This is harder than I thought...
June 8, 2010 12:13 PM Subscribe
Bi/lesbian women: What can another woman say in a first message on a dating site to pique your interest? What do you look for in profiles/pictures/etc? I've been out for a few months, using OkCupid and Craigslist and haven't gotten one date.
There might be some useful ideas in this recent thread. Maybe not, since the question is different from yours, but it's worth checking out if you haven't already.
posted by Jaltcoh at 12:41 PM on June 8, 2010
posted by Jaltcoh at 12:41 PM on June 8, 2010
Have you ever seen the anecdote about lesbian sheep? It's been my experience as a ladytype person who dates other ladytype people that this is pretty much how human women are socialized to interact too: always waiting for the other one to show interest first.
Hah. On preview, MCMikeNamara is indeed on the right track. It's such a hard habit to break that I'm still crap at it myself, and I complain about this all the time! The only thing that has been even slightly helpful is making friends with a lot of other awesome queer ladies.
posted by clavicle at 12:44 PM on June 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
Hah. On preview, MCMikeNamara is indeed on the right track. It's such a hard habit to break that I'm still crap at it myself, and I complain about this all the time! The only thing that has been even slightly helpful is making friends with a lot of other awesome queer ladies.
posted by clavicle at 12:44 PM on June 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
Best answer: What can another woman say in a first message on a dating site to pique your interest?
Sounds like your problem isn’t that you’re not asking them.
I use okCupid and I just overhauled my profile. It seems to be getting better responses. This is without changing my messaging strategy, which is usually: Find thing in profile that I connect to. Tell small personal story about that thing. Ask question. What I changed was I was more open and honest about my interests and I made sure the profile didn’t come off as one note. I also used okCupid’s picture rater thing to find the best picture of me and put it in the first slot, although that was on a lark. I also had a buddy look it over to see if it sounded like me. I find when I’m reading profile’s I have an immediate “no” visceral reaction to key words and phrases like “I’m not crazy” or towards any sort of negative emotion expressed in the profile. If you want to memail me your id I could give it pass to see if anything stands out towards a stranger’s eye.
posted by edbles at 12:51 PM on June 8, 2010 [4 favorites]
Sounds like your problem isn’t that you’re not asking them.
I use okCupid and I just overhauled my profile. It seems to be getting better responses. This is without changing my messaging strategy, which is usually: Find thing in profile that I connect to. Tell small personal story about that thing. Ask question. What I changed was I was more open and honest about my interests and I made sure the profile didn’t come off as one note. I also used okCupid’s picture rater thing to find the best picture of me and put it in the first slot, although that was on a lark. I also had a buddy look it over to see if it sounded like me. I find when I’m reading profile’s I have an immediate “no” visceral reaction to key words and phrases like “I’m not crazy” or towards any sort of negative emotion expressed in the profile. If you want to memail me your id I could give it pass to see if anything stands out towards a stranger’s eye.
posted by edbles at 12:51 PM on June 8, 2010 [4 favorites]
Oh also just updating your profile on that site pushes you to the top of the results if you want to game it a little.
posted by edbles at 12:52 PM on June 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by edbles at 12:52 PM on June 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
Mostly: [blah blah blah something interesting about my profile or that we seem to have in common]...do you want to have coffee/tea next week?
But I'm up front in my profile about being totally fine with meeting someone pretty soon after we exchange a message or two.
posted by needs more cowbell at 1:41 PM on June 8, 2010
But I'm up front in my profile about being totally fine with meeting someone pretty soon after we exchange a message or two.
posted by needs more cowbell at 1:41 PM on June 8, 2010
Best answer: Another male here but I know the general mechanics of how getting dates on OKCupid works pretty well.
I've been out for a few months, using OkCupid and Craigslist and haven't gotten one date.
Without any more details than that, I'm guessing your problem is that you aren't messaging enough women. On the hetero side of things, guys are pretty much expected to always send the first message, so any women listed as bi are probably going to have a lot more messages coming from men than women. On OKCupid, a 1/3 response rate is pretty much average, and not all of those first message replies will lead to actual dates, so if you aren't sending dozens of messages you shouldn't worry that there's something wrong with you if you haven't ended up clicking with anyone.
What can another woman say in a first message on a dating site to pique your interest? What do you look for in profiles/pictures/etc?
Although details can affect your results, at a high level your first message should mainly bring up something non-awkward for them to reply to (the book/movie/music section is good for that), and not give them any reason to reject you right away (like misspelling your message or saying something weird or inappropriate). Your profile just needs to express who you are enough that they can decide if they want to talk to you on a dating site or not. If your profile represents you and your interests in an honest way, people who would be interested in dating you should be able to recognize that.
Also, if you are getting a lot of conversations going and no actual dates, try scaling down your expectations for how well you need to get to know someone on the site before you meet them in real life. A first "date" from a site like OKCupid is really just a reality check to make sure the person is who they seemed to be online and that you can both actually talk to each other in person. So if things are going well after a few messages back and forth, don't feel weird about asking them to meet for coffee or some other low key activity where you can get to know each other better in person. If they weren't interest in meeting people like you then they wouldn't be on the site talking to you in the first place.
posted by burnmp3s at 1:43 PM on June 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
I've been out for a few months, using OkCupid and Craigslist and haven't gotten one date.
