A MUA I can MWAH
June 30, 2010 9:24 AM Subscribe
Help me find a new email client.
I've been using Thunderbird for several years, but I'm finding it's a psychological toll. Every time I think I want to switch/upgrade my OS, for instance, my main concern is "is that going to screw up Thunderbird"? Or "Ugh, but then I have to get Thunderbird set up right again."
Things I like about Thunderbird:
With news possibly out of the way, perhaps what I want is mutt. Does mutt handle multiple accounts and IMAP well? Do I have to set up a local SMTP server anymore? (I think that's what drove me away from mutt last time, but that was at least 10 years ago.)
Or perhaps I can get gnus set up correctly somehow?
I've been using Thunderbird for several years, but I'm finding it's a psychological toll. Every time I think I want to switch/upgrade my OS, for instance, my main concern is "is that going to screw up Thunderbird"? Or "Ugh, but then I have to get Thunderbird set up right again."
Things I like about Thunderbird:
- Everything is visible at once. I can expand/collapse different mail accounts, folders and threads and still see what is available.
- Integrated mail and news
- Hard to use remotely
- Unalterable editor
- Prefs and email both scattered around a GUI and a file system
- Great editor (emacs)
- Scriptable
- Integrated mail and news
- Prefs easy to locate and copy to a new machine
- Can control the whole thing via the keyboard (efficient and remotable)
- Treats mail as news, which seems very hard if not impossible to undo (i.e. gnus very much wants to only show me "new" things and only a "group" at a time whereas I want to see "my mail" new and old and from all groups together.)
- Very, very steep learning curve
With news possibly out of the way, perhaps what I want is mutt. Does mutt handle multiple accounts and IMAP well? Do I have to set up a local SMTP server anymore? (I think that's what drove me away from mutt last time, but that was at least 10 years ago.)
Or perhaps I can get gnus set up correctly somehow?
Response by poster: There are many reasons I'm not using gmail, some philosophical and some practical. Biggest pertinent one: I already have email addresses, I need an email client.
posted by DU at 9:35 AM on June 30, 2010
posted by DU at 9:35 AM on June 30, 2010
Noted. And, while I might miss the finer points on your requirements, I do actually know the different between addresses and clients.
I have multiple non-gmail email addresses handled by gmail. As a client. That doesn't solve your philosophical issues, of course.
posted by FlamingBore at 9:41 AM on June 30, 2010
I have multiple non-gmail email addresses handled by gmail. As a client. That doesn't solve your philosophical issues, of course.
posted by FlamingBore at 9:41 AM on June 30, 2010
I wish I could answer this. I have not found anything better than Gmail, even though I hate using a non-local solution.
FWIW, you can use Gmail as a client for POP3 accounts (but not IMAP). You can also alias existing addresses to your Gmail account and configure Gmail to send replies to mail to those addresses using the aliased address for "From:," and also to mail them via the correct SMTP server for the address's domain rather than via Gmail's servers.
In my experience there is basically nothing that really handles IMAP well. The standard is too complex and every implementation falls short in inevitably-incompatible ways. If you're lucky it can be tolerable if you only ever use one client on one machine to access your IMAP account, but then what's the point of using it?
posted by enn at 9:43 AM on June 30, 2010 [1 favorite]
FWIW, you can use Gmail as a client for POP3 accounts (but not IMAP). You can also alias existing addresses to your Gmail account and configure Gmail to send replies to mail to those addresses using the aliased address for "From:," and also to mail them via the correct SMTP server for the address's domain rather than via Gmail's servers.
In my experience there is basically nothing that really handles IMAP well. The standard is too complex and every implementation falls short in inevitably-incompatible ways. If you're lucky it can be tolerable if you only ever use one client on one machine to access your IMAP account, but then what's the point of using it?
posted by enn at 9:43 AM on June 30, 2010 [1 favorite]
Have you considered pine? It's been my mainstay for mail and news for years. You can use emacs as your editor if you so choose.
posted by Cat Pie Hurts at 9:43 AM on June 30, 2010
posted by Cat Pie Hurts at 9:43 AM on June 30, 2010
If you like gnus, have you given VM a try? That's the last non-Gmail mail client I used and it worked pretty well in an emacsish way. (BTW, with appropriate forwarding Gmail can serve any of your addresses with its web client.)
posted by Nelson at 9:45 AM on June 30, 2010
posted by Nelson at 9:45 AM on June 30, 2010
Response by poster: I used to use pine years ago but for some reason didn't consider it. Didn't know it did news. Have to check that out. And elm, probably.
I have multiple non-gmail email addresses handled by gmail. As a client.
