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June 13, 2010 2:20 PM   Subscribe

What is this relationship even about?? What am I supposed to do?

My partner has had only casual sex partners and I am his first relationship. He mostly slept with women when he was drunk or on drugs. I read his diary once when we first started dating (don't get mad at me, we've already discussed this), and it contained a lot of awful things written about women. At the beginning of our relationship, he would talk about how he was unable to attract "hot" women. He seemed obviously insecure to me, but I fell in love with other parts of him. Although we got along intellectually, I still had constant issue with the way he treated and talked about women and the way he had treated sex. One thing that particularly grated on me was the fact that he had sex with a very teenaged girl when he was drunk. Another thing that annoyed me was that he had tried to move in with two women that he had been with previously.

Over winter break, he sent sexy Facebook messages to one of his friends (he had told me that he barely knew her). The flirtation was much closer to dirty-talking than it was to polite flirting, and the girl had previously told him that she wanted to tie him up and have his babies. We broke up for a few weeks, but got back together after he told me that it was a mistake. There was no physical contact, but he told her that they would meet for drinks and got her number. He tried to downplay the entire situation, which makes me even angrier. I feel even dumber for totally trusting him over break.

Much of our relationship has been good, and he has been getting better and trying much harder. I'm still not sure if I'm blinded by what we do have in common and the good moments that we share. What's the deal? What am I supposed to do? Am I just dumb and in love? Can people really change? Have I allowed myself to get played? Should I just grow up? He has improved since we've gotten back together. We have both just graduated college, and the time has come to make decisions. I'd like advice that is a little more than DTMFA.
posted by anonymous to Human Relations (36 answers total) 2 users marked this as a favorite

 
It's kind of hard to give you an opinion given that you only describe his faults and defects. What is it that you like about the guy? From your description he seems like a truly horrible person.
posted by Omon Ra at 2:26 PM on June 13, 2010 [1 favorite]


He sounds awful. There are nice men who genuinely like women out there, who won't cheat on you, and I think you should find one of them. He may or may not be able to change, but it shouldn't be your job to change him (or to wait and see if he changes).
posted by yarly at 2:30 PM on June 13, 2010


First, I want to say that I'm sorry you're in this situation, but it sounds to me like you're with someone you don't really respect very much, and who is probably not compatible with you long term. You have issues with the way he's treated women in the past, and the way he continues to talk about them. I think you also have issues with the way he treats you, even though that can be difficult to admit to yourself. Yes, people can change, but they have to want to. Have you talked to him about his attitudes towards women, and towards you? Does he want to change? My initial reaction is to say (sorry), DTMFA, but if you're not ready for that, at least start thinking about how you think you should be treated, and what you would say to a friend who was allowing herself to be treated this way.

Good luck to you.
posted by odayoday at 2:30 PM on June 13, 2010 [2 favorites]


You need to dump this guy, find a partner you can trust and that you won't feel compelled to snoop/spy on, and work on building healthier and more mature relationships. It sounds like you're in high school or maybe college, so I know finding a drama-free relationship at that stage of life is difficult, but it's never too early to try.
posted by ladybird at 2:31 PM on June 13, 2010 [2 favorites]


There is nothing more to say than DTMFA. I've no idea what else you want to hear.
posted by fire&wings at 2:31 PM on June 13, 2010 [2 favorites]


Your post contains the description of a very, very bad boyfriend. You could spend the next 1-3 years of your life trying to fix him. Is that what you really, really want to do?
posted by Sara Anne at 2:32 PM on June 13, 2010 [4 favorites]


If you don't want to hear DTMFA, I'll comply with that. Why not ask yourself, then, why the hell you are still with this guy?
posted by bolognius maximus at 2:35 PM on June 13, 2010 [3 favorites]


Getting better...how?
Trying harder...how?

People do change, but you've given no solid evidence that he's actually doing so or trying to do so. Without that it's hard to advise anything more than DTMFA. Like Sara Anne said, do you really want to spend the next couple of years trying to "fix" him, make him change, or wait patiently while he "tries to change" and works on "getting better"?
posted by pecanpies at 2:36 PM on June 13, 2010


He sounds like a flailing, uncontrolled child. You don't want DTMFA advice--okay.

Develop, implement, and enforce a set of boundaries prioritizing your needs and your self-respect. If he can be your partner while respecting those boundaries, keep him.

