Amateur home networking?
July 5, 2010 12:35 PM Subscribe
Amateur home networking?
I am about to do some renovation work, including re-wiring, on an existing house and want to run network cables and speaker wire for a home network and multi-room audio. Is this something that I can plan without particular training or experience in networking? (I am comfortable with technology, but much more so with software than hardware.)
I'm going to get an electrician to put in the actual cables, but I am wondering if there are particular pitfalls to watch out for in layout, design and components, such as to use CAT6 rather than 5? In particular, is it sensible to just run speaker wire now and install speakers later, in order to spread the cost out? (I am on a limited budget.)
I am about to do some renovation work, including re-wiring, on an existing house and want to run network cables and speaker wire for a home network and multi-room audio. Is this something that I can plan without particular training or experience in networking? (I am comfortable with technology, but much more so with software than hardware.)
I'm going to get an electrician to put in the actual cables, but I am wondering if there are particular pitfalls to watch out for in layout, design and components, such as to use CAT6 rather than 5? In particular, is it sensible to just run speaker wire now and install speakers later, in order to spread the cost out? (I am on a limited budget.)
Response by poster: I'm not keen on wireless for a few reasons, mainly security but also because the walls are thick solid bricks, so I would guess that wireless will not transmit well.
posted by Grinder at 1:17 PM on July 5, 2010
posted by Grinder at 1:17 PM on July 5, 2010
Best answer: It's always kind of a crapshoot deciding what cables to run, I think. Twenty years ago people were running RG59 or whatever, but now you want some variety of UTP (cat5e/cat6).
You want a star topology— that is, each outlet should run back to a common point, say a closet or attic or wall box, where you can eventually put in a switch/hub/router/whatever. Electricians who are accustomed to running UTP for phone wiring will usually daisy-chain the outlets, which is not very useful for networking.
It's not hard to attach the outlets to the ends of the cables yourself (just be sure you use the right arrangement of wires->pins; there are a couple in common use). I think it'd be perfectly reasonable to run UTP and speaker wire to a bunch of blank wall plates around the house and wire in the jacks as needed later.
posted by hattifattener at 1:18 PM on July 5, 2010
You want a star topology— that is, each outlet should run back to a common point, say a closet or attic or wall box, where you can eventually put in a switch/hub/router/whatever. Electricians who are accustomed to running UTP for phone wiring will usually daisy-chain the outlets, which is not very useful for networking.
It's not hard to attach the outlets to the ends of the cables yourself (just be sure you use the right arrangement of wires->pins; there are a couple in common use). I think it'd be perfectly reasonable to run UTP and speaker wire to a bunch of blank wall plates around the house and wire in the jacks as needed later.
posted by hattifattener at 1:18 PM on July 5, 2010
Best answer: Don't go wireless when you don't have to. Wired networks are way more reliable and way faster, and wired sound systems sound much better.
Pitfalls? Two sets of network cable to every room, even if you don't terminate both. This is because network cable makes great phone or intercom wire. The old school advice was to also run two coaxials to every room, for cable and/or cameras. One coaxial is still important, but ethernet enabled cameras are easy and cheap nowadays.
posted by Chuckles at 1:19 PM on July 5, 2010
Pitfalls? Two sets of network cable to every room, even if you don't terminate both. This is because network cable makes great phone or intercom wire. The old school advice was to also run two coaxials to every room, for cable and/or cameras. One coaxial is still important, but ethernet enabled cameras are easy and cheap nowadays.
posted by Chuckles at 1:19 PM on July 5, 2010
If you're planning on adding more wires later, have the electrician use large enough conduit that you'll be able to poke the wires down it. Preferably have it so that corners/bends are accessible. A friend did this when adding wires to his own house, and it saved a ton of time after it was done.
posted by Solomon at 1:24 PM on July 5, 2010
posted by Solomon at 1:24 PM on July 5, 2010
You can't get gigabit speeds over a wireless network. There are lots of reasons people still may want to run a good old fashioned wired network. It also sounds like Cat6 will be the basis of new audio/video cabling standards. Telling the OP to use a wireless network is really a big non-answer to his question.
posted by chunking express at 1:31 PM on July 5, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by chunking express at 1:31 PM on July 5, 2010 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: Chuckles: Yes, I'm planning on CAT6 and coax x 2 in each room.