Oh, I didn't realize that. But yeah, still have issues with that.
posted by DU at 9:47 AM on June 30, 2010
I have multiple non-gmail email addresses handled by gmail. As a client.
Oh, I didn't realize that. But yeah, still have issues with that.
posted by DU at 9:47 AM on June 30, 2010
Might as well throw in mutt while we're at it! (Though alpine is still my #1!)
posted by Cat Pie Hurts at 9:53 AM on June 30, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Cat Pie Hurts at 9:53 AM on June 30, 2010 [1 favorite]
In case you have thought to look at Wikipedia, they have a fairly comprehensive list of email clients at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_e-mail_clients
posted by COD at 9:55 AM on June 30, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by COD at 9:55 AM on June 30, 2010 [2 favorites]
I meant to add: I did try a Ruby console MUA called Sup a few years ago — it was supposed to have a lot of the nice things about Gmail, like fast search and simple tagging, but text-based and local — and at the time it didn't really work too well, but the concept was nice, and it looks like it's been actively developed in the several intervening years, so maybe it's worth trying now.
posted by enn at 10:02 AM on June 30, 2010
posted by enn at 10:02 AM on June 30, 2010
A little more of a technical solution, because it requires hardware and service setup but I've:
1) Bought a D-Link DNS-323 (NAS device that can run other software) and
2) Installed the 'dovecot' imap server on the NAS
3) Installed fetchmail and procmail on the NAS
4) Have fetchmail and procmail get mail from my POP email provider and inject it into my Maildir
3) Installed a web service (lighttpd) + PHP
4) Installed HastyMail (PHP scripts)
So now I may
1) Use thunderbird from any of the clients in the house to read all of my mail. When a new client arrives, I just point it at the imap server, and all my mail is available on that new client as well. I could use any client software that supports imap (Outlook, etc) without having to 'convert' my mail.
2) Use HastyMail over https from outside of the home with a browser - again viewing all my mail with folders, etc from wherever I have internet/browser access.
My mail is kept in a "Maildir" format which I've been able to move around with success - though I'll have to keep an eye on the future for support of that format...
You wouldn't have to purchase hardware - instead finding a reliable imap service provider. I just prefered having my data where I can 'touch' it. (My preciouuusss...)
posted by csmason at 10:06 AM on June 30, 2010
1) Bought a D-Link DNS-323 (NAS device that can run other software) and
2) Installed the 'dovecot' imap server on the NAS
3) Installed fetchmail and procmail on the NAS
4) Have fetchmail and procmail get mail from my POP email provider and inject it into my Maildir
3) Installed a web service (lighttpd) + PHP
4) Installed HastyMail (PHP scripts)
So now I may
1) Use thunderbird from any of the clients in the house to read all of my mail. When a new client arrives, I just point it at the imap server, and all my mail is available on that new client as well. I could use any client software that supports imap (Outlook, etc) without having to 'convert' my mail.
2) Use HastyMail over https from outside of the home with a browser - again viewing all my mail with folders, etc from wherever I have internet/browser access.
My mail is kept in a "Maildir" format which I've been able to move around with success - though I'll have to keep an eye on the future for support of that format...
You wouldn't have to purchase hardware - instead finding a reliable imap service provider. I just prefered having my data where I can 'touch' it. (My preciouuusss...)
posted by csmason at 10:06 AM on June 30, 2010
Are you using the most recent version of Thunderbird? Have you tried Claws? Claws is pretty flexible and has a lot of modular extensions.
FWIW, I also have reservations (philosophical) with Google. But Gmail is a powerful, flexible client and all around mail management tool, and you can use it and not be beholden.
I have all my active POP accounts routing through Gmail as well as several defunct accounts uploaded to Gmail. I use Thunderbird locally, synced with IMAP. This means I have the security of having all my mail stored locally in an open format. I can quit or be disconnected from Gmail at any time temporarily or permanently and it is a non-issue.
Maybe your practical or philosophical barriers are to big for this, but it is a solution worth your consideration.
posted by quarterframer at 10:16 AM on June 30, 2010
FWIW, I also have reservations (philosophical) with Google. But Gmail is a powerful, flexible client and all around mail management tool, and you can use it and not be beholden.
I have all my active POP accounts routing through Gmail as well as several defunct accounts uploaded to Gmail. I use Thunderbird locally, synced with IMAP. This means I have the security of having all my mail stored locally in an open format. I can quit or be disconnected from Gmail at any time temporarily or permanently and it is a non-issue.
Maybe your practical or philosophical barriers are to big for this, but it is a solution worth your consideration.
posted by quarterframer at 10:16 AM on June 30, 2010
DU: I use mutt with multiple IMAP accounts at work, all day, every day.
I cannot recommend mutt as your MUA highly enough. Anyone looking to get the most out of email should use mutt.