But he's not your partner right now.
posted by Phred182 at 2:39 PM on June 13, 2010 [4 favorites]


Ask yourself why you've so far been willing to invest yourself in such a problematic guy. Because, after all, these are huge and obvious problems and you're just averting your eyes from them. Why? You can certainly do better. Hell, being single is better than this. So, why?
posted by jon1270 at 2:39 PM on June 13, 2010 [2 favorites]


You know how he talks about other women? Sooner or later, he's going to talk that way about you. Doesn't matter how good the sex is, or how hopeful you feel during the good times, or how important you think it is that you have stuff in common.

"Having stuff in common" is a dime a dozen in relationships, anyway. Sit in an enclosed space with 20 strangers for long enough, and you'll find you have something in common with all of them. Doesn't mean they're all adequate dating material for you.

If you'd like to be treated well, find someone with a history of treating women well. If you'd like to be treated badly, proceed with what you're doing.
posted by scody at 2:46 PM on June 13, 2010 [18 favorites]


Unless you post more, relevant details, all you are going to get is DTMFA.

So, either suck it up and post more details... or DTMFA.
posted by TheBones at 2:47 PM on June 13, 2010


We have both just graduated college

Sorry, somehow I missed that bit. It doesn't change my advice though - he's behaving terribly for a person of any age.
posted by ladybird at 2:48 PM on June 13, 2010


My partner has had only casual sex partners and I am his first relationship. By "relationship" do you mean "First time he's had sex with only one person at a time"? I'm trying to define why you have a relationship.

"He mostly slept with women when he was drunk or on drugs." How do you know this? How did you get involved with him? Why did you get involved with someone who only had sex with women when he was drunk or on drugs?

I read his diary once when we first started dating (don't get mad at me, we've already discussed this), and it contained a lot of awful things written about women Why did you decide to read his diary? I'm going to assume it was because you didn't trust him. Why do you continue in this relationship? Why do you want to be with someone who doesn't respect women?

I fell in love with other parts of him. What parts are those? Because I'm not seeing anything up there that doesn't make him into a colossal douchebag.

Although we got along intellectually, I still had constant issue with the way he treated and talked about women and the way he had treated sex. And yet you continued to date him. Why? What are you getting out of this?

One thing that particularly grated on me was the fact that he had sex with a very teenaged girl when he was drunk.

Or at least when he said he was drunk. Again, how do you justify this? What are you getting out of this?

You are "dating" a serial cheater, a potential statutory rapist, someone who has emotional problems, hates women, and blames it all on substance abuse issues (oh, yeah, that). I wouldn't wish this partner on my worst enemy. It's not like you have a history with this man and he suddenly turned bad due to substance abuse. He was like this when you somehow got involved with him. You're starting out in life and you want to be burdened by this man - why? Just so you can say you're in a relationship and not feel like some kind of loser because you don't have a boyfriend? I do not mean to be cruel but I'm not seeing any other reason for this.
posted by micawber at 2:54 PM on June 13, 2010 [8 favorites]


I'd like advice that is a little more than DTMFA.

How about, "DTMFA, now." Is that enough?

Bottom line: You're describing a person that is very immature. Treat yourself better than this.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 2:54 PM on June 13, 2010 [3 favorites]


He is the platonic ideal of a sadistic sociopath.

I know because I was you in my early twenties. There was something very, very satisfying about being with a guy who was a complete and utter louse to other women, but told me he loved me and cared for me and wanted to be with me. Now, what he did to me in our relationship didn't feel like love, I certainly didn't feel any better about myself or life in general being around him, and most of the time I felt this nagging dread that things were going to fall apart, but I still convinced myself that we were in love and that my love was going to cure this wounded, misunderstood man.

Well, it didn't, and eventually he invited his soon-to-be-next girlfriend out with us on what I didn't know at the time was our last date. Yep. There we sat over tapas and sangria, his attention entirely focused on her, his gaze resting on her eyes and lips and breasts all dinner long, the two of them ignoring me completely, talking about what great travel companions they'd make. They were just "friends" because her brother was his co-worker. I was the one who was being defensive and "hysterical", he said, when we had an all out drunken brawl about it later on that night.

A week or so later, he gave me my walking papers and the two of them were living together within six months. So, you know, he set that up, he made me squirm, he loved every minute of it, and I cringe to this day thinking about what an imbecile I was when it came to him.

