Help me put my foot down with others and choose better friends in the future
July 7, 2010 10:43 PM Subscribe
It has recently come to my attention that I have serious issues enforcing healthy boundaries with others. Because I do not effectively enforce boundaries, I end up caught in totally ridiculous situations that I am very resentful about. When I do enforce boundaries, the response is typically that I am being hypersensitive/petty/overreacting or being a "B****";
sometimes maybe I am guilty of this, but other times, I am pretty sure that I am being reasonable. Regardless of what is rational, I feel very guilty when I have drawn the line with a person and this has been a huge struggle. Does anyone have any suggestions for what I can do to become less of a doormat and be more assertive? I must learn to empose healthy boundaries with others early on in relationships so that I can avoid getting caught up in unreasonable situations that develop into a dramatic mess? Also, are their any suggestions for how I can choose more healthy friendships with other women who are not inclined to use others? Any tips on how to screen potential friends for boundary-busting behavior so that I can avoid it? Thank you for taking the time to consider my question--it's very appreciated!
Details:
I feel like I must comply with the unreasonable expectations of others in order to maintain their friendship/love/acceptance.
Some 'friends' of mine have stopped being my friend because I did put my foot down when I had been taken advantage of for far too long. (I am consumed with guilt in spite of the fact that I know it's not rational to feel like that.) I aim to avoid this again by not making friends with people like this in the first place. I need suggestions on how to screen potential friends for loseriness quickly so that I don't waste time building pointless friendships with them.
I have a pattern of making friends with loserish gals. These people who I choose to spend time with tend to have no good jobs/education/ambition/hobbies/spine/locus of control) and just want someone around who will take care of them (parents/boyfriend/whoever happens to be there).
I would rather have no friends the sort of jerks who I have mistaken for friends in the past.
If anyone needs specific examples, please let me know and I can provide some.
Thanks again!
sometimes maybe I am guilty of this, but other times, I am pretty sure that I am being reasonable. Regardless of what is rational, I feel very guilty when I have drawn the line with a person and this has been a huge struggle. Does anyone have any suggestions for what I can do to become less of a doormat and be more assertive? I must learn to empose healthy boundaries with others early on in relationships so that I can avoid getting caught up in unreasonable situations that develop into a dramatic mess? Also, are their any suggestions for how I can choose more healthy friendships with other women who are not inclined to use others? Any tips on how to screen potential friends for boundary-busting behavior so that I can avoid it? Thank you for taking the time to consider my question--it's very appreciated!
Details:
I feel like I must comply with the unreasonable expectations of others in order to maintain their friendship/love/acceptance.
Some 'friends' of mine have stopped being my friend because I did put my foot down when I had been taken advantage of for far too long. (I am consumed with guilt in spite of the fact that I know it's not rational to feel like that.) I aim to avoid this again by not making friends with people like this in the first place. I need suggestions on how to screen potential friends for loseriness quickly so that I don't waste time building pointless friendships with them.
I have a pattern of making friends with loserish gals. These people who I choose to spend time with tend to have no good jobs/education/ambition/hobbies/spine/locus of control) and just want someone around who will take care of them (parents/boyfriend/whoever happens to be there).
I would rather have no friends the sort of jerks who I have mistaken for friends in the past.
If anyone needs specific examples, please let me know and I can provide some.
Thanks again!
Can you provide some examples?
posted by Zé Pequeno at 12:06 AM on July 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Zé Pequeno at 12:06 AM on July 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Exactly as you said, set boundaries from the outset. Don't let someone start taking advantage of you just because you want to be their friend.
Ask for help from other people in proportion to the help you are giving to them. If you're happy to let a friend spend a couple of hours unloading their life problems onto you, then they should be willing to do the same for you. If they're not willing, then they're not friends. Don't bother telling them "You never listen to me! You are not acting like my friend!". Just don't hang out with them very often or do them favours. Don't give long excuses for whatever it is you don't want to do. You don't need an excuse.
Of course, sometimes friends are just in a bad place and not able to give back for the moment; but to preserve your sanity, it's good to keep the resulting temporarily one-sided friendships confined to those with old friends who you already know would be there for you if they could.
I suspect that if you stop letting people take advantage of you, the kind of unpleasant friends that you don't want will stay well away from you. You won't need to screen them out, they will screen themselves out.
posted by emilyw at 12:51 AM on July 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
Ask for help from other people in proportion to the help you are giving to them. If you're happy to let a friend spend a couple of hours unloading their life problems onto you, then they should be willing to do the same for you. If they're not willing, then they're not friends. Don't bother telling them "You never listen to me! You are not acting like my friend!". Just don't hang out with them very often or do them favours. Don't give long excuses for whatever it is you don't want to do. You don't need an excuse.