Anyone have any idea whether it is feasible not to install built-in speakers now?
posted by Grinder at 1:37 PM on July 5, 2010
Anyone have any idea whether it is feasible not to install built-in speakers now?
posted by Grinder at 1:37 PM on July 5, 2010
I don't see why you need to install the speakers now. It's just pairs of cables that you can leave dandling or terminate into some kind of outlet. Why do you think you need to install them immediately?
Cat6 for sure, ethernet is going to be with us for a long time into the future, cat6 is good for sometime into the future (aka any foreseeable use of the cable at present time). I ran 1 cat 6 in every room and 4 to my office and 4 to me TV room. There are a lot of devices that don't work on wireless that are annoying to integrate if you try multiple wireless stations or repeaters. I gave up on that a while ago.
Are you really getting an electrician to run those cables? Really?
A) He might not necessarily know what he's doing. Electricians are used to pulling A LOT on cables when they're running them. Electrical cables are perfectly fine with this because they're think and don't have a "special" twist in them. Working in enterprise levels we've had trouble with this.
B) They're expensive. We're talking about unionized labour expensive. You can either do it yourself or get a cabler to do the work for you. They are much cheaper and if you can find a good one they could very well have a decade of experience. Low voltage cable is not something that is a fire hazard or regulated by the building code (I am not a lawyer or and engineer, I just do networking projects for a living).
Bear in mind you have to watch any contractor. It also depends on what the path is and what you expect your installer to do in preparing the path (smash holes in the walls, install conduits).
Foor for thought.
posted by Napierzaza at 1:52 PM on July 5, 2010
Cat6 for sure, ethernet is going to be with us for a long time into the future, cat6 is good for sometime into the future (aka any foreseeable use of the cable at present time). I ran 1 cat 6 in every room and 4 to my office and 4 to me TV room. There are a lot of devices that don't work on wireless that are annoying to integrate if you try multiple wireless stations or repeaters. I gave up on that a while ago.
Are you really getting an electrician to run those cables? Really?
A) He might not necessarily know what he's doing. Electricians are used to pulling A LOT on cables when they're running them. Electrical cables are perfectly fine with this because they're think and don't have a "special" twist in them. Working in enterprise levels we've had trouble with this.
B) They're expensive. We're talking about unionized labour expensive. You can either do it yourself or get a cabler to do the work for you. They are much cheaper and if you can find a good one they could very well have a decade of experience. Low voltage cable is not something that is a fire hazard or regulated by the building code (I am not a lawyer or and engineer, I just do networking projects for a living).
Bear in mind you have to watch any contractor. It also depends on what the path is and what you expect your installer to do in preparing the path (smash holes in the walls, install conduits).
Foor for thought.
posted by Napierzaza at 1:52 PM on July 5, 2010
Response by poster: Napierzaza, I don't think I need to install them now but I haven't done this before so I want to be sure. I plan to leave the cables in the ceilings, ready for the speakers when I have money to buy them. Is this OK?
I am also re-wiring the electrics in the house, so I need an electrician in any case, and it makes sense to do all of this together. He claims to have done this sort of cabling before, and he's not expensive. (This is in Ireland, not the US, so unionisation is not an issue.)
Thanks.
posted by Grinder at 2:24 PM on July 5, 2010
I am also re-wiring the electrics in the house, so I need an electrician in any case, and it makes sense to do all of this together. He claims to have done this sort of cabling before, and he's not expensive. (This is in Ireland, not the US, so unionisation is not an issue.)
Thanks.
posted by Grinder at 2:24 PM on July 5, 2010
Best answer: Running speaker cables now and doing speakers is fine. make all the speaker cables at least 5-10 feet longer than you need just in case. Speaker wire is cheap, doing it again sucks.