So....you don't want to hear dump the motherfucker already. All I can say is, then don't. But do know that he will dump you eventually, it will probably be in a really humiliating way, and you will go through alot of pain as a result. It may even involve sexual humiliation, given that he clearly has no boundaries when it comes to acting out sexually. So get comfortable with continuously feeling uncomfortable. Get ready to have to piece together the truth from a bunch of murky, half-lies that sound to gory to believe. Get ready to never be able to trust or feel really secure. Get ready to go to therapy. I guess that's all I or anyone else can advise you to do.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 2:57 PM on June 13, 2010 [26 favorites]


Am I just dumb
unlikely
and in love?
obviously
Can people really change?
only with difficulty, and only if they themselves see the necessity for it; and even then unlikely in the direction you might want them to change. (Or in other words, this dude may actually get worse over time, without your being able to do the least about it).

Falling in love with, er, other parts isn't sustainable as such. I read your post like that you already had plenty of "a little more", so I agree with Cool Papa Bell.
posted by Namlit at 3:08 PM on June 13, 2010


What are you asking, exactly?

You seem to want some kind of assurance here that the time you've spent with him and the emotions you've invested in him won't turn out to be a waste. IMHO that's a bad way to approach any relationship, and in any no one here can answer that for you. The most sensible advice in such a situation will be DTMFA (see above). Because if you see this as an investment, it definitely looks to us like a bad one.

What's the deal? Clearly, there is no deal. Your boyfriend has issues that you have violated his privacy (reading his diary, reading his Facebook messages) to discover and obsess about. He still wants to be with you and is trying to get better. I cannot speak to his motivations, but what's important is that you don't trust him and worry that you might still be getting played. You might be the reason for him to try harder (if he really loves you and wants to make you happy), or he might just not want to sabotage this for his own happiness (if he really wants to be with you). Either way, it seems that you don't want to give him another break - so don't.

What am I supposed to do? You're not supposed to do anything. Figure out what you want, do what you want and take responsibility for what you want/do.

Am I just dumb and in love? Not enough information.

Can people really change? Yes. Can we change completely? No. Do we have a great deal of control over how we change? Not much, not often.

Have I allowed myself to get played? Doesn't sound like it to me - actually, it sounds like you're trying to protect yourself now, which is understandable, but it doesn't make you his victim.

Should I just grow up? Not sure what growing up means if it's something you can just do. It happens in its own time, just don't refuse to grow up.

Here's the deal - you can't get into another person's head, and you can never trust someone without risking something/everything. But what you're finally trusting at the end of the day is your own perception of that person. If they're consistent, trust is easier to build than if they aren't. What it sounds to me like is that you really don't trust this guy, and after having been shocked by his private thoughts on more than one occasion, you're having a hard time trusting what you feel about him.

I think you should take some responsibility for violating his privacy, and stop investing in a future with him. Dumping him is the simplest way to do that.
posted by mondaygreens at 3:16 PM on June 13, 2010


I fell in love with other parts of him.

This is pretty common for some people. Unfortunately, it is not sustainable.

You might like only certain parts of him, but you can't divide those parts from the rest of him. He IS all of those things--that parts you like, and the parts you find to be disrespectful, etc. Wishing that the "bad" parts will go away and that the "good" parts will stay is an exercise in futility. It's not going to happen. You either like the whole deal...or walk away. Meaning, you either like how he treats you, how he treats sex, how he acts when he isn't with you, the entire person and his behavior. Or you decide that the good stuff isn't worth putting up with the bad stuff, you bite the bullet, and you leave.
posted by jeanmari at 3:22 PM on June 13, 2010 [7 favorites]


At the beginning of our relationship, he would talk about how he was unable to attract "hot" women.

He was trying to make you put yourself in the category of not-hot. He was trying, deliberately and consciously, to make you feel bad about yourself. Why else would he be telling you this? He was letting you know your place.

Do people change? No, they really don't, not without leaving their guts on the street for three miles behind them.

What should you do? Go find someone who makes you feel good and doesn't require fifty different internal questions for every interaction. Go have some fun. You're smart, you're articulate, you just graduated from college. Go find someone who's actually pleasurable to be around on a regular basis. That means 95% of the time. I'm guessing this guy's rocking the 30% mark, on the best of days.

The best thing you can figure out for yourself at this stage of your life is this very simple question: Does this feel good?

It sounds like a simple question, but it's not. Does this relationship feel good?

A hint: if you have to use an AskMe to figure it out: No.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 3:31 PM on June 13, 2010 [11 favorites]


Can people really change?