Of course, sometimes friends are just in a bad place and not able to give back for the moment; but to preserve your sanity, it's good to keep the resulting temporarily one-sided friendships confined to those with old friends who you already know would be there for you if they could.
I suspect that if you stop letting people take advantage of you, the kind of unpleasant friends that you don't want will stay well away from you. You won't need to screen them out, they will screen themselves out.
posted by emilyw at 12:51 AM on July 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I'm guessing, since these problematic "friends" just want someone to take care of them / want to take advantage of you, that you find yourself agreeing to do things that you'd really rather not do. You establish a pattern of doing favors beyond what you feel good about, and when you start saying no you get a lot of blowback. You are so uncomfortable with criticism that nagging guilt over having stood up for yourself becomes an additional burden. Speculating a little further, I'd guess that anxiety over that guilt might lead you to relent and agree to some onerous requests, reinforcing the pattern.
I agree w/those above saying that the easiest way to avoid such relationships is to avoid establishing the pattern in the first place. Learn not to avoid saying 'yes' reflexively, even when the favor being asked for seems small. One way to do this is to refuse to be rushed. Rather than allowing yourself to be pressured into making an instantaneous decision, your immediate answer might be, "I'm not sure if I can, but I'll get back to you about it." Take the time to make thoughtful decisions BEFORE you say yes or no.
The best (well, only) book I've read on this issue is Susan Forward's Emotional Blackmail. I found it very helpful.
posted by jon1270 at 3:22 AM on July 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
I agree w/those above saying that the easiest way to avoid such relationships is to avoid establishing the pattern in the first place. Learn not to avoid saying 'yes' reflexively, even when the favor being asked for seems small. One way to do this is to refuse to be rushed. Rather than allowing yourself to be pressured into making an instantaneous decision, your immediate answer might be, "I'm not sure if I can, but I'll get back to you about it." Take the time to make thoughtful decisions BEFORE you say yes or no.
The best (well, only) book I've read on this issue is Susan Forward's Emotional Blackmail. I found it very helpful.
posted by jon1270 at 3:22 AM on July 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Don't argue with people about stuff. Just remember that whatever you put up with, you get more of. So you have to decide what hills you want to die on.
I used to have a problem with being constantly stood up or having my arrangements flaked on or treated disrespectfully. I mean a serious problem, such that only 1 in 10 arrangements actually happened as planned.
This used to drive me crazy, and of course my irritation tended to show whether I wanted it to or not, which translated into an excellent opportunity to blame me for getting flaked on. See, she's too needy/prickly/whatever, no wonder she gets blown out. A person shouldn't care so much about this. Blah blah.
I resolved that the first time somebody flaked on me I wouldn't co-operate. As in, if somebody cancelled at short notice without a truly excellent excuse, I wouldn't cooperate with their attempts at rescheduling. I figured they could always come back another time and try to arrange something new from scratch. But I wanted to ensure that the first time they tried to do something I didn't like, they would not get rewarded for it.
Of course if someone came to me a week in advance and said "I have to do X so could we rearrange our appointment to Y for the nth?" I'd go along with it. If somebody came to me a day or two in advance and said "I can't make Y tomorrow, I have to [do something reasonably foreseeable] [do something not very obviously more important], can we do this on the nth/some other time" then I wouldn't go along with it or try to initiate anything with them again. If they came to me with a credible invitation, I pressed the reset button. If not, I just left them alone.
I wouldn't hold a grudge against the person doing this, and I wouldn't speculate about their motives. I certainly wouldn't show them any irritation. I wouldn't give any explanation. By no means would I ever think of trying to correct them or tell them they were in the wrong. I would just simply, benignly, not cooperate. "Ah too bad, I have plans on the nth, sorry to miss you."
When I explained (to unrelated parties) that I was adopting this strategy, they thought I was being unduly harsh, and the person might really have a good reason or they might think that the appointment wasn't so important or they might regard it as nice-but-cancellable and they probably didn't mean me any disrespect etc etc etc. Well they may have been right, but I was tired of having to go through that thought process over and over again while fuming alone on street corners. I decided that all I know is this: I don't like getting flaked on, I don't cooperate when someone flakes on me.
If somebody flaked on me for a Y appointment twice in a row I would stop making arrangements to do Y with them. If somebody flaked on me three times in a row I would mentally de-friend them because they obviously had no interest in seeing me. I wouldn't burn bridges, I would just stop considering them a friend. It has happened that, years later, they would come back of their own accord, often with more maturity and ready to make a fresh start, even eager to make a better impression. The same tended to be true of me.
