Help me deal with the feeling that everyone is incompetent until proven otherwise
June 28, 2010 6:22 AM Subscribe
Help me deal with the feeling that everyone is incompetent until proven otherwise
I need some help dealing with a feeling that everywhere I go, people seem incompetent & miserable. While running my normal errands yesterday, nearly every "employee" I encountered at Lowes, the Gas Station, restaurants, were complete idiots. Has it always been this way, and I'm just now noticing it? At any rate, it's depressing.
I know it can be a drag dealing with people, but at my job I'm pleasant and knowledgeable to my customers. In the midst of this recession shouldn't these people be happy to even have a job? I don't need my life to be like an episode of "Leave it to Beaver", but has everyone just given up on customer service and pride in their work? I'd be curious to hear if others feel this way.
I need to find a different way to deal with these zombies. Can anyone recommend any books, philosophies, etc. that relate to this?
I need some help dealing with a feeling that everywhere I go, people seem incompetent & miserable. While running my normal errands yesterday, nearly every "employee" I encountered at Lowes, the Gas Station, restaurants, were complete idiots. Has it always been this way, and I'm just now noticing it? At any rate, it's depressing.
I know it can be a drag dealing with people, but at my job I'm pleasant and knowledgeable to my customers. In the midst of this recession shouldn't these people be happy to even have a job? I don't need my life to be like an episode of "Leave it to Beaver", but has everyone just given up on customer service and pride in their work? I'd be curious to hear if others feel this way.
I need to find a different way to deal with these zombies. Can anyone recommend any books, philosophies, etc. that relate to this?
nearly every "employee" I encountered at Lowes, the Gas Station, restaurants, were complete idiots
These types of jobs don't pay very well. Smart people are attracted to better paying jobs; therefore, these jobs are filled by the less intelligent and less motivated.
posted by dfriedman at 6:26 AM on June 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
These types of jobs don't pay very well. Smart people are attracted to better paying jobs; therefore, these jobs are filled by the less intelligent and less motivated.
posted by dfriedman at 6:26 AM on June 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
YOU are the common denominator in all these interactions, so maybe focus on improving your outlook/expectations towards other?
If you approach every employee expecting them to be "complete idiots", you will be proven right nearly every time.
posted by nineRED at 6:26 AM on June 28, 2010 [20 favorites]
If you approach every employee expecting them to be "complete idiots", you will be proven right nearly every time.
posted by nineRED at 6:26 AM on June 28, 2010 [20 favorites]
In a recent question that I asked, amtho linked me up with Fundamental attribution error. It is not the answer, always, but it is a very good thing to think about now, and keep in mind out in the world.
If anything it can help distract you from obsessing on other's incompetence because it reminds you that you could be making a big presumptive ass out of yourself with your judginess.
posted by Cold Lurkey at 6:32 AM on June 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
If anything it can help distract you from obsessing on other's incompetence because it reminds you that you could be making a big presumptive ass out of yourself with your judginess.
posted by Cold Lurkey at 6:32 AM on June 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
People who don't get paid enough to care about their jobs, don't care about their jobs. Retail and waiting tables are extremely demoralizing and exhausting and, for all that, badly paid. People who are pleasant and knowledgeable can probably find a better job; people who start out pleasant and knowledgeable can get ground down by the job.
Find empathy when you can; shop online when you can't.
posted by Jeanne at 6:38 AM on June 28, 2010 [7 favorites]
Find empathy when you can; shop online when you can't.
posted by Jeanne at 6:38 AM on June 28, 2010 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: Are you sure it's not this?
I don't think it's a projection thing on my part, I'm definitely not perfect either.
YOU are the common denominator in all these interactions, so maybe focus on improving your outlook/expectations towards other?
I understand this. So are you saying I'm setting the bar to high to expect people to give a shit and provide good service?
posted by Hellafiles at 6:39 AM on June 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
I don't think it's a projection thing on my part, I'm definitely not perfect either.
YOU are the common denominator in all these interactions, so maybe focus on improving your outlook/expectations towards other?
I understand this. So are you saying I'm setting the bar to high to expect people to give a shit and provide good service?
posted by Hellafiles at 6:39 AM on June 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
These types of jobs don't pay very well. Smart people are attracted to better paying jobs; therefore, these jobs are filled by the less intelligent and less motivated.
Those kind of jobs pay poorly, have few opportunities for advancement, and therefore few incentives to exert effort.
It's horribly offensive to draw conclusions about a person's intelligence based on a job. Hellafiles, probably the mood you found those workers in had something to do with people treating them like dirt all day long.
posted by vincele at 6:39 AM on June 28, 2010 [25 favorites]
Those kind of jobs pay poorly, have few opportunities for advancement, and therefore few incentives to exert effort.
It's horribly offensive to draw conclusions about a person's intelligence based on a job. Hellafiles, probably the mood you found those workers in had something to do with people treating them like dirt all day long.
posted by vincele at 6:39 AM on June 28, 2010 [25 favorites]
Response by poster: Those kind of jobs pay poorly, have few opportunities for advancement, and therefore few incentives to exert effort.
I've had my share of horrible & degrading jobs just like the next guy. But I always tried to do the best I could at my horrible job. :)
posted by Hellafiles at 6:44 AM on June 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
I've had my share of horrible & degrading jobs just like the next guy. But I always tried to do the best I could at my horrible job. :)
posted by Hellafiles at 6:44 AM on June 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
I've noticed that when I'm in a lousy mood, service workers seem incompetent, lazy, and ugly. When I'm in a decent mood, they're helpful, cheery, and remarkably good-looking. It's probably half me treating them better, and half me not projecting my crappy mindset on them.
You probably don't notice that for every employee half-assing it, there's someone doing a good job. It's easier to spot the bad apples.
You sound like you want us to validate your feelings here, and say, "Damn kids don't know how good they've got it. In my day, when a customer kicked us in the face, we said, 'Thank you, sir' and meant it." Not gonna happen.
posted by punchtothehead at 6:45 AM on June 28, 2010 [14 favorites]
You probably don't notice that for every employee half-assing it, there's someone doing a good job. It's easier to spot the bad apples.
You sound like you want us to validate your feelings here, and say, "Damn kids don't know how good they've got it. In my day, when a customer kicked us in the face, we said, 'Thank you, sir' and meant it." Not gonna happen.
posted by punchtothehead at 6:45 AM on June 28, 2010 [14 favorites]
I've had my share of horrible & degrading jobs just like the next guy. But I always tried to do the best I could at my horrible job. :)
So, are you even looking for a real answer to this question, or is it amiriteFilter?
posted by cabingirl at 6:46 AM on June 28, 2010 [33 favorites]
So, are you even looking for a real answer to this question, or is it amiriteFilter?
posted by cabingirl at 6:46 AM on June 28, 2010 [33 favorites]
Response by poster: You sound like you want us to validate your feelings here, and say, "Damn kids don't know how good they've got it. In my day, when a customer kicked us in the face, we said, 'Thank you, sir' and meant it." Not gonna happen.
No, what I'm asking for are suggestions as to how to deal with these type of people. And thoughts as to why it seems to be this way. Hope this helps.
posted by Hellafiles at 6:49 AM on June 28, 2010
No, what I'm asking for are suggestions as to how to deal with these type of people. And thoughts as to why it seems to be this way. Hope this helps.
posted by Hellafiles at 6:49 AM on June 28, 2010
Best answer: I don't think you can change this. You're either a glass half full or a glass half empty kind of guy.
Whenever I experience poor customer service, I just "pretend" that whomever I'm dealing with is having a terrible day. Maybe he's going through a rough divorce, maybe his kid brought home an F from school, maybe his grandmother passed away. Something.
That helps me frame my side of any encounter. The person you're dealing with gets paid to help you out and treat you well. If he's not able to do that, it might not be that he's just incompetent - he could be having a bad day like I mentioned above.
But if you go out of your way to make his day better, man that's a karmic gift, and humanity's better for it. There are two sides to every interaction. You can only control one side- your own. Simple things like asking "hey, how are you doing?" can make a big difference before you ask for help. People are more likely to help their friends, rather than a stranger. Treat everyone like they are your friends!
posted by unexpected at 6:52 AM on June 28, 2010 [14 favorites]
Whenever I experience poor customer service, I just "pretend" that whomever I'm dealing with is having a terrible day. Maybe he's going through a rough divorce, maybe his kid brought home an F from school, maybe his grandmother passed away. Something.
That helps me frame my side of any encounter. The person you're dealing with gets paid to help you out and treat you well. If he's not able to do that, it might not be that he's just incompetent - he could be having a bad day like I mentioned above.
But if you go out of your way to make his day better, man that's a karmic gift, and humanity's better for it. There are two sides to every interaction. You can only control one side- your own. Simple things like asking "hey, how are you doing?" can make a big difference before you ask for help. People are more likely to help their friends, rather than a stranger. Treat everyone like they are your friends!
posted by unexpected at 6:52 AM on June 28, 2010 [14 favorites]
I've had my share of horrible & degrading jobs just like the next guy. But I always tried to do the best I could at my horrible job. :)
You seem to be falling into the trap of expecting everyone to live and think as you do. If they don't, you dismiss as stupid. Your attitude is toxic and tiring, let alone arrogant and condescending, so I'm not surprised you're getting shitty service at times. Hell, some of them are probably just giving you shit after perceiving your attitude.
In the midst of this recession shouldn't these people be happy to even have a job?
Not when they're underpaid, haven't had a raise as life seems to be getting more expensive and have to deal with shitty customers who want to look down upon them.
Seriously, your attitude is "shut and smile and consider yourself lucky for having a shitty job?" That's not the way to get great customer service.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:55 AM on June 28, 2010 [26 favorites]
You seem to be falling into the trap of expecting everyone to live and think as you do. If they don't, you dismiss as stupid. Your attitude is toxic and tiring, let alone arrogant and condescending, so I'm not surprised you're getting shitty service at times. Hell, some of them are probably just giving you shit after perceiving your attitude.
In the midst of this recession shouldn't these people be happy to even have a job?
Not when they're underpaid, haven't had a raise as life seems to be getting more expensive and have to deal with shitty customers who want to look down upon them.
Seriously, your attitude is "shut and smile and consider yourself lucky for having a shitty job?" That's not the way to get great customer service.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:55 AM on June 28, 2010 [26 favorites]
Anecdote (not data): years ago, I was fired from a low-level job for "poor performance." The job itself was easy and I started out fine, but my boss treated me like a child and ignored every suggestion I made to improve things. I didn't feel valued, so I didn't contribute any value. Fortunately, I've had good jobs, good bosses, and good performance reviews ever since. People are inclined to live up (or down) to expectations.
So many people, customers and supervisors alike, look down on service employees because those jobs are considered unskilled. Customers regularly berate them for things that are beyond their control and should be taken to the management. Employers impose all sorts of strict restrictions on their clothing, demeanor, breaks taken, for the sake of saving the company money and preserving the company's image. Both often treat them like one step up from trained monkeys and remind them that they are easily replaceable. And then they turn to their friends and wonder why those people aren't proud of their work and happy to have a job.
posted by Metroid Baby at 6:56 AM on June 28, 2010 [5 favorites]
So many people, customers and supervisors alike, look down on service employees because those jobs are considered unskilled. Customers regularly berate them for things that are beyond their control and should be taken to the management. Employers impose all sorts of strict restrictions on their clothing, demeanor, breaks taken, for the sake of saving the company money and preserving the company's image. Both often treat them like one step up from trained monkeys and remind them that they are easily replaceable. And then they turn to their friends and wonder why those people aren't proud of their work and happy to have a job.
posted by Metroid Baby at 6:56 AM on June 28, 2010 [5 favorites]
suggestions as to how to deal with these type of people
Good cheer, an assumption that they are doing their best (which includes you making the assumption that they may have just been dumped via text message, are whacked out on hay fever medication, whatever minor human tragedy), acknowledgement that your Lowe's purchase is just not all that important.
In the midst of this recession shouldn't these people be happy to even have a job?
This is sort of analogous to looking at refugees who've just arrived in your country and thinking "they should be so grateful that they're here," with no thought of how much it must suck to have your homeland fall to pieces to the point where you're forced to take your family and flee.
posted by kmennie at 6:58 AM on June 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
Good cheer, an assumption that they are doing their best (which includes you making the assumption that they may have just been dumped via text message, are whacked out on hay fever medication, whatever minor human tragedy), acknowledgement that your Lowe's purchase is just not all that important.
In the midst of this recession shouldn't these people be happy to even have a job?
This is sort of analogous to looking at refugees who've just arrived in your country and thinking "they should be so grateful that they're here," with no thought of how much it must suck to have your homeland fall to pieces to the point where you're forced to take your family and flee.
posted by kmennie at 6:58 AM on June 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: In the midst of this recession shouldn't these people be happy to even have a job?
If 15% of your workforce has been laid off in the last few months, and management won't say whether or not there will be more layoffs in the near future, that's not exactly good for morale for those who still have jobs (for now).
Plus, "shouldn't people be grateful to X" is generally a losing argument. Everyone has reasons to be happy (shouldn't you be grateful that Lowes, gas stations, and restaurants exist at all?) and reasons to be miserable.
at my job I'm pleasant and knowledgeable to my customers
I'm sure you think you're knowledgeable. But humans tend to be very poor at judging their own competence. I'm not saying you're not knowledgeable, but your belief that you are is not particularly good evidence of that.
I need to find a different way to deal with these zombies.
Assume they have no free will. I'm not joking. They act according to their nature. If you trip and fall, you (presumably) don't get mad at gravity, for gravity simply acts according to its nature. If you're canoeing and an unexpected rush of water capsizes you, you don't get mad at the river, for the river simply acts according to its nature. The people you deal with simply act according to their nature. I don't know whether people actually have free will or not, but I find it much less stress-inducing if I assume they don't.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 6:58 AM on June 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
If 15% of your workforce has been laid off in the last few months, and management won't say whether or not there will be more layoffs in the near future, that's not exactly good for morale for those who still have jobs (for now).
Plus, "shouldn't people be grateful to X" is generally a losing argument. Everyone has reasons to be happy (shouldn't you be grateful that Lowes, gas stations, and restaurants exist at all?) and reasons to be miserable.
at my job I'm pleasant and knowledgeable to my customers
I'm sure you think you're knowledgeable. But humans tend to be very poor at judging their own competence. I'm not saying you're not knowledgeable, but your belief that you are is not particularly good evidence of that.
I need to find a different way to deal with these zombies.
Assume they have no free will. I'm not joking. They act according to their nature. If you trip and fall, you (presumably) don't get mad at gravity, for gravity simply acts according to its nature. If you're canoeing and an unexpected rush of water capsizes you, you don't get mad at the river, for the river simply acts according to its nature. The people you deal with simply act according to their nature. I don't know whether people actually have free will or not, but I find it much less stress-inducing if I assume they don't.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 6:58 AM on June 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
I totally did not to mean to imply you were the problem or anything like that. I live in a particularly cranky part of the US and I used to walk around angry all the time until, like someone said above, I started thinking about how people have probably crappy days at work. I routinely see customers ignore greetings and questions posed by employees and I see from time to time customers throw money, trash and other things at staff even in (especially in?) wealthy areas, so it must be really common for retail workers to deal with jerks (not you).
So recently I've started rewarding good customer service by filling out little customer comment cards when something nice happens.
posted by vincele at 7:02 AM on June 28, 2010
So recently I've started rewarding good customer service by filling out little customer comment cards when something nice happens.
posted by vincele at 7:02 AM on June 28, 2010
Best answer: Here's a suggestion: try shopping at independent, locally owned businesses. Statements that people don't care about their jobs because they're not worth caring about are somewhat true, but I would argue they're more true for people who work in chain businesses which are run from distant home offices and supervised only by regional managers are inherently lousy places to work. No one who walks into your local store, right up to some fairly high levels, really truly cares about that business as a personal concern. And no one is drawing much personal satisfaction from being involved with that company.
With locally owned places, the opposite is often true. Owners are more often a daily presence. They more often live in the community and have a stake in it; they and their staff have multiple connection points to local life and want to develop and maintain a good reputation, in most cases. Owners hire people for their good qualities and want to cultivate good service, because it is one of the few ways they can distinguish themselves from cheaper chain businesses. The staff is likely to be more stable, so you can get to know them, and if you do encounter a customer service problem and want to talk to someone about it, you can talk directly to the owner, or write a serious but polite, signed letter.
Retail and waiting tables are extremely demoralizing and exhausting and, for all that, badly paid
Waiting tables really isn't badly paid on the whole, but again, workers are much better off in a place that cares about service and quality, and that's likely to be an owner-operated restaurant rather than a chain outlet where everything, including the management, is pre-fab. Compensation is only one part of job satisfaction; if it's only just adequate but other work conditions are quite good, people will stay and will develop the work ethic the owner asks for. If the compensation is just adequate but the other work conditions suck (distant/incompetent management, cog-in-a-wheel feelings, bad benefits, no opportunity for advancement, hostile policies -- in short, what most low-skilled chain jobs offer) - you will have employees with low motivation.
On the whole, my advice:
If you are offended by service or lack of it, say something
-Try humanizing your exchange with small talk/observations/questions - "Hard day?"
-If you experience a repeated run of bad service, contact the manager(s)
-If no improvement, take your business elsewhere and let them know why
-Accept that you are, in relative terms, a very privileged and gifted person, lucky to have the perspective, education, breeding, social skills, and work ethic that you do. Most of that didn't develop intrinsically - it's a result of the care and good opportunities you've been fortunate to have in life. Shitty as this is, not everyone entered the world with the same package of skills, grew up in an environment where they could learn them, or enjoys the same low level of stress you have. It's hard feeling like "If only everyone were like me the world would be so much better!" But really, everyone isn't like you and lots of people won't ever have the chance to get there.
-Try to go easy, and try to just avoid the situations where you encouter a lot of people like that, by changing who you interact with and where you shop.
posted by Miko at 7:03 AM on June 28, 2010 [18 favorites]
With locally owned places, the opposite is often true. Owners are more often a daily presence. They more often live in the community and have a stake in it; they and their staff have multiple connection points to local life and want to develop and maintain a good reputation, in most cases. Owners hire people for their good qualities and want to cultivate good service, because it is one of the few ways they can distinguish themselves from cheaper chain businesses. The staff is likely to be more stable, so you can get to know them, and if you do encounter a customer service problem and want to talk to someone about it, you can talk directly to the owner, or write a serious but polite, signed letter.