As for SMTP, you will need either a remote SMTP that accepts submissions, or a local smtp process.
I'd be happy to toss you a copy of my .mutt/ dir (which contains my very heavily commented, customized mutt config files - gpg, s/mime, multiple imap accounts, custom colors, etc... all working) - memail me if you're interested.
posted by namewithoutwords at 10:38 AM on June 30, 2010
I cannot recommend mutt as your MUA highly enough. Anyone looking to get the most out of email should use mutt.
As for SMTP, you will need either a remote SMTP that accepts submissions, or a local smtp process.
I'd be happy to toss you a copy of my .mutt/ dir (which contains my very heavily commented, customized mutt config files - gpg, s/mime, multiple imap accounts, custom colors, etc... all working) - memail me if you're interested.
posted by namewithoutwords at 10:38 AM on June 30, 2010
There are other web based mail front ends besides gmail. Squirrelmail, for example.
posted by Obscure Reference at 11:07 AM on June 30, 2010
posted by Obscure Reference at 11:07 AM on June 30, 2010
Have you tried Mulberry? It's ridiculously powerful and configurable, and the exact opposite of "user friendly," which is what it sounds like you're going for. (I kid because I love!)
Mulberry is the last desktop email client I used, before I switched to Gmail. What can I say? The older I get, the less interested I am in spending an entire afternoon fucking about with an email client AGAIN.
posted by ErikaB at 11:09 AM on June 30, 2010 [2 favorites]
Mulberry is the last desktop email client I used, before I switched to Gmail. What can I say? The older I get, the less interested I am in spending an entire afternoon fucking about with an email client AGAIN.
posted by ErikaB at 11:09 AM on June 30, 2010 [2 favorites]
When I got tired of Thunderbird idiosyncrasies, I transitioned to Claws. When I got tired of Claws, I threw away philosophical objections and transitioned to Gmail with offline support (via Google Gears)
posted by gmarceau at 12:01 PM on June 30, 2010
posted by gmarceau at 12:01 PM on June 30, 2010
DU: "Does mutt handle multiple accounts and IMAP well? Do I have to set up a local SMTP server anymore?"
Yes, and sort of. You need access to some kind of SMTP daemon, whether it's a local or remote. But this isn't nearly as painful as it sounds like you remember. You can use Gmail's server if you like, or you can set up your own in about five minutes. Debian, Ubuntu, RHEL, and Gentoo all have exim and postfix packaged up, and the DEB and RPM formats are accepted by several other distributions. Mac has postfix. Windows---you're probably in for some pain, but if you use Windows it'll be a familiar experience.
Mutt seems to have everything you liked and nothing you disliked, with the one possible exception of news/mail integration. I've never tried that, so I don't know if it works.
I've also used sup a few years ago, liked it very much, and assume it'll be even better now.
posted by d. z. wang at 12:28 PM on June 30, 2010
Yes, and sort of. You need access to some kind of SMTP daemon, whether it's a local or remote. But this isn't nearly as painful as it sounds like you remember. You can use Gmail's server if you like, or you can set up your own in about five minutes. Debian, Ubuntu, RHEL, and Gentoo all have exim and postfix packaged up, and the DEB and RPM formats are accepted by several other distributions. Mac has postfix. Windows---you're probably in for some pain, but if you use Windows it'll be a familiar experience.
Mutt seems to have everything you liked and nothing you disliked, with the one possible exception of news/mail integration. I've never tried that, so I don't know if it works.
I've also used sup a few years ago, liked it very much, and assume it'll be even better now.
posted by d. z. wang at 12:28 PM on June 30, 2010
Response by poster: So, I'm trying out sup and it is *amazing*.
(Except for the default color scheme, sweet jebus.)
posted by DU at 5:08 PM on June 30, 2010
(Except for the default color scheme, sweet jebus.)
posted by DU at 5:08 PM on June 30, 2010
Response by poster: To be fair to sup: It was expecting a reverse video display. Once I did that it was more reasonable. I still changed it all around though.
My longer term review is: It's pretty great, but needs some work. Part of that is because I'm using an olderish version that is available through Ubuntu 10.04. But it is still under development and I'm thinking about joining to add some stuff I want (better formatting (options)) and perhaps a guile scripting interface.
posted by DU at 9:07 AM on July 2, 2010
My longer term review is: It's pretty great, but needs some work. Part of that is because I'm using an olderish version that is available through Ubuntu 10.04. But it is still under development and I'm thinking about joining to add some stuff I want (better formatting (options)) and perhaps a guile scripting interface.
posted by DU at 9:07 AM on July 2, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by FlamingBore at 9:31 AM on June 30, 2010