Now, strangely enough, I don't get flaked on very much at all and I consequently don't care so much about it - the way you're not supposed to. The quality of my friendships has gone up too. It helps that I realized it's a big world full of potential friends, ready to walk around the next corner at any moment.
It's important to do this the first time because some people, when they strike up new relationships of whatever kind, will begin by consciously or unconsciously testing your boundaries to see what they can get away with and it's very difficult to renegotiate boundaries later. Of course the person may just be flaky and have no agenda whether conscious or unconscious. In that case they will have to take their flakiness elsewhere, bless their hearts. On the other hand I've had people consciously and deliberately set me up for extended periods of what was, without exaggeration, social sadomasochism[1] that I didn't consent to participate in. If you don't cooperate with these people from the get-go, they may be forced to go and find an actual, consenting masochist to be terribly nice to.
[1] No, not sexual. Social. Much easier to be covert with social sadomasochism and you can keep 100% of the gratification for yourself, although you still get to accuse your victim of enjoying it.
posted by tel3path at 3:26 AM on July 8, 2010 [16 favorites]
I used to have a problem with being constantly stood up or having my arrangements flaked on or treated disrespectfully. I mean a serious problem, such that only 1 in 10 arrangements actually happened as planned.
This used to drive me crazy, and of course my irritation tended to show whether I wanted it to or not, which translated into an excellent opportunity to blame me for getting flaked on. See, she's too needy/prickly/whatever, no wonder she gets blown out. A person shouldn't care so much about this. Blah blah.
I resolved that the first time somebody flaked on me I wouldn't co-operate. As in, if somebody cancelled at short notice without a truly excellent excuse, I wouldn't cooperate with their attempts at rescheduling. I figured they could always come back another time and try to arrange something new from scratch. But I wanted to ensure that the first time they tried to do something I didn't like, they would not get rewarded for it.
Of course if someone came to me a week in advance and said "I have to do X so could we rearrange our appointment to Y for the nth?" I'd go along with it. If somebody came to me a day or two in advance and said "I can't make Y tomorrow, I have to [do something reasonably foreseeable] [do something not very obviously more important], can we do this on the nth/some other time" then I wouldn't go along with it or try to initiate anything with them again. If they came to me with a credible invitation, I pressed the reset button. If not, I just left them alone.
I wouldn't hold a grudge against the person doing this, and I wouldn't speculate about their motives. I certainly wouldn't show them any irritation. I wouldn't give any explanation. By no means would I ever think of trying to correct them or tell them they were in the wrong. I would just simply, benignly, not cooperate. "Ah too bad, I have plans on the nth, sorry to miss you."
When I explained (to unrelated parties) that I was adopting this strategy, they thought I was being unduly harsh, and the person might really have a good reason or they might think that the appointment wasn't so important or they might regard it as nice-but-cancellable and they probably didn't mean me any disrespect etc etc etc. Well they may have been right, but I was tired of having to go through that thought process over and over again while fuming alone on street corners. I decided that all I know is this: I don't like getting flaked on, I don't cooperate when someone flakes on me.
If somebody flaked on me for a Y appointment twice in a row I would stop making arrangements to do Y with them. If somebody flaked on me three times in a row I would mentally de-friend them because they obviously had no interest in seeing me. I wouldn't burn bridges, I would just stop considering them a friend. It has happened that, years later, they would come back of their own accord, often with more maturity and ready to make a fresh start, even eager to make a better impression. The same tended to be true of me.
Now, strangely enough, I don't get flaked on very much at all and I consequently don't care so much about it - the way you're not supposed to. The quality of my friendships has gone up too. It helps that I realized it's a big world full of potential friends, ready to walk around the next corner at any moment.
It's important to do this the first time because some people, when they strike up new relationships of whatever kind, will begin by consciously or unconsciously testing your boundaries to see what they can get away with and it's very difficult to renegotiate boundaries later. Of course the person may just be flaky and have no agenda whether conscious or unconscious. In that case they will have to take their flakiness elsewhere, bless their hearts. On the other hand I've had people consciously and deliberately set me up for extended periods of what was, without exaggeration, social sadomasochism[1] that I didn't consent to participate in. If you don't cooperate with these people from the get-go, they may be forced to go and find an actual, consenting masochist to be terribly nice to.
[1] No, not sexual. Social. Much easier to be covert with social sadomasochism and you can keep 100% of the gratification for yourself, although you still get to accuse your victim of enjoying it.
posted by tel3path at 3:26 AM on July 8, 2010 [16 favorites]
Best answer: People in your circle who use you will soon drift away once you stop letting them use you and are persisting with these new boundaries.
