Hot Roof
March 3, 2005 10:36 PM Subscribe
Cooling my apartment: advice needed from experts in the fields of air conditioning and building codes, and, as a last resort, lawyers.
I own an 800sq ft suite on the top floor an apartment building. A couple of years ago, the roof was refurbished by what turned out to be a low-bidding, shady firm. They abandoned the job halfway through, after causing much damage and inconvenience during the rainy season.
Emergency patch-up repairs were performed and a lawsuit is still pending against the contractor, but the end result of the saga was that the original reflective roof coating was never restored, leaving a bare black asphalt surface, which soaks up heat during the day and radiates it into the building at night.
The temperature inside my apartment now regularly rises above 45C (~110F) between noon and 4am during the summer months. This is of course extremely uncomfortable, and I'm worried about long term damage to my computers and appliances.
Strata rules prohibit the installation of wall-mounted air conditioners, so I researched portable air conditioning units. The largest commonly available ones I could find are around 13000 BTU / 1700W, rated for a floor area of 400sq ft. This means that I would need at least two units; possibly more to get rid of the heat. Apart from the (high) initial expense, the cost of electricity to run two air conditioners almost continuously for several months would be more than I am willing to spend.
What alternatives do I have? Would installing a false ceiling with insulating material sandwiched between the original and new ceiling do the trick? How thick would such insulation need to be?
A desperate option could be to try to get a municipal inspector to condemn the building as unsuitable for habitation, in order to force the strata council to complete the roof repairs by applying a suitable surface coating. Unfortunately it appears that local building codes only specify minimum indoor winter temperatures, not maximum summer temperatures. What are my chances of resolving the issue through the adversarial route?
I own an 800sq ft suite on the top floor an apartment building. A couple of years ago, the roof was refurbished by what turned out to be a low-bidding, shady firm. They abandoned the job halfway through, after causing much damage and inconvenience during the rainy season.
Emergency patch-up repairs were performed and a lawsuit is still pending against the contractor, but the end result of the saga was that the original reflective roof coating was never restored, leaving a bare black asphalt surface, which soaks up heat during the day and radiates it into the building at night.
The temperature inside my apartment now regularly rises above 45C (~110F) between noon and 4am during the summer months. This is of course extremely uncomfortable, and I'm worried about long term damage to my computers and appliances.
Strata rules prohibit the installation of wall-mounted air conditioners, so I researched portable air conditioning units. The largest commonly available ones I could find are around 13000 BTU / 1700W, rated for a floor area of 400sq ft. This means that I would need at least two units; possibly more to get rid of the heat. Apart from the (high) initial expense, the cost of electricity to run two air conditioners almost continuously for several months would be more than I am willing to spend.
What alternatives do I have? Would installing a false ceiling with insulating material sandwiched between the original and new ceiling do the trick? How thick would such insulation need to be?
A desperate option could be to try to get a municipal inspector to condemn the building as unsuitable for habitation, in order to force the strata council to complete the roof repairs by applying a suitable surface coating. Unfortunately it appears that local building codes only specify minimum indoor winter temperatures, not maximum summer temperatures. What are my chances of resolving the issue through the adversarial route?
Yeah, how about a bucket of white paint, for now? You're pretty far north. The air temperature should stay fairly cool otherwise, huh?
posted by atchafalaya at 5:04 AM on March 4, 2005
posted by atchafalaya at 5:04 AM on March 4, 2005
A white tent-like structure on the roof, allowing air under the shade provided. Probably it would need flaps to allow air through, to reduce wind drag.
adversarial route: Have you consulted your insurance company? If you suffer a loss from the heat, they have incentive to be involved. In fact, maybe you already have a loss.
posted by Goofyy at 5:19 AM on March 4, 2005
adversarial route: Have you consulted your insurance company? If you suffer a loss from the heat, they have incentive to be involved. In fact, maybe you already have a loss.
posted by Goofyy at 5:19 AM on March 4, 2005
You really should get the problem fixed properly...
Throwing tons of air conditioning at it is going to be ugly, and maybe impossible. You may not have the electrical service required...
Paint won't help unless it is specially designed to be reflective in the IR band. Check out the previous thread Why are radiators usually painted white?. Also, you probably want an space with open air flow below a reflector. Even if the reflector is working well it will heat up, might as well use the atmosphere to eliminate that heat for you.
Six inches of insulation will likely help, but I don't know how much. I wouldn't let andrew cooke's large thermal mass thing stop you. I'm sure his point is important in environmentally friendly heat management, but...
The thing that hasn't been covered yet is ventilation. There is no good reason for the temperature to be 45... Open a window, put a fan in it. Open two windows with one fan pointed in and one pointed out.
I have used this 7,500 BTU portable unit to great effect in my basement apartment. Most of the heating in my place is caused by occupancy (me and my computers), so all I have to do is move the thing to the room I am using. The big vent pipe is ugly, but my apartment suits it fairly well. The HVAC issues in a basement are very different from a penthouse, of course...
posted by Chuckles at 6:32 AM on March 4, 2005
Throwing tons of air conditioning at it is going to be ugly, and maybe impossible. You may not have the electrical service required...
Paint won't help unless it is specially designed to be reflective in the IR band. Check out the previous thread Why are radiators usually painted white?. Also, you probably want an space with open air flow below a reflector. Even if the reflector is working well it will heat up, might as well use the atmosphere to eliminate that heat for you.
Six inches of insulation will likely help, but I don't know how much. I wouldn't let andrew cooke's large thermal mass thing stop you. I'm sure his point is important in environmentally friendly heat management, but...
The thing that hasn't been covered yet is ventilation. There is no good reason for the temperature to be 45... Open a window, put a fan in it. Open two windows with one fan pointed in and one pointed out.
I have used this 7,500 BTU portable unit to great effect in my basement apartment. Most of the heating in my place is caused by occupancy (me and my computers), so all I have to do is move the thing to the room I am using. The big vent pipe is ugly, but my apartment suits it fairly well. The HVAC issues in a basement are very different from a penthouse, of course...
posted by Chuckles at 6:32 AM on March 4, 2005
From your use of centigrade, I can't necessarily assume that U.S. law applies; but there's a few principles I think may have cross-application.
All of the cooling options sound like they require a great deal of effort. Have you considered moving out? In most U.S. jurisdictions, a residential lease includes an "implied warranty of habitability." Which means that if the apartment becomes an unliveable space, you can (at minimum) breach the lease without being penalized. 110F is far too hot to expect of anyone who doesn't live in the middle of the desert. And some jurisdictions will allow you to place rent money in escrow until the condition is corrected.
I would suggest checking out the following resources: If you're living in a decent-sized urban center, you may want to consider contacting a "Tenants' Union" or similar advocacy group, who can provide a more complete answer to this question. Or there may be government publications that answer your question, usually issued by state attorneys general. (Again, no idea what the international equivalents may be.)
posted by Scooter at 8:29 AM on March 4, 2005
All of the cooling options sound like they require a great deal of effort. Have you considered moving out? In most U.S. jurisdictions, a residential lease includes an "implied warranty of habitability." Which means that if the apartment becomes an unliveable space, you can (at minimum) breach the lease without being penalized. 110F is far too hot to expect of anyone who doesn't live in the middle of the desert. And some jurisdictions will allow you to place rent money in escrow until the condition is corrected.
I would suggest checking out the following resources: If you're living in a decent-sized urban center, you may want to consider contacting a "Tenants' Union" or similar advocacy group, who can provide a more complete answer to this question. Or there may be government publications that answer your question, usually issued by state attorneys general. (Again, no idea what the international equivalents may be.)
posted by Scooter at 8:29 AM on March 4, 2005
Best answer: Scooter, "I own an 800sq ft suite..."
Deepspace, I'd be more worried about whether that kind of sustained heat exposure will damage humans. How much cooler is the temp when you leave the suite? What is the extreme temp change doing to you, and what about the elevated risk to an elderly or infant visitor?
This shouldn't be your financial responsibility to come up with a workaround. If those in charge of the roof do not respond to a firm request for immediate action, I'd say it's time to bring in an attorney. Just because the mere spectre of lawsuit is a highly effective motivator, especially once it's obvious how much liability they've left themselves open to.
posted by nakedcodemonkey at 11:03 AM on March 4, 2005
Deepspace, I'd be more worried about whether that kind of sustained heat exposure will damage humans. How much cooler is the temp when you leave the suite? What is the extreme temp change doing to you, and what about the elevated risk to an elderly or infant visitor?
This shouldn't be your financial responsibility to come up with a workaround. If those in charge of the roof do not respond to a firm request for immediate action, I'd say it's time to bring in an attorney. Just because the mere spectre of lawsuit is a highly effective motivator, especially once it's obvious how much liability they've left themselves open to.
posted by nakedcodemonkey at 11:03 AM on March 4, 2005
There's something called a swamp cooler which uses evaporation for cooling. I've known people in warmer climates who used them successfully. In one house where we had a well and didn'y pay for water, we put a sprinkler on the roof on low pressure and it cooled the house appreciably.
Even though white or silver paint won't reflect perfectly, a white or silver surface won't absorb as much heat as a black one.
This is very much a problem that should be resolved by the whole building, not just you.
posted by theora55 at 12:25 PM on March 4, 2005
Even though white or silver paint won't reflect perfectly, a white or silver surface won't absorb as much heat as a black one.
This is very much a problem that should be resolved by the whole building, not just you.
posted by theora55 at 12:25 PM on March 4, 2005
White or black paint might look 'white' or 'black' in the visible spectrum but all normal paint is basically 'black' in the infrared.
Radiative heat transfer.
posted by Chuckles at 1:35 PM on March 4, 2005
Radiative heat transfer.
posted by Chuckles at 1:35 PM on March 4, 2005
Best answer: This is very much a problem that should be resolved by the whole building, not just you.
Strongly seconded. Even if this heat problem didn't exist, the mere fact that the roof work has been left in an incomplete and shoddy condition (for several years...?) is a problem that should matter to everyone who has an ownership interest in the building. A sound roof is critical in a variety of ways, including keeping a lot of yucky stuff out of places where they'd be able to wreak an awful lot of damage. Sanitary problems, structural weakening, etc. If anything serious happens because of the roof's inadequate condition, everyone's property value wil take the hit and everyone gets the fun of being implicated in any lawsuits or (god forbid) a criminal negligance investigation. Yes, now we're getting into Worst Case Scenario territory but the point is there's real possibility of a problem well beyond mere personal inconvenience. Focus on getting someone to take responsibility for dealing with it at the source.
In the meantime, good grief, since they've waived their own duty to get the roof adequately repaired, surely it should be no problem to also waive the A/C rule temporarily (and *cough* at their expense). If they aren't reasonable about that, just hold on to a written copy of their refusal. If there ever is heat injury or property damage, that letter will be leverage for your lawyer or insurer.
Good luck!
posted by nakedcodemonkey at 6:25 PM on March 4, 2005
Strongly seconded. Even if this heat problem didn't exist, the mere fact that the roof work has been left in an incomplete and shoddy condition (for several years...?) is a problem that should matter to everyone who has an ownership interest in the building. A sound roof is critical in a variety of ways, including keeping a lot of yucky stuff out of places where they'd be able to wreak an awful lot of damage. Sanitary problems, structural weakening, etc. If anything serious happens because of the roof's inadequate condition, everyone's property value wil take the hit and everyone gets the fun of being implicated in any lawsuits or (god forbid) a criminal negligance investigation. Yes, now we're getting into Worst Case Scenario territory but the point is there's real possibility of a problem well beyond mere personal inconvenience. Focus on getting someone to take responsibility for dealing with it at the source.
In the meantime, good grief, since they've waived their own duty to get the roof adequately repaired, surely it should be no problem to also waive the A/C rule temporarily (and *cough* at their expense). If they aren't reasonable about that, just hold on to a written copy of their refusal. If there ever is heat injury or property damage, that letter will be leverage for your lawyer or insurer.
Good luck!
posted by nakedcodemonkey at 6:25 PM on March 4, 2005
This thread is closed to new comments.
i think insulation would be too complicated - you'd probably want both an air space and, below, something with a high themal mass (the coolest house i've lived in was built like that - 3 or 4 inches of adobe/earth, above the ceiling, then air under a "triangular" roof.
posted by andrew cooke at 2:37 AM on March 4, 2005