Is a Scottish accent with rolles r's a signifier of something?
June 11, 2010 7:04 AM Subscribe
A question about Dudley Moore in Bedazzled, The Seventh Dr. Who, and the Scottish accent uniting them.
I am just now getting in to Dr. Who and Torchwood, attacking both in a pretty scattered way. I recently saw the episode Rememberance of the Daleks and the other 3-episodes in the story arc. It was the first time was the first I'd seen any episode with Sylvester McCoy playing the Dr, and it struck me that his accent was very, very familiar. Wikipedia describes Sylvester McCoy's Dr as speaking with a mild Scottish accent with rolling r's. These are the exact two traits that made me think of a sene of Dudley Moore's in the 1967 version of Bedazzled. Specifically the scene showing his first wish when he asks the Devil to be articulate and charming, and ends up acting like a completely pretentious intellectual. I wish I could find footage of this scene online, I apologize. I can at least provide an example of the Dr.'s accent. Note the extreme rolled r in "Brigadier".
I'm bad with understanding what signals various UK accents are supposed to hint at the audience. What I'm wondering is, is this particular accent stereotypical of some personality trait? Is the rolling r meant to signal a specific social class? A snooty affectation? Is the seventh Dr supposed to be pretentiously intellectual like Moore's character in that once scene? Am I over-thinking this?
I am just now getting in to Dr. Who and Torchwood, attacking both in a pretty scattered way. I recently saw the episode Rememberance of the Daleks and the other 3-episodes in the story arc. It was the first time was the first I'd seen any episode with Sylvester McCoy playing the Dr, and it struck me that his accent was very, very familiar. Wikipedia describes Sylvester McCoy's Dr as speaking with a mild Scottish accent with rolling r's. These are the exact two traits that made me think of a sene of Dudley Moore's in the 1967 version of Bedazzled. Specifically the scene showing his first wish when he asks the Devil to be articulate and charming, and ends up acting like a completely pretentious intellectual. I wish I could find footage of this scene online, I apologize. I can at least provide an example of the Dr.'s accent. Note the extreme rolled r in "Brigadier".
I'm bad with understanding what signals various UK accents are supposed to hint at the audience. What I'm wondering is, is this particular accent stereotypical of some personality trait? Is the rolling r meant to signal a specific social class? A snooty affectation? Is the seventh Dr supposed to be pretentiously intellectual like Moore's character in that once scene? Am I over-thinking this?
I believe Dudley Moore's character's accent was Welsh, rather than Scottish, perhaps to allude to the Welsh being the Italians of Britain. The Irish are loquacious and entertaining, and the Scottish (cue Billy Connelly) use the accent to add to their wry humour.
I never saw many of McCoy's Who, but he seemed more a "dandy" than a "toff".
If an English actor were to appear "intellectual", they would more likely take an "Oxbridge" accent.
posted by arzakh at 8:14 AM on June 11, 2010
I never saw many of McCoy's Who, but he seemed more a "dandy" than a "toff".
If an English actor were to appear "intellectual", they would more likely take an "Oxbridge" accent.
posted by arzakh at 8:14 AM on June 11, 2010
Yes to appear snooty they are more likely to go into RP or if Scottish an upper class/lawyerly Edinburgh one.
McCoy, though born on the West Coast of Scotland was raised in Dublin which I think influenced his accent and made it a bit less full on 'Scottish'. I don't think there's anything in the rolled 'r's apart from exaggeration for the effect. McCoy was also more a stage / cabaret(ie vaudeville) performer than a screen one in his early career so sometimes he can be, to be kind, a bit over the top as a television performer (not helped by the general pantomime nature of later Who).
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 8:33 AM on June 11, 2010
McCoy, though born on the West Coast of Scotland was raised in Dublin which I think influenced his accent and made it a bit less full on 'Scottish'. I don't think there's anything in the rolled 'r's apart from exaggeration for the effect. McCoy was also more a stage / cabaret(ie vaudeville) performer than a screen one in his early career so sometimes he can be, to be kind, a bit over the top as a television performer (not helped by the general pantomime nature of later Who).
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 8:33 AM on June 11, 2010
Bedazzled is one of my all time favorite movies. Those responsible for the Brendan Fraser remake should be horse whipped.
That said, the pretentious accent Moore affects is that of a toff or toffee nose. Someone whose pretentiousness goes beyond their breeding & class to become a parody. (As arzakh notes about Dr Who.)
As far as Scottish rolling their R's--that's the settup up for one of my favorite jokes about language differences being spotted by those not from around there, wherever "there" is.
(condensed version)
Man and woman chatting each other up at the bar. After a few minutes of small talk, he asks "Are you Scottish by any chance?" "No," she replies "Lived in Uxbridge me whole life. Why do you ask?"
"Ah, it's just the way you roll your R's" he replies.
"Ach, no!" she says. "I'm just not used to wearing high heels."
posted by beelzbubba at 8:41 AM on June 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
That said, the pretentious accent Moore affects is that of a toff or toffee nose. Someone whose pretentiousness goes beyond their breeding & class to become a parody. (As arzakh notes about Dr Who.)
As far as Scottish rolling their R's--that's the settup up for one of my favorite jokes about language differences being spotted by those not from around there, wherever "there" is.
(condensed version)
Man and woman chatting each other up at the bar. After a few minutes of small talk, he asks "Are you Scottish by any chance?" "No," she replies "Lived in Uxbridge me whole life. Why do you ask?"
"Ah, it's just the way you roll your R's" he replies.
"Ach, no!" she says. "I'm just not used to wearing high heels."
posted by beelzbubba at 8:41 AM on June 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Okay, so I see now that the accents may not be the same after all, so maybe I should focus on the extreme rolled r's.
I get why Moore did the exaggerated r so much, it's meant to be an over the top parody, But Why is McCoy doing it? Does it give insight into the 7th Doctor's character at all? I know the character is pretty damn theatrical (he has a question mark umbrella an sweater vest). Is this the series being intentionally campy and over the top? Poking fun at itself?
posted by piratebowling at 9:10 AM on June 11, 2010
I get why Moore did the exaggerated r so much, it's meant to be an over the top parody, But Why is McCoy doing it? Does it give insight into the 7th Doctor's character at all? I know the character is pretty damn theatrical (he has a question mark umbrella an sweater vest). Is this the series being intentionally campy and over the top? Poking fun at itself?
posted by piratebowling at 9:10 AM on June 11, 2010
Response by poster: And beelzbubba, I can't agree with you more, That original Bedazzled ranks among my top movie choices and I refuse to see the remake. How could Fraser/Hurley touch Moore/Cook?
posted by piratebowling at 9:12 AM on June 11, 2010
posted by piratebowling at 9:12 AM on June 11, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
So what it's saying, if anything, is that the actor is either going over the top in the Scottishness dept., or that they're playing the part of someone who is somewhat old-fashioned, by dint of age, class or being from somewhere fairly remote.
posted by le morte de bea arthur at 7:29 AM on June 11, 2010