And potential new 'friends' like that will no longer be interested in becoming your friends.
So if you manage to get over whatever hang-ups you have about saying 'no' to these people and the problem will take care of itself. But it may be worth exploring why you feel guilty about not letting people use you as that's not a healthy response.
If you are unsure about how being a nice and helpful person is compatible with setting boundaries look around your acquaintance, identify everybody who's generally considered to be nice and helpful AND sets boundaries and observe how they do it, or even go and talk to them.
posted by koahiatamadl at 5:07 AM on July 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
And potential new 'friends' like that will no longer be interested in becoming your friends.
So if you manage to get over whatever hang-ups you have about saying 'no' to these people and the problem will take care of itself. But it may be worth exploring why you feel guilty about not letting people use you as that's not a healthy response.
If you are unsure about how being a nice and helpful person is compatible with setting boundaries look around your acquaintance, identify everybody who's generally considered to be nice and helpful AND sets boundaries and observe how they do it, or even go and talk to them.
posted by koahiatamadl at 5:07 AM on July 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Here's another way to look at it: There are people out there who would love to be your friend, but your lack of boundaries and constant focus on other peoples' needs and feelings is driving them crazy! They want to get to know you, but it's impossible when you are unable to be honest about who you are and what you need and want.
I know a few people like this. They seem super nice and cool but whenever I'm around them I feel like they're just telling me what I want to hear or trying to predict how I feel and what I want. They're the people who say, "Oh whatever you want is fine with me!" but you can kinda sense it's not fine but they're not saying so and it makes you feel like a jerk for always getting your way, because that's how normal people who respect others and have a sense of fairness feel in those situations. However, selfish people don't mind at all! And so they end up surrounded by selfish, demanding people and wonder why.
Maybe that doesn't describe you exactly, but just know that when you don't have healthy boundaries, not only do you attract people who take advantage of you, but you are also actively turning off the people who would treat you right.
posted by cottonswab at 6:10 AM on July 8, 2010 [13 favorites]
I know a few people like this. They seem super nice and cool but whenever I'm around them I feel like they're just telling me what I want to hear or trying to predict how I feel and what I want. They're the people who say, "Oh whatever you want is fine with me!" but you can kinda sense it's not fine but they're not saying so and it makes you feel like a jerk for always getting your way, because that's how normal people who respect others and have a sense of fairness feel in those situations. However, selfish people don't mind at all! And so they end up surrounded by selfish, demanding people and wonder why.
Maybe that doesn't describe you exactly, but just know that when you don't have healthy boundaries, not only do you attract people who take advantage of you, but you are also actively turning off the people who would treat you right.
posted by cottonswab at 6:10 AM on July 8, 2010 [13 favorites]
Best answer: One thing I read in your question is that you put others ahead of yourself, up until you're able to set a boundary, then it sounds like you overcompensate in the other direction and actually get into a judging mode. My experience of that kind of overcompensation is that neither extreme works in terms of fostering healthy relationships.
I also read you demonizing what you thought were friendships because at some point they went off the rails. In truth, it takes 2 people to make a friendship. The downsides of the friendships can't all have been the fact that they are losers, or at least, that seems unlikely to me. Consider what you got out of those relationships and honor the good times that you had. There's no need to consider them wastes of time just because they don't extend forever and ever.
The thing to take away from them though, is to be mindful when you feel like things aren't working, and see if there's a way to change your own behavior to be more in line with your own wants and needs. The same revelation you came to that made it possible to ask this question can be had every day, in smaller ways... "hey. friend, you're expecting too much, I'm tired and can't go to that thing with you. can we reschedule?" rather than just attending and suffering, then a week later realizing it and saying "i went to your stupid event! you never do anything for me!" Get the sources of conflict on the table and work them out, rather than putting up with them, letting them fester, and then explode. It takes practice to have healthy relationships.
You might google a bit for "avoiding codependency" and see what's out there. The pattern of consistently putting the needs of others ahead of your own, and of not knowing when to set boundaries are classic aspects of codependence. It's one line of inquiry that that may be useful to you in coming to understand your own behaviors.
posted by artlung at 6:34 AM on July 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
I also read you demonizing what you thought were friendships because at some point they went off the rails. In truth, it takes 2 people to make a friendship. The downsides of the friendships can't all have been the fact that they are losers, or at least, that seems unlikely to me. Consider what you got out of those relationships and honor the good times that you had. There's no need to consider them wastes of time just because they don't extend forever and ever.
