Tell me where to move
May 26, 2010 7:06 AM Subscribe
Looking to move on to grad school, hoping for input from the hivemind on livable cities.
I think finding a school may be the somewhat easier part as I doubt what I'm looking for is all that uncommon, so we're mainly interested in finding a good place to live for a while.
As far as university is concerned I'm looking for history department open to a grad student doing modern (American and other English speaking) history with an emphasis on technology as it applies to social change from a minority (ethnic, sexual, economic) standpoint. Obviously the thesis and eventual dissertation subject will have to narrow things a bit. A decent women's studies and minority studies department would be necessary, which does narrow things a bit, but I'm betting that any place that matches the other requirements will likely be near enough to a university that can accommodate me. If not I'll have to start looking at this from the university standpoint rather than the "decent place to live for a while" standpoint.
The west coast somewhere would be nice, but isn't a requirement.
We'd like to be in a moderately sized city (minimum pop 500,000 or so?). Good public transit would be a very big plus.
Our kid is 3, so we'll want a place with good schools, or possibly good private Montessori elementary schools.
I have been told by my partner that under no circumstances will she move to Oklahoma, Kansas, "or anywhere else rural".
Since I'll be in school and she's a high school teacher some place where the cost of living isn't Tokyo or New York City high would be necessary.
A place with a few good Asian grocery stores would be very much a plus.
Where should we move?
I think finding a school may be the somewhat easier part as I doubt what I'm looking for is all that uncommon, so we're mainly interested in finding a good place to live for a while.
As far as university is concerned I'm looking for history department open to a grad student doing modern (American and other English speaking) history with an emphasis on technology as it applies to social change from a minority (ethnic, sexual, economic) standpoint. Obviously the thesis and eventual dissertation subject will have to narrow things a bit. A decent women's studies and minority studies department would be necessary, which does narrow things a bit, but I'm betting that any place that matches the other requirements will likely be near enough to a university that can accommodate me. If not I'll have to start looking at this from the university standpoint rather than the "decent place to live for a while" standpoint.
The west coast somewhere would be nice, but isn't a requirement.
We'd like to be in a moderately sized city (minimum pop 500,000 or so?). Good public transit would be a very big plus.
Our kid is 3, so we'll want a place with good schools, or possibly good private Montessori elementary schools.
I have been told by my partner that under no circumstances will she move to Oklahoma, Kansas, "or anywhere else rural".
Since I'll be in school and she's a high school teacher some place where the cost of living isn't Tokyo or New York City high would be necessary.
A place with a few good Asian grocery stores would be very much a plus.
Where should we move?
Arlington, Virginia - it's a suburb of DC, and metro takes you right into the city quickly and easily. If you went to GWU or Georgetown, it's actually be *easier* to commute from Arlington than from a lot of the city proper. (On the other hand, the commute from Arlington to American University would be brutal on public transit). Good schools, and though it's pricey, it's often cheaper than DC and much cheaper than NYC.
posted by Mr. Excellent at 7:13 AM on May 26, 2010
posted by Mr. Excellent at 7:13 AM on May 26, 2010
Madison, Wisconsin. Wonderful city, great place to grow up (and great schools), great (and beautiful) university, I can't imagine a better place for you.
The metro area is about 500,000, and buses are aplenty; it's also a very walkable/bikeable city. The University has excellent programs in history and a variety of different minority studies.
There is also a huge Asian grocery store right near campus.
posted by eenagy at 7:18 AM on May 26, 2010
The metro area is about 500,000, and buses are aplenty; it's also a very walkable/bikeable city. The University has excellent programs in history and a variety of different minority studies.
There is also a huge Asian grocery store right near campus.
posted by eenagy at 7:18 AM on May 26, 2010
You should move to the department that fulfills your intellectual and programmatic needs. Any other criteria will make grad school a waste of your time and money. I wish you good luck in getting most of the rest of your wants.
posted by pickypicky at 7:32 AM on May 26, 2010 [10 favorites]
posted by pickypicky at 7:32 AM on May 26, 2010 [10 favorites]
Philadelphia and UPenn fit your criteria fairly well.