Retail and waiting tables are extremely demoralizing and exhausting and, for all that, badly paid
Waiting tables really isn't badly paid on the whole, but again, workers are much better off in a place that cares about service and quality, and that's likely to be an owner-operated restaurant rather than a chain outlet where everything, including the management, is pre-fab. Compensation is only one part of job satisfaction; if it's only just adequate but other work conditions are quite good, people will stay and will develop the work ethic the owner asks for. If the compensation is just adequate but the other work conditions suck (distant/incompetent management, cog-in-a-wheel feelings, bad benefits, no opportunity for advancement, hostile policies -- in short, what most low-skilled chain jobs offer) - you will have employees with low motivation.
On the whole, my advice:
If you are offended by service or lack of it, say something
-Try humanizing your exchange with small talk/observations/questions - "Hard day?"
-If you experience a repeated run of bad service, contact the manager(s)
-If no improvement, take your business elsewhere and let them know why
-Accept that you are, in relative terms, a very privileged and gifted person, lucky to have the perspective, education, breeding, social skills, and work ethic that you do. Most of that didn't develop intrinsically - it's a result of the care and good opportunities you've been fortunate to have in life. Shitty as this is, not everyone entered the world with the same package of skills, grew up in an environment where they could learn them, or enjoys the same low level of stress you have. It's hard feeling like "If only everyone were like me the world would be so much better!" But really, everyone isn't like you and lots of people won't ever have the chance to get there.
-Try to go easy, and try to just avoid the situations where you encouter a lot of people like that, by changing who you interact with and where you shop.
posted by Miko at 7:03 AM on June 28, 2010 [18 favorites]
In the midst of this recession shouldn't these people be happy to even have a job?
This and some of your other comments have an air of "Let them eat cake." Yes, they're lucky in a certain sense to even have "a job" rather than being unemployed. But maybe they had been hoping for a better job than working in a gas station? I remember seeing a comment on Mefi, post-recession, from someone who had been a lawyer for decades, still was a lawyer, and had recently started working a second job ... at Target.
Also, the world isn't just a bunch of isolated individuals -- they might be worrying about other people in their life who don't have a job. They might be expected to provide for a big family and feeling miserably burdened by not being able to make enough money to satisfy the expectations that are placed on them.
We really don't know what's going on in people's lives when we encounter them in situations like this. Maybe they just got divorced. Maybe a close family member just died. Maybe they were just diagnosed with a terminal illness. I do think service workers are still obligated to provide good customer service even if their life is hard, but we can understand why they'd slip up without broadly characterizing them as incompetent people.
Also, I wish this question could be clarified as to whether you're asking specifically about customer service, or if that's just an example. (Your title and intro are phrased broadly, but then you talk only about customer service.)
posted by Jaltcoh at 7:04 AM on June 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
This and some of your other comments have an air of "Let them eat cake." Yes, they're lucky in a certain sense to even have "a job" rather than being unemployed. But maybe they had been hoping for a better job than working in a gas station? I remember seeing a comment on Mefi, post-recession, from someone who had been a lawyer for decades, still was a lawyer, and had recently started working a second job ... at Target.
Also, the world isn't just a bunch of isolated individuals -- they might be worrying about other people in their life who don't have a job. They might be expected to provide for a big family and feeling miserably burdened by not being able to make enough money to satisfy the expectations that are placed on them.
We really don't know what's going on in people's lives when we encounter them in situations like this. Maybe they just got divorced. Maybe a close family member just died. Maybe they were just diagnosed with a terminal illness. I do think service workers are still obligated to provide good customer service even if their life is hard, but we can understand why they'd slip up without broadly characterizing them as incompetent people.
Also, I wish this question could be clarified as to whether you're asking specifically about customer service, or if that's just an example. (Your title and intro are phrased broadly, but then you talk only about customer service.)
posted by Jaltcoh at 7:04 AM on June 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
So are you saying I'm setting the bar to high to expect people to give a shit and provide good service?
Those talking about salary may be. But I believe the comment you quoted was asking whether it's possible that you were thinking "what incompetent fools they are here, I bet this cashier is a total idiot," and that (s)he just lived up (or down) to your expectations, as people tend to do that.
posted by salvia at 7:08 AM on June 28, 2010
Those talking about salary may be. But I believe the comment you quoted was asking whether it's possible that you were thinking "what incompetent fools they are here, I bet this cashier is a total idiot," and that (s)he just lived up (or down) to your expectations, as people tend to do that.
posted by salvia at 7:08 AM on June 28, 2010
It could be getting worse nowadays because the cost of living has gotten more and more expensive, and the pay for those jobs really haven't caught up. It's like that for most of us, but it hurts the people at the lowest-paying jobs the hardest.
Anecdata: When I was 18 I worked at Dunkin Donuts and had my own apartment, no roommates. I had a beat-up car, no cable, and ate a lot of free donuts and bagels, but I was able to survive and feed myself on that income, plus tips. Nowadays, I really don't think anyone could survive on their own on minimum wage no matter how frugal they are. Just looking at what rents are going for in most places rules that out. It's pretty demoralizing to get up and work all day and still not be able to provide the basics for yourself. You can get into arguments about how these types of jobs are not really meant to provide for a family, they're "kids" jobs but the reality is that there is not a lot out there for unskilled/uneducated workers. Hell, I know people with college degrees who don't make more than $10 an hour.
posted by cottonswab at 7:09 AM on June 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
Anecdata: When I was 18 I worked at Dunkin Donuts and had my own apartment, no roommates. I had a beat-up car, no cable, and ate a lot of free donuts and bagels, but I was able to survive and feed myself on that income, plus tips. Nowadays, I really don't think anyone could survive on their own on minimum wage no matter how frugal they are. Just looking at what rents are going for in most places rules that out. It's pretty demoralizing to get up and work all day and still not be able to provide the basics for yourself. You can get into arguments about how these types of jobs are not really meant to provide for a family, they're "kids" jobs but the reality is that there is not a lot out there for unskilled/uneducated workers. Hell, I know people with college degrees who don't make more than $10 an hour.
posted by cottonswab at 7:09 AM on June 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
Try making their day better, thank them for anything they did right even if it was totally their job to do it right.
I've had some crappy jobs where I've gone above and beyond for my boss/the customer and got absolutely nothing in return. If you were the fifteenth customer that day to focus on what went wrong in the transaction and not even acknowledge what went right, you're the problem here and not them, honestly.
If a transaction goes horribly awry and takes ten minutes extra to sort out, how about cheerfully appreciating that they spent ten minutes working the problem out and fixing it. Maybe the customer after you will have a better experience with them.
It is difficult to smile when people are getting frustrated with you so try relaxing your posture, commiserating with their crappy transaction/crappy computer system/anything else that is hindering them and being extra happy when it gets sorted out. Try asking for their supervisor and praising their patience or something.
You'll be amazed at what a difference it makes to have a customer be grateful and understanding. Maybe they won't care, maybe they'll remember you next time and be happy for a cheerful customer, maybe their other customers that day will profit.
In any case, it would cost you almost nothing and possibly help someone else out so be an overall positive experience instead of negative.
posted by shinybaum at 7:22 AM on June 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
I've had some crappy jobs where I've gone above and beyond for my boss/the customer and got absolutely nothing in return. If you were the fifteenth customer that day to focus on what went wrong in the transaction and not even acknowledge what went right, you're the problem here and not them, honestly.
If a transaction goes horribly awry and takes ten minutes extra to sort out, how about cheerfully appreciating that they spent ten minutes working the problem out and fixing it. Maybe the customer after you will have a better experience with them.
It is difficult to smile when people are getting frustrated with you so try relaxing your posture, commiserating with their crappy transaction/crappy computer system/anything else that is hindering them and being extra happy when it gets sorted out. Try asking for their supervisor and praising their patience or something.
You'll be amazed at what a difference it makes to have a customer be grateful and understanding. Maybe they won't care, maybe they'll remember you next time and be happy for a cheerful customer, maybe their other customers that day will profit.
In any case, it would cost you almost nothing and possibly help someone else out so be an overall positive experience instead of negative.
posted by shinybaum at 7:22 AM on June 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
How do you interact with these folks? Do you provide any kind of acknowledgment of the service they offer you? Maybe not just yesterday, but ever?
I try to be grateful that these people are here to try and help me out. Yeah, they get paid for it; yeah, they may not be doing a particularly good job. But the dude who's working at the supermarket at 7:30 AM on Thanksgiving so I can buy yet another pound of butter? He is Not Having A Good Time, I promise, but I thank him for being there on Thanksgiving so that I can get my butter. Because whether he is helpful and cheerful or dumb and surly, I'm screwed without him.
Maybe all the service employees you encounter really are surly idiots. Or maybe they're real live actual human beings who work in a pulverizing, demeaning, dehumanizing environment, and have begun to shut down to protect themselves. Really, it could be either. But what does it cost you to try and restore a little bit of that humanity, to make this an exchange between equals?
posted by KathrynT at 7:24 AM on June 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
I try to be grateful that these people are here to try and help me out. Yeah, they get paid for it; yeah, they may not be doing a particularly good job. But the dude who's working at the supermarket at 7:30 AM on Thanksgiving so I can buy yet another pound of butter? He is Not Having A Good Time, I promise, but I thank him for being there on Thanksgiving so that I can get my butter. Because whether he is helpful and cheerful or dumb and surly, I'm screwed without him.
Maybe all the service employees you encounter really are surly idiots. Or maybe they're real live actual human beings who work in a pulverizing, demeaning, dehumanizing environment, and have begun to shut down to protect themselves. Really, it could be either. But what does it cost you to try and restore a little bit of that humanity, to make this an exchange between equals?
posted by KathrynT at 7:24 AM on June 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
-Try humanizing your exchange with small talk/observations/questions - "Hard day?"
Don't do this. There is no way for that not to come across as condescending and demanding, and will piss the human being you are talking to off.
posted by edbles at 7:24 AM on June 28, 2010 [7 favorites]
Don't do this. There is no way for that not to come across as condescending and demanding, and will piss the human being you are talking to off.
posted by edbles at 7:24 AM on June 28, 2010 [7 favorites]
Also as to why you may be noticing it more these days - banks especially have not been happy places lately, maybe the teller just spent four hours telling people they were overdrawn.
Maybe in a recession shops are not happy spendy places but mostly people complaining and returning goods trying to cadge a discount. Yeah they have a job but if half their customers are miserable then it must rub off on them.
posted by shinybaum at 7:27 AM on June 28, 2010
Maybe in a recession shops are not happy spendy places but mostly people complaining and returning goods trying to cadge a discount. Yeah they have a job but if half their customers are miserable then it must rub off on them.
posted by shinybaum at 7:27 AM on June 28, 2010
Best answer: Half of everything is below average. That's simple maths. That includes customer service. So, at least half of the time, you're just getting what you're mathematically going to get.
Then there's the issue of your standards, whatever they may be. They might be too high, they might be too low, and there's even a pretty small chance that they're bang on. Whichever way, other people will not necessarily conform to them. Cashiers, for example, couldn't care less about your standards. They care about their boss's standards, and maybe not even those. They get paid the same rate whether they go all out to help you, or sit at the checkout picking their noses. How you feel about that is immaterial to them, because you don't employ them. So, whatever your standards may be, you're not necessarily going to have them met simply because you have them.
I'd suggest you develop a more Zen-like attitude to this. Their level of service isn't about you. You are no more important to them than they are to you.
As to why it's like this, consider the fact that nobodies job is secure, that people are earning less to pay for more, are having to live up to some arbitrary level of service that someone else has thought up and you can maybe start to see why people don't care about you.
posted by Solomon at 7:29 AM on June 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
Then there's the issue of your standards, whatever they may be. They might be too high, they might be too low, and there's even a pretty small chance that they're bang on. Whichever way, other people will not necessarily conform to them. Cashiers, for example, couldn't care less about your standards. They care about their boss's standards, and maybe not even those. They get paid the same rate whether they go all out to help you, or sit at the checkout picking their noses. How you feel about that is immaterial to them, because you don't employ them. So, whatever your standards may be, you're not necessarily going to have them met simply because you have them.
I'd suggest you develop a more Zen-like attitude to this. Their level of service isn't about you. You are no more important to them than they are to you.
As to why it's like this, consider the fact that nobodies job is secure, that people are earning less to pay for more, are having to live up to some arbitrary level of service that someone else has thought up and you can maybe start to see why people don't care about you.
posted by Solomon at 7:29 AM on June 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
I need to find a different way to deal with these zombies.
As suggested above, accepting that these jobs are often zombifying in and of themselves would go some way to helping.
Other than that? Honestly, just try to stop letting it get to you. I've had my share of mindnumbing jobs that involved dealing with the public too, and like most, I've noticed that there's a significant sector of the population who go about their lives just waiting for the person behind the till/on the other end of the phone/taking their restaurant order to mess up, or in some other way fail to live up to an expected standard of customer service. They're usually people who pride themselves on Not Suffering Fools Gladly, or some such sentiment; they're the people who seem somehow compelled to tell you about how they went to buy a coffee this morning and the girl behind the counter was just talking to her friend, she hardly even looked at me, my God it was so rude so I cleared my throat and said "I hope I'm not interrupting anything!" and she looked at me like I'd just slapped her dog or something, would you believe it, etc.
And it's not necessarily that they're wrong, or expecting too much from humanity, or whatever. It's just that going through life in a permanent state of bristling anticipation cannot be much fun. And what do you get out of it? Is it honestly that big of a deal, worth working yourself into a furious psychological lather over, if the kid behind the counter doesn't look you in the eye when he hands you your change? Yeah, maybe you'd do that job better. But, so what? Sure, maybe the waitress should be glad that she even has a job in this economy. But hey, you live in a fairly affluent part of the world, you have a better standard of living than blah per cent of the human population - do you really want something like "I had to ask three times for the cheesecake!" to get in your way? It's not like you need to make sure the universe has you on file somewhere as someone who is Not Prepared To Put Up With This. There isn't a badge you get as a reward. I guarantee, you'll be about eight hundred times happier if you shrug it off.
Also, if someone's being really obnoxiously rude to you to the point where you just cannot let it go, a tip from working in customer service: be over-the-top bright and smiley in return. Totally worth it for the look on someone's face when they're thinking "Hey, you can't say 'You're welcome!' to me when I didn't even thank you, wait, uh...."
posted by Catseye at 7:35 AM on June 28, 2010 [16 favorites]
As suggested above, accepting that these jobs are often zombifying in and of themselves would go some way to helping.
Other than that? Honestly, just try to stop letting it get to you. I've had my share of mindnumbing jobs that involved dealing with the public too, and like most, I've noticed that there's a significant sector of the population who go about their lives just waiting for the person behind the till/on the other end of the phone/taking their restaurant order to mess up, or in some other way fail to live up to an expected standard of customer service. They're usually people who pride themselves on Not Suffering Fools Gladly, or some such sentiment; they're the people who seem somehow compelled to tell you about how they went to buy a coffee this morning and the girl behind the counter was just talking to her friend, she hardly even looked at me, my God it was so rude so I cleared my throat and said "I hope I'm not interrupting anything!" and she looked at me like I'd just slapped her dog or something, would you believe it, etc.
And it's not necessarily that they're wrong, or expecting too much from humanity, or whatever. It's just that going through life in a permanent state of bristling anticipation cannot be much fun. And what do you get out of it? Is it honestly that big of a deal, worth working yourself into a furious psychological lather over, if the kid behind the counter doesn't look you in the eye when he hands you your change? Yeah, maybe you'd do that job better. But, so what? Sure, maybe the waitress should be glad that she even has a job in this economy. But hey, you live in a fairly affluent part of the world, you have a better standard of living than blah per cent of the human population - do you really want something like "I had to ask three times for the cheesecake!" to get in your way? It's not like you need to make sure the universe has you on file somewhere as someone who is Not Prepared To Put Up With This. There isn't a badge you get as a reward. I guarantee, you'll be about eight hundred times happier if you shrug it off.
Also, if someone's being really obnoxiously rude to you to the point where you just cannot let it go, a tip from working in customer service: be over-the-top bright and smiley in return. Totally worth it for the look on someone's face when they're thinking "Hey, you can't say 'You're welcome!' to me when I didn't even thank you, wait, uh...."
posted by Catseye at 7:35 AM on June 28, 2010 [16 favorites]
While running my normal errands yesterday, nearly every "employee" I encountered at Lowes, the Gas Station, restaurants, were complete idiots. Has it always been this way, and I'm just now noticing it? At any rate, it's depressing.
Here's the thing; you get what you pay for.
That's not just true for actual items, but also for service. If you walk into a gas station, or a low-end restaurant, or Lowe's, you're walking into a place who cares about the BOTTOM LINE FIRST.
They hire people at the minimum they can, they rarely offer them the kind of schedule or hours they want and they attract bottom feeders. There will be exceptions to this, but when they're not paying anything but the minimum, so why can you or they expect anything above the minimum job requirements?
When you go to a place where the prices are cheaper, you often will find that they get there not only by volume, but by also providing the lowest possible service at the lowest possible price.
If you want good service, shop at places you know that offer commission or an incentive to people to do a good job. If you can't find one of those, adapt and learn to be someone who knows what they're buying before they get to the store. Ask around to friends, research on the internet and provide your own service quality before you get there.
posted by Hiker at 7:38 AM on June 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
Here's the thing; you get what you pay for.
That's not just true for actual items, but also for service. If you walk into a gas station, or a low-end restaurant, or Lowe's, you're walking into a place who cares about the BOTTOM LINE FIRST.
They hire people at the minimum they can, they rarely offer them the kind of schedule or hours they want and they attract bottom feeders. There will be exceptions to this, but when they're not paying anything but the minimum, so why can you or they expect anything above the minimum job requirements?
When you go to a place where the prices are cheaper, you often will find that they get there not only by volume, but by also providing the lowest possible service at the lowest possible price.