The thing to take away from them though, is to be mindful when you feel like things aren't working, and see if there's a way to change your own behavior to be more in line with your own wants and needs. The same revelation you came to that made it possible to ask this question can be had every day, in smaller ways... "hey. friend, you're expecting too much, I'm tired and can't go to that thing with you. can we reschedule?" rather than just attending and suffering, then a week later realizing it and saying "i went to your stupid event! you never do anything for me!" Get the sources of conflict on the table and work them out, rather than putting up with them, letting them fester, and then explode. It takes practice to have healthy relationships.
You might google a bit for "avoiding codependency" and see what's out there. The pattern of consistently putting the needs of others ahead of your own, and of not knowing when to set boundaries are classic aspects of codependence. It's one line of inquiry that that may be useful to you in coming to understand your own behaviors.
posted by artlung at 6:34 AM on July 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I think the thing to do is understand what you're willing and able to do ahead of time - well ahead of time. What this really comes down to, though, is understanding yourself, and having a good grasp on your own time and energy at any point in time. If you need to, make up rules for yourself and abide by them, but it's good to know what things are getting on your nerves. What are you doing for other people that eventually you end up resenting? Are you cleaning their houses? Are you driving them around all the time? Cooking meals? Buying presents? Giving advice? Start setting policies internally about the things that have bugged you, and try to identify trends - if it's coming down to resources ("I am constantly spending money on gas and food for other people, and they never offer to buy me dinner or pay me for the rides!"), then try to make it clear up front that you're happy to give so-and-so a ride, but hey, times are tight and you'd like a few bucks for gas. If it comes down to *time* that's different. If you're *not* happy to give so-and-so a ride, because spending time with her is a trial and there are things you'd rather be doing and why can't she call on someone else to ferry her around for a change argh you're so sick of this, then you need to seriously cut down on the time you spend with that person at *all*. Being on output mode all the time is exhausting.
posted by lriG rorriM at 7:38 AM on July 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by lriG rorriM at 7:38 AM on July 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I need suggestions on how to screen potential friends for loseriness quickly so that I don't waste time building pointless friendships with them.
1. Do they pay for their own way when you go out to eat or other expense related group activities?
2. Do they make promises to other folks with your time/resources without asking you first? (Rides for others, helping others do something, expect you to drive them to 3 places when you only were going to 1, etc.)
If no to the first question or yes to the second question, don't waste your time with them.
Second, at some point, say, "No." to a request they have, even if it would be easy for you to fulfill. Watch the reaction- are they upset, aggressive, trying to guilt you, give you a billion reasons to help them? If you need a reason, "I'm busy", or "I'm tired" are perfect. See if they ask or press further. If so, you need to dump them.
You know, when you stop (feeding/giving rides/helping) people, and they disappear? That tells you what they were hanging around for. Suddenly you have a lot more money in your pocket and time on your hands.
Be a bitch. Be a happy, free, in control of your life because you're no one's fucking slave, mature, adult bitch.
posted by yeloson at 8:17 AM on July 8, 2010 [6 favorites]
1. Do they pay for their own way when you go out to eat or other expense related group activities?
2. Do they make promises to other folks with your time/resources without asking you first? (Rides for others, helping others do something, expect you to drive them to 3 places when you only were going to 1, etc.)
If no to the first question or yes to the second question, don't waste your time with them.
Second, at some point, say, "No." to a request they have, even if it would be easy for you to fulfill. Watch the reaction- are they upset, aggressive, trying to guilt you, give you a billion reasons to help them? If you need a reason, "I'm busy", or "I'm tired" are perfect. See if they ask or press further. If so, you need to dump them.
You know, when you stop (feeding/giving rides/helping) people, and they disappear? That tells you what they were hanging around for. Suddenly you have a lot more money in your pocket and time on your hands.
Be a bitch. Be a happy, free, in control of your life because you're no one's fucking slave, mature, adult bitch.
posted by yeloson at 8:17 AM on July 8, 2010 [6 favorites]
Best answer: This book might be helpful to you in determining what requests from others are reasonable and how to firmly decline any that are not.
Assertiveness also works as a litmus test for people without boundaries--if you can assert yours, they'll find someone else to glom onto.
posted by Lycaste at 8:58 AM on July 8, 2010
Assertiveness also works as a litmus test for people without boundaries--if you can assert yours, they'll find someone else to glom onto.
posted by Lycaste at 8:58 AM on July 8, 2010
Best answer: What yeloson says, plus the need to monitor friendships for more balance, in order to avoid this in the future.