You should never base a relationship on how you expect the other person to change or grow. Some people change. Some for the worse. Many people remain pretty much the same for their entire adult life. You say "I feel even dumber for totally trusting him over break." Do you really want someone you can't even trust when he's out of your sight? That was just months ago!

If you don't really like who he is now, the most sensible thing to do is to move on. Those good moments you sometimes share? You've heard the saying that even a broken watch is right twice a day? That's a very low bar to set for a relationship.
posted by contrariwise at 4:01 PM on June 13, 2010 [1 favorite]


He tried to downplay the entire situation, which makes me even angrier.

This to me speaks of an incredibly immature response to getting caught in something like this. If he was able to downplay it to your face, that means he's already halfway excused himself for doing whatever he did -- and who knows what he'd have done if you hadn't found out?

He sounds like an emotional invalid. You have to stick with YOUR version of what's acceptable instead of constantly down-grading to his -- if that means you break up with him, so be it. It will be better for him in the long run than continuing to think he can create and then slip out of these sorts of problems at the last minute. The risks he's taking shows that he does not have a proper or realistic appreciation of your relationship.

Hold him to a high standard. He (and his future partner) will thank you for this someday.
posted by hermitosis at 4:11 PM on June 13, 2010


We have both just graduated college, and the time has come to make decisions.

Just noticed this part. Based on his problems and your (entirely justified) misgivings, I think you both need to stretch your wings and explore other options. You're entering a new phase of your lives, and remaining in sync outside of the college bubble is going to be hard even without these sorts of issues.
posted by hermitosis at 4:16 PM on June 13, 2010


I think a lot of people asking relationship questions bristle at "DTMFA" responses because they imply that the person you've been in a relationship with, the person you've cared about deeply for months or years is a jerk and worse. It implies that you've invested your time, energy, and heart in something worthless. Breaking up doesn't have to mean that the relationship was a waste of your time, or that your ex was a terrible person. It means that the relationship isn't working anymore--there are significant differences you can't work out, there's been a loss of trust, your partner has growing up he needs to do, whatever.

It sounds like your boyfriend is pretty immature and makes some bad choices (I'd be a lot less charitable if you hadn't said you just graduated college). But the truth is, he doesn't have to be a malicious abuser for this to be a relationship you should leave. There are things about him you enjoy and even love, but the things you're having trouble with are big, significant issues that you shouldn't compromise on. There are men who share the qualities you appreciate in your boyfriend who also respect women, don't make irresponsible, possibly illegal and definitely creepy choices regarding sex with teenagers, don't say manipulative things to make their partners feel bad, don't pursue other women while they're in a relationship, and don't downplay their partners' needs
posted by Meg_Murry at 4:33 PM on June 13, 2010 [2 favorites]


Obviously you actually know this guy and we don't, but reading the way you write about him, it seems like you have some serious doubts about him and the way he treats you (and women in general).

I'm not going to tell you what to do, except to listen to yourself. When I've had doubts a guy that I ignored because I really wanted it to work, it has ended exactly the way I feared it would. What really bugged me about the whole thing was that I knew what would happen. I wish someone had told me to listen to myself then.
posted by SoftRain at 4:38 PM on June 13, 2010 [4 favorites]


He sounds pathetic, but you want to stay with him for now, so I'll roll with that.

The key to being happy and staying sane with (any kind of) a jerk is not needing him. (Or her - this advice is not gender-specific.) I mean the kind of emotional autonomy where whatever hurtful, humiliating shit s/he pulls doesn't shake your self-respect, self confidence or your ability to be happy and stay focused at all. You simply don't rely on your jerk for support or validation, because one day it's there, the next s/he'll be sexting with someone else, brushing it off as no biggie and calling you a paranoid control-freak for flipping out. Or worse.

The state of mind where you can just shrug it all off would be extremely difficult for most people to achieve in a romantic relationship. And pretty unattractive, too, since most of us yearn for trust, closeness, intimacy and loving validation, and actively try to choose and nurture relationships where we actually have a chance of achieving those. I'm all for always retaining your own, independent sense of self-worth anyway, but I doubt whether this level of defensive detachment you'd need can ever be a healthy foundation for any relationship - but you want one with your jerk, so there you go. It's been years since I dated (and lived with) mine - at your age - and I still regret the time I wasted with him.