In addition, it has multiple HMarts (Korean), about four large Chinese supermarkets, and a couple of smaller Indian/Pakistani grocery stores so your Asian grocery shopping is taken care of.
The cost of living is reasonable, public transit comes in the form of buses, trolleys, trains and subway (SEPTA has driven me a bit crazy from time to time, but it does work fairly well as these things go - as a student you can get a discounted semester-long transit pass which will make life easier).
posted by sciencegeek at 7:44 AM on May 26, 2010
In addition, it has multiple HMarts (Korean), about four large Chinese supermarkets, and a couple of smaller Indian/Pakistani grocery stores so your Asian grocery shopping is taken care of.
The cost of living is reasonable, public transit comes in the form of buses, trolleys, trains and subway (SEPTA has driven me a bit crazy from time to time, but it does work fairly well as these things go - as a student you can get a discounted semester-long transit pass which will make life easier).
posted by sciencegeek at 7:44 AM on May 26, 2010
Austin.
posted by CharlesV42 at 7:46 AM on May 26, 2010
posted by CharlesV42 at 7:46 AM on May 26, 2010
Not sure about the grad schools or elementary schools, but Austin fits your bill pretty well. Yeah, it's Texas, but it's not really Texas. Certainly not rural. UT Austin is so huge, I don't doubt you'll be able to find your niche, and at least the engineering department, treats their grad students pretty well.
Low cost of living, pretty decent bus system (esp if you want to get to campus), and a pretty nice asian immigrant piece of town with (and this is from someone that used to live outside DC) one of the bigger asian grocery stores I've been to.
Where I live is very walkable, but if you'd like lower rents, that of course comes with greater distance from downtown & campus. Most grad students live north, which is pretty new-suburby (not exactly my tastes, but I also don't have kids). I'd look into the Hyde Park neighborhood. You'd be walking distance to a grocery store just about anywhere, and a bike ride away from campus. Austin is pretty good about keeping big box stores to the outskirts of town, so you may want a car or car share membership for that. Austin also has tons of parks, especially in older neighborhoods, and lots of kid friendly events.
posted by fontophilic at 7:47 AM on May 26, 2010
Low cost of living, pretty decent bus system (esp if you want to get to campus), and a pretty nice asian immigrant piece of town with (and this is from someone that used to live outside DC) one of the bigger asian grocery stores I've been to.
Where I live is very walkable, but if you'd like lower rents, that of course comes with greater distance from downtown & campus. Most grad students live north, which is pretty new-suburby (not exactly my tastes, but I also don't have kids). I'd look into the Hyde Park neighborhood. You'd be walking distance to a grocery store just about anywhere, and a bike ride away from campus. Austin is pretty good about keeping big box stores to the outskirts of town, so you may want a car or car share membership for that. Austin also has tons of parks, especially in older neighborhoods, and lots of kid friendly events.
posted by fontophilic at 7:47 AM on May 26, 2010
I think Seattle fits the bill. And I'm going to disagree with pickypicky -- it's pretty common for graduate students to get to the point where they are ready to quit, and for spouses of graduate students -- especially if they are providing the financial support -- to get to a point where they are trying to decide whether to kill their mate or the advisor. Living in a place you and your spouse like makes everything easier, and could be the difference between finishing and not finishing, staying married and splitting up.
posted by Killick at 8:02 AM on May 26, 2010
posted by Killick at 8:02 AM on May 26, 2010
Chapel Hill or Durham are ideal for everything you're looking for. The public education system in Chapel Hill is fantastic, plus there are more Montessori schools than there are McDonald's (not hyperbole) here. No traffic, cost of living is low, great places to eat (especially with kids).
It's no exactly city life, though, so I can't tell how much of an urban setting you want. It's pretty suburban around here, though of a pretty highly cultured kind.
posted by Philemon at 8:03 AM on May 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
It's no exactly city life, though, so I can't tell how much of an urban setting you want. It's pretty suburban around here, though of a pretty highly cultured kind.
posted by Philemon at 8:03 AM on May 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
Ithaca, even though it's smaller than what you want.
posted by mareli at 8:07 AM on May 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by mareli at 8:07 AM on May 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
To expand on my exceedingly verbose post above, Boston is really very lovely. I've heard Harvard is a good school, but there is obviously a high concentration of universities with graduate programs. There's lots of nice green things nearby, and there is water in ocean form.