"No" is a complete sentence that can work all by itself, if you choose to use it. It doesn't have to be accompanied by any explanation, because the other person might use that as leverage to negotiate a wedge into your needs, i.e. "If you're tired, we won't stay out too long." You can then tell them this isn't up for negotiation, and their response should tell you the rest.
posted by SillyShepherd at 9:29 AM on July 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
"No" is a complete sentence that can work all by itself, if you choose to use it. It doesn't have to be accompanied by any explanation, because the other person might use that as leverage to negotiate a wedge into your needs, i.e. "If you're tired, we won't stay out too long." You can then tell them this isn't up for negotiation, and their response should tell you the rest.
posted by SillyShepherd at 9:29 AM on July 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I need suggestions on how to screen potential friends for loseriness quickly...
These people who I choose to spend time with tend to have no good jobs/education/ambition/hobbies/spine/locus of control) and just want someone around who will take care of them (parents/boyfriend/whoever happens to be there).
This will form the basis for your screening. Think about why you made friends with these loserish gals. What draws you to them in the first place? What are you hoping for by befriending these people? Whatever you're doing now to befriend these types of people, you have to change it up. That might mean hanging out in different places, approaching people differently, choosing completely different people to befriend, having different expectations and assumptions for friendship, whatever.
I don't think you have a problem enforcing boundaries. The fact that people have stopped being your friend indicates that the boundary has worked. The problem is more so choosing who to be friends with, as you already realize. You already know what to do - now you have to do it, find out what works, what doesn't, and keep going forward.
posted by foxjacket at 9:36 AM on July 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
These people who I choose to spend time with tend to have no good jobs/education/ambition/hobbies/spine/locus of control) and just want someone around who will take care of them (parents/boyfriend/whoever happens to be there).
This will form the basis for your screening. Think about why you made friends with these loserish gals. What draws you to them in the first place? What are you hoping for by befriending these people? Whatever you're doing now to befriend these types of people, you have to change it up. That might mean hanging out in different places, approaching people differently, choosing completely different people to befriend, having different expectations and assumptions for friendship, whatever.
I don't think you have a problem enforcing boundaries. The fact that people have stopped being your friend indicates that the boundary has worked. The problem is more so choosing who to be friends with, as you already realize. You already know what to do - now you have to do it, find out what works, what doesn't, and keep going forward.
posted by foxjacket at 9:36 AM on July 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
Best answer: A thought: perhaps what you need help with is the way in which you're enforcing the boundaries. There's a really, really big difference between these two scenarios:
1. Going for months doing something for someone with no complaint, silently building up resentment until you finally explode because, dammit, they're taking advantage of you and it's not right and you deserve a little bit of courtesy from time to time too!
2. Helping someone out when you have the time, and when it starts to feel like an inequity in the relationship or a burden on you, bowing out by saying "hey, sorry, I've got other plans today" or "I know you're in a bind, but you didn't give me enough notice" or, simply "no, not today."
Your friends build up a mental picture of you, with expectations based on prior behavior. If they're not getting the whole picture or enough information, the picture is going to be flawed, and when you surprise them (by enforcing boundaries or standing up for yourself forcefully) it will seem out of character for you - from their point of view. This might be what's leading to words like 'bitch' being thrown around. If you give your friends a more consistent picture of what *you* want, what *you* like and what *you* enjoy doing, you'll be screening out people who can't handle you having your own life and interests.
posted by lriG rorriM at 10:11 AM on July 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
1. Going for months doing something for someone with no complaint, silently building up resentment until you finally explode because, dammit, they're taking advantage of you and it's not right and you deserve a little bit of courtesy from time to time too!
2. Helping someone out when you have the time, and when it starts to feel like an inequity in the relationship or a burden on you, bowing out by saying "hey, sorry, I've got other plans today" or "I know you're in a bind, but you didn't give me enough notice" or, simply "no, not today."
Your friends build up a mental picture of you, with expectations based on prior behavior. If they're not getting the whole picture or enough information, the picture is going to be flawed, and when you surprise them (by enforcing boundaries or standing up for yourself forcefully) it will seem out of character for you - from their point of view. This might be what's leading to words like 'bitch' being thrown around. If you give your friends a more consistent picture of what *you* want, what *you* like and what *you* enjoy doing, you'll be screening out people who can't handle you having your own life and interests.
posted by lriG rorriM at 10:11 AM on July 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
Best answer: People have given very good advice. But if I had read all this 15 years go, I wouldn't be able to put it into practice, because I didn't know how. I'd had no positive experiences in choosing my preferences over another person's. Now I have a few stock moves that help me assert myself: stalling, and being honest and kind. And not letting things pass. The anxiety never goes away, but it can be more manageable.