Without any more details than that, I'm guessing your problem is that you aren't messaging enough women. On the hetero side of things, guys are pretty much expected to always send the first message, so any women listed as bi are probably going to have a lot more messages coming from men than women. On OKCupid, a 1/3 response rate is pretty much average, and not all of those first message replies will lead to actual dates, so if you aren't sending dozens of messages you shouldn't worry that there's something wrong with you if you haven't ended up clicking with anyone.
What can another woman say in a first message on a dating site to pique your interest? What do you look for in profiles/pictures/etc?
Although details can affect your results, at a high level your first message should mainly bring up something non-awkward for them to reply to (the book/movie/music section is good for that), and not give them any reason to reject you right away (like misspelling your message or saying something weird or inappropriate). Your profile just needs to express who you are enough that they can decide if they want to talk to you on a dating site or not. If your profile represents you and your interests in an honest way, people who would be interested in dating you should be able to recognize that.
Also, if you are getting a lot of conversations going and no actual dates, try scaling down your expectations for how well you need to get to know someone on the site before you meet them in real life. A first "date" from a site like OKCupid is really just a reality check to make sure the person is who they seemed to be online and that you can both actually talk to each other in person. So if things are going well after a few messages back and forth, don't feel weird about asking them to meet for coffee or some other low key activity where you can get to know each other better in person. If they weren't interest in meeting people like you then they wouldn't be on the site talking to you in the first place.
posted by burnmp3s at 1:43 PM on June 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer:
posted by lriG rorriM at 1:54 PM on June 8, 2010 [6 favorites]
- Things that pique my interest in a message:
- Referring to something I said in my profile in a funny or conversational way
- Bringing up common interests
- Asking a relevant or interesting or engaging question
- Writing more than two sentences. Seriously. When text is the medium, USE it. A lot. I'd always rather see more than less.
- Writing more than two sentences well.
- Things that turn me off nearly instantly:
- Writing without vowels. How hard is it to type out "ok" instead of "k"?
- Combative language. I don't want to hear about how you think my favorite book sucks.
- Immediate demands or statements of expectations about my time and schedule.
- Incredibly lousy grammar.
- The phrases "hook up", "need someone to teach me" or "my boyfriend and I..."
posted by lriG rorriM at 1:54 PM on June 8, 2010 [6 favorites]
After re-reading your message, I feel I may have assumed too much about you not making the first move. Sorry if that's the case.
Giving it further thought (and again assuming that though I'm a gay dude experienced in the art of picking up men, it's not too fundamentally different), when you are making this contact:
1) You are obviously writing to this person because you are interested. Let the people to whom you are writing know this. "I see you like X. I like X/am interested in people who like X because I know lots about it/want to know more about it/think it's hot/whatever" Anybody who has spent any time creating a profile that at all reflects what they are truly about will like to know why others are even bothering.
2) lriG rorriM: Writing more than two sentences. Seriously. When text is the medium, USE it. A lot. I'd always rather see more than less.
I can't agree with this more. Even in times when I was using online for...shall we say, more carnal encounters... you are probably not going to go wrong with giving more of yourself in your responses. (Or, in my opinion, if somebody isn't interested because you wrote too much, they aren't worth your time.)
3) I also agree that you should be sure to respond to a lot if you want many responses. It's unfortunately a numbers game, and the more you respond, the more chances of response you're going to have. However, focus on what you write. No matter how interested I may have been in someone based on their photo/profile, if I was obviously getting their standard "hey I'm interested in you" message that gave me no idea why they were interested, I was instantly turned off. There's a fine line between feeling like a piece of meat and feeling like a desired piece of meat; unfortunately, this is an even finer line online.
Again, good luck.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 2:16 PM on June 8, 2010
Giving it further thought (and again assuming that though I'm a gay dude experienced in the art of picking up men, it's not too fundamentally different), when you are making this contact:
1) You are obviously writing to this person because you are interested. Let the people to whom you are writing know this. "I see you like X. I like X/am interested in people who like X because I know lots about it/want to know more about it/think it's hot/whatever" Anybody who has spent any time creating a profile that at all reflects what they are truly about will like to know why others are even bothering.
2) lriG rorriM: Writing more than two sentences. Seriously. When text is the medium, USE it. A lot. I'd always rather see more than less.
I can't agree with this more. Even in times when I was using online for...shall we say, more carnal encounters... you are probably not going to go wrong with giving more of yourself in your responses. (Or, in my opinion, if somebody isn't interested because you wrote too much, they aren't worth your time.)
3) I also agree that you should be sure to respond to a lot if you want many responses. It's unfortunately a numbers game, and the more you respond, the more chances of response you're going to have. However, focus on what you write. No matter how interested I may have been in someone based on their photo/profile, if I was obviously getting their standard "hey I'm interested in you" message that gave me no idea why they were interested, I was instantly turned off. There's a fine line between feeling like a piece of meat and feeling like a desired piece of meat; unfortunately, this is an even finer line online.