Chinatown is great, and there are Asian markets in some abundance.
There are a number of good schooling options. Of course, it varies by where you live and you'll have to do some research.
What I like about Boston is that the actual city is really not that big; the city population is about 620,000 per wikipedia, though the greater Boston area comprises a few million. When you add on all the other neighborhoods and neighboring towns, though, you get a lot of options for fine tuning where you want to live. Like posh? Beacon Hill, Back Bay, and Brookline (and Weston and other places I never go to). Like artsy? South End, Jamaica Plain, etc. Like hipsters? Alston/Brighton, maybe Somerville or wherever. Cambridge! Lexington and Concord! Southie! There's lots to love.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 8:13 AM on May 26, 2010
Chinatown is great, and there are Asian markets in some abundance.
There are a number of good schooling options. Of course, it varies by where you live and you'll have to do some research.
What I like about Boston is that the actual city is really not that big; the city population is about 620,000 per wikipedia, though the greater Boston area comprises a few million. When you add on all the other neighborhoods and neighboring towns, though, you get a lot of options for fine tuning where you want to live. Like posh? Beacon Hill, Back Bay, and Brookline (and Weston and other places I never go to). Like artsy? South End, Jamaica Plain, etc. Like hipsters? Alston/Brighton, maybe Somerville or wherever. Cambridge! Lexington and Concord! Southie! There's lots to love.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 8:13 AM on May 26, 2010
2nd-ing pickypicky. Go to the best program you can possibly get into that has the greatest number of faculty members doing the specific kind of work which you want to be doing. (You need the best possible program because you want the best possible chance of getting a job and not being $200k in debt for the rest of your life, unless of course your spouse is able and willing to support you financially.) If you don't know what specific thing you want to be studying, don't go to a Ph.D. program yet -- take some time off, think some more about what you really want to be doing with your life, get a master's if you really feel the need for an advanced degree in what is broadly referred to as "the humanities."
The fact that you are even thinking about "livable cities" before specific schools is a bit worrisome and indicates to me that you might not fully understand what it will be like to pursue a Ph.D. in history (the phrase "dissertation subject" suggests to me that you're looking to be Dr. Sotonohito somewhere down the line). If you don't have funding (totally not a guarantee in a lot of doctoral history programs), it's going to be really expensive, it's going to eat roughly 6-7 years of your life if you are lucky, and when you get out, the job market really sucks for history professors. Shit, I'm getting a Ph.D. in the sciences where you don't have to worry about tuition and they pay you a stipend to go to school -- even still, I've taken a huge financial hit compared with my college friends who got jobs or took master's degrees (based on the opportunity cost alone), and I'm freaked out about the job situation in my field. Don't enter a Ph.D. program based on the rosy pictures painted by people who know you well and tell you that Of Course You Can Be A Professor, Because You Are A Brilliant Thinker. There's a lot of Brilliant Thinkers with useless Ph.D.'s. The only reason to get a Ph.D. is because you care so passionately much about history (or biology, or computer science, or English literature, or whatever) that you really don't want to do anything else, you don't care about all the money that you could be making doing something else, and you wouldn't notice if you were in a liveable city or a squalid hovel in the middle of the ghetto, as long as you got to keep working on your subject. Again, please ignore my rant if you are independently wealthy or something like that, and it doesn't matter whether or not you land a faculty job -- in that case, you can go wherever you want.
To answer your actual question: In terms of liveable cities with a low cost of living, I would nth Austin. I'm personally very fond of Pittsburgh, but the transit is only mediocre and the winters can be annoying (ice/snow plus big hills). I like Philly alright, too. I also like DC and its suburbs (though they ain't exactly cheap). Many of the Midwestern cities might also fit the bill: Madison, WI; Ann Arbor and/or Ypsilanti, MI (a lot of people who are in grad school at University of Michigan live in Ypsi, the next town over, because it's cheaper); Iowa City, IA; Minneapolis, MN all might be places you would like (naming these cities in particular because they're university cities, and because I know at least two people who have lived there and like the city).