To get over the initial anxious feeling of "I have no choice," you need to be ready. Act as if your friend has no idea the request might be an imposition and genuinely doesn't want you to be inconvenienced. You can let a pause develop, which gives your friend a chance to prepare for disappointment. Repeat their request in your own words: "So you'd like me to drive up your way and pick you up before going to the beach, so you can sleep an hour longer." Keep your voice neutral for that :-) Buy time with "Let's see..." "I'm not sure..." "I don't know..." All these stalls let you calm down, and still leave you open to say yes, if you so decide.
Say something thoughtful and sympathetic, if you can. "I love to sleep!" "I agree, the bridge tolls are out of hand." This keeps you sounding friendly.
Finally, give the answer. "I'd like to sleep an extra hour too, and I don't want to put you out. Getting to the beach is kind of a pain, so let's skip it and plan something easier next time." Or, "If you pick me up, I'll pay the toll."
You can also be very kind and say, "Don't worry about it. I totally understand." IF you can do that without a trace of sarcasm. Always make sure they know you've listened to their side. If you tell them it sounds like they had a very hectic week, you can then say what's important to you.
Something else that often happened to me: People would be late, or would cancel at the last minute. Of course I thought I had to say, "That's okay!" Now I use my kindest voice and tell them what problem they've caused you. "I had to cancel _______ because I was waiting for you to come and pick up Susie." "I wish you'd given me more notice, because now I need to come up with dessert, since you're not bringing one." "I rented a table to seat 12, but with you not coming, it's not necessary." Like a very sweet teacher telling a kid what effect his misdeed has on other people. By the way, people still show up late and cancel at the last minute --- but at least it's not the same people over and over.
Asserting ourselves is hard for some of us, but you can get better at it and still keep the real friends.
posted by wryly at 7:30 PM on July 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
To get over the initial anxious feeling of "I have no choice," you need to be ready. Act as if your friend has no idea the request might be an imposition and genuinely doesn't want you to be inconvenienced. You can let a pause develop, which gives your friend a chance to prepare for disappointment. Repeat their request in your own words: "So you'd like me to drive up your way and pick you up before going to the beach, so you can sleep an hour longer." Keep your voice neutral for that :-) Buy time with "Let's see..." "I'm not sure..." "I don't know..." All these stalls let you calm down, and still leave you open to say yes, if you so decide.
Say something thoughtful and sympathetic, if you can. "I love to sleep!" "I agree, the bridge tolls are out of hand." This keeps you sounding friendly.
Finally, give the answer. "I'd like to sleep an extra hour too, and I don't want to put you out. Getting to the beach is kind of a pain, so let's skip it and plan something easier next time." Or, "If you pick me up, I'll pay the toll."
You can also be very kind and say, "Don't worry about it. I totally understand." IF you can do that without a trace of sarcasm. Always make sure they know you've listened to their side. If you tell them it sounds like they had a very hectic week, you can then say what's important to you.
Something else that often happened to me: People would be late, or would cancel at the last minute. Of course I thought I had to say, "That's okay!" Now I use my kindest voice and tell them what problem they've caused you. "I had to cancel _______ because I was waiting for you to come and pick up Susie." "I wish you'd given me more notice, because now I need to come up with dessert, since you're not bringing one." "I rented a table to seat 12, but with you not coming, it's not necessary." Like a very sweet teacher telling a kid what effect his misdeed has on other people. By the way, people still show up late and cancel at the last minute --- but at least it's not the same people over and over.
Asserting ourselves is hard for some of us, but you can get better at it and still keep the real friends.
posted by wryly at 7:30 PM on July 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
Best answer: The more time/energy you spend on bad people, the less room there is in your life for good people. So, if a new acquaintance starts demonstrating red flags of loseriness or moochiness, just stop spending time with that person. Be ruthless about dropping the bad people and through attrition you will eventually only have good people in your life.
posted by Jacqueline at 5:23 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Jacqueline at 5:23 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: "But if I had read all this 15 years go, I wouldn't be able to put it into practice, because I didn't know how. I'd had no positive experiences in choosing my preferences over another person's."
This. I also experienced stock phrases like "if you let them do this" etc., although usually well-meant, as being kind of meaningless. All it meant to me in that state of mind was that I should be blamed for doing something that I was also getting blamed for not doing.
Social sadists leverage this kind of thing: you can't protest because you are the one who's letting me do this, which proves that you are undeserving of respect, which proves that you deserve more of the same treatment. And besides, you like it.
Meanwhile, the well-meaning ones to whom I was explaining my strategy and who found it unduly harsh (see above) were, I think, going along with the social programming we all get in all things: be a certain way, but don't do any of the things required to become that way. Be thin, but don't diet. Have a clean house, but don't spend any time cleaning. And similarly: be assertive, but don't assert yourself!