Someone I know recomended running some good quality slick cording along with whatever else you run. I guess the idea is, if you want to add another cable later on the same path, you can tie it to that and pull the cord through. Seems like an interesting idea, may not be practical with all paths (some might just have too many kinks to pull stuff through)
posted by RustyBrooks at 2:35 PM on July 5, 2010
Someone I know recomended running some good quality slick cording along with whatever else you run. I guess the idea is, if you want to add another cable later on the same path, you can tie it to that and pull the cord through. Seems like an interesting idea, may not be practical with all paths (some might just have too many kinks to pull stuff through)
posted by RustyBrooks at 2:35 PM on July 5, 2010
You'll need a good network contractor. You may need plenum rated cable in places, and there are bend radius constraints that a phone/electrical installer might not know to meet. An unnoticed kink in the line while installing, or a poor punch on the jack can give you headaches for ever. You may want to put some wireless in places for conveniency (laptops, iPhones, etc.) so you might want to hide an AP somewhere and look into power over ethernet so you don't have to worry about electricity at the AP location. You'll want to leave a string in each conduit that you can use to later pull a new wire (and a new string). You'll also want them to test each run (with an analyzer, not just plugging in a machine) and keep the results. Clearly label each end of the cable pre-termination.
posted by zengargoyle at 2:37 PM on July 5, 2010
posted by zengargoyle at 2:37 PM on July 5, 2010
CAT6 if the price difference isn't too steep. You get more overhead and less crosstalk. I imagine in 5 to 10 years when 10 or 100gbps is common you'll regret putting in CAT5.
My personal experience is that even the best wireless-n technology is still not acceptable for use for things like HD streaming if you don't find random speed drops and packet loss to be acceptable.
Range is also a issue with wireless-n. Those speeds drop very quickly as snr dips. The spot where my living room TV is gets the same thoroughput via G or N, and I've tried about four or five different vendors. I don't see this situation getting any better. For anything more than 15-20 feet or going through more than one wall you'll regret building a wireless infrastructure, especially when the cost of laying cable is so cheap.
posted by damn dirty ape at 4:28 PM on July 5, 2010
My personal experience is that even the best wireless-n technology is still not acceptable for use for things like HD streaming if you don't find random speed drops and packet loss to be acceptable.
Range is also a issue with wireless-n. Those speeds drop very quickly as snr dips. The spot where my living room TV is gets the same thoroughput via G or N, and I've tried about four or five different vendors. I don't see this situation getting any better. For anything more than 15-20 feet or going through more than one wall you'll regret building a wireless infrastructure, especially when the cost of laying cable is so cheap.
posted by damn dirty ape at 4:28 PM on July 5, 2010
Best answer: I just finished pulling and terminating an office of CAT6 and installing a patch panel. It's super easy to do, and I definitely recommend it. Wired is absolutely faster and more reliable than wireless, 100% of the time, and the convenience of having gigabit throughout your house is really great.
Seconding that you should watch out for some of the quirks of CAT6. It's not okay to bend it with a radius < four times the width of the cable (my rule of thumb is "if a half-dollar wouldn't fit in the loop, it's too small"). When you're terminating the cables, you don't want more than about half an inch untwisted from the cable to the contact. Make sure that your guy knows these things, and has experience not just running cables, but building networks.
posted by aaronbeekay at 6:40 PM on July 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
Seconding that you should watch out for some of the quirks of CAT6. It's not okay to bend it with a radius < four times the width of the cable (my rule of thumb is "if a half-dollar wouldn't fit in the loop, it's too small"). When you're terminating the cables, you don't want more than about half an inch untwisted from the cable to the contact. Make sure that your guy knows these things, and has experience not just running cables, but building networks.
posted by aaronbeekay at 6:40 PM on July 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
Free do-it-yourself design tutorial.
posted by exphysicist345 at 8:28 PM on July 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by exphysicist345 at 8:28 PM on July 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
Another thing to consider is if you'll need another permit for this. In some areas they now require a low voltage permit to run network and AV wiring. As such it will have to be installed to code and be inspected. Better to ask now.
posted by white_devil at 8:45 PM on July 5, 2010
posted by white_devil at 8:45 PM on July 5, 2010
In some areas they now require a low voltage permit to run network and AV wiring.
?!?!
posted by Chuckles at 9:05 PM on July 7, 2010
?!?!
posted by Chuckles at 9:05 PM on July 7, 2010
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(I know that doesn't answer your specific question, but this just seemed worth bringing up.)
posted by StrawberryPie at 1:13 PM on July 5, 2010