Be careful with birth control and watch out for STIs.
posted by sively at 4:46 PM on June 13, 2010 [3 favorites]


At the beginning of our relationship, he would talk about how he was unable to attract "hot" women.

Ignoring the 1,000 other billowing read flags here, this is fucking ROUGH.

He told you you're not hot.

At the beginning of the "relationship"

Do you think it'll get BETTER as time passes?
posted by tristeza at 5:01 PM on June 13, 2010 [1 favorite]


If you don't DTMFA, you'll probably just be Delaying The Moment For Awhile. Good luck.
posted by hamandcheese at 5:05 PM on June 13, 2010 [1 favorite]


I distrust men who think it's okay to badmouth women as a group. Simple as that. I can never trust them to have my back or to support me and, y'know, any other woman I am close with. If I can imagine him bad mouthing my mother/sister/friends, the relationship won't work.
posted by geek anachronism at 5:41 PM on June 13, 2010 [1 favorite]


He is not your boyfriend. He's your casual sex partner. I can almost guarantee that he's cheating on you, or will very soon, or already has.

I don't say this to be cruel. I know this kind of guy, in fact I am best friends with one. It doesn't mean he's a bad person, and it doesn't mean that he doesn't care for you. He simply cannot sustain a mature, monogamous relationship.

You have a few choices. You can ignore all the warning signs and try to make it work. You can treat him exactly how he treats you, and make the whole relationship a drama-bomb, or you can leave him, take some time to be by yourself and work at your self-esteem, and find someone who isn't an emotional child.

I love my friend. He's an awesome guy. I wouldn't want my worst enemy to date him. Some people are just like that, and maybe he'll change but he probably won't change with you.

All of this is easier said than done, and I wish you the best of luck.
posted by jnaps at 5:53 PM on June 13, 2010 [3 favorites]


I'd like advice that is a little more than DTMFA.

Okay, then: DTMFA, block his calls and emails, ignore him completely when he comes back in a few weeks/months/years and swears he's changed, and do not trust a word that comes out of his mouth from here on out, no matter how contrite or hurt he sounds.

Or, maybe he has been working on this, as you say, and maybe he did see the error of his ways, and maybe there's been no incident since winter break. If that's the case, and if you truly think these issues are completely behind you two, and if he's more wonderful than bad, go forward. However, he sounds like the kind of person who, when caught, will be "good" for just long enough to get you back, and then go back to chatting up women behind your back or whatever he's prone to do. And if he does, get rid of him immediately. Think of him as on probation right now.

Also, scody is right here:

You know how he talks about other women? Sooner or later, he's going to talk that way about you.

I would bet cash that he has already badmouthed you to women he wants to sleep with.
posted by Metroid Baby at 6:09 PM on June 13, 2010 [12 favorites]


OK, you could do everything within your power and make this last a while... Or, you could RIP THE BANDAID OFF NOW, TAKE THE PAIN... and get it over with. Life only gets shorter... Why waste it with someone who is not honoring of you and your gender? If you hate yourself, sure, he will affirm your self loathing. Otherwise, move along. Next questtion.
posted by jcworth at 6:36 PM on June 13, 2010 [1 favorite]


Wow, welcome to my former life! Now RUN! Seriously. Been there, done that, he had cheated, emotionally and physically, and repeatedly, and I should have trusted my gut earlier. And oh my gosh... Everyone I date now seems so NICE I comparison... And at the time I'd thought *he* was nice. I only left because I found out he'd cheated, but really I should have left because when I was with him I second guessed myself and who I was, what I had the right to expect.
posted by Chrysalis at 7:19 PM on June 13, 2010 [1 favorite]


Now is a WONDERFUL time to make some decisions.

Every relationship has its good parts but that doesn't mean it's a good relationship.
posted by salvia at 7:22 PM on June 13, 2010 [5 favorites]


Much of our relationship has been good

Wow, wouldn't know it from your description. From your description, you've got a guy that gets to keep you around, and simultaneously do whatever the hell he wants as if you weren't around. Unless you are okay with his lack of respect and lack of commitment, what a great time to move on. Like, yesterday.
posted by davejay at 10:12 PM on June 13, 2010


You don't mention anything good about this guy, and even if he was absolutely amazing in all other ways, the many red flags you've listed are enough to be a dealbreaker for me. Read what you wrote again. Would you recommend this guy or this relationship to anyone you even remotely liked?
posted by studioaudience at 11:13 PM on June 13, 2010


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