs and restore at least some of the ride height.
posted by gjc at 7:07 AM on July 13, 2010
If the lowering was simply them installing shorter springs, chances are good that there isn't enough slack in the adjustments to get a good alignment. I would buy new springs and restore at least some of the ride height.
posted by gjc at 7:07 AM on July 13, 2010
An alignment won't do much. either raise the car up or use camber plates (if you can).
posted by wongcorgi at 8:07 AM on July 13, 2010
posted by wongcorgi at 8:07 AM on July 13, 2010
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The angle of the kingpins/ball joints, tie rod ends, etc. plus any of the steering geometries such as caster, camber, or toe can be adversely effected. "Lowering" a vehicle (or "raising" one for that matter) interferes with all these carefully engineered angles. There are very few aftermarket 'kits' that even approach properly integrating all this stuff.
You might get a little improvement, but be prepared to find out the the car is basically trashed for any one of a number of reasons.
Sorry to play Cassandra here, but messing with the suspension of an automobile is bad news.
posted by pjern at 3:01 AM on July 13, 2010