posted by kataclysm at 8:20 AM on May 26, 2010 [3 favorites]
The fact that you are even thinking about "livable cities" before specific schools is a bit worrisome and indicates to me that you might not fully understand what it will be like to pursue a Ph.D. in history (the phrase "dissertation subject" suggests to me that you're looking to be Dr. Sotonohito somewhere down the line). If you don't have funding (totally not a guarantee in a lot of doctoral history programs), it's going to be really expensive, it's going to eat roughly 6-7 years of your life if you are lucky, and when you get out, the job market really sucks for history professors. Shit, I'm getting a Ph.D. in the sciences where you don't have to worry about tuition and they pay you a stipend to go to school -- even still, I've taken a huge financial hit compared with my college friends who got jobs or took master's degrees (based on the opportunity cost alone), and I'm freaked out about the job situation in my field. Don't enter a Ph.D. program based on the rosy pictures painted by people who know you well and tell you that Of Course You Can Be A Professor, Because You Are A Brilliant Thinker. There's a lot of Brilliant Thinkers with useless Ph.D.'s. The only reason to get a Ph.D. is because you care so passionately much about history (or biology, or computer science, or English literature, or whatever) that you really don't want to do anything else, you don't care about all the money that you could be making doing something else, and you wouldn't notice if you were in a liveable city or a squalid hovel in the middle of the ghetto, as long as you got to keep working on your subject. Again, please ignore my rant if you are independently wealthy or something like that, and it doesn't matter whether or not you land a faculty job -- in that case, you can go wherever you want.
To answer your actual question: In terms of liveable cities with a low cost of living, I would nth Austin. I'm personally very fond of Pittsburgh, but the transit is only mediocre and the winters can be annoying (ice/snow plus big hills). I like Philly alright, too. I also like DC and its suburbs (though they ain't exactly cheap). Many of the Midwestern cities might also fit the bill: Madison, WI; Ann Arbor and/or Ypsilanti, MI (a lot of people who are in grad school at University of Michigan live in Ypsi, the next town over, because it's cheaper); Iowa City, IA; Minneapolis, MN all might be places you would like (naming these cities in particular because they're university cities, and because I know at least two people who have lived there and like the city).
posted by kataclysm at 8:20 AM on May 26, 2010 [3 favorites]
I would also argue against the Washington, DC area, having grown up there and lived there most of my life until a few years ago. It has to be one of the most unlivable cities in the US, esp. for a grad student:
- absolutely insane traffic (think you can coast to the movies at 3 on a Saturday? Not so fast.)
- very high cost of living, esp. rent or housing
- air pollution and air quality among the worst in the US (keep this in mind for your 3 year-old; most days of summer begin with a pleasant "ozone alert day" warning on the radio)
- moderate crime in many areas
- getting around on the subway is convenient only if you live near one, which is really extremely expensive, and, as a grad student: you will not be living anywhere near a subway stop. Just note this: getting to and from your university with a hellish commute. You don't want that on top of everything else.
There are great things about DC, too, but if a low-stress city that allows you to spend time with your books and your family (rather than in traffic) which won't put your bank account on life support, do not consider this city.
posted by Philemon at 8:24 AM on May 26, 2010 [2 favorites]
- absolutely insane traffic (think you can coast to the movies at 3 on a Saturday? Not so fast.)
- very high cost of living, esp. rent or housing
- air pollution and air quality among the worst in the US (keep this in mind for your 3 year-old; most days of summer begin with a pleasant "ozone alert day" warning on the radio)
- moderate crime in many areas
- getting around on the subway is convenient only if you live near one, which is really extremely expensive, and, as a grad student: you will not be living anywhere near a subway stop. Just note this: getting to and from your university with a hellish commute. You don't want that on top of everything else.
There are great things about DC, too, but if a low-stress city that allows you to spend time with your books and your family (rather than in traffic) which won't put your bank account on life support, do not consider this city.
posted by Philemon at 8:24 AM on May 26, 2010 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: To clarify on the academic issue: right now I'm looking for a master's. I will probably go for a Ph.D after that, and for that I have no doubt it will have to be school first then city. I may be wrong, but I think that for the MA part I can be more flexible. If I am wrong, obviously plans will have to change to accept that.
posted by sotonohito at 8:27 AM on May 26, 2010
posted by sotonohito at 8:27 AM on May 26, 2010
I know this is off topic, but I want to expand a little bit on the comments that you should focus more on getting into the best possible program for what you want to do, so that you can get a job. This is certainly sound advice, and I'm sure they'd agree with the following qualification.