Something that might help could be to refer your own preferences against some standard set of social rules, such as etiquette. I realize that that's a dirty word, but when you're confused it might be the most helpful thing. It's all very well to be a perfectly self-actualizing person, but I know full well I'm capable of being unfair, and the ones who are able to put that aside and do exactly what they want seem to be... well... they seem to be the ones who are treating me like crap. If I want to avoid becoming like them, I need a reality check that doesn't involve asking 12 different people and getting 12 different answers. Miss Manners is good for this, as she's both the strictest and the kindest. If you read her for any length of time I guarantee you'll become a heinously polite bitch. As a bonus, social sadists haaaaaaaaaate to be treated politely, because it shows that you're more driven by principles than by the pecking orders they rely on establishing.
Oh, and - nthing what some others have said about putting up with stuff and then exploding with blame. When I was younger, and suffering from severe anxiety and depression, I thought I was doing my best to repay my friend's (I thought) endlessly patient listening to my problems by giving her little gifts I thought she'd like. I would have listened to her stuff in return, but she never told me any of it and didn't answer when I asked. Then one day she exploded with rage and accused me of manipulating her with material gifts and boring her with my problems and having no interest in anything but myself. Evidence was presented by enumerating all my misdemeanors over the previous two years, and it was demonstrated that this was proof that I was personality disordered, always driven by the worst possible motives and character, and certain never to maintain normal relationships or friendships throughout my lifespan.
I can still see her point, but in hindsight, she could've just said she only had 10 minutes to talk.
posted by tel3path at 9:04 AM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
This. I also experienced stock phrases like "if you let them do this" etc., although usually well-meant, as being kind of meaningless. All it meant to me in that state of mind was that I should be blamed for doing something that I was also getting blamed for not doing.
Social sadists leverage this kind of thing: you can't protest because you are the one who's letting me do this, which proves that you are undeserving of respect, which proves that you deserve more of the same treatment. And besides, you like it.
Meanwhile, the well-meaning ones to whom I was explaining my strategy and who found it unduly harsh (see above) were, I think, going along with the social programming we all get in all things: be a certain way, but don't do any of the things required to become that way. Be thin, but don't diet. Have a clean house, but don't spend any time cleaning. And similarly: be assertive, but don't assert yourself!
Something that might help could be to refer your own preferences against some standard set of social rules, such as etiquette. I realize that that's a dirty word, but when you're confused it might be the most helpful thing. It's all very well to be a perfectly self-actualizing person, but I know full well I'm capable of being unfair, and the ones who are able to put that aside and do exactly what they want seem to be... well... they seem to be the ones who are treating me like crap. If I want to avoid becoming like them, I need a reality check that doesn't involve asking 12 different people and getting 12 different answers. Miss Manners is good for this, as she's both the strictest and the kindest. If you read her for any length of time I guarantee you'll become a heinously polite bitch. As a bonus, social sadists haaaaaaaaaate to be treated politely, because it shows that you're more driven by principles than by the pecking orders they rely on establishing.
Oh, and - nthing what some others have said about putting up with stuff and then exploding with blame. When I was younger, and suffering from severe anxiety and depression, I thought I was doing my best to repay my friend's (I thought) endlessly patient listening to my problems by giving her little gifts I thought she'd like. I would have listened to her stuff in return, but she never told me any of it and didn't answer when I asked. Then one day she exploded with rage and accused me of manipulating her with material gifts and boring her with my problems and having no interest in anything but myself. Evidence was presented by enumerating all my misdemeanors over the previous two years, and it was demonstrated that this was proof that I was personality disordered, always driven by the worst possible motives and character, and certain never to maintain normal relationships or friendships throughout my lifespan.
I can still see her point, but in hindsight, she could've just said she only had 10 minutes to talk.
posted by tel3path at 9:04 AM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: That you everyone for the input. This has given me a lot to think about and to put into practice!
posted by neanderloid at 12:21 PM on July 9, 2010
posted by neanderloid at 12:21 PM on July 9, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
So, keep setting them, and consistently. When you get pushback that seems unreasonable -- and a good way to tell is if it's consistent amongst all your friends or not, as something unreasonable is unlikely to be unreasonable in exactly the same way from everyone independently -- you act according to your boundaries, meaning you spend less time with them, or don't confide in them, or you drop them out of your lives, or you don't trust them with your kids, or whatever.
Then with all that free time you have, since you've dropped some "friends" or at least activities with some of 'em, you go out and meet new people and have your boundaries pre-established so it's not a change. Some people will be cool with 'em -- yay new friends, no quotes required! -- and some won't, and that's fine, too.
posted by davejay at 11:13 PM on July 7, 2010 [5 favorites]