If you want good service, shop at places you know that offer commission or an incentive to people to do a good job. If you can't find one of those, adapt and learn to be someone who knows what they're buying before they get to the store. Ask around to friends, research on the internet and provide your own service quality before you get there.
posted by Hiker at 7:38 AM on June 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
Some things I tell myself when dealing with those who seem apathetic, beaten down, or that they just have a few dim bulbs.
"Every man is my superior in that I may learn from him."
"There, but for the Grace of God, go I."
Everyone you encounter is an opportunity for compassion. And for inspiration.
Another thing to consider when you encounter this irritation is Tonglen practice, where you breathe in their boredom and despair and breathe out to them your hopefulness and positive attitude.
You don't get a constructive attitidue in the face of menial work naturally. Somebody gives it to you. So at the very least, these people are a cause for gratitude to those who taught you well.
Every irritation and annoyance in life is a call to become more awake, aware, and compassionate with others!
posted by cross_impact at 7:39 AM on June 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
"Every man is my superior in that I may learn from him."
"There, but for the Grace of God, go I."
Everyone you encounter is an opportunity for compassion. And for inspiration.
Another thing to consider when you encounter this irritation is Tonglen practice, where you breathe in their boredom and despair and breathe out to them your hopefulness and positive attitude.
You don't get a constructive attitidue in the face of menial work naturally. Somebody gives it to you. So at the very least, these people are a cause for gratitude to those who taught you well.
Every irritation and annoyance in life is a call to become more awake, aware, and compassionate with others!
posted by cross_impact at 7:39 AM on June 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
This has been said already, but I also find that how I treat people matters, even in such small interactions. One of the things that makes a big difference is very easy: direct eye contact and a smile. I started noticing how often people don't even really look at the person behind the counter, customers acknowledge them enough to get the transaction done and often just grunt answers to workplace-mandated questions like "did you find everything you need?" or "and how is your day today?".
It's fairly dehumanizing to go through a whole shift of this, let alone day after day of shifts. Simply looking the person at the register in the eyes, smiling, and taking 5 seconds to acknowledge them as a human being and have a short, direct interaction with them does make a difference, I find. Aside from the corporate micromanagement and (sometimes literal) shit nature of the work, I remember from working such jobs that customers only rarely treat you like real people, and that kind of shitty level of human interaction all day definitely used to affect me negatively.
So I try to look people in the eye and smile, to acknowledge them as fellow human beings whose work I happen to come into contact with today, be they corporate executive or custodial staff or cashier. People seem to find it very affirming, and the quality of service I receive often improves as a result.
posted by LooseFilter at 7:41 AM on June 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
It's fairly dehumanizing to go through a whole shift of this, let alone day after day of shifts. Simply looking the person at the register in the eyes, smiling, and taking 5 seconds to acknowledge them as a human being and have a short, direct interaction with them does make a difference, I find. Aside from the corporate micromanagement and (sometimes literal) shit nature of the work, I remember from working such jobs that customers only rarely treat you like real people, and that kind of shitty level of human interaction all day definitely used to affect me negatively.
So I try to look people in the eye and smile, to acknowledge them as fellow human beings whose work I happen to come into contact with today, be they corporate executive or custodial staff or cashier. People seem to find it very affirming, and the quality of service I receive often improves as a result.
posted by LooseFilter at 7:41 AM on June 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
Try approaching people as experts in what they do. They will shock you when you ask. When I had a tricky hotel situation where I needed reservations for one extra night in my stay at an already booked-up hotel, I just had to keep calling the reservations folks and asking if anything was available. Any openings this night? No. One day later. Any openings this night? No. One day later ... They essentially served as a front end to a computer system I would never get to see. I changed the situation by not treating them like they were a voice recognition system interfacing to a SQL statement.
So I asked, "If you were me, what would you do to get a room in the hotel? In your experience, do you think I have a shot?" I received amazingly helpful answers from different people — 1) people wait until the last minute to cancel, so if you don't see any results now, you'll have much better luck later. 2) We have a sister hotel just a mile and a half way; let's make you a backup reservation there. 3) Once you're in the hotel, it's much easier to stay at the hotel, you can get top priority.
And it all worked out like they said, but they also didn't volunteer it because they were used to being treated like just a bunch of buttons on a phone tree.
While some people will disappoint you, many spring to wise action when presented with a problem and asked for their expertise.
posted by adipocere at 7:43 AM on June 28, 2010 [14 favorites]
So I asked, "If you were me, what would you do to get a room in the hotel? In your experience, do you think I have a shot?" I received amazingly helpful answers from different people — 1) people wait until the last minute to cancel, so if you don't see any results now, you'll have much better luck later. 2) We have a sister hotel just a mile and a half way; let's make you a backup reservation there. 3) Once you're in the hotel, it's much easier to stay at the hotel, you can get top priority.
And it all worked out like they said, but they also didn't volunteer it because they were used to being treated like just a bunch of buttons on a phone tree.
While some people will disappoint you, many spring to wise action when presented with a problem and asked for their expertise.
posted by adipocere at 7:43 AM on June 28, 2010 [14 favorites]
(also, what cross_impact said. As a bonus, you can tell when you've brightened someone's day, and that will make you feel better, too.)
posted by LooseFilter at 7:43 AM on June 28, 2010
posted by LooseFilter at 7:43 AM on June 28, 2010
compassion is probably your big key here. start with not calling them zombies and idiots, but thinking of them as a kindly relative of yours who has lost everything in the wall street crisis and had to go find job after spending 20 years as a housewife. or someone who's trying really hard to not be welfare and working two jobs to make ends meet because they'd rather not get govenrment cheese out of a personal work ethic.
This.
I've worked both office jobs and retail. Heck I've worked retail while working in an office, and after working eight hours in an office, standing for eight hours a night wasn't exactly what I wanted to be doing... Plus, retail can be demoralizing and dehumanizing, especially when customers come in and expect everything to be *their* way (not the store's way, not the logical way, their way). And, of course, if things go wrong, the it is the cashier/clerk's fault. How hard is it to keep a smile plastered on your face when you go through day after day of this and this? Have some compassion man, most of the people in the red apron/blue shirts are working just as hard as anyone else and having customers grouse at them all day doesn't help AT ALL.
-Try humanizing your exchange with small talk/observations/questions - "Hard day?"
Don't do this. There is no way for that not to come across as condescending and demanding, and will piss the human being you are talking to off.
I disagree with edbles - a smile and small talk go a lot further than grumbling and moody silence. I wouldn't necessarily use "Hard day?" but some kind of small talk or even acknowledging that the person in front of you is a PERSON, not a zombie or mindless drone a nice enough gesture to give you better service in the future.
All that being said, there is a trend of apathy in the retail quarter. I noticed it myself while working. People are demoralized and they can be bitchy and incompetent because they either don't plan on being in that position for long, or they simply have no idea of what the word "work" means. Like those kids in school who expect an "A" no matter what effort they put into their schoolwork. It's quite possible that the OP ran into several of these apathetic employees in one day - possible, but not probable.
posted by patheral at 7:49 AM on June 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
This.
I've worked both office jobs and retail. Heck I've worked retail while working in an office, and after working eight hours in an office, standing for eight hours a night wasn't exactly what I wanted to be doing... Plus, retail can be demoralizing and dehumanizing, especially when customers come in and expect everything to be *their* way (not the store's way, not the logical way, their way). And, of course, if things go wrong, the it is the cashier/clerk's fault. How hard is it to keep a smile plastered on your face when you go through day after day of this and this? Have some compassion man, most of the people in the red apron/blue shirts are working just as hard as anyone else and having customers grouse at them all day doesn't help AT ALL.
-Try humanizing your exchange with small talk/observations/questions - "Hard day?"
Don't do this. There is no way for that not to come across as condescending and demanding, and will piss the human being you are talking to off.
I disagree with edbles - a smile and small talk go a lot further than grumbling and moody silence. I wouldn't necessarily use "Hard day?" but some kind of small talk or even acknowledging that the person in front of you is a PERSON, not a zombie or mindless drone a nice enough gesture to give you better service in the future.
All that being said, there is a trend of apathy in the retail quarter. I noticed it myself while working. People are demoralized and they can be bitchy and incompetent because they either don't plan on being in that position for long, or they simply have no idea of what the word "work" means. Like those kids in school who expect an "A" no matter what effort they put into their schoolwork. It's quite possible that the OP ran into several of these apathetic employees in one day - possible, but not probable.
posted by patheral at 7:49 AM on June 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: When you go to a place where the prices are cheaper, you often will find that they get there not only by volume, but by also providing the lowest possible service at the lowest possible price.
This is a great example. I'm completely content to pay more for good service. There's a grocery store near me called "Fresh Market". They are actually a chain, but the customer service is astounding. One time I asked the guy working the deli if a certain brand of pickles were good. He said "I'm not sure, but lets find out!". He then proceeded to actually open one of the jars and hand me a pickle to try!! I was SHOCKED. Since then I've been a loyal customer. Yes, the prices are a bit higher but I don't mind. I can't imagine that guy in the deli was making too much more than someone in a chain supermarket.
posted by Hellafiles at 7:50 AM on June 28, 2010
This is a great example. I'm completely content to pay more for good service. There's a grocery store near me called "Fresh Market". They are actually a chain, but the customer service is astounding. One time I asked the guy working the deli if a certain brand of pickles were good. He said "I'm not sure, but lets find out!". He then proceeded to actually open one of the jars and hand me a pickle to try!! I was SHOCKED. Since then I've been a loyal customer. Yes, the prices are a bit higher but I don't mind. I can't imagine that guy in the deli was making too much more than someone in a chain supermarket.
posted by Hellafiles at 7:50 AM on June 28, 2010
Best answer: I worked retail for a long time. I was always cheerful with customers and seldom had negative experiences. Then one year I was in crappy health, and had little energy. I had many wretched customer experiences. I find that when I greet people with courtesy and a positive attitude, it makes a difference. That said, I do notice that many cashiers these days are very young, very poorly trained, and have inadequate manners. I complain about truly bad customer service, but, more important, I praise good customer service to the person providing it, and to the business.
And would somebody get those darn kids off my lawn.
posted by theora55 at 7:51 AM on June 28, 2010
And would somebody get those darn kids off my lawn.
posted by theora55 at 7:51 AM on June 28, 2010
It's difficult to give you advice on how to deal with workers you encounter when you give no examples of how the customer service was bad. But since I work in customer service, let me give you some perspective.
You think most workers are idiots. Well I think most customers could use a class in how to communicate their fucking question / problem / issue. For example, what exactly was your problem with the person at Lowes? Did they not know where to find the tool you need? How about the gas station person? Did they not know about the rewards card program? Teh restaraunt? Did they not know what 5 cheeses are in the 5 cheese blend that gets sprinkled on the loaded mashed potatoes? If we don't know the details of the problem, we cant help you.
Everyday in customer service land we get calls of people spouting off disconnected thoughts and babble that makes no sense, then we need to figure out the correct leading questions to get the necessary information out of these idiot customers. My work involes contract sales of office supplies. I often get phone calls like this:
"hi, I got 2 toners that aren't mine."
"OK, please send them to me through inter-office mail."
"I need the toners that are mine."
"Did you order your toners? If so do you have the order # handy?"
"I ordered them yesterday."
(I look up all orders from yesterday until I find this persons)"OK I'll send you a return authorization for the toners you received and have the correct toners sent out. It looks like the warehouse accidentally picked the wrong toners for your order."
"Do I have to reorder the toners"
(think to myself "I just fucking answered that ")
Now if the customer wasn't such a dolt, they would have called and said "Hi, I ordered toners yesterday and received my order today, but recieved a different toner than what I ordered." and have their order # handy (especially since they get 3 email confirmations and it's stored on an internal database of theirs that takes about .3 seconds to access).
Likewise, my roommate works for a cable provider customer service and also gets people calling up saying "The TV doesn't work." FUCKING HOW??? Is one channel out? Is every channel static? Does it just not turn on? Is there video and no sound? Sound and no video? Communicate the problem clearly, please you mentally stunted bobble head!
So that's what it looks like on the other side of the fence. We need to deal with stupid customers all the time and here's how the good ones do it:
Realize that everyone is just people. They don't know that I just spraigned my ankle and am about to be late on my rent due to medical expenses. Likewise, I don't know if they really need that toner to print documents to go fight for the custody of their abused niece in court tomorrow. You don't know me, I don't know you, we all got shit, let's figure this out.
Which leads me to the other way of dealing with it - Approach the interaction as "teamwork". You got a question or need service, they can get an answer somehow or provide the service. So work together to figure it out.
"Soup or salad"
"what kind of soup, today?"
"broccolli cheddar"
"I'll take salad. What dressings do you have?"
"ranch, blue cheeeeez, french, russian, creamy italian"
"I'll take french on the side"
See, look at that teamwork, the melding of two minds that occurs just to figure out what you want before your entree. IT's a beautiful thing. Other species can't do that!
For the record, I don't actually think customers are stupid, i was just trying to illustrate how someone that had your outlook would view you if they were serving you.
posted by WeekendJen at 7:58 AM on June 28, 2010 [8 favorites]
You think most workers are idiots. Well I think most customers could use a class in how to communicate their fucking question / problem / issue. For example, what exactly was your problem with the person at Lowes? Did they not know where to find the tool you need? How about the gas station person? Did they not know about the rewards card program? Teh restaraunt? Did they not know what 5 cheeses are in the 5 cheese blend that gets sprinkled on the loaded mashed potatoes? If we don't know the details of the problem, we cant help you.
Everyday in customer service land we get calls of people spouting off disconnected thoughts and babble that makes no sense, then we need to figure out the correct leading questions to get the necessary information out of these idiot customers. My work involes contract sales of office supplies. I often get phone calls like this:
"hi, I got 2 toners that aren't mine."
"OK, please send them to me through inter-office mail."
"I need the toners that are mine."
"Did you order your toners? If so do you have the order # handy?"
"I ordered them yesterday."
(I look up all orders from yesterday until I find this persons)"OK I'll send you a return authorization for the toners you received and have the correct toners sent out. It looks like the warehouse accidentally picked the wrong toners for your order."
"Do I have to reorder the toners"
(think to myself "I just fucking answered that ")
Now if the customer wasn't such a dolt, they would have called and said "Hi, I ordered toners yesterday and received my order today, but recieved a different toner than what I ordered." and have their order # handy (especially since they get 3 email confirmations and it's stored on an internal database of theirs that takes about .3 seconds to access).
Likewise, my roommate works for a cable provider customer service and also gets people calling up saying "The TV doesn't work." FUCKING HOW??? Is one channel out? Is every channel static? Does it just not turn on? Is there video and no sound? Sound and no video? Communicate the problem clearly, please you mentally stunted bobble head!
So that's what it looks like on the other side of the fence. We need to deal with stupid customers all the time and here's how the good ones do it:
Realize that everyone is just people. They don't know that I just spraigned my ankle and am about to be late on my rent due to medical expenses. Likewise, I don't know if they really need that toner to print documents to go fight for the custody of their abused niece in court tomorrow. You don't know me, I don't know you, we all got shit, let's figure this out.
Which leads me to the other way of dealing with it - Approach the interaction as "teamwork". You got a question or need service, they can get an answer somehow or provide the service. So work together to figure it out.
"Soup or salad"
"what kind of soup, today?"
"broccolli cheddar"
"I'll take salad. What dressings do you have?"
"ranch, blue cheeeeez, french, russian, creamy italian"
"I'll take french on the side"
See, look at that teamwork, the melding of two minds that occurs just to figure out what you want before your entree. IT's a beautiful thing. Other species can't do that!
For the record, I don't actually think customers are stupid, i was just trying to illustrate how someone that had your outlook would view you if they were serving you.
posted by WeekendJen at 7:58 AM on June 28, 2010 [8 favorites]
Best answer: They act according to their nature.
Exactly. What you need is some Rx-Strength Stoicism. Ever read The Enchiridion by Epictetus or Meditations by Marcus Aurelius? You should. To quote The Enchridion's first passage at length:
1. Some things are in our control and others not. Things in our control are opinion, pursuit, desire, aversion, and, in a word, whatever are our own actions. Things not in our control are body, property, reputation, command, and, in one word, whatever are not our own actions.
The things in our control are by nature free, unrestrained, unhindered; but those not in our control are weak, slavish, restrained, belonging to others. Remember, then, that if you suppose that things which are slavish by nature are also free, and that what belongs to others is your own, then you will be hindered. You will lament, you will be disturbed, and you will find fault both with gods and men. But if you suppose that only to be your own which is your own, and what belongs to others such as it really is, then no one will ever compel you or restrain you. Further, you will find fault with no one or accuse no one. You will do nothing against your will. No one will hurt you, you will have no enemies, and you not be harmed.
posted by symbollocks at 8:01 AM on June 28, 2010 [5 favorites]
Exactly. What you need is some Rx-Strength Stoicism. Ever read The Enchiridion by Epictetus or Meditations by Marcus Aurelius? You should. To quote The Enchridion's first passage at length:
1. Some things are in our control and others not. Things in our control are opinion, pursuit, desire, aversion, and, in a word, whatever are our own actions. Things not in our control are body, property, reputation, command, and, in one word, whatever are not our own actions.
The things in our control are by nature free, unrestrained, unhindered; but those not in our control are weak, slavish, restrained, belonging to others. Remember, then, that if you suppose that things which are slavish by nature are also free, and that what belongs to others is your own, then you will be hindered. You will lament, you will be disturbed, and you will find fault both with gods and men. But if you suppose that only to be your own which is your own, and what belongs to others such as it really is, then no one will ever compel you or restrain you. Further, you will find fault with no one or accuse no one. You will do nothing against your will. No one will hurt you, you will have no enemies, and you not be harmed.
posted by symbollocks at 8:01 AM on June 28, 2010 [5 favorites]
I have been in retail in various capacities for 30 years, and I don't waste much time on judge-y, condescending people who make assumptions about who I am and what I know based on my job. You may interpret that as being miserable, but in reality, I just don't have time for you and YOUR poor attitude.