One, doing well in a PhD program involves a lot of stress, and you don't want to study in a place that makes you miserable. Especially considering you have a family. If you have to choose between one school which is ranked 5th best history program, but it's in a location that's terrible for you, and one that's ranked 25th, but offers a great quality of life, I don't think you're hurting your career by going with the latter.
Keep in mind, too: coming out of a school with a better rep may actually hurt you when you're applying for a particular job. Most of the jobs posted in your field will not be from elite schools, and many of them will be looking for people they expect to stay there, which means that they'd be more inclined to hire the person from, say, the University of Washington, than the person from Yale.
In the end, in fact, the hiring of PhDs for faculty positions in the humanities is such a crap-shoot, that it's almost pointless to stress over these decisions. Go where you think you'll be happiest.
posted by Philemon at 8:34 AM on May 26, 2010
One, doing well in a PhD program involves a lot of stress, and you don't want to study in a place that makes you miserable. Especially considering you have a family. If you have to choose between one school which is ranked 5th best history program, but it's in a location that's terrible for you, and one that's ranked 25th, but offers a great quality of life, I don't think you're hurting your career by going with the latter.
Keep in mind, too: coming out of a school with a better rep may actually hurt you when you're applying for a particular job. Most of the jobs posted in your field will not be from elite schools, and many of them will be looking for people they expect to stay there, which means that they'd be more inclined to hire the person from, say, the University of Washington, than the person from Yale.
In the end, in fact, the hiring of PhDs for faculty positions in the humanities is such a crap-shoot, that it's almost pointless to stress over these decisions. Go where you think you'll be happiest.
posted by Philemon at 8:34 AM on May 26, 2010
Philemon:
You make some fair points about DC - but as I'm madly, deeply in love with the city, I feel the need to defend its honor anyway. :)
I agree that traffic is insane - but that's what public transit is for. And it isn't necessarily all that expensive to live near it. I'm paying $1,000/month for a one-bedroom near the Ballston metro, for example. And in law school, I rented a house with friends and ended up paying only $750/month in rent. Living near the metro in grad school is very doable , and a very good idea.
I agree with you on air quality - it's bad enough that *I've* sometimes noticed after walking a few miles in August, and I'm a healthy male in my mid-twenties.
But as for crime? It varies a *lot*, and there are plenty of places that are insanely safe. Arlington is one of them - I've walked home from the bars at all hours, never with a problem. Much of Northwest DC is the same.
posted by Mr. Excellent at 9:51 AM on May 26, 2010
You make some fair points about DC - but as I'm madly, deeply in love with the city, I feel the need to defend its honor anyway. :)
I agree that traffic is insane - but that's what public transit is for. And it isn't necessarily all that expensive to live near it. I'm paying $1,000/month for a one-bedroom near the Ballston metro, for example. And in law school, I rented a house with friends and ended up paying only $750/month in rent. Living near the metro in grad school is very doable , and a very good idea.
I agree with you on air quality - it's bad enough that *I've* sometimes noticed after walking a few miles in August, and I'm a healthy male in my mid-twenties.
But as for crime? It varies a *lot*, and there are plenty of places that are insanely safe. Arlington is one of them - I've walked home from the bars at all hours, never with a problem. Much of Northwest DC is the same.
posted by Mr. Excellent at 9:51 AM on May 26, 2010
2nding Philadelphia for the same reasons as sciencegeek plus the fact that they have a lot of cultural things to do for recreation if your family is into that. Lots of independant theater, music of all sorts, a great art museum, science museum, franklin institute, mutter museum, cheap imported beer, cheaper domestic beer, easy access to NYC and DC, cheap living available, and a good mix of lifelong neighboorhood people and transients.
posted by WeekendJen at 9:54 AM on May 26, 2010
posted by WeekendJen at 9:54 AM on May 26, 2010
Best answer: right now I'm looking for a master's. I will probably go for a Ph.D after that
This is unwise, unless your BA performance and/or institution were unimpressive and you're looking to get an MA to move to a top-N PhD program.
