Should I take this job with the Feds?
July 9, 2010 5:46 PM Subscribe
How cushy is government (USA) work?
I am very likely going to be offered a federal job in the next few weeks. The salaries are similar, the benefits are slightly better at my current position.
But I keep hearing about how government employees do nothing all day and cannot be fired. Is this a myth? Is the goof-off factor higher for Federal employees than it is for private sector employees?
This will be an IT job, if that makes a difference. With an office. A door having office, which is also attractive.
Is it worth quitting my current job where I am competent but bored for a Federal job where I will also likely be competent and bored, but with more job security?
I am very likely going to be offered a federal job in the next few weeks. The salaries are similar, the benefits are slightly better at my current position.
But I keep hearing about how government employees do nothing all day and cannot be fired. Is this a myth? Is the goof-off factor higher for Federal employees than it is for private sector employees?
This will be an IT job, if that makes a difference. With an office. A door having office, which is also attractive.
Is it worth quitting my current job where I am competent but bored for a Federal job where I will also likely be competent and bored, but with more job security?
The "government" is not a monolithic entity. Cultures and work styles vary widely between agencies, departments and specific jobs. If you're really looking for information pertinent to your job opportunity, you should be asking the people that already work at your potential employer.
posted by randomstriker at 5:57 PM on July 9, 2010 [7 favorites]
posted by randomstriker at 5:57 PM on July 9, 2010 [7 favorites]
To add to randomstriker's apt comment, you could get a much more meaningful picture of the job by searching for it on LinkedIn. Google the name of the agency (in quotes) with site:linkedin.com. Then contact those people directly if possible and just say: "Hey, I might be working where you work soon. I was wondering... [your questions]."
posted by Jaltcoh at 6:03 PM on July 9, 2010
posted by Jaltcoh at 6:03 PM on July 9, 2010
I have heard that the TSP retirement package is pretty AWESOME, and the benefits should be pretty good too.
posted by TheBones at 6:05 PM on July 9, 2010
posted by TheBones at 6:05 PM on July 9, 2010
From a member who prefers to remain anonymous:
I work for the federal government. Most of the people around me do actually work. We don't just sit around. However, there are far stronger protections in place for employees in most agencies and positions. While it can be very difficult to discipline or fire someone, it can be done, and managers can develop subtle or not-so-subtle ways of exerting pressure, If you do nothing and goof off all day, your co-workers will probably sneer and talk about you behind your back. This may vary considerably by agency and office.posted by jessamyn at 6:06 PM on July 9, 2010 [7 favorites]
I've found it the federal government a very good employer, and my office a very pleasant place to work. Your job can have very real and significant impact, and you don't have the same profit-driven pressures as in large corporations. You don't spend months wondering when and where the ax will fall. You say the benefits are less than your old job, but ours are perhaps less likely to be reduced or taken away. Hell, we still have real pensions.
I still think I've got a pretty good deal, but YMMV.
You get good benefits, including retirement benefits. Government employees are entitled to due process when being terminated (or seriously disciplined), because their employer is the government and the government is Constitutionally obligated to provide due process when dealing with its citizens.
Government employees can be and are fired (they can also be RIFed), but they have much stronger protections in place against capriciousness of their employer. The rules are more predictable and fair and clear, in most cases.
Most government employees I know work hard and are proud of their work, but they are not expected to be on call 24/7 or to work outside of work, in contrast to private sector employees I know in similar (professional salaried, not hourly-type) jobs.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:10 PM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
Government employees can be and are fired (they can also be RIFed), but they have much stronger protections in place against capriciousness of their employer. The rules are more predictable and fair and clear, in most cases.
Most government employees I know work hard and are proud of their work, but they are not expected to be on call 24/7 or to work outside of work, in contrast to private sector employees I know in similar (professional salaried, not hourly-type) jobs.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:10 PM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
I am a retired Federal Govt employee. I can say that I worked very hard. It was not a cushy job. It was not a 'union' type agency. And I loved the challenge and reward of doing a good job. The benefits of retirement were good after over 31 years of service. But I earned every penny. The vacation time was very good. FEMA is a good place for good pay and doing nothing.
posted by JayRwv at 6:12 PM on July 9, 2010
posted by JayRwv at 6:12 PM on July 9, 2010
It isn't at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I've been there and done that. And known lots more who did lots more. Don't take your information from Fox News. There are low level jobs where certain protections are given, but for harder work. Compare the number of people dealt with by the clerk at your DMV or Post Office, with the numbers of customers dealt with by the clerk at your bank. Same pay level, wonder why them gov'ment employees whine about their two breaks a day and getting their 30 min (unpaid) lunches? And they take so much longer too to do ten times the work.
At higher levels (say government lawyers) they work the 15-20 hour days that many attorneys work but without the same pay increases and bonuses.
Really, com'on. Look around. But don't take a government job. It is thankless.
posted by Some1 at 6:13 PM on July 9, 2010
I've been there and done that. And known lots more who did lots more. Don't take your information from Fox News. There are low level jobs where certain protections are given, but for harder work. Compare the number of people dealt with by the clerk at your DMV or Post Office, with the numbers of customers dealt with by the clerk at your bank. Same pay level, wonder why them gov'ment employees whine about their two breaks a day and getting their 30 min (unpaid) lunches? And they take so much longer too to do ten times the work.
At higher levels (say government lawyers) they work the 15-20 hour days that many attorneys work but without the same pay increases and bonuses.
Really, com'on. Look around. But don't take a government job. It is thankless.
posted by Some1 at 6:13 PM on July 9, 2010
I work for a contractor for the DoD, and the government employees do actual work. That being said, things move at a much slower pace than what I remember from the private sector (small company with narrow margins). Every move is made deliberately, communications are all official, etc.
There are the occasional "oh by the way, you need to fly across country next week" events, but by and large everything is planned out months, if not years, in advance. You can do your 9 to 5 and no one bats an eye.
In fact, some days I envy the government employees, since they get paid to do things like attend the infrequent military ceremonies and celebrations; I am "strongly encouraged" to attend, but I have to take vacation time to do so.
posted by backseatpilot at 6:14 PM on July 9, 2010
There are the occasional "oh by the way, you need to fly across country next week" events, but by and large everything is planned out months, if not years, in advance. You can do your 9 to 5 and no one bats an eye.
In fact, some days I envy the government employees, since they get paid to do things like attend the infrequent military ceremonies and celebrations; I am "strongly encouraged" to attend, but I have to take vacation time to do so.
posted by backseatpilot at 6:14 PM on July 9, 2010
My boyfriend is an engineer for the Feds. Trust me, he doesn't goof off. He really works hard and gives his job the attention and professionalism it deserves. From what he has said to me, these are the perks that made working for the US Government more attractive than the private sector:
- Intellectual property. He's an innovator and always has a dozen ideas going on, some directly related to what he does for a living and some not. The Federal government doesn't make you sign over your inventions to them like some private sector places might. A friend of his working in a similar capacity for a contractor showed him his employment contract on the sly (a BIG no-no) and my BF was really dismayed at the sort of rights he would be signing over if he took a job at the same place. This was really important to him; I don't know how much something like that would impact an IT professional.
- Nice work/life balance. From what I can tell there is basically zero expectation to put in weekend hours, or work long into the night, just to put in the appearance of dedication. He can make his own hours (I'm not sure how it works in general but his agency is big on flex time). If he wanted to he could probably work from home a couple of days a week. Because he tends to put 10 or more hours in a day, he gets a weekday off every week.
- Travel. Again, not sure if this would be something you would do a lot of. My bf travels internationally several times a year. It's actually sort of a slog, not much of a vacation, but he gets to have contact with his European peers. Plus he gets to bank extra time off due to the way they compensate him for travel, which is pretty sweet.
- Job security and benefits. Of course! The Feds no longer give benefits out the way some private sector places do, but in a sense they are a set of golden handcuffs; and on the balance the benefits are as good or better than most places. Shoot, he got them to agree to let him accrue 5 weeks of vacation/year just on the basis that he had that before. As a new hire I think his starting vacation accrual would have been much lower otherwise. In the area where he lives, they also pay a significant portion of his commuting costs because he takes public transportation.
Ok, there are some bad things, it's not all kittens and rainbows.
- Bureaucracy. He hates the amount of paperwork he has to fill out for simple things. He hates the whole process of returning from travel and all that entails, with regard to toting up his expenses.
- Travel. It can also be a bad thing. Like when he gets scheduled for three back to back trips which have him ping-ponging from Eastern Europe to the west coast of the US and back to Europe in the space of four weeks.
- Retirement benefits. They used to be as good as you could get, and now they kind of suck. The Feds don't really kick in all that much to thrift savings, even if you max out your contribution every year. On the flip side, all the other benefits are pretty cheap in cost to the employee.
posted by contessa at 6:22 PM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
- Intellectual property. He's an innovator and always has a dozen ideas going on, some directly related to what he does for a living and some not. The Federal government doesn't make you sign over your inventions to them like some private sector places might. A friend of his working in a similar capacity for a contractor showed him his employment contract on the sly (a BIG no-no) and my BF was really dismayed at the sort of rights he would be signing over if he took a job at the same place. This was really important to him; I don't know how much something like that would impact an IT professional.
- Nice work/life balance. From what I can tell there is basically zero expectation to put in weekend hours, or work long into the night, just to put in the appearance of dedication. He can make his own hours (I'm not sure how it works in general but his agency is big on flex time). If he wanted to he could probably work from home a couple of days a week. Because he tends to put 10 or more hours in a day, he gets a weekday off every week.
- Travel. Again, not sure if this would be something you would do a lot of. My bf travels internationally several times a year. It's actually sort of a slog, not much of a vacation, but he gets to have contact with his European peers. Plus he gets to bank extra time off due to the way they compensate him for travel, which is pretty sweet.
- Job security and benefits. Of course! The Feds no longer give benefits out the way some private sector places do, but in a sense they are a set of golden handcuffs; and on the balance the benefits are as good or better than most places. Shoot, he got them to agree to let him accrue 5 weeks of vacation/year just on the basis that he had that before. As a new hire I think his starting vacation accrual would have been much lower otherwise. In the area where he lives, they also pay a significant portion of his commuting costs because he takes public transportation.
Ok, there are some bad things, it's not all kittens and rainbows.
- Bureaucracy. He hates the amount of paperwork he has to fill out for simple things. He hates the whole process of returning from travel and all that entails, with regard to toting up his expenses.
- Travel. It can also be a bad thing. Like when he gets scheduled for three back to back trips which have him ping-ponging from Eastern Europe to the west coast of the US and back to Europe in the space of four weeks.
- Retirement benefits. They used to be as good as you could get, and now they kind of suck. The Feds don't really kick in all that much to thrift savings, even if you max out your contribution every year. On the flip side, all the other benefits are pretty cheap in cost to the employee.
posted by contessa at 6:22 PM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
My little brother is Fed office drone. He hates his job because he is a hard worker - he claims to be surrounded by people that don't do anything so he has to do a lot of their work so he can do his own. He doesn't understand exactly what they do b/c internet access is locked down. His pay is quite good and his benefits are okay; I work for a state government and mine seem much better.
My benefits are likely to be downgraded in the current environment; considering that he works for the people that run the presses, his might be more secure than mine.
posted by codswallop at 6:24 PM on July 9, 2010
My benefits are likely to be downgraded in the current environment; considering that he works for the people that run the presses, his might be more secure than mine.
posted by codswallop at 6:24 PM on July 9, 2010
Oh! He's going to be allowed to telecommute one day a week and he really likes that. His in-laws are pretty high-level bureaucrats and they telecommute almost half-time.
posted by codswallop at 6:25 PM on July 9, 2010
posted by codswallop at 6:25 PM on July 9, 2010
Yeah, things vary office by office. Rarely will things be non-stop hectic in a government job (although I work for state government and know at least one person being worked past burn out), but like any office, jobs tend to be what you make of them, and generally you can be as busy or bored as you choose to be. My dad worked for the feds and worked Incredibly Hard - I blame his heart attack when he was barely 50 on work stress. But despite occasional frustration with the bureaucracy, he felt it was completely worthwhile, and was ambivalent about retiring.
Because your job may be more reactive than some, you may have a harder time not getting bored - but if you work at it, I bet you can find it/make it fulfilling.
posted by ldthomps at 6:35 PM on July 9, 2010
Because your job may be more reactive than some, you may have a harder time not getting bored - but if you work at it, I bet you can find it/make it fulfilling.
posted by ldthomps at 6:35 PM on July 9, 2010
I started my IT career 13 years ago for a government contractor the USAF. I'm glad I did it at an early age. I've since worked for public companies & small businesss... but never the government again.
I and my coworkers all worked really hard . Honestly, more there than anywhere else. The amount of regulatory paperwork is immense. All the politics or working with retired military and crap I didn't think pertained to my responsibilities seemed greater in the government environment. I'm glad I experienced the scale of that type of stuff & haven't encountered it again at those levels.
posted by mnology at 6:36 PM on July 9, 2010
I and my coworkers all worked really hard . Honestly, more there than anywhere else. The amount of regulatory paperwork is immense. All the politics or working with retired military and crap I didn't think pertained to my responsibilities seemed greater in the government environment. I'm glad I experienced the scale of that type of stuff & haven't encountered it again at those levels.
posted by mnology at 6:36 PM on July 9, 2010
I work for the government, and I'm not sure I know anyone who does literally nothing all day. In my field, we're allowed a lot of leeway (I come to work in jeans, work extreme flex-time, etc), but I know of other government agencies that require showing up at 8 on the dot in full professional get-up. I think it may, in general, be lower stress than private sector, but lower stress != goofing off time. The people who are prone to goof off seem to do it no matter what the job is.
In fact, I feel weirdly antagonistic to the thought of someone trying to get a government job *just* so they can slack off. But as far as being a government employee goes, I definitely feel like I have more job security than I did in the private sector, and more perks. At least more consistent perks. There's no million dollar parties being thrown (that I'm aware of), but I'm pretty sure my benefits will remain the same, TSP will remain the same, I know I'll get automatic cost of living, etc. I like knowing what to expect administratively, for the most part, so I can just concentrate on my job. For what it's worth, I was offered the exact same job I have now in the private sector for 15% more money, I decided to take the govt job (largely because of the student loan forgiveness program), and almost a year later, I do not regret it. Many of my family members have also worked for various branches of the government, and nobody regrets it.
However, there is a ton of bureaucracy and red tape for anything, so you have to have a pretty zen-like approach to that.
On preview - these are all things that are agency specific, again:
I do not get paid to attend ceremonies, or even encouraged to go. However, we always get granted a bit of extra leave the day before a holiday.
Traveling REALLY depends on what you do. I have to do some wheedling to get sent anywhere.
I, personally, think the govt thrift savings and retirement is a deal. I've never had comparable contributions anywhere else to my 401Ks, but maybe I'm just young and haven't had enough jobs to compare. I know the retirement, TSP, and medical benefits are all quite a lot better than I got back when I was a state university employee (not a student employee), and slightly better than I got in industry.
I just googled this. According to this, federal workers make an average of $3.16 per hour in retirement and savings. When compared with the "jobs with the best retirement" here, federal government is second only to utility workers at $4.22, above universities at $2.39, and well above the average of $.92 for private firms, unless I'm reading something hugely incorrectly. And I believe that's with the rates for FERS and not CSRS, which was the *super* good one that's not around any more.
posted by wending my way at 6:56 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
In fact, I feel weirdly antagonistic to the thought of someone trying to get a government job *just* so they can slack off. But as far as being a government employee goes, I definitely feel like I have more job security than I did in the private sector, and more perks. At least more consistent perks. There's no million dollar parties being thrown (that I'm aware of), but I'm pretty sure my benefits will remain the same, TSP will remain the same, I know I'll get automatic cost of living, etc. I like knowing what to expect administratively, for the most part, so I can just concentrate on my job. For what it's worth, I was offered the exact same job I have now in the private sector for 15% more money, I decided to take the govt job (largely because of the student loan forgiveness program), and almost a year later, I do not regret it. Many of my family members have also worked for various branches of the government, and nobody regrets it.
However, there is a ton of bureaucracy and red tape for anything, so you have to have a pretty zen-like approach to that.
On preview - these are all things that are agency specific, again:
I do not get paid to attend ceremonies, or even encouraged to go. However, we always get granted a bit of extra leave the day before a holiday.
Traveling REALLY depends on what you do. I have to do some wheedling to get sent anywhere.
I, personally, think the govt thrift savings and retirement is a deal. I've never had comparable contributions anywhere else to my 401Ks, but maybe I'm just young and haven't had enough jobs to compare. I know the retirement, TSP, and medical benefits are all quite a lot better than I got back when I was a state university employee (not a student employee), and slightly better than I got in industry.
I just googled this. According to this, federal workers make an average of $3.16 per hour in retirement and savings. When compared with the "jobs with the best retirement" here, federal government is second only to utility workers at $4.22, above universities at $2.39, and well above the average of $.92 for private firms, unless I'm reading something hugely incorrectly. And I believe that's with the rates for FERS and not CSRS, which was the *super* good one that's not around any more.
posted by wending my way at 6:56 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
I work for the Ontario government in Canada and the stereotype that government workers do nothing all day exists here too. People do work really hard. I didn't read all the comments, but I totally agree with the anon commenter.
posted by foxjacket at 6:58 PM on July 9, 2010
posted by foxjacket at 6:58 PM on July 9, 2010
I think that no matter where you work there will be drones who just show up and do the minimum to get by. People who have their own personal strong work ethic can be found in government work as well as in the private sector.
There are indeed significant benefits to Federal employment, and also drawbacks. Understand that if you do take the govt job you will have re-hire rights once you've completed your one year probation. You can try the job for a year or so and then go back to private industry knowing that federal employment remains a back-up.
I've worked for the US Federal govt off and on for 30+ years now, and also worked in county and municipal level govt jobs. Different departments and agencies have greatly different attitudes and expectations. The hardest working most motivated people I ever worked with were in the USDA/FS, but I hear that there have been significant changes since I was there. The USDI/BLM is another of several Fed agencies that also have some great, highly motivated workers. The DoD civilians I worked with included some of the least productive people that I've seen anywhere.
Yes it can be very difficult to terminate unproductive or seriously problematic Federal employees. I've only done it twice and understand that it has become exceedingly difficult and complex to remove a career employee, no matter what they may have done - or not done.
I'm currently part of the DHS workforce, on call 24/7. I've had lots of opportunity to travel - eight of the last eleven weeks I was away from my home state. Our IT folks have the same expectations for travel, and in general they work hard. All of my FEMA co-workers are hard workers and many contribute unpaid, uncompensated hours, but I've also seen some of the unproductive sort of FEMA employees that JayRwv refers to above.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
posted by X4ster at 8:03 PM on July 9, 2010
There are indeed significant benefits to Federal employment, and also drawbacks. Understand that if you do take the govt job you will have re-hire rights once you've completed your one year probation. You can try the job for a year or so and then go back to private industry knowing that federal employment remains a back-up.
I've worked for the US Federal govt off and on for 30+ years now, and also worked in county and municipal level govt jobs. Different departments and agencies have greatly different attitudes and expectations. The hardest working most motivated people I ever worked with were in the USDA/FS, but I hear that there have been significant changes since I was there. The USDI/BLM is another of several Fed agencies that also have some great, highly motivated workers. The DoD civilians I worked with included some of the least productive people that I've seen anywhere.
Yes it can be very difficult to terminate unproductive or seriously problematic Federal employees. I've only done it twice and understand that it has become exceedingly difficult and complex to remove a career employee, no matter what they may have done - or not done.
I'm currently part of the DHS workforce, on call 24/7. I've had lots of opportunity to travel - eight of the last eleven weeks I was away from my home state. Our IT folks have the same expectations for travel, and in general they work hard. All of my FEMA co-workers are hard workers and many contribute unpaid, uncompensated hours, but I've also seen some of the unproductive sort of FEMA employees that JayRwv refers to above.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
posted by X4ster at 8:03 PM on July 9, 2010
I don't work for the government, but I have a friend who does, and she definitely seems to have plenty of work to do. Also has to travel all over the place for work, including foreign countries. This obviously depends on the job/agency. I've worked at private companies where some people goof off all the time. It's all in where you work and what has to be done.
posted by wondermouse at 8:09 PM on July 9, 2010
posted by wondermouse at 8:09 PM on July 9, 2010
Govvie here. I work with other gov't civilians, active-duty military, and contractors. Those who sit around to collect a paycheck do exist, but the overwhelming majority of folks really do care, constantly strive to get better at what they do, and are generally among the most conscientious people I've ever worked with. Those that aren't are generally marginalized by their peers and put out to pasture by their supervisors. (That is changing, however: I've actually seen gov. civilians dismissed for, shall we say, persistent issues.)
The job security is good, the bennies are solid, and I know that short of rank incompetence or gross malfeasance, I'll have a job as long as I wish. I'm also confident that my competence and ambition are the primary determiners of what sort of career that will be. I can't say that in the private sector, or in academe, where too often personality issues are a much bigger factor than they should be. (Yup, I've worked in the private sector and in academe.)
I work hard, perform well above my pay grade, and put in undocumented time because it's the right thing to do. Most of my colleagues do the same.
posted by Emperor SnooKloze at 8:31 PM on July 9, 2010
The job security is good, the bennies are solid, and I know that short of rank incompetence or gross malfeasance, I'll have a job as long as I wish. I'm also confident that my competence and ambition are the primary determiners of what sort of career that will be. I can't say that in the private sector, or in academe, where too often personality issues are a much bigger factor than they should be. (Yup, I've worked in the private sector and in academe.)
I work hard, perform well above my pay grade, and put in undocumented time because it's the right thing to do. Most of my colleagues do the same.
posted by Emperor SnooKloze at 8:31 PM on July 9, 2010
On the whole my experience working for the Feds was very positive. We worked VERY hard and long, long hours but it was meaningful work and the caliber of people was outstanding. The work life balance was respected and it's nice to be a part of really long-term studies and projects. There are still real visionaries in the Federal govt and it's wonderful to work as part of a group under one of them. Each agency has it's own culture as far as dress codes, flex time, bureaucracy etc but on the whole it's a respectful atmosphere and employees are paid reasonably, treated well and tend to stay for extended periods. It's so hard to hire anyone they really don't want you to quit!
Having said that it is damn hard to fire someone so what happens to that very small percentage of useless people is that they get shunted off to some equally useless position/group and everyone forgets they exist. We shared a building at one point with a small working group that from the regional manager to the secretary was pretty much openly acknowledged as dead wood. They did nothing except gossip, complain and back stab each other and resisted taking on any actual tasks. They were the most miserable people I've ever met! Make sure that's not who you are signing up to work with and you'll be fine.
posted by fshgrl at 10:26 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Having said that it is damn hard to fire someone so what happens to that very small percentage of useless people is that they get shunted off to some equally useless position/group and everyone forgets they exist. We shared a building at one point with a small working group that from the regional manager to the secretary was pretty much openly acknowledged as dead wood. They did nothing except gossip, complain and back stab each other and resisted taking on any actual tasks. They were the most miserable people I've ever met! Make sure that's not who you are signing up to work with and you'll be fine.
posted by fshgrl at 10:26 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
This is exactly what I do . I am a network tech at a library. Got my job through civil service.
Government work rocks because atleast here we dont have to worry about making a profit. there is that urgency to get things back up when they go down but less panic and stuff.
I am in a union and you really do have to do something awfully stupid to get fired BUT if your low man on the totem pole and they need to cut the budget you can be laid off very quickly . so make sure you do not screw up in that 6 -1 year period.
I find government wokr much better then the private world.
I am lucky to be working at a library in a rich town so i usually get to use top of the line equipment. heck here we have just got a heavy duty server and are virtualizing all our older servers.
posted by majortom1981 at 5:03 AM on July 10, 2010
Government work rocks because atleast here we dont have to worry about making a profit. there is that urgency to get things back up when they go down but less panic and stuff.
I am in a union and you really do have to do something awfully stupid to get fired BUT if your low man on the totem pole and they need to cut the budget you can be laid off very quickly . so make sure you do not screw up in that 6 -1 year period.
I find government wokr much better then the private world.
I am lucky to be working at a library in a rich town so i usually get to use top of the line equipment. heck here we have just got a heavy duty server and are virtualizing all our older servers.
posted by majortom1981 at 5:03 AM on July 10, 2010
Having worked as both a government employee and a federal contractor, I can say that nearly all federal employees I've worked with are competent, dedicated professionals who don't spend their time goofing off.
Of course, the relative difficulty associated with penalizing or firing a non-productive federal employee (vice working around them) leads to the accumulation of some 'dead wood' employees who remain on the job and are simply pushed to the margins. These employees are less likely to pop up in environments with fewer worker protections or greater individual accountability (e.g., private sector), but they are still by far the exception in the federal workforce. Everyone knows who they are, and they do not get promoted or rewarded much beyond cost of living increases or tenure-based step increases. They are barnacles on the ship of state.
That being said, it isn't uncommon for federal employees to become a bit 'soft,' insisting on clocking out after working a 40 hour week, taking advantage of every possible benefit that is offered, etc. These, and the stability really are minor perks that come in return for working for a giant bureaucracy that will overwhelm you with red tape, and may not pay as well as private sector alternatives.
In academia a similar (if not stronger) incentive hits once someone receives tenure. While there are the exceptional cases of faculty members who, upon receiving tenure, suddenly stop being productive, they are also extremely rare.
posted by i love cheese at 7:24 AM on July 10, 2010
Of course, the relative difficulty associated with penalizing or firing a non-productive federal employee (vice working around them) leads to the accumulation of some 'dead wood' employees who remain on the job and are simply pushed to the margins. These employees are less likely to pop up in environments with fewer worker protections or greater individual accountability (e.g., private sector), but they are still by far the exception in the federal workforce. Everyone knows who they are, and they do not get promoted or rewarded much beyond cost of living increases or tenure-based step increases. They are barnacles on the ship of state.
That being said, it isn't uncommon for federal employees to become a bit 'soft,' insisting on clocking out after working a 40 hour week, taking advantage of every possible benefit that is offered, etc. These, and the stability really are minor perks that come in return for working for a giant bureaucracy that will overwhelm you with red tape, and may not pay as well as private sector alternatives.
In academia a similar (if not stronger) incentive hits once someone receives tenure. While there are the exceptional cases of faculty members who, upon receiving tenure, suddenly stop being productive, they are also extremely rare.
posted by i love cheese at 7:24 AM on July 10, 2010
Depends very much on the agency and office. I know some federal employees who take their work incredibly seriously, and are promoted and fired based on monthly performance reviews; I know people who work at other agencies who I'm not sure are competent to scramble eggs in the morning. Not sure how to tell one from the other without asking employees.
posted by miyabo at 10:54 AM on July 10, 2010
posted by miyabo at 10:54 AM on July 10, 2010
It probably varies by agency, but you might want to do some digging and figure out exactly what type of IT work you will be doing. I work for a sub-agency of the USDA and our network infrastructure and other IT stuff (web services etc) is at least 5 years behind current technology. For instance we are still using Windows XP and IE 6. Not allowed to upgrade. Our local fileserver is like 6 years old. We got a new one almost a year ago, and it's still sitting on the floor because the Powers That Be (in the state office I guess) haven't decided to hook it up yet and won't give us an answer. I don't even know what our local intranet is, I'm guessing 10-baseT because it's super slow. Our office with 20+ employees is connected to a measly T1 so we spend quite some time sitting around waiting for the network to load instead of doing actual work. I talked to colleague in another office and I think they have dialup since he said it takes him a 20 minutes to load stuff that we can load in 30 seconds (really though, at home I can load the same site in 3 seconds... it's ridiculous).
Oh and did I mention that our office is the highest-staffed and busiest in the entire nation? And that's what we have to deal with. It is very frustrating.
So yeah, make sure you know what you're getting yourself into. I get the feeling that the IT people in our agency don't really know what they are doing and don't care (I used to be somewhat into IT stuff several years ago, and I've asked some questions of our IT guys and I know they've given me the wrong answer, so I just stopped caring, too. I don't know where they get these people. Our national servers are down once or twice a week, stuff like that. Something is always broken.).
posted by buckaroo_benzai at 12:27 PM on July 10, 2010
Oh and did I mention that our office is the highest-staffed and busiest in the entire nation? And that's what we have to deal with. It is very frustrating.
So yeah, make sure you know what you're getting yourself into. I get the feeling that the IT people in our agency don't really know what they are doing and don't care (I used to be somewhat into IT stuff several years ago, and I've asked some questions of our IT guys and I know they've given me the wrong answer, so I just stopped caring, too. I don't know where they get these people. Our national servers are down once or twice a week, stuff like that. Something is always broken.).
posted by buckaroo_benzai at 12:27 PM on July 10, 2010
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posted by Wordwoman at 5:56 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]