Again, good luck.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 2:16 PM on June 8, 2010
A couple of other thoughts -
For me, personally, a person's pictures don't matter at all. It's kind of nice to be able to put a face to words, but it doesn't impact whether or not I will respond to a letter, or whether or not I'm inclined to write to someone.
Be clear on what you're looking for, and try to make sure your profile is clear on it, too. Also, pay close attention to what people say in their profiles, and inquire as to whether or not it's up to date. I often find that people have hard and fast limits that aren't spelled out in their profiles, and they will write me even though my situation isn't to their liking (i.e. "oh, you're in a relationship with a man? No thanks. No poly people for me" is something I get pretty often, even from people who were allegedly just looking for new friends).
Be patient and be persistent - sometimes people just don't log in. It's nothing to do with you, or your brilliantly crafted missive. Life just gets like that sometimes. If correspondence with someone is going well, and then it suddenly drops off, wait a little while, and then send a little note.
If your letter reads like a form letter, I won't respond. I absolutely will respond if it's funny, or if it looks like you took a little bit of time, or if you seem to really think we would click.
Try not to let the lack of dates get you down - there are a lot of ladies out there, and a very large number of them you don't want anything to do with. Putting forth the effort to be genuine and you means you're weeding out a lot of people you wouldn't get along with, and sooner or later, something will stick. Good luck!
posted by lriG rorriM at 3:43 PM on June 8, 2010
For me, personally, a person's pictures don't matter at all. It's kind of nice to be able to put a face to words, but it doesn't impact whether or not I will respond to a letter, or whether or not I'm inclined to write to someone.
Be clear on what you're looking for, and try to make sure your profile is clear on it, too. Also, pay close attention to what people say in their profiles, and inquire as to whether or not it's up to date. I often find that people have hard and fast limits that aren't spelled out in their profiles, and they will write me even though my situation isn't to their liking (i.e. "oh, you're in a relationship with a man? No thanks. No poly people for me" is something I get pretty often, even from people who were allegedly just looking for new friends).
Be patient and be persistent - sometimes people just don't log in. It's nothing to do with you, or your brilliantly crafted missive. Life just gets like that sometimes. If correspondence with someone is going well, and then it suddenly drops off, wait a little while, and then send a little note.
If your letter reads like a form letter, I won't respond. I absolutely will respond if it's funny, or if it looks like you took a little bit of time, or if you seem to really think we would click.
Try not to let the lack of dates get you down - there are a lot of ladies out there, and a very large number of them you don't want anything to do with. Putting forth the effort to be genuine and you means you're weeding out a lot of people you wouldn't get along with, and sooner or later, something will stick. Good luck!
posted by lriG rorriM at 3:43 PM on June 8, 2010
Try checking out this post from the OKCupid blog if you haven't yet.
Personally, I'm more likely to respond to a specific message than a generic one. If you find someone who likes the same kind of movies/books/whatever that you do, mention that in the message, and ask her about it (something like "You're into horror movies? Me too. What's your favorite?"). I've heard others say that once you've struck up a conversation, don't hesitate to ask her out. Just say you like talking to her, and ask if she wants to go out for drinks or coffee or something. Check out events in your area that relate to a common interest, and invite her to go with you ("You like [band X]. Did you know they're playing at [Venue Y]? We should check it out.")
posted by lexicakes at 9:33 PM on June 8, 2010
Personally, I'm more likely to respond to a specific message than a generic one. If you find someone who likes the same kind of movies/books/whatever that you do, mention that in the message, and ask her about it (something like "You're into horror movies? Me too. What's your favorite?"). I've heard others say that once you've struck up a conversation, don't hesitate to ask her out. Just say you like talking to her, and ask if she wants to go out for drinks or coffee or something. Check out events in your area that relate to a common interest, and invite her to go with you ("You like [band X]. Did you know they're playing at [Venue Y]? We should check it out.")
posted by lexicakes at 9:33 PM on June 8, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
A lot of women, especially those who have just come out, have, despite their own non-mainstream orientation, been so used to the idea that the woman "doesn't/shouldn't make the first move" that despite the fact that they would never give that advice to a straight female friend who asks what to do, they don't realize that they are waiting for someone else to make the first move.
If even a small majority of bi/lesbian women act this way, you can see how this wouldn't work, especially online -- when a lot of people don't take action beyond placing an ad to begin with. It's easy in a bar to tell if no one is talking to each other. But online, it can seem like everybody else is interacting but you, when perhaps, everybody else is waiting for somebody to make the first move.
(I'm not sure if your "haven't gotten one date" falls into this sort of inaction, but just in case -- and for those who might be reading this in future -- I thought I'd say it.)
Good luck. Doing something is always a better way at getting something than doing nothing, so even though it doesn't feel like it yet, your still miles ahead of where you were a few months ago. I'm sure someday these salad days of "total dates = 0" will seem far away soon.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 12:34 PM on June 8, 2010 [1 favorite]