Otherwise, apply for phd programs, as your odds of being funded are dramatically, hugely higher if you're admitted as a phd student. If you don't like it, you'll still be able to quit after the MA.
I have been told by my partner that under no circumstances will she move to Oklahoma, Kansas, "or anywhere else rural".
If you expect to stay with her, this makes the answer simple:
Don't go at all. If most of the country is off-limits to you, including that vast rural area of the midwest that's littered with small colleges and nearly every state university in the country, then there's really very little point in acquiring a humanities graduate degree. There will be precious few jobs waiting for the graduates of 2015-2017, and you would be unable to apply for the majority of them.
By all means apply anyway. But if your eventual location options are as limited as you say, then unless the very best history programs in the country are competing to see which you'll get your phd from, just don't bother.
tl;dr version:
Little point in a humanities MA unless it's a professional qualification.
Little point in a phd unless you want to work as a prof.
Little point in wanting to work as a prof unless you're willing to live almost anywhere in the US.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:06 AM on May 26, 2010 [9 favorites]
This is unwise, unless your BA performance and/or institution were unimpressive and you're looking to get an MA to move to a top-N PhD program.
Otherwise, apply for phd programs, as your odds of being funded are dramatically, hugely higher if you're admitted as a phd student. If you don't like it, you'll still be able to quit after the MA.
I have been told by my partner that under no circumstances will she move to Oklahoma, Kansas, "or anywhere else rural".
If you expect to stay with her, this makes the answer simple:
Don't go at all. If most of the country is off-limits to you, including that vast rural area of the midwest that's littered with small colleges and nearly every state university in the country, then there's really very little point in acquiring a humanities graduate degree. There will be precious few jobs waiting for the graduates of 2015-2017, and you would be unable to apply for the majority of them.
By all means apply anyway. But if your eventual location options are as limited as you say, then unless the very best history programs in the country are competing to see which you'll get your phd from, just don't bother.
tl;dr version:
Little point in a humanities MA unless it's a professional qualification.
Little point in a phd unless you want to work as a prof.
Little point in wanting to work as a prof unless you're willing to live almost anywhere in the US.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:06 AM on May 26, 2010 [9 favorites]
Pittsburgh and Sacramento/Davis come to mind as relatively inexpensive places that meet your criteria. Salt Lake City isn't terribly expensive; nor is Albany.
Seattle fits the bill, but is not cheap; that goes double for the bay area. Eugene's smaller than what you're looking for, but inexpensive and not that far from Portland.
posted by willpie at 10:14 AM on May 26, 2010
Seattle fits the bill, but is not cheap; that goes double for the bay area. Eugene's smaller than what you're looking for, but inexpensive and not that far from Portland.
posted by willpie at 10:14 AM on May 26, 2010
This seems to be two questions: where is a good place to live, and should I go to graduate school?
I think that ROU_Xenophobe did a good job of hashing out the second question. As for the first question, there are lots of good suggestions for places where it is nice to live. I can vouch for Austin. So why not just move to Austin, or Madison? Why make it hinge on going to graduate school?
posted by pickypicky at 10:42 AM on May 26, 2010
I think that ROU_Xenophobe did a good job of hashing out the second question. As for the first question, there are lots of good suggestions for places where it is nice to live. I can vouch for Austin. So why not just move to Austin, or Madison? Why make it hinge on going to graduate school?
posted by pickypicky at 10:42 AM on May 26, 2010
Nthing that you'll want to aim for PhD programs and be secretly ready to bail with the PhD.
Nthing that you need to focus on depts that match your interests. You're more likely to get in and more likely to succeed. (I say that you do a google scholar search and find keywords that lead to scholars you dig.)
To add a woman/mommy's perspective. If you are a little older, do the math: 5-7 years of grad school, 1-2 years of postdoc, 7ish years of asst prof (if you're lucky), 7ish years of associate...
In my own calculations (I'm 31), it'll be a long time before my student debt is paid off (I'm funded but live in an expensive city) - what about retirement planning? Plus you're doing private school??
Google Benton graduate school for some thought on grad school generally... But IMHO if you're a bit older, it is a bad financial decision to go to grad school.