Just sayin'.
posted by kidelo at 8:02 AM on June 28, 2010 [8 favorites]
Just sayin'.
posted by kidelo at 8:02 AM on June 28, 2010 [8 favorites]
Turn the fundamental attribution error on its head. Every time someone seems rude or stupid or whatever else, actively search for explanations other than their personal character. Surely you do rude or stupid things occasionally. Is it because you're a bad person? Of course not. There's always some reason, something external to yourself. Surely the same is often true for others as well.
You don't know what is going on in their heads or in their lives. Why jump to the conclusion that they're idiots? It's better for them and for yourself to believe there is something else causing it. You'll treat them better, they'll treat you better, and you'll honestly just be happier with the world.
A friend of mine would seem to always have stories about rude or incompetent people encountered in retail, on the phone, or just in public in general. I began to wonder, "Why do I not run into these sorts of people so often?" But of course I must. The difference had to be in the observers, in myself and my friend. I encounter the same people, and yet somehow I am generally happy with my interactions with workers and strangers, I am not bothered or stressed out by them nearly as much, and the world just sort of seems to be a better place for me, at least in that way. Attitude and perception count for a lot.
posted by whatnotever at 8:09 AM on June 28, 2010
You don't know what is going on in their heads or in their lives. Why jump to the conclusion that they're idiots? It's better for them and for yourself to believe there is something else causing it. You'll treat them better, they'll treat you better, and you'll honestly just be happier with the world.
A friend of mine would seem to always have stories about rude or incompetent people encountered in retail, on the phone, or just in public in general. I began to wonder, "Why do I not run into these sorts of people so often?" But of course I must. The difference had to be in the observers, in myself and my friend. I encounter the same people, and yet somehow I am generally happy with my interactions with workers and strangers, I am not bothered or stressed out by them nearly as much, and the world just sort of seems to be a better place for me, at least in that way. Attitude and perception count for a lot.
posted by whatnotever at 8:09 AM on June 28, 2010
Best answer: I hate to admit it, but I should probably be in a 12-step program about this. My day job involves transmitting highly finicky data to CSRs to have custom products made (ad specialty products, i.e. stuff with logos on them). The products are inexpensive enough that no one in our industry can hire MBAs to sit there taking orders for this stuff all day, and I'm not sure they'd do a better job if they did.
I know all this intellectually, but some of the stupid mistakes I encounter day by day have dimmed my view of humanity. We spend hours at my company back-checking work that we send to the vendors, and back-checking, and back-checking, because the only way we've found to avoid monumental errors is to mentally assume that everyone at the vendors is an idiot, or at least act like it for the purpose of thinking through what could go wrong.
And it's really corrosive. I find that if I'm not careful it makes me an uptight person when I head out to Subway. It probably helps that I do sales and customer service myself, and manage people who do as well, and it's mentally easier for me to put myself on the other side of the counter.
I think my biggest problem is that because I *know* what good customer service can be, I'm generally patient with clerks, servers etc who are half-trying, but when I get convinced in my own head they really don't care, I can get rather toxic. This is possibly unfair, and definitely counterproductive and beneath my (and their) dignity. (which might be a thought to keep in your head)
Along those lines, it's sometimes helpful to remember that if you're not satisfied with the outcome if they're just kinda "meh," they can really mess you up if you piss them off. Spit in your food, deny the refund on a loophole, send you home with the wrong part...
You can stay pissed off about it, or you can find some serenity about it. You're not gonna change the world.
posted by randomkeystrike at 8:12 AM on June 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
I know all this intellectually, but some of the stupid mistakes I encounter day by day have dimmed my view of humanity. We spend hours at my company back-checking work that we send to the vendors, and back-checking, and back-checking, because the only way we've found to avoid monumental errors is to mentally assume that everyone at the vendors is an idiot, or at least act like it for the purpose of thinking through what could go wrong.
And it's really corrosive. I find that if I'm not careful it makes me an uptight person when I head out to Subway. It probably helps that I do sales and customer service myself, and manage people who do as well, and it's mentally easier for me to put myself on the other side of the counter.
I think my biggest problem is that because I *know* what good customer service can be, I'm generally patient with clerks, servers etc who are half-trying, but when I get convinced in my own head they really don't care, I can get rather toxic. This is possibly unfair, and definitely counterproductive and beneath my (and their) dignity. (which might be a thought to keep in your head)
Along those lines, it's sometimes helpful to remember that if you're not satisfied with the outcome if they're just kinda "meh," they can really mess you up if you piss them off. Spit in your food, deny the refund on a loophole, send you home with the wrong part...
You can stay pissed off about it, or you can find some serenity about it. You're not gonna change the world.
posted by randomkeystrike at 8:12 AM on June 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I have been in retail in various capacities for 30 years, and I don't waste much time on judge-y, condescending people who make assumptions about who I am and what I know based on my job. You may interpret that as being miserable, but in reality, I just don't have time for you and YOUR poor attitude.
I love how everyone assumes that I'm being a douchebag to the workers I'm encountering. This isn't the case at all. I work in a call center doing sales and run into my fair share of idiot customers as well. The difference is that these idiots are my customers. If I didn't have these customers (idiots or not) I wouldn't have a job. As a result I try to adopt a "the customer is always right" mentality. I think people judge more based on performance than they do what actual "job" you have. So the minute you decide that you "don't have time" for the customer, then you might want to consider a new line of work and do everyone a favor.
posted by Hellafiles at 8:18 AM on June 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
I love how everyone assumes that I'm being a douchebag to the workers I'm encountering. This isn't the case at all. I work in a call center doing sales and run into my fair share of idiot customers as well. The difference is that these idiots are my customers. If I didn't have these customers (idiots or not) I wouldn't have a job. As a result I try to adopt a "the customer is always right" mentality. I think people judge more based on performance than they do what actual "job" you have. So the minute you decide that you "don't have time" for the customer, then you might want to consider a new line of work and do everyone a favor.
posted by Hellafiles at 8:18 AM on June 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
I can't imagine that guy in the deli was making too much more than someone in a chain supermarket.
I agree, however the work culture is to blame too; a lot of stores, if you popped open a jar of pickles as an employee, you'd have to pay for them.
That's the same "more for less" idea at work; there's no "tasting" the product, so to speak, so for most grocery store workers, if they haven't had it at home, they're not about to spend their minimum wage on foods so they can speak to how they are.
posted by Hiker at 8:27 AM on June 28, 2010
I agree, however the work culture is to blame too; a lot of stores, if you popped open a jar of pickles as an employee, you'd have to pay for them.
That's the same "more for less" idea at work; there's no "tasting" the product, so to speak, so for most grocery store workers, if they haven't had it at home, they're not about to spend their minimum wage on foods so they can speak to how they are.
posted by Hiker at 8:27 AM on June 28, 2010
What annoys me about bad customer service is those people who are no more responsive than robots. You can get a fixed set of responses from them but if your problem is not in the standard list of 10 most frequent customer questions they stare at you blankly. No initiative, no personal attempt to come up with a solution. But I know why. Because they aren't paid for taking initiative or helping a customer creatively. A lot of them end up getting reprimanded for wasting time with your problem or taking liberties with company policy. Anyone who sticks his neck out to help you instead of doing the easy thing and stacking shelves is worth his weight in gold.
I still get mad, but I get mad at the companies instead.
posted by Omnomnom at 8:30 AM on June 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
I still get mad, but I get mad at the companies instead.
posted by Omnomnom at 8:30 AM on June 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
I love how everyone assumes that I'm being a douchebag to the workers I'm encountering. This isn't the case at all.
What folks are trying to tell you is that you might not have the first clue if you're treating people poorly because people tend to be less suave about hiding their feelings than they think they are.
Or, put another way, if you think the person you're talking to is a complete idiot, there's a very good chance they're going to know it, and they're pretty likely to not feel like kissing your ass to change your mind or going out of their way to help you.
What you can change is your attitude. If you're not getting the kind of help you think you're entitled to, see wat you can do to fix that rather than making assumptions about the other person.
posted by toomuchpete at 8:35 AM on June 28, 2010 [4 favorites]
What folks are trying to tell you is that you might not have the first clue if you're treating people poorly because people tend to be less suave about hiding their feelings than they think they are.
Or, put another way, if you think the person you're talking to is a complete idiot, there's a very good chance they're going to know it, and they're pretty likely to not feel like kissing your ass to change your mind or going out of their way to help you.
What you can change is your attitude. If you're not getting the kind of help you think you're entitled to, see wat you can do to fix that rather than making assumptions about the other person.
posted by toomuchpete at 8:35 AM on June 28, 2010 [4 favorites]
I think some people may be doing a meta-fundamental-attribution-error on the OP. As in, assuming he's experiencing poor service because he's a douche, rather than because of the situation. He's at Lowe's, which is a situational constraint.
This may be instructive for the OP, now that I think about it.
posted by notsnot at 8:36 AM on June 28, 2010
This may be instructive for the OP, now that I think about it.
posted by notsnot at 8:36 AM on June 28, 2010
@Hellafiles, I can read customer attitude as well as you can read server attitude.
Condescension is hard to hide, and I agree with the above posters that are trying to clue you into the fact that YOU are the common denominator and are probably not as good as hiding your attitude as you think.
That being said, I will do my job and serve any customer that comes my way, however I go the extra mile for those who treat me with respect and are generally pleasant to deal with. I only engage with customers that are engaging.
posted by kidelo at 8:52 AM on June 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
Condescension is hard to hide, and I agree with the above posters that are trying to clue you into the fact that YOU are the common denominator and are probably not as good as hiding your attitude as you think.
That being said, I will do my job and serve any customer that comes my way, however I go the extra mile for those who treat me with respect and are generally pleasant to deal with. I only engage with customers that are engaging.
posted by kidelo at 8:52 AM on June 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
There is no way for that not to come across as condescending and demanding, and will piss the human being you are talking to off.
Oh, I never would have suggested that if I thought that - I don't. I've spent years in retail and waiting tables, and when someone recognized that it was a crazy or long day, I appreciated their notice. If someone says that to me with sincere empathy, and I read it as condescending and demanding, the problem is not with them.
A lot of people assume that the problem with shitty service in service jobs is that they don't pay enough. That's certainly a very important piece of the problem, but it's also not the whole problem. Pay is only one aspect of working conditions. The story about the store with the clerk who opened the pickles is a great example - the pay there might not be any better than another grocery store, but the employees are obviously empowered to serve customers in a personal way and to use the store inventory creatively to make sales, today and in the future. There's training and real dollars invested in that, and the message to the employee is "you're truly important to the success of the business, and by investing this time and money in you we strongly believe you will be able to deliver a better customer response overall." To employees, it is a compliment to have some skills other than the "robot" ones invested in. It would be a good place to work because you are able to take pride in your individual performance which is recognized, and build transferable skills.
Those who think cash is the critical factor in employee happiness might want to read about motivation-hygeine theory. It's a construct that basically says that compensation works differently than we think: it's not a direct relationship in which more money = better performance and less money = worse performance. Instead, the factors that create motivation are actually different than the factors that create dissatisfaction. More money doesn't directly translate to more motivation, but less money can easily translate to more dissatisfaction. The upshot is that there's a certain level of compensation that people consider fair for their work; if you go below that level, they'll become dissatisfied, but if you go above that level, you won't get a corresponding increase in motivation. What makes people motivated to work harder are other factors (recognition, opportunity to advance, chance to learn skills, enjoying the work itself) while demotivators include low compensation, bad relationship with the boss and company, and working conditions. For employers, this translates to a philosophy under which you provide good "hygeine" - the basic conditions for worker contentment, like adequate salary and good management, and then you motivate people using a totally separate set of strategies which are more behavior-based, and less money-based.
posted by Miko at 8:55 AM on June 28, 2010 [4 favorites]
Oh, I never would have suggested that if I thought that - I don't. I've spent years in retail and waiting tables, and when someone recognized that it was a crazy or long day, I appreciated their notice. If someone says that to me with sincere empathy, and I read it as condescending and demanding, the problem is not with them.
A lot of people assume that the problem with shitty service in service jobs is that they don't pay enough. That's certainly a very important piece of the problem, but it's also not the whole problem. Pay is only one aspect of working conditions. The story about the store with the clerk who opened the pickles is a great example - the pay there might not be any better than another grocery store, but the employees are obviously empowered to serve customers in a personal way and to use the store inventory creatively to make sales, today and in the future. There's training and real dollars invested in that, and the message to the employee is "you're truly important to the success of the business, and by investing this time and money in you we strongly believe you will be able to deliver a better customer response overall." To employees, it is a compliment to have some skills other than the "robot" ones invested in. It would be a good place to work because you are able to take pride in your individual performance which is recognized, and build transferable skills.
Those who think cash is the critical factor in employee happiness might want to read about motivation-hygeine theory. It's a construct that basically says that compensation works differently than we think: it's not a direct relationship in which more money = better performance and less money = worse performance. Instead, the factors that create motivation are actually different than the factors that create dissatisfaction. More money doesn't directly translate to more motivation, but less money can easily translate to more dissatisfaction. The upshot is that there's a certain level of compensation that people consider fair for their work; if you go below that level, they'll become dissatisfied, but if you go above that level, you won't get a corresponding increase in motivation. What makes people motivated to work harder are other factors (recognition, opportunity to advance, chance to learn skills, enjoying the work itself) while demotivators include low compensation, bad relationship with the boss and company, and working conditions. For employers, this translates to a philosophy under which you provide good "hygeine" - the basic conditions for worker contentment, like adequate salary and good management, and then you motivate people using a totally separate set of strategies which are more behavior-based, and less money-based.
posted by Miko at 8:55 AM on June 28, 2010 [4 favorites]
I was trying to work up the serenity to answer your question, but your choice of words and most of the answers you've highlighted and that I've skimmed (Miko's and Jaltcoh's being notable exceptions) are too depressing for me and I don't think I have the language skills to get much of what I'd want to say across. (I'm working on it.)
So I'm just posting to say: maybe this can help you. And that seeing other people as zombies and unmotivated, below average idiots will not help you. And that, instead of questioning people's competence or seeing them as at fault for not having proven their abilities to you in these short commercial encounters, maybe question the diminishing value of what your money is able to get you now.
I don't know about changing the world. In any case, start with yourself. You are not just a customer and no one's purpose in life is to service you or prove anything to you, no matter what you pay. Try to relate to human beings as fellow human beings, and if you can't - don't blame them. Be thankful for what you have - the money to buy "better" service and the luxury to judge those who need your money. Don't make the mistake of thinking that your "smartness" or money or Americanness (or American idea of competence) makes you better than anyone else - much of that is accidental, the rest is systemic, and what's left over of you is what you can take control of in order to think better, clearer and beyond yourself. Or not.
In any case, don't think that your personal standards and judgment says anything real about any other individual except yourself. Don't not connect what you think to what you've been taught to think, and rewarded to think, by your culture. And do ask: why?
posted by mondaygreens at 9:04 AM on June 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
So I'm just posting to say: maybe this can help you. And that seeing other people as zombies and unmotivated, below average idiots will not help you. And that, instead of questioning people's competence or seeing them as at fault for not having proven their abilities to you in these short commercial encounters, maybe question the diminishing value of what your money is able to get you now.
I don't know about changing the world. In any case, start with yourself. You are not just a customer and no one's purpose in life is to service you or prove anything to you, no matter what you pay. Try to relate to human beings as fellow human beings, and if you can't - don't blame them. Be thankful for what you have - the money to buy "better" service and the luxury to judge those who need your money. Don't make the mistake of thinking that your "smartness" or money or Americanness (or American idea of competence) makes you better than anyone else - much of that is accidental, the rest is systemic, and what's left over of you is what you can take control of in order to think better, clearer and beyond yourself. Or not.
In any case, don't think that your personal standards and judgment says anything real about any other individual except yourself. Don't not connect what you think to what you've been taught to think, and rewarded to think, by your culture. And do ask: why?
posted by mondaygreens at 9:04 AM on June 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
I love how everyone assumes that I'm being a douchebag to the workers I'm encountering.
"While running my normal errands yesterday, nearly every "employee" I encountered at Lowes, the Gas Station, restaurants, were complete idiots."
"In the midst of this recession shouldn't these people be happy to even have a job?"
"I need to find a different way to deal with these zombies."
I think it's worth taking a look at the way you've generalized from discreet interactions with individuals whose performance you were unhappy with to a mass of "these people" who are "complete idiots" and "zombies." You've turned an entire socioeconomic class who are struggling to keep food on the table with legitimate labor in hard times into others that are basically not possessing human attributes. That's elitism, and as others have pointed out, it distances one from poor and working class people, eroding empathy in a way that I personally feel is culturally caustic.
I'm not sure what to answer in terms of recommended readings. Were you hoping to challenge your perceptions or reinforce them? If the former, Nickel and Dimed is a really great suggestion. If the latter, perhaps something by Ayn Rand or Nietzsche?
posted by The Straightener at 9:04 AM on June 28, 2010 [17 favorites]
"While running my normal errands yesterday, nearly every "employee" I encountered at Lowes, the Gas Station, restaurants, were complete idiots."
"In the midst of this recession shouldn't these people be happy to even have a job?"
"I need to find a different way to deal with these zombies."
I think it's worth taking a look at the way you've generalized from discreet interactions with individuals whose performance you were unhappy with to a mass of "these people" who are "complete idiots" and "zombies." You've turned an entire socioeconomic class who are struggling to keep food on the table with legitimate labor in hard times into others that are basically not possessing human attributes. That's elitism, and as others have pointed out, it distances one from poor and working class people, eroding empathy in a way that I personally feel is culturally caustic.
I'm not sure what to answer in terms of recommended readings. Were you hoping to challenge your perceptions or reinforce them? If the former, Nickel and Dimed is a really great suggestion. If the latter, perhaps something by Ayn Rand or Nietzsche?
posted by The Straightener at 9:04 AM on June 28, 2010 [17 favorites]
Response by poster: Okay so my choice of words was a bit harsh, and I didn't mean to paint everyone in these types of jobs with the same brush. I'm really not some elitist asshole who thinks I'm better than someone in that type of job. There are "zombies" in every levels of jobs from CEO's to gas station attendants and everything in between. Since I come in contact with more clerks than I do CEO's, that's the example I used.
I think it's fair to say that everyone who has responded to my question has in some way experienced what I described. The realization that it's pretty rare on a daily basis to encounter someone who provides good service, no matter their status in life or their job. While it's difficult for me to gauge my own performance in dealing with my customers, I can only rely on the positive feedback my customers have submitted to my bosses as a benchmark that I'm providing good service. I don't consider that "making me better" than anyone else, I just look at it like I'm conducting myself in a manner that pleases my customers. That's all.
I also recognize good service when I receive it. I send e-mails, or ask for a manager to give kudos to people who I feel did a good job. I know how far this type of praise can go. I also know how difficult it can be to treat the 100th customer you talk to in a day as well as you treated the 1st person you talked to. I get it.
So I apologize if I came across as sounding "better", or if my usage of the words "zombie" or "idiots" to describe people who could care less if they are adding value offended anyone.
I just wanted some suggestions on how to better accept the fact that everyone doesn't care in the same way as I do. And to see if anyone also felt this way to the point of it making them a bit depressed.
posted by Hellafiles at 9:50 AM on June 28, 2010
I think it's fair to say that everyone who has responded to my question has in some way experienced what I described. The realization that it's pretty rare on a daily basis to encounter someone who provides good service, no matter their status in life or their job. While it's difficult for me to gauge my own performance in dealing with my customers, I can only rely on the positive feedback my customers have submitted to my bosses as a benchmark that I'm providing good service. I don't consider that "making me better" than anyone else, I just look at it like I'm conducting myself in a manner that pleases my customers. That's all.
I also recognize good service when I receive it. I send e-mails, or ask for a manager to give kudos to people who I feel did a good job. I know how far this type of praise can go. I also know how difficult it can be to treat the 100th customer you talk to in a day as well as you treated the 1st person you talked to. I get it.
So I apologize if I came across as sounding "better", or if my usage of the words "zombie" or "idiots" to describe people who could care less if they are adding value offended anyone.
I just wanted some suggestions on how to better accept the fact that everyone doesn't care in the same way as I do. And to see if anyone also felt this way to the point of it making them a bit depressed.
posted by Hellafiles at 9:50 AM on June 28, 2010
As an aside, Hellafiles, The Fresh Market allows you to try anything in the store!
Carry on.
posted by ThaBombShelterSmith at 9:56 AM on June 28, 2010
Carry on.
posted by ThaBombShelterSmith at 9:56 AM on June 28, 2010
Man, whenever I come across somebody who's slacking - like, forgets to put two of my grocery bags in the cart, or has no idea where the thing is I just asked about - I do what I can to help us both, ESPECIALLY if I'm in a terrible mood. That way, the person is better equipped the next time and if I go back, that person is usually friendlier to me than before.
Example 1: Teenager is bagging my groceries and putting eggs and ice cream in the same bag as toilet cleaner and shampoo.
ME: Hey, when I worked at Tom Thumb in college I found it easier to double-bag all the frozen and cold stuff together, that way, people sometimes tipped me because they didn't have to dig through every bag to find their melting ice cream with they got home (big smile)! *begins grouping cold/frozen things together and helping bag groceries*
Example 2: I ask the dude at Lowe's if they have actual gravel to pour a walking path instead of stepping stones or pavement kits; he doesn't know.
ME: Well, I remember seeing them on your web site but I wasn't sure if they were available in the store. Maybe you can look it up in the store's inventory for me? Try these keywords: gravel, garden, stone, bagged, outdoor. *BIG SMILE*
Maybe it's because I'm a woman, but I find that being friendly and trying to help the person learn how to engage with customers better, it often works. In fact, I always go out of my way to be extra nice to pharmacists, grocery store employees and delivery people of any kind. If it's someone I know I won't run into again, I try to give an unexpected compliment, specifically unrelated to the service. It's amazing how much somebody who's having an especially shitty day perks up and is nice to you when you initiate the niceties.
Now, if the person's just an unrepentant, consistent jackass, then I'd probably quietly approach one of their coworkers or the manager and say, "I'm sorry, I hate to bother you, but could YOU help me? I've tried repeatedly to get (service/product) from _____ and he/she doesn't seem to understand what I'm asking/know what I'm looking for."
(The key to making this approach work: Seem concerned about the person you're complaining about first instead of pissed off; people often react in kind, so if you're angry, coworker/manager will be defensive and upset; if you seem worried, unless the business is totally slammed and you've already got a reputation around the business for being an unreasonable customer, you'll get what you were looking for and ____ may get some kind of disciplinary action or additional training, warranted or not. Problem solved.)
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 9:58 AM on June 28, 2010
Example 1: Teenager is bagging my groceries and putting eggs and ice cream in the same bag as toilet cleaner and shampoo.
ME: Hey, when I worked at Tom Thumb in college I found it easier to double-bag all the frozen and cold stuff together, that way, people sometimes tipped me because they didn't have to dig through every bag to find their melting ice cream with they got home (big smile)! *begins grouping cold/frozen things together and helping bag groceries*
Example 2: I ask the dude at Lowe's if they have actual gravel to pour a walking path instead of stepping stones or pavement kits; he doesn't know.
ME: Well, I remember seeing them on your web site but I wasn't sure if they were available in the store. Maybe you can look it up in the store's inventory for me? Try these keywords: gravel, garden, stone, bagged, outdoor. *BIG SMILE*
Maybe it's because I'm a woman, but I find that being friendly and trying to help the person learn how to engage with customers better, it often works. In fact, I always go out of my way to be extra nice to pharmacists, grocery store employees and delivery people of any kind. If it's someone I know I won't run into again, I try to give an unexpected compliment, specifically unrelated to the service. It's amazing how much somebody who's having an especially shitty day perks up and is nice to you when you initiate the niceties.
Now, if the person's just an unrepentant, consistent jackass, then I'd probably quietly approach one of their coworkers or the manager and say, "I'm sorry, I hate to bother you, but could YOU help me? I've tried repeatedly to get (service/product) from _____ and he/she doesn't seem to understand what I'm asking/know what I'm looking for."
(The key to making this approach work: Seem concerned about the person you're complaining about first instead of pissed off; people often react in kind, so if you're angry, coworker/manager will be defensive and upset; if you seem worried, unless the business is totally slammed and you've already got a reputation around the business for being an unreasonable customer, you'll get what you were looking for and ____ may get some kind of disciplinary action or additional training, warranted or not. Problem solved.)
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 9:58 AM on June 28, 2010
I just wanted some suggestions on how to better accept the fact that everyone doesn't care in the same way as I do.
That's much clearer, but it seems to me like this is actually a facet of a much larger question, i.e. how do I learn to accept thing that are beyond my control, that people don't value things (work, relationships, whatever) the same ways I do, etc. This answer was spot on in that regard.
posted by LooseFilter at 9:59 AM on June 28, 2010
That's much clearer, but it seems to me like this is actually a facet of a much larger question, i.e. how do I learn to accept thing that are beyond my control, that people don't value things (work, relationships, whatever) the same ways I do, etc. This answer was spot on in that regard.
posted by LooseFilter at 9:59 AM on June 28, 2010
How to better accept the fact that everyone doesn't care in the same way as I do.
Judging from your comments, the last word I'd use to describe anything you do is "care."
Alas, the fact that you use the word depressed—even jokingly or what have you—tells me there's a bit of projection and frustration on your end that you're unconsciously leashing onto others. Do us all a favor and shop online for a while.
posted by blazingunicorn at 10:02 AM on June 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
Judging from your comments, the last word I'd use to describe anything you do is "care."
Alas, the fact that you use the word depressed—even jokingly or what have you—tells me there's a bit of projection and frustration on your end that you're unconsciously leashing onto others. Do us all a favor and shop online for a while.
posted by blazingunicorn at 10:02 AM on June 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
Well, OK. Why should they care if they're adding value? I mean, seriously. You care for your own reasons, but why should that guy at Lowe's care? He's probably underpaid and has no hope of a raise in this economy; the industry he primarily supplies is in a horrible slump; there's no promotion he can angle for that a thousand people with more experience aren't already ahead of him for. He interacts every day with people who regard him with contempt, whether naked or thinly veiled. What's in it for him to care?
People are the product of their environments. If someone is paid the minimum and given no power to be at all flexible to respond to customer demands, they will rapidly learn to offer the minimum effort and save their flexibility and creativity for a place where it will be rewarded and not punished. I used to work front-line phone technical support for a major operating system, and something like 70% of our service-level agreement score was based on how fast we got people off the phone. You think we provided excellent customer service? We did not. We would provide half-assed solutions, refuse to stay on the phone through a reboot, sometimes outright lie to the customer to get them the hell off the phone and keep our call times down. Once I transferred up to second-tier support, where the major component of my SLA score was "percentage of problems solved," my enjoyment of the job grew immensely.
posted by KathrynT at 10:05 AM on June 28, 2010 [5 favorites]
People are the product of their environments. If someone is paid the minimum and given no power to be at all flexible to respond to customer demands, they will rapidly learn to offer the minimum effort and save their flexibility and creativity for a place where it will be rewarded and not punished. I used to work front-line phone technical support for a major operating system, and something like 70% of our service-level agreement score was based on how fast we got people off the phone. You think we provided excellent customer service? We did not. We would provide half-assed solutions, refuse to stay on the phone through a reboot, sometimes outright lie to the customer to get them the hell off the phone and keep our call times down. Once I transferred up to second-tier support, where the major component of my SLA score was "percentage of problems solved," my enjoyment of the job grew immensely.
posted by KathrynT at 10:05 AM on June 28, 2010 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: Well, OK. Why should they care if they're adding value? I mean, seriously. You care for your own reasons, but why should that guy at Lowe's care? He's probably underpaid and has no hope of a raise in this economy; the industry he primarily supplies is in a horrible slump; there's no promotion he can angle for that a thousand people with more experience aren't already ahead of him for. He interacts every day with people who regard him with contempt, whether naked or thinly veiled. What's in it for him to care?
If you honestly believe that everyone who doesn't have a job that challenges them, pays them well, and has opportunity for advancement has an open door to do a shitty job then we are in a really bad way as a country.
posted by Hellafiles at 10:36 AM on June 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
If you honestly believe that everyone who doesn't have a job that challenges them, pays them well, and has opportunity for advancement has an open door to do a shitty job then we are in a really bad way as a country.
posted by Hellafiles at 10:36 AM on June 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
@Hellafiles.... I understand your frustration as its something that bothers me almost on a daily basis,.. however I've never found an acceptable answer. You can't MAKE other people care or live up to better standards,.. so the only coping behavior I've found (which leaves me feeling fairly anti-social) is simply to limit my interaction with idiots and seek out/engage more capable people. Another coping strategy I sometimes use is to structure my interaction with idiots in such a way that it forces them out of "idiot-mode". (use tools of conversation, body language and environmental influences to nudge them into thinking objectively and rationally towards the most common-sense solution). IE = look at it as an opportunity to teach/lead them to better ways of doing things. Sadly this takes an enormous amount of energy. .and it's not something I can do on a daily basis for any extended period of time.
posted by jmnugent at 10:37 AM on June 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by jmnugent at 10:37 AM on June 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
Can you give examples from your recent encounters with retail workers that you thought fell below what you expected from customer service? So far you've just given vague references to the employees being "idiots" or "zombies". What, and be specific, were you wanting that you did not get? When you didn't get x thing, what did you do? I'm curious as to what your expectations are that everyone in retail is failing you.
posted by asockpuppet at 10:40 AM on June 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by asockpuppet at 10:40 AM on June 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
Finding someone competent at anything is always a significant challenge. It isn't just bottom rung retail employees. Read the Peter Principle for an explanation of why large organizations are particularly prone to having incompetents scattered at all levels of the hierarchy. Accept this as the default and be grateful for the exceptions.
-----
What's in it for him to care?
His own integrity is at stake. That is what's in it for him.
posted by BigSky at 10:58 AM on June 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
-----
What's in it for him to care?
His own integrity is at stake. That is what's in it for him.
posted by BigSky at 10:58 AM on June 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
I just wanted some suggestions on how to better accept the fact that everyone doesn't care in the same way as I do.
Be glad that they're doing that job and you aren't. They probably hate the job, and there are plenty of rotten customers out there too who treat them like garbage or think they're idiots. You only have to be in there with them for a few minutes - they're there every day.
Yeah, some people aren't that bright, some people aren't very nice, and some people just don't give a crap about others. That's humanity, both in the workplace and outside the workplace. Unless they're having a direct, negative impact on your quality of life, just let it be. Focus more on yourself and how you can be satisfied with your own actions and less on the actions of others.
posted by wondermouse at 11:19 AM on June 28, 2010
Be glad that they're doing that job and you aren't. They probably hate the job, and there are plenty of rotten customers out there too who treat them like garbage or think they're idiots. You only have to be in there with them for a few minutes - they're there every day.
Yeah, some people aren't that bright, some people aren't very nice, and some people just don't give a crap about others. That's humanity, both in the workplace and outside the workplace. Unless they're having a direct, negative impact on your quality of life, just let it be. Focus more on yourself and how you can be satisfied with your own actions and less on the actions of others.
posted by wondermouse at 11:19 AM on June 28, 2010
Treat people like people without making assumptions about them, no matter what their job entails or their position in life, and you will be a better person for it. Saying "all service employees are like this" isn't really that different from saying "all black people or Indians or gays or women are like this". They are a group of people like any other, vast and varied, and more like you than you might think.
You may be coming off as a jerk without knowing it. People who work in service jobs can detect a condescending attitude from a mile away. For example, and I'm not saying you do this, but a lot of customers think it's totally okay to talk on their cell phone throughout a transaction, but it's not. It sends the message that you don't view the cashier as a person but a machine unworthy of acknowledgement. Again, not saying you do this, but there might be some other behavior of yours that strikes the same chord.
I'd also like to point out that just about all the smartest and most interesting people I know have had to eke out a living at a "menial" job at some point in their life. And you know what? Even if the person serving you isn't the sharpest tool in the shed and ends up screwing something up, they're still a human being and maybe a very good one at that. You don't know because you don't know them. So it's best to treat them with as much patience and kindness as you can muster.
Yes, there can be times that service people are really rude through no fault of the customer's and while I'm not pleased when it happens to me, I try to chalk it up to overworked, underpaid and under respected. I tell myself that their life is probably harder than mine right now and let it go.
As to the customer is always right - this motto serves you well if you're self-employed, but the larger the enterprise, generally, the further the ground level employees are from customer satisfaction having any bearing on their well-being. They'll still get the same crummy hourly rate whether they give you top notch service or spit in your food. Thus the attitude is not based on ohmigodthankusomuchforbeingacustomerandallowingmetohaveajob but on how you treat them as a person. Just like in every other human interaction. The few people I've known in my own work life who truly took "the customer is always right" to heart were also always the first people to screw over a fellow employee, were often made managers and never invited to parties. That's not to say that good customer service shouldn't be default - it should. But the customer is not a god and should not be rewarded for rotten behavior.
Finally, people with low paying jobs by no means have a monopoly on assholishness, shiftlessness and incompetence. Like the clap, such behavior permeates all walks of life.
posted by Jess the Mess at 11:29 AM on June 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
You may be coming off as a jerk without knowing it. People who work in service jobs can detect a condescending attitude from a mile away. For example, and I'm not saying you do this, but a lot of customers think it's totally okay to talk on their cell phone throughout a transaction, but it's not. It sends the message that you don't view the cashier as a person but a machine unworthy of acknowledgement. Again, not saying you do this, but there might be some other behavior of yours that strikes the same chord.
I'd also like to point out that just about all the smartest and most interesting people I know have had to eke out a living at a "menial" job at some point in their life. And you know what? Even if the person serving you isn't the sharpest tool in the shed and ends up screwing something up, they're still a human being and maybe a very good one at that. You don't know because you don't know them. So it's best to treat them with as much patience and kindness as you can muster.
Yes, there can be times that service people are really rude through no fault of the customer's and while I'm not pleased when it happens to me, I try to chalk it up to overworked, underpaid and under respected. I tell myself that their life is probably harder than mine right now and let it go.
As to the customer is always right - this motto serves you well if you're self-employed, but the larger the enterprise, generally, the further the ground level employees are from customer satisfaction having any bearing on their well-being. They'll still get the same crummy hourly rate whether they give you top notch service or spit in your food. Thus the attitude is not based on ohmigodthankusomuchforbeingacustomerandallowingmetohaveajob but on how you treat them as a person. Just like in every other human interaction. The few people I've known in my own work life who truly took "the customer is always right" to heart were also always the first people to screw over a fellow employee, were often made managers and never invited to parties. That's not to say that good customer service shouldn't be default - it should. But the customer is not a god and should not be rewarded for rotten behavior.
Finally, people with low paying jobs by no means have a monopoly on assholishness, shiftlessness and incompetence. Like the clap, such behavior permeates all walks of life.
posted by Jess the Mess at 11:29 AM on June 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
As an aside, Hellafiles, The Fresh Market allows you to try anything in the store!
In other words, your outstanding customer service moment was dictated by...company policy. I think we could all probably name half a dozen grocery stores where that same wonderful moment would have had less than wonderful results for the employee. "Customer service," at many places of business, is shorthand for "rule enforcer."
Pay attention the next time one of your own customers doesn't get what they want or is treated poorly because you have to follow company policy. The odds are good that they'll think you're a zombiefied idiot, too.
posted by gnomeloaf at 11:33 AM on June 28, 2010
In other words, your outstanding customer service moment was dictated by...company policy. I think we could all probably name half a dozen grocery stores where that same wonderful moment would have had less than wonderful results for the employee. "Customer service," at many places of business, is shorthand for "rule enforcer."
Pay attention the next time one of your own customers doesn't get what they want or is treated poorly because you have to follow company policy. The odds are good that they'll think you're a zombiefied idiot, too.
posted by gnomeloaf at 11:33 AM on June 28, 2010
Hellafiles, a lot of people on Metafilter care about the language in which a question is posed and the words that are is used to describe the individuals or groups of people in question. When you wrote your question, you did not care about that - not because you're a jerk, but because you were busy caring about other things.
Still, your question failed to add value to my life and instead made me depressed. I'm not trying to one-up you (I mentioned my issues with your question upthread ). So if you're asking for strategies, I'd say remember that people are different, we're all in different circumstances, and we tend to care about what we already care about. And that we care about ourselves first. Remember that you're as prone to this as anyone else. None of us has all the time or luxury in the world to care about everything. And many of us don't have the luxury or insight or impetus to care about others.
People in positions who are lower paid tend to have other challenges besides the challenges of their jobs - like how to keep their job in this economy - and most of those challenges are not fun-challenging, but real challenges. Yet people who deal with the most impersonal challenges (big corporations, other people's livelihoods) are usually much better paid. People who are working mostly to be able to afford living are not incompetents, they're just challenged much more and much differently than you. I hope that next time you feel you are not served well or that someone doesn't care about what you care about, you will stop to care about them instead of judging them for not caring about you.
posted by mondaygreens at 11:42 AM on June 28, 2010 [5 favorites]
Still, your question failed to add value to my life and instead made me depressed. I'm not trying to one-up you (I mentioned my issues with your question upthread ). So if you're asking for strategies, I'd say remember that people are different, we're all in different circumstances, and we tend to care about what we already care about. And that we care about ourselves first. Remember that you're as prone to this as anyone else. None of us has all the time or luxury in the world to care about everything. And many of us don't have the luxury or insight or impetus to care about others.
People in positions who are lower paid tend to have other challenges besides the challenges of their jobs - like how to keep their job in this economy - and most of those challenges are not fun-challenging, but real challenges. Yet people who deal with the most impersonal challenges (big corporations, other people's livelihoods) are usually much better paid. People who are working mostly to be able to afford living are not incompetents, they're just challenged much more and much differently than you. I hope that next time you feel you are not served well or that someone doesn't care about what you care about, you will stop to care about them instead of judging them for not caring about you.
posted by mondaygreens at 11:42 AM on June 28, 2010 [5 favorites]
If you honestly believe that everyone who doesn't have a job that challenges them, pays them well, and has opportunity for advancement has an open door to do a shitty job then we are in a really bad way as a country.
I believe that every mefi user is important and special and snowflake-like, but I do not think that KathrynT's opinion on employee motivation dictates the situation of an entire nation.
Sorry, KathrynT.
posted by toomuchpete at 11:46 AM on June 28, 2010
I believe that every mefi user is important and special and snowflake-like, but I do not think that KathrynT's opinion on employee motivation dictates the situation of an entire nation.
Sorry, KathrynT.
posted by toomuchpete at 11:46 AM on June 28, 2010
Response by poster: In other words, your outstanding customer service moment was dictated by...company policy. I think we could all probably name half a dozen grocery stores where that same wonderful moment would have had less than wonderful results for the employee. "Customer service," at many places of business, is shorthand for "rule enforcer."
Pay attention the next time one of your own customers doesn't get what they want or is treated poorly because you have to follow company policy. The odds are good that they'll think you're a zombiefied idiot, too.
My negative experiences weren't based on me being "wronged" in some way by the gas station. I'm talking about simple interactions like ringing up a pack of cigarettes and an iced tea. Or by asking what isle I could find an item in. There was no "company policy" involved as far as I could see.
And believe it or not, it's still possible to provide good service even when you can't do exactly what a customer is asking for due to company policy.
posted by Hellafiles at 11:55 AM on June 28, 2010
Pay attention the next time one of your own customers doesn't get what they want or is treated poorly because you have to follow company policy. The odds are good that they'll think you're a zombiefied idiot, too.
My negative experiences weren't based on me being "wronged" in some way by the gas station. I'm talking about simple interactions like ringing up a pack of cigarettes and an iced tea. Or by asking what isle I could find an item in. There was no "company policy" involved as far as I could see.
And believe it or not, it's still possible to provide good service even when you can't do exactly what a customer is asking for due to company policy.
posted by Hellafiles at 11:55 AM on June 28, 2010
The realization that it's pretty rare on a daily basis to encounter someone who provides good service
Really? While I have received poor service on occasion, in my experience that is by far an exception and not the rule.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 11:57 AM on June 28, 2010
Really? While I have received poor service on occasion, in my experience that is by far an exception and not the rule.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 11:57 AM on June 28, 2010
These types of jobs don't pay very well. Smart people are attracted to better paying jobs; therefore, these jobs are filled by the less intelligent and less motivated.
Nearly everyone you've ever encountered who is competent started at one of these low-level jobs, and did the job very well -- that's how they've advanced in life. I've noticed a sharp decline in customer service over the years, but that may be a by-product of moving from the East to West Coast. And since average wages for menial jobs were much, much lower in the East relative to cost of living, I don't think it has anything to do with pay.
posted by coolguymichael at 11:57 AM on June 28, 2010
Nearly everyone you've ever encountered who is competent started at one of these low-level jobs, and did the job very well -- that's how they've advanced in life. I've noticed a sharp decline in customer service over the years, but that may be a by-product of moving from the East to West Coast. And since average wages for menial jobs were much, much lower in the East relative to cost of living, I don't think it has anything to do with pay.
posted by coolguymichael at 11:57 AM on June 28, 2010
I've noticed a sharp decline in customer service over the years, but that may be a by-product of moving from the East to West Coast.
When it comes to making comparisons from one time to the next, economic considerations come into play. If we look at the economy of 30 years ago versus that of today, low-wage and low-skilled workers are much worse off than they were before. The jobs at that level are more dead-end now and compensate less in inflation-adjusted dollars. They are less likely to offer benefits such as medical, union representation, pension/retirement, and bonuses, and there is more of a rigid division between low-wage entry level jobs and management jobs, which today almost always require some degree beyond high school. Add to that that the cost of major improvements to a working person's life - home ownership, autos, health insurance, college tuition - were in real dollars a lot more affordable 20-30 years ago than they are now, so that a working person or couple could hope to invest in greater stability and achieve some important life goals by working at even a menial job. All of this translates to an environment offering less in the way of motivating factors.
posted by Miko at 12:04 PM on June 28, 2010
When it comes to making comparisons from one time to the next, economic considerations come into play. If we look at the economy of 30 years ago versus that of today, low-wage and low-skilled workers are much worse off than they were before. The jobs at that level are more dead-end now and compensate less in inflation-adjusted dollars. They are less likely to offer benefits such as medical, union representation, pension/retirement, and bonuses, and there is more of a rigid division between low-wage entry level jobs and management jobs, which today almost always require some degree beyond high school. Add to that that the cost of major improvements to a working person's life - home ownership, autos, health insurance, college tuition - were in real dollars a lot more affordable 20-30 years ago than they are now, so that a working person or couple could hope to invest in greater stability and achieve some important life goals by working at even a menial job. All of this translates to an environment offering less in the way of motivating factors.
posted by Miko at 12:04 PM on June 28, 2010
My negative experiences weren't based on me being "wronged" in some way by the gas station. I'm talking about simple interactions like ringing up a pack of cigarettes and an iced tea. Or by asking what isle I could find an item in. There was no "company policy" involved as far as I could see.
Ok, getting warmer. What happened in these interactions that made you think the person was an idiot zombie? What did you want them to do differently?
posted by asockpuppet at 12:08 PM on June 28, 2010
Ok, getting warmer. What happened in these interactions that made you think the person was an idiot zombie? What did you want them to do differently?
posted by asockpuppet at 12:08 PM on June 28, 2010
My negative experiences weren't based on me being "wronged" in some way by the gas station. I'm talking about simple interactions like ringing up a pack of cigarettes and an iced tea. Or by asking what isle I could find an item in. There was no "company policy" involved as far as I could see.
So, what was the problem? Were they unable to ring up the cigarettes and iced tea or did they just not throw a birthday party for you while doing so. Again, you need to express your question / needs / concern with clarity. What were you expecting in the intereaction and what was the reality of what happened?
posted by WeekendJen at 12:13 PM on June 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
So, what was the problem? Were they unable to ring up the cigarettes and iced tea or did they just not throw a birthday party for you while doing so. Again, you need to express your question / needs / concern with clarity. What were you expecting in the intereaction and what was the reality of what happened?
posted by WeekendJen at 12:13 PM on June 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
I'm often puzzled by these questions because, frankly, I don't have the same problem with bad service.
When I need help I approach someone in a friendly, respectful manner, and I usually get friendly and respectful help in return. I don't think I've run into someone who's been really sullen and unhelpful since I stopped going to this one particular restaurant in my town over a year ago. Complaints about how you just can't get good service these days go right over my head. On the flip side, I worked in the service industry for a long time, and while some people were puzzlingly rude, on the whole, most were nice and it wasn't the hell that lots of people complain it is.
I'm not all about ~energy~ and ~good vibrations~, but perhaps expectations play into it as well? I mean, we're not all great actors. Even if you attempt to be polite, maybe it shows through that you're expecting the encounter to be unpleasant? If you go shopping with a friend some day--and not a cynical, grumpy friend, a friendly and happy friend!-- have them approach the employees and see if they get a different response. Maybe the way you approach them comes off as unfriendly even if you don't mean it to. I know some customers would use a tone of voice to catch my attention that immediately put me on the defensive, even if they were really polite for the rest of the encounter.
Or maybe your part of the country just sucks about this.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 12:18 PM on June 28, 2010 [4 favorites]
When I need help I approach someone in a friendly, respectful manner, and I usually get friendly and respectful help in return. I don't think I've run into someone who's been really sullen and unhelpful since I stopped going to this one particular restaurant in my town over a year ago. Complaints about how you just can't get good service these days go right over my head. On the flip side, I worked in the service industry for a long time, and while some people were puzzlingly rude, on the whole, most were nice and it wasn't the hell that lots of people complain it is.
I'm not all about ~energy~ and ~good vibrations~, but perhaps expectations play into it as well? I mean, we're not all great actors. Even if you attempt to be polite, maybe it shows through that you're expecting the encounter to be unpleasant? If you go shopping with a friend some day--and not a cynical, grumpy friend, a friendly and happy friend!-- have them approach the employees and see if they get a different response. Maybe the way you approach them comes off as unfriendly even if you don't mean it to. I know some customers would use a tone of voice to catch my attention that immediately put me on the defensive, even if they were really polite for the rest of the encounter.
Or maybe your part of the country just sucks about this.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 12:18 PM on June 28, 2010 [4 favorites]
And believe it or not, it's still possible to provide good service even when you can't do exactly what a customer is asking for due to company policy.
Again, you're coming off as this high maintenance customer who expects not just gold plated service, but for you, the employee, to just drop everything and cater to your whims. This may not be the reality, but it's the vibe I'm getting from your answers (You're really telling people it's possible to do good customer service when you can't exactly help the customer, really? That's not rocket science). None of these things are bad in and of themselves, but often I think people forget that they need to be a good customer too, not only to get what they need or want, but as basic human dignity.
Also, you also seem to be hitting the really annoying brick wall of "I did/do it, why can't anyone else?!" Such an attitude smacks of arrogance and a lack of empathy for workers and I gotta tell, they can sniff out that 'tude from a mile away and it probably shapes their attitude towards you.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:10 PM on June 28, 2010
Again, you're coming off as this high maintenance customer who expects not just gold plated service, but for you, the employee, to just drop everything and cater to your whims. This may not be the reality, but it's the vibe I'm getting from your answers (You're really telling people it's possible to do good customer service when you can't exactly help the customer, really? That's not rocket science). None of these things are bad in and of themselves, but often I think people forget that they need to be a good customer too, not only to get what they need or want, but as basic human dignity.
Also, you also seem to be hitting the really annoying brick wall of "I did/do it, why can't anyone else?!" Such an attitude smacks of arrogance and a lack of empathy for workers and I gotta tell, they can sniff out that 'tude from a mile away and it probably shapes their attitude towards you.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:10 PM on June 28, 2010
Response by poster: Again, you're coming off as this high maintenance customer who expects not just gold plated service, but for you, the employee, to just drop everything and cater to your whims.
This couldn't be farther from the truth!!
- I'm just a regular guy that takes pride in providing good service at my job (no matter what it is) and wondered why more people don't.
- I'm a completely nice, laid back, non demanding customer...
- Lately I'd been frustrated by poor service that I seemed to be experiencing..
- I made the comment that I was beginning to feel as if most of the people I was dealing with were "idiots" and "zombies"
- I asked for some insight on how other people didn't let this type of thing bother them..
- I posed the question that with the unemployment rate this high you'd think people would be happier with ANY job, and not seem so miserable
Nothing epic happened to me for me ask these questions, just general bad service from people who seemed miserable & zombie like..
So, I'm not sure where this thread went nuts, but at least a few people seem to understand what I was asking without portraying me as a tyrant.
posted by Hellafiles at 1:30 PM on June 28, 2010
This couldn't be farther from the truth!!
- I'm just a regular guy that takes pride in providing good service at my job (no matter what it is) and wondered why more people don't.
- I'm a completely nice, laid back, non demanding customer...
- Lately I'd been frustrated by poor service that I seemed to be experiencing..
- I made the comment that I was beginning to feel as if most of the people I was dealing with were "idiots" and "zombies"
- I asked for some insight on how other people didn't let this type of thing bother them..
- I posed the question that with the unemployment rate this high you'd think people would be happier with ANY job, and not seem so miserable
Nothing epic happened to me for me ask these questions, just general bad service from people who seemed miserable & zombie like..
So, I'm not sure where this thread went nuts, but at least a few people seem to understand what I was asking without portraying me as a tyrant.
posted by Hellafiles at 1:30 PM on June 28, 2010
Nothing epic happened to me for me ask these questions, just general bad service from people who seemed miserable & zombie like..
You still haven't told us what it was that made the service you received bad.
posted by asockpuppet at 1:32 PM on June 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
You still haven't told us what it was that made the service you received bad.
posted by asockpuppet at 1:32 PM on June 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
I used to work at a Fresh Market, and they do about as much screwed up, awful stuff to their employees as anywhere else does. And they employ right from the bottom of the barrel right about just as often. There was little room for "advancement", and several employees had hit the ceiling of how much Fresh Market would ever pay them.
(Here's a real-life Fresh Market scenario: Imagine you are a middle-aged woman who is never entitled to another raise, ever again. You are paid terribly, despite that you have spent over a decade conscientiously working your ass off for Fresh Market. Your husband has a cerebral event that completely disables him, and can no longer work. You can now barely take care of yourself and your husband. You aren't qualified to do much else. How much of your effort do you think you owe the FM at this point?)
Offering samples was a part of our job. It had nothing to do with individual employees being exemplars of customer service. They enforced a program called "Customer Delight" that entailed, essentially, worshipfully fawning over customers. The Fresh Market does this so they can create a façade of being a highfalutin place to shop. A place where customers can have their asses kissed from entrance to checkout. That's as much a part of the job description, as it is for the Coldstone kids to sing for tips.
Some customers treated the FM employees better than the average service worker, because they perceived Fresh Market as being really upscale. Others decided that since they were important enough to shop at a place like Fresh Market, that they were entitled to berate the employees with withering venom.
So Fresh Market's customer service policy created that Amazing Experience that you had with the samples, but different stores have different policies. And why should someone work harder if their job doesn't require it -- for no benefit, i no hope of advancement, and knowing full well that their customers and managers are likely to treat them abusively?
(Also, the "Fresh" moniker is a complete, shameless fabrication. Sure hope you didn't buy into it. )
posted by Coatlicue at 1:54 PM on June 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
(Here's a real-life Fresh Market scenario: Imagine you are a middle-aged woman who is never entitled to another raise, ever again. You are paid terribly, despite that you have spent over a decade conscientiously working your ass off for Fresh Market. Your husband has a cerebral event that completely disables him, and can no longer work. You can now barely take care of yourself and your husband. You aren't qualified to do much else. How much of your effort do you think you owe the FM at this point?)
Offering samples was a part of our job. It had nothing to do with individual employees being exemplars of customer service. They enforced a program called "Customer Delight" that entailed, essentially, worshipfully fawning over customers. The Fresh Market does this so they can create a façade of being a highfalutin place to shop. A place where customers can have their asses kissed from entrance to checkout. That's as much a part of the job description, as it is for the Coldstone kids to sing for tips.
Some customers treated the FM employees better than the average service worker, because they perceived Fresh Market as being really upscale. Others decided that since they were important enough to shop at a place like Fresh Market, that they were entitled to berate the employees with withering venom.
So Fresh Market's customer service policy created that Amazing Experience that you had with the samples, but different stores have different policies. And why should someone work harder if their job doesn't require it -- for no benefit, i no hope of advancement, and knowing full well that their customers and managers are likely to treat them abusively?
(Also, the "Fresh" moniker is a complete, shameless fabrication. Sure hope you didn't buy into it. )
posted by Coatlicue at 1:54 PM on June 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
There's a lot of excuse making here.
People in positions who are lower paid tend to have other challenges besides the challenges of their jobs - like how to keep their job in this economy
These challenges are hardly contradictory, at most workplaces they are in alignment.
The jobs at that level are more dead-end now and compensate less in inflation-adjusted dollars. ... Add to that that the cost of major improvements to a working person's life - home ownership, autos, health insurance, college tuition - were in real dollars a lot more affordable 20-30 years ago than they are now
That's two ways of saying the same thing and furthermore the declining purchasing power of one's income is a trend that affects the vast majority of the U.S. workforce.
-----
If you refuse to consider incompetence a function of class you won't search for a reason to excuse it on those grounds. You'll find plenty of incompetence among the well paid as well. Probably the best way to reduce your exposure is through looking to do business with those who have strong incentives to perform - and in many jobs (e.g. bus driver, trash pickup, bureaucrat) there is little in the way of external incentives for performance. When excellence is, on occasion, found in those workers it is almost entirely due to the individual's character.
posted by BigSky at 1:55 PM on June 28, 2010
People in positions who are lower paid tend to have other challenges besides the challenges of their jobs - like how to keep their job in this economy
These challenges are hardly contradictory, at most workplaces they are in alignment.
The jobs at that level are more dead-end now and compensate less in inflation-adjusted dollars. ... Add to that that the cost of major improvements to a working person's life - home ownership, autos, health insurance, college tuition - were in real dollars a lot more affordable 20-30 years ago than they are now
That's two ways of saying the same thing and furthermore the declining purchasing power of one's income is a trend that affects the vast majority of the U.S. workforce.
-----
If you refuse to consider incompetence a function of class you won't search for a reason to excuse it on those grounds. You'll find plenty of incompetence among the well paid as well. Probably the best way to reduce your exposure is through looking to do business with those who have strong incentives to perform - and in many jobs (e.g. bus driver, trash pickup, bureaucrat) there is little in the way of external incentives for performance. When excellence is, on occasion, found in those workers it is almost entirely due to the individual's character.
posted by BigSky at 1:55 PM on June 28, 2010
just general bad service from people who seemed miserable & zombie like..
If the only thing bad about the service was that they didn't seem happy and chipper to be serving you, then that's really not bad service, and that's why you're kinda coming across as a douchebag. The fact that we're in a recession does NOT mean people are going to just "be happy they have a job." It means people are doing crappier jobs for less money and that doesn't make people happy. It has the opposite effect. Why you cannot understand that is beyond me. Is it your fault they're not happy? No. But is it reasonable to expect them to be? NO. Mind your own business! As long as you got your cigarettes and iced tea, you have nothing to complain about! They did their job, which is to ring up your purchase, not to brighten your day.
posted by cottonswab at 1:58 PM on June 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
If the only thing bad about the service was that they didn't seem happy and chipper to be serving you, then that's really not bad service, and that's why you're kinda coming across as a douchebag. The fact that we're in a recession does NOT mean people are going to just "be happy they have a job." It means people are doing crappier jobs for less money and that doesn't make people happy. It has the opposite effect. Why you cannot understand that is beyond me. Is it your fault they're not happy? No. But is it reasonable to expect them to be? NO. Mind your own business! As long as you got your cigarettes and iced tea, you have nothing to complain about! They did their job, which is to ring up your purchase, not to brighten your day.
posted by cottonswab at 1:58 PM on June 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
BigSky, I was responding specifically to the poster's comment that "If you honestly believe that everyone who doesn't have a job that challenges them, pays them well, and has opportunity for advancement has an open door to do a shitty job then we are in a really bad way as a country." So I meant that yes, those jobs may not be challenging in the positive sense of the word (as in, my job challenges me to do better, think harder etc), but they are challenging in other ways - lots of competition and little reward.
More generally, I was questioning his assumption that being in such a situation is used by such people to justify ("have an open door to") doing a shitty job - never mind that his definition of shitty job, even 70 comments in, is still undefined. Anyway the poster seems much more invested in justifying his crappy question and preferring those who agreed with his already formed opinions about the people he interacted with, as opposed to reading the books and resources linked or trying to look at this from any other perspective. So I'm outta here.
posted by mondaygreens at 2:30 PM on June 28, 2010
More generally, I was questioning his assumption that being in such a situation is used by such people to justify ("have an open door to") doing a shitty job - never mind that his definition of shitty job, even 70 comments in, is still undefined. Anyway the poster seems much more invested in justifying his crappy question and preferring those who agreed with his already formed opinions about the people he interacted with, as opposed to reading the books and resources linked or trying to look at this from any other perspective. So I'm outta here.
posted by mondaygreens at 2:30 PM on June 28, 2010
Remember the movie Groundhog Day? And how Bill Murray's character hit his nadir and hated everything and everyone around him? And then he sort of saw the light: It was just more fun to be positive. It just IS.
Hold everyone else to the same high standards to which you hold yourself. And then drop those standards for everyone else and keep yours high. Not fair, isn't it? Deal with it. And then drop your standards for others a few notches lower. Cut the snark. Stop the self-pity. Don't hoard good energy, and don't expect others to replenish your good energy for you. Give good energy away. Every day. And mean it.
I know the Groundhog Day analogy isn't really right but I started thinking about it when I read this thread. Rather than looking ahead to a future of increasingly dismal and frustrating personal interactions where you're doomed to struggle for the "service" to which you feel entitled, just refuse to participate in the death spiral. Why would you want to see the world like that? That's how douches go through life. You have a choice. Don't be a douche.
posted by woot at 2:36 PM on June 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
Hold everyone else to the same high standards to which you hold yourself. And then drop those standards for everyone else and keep yours high. Not fair, isn't it? Deal with it. And then drop your standards for others a few notches lower. Cut the snark. Stop the self-pity. Don't hoard good energy, and don't expect others to replenish your good energy for you. Give good energy away. Every day. And mean it.
I know the Groundhog Day analogy isn't really right but I started thinking about it when I read this thread. Rather than looking ahead to a future of increasingly dismal and frustrating personal interactions where you're doomed to struggle for the "service" to which you feel entitled, just refuse to participate in the death spiral. Why would you want to see the world like that? That's how douches go through life. You have a choice. Don't be a douche.
posted by woot at 2:36 PM on June 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
If you honestly believe that everyone who doesn't have a job that challenges them, pays them well, and has opportunity for advancement has an open door to do a shitty job then we are in a really bad way as a country.
I think you're missing KathrynT's point. She was trying to call your attention to the systemic dimensions of the individual behavior you observed. She was pointing out a few of the structural and environmental factors that influence employees' behavior by giving examples from her tech support job. Understanding these factors and how they operate helps you to locate the source of these problems in social and economic systems, rather than solely blaming the individuals themselves for incompetence. (For the record, I think the interaction among systemic factors and individual behavior is more complex and nuanced - in other words, we can't just blame the system and let individuals off the hook entirely - but I'll leave the theory aside for the sake of making a point).
If employees are working in an environment where they are rewarded for behavior that doesn't lend itself to good customer service (such as keeping call times down instead of, oh, actually solving customers' problems), then the employees have very little room for things like what you are calling "pride in their work" because of the incentive structure in which they are working.
These systemic dimensions of individual behavior in the workplace are often completely invisible to customers. If you learn more about them, perhaps you'll feel less burdened by the feeling that "everyone is incompetent." (If you do this, and you're anything like me, you'll probably start to feel more frustrated with the system, and less frustrated with the individuals who are caught within it. But that's another AskMe question, I suppose.)
posted by velvet winter at 2:40 PM on June 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
I think you're missing KathrynT's point. She was trying to call your attention to the systemic dimensions of the individual behavior you observed. She was pointing out a few of the structural and environmental factors that influence employees' behavior by giving examples from her tech support job. Understanding these factors and how they operate helps you to locate the source of these problems in social and economic systems, rather than solely blaming the individuals themselves for incompetence. (For the record, I think the interaction among systemic factors and individual behavior is more complex and nuanced - in other words, we can't just blame the system and let individuals off the hook entirely - but I'll leave the theory aside for the sake of making a point).
If employees are working in an environment where they are rewarded for behavior that doesn't lend itself to good customer service (such as keeping call times down instead of, oh, actually solving customers' problems), then the employees have very little room for things like what you are calling "pride in their work" because of the incentive structure in which they are working.
These systemic dimensions of individual behavior in the workplace are often completely invisible to customers. If you learn more about them, perhaps you'll feel less burdened by the feeling that "everyone is incompetent." (If you do this, and you're anything like me, you'll probably start to feel more frustrated with the system, and less frustrated with the individuals who are caught within it. But that's another AskMe question, I suppose.)
posted by velvet winter at 2:40 PM on June 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
Hellafiles, please do say what specific things you consider bad service. It's kind of funny that you are getting what you probably consider bad service right here, right now on Metafilter - but from a lot of our perspectives the problem is instead that you're articulating yourself in a vague, roundabout complainy way, making it hard to help you. Maybe you have the same problem with other places of bad service?
Bad service for one person can mean perfect service for another.
For instance, where I'm from, it is not necessary for people to smile or give you more than a mumbled greeting. Cashiers at the supermarket till wouldn't dream of asking whether you found everything, or, God forbid, how you are today. Waiters sometimes stare over your head as you order order or tell you they don't give a damn, sit wherever you like, if you ask them where you can sit. Shop ladies ignore you until you call for them, and likely as not will shrug if they don't have what you're looking for. But just as you want to roll your eyers and leave they'll snap at you to "hang on a sec" and then come back with something else you might not have thought of but that fits you perfectly. They think. They make an effort. And the waiters - they're fast and nearly always right, and ace at mental arithmetics.
And that's what's important for most people.
Conversely, my few experiences with customer service in the US and the UK have been mindboggling to utterly frustrating. Even the good stuff is freaky. I finally took to hiding behind the clothes racks to stop service people from making conversation with me. But when it's bad it's oh so terrible. Specifically, they all seem to be so damned cheerful while not making any type of effort. "Sorry ma'am! Can't help you with that!" sang the guy at the end of the phone line after I missed my flight because of his bus company. Then he waited politely for me to stop asphyxating and hang up.
I'll take brusque and mumbly any time.
posted by Omnomnom at 2:47 PM on June 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
Bad service for one person can mean perfect service for another.
For instance, where I'm from, it is not necessary for people to smile or give you more than a mumbled greeting. Cashiers at the supermarket till wouldn't dream of asking whether you found everything, or, God forbid, how you are today. Waiters sometimes stare over your head as you order order or tell you they don't give a damn, sit wherever you like, if you ask them where you can sit. Shop ladies ignore you until you call for them, and likely as not will shrug if they don't have what you're looking for. But just as you want to roll your eyers and leave they'll snap at you to "hang on a sec" and then come back with something else you might not have thought of but that fits you perfectly. They think. They make an effort. And the waiters - they're fast and nearly always right, and ace at mental arithmetics.
And that's what's important for most people.
Conversely, my few experiences with customer service in the US and the UK have been mindboggling to utterly frustrating. Even the good stuff is freaky. I finally took to hiding behind the clothes racks to stop service people from making conversation with me. But when it's bad it's oh so terrible. Specifically, they all seem to be so damned cheerful while not making any type of effort. "Sorry ma'am! Can't help you with that!" sang the guy at the end of the phone line after I missed my flight because of his bus company. Then he waited politely for me to stop asphyxating and hang up.
I'll take brusque and mumbly any time.
posted by Omnomnom at 2:47 PM on June 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
If you honestly believe that everyone who doesn't have a job that challenges them, pays them well, and has opportunity for advancement has an open door to do a shitty job then we are in a really bad way as a country.
I have no idea why you would get that impression from my comment.
In my case, I provided shitty customer service in my job for two reasons: 1, I was actively disincented from providing excellent customer service, and 2, that was utterly demoralizing. Maybe the dude in Lowe's didn't give you the kind of service you were looking for because he's explicitly paid not to. My job as a first tier tech wasn't to solve people's problems; it was to get them off the phone. So that's what I did. I hated it, but that was the job. Why would I provide excellent customer service if doing so directly threatened my paycheck and my job?
posted by KathrynT at 3:01 PM on June 28, 2010
I have no idea why you would get that impression from my comment.
In my case, I provided shitty customer service in my job for two reasons: 1, I was actively disincented from providing excellent customer service, and 2, that was utterly demoralizing. Maybe the dude in Lowe's didn't give you the kind of service you were looking for because he's explicitly paid not to. My job as a first tier tech wasn't to solve people's problems; it was to get them off the phone. So that's what I did. I hated it, but that was the job. Why would I provide excellent customer service if doing so directly threatened my paycheck and my job?
posted by KathrynT at 3:01 PM on June 28, 2010
Odd. I've practically never run into the sorts of workers at Lowes, etc. Of course, I don't see them as menial laborers and, thus, don't expect them to treat my every whim as papal writ. I treat them like I want to be treated and, in return, I tend to get very good service.
Of course, this is in the real, face-to-face world. Phone-based services are a whole other level of hell, for the most part. Which, I think, bodes poorly for our world.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:24 PM on June 28, 2010
Of course, this is in the real, face-to-face world. Phone-based services are a whole other level of hell, for the most part. Which, I think, bodes poorly for our world.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:24 PM on June 28, 2010
That's two ways of saying the same thing
No, it's two different but related things. Declining real wages are one issue; costs rising out of proportion with the rest of the economy (housing and health in particular) are another issue. Together they create more difficulty than either would as a single factor.
furthermore the declining purchasing power of one's income is a trend that affects the vast majority of the U.S. workforce.
You're absolutely right, but many people still fall above the waterline of being able to afford health insurance, a home, a car, and some savings on their salaries. That's no longer true for the working class. If I have the choice between experiencing declining purchasing power for $150K a year or declining purchasing power for $18K a year, I know which job I'm going to try harder for.
posted by Miko at 3:58 PM on June 28, 2010
No, it's two different but related things. Declining real wages are one issue; costs rising out of proportion with the rest of the economy (housing and health in particular) are another issue. Together they create more difficulty than either would as a single factor.
furthermore the declining purchasing power of one's income is a trend that affects the vast majority of the U.S. workforce.
You're absolutely right, but many people still fall above the waterline of being able to afford health insurance, a home, a car, and some savings on their salaries. That's no longer true for the working class. If I have the choice between experiencing declining purchasing power for $150K a year or declining purchasing power for $18K a year, I know which job I'm going to try harder for.
posted by Miko at 3:58 PM on June 28, 2010
Best answer: Also, the continued focus on issues of character and compensation is obscuring one of the major points I was trying to make: that of management. Poor service is curable through good management. A business that has consistently poor service also has consistently poor management. If poor service is the norm, that means it's tolerated, that it's not seriously addressed, and that there are no real consequences. The environment is such that someone who performs badly can remain in their position.
That's why I recommend dealing with managers if you continue to encounter this. Whether the manager is also the owner or just a shift supervisor, they are responsible for what's happening on their watch. Oftentimes managers in shitty workplaces have just as many issues as employees do. If they are not motivated by working conditions and high satisfaction that create the desire to do a good job, they won't be a part of motivating anyone else to do a good job either. Move up a rung and keep seeking the place where the buck stops.
I honestly feel that the frequency of bad service is not a drop in intrinsic motivation or only a consequence of economic problems - it's a direct result of management with very low standards. IN places where owners/managers care about the service, the service is good or it's gone.
posted by Miko at 4:03 PM on June 28, 2010
That's why I recommend dealing with managers if you continue to encounter this. Whether the manager is also the owner or just a shift supervisor, they are responsible for what's happening on their watch. Oftentimes managers in shitty workplaces have just as many issues as employees do. If they are not motivated by working conditions and high satisfaction that create the desire to do a good job, they won't be a part of motivating anyone else to do a good job either. Move up a rung and keep seeking the place where the buck stops.
I honestly feel that the frequency of bad service is not a drop in intrinsic motivation or only a consequence of economic problems - it's a direct result of management with very low standards. IN places where owners/managers care about the service, the service is good or it's gone.
posted by Miko at 4:03 PM on June 28, 2010
Response by poster: Sorry I couldn't post this earlier, but didn't have time to type as much as I needed to.. Here's what I experienced:
Gas Station:
Stopped in to grab a package of cigarettes and something to drink. When I entered the store there was some type of alarm blaring and the clerk was on her cell phone. I grabbed my beverage and headed towards the cash register. When I reached the register the clerk (still on cell phone) walked right past me and into the office. I patiently waited for about 2 minutes (with strange alarm going off) until a second customer entered the store and took their place in line behind me. At this point the clerk emerged from the office laughing hysterically into her cell phone and slowly shuffled by both of us yet again to retrieve a yellow "wet floor" cone on the other side of the lobby. On her way back the lady behind me asked the clerk if she could "please activate the gas pump". The clerk slowly walked to behind the register and hit a button which stopped the beeping alarm. Then I asked if I could please have a pack of Camel Lights. The clerk (still on the phone) slowly walked to the rack and returned with a pack of Marlboro Lights. I caught her before she reached the register and said "I'm sorry, I wanted Camel Lights". She then proceeded to tell me that they were "out of them" when I could clearly see them on the shelf. When I mentioned this she said "Oh yeah, okay" and grabbed them. As she starts to ring me up (still on the phone talking about a cookout) I grabbed my debit card to slide. Then she informs me that "Sorry the credit card machine is down. I need to put a sign up". Since I had already taken a few swigs of my drink I had to scrounge through the console in my car for the $1.29 to pay for the drink in coins.
Lowes:
I'm trying to pretty up our backyard and needed some replacement bulbs for some landscape lighting we have around the perimeter of our back yard. I took one of the bulbs with me to make sure I bought the right kind. When I was finally able to find an associate I asked if he could please help me find the proper bulbs. He took a look at the bulb I brought and said "you'll have to order these from the manufacturer". I was pretty confident that these bulbs weren't that uncommon so I asked if he minded if we checked none the less. He begrudgingly hoisted himself off his seat and led me across the store to the aisle that sold the actual lights themselves and said "There you go, but I told you we don't have them." I had a feeling this wasn't the right place to be looking, but I didn't want to be rude, so I said thanks and that I was just going to look around anyway. I finally made my way back the light bulb aisle to look one last time and behold! I see that all the really small light bulbs are kept in a drawer (which was being blocked by a huge rolling ladder). I found what I needed and left.
McAlister's Deli:
All this running around was making me hungry, so I wanted to grab a sandwich on my way home. I was thrilled to see there weren't many cars in the McAlister's parking lot becuase they have a Muffuletta sandwich I really like. They weren't busy and I went straight to the counter to place my order. "I'd like 1/2 a Muffuletta sandwich, and a cup of chili. To go please". The clerk even repeated my order, and I paid. After about 6 minutes my food arrived packaged and ready to go. I grabbed it and left. When I got home to tear into my sandwich I immediately noticed there was no cup of chili in the bag, there was a potato salad. No big deal I thought, I like the potato salad but I paid for chili. Then open up the sandwich container to find only 1/4 of a Muffuletta. I didnt want to drive the 20+ minutes back to the store so I just ate everything.
So as I mentioned, these things aren't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of life. But they certainly add up, and can sometimes make me question if people are really "with it" or care. In these examples all 3 people didn't seem like they were even here. These types of things are constantly happening to me, and I think as a result I'm sensitive to making sure I'm doing a good in my job in hopes it will all come back to me.
Its lousy to feel like you constantly need to check every food order or reservation or make sure they put all the items you bought at the grocery store in the bags etc. Sometimes I just wish people would try a little harder.
Sorry if I offended anyone. It wasn't my intention.
posted by Hellafiles at 4:26 PM on June 28, 2010
Gas Station:
Stopped in to grab a package of cigarettes and something to drink. When I entered the store there was some type of alarm blaring and the clerk was on her cell phone. I grabbed my beverage and headed towards the cash register. When I reached the register the clerk (still on cell phone) walked right past me and into the office. I patiently waited for about 2 minutes (with strange alarm going off) until a second customer entered the store and took their place in line behind me. At this point the clerk emerged from the office laughing hysterically into her cell phone and slowly shuffled by both of us yet again to retrieve a yellow "wet floor" cone on the other side of the lobby. On her way back the lady behind me asked the clerk if she could "please activate the gas pump". The clerk slowly walked to behind the register and hit a button which stopped the beeping alarm. Then I asked if I could please have a pack of Camel Lights. The clerk (still on the phone) slowly walked to the rack and returned with a pack of Marlboro Lights. I caught her before she reached the register and said "I'm sorry, I wanted Camel Lights". She then proceeded to tell me that they were "out of them" when I could clearly see them on the shelf. When I mentioned this she said "Oh yeah, okay" and grabbed them. As she starts to ring me up (still on the phone talking about a cookout) I grabbed my debit card to slide. Then she informs me that "Sorry the credit card machine is down. I need to put a sign up". Since I had already taken a few swigs of my drink I had to scrounge through the console in my car for the $1.29 to pay for the drink in coins.
Lowes:
I'm trying to pretty up our backyard and needed some replacement bulbs for some landscape lighting we have around the perimeter of our back yard. I took one of the bulbs with me to make sure I bought the right kind. When I was finally able to find an associate I asked if he could please help me find the proper bulbs. He took a look at the bulb I brought and said "you'll have to order these from the manufacturer". I was pretty confident that these bulbs weren't that uncommon so I asked if he minded if we checked none the less. He begrudgingly hoisted himself off his seat and led me across the store to the aisle that sold the actual lights themselves and said "There you go, but I told you we don't have them." I had a feeling this wasn't the right place to be looking, but I didn't want to be rude, so I said thanks and that I was just going to look around anyway. I finally made my way back the light bulb aisle to look one last time and behold! I see that all the really small light bulbs are kept in a drawer (which was being blocked by a huge rolling ladder). I found what I needed and left.
McAlister's Deli:
All this running around was making me hungry, so I wanted to grab a sandwich on my way home. I was thrilled to see there weren't many cars in the McAlister's parking lot becuase they have a Muffuletta sandwich I really like. They weren't busy and I went straight to the counter to place my order. "I'd like 1/2 a Muffuletta sandwich, and a cup of chili. To go please". The clerk even repeated my order, and I paid. After about 6 minutes my food arrived packaged and ready to go. I grabbed it and left. When I got home to tear into my sandwich I immediately noticed there was no cup of chili in the bag, there was a potato salad. No big deal I thought, I like the potato salad but I paid for chili. Then open up the sandwich container to find only 1/4 of a Muffuletta. I didnt want to drive the 20+ minutes back to the store so I just ate everything.
So as I mentioned, these things aren't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of life. But they certainly add up, and can sometimes make me question if people are really "with it" or care. In these examples all 3 people didn't seem like they were even here. These types of things are constantly happening to me, and I think as a result I'm sensitive to making sure I'm doing a good in my job in hopes it will all come back to me.
Its lousy to feel like you constantly need to check every food order or reservation or make sure they put all the items you bought at the grocery store in the bags etc. Sometimes I just wish people would try a little harder.
Sorry if I offended anyone. It wasn't my intention.
posted by Hellafiles at 4:26 PM on June 28, 2010
OK, so. With the gas station, you walked into a situation in a crisis -- there was an alarm going off, which is never good. She dealt with it suboptimally, and was on the phone which is typically a no-no. But at the end of the day, you got your drink, and you'd have gotten your smokes too if you could have paid for them. It sounds like she did the bare minimum of what was required, but, well, she was frankly probably paid the bare minimum of what the state allows. "Minimum" cuts both ways.
The Lowe's experience is a pretty clear example of an employee who doesn't particularly care, but I think it's telling that you mention "when I can finally find an associate." The place is understaffed. If it's understaffed, the associates are overworked. Overworked people tend not to care as much about going any additional extra miles. See Miko's point about management. Quit going to Lowe's and find a hardware store that maintains staffing levels that don't rely on self-service.
The sandwich thing, well, the worker was probably high. This is the sort of "bad service" I've encountered a handful of times, and it's deeply frustrating watching someone struggle to comprehend what you mean by "a large chocolate shake and a small vanilla malted" and try to serve you two chocolate chip cookies and a side of onion rings instead. That's a case where you speak to the manager; either it was an isolated screwup and they'll be glad to set it right, or there's an endemic problem there that needs to be fixed.
Is this among the most generous of possible readings? Yeah, probably. But I'll observe that I get consistently excellent service nearly everywhere I go, and I suspect my willingness to be generous and understanding with servicepeople probably plays into that.
posted by KathrynT at 5:00 PM on June 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
The Lowe's experience is a pretty clear example of an employee who doesn't particularly care, but I think it's telling that you mention "when I can finally find an associate." The place is understaffed. If it's understaffed, the associates are overworked. Overworked people tend not to care as much about going any additional extra miles. See Miko's point about management. Quit going to Lowe's and find a hardware store that maintains staffing levels that don't rely on self-service.
The sandwich thing, well, the worker was probably high. This is the sort of "bad service" I've encountered a handful of times, and it's deeply frustrating watching someone struggle to comprehend what you mean by "a large chocolate shake and a small vanilla malted" and try to serve you two chocolate chip cookies and a side of onion rings instead. That's a case where you speak to the manager; either it was an isolated screwup and they'll be glad to set it right, or there's an endemic problem there that needs to be fixed.
Is this among the most generous of possible readings? Yeah, probably. But I'll observe that I get consistently excellent service nearly everywhere I go, and I suspect my willingness to be generous and understanding with servicepeople probably plays into that.
posted by KathrynT at 5:00 PM on June 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
To followup on my last point -- you asked for philosophies to help you deal with these situations. I got one for you: "Everyone is the hero of their own story." When you run into someone acting like this, take a deep breath, settle in on your heels, and try to imagine the story that this person, THIS person, is the hero of. It likely won't make the service any better, but it is likely to result in you feeling less put-off.
posted by KathrynT at 5:09 PM on June 28, 2010
posted by KathrynT at 5:09 PM on June 28, 2010
The people in the jobs you mentioned deal with the public all day long. Thre are those who are routinely nasty to service people for no other reason than they can get away with it.
I used to work in the service industry (I'd like to clear up the idea that waitresses don't make much money. That isn't always really the case - people become trapped into waiting tables/bartending usually because the money is good, so they never get on with their lives, finish school, etc.). When I waitressed/bartended I encountered people were really great, genuinely nice, to people who were merely a pain-in-the ass, to hounding/harrassment, to being shoved, grabbed, yelled at, and, once, vomited on. My MO was to treat everyone equally well, no matter what. But it was nothing more than a well honed acting job (even when the customer was really nice, I was still "acting" to buffer against some suprise insanity /in order to remain consistant/sane). The number of people that were routinely nasty was probably 25% or less. When things went sour, I knew it wasn't personal, but if you encounter a few angry/insane people in a row, it creates the need to "act" happy/nice rather than "be" happy/nice as a coping mechanism. I don't think anyone ever got so much as attitude from me when I worked in service jobs, but it was very hard at times to pull off.
I have no idea if you've ever worked in a service job. But if you haven't, it would be les than a week and you would understand. The people you encountered are simply not "on" or acting, they are being real. It's not professional, necessarily, and it's not ideal, but that's all it is. What you wanted was the fake pleasant thing. I just have to wonder why?
posted by marimeko at 7:35 PM on June 28, 2010
I used to work in the service industry (I'd like to clear up the idea that waitresses don't make much money. That isn't always really the case - people become trapped into waiting tables/bartending usually because the money is good, so they never get on with their lives, finish school, etc.). When I waitressed/bartended I encountered people were really great, genuinely nice, to people who were merely a pain-in-the ass, to hounding/harrassment, to being shoved, grabbed, yelled at, and, once, vomited on. My MO was to treat everyone equally well, no matter what. But it was nothing more than a well honed acting job (even when the customer was really nice, I was still "acting" to buffer against some suprise insanity /in order to remain consistant/sane). The number of people that were routinely nasty was probably 25% or less. When things went sour, I knew it wasn't personal, but if you encounter a few angry/insane people in a row, it creates the need to "act" happy/nice rather than "be" happy/nice as a coping mechanism. I don't think anyone ever got so much as attitude from me when I worked in service jobs, but it was very hard at times to pull off.
I have no idea if you've ever worked in a service job. But if you haven't, it would be les than a week and you would understand. The people you encountered are simply not "on" or acting, they are being real. It's not professional, necessarily, and it's not ideal, but that's all it is. What you wanted was the fake pleasant thing. I just have to wonder why?
posted by marimeko at 7:35 PM on June 28, 2010
Yeah, I've had all the kinds of experiences you described. Sometimes it gets pretty annoying. I get annoyed when I'm checking out at the grocery store, and the lady behind the counter doesn't even look at me once, preferring to pay attention to the gossipy conversation she's having with her friend who's standing behind her. I always say "thank you" and sometimes get no acknowledgment at all, not even a glance. But really you just have to not think about it, and let it slide off your back when you leave. What happens in the store stays in the store.
I think the majority of people that I deal with in these positions do a decent job. You know any negativity or negligence coming from them probably isn't personal, and realistically these are people you'll probably never have to deal with outside the store. Whatever you do, don't be nasty back to them, because that will only make their attitude worse.
From a human resources standpoint, it can be really hard to find competent people to do a job when you're getting into minimum wage-level stuff. Not only do they want someone who is simply capable of doing the job, but frankly they want someone who they suspect will stick around for a while. Think about it. You may work in a sales/service position and think their job isn't all that different, but going by the past questions you posted, it sounds like your job is a bit more high-level than gas station attendant or Lowe's sales associate.
Simply showing up on time, every day, and doing your job on even the most bare-bones level are impressive qualities in some lines of work. It takes less effort for the management to keep lackluster employees on-board than to bother trying to find someone any better to have to train all over again.
In terms of how you can better deal with it, just keep all that stuff in mind. Be grateful you're living the life you're living and not the lives of others.
posted by wondermouse at 8:49 PM on June 28, 2010
I think the majority of people that I deal with in these positions do a decent job. You know any negativity or negligence coming from them probably isn't personal, and realistically these are people you'll probably never have to deal with outside the store. Whatever you do, don't be nasty back to them, because that will only make their attitude worse.
From a human resources standpoint, it can be really hard to find competent people to do a job when you're getting into minimum wage-level stuff. Not only do they want someone who is simply capable of doing the job, but frankly they want someone who they suspect will stick around for a while. Think about it. You may work in a sales/service position and think their job isn't all that different, but going by the past questions you posted, it sounds like your job is a bit more high-level than gas station attendant or Lowe's sales associate.
Simply showing up on time, every day, and doing your job on even the most bare-bones level are impressive qualities in some lines of work. It takes less effort for the management to keep lackluster employees on-board than to bother trying to find someone any better to have to train all over again.
In terms of how you can better deal with it, just keep all that stuff in mind. Be grateful you're living the life you're living and not the lives of others.
posted by wondermouse at 8:49 PM on June 28, 2010
I've had customer service jobs on-and-off since I was 16. I always tried my best to be a good employee, and I don't think I'm a total idiot. But I guarantee you that many people who interacted with me in a customer service capacity walked away thinking I was an incompetent twit.
The reasons are endless: I could have been having a bad day. Or maybe I was the only one on staff and I was overwhelmed. Maybe I just made an honest mistake, but it was a big important mistake or maybe the customer was cranky and looking for a reason to ding me. Or maybe it really wasn't my fault - it was a structural issue or some other person's error - but because I was actually interacting with the customer I had to take one for the team.
Waiting tables was the worst, because that was where I tried the hardest. Believe me, the restaurant was paying me two bucks an hour to cover taxes - any money I made was from tips. But what you quickly realize as a server is that the amount of effort you put in is not really proportional to the tips you get. There's a saying we had which I can't remember even though I just spent twenty minutes googling around and it's driving me crazy, but it was to the effect that the more demanding a customer, the lower the tip (and it rhymed). I would greet my tables all bright-eyed and happy and I would be nice and accommodating and run my little legs off, but inevitably one of three things would happen:
1) I would make a mistake, and I would get stiffed by a huffy customer.
2) Someone else (e.g. a cook) would make a mistake, and I would get stiffed by a huffy customer.
3) I would do a GREAT JOB and I would get stiffed by a seemingly HAPPY customer.
All of the above are so demoralizing. So when a customer comes in all like "PROVE TO ME YOU ARE NOT AN IDIOT and perhaps I will toss you some pennies," you can either say, "OK! I will work extra-hard to earn your approval" and then mess up because you're so nervous; or you can say, "Screw you buddy, I'd rather cut my losses," in which case the customer leaves all smug that his opinion of service employees has been reaffirmed. (I'll let Rizzo the Rat sum up my feelings about serving.)
Anyway, looking at your examples from the other side of the counter: At Lowe's, the problem may not have been with the employee per se, aside from his lack of enthusiasm. He was obviously incorrect about the lightbulb, but that seems like it might just as easily be a systemic thing - disorganization, poor training, and so on. I do think you should have corrected him. Instead, he remains misinformed. (From experience, I hated it when customers would act like everything was fine and then internally seethe, or write a passive-aggressive note on a napkin, or, worst of all!, go straight to my manager without giving me a chance to explain myself.)
At the deli, unless the clerk was making the sandwiches himself, the mistake could easily have been on the part of the kitchen. Did you check your receipt? If it indeed said "chili and 1/2 sandwich," then, at most places, that's exactly what the clerk told the kitchen to make. (Also, could you have grabbed the wrong order? That honestly seems like the simplest explanation.)
I am at a loss for words about the gas station girl. But I figure you can see her total shamelessness in either of two ways: infuriating, or hilarious. In fact, I think that might be the case for most similar situations.
posted by granted at 12:22 AM on June 29, 2010 [3 favorites]
The reasons are endless: I could have been having a bad day. Or maybe I was the only one on staff and I was overwhelmed. Maybe I just made an honest mistake, but it was a big important mistake or maybe the customer was cranky and looking for a reason to ding me. Or maybe it really wasn't my fault - it was a structural issue or some other person's error - but because I was actually interacting with the customer I had to take one for the team.
Waiting tables was the worst, because that was where I tried the hardest. Believe me, the restaurant was paying me two bucks an hour to cover taxes - any money I made was from tips. But what you quickly realize as a server is that the amount of effort you put in is not really proportional to the tips you get. There's a saying we had which I can't remember even though I just spent twenty minutes googling around and it's driving me crazy, but it was to the effect that the more demanding a customer, the lower the tip (and it rhymed). I would greet my tables all bright-eyed and happy and I would be nice and accommodating and run my little legs off, but inevitably one of three things would happen:
1) I would make a mistake, and I would get stiffed by a huffy customer.
2) Someone else (e.g. a cook) would make a mistake, and I would get stiffed by a huffy customer.
3) I would do a GREAT JOB and I would get stiffed by a seemingly HAPPY customer.
All of the above are so demoralizing. So when a customer comes in all like "PROVE TO ME YOU ARE NOT AN IDIOT and perhaps I will toss you some pennies," you can either say, "OK! I will work extra-hard to earn your approval" and then mess up because you're so nervous; or you can say, "Screw you buddy, I'd rather cut my losses," in which case the customer leaves all smug that his opinion of service employees has been reaffirmed. (I'll let Rizzo the Rat sum up my feelings about serving.)
Anyway, looking at your examples from the other side of the counter: At Lowe's, the problem may not have been with the employee per se, aside from his lack of enthusiasm. He was obviously incorrect about the lightbulb, but that seems like it might just as easily be a systemic thing - disorganization, poor training, and so on. I do think you should have corrected him. Instead, he remains misinformed. (From experience, I hated it when customers would act like everything was fine and then internally seethe, or write a passive-aggressive note on a napkin, or, worst of all!, go straight to my manager without giving me a chance to explain myself.)
At the deli, unless the clerk was making the sandwiches himself, the mistake could easily have been on the part of the kitchen. Did you check your receipt? If it indeed said "chili and 1/2 sandwich," then, at most places, that's exactly what the clerk told the kitchen to make. (Also, could you have grabbed the wrong order? That honestly seems like the simplest explanation.)
I am at a loss for words about the gas station girl. But I figure you can see her total shamelessness in either of two ways: infuriating, or hilarious. In fact, I think that might be the case for most similar situations.
posted by granted at 12:22 AM on June 29, 2010 [3 favorites]
Plato said "Be kind, because everyone you meet is fighting a difficult battle".
When you meet someone and find that you're thinking "this person is an idiot", or "this person is miserable, and should be joyous about the very fact that they have a job, cleaning toilets", I suggest that you try and remember or conceive of a situation which would have made you act in that way (including the uncontrollable factors like upbringing, genotype, and so on).
Hopefully this will allow you to feel some empathy toward the person, and to judge them as you'd hope others judge you when you're not at your best. The less you know about someone's situation (and you really know almost nothing about most of the people you're describing) the more different hypotheses about it are concomitant with what you observe. Having no evidential reason to pick the curmudgeonly hypothesis over the charitable one, you should go with whichever one makes you feel and act better.
posted by larkery at 2:37 AM on June 29, 2010 [2 favorites]
When you meet someone and find that you're thinking "this person is an idiot", or "this person is miserable, and should be joyous about the very fact that they have a job, cleaning toilets", I suggest that you try and remember or conceive of a situation which would have made you act in that way (including the uncontrollable factors like upbringing, genotype, and so on).
Hopefully this will allow you to feel some empathy toward the person, and to judge them as you'd hope others judge you when you're not at your best. The less you know about someone's situation (and you really know almost nothing about most of the people you're describing) the more different hypotheses about it are concomitant with what you observe. Having no evidential reason to pick the curmudgeonly hypothesis over the charitable one, you should go with whichever one makes you feel and act better.
posted by larkery at 2:37 AM on June 29, 2010 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by astrochimp at 6:24 AM on June 28, 2010 [3 favorites]