Actually, I wouldn't advise grad school for anyone nowadays.
There are few jobs and even fewer jobs that aren't in places that (it sounds like) you wouldn't want to live.
posted by k8t at 10:50 AM on May 26, 2010
Nthing that you need to focus on depts that match your interests. You're more likely to get in and more likely to succeed. (I say that you do a google scholar search and find keywords that lead to scholars you dig.)
To add a woman/mommy's perspective. If you are a little older, do the math: 5-7 years of grad school, 1-2 years of postdoc, 7ish years of asst prof (if you're lucky), 7ish years of associate...
In my own calculations (I'm 31), it'll be a long time before my student debt is paid off (I'm funded but live in an expensive city) - what about retirement planning? Plus you're doing private school??
Google Benton graduate school for some thought on grad school generally... But IMHO if you're a bit older, it is a bad financial decision to go to grad school.
Actually, I wouldn't advise grad school for anyone nowadays.
There are few jobs and even fewer jobs that aren't in places that (it sounds like) you wouldn't want to live.
posted by k8t at 10:50 AM on May 26, 2010
Ok, now I read that you are 35. Lets assume that you're applying for the 2011-12 school year - goal to graduate 2018 (you'll be 43.) That's a lot of important years at a financial loss.
posted by k8t at 10:59 AM on May 26, 2010
posted by k8t at 10:59 AM on May 26, 2010
Agreeing with those who point out that getting into a program in a nice city isn't the hard part--it's getting an academic job offer in a nice city afterward. The chances of that happening for any of us are ever-so-slightly higher than fuck all.
So, when you make your decision right now, find out where the graduates of the programs you're interested in are ending up, because that's the kind of place where you might end up in a couple years. (I know you're looking at a terminal MA with the intent to do a PhD elsewhere--same basic plan, ask the MA program where their graduates do PhDs and then research those schools' placement records.)
posted by Beardman at 12:16 PM on May 26, 2010
So, when you make your decision right now, find out where the graduates of the programs you're interested in are ending up, because that's the kind of place where you might end up in a couple years. (I know you're looking at a terminal MA with the intent to do a PhD elsewhere--same basic plan, ask the MA program where their graduates do PhDs and then research those schools' placement records.)
posted by Beardman at 12:16 PM on May 26, 2010
Mr. Excellent, there are definitely good things about DC! I, too, lived in Arlington and worked in Georgetown, walking or cycling across the Key Bridge, for several years, which is as good as it gets in that area. DC is a unique American city; in a lot of ways, our most European city.
You're right about crime -- varies a lot, and I thought Arlington perfectly safe. I was thinking though, whether the poster might consider UMD-College Park (which has a highly regarded History department), which is in PG County. Crime - on campus - is not rare there.
You're right, too, that with creativity and flexibility, the poster could find some affordable housing in a decent location. But he's not a law student - he's going to have a 12K stipend and maybe some loans - plus he has a family, so it just seems like it will be a bit harder for him to find a comparable situation.
DC does have libraries for academic research in history that won't be beat anywhere, though, among other things.
posted by Philemon at 12:16 PM on May 26, 2010
You're right about crime -- varies a lot, and I thought Arlington perfectly safe. I was thinking though, whether the poster might consider UMD-College Park (which has a highly regarded History department), which is in PG County. Crime - on campus - is not rare there.
You're right, too, that with creativity and flexibility, the poster could find some affordable housing in a decent location. But he's not a law student - he's going to have a 12K stipend and maybe some loans - plus he has a family, so it just seems like it will be a bit harder for him to find a comparable situation.
DC does have libraries for academic research in history that won't be beat anywhere, though, among other things.
posted by Philemon at 12:16 PM on May 26, 2010
I think getting an MA is a great thing to do, so long as you understand what it can do for you and why you're doing it. Don't be discouraged about it - if you want to spend some time thinking deeply about ideas you find fascinating, you should go for it.
posted by Philemon at 12:21 PM on May 26, 2010
posted by Philemon at 12:21 PM on May 26, 2010
Response by poster: ROU_Xenophobe, thanks for the tip about Ph.D apps vs. MA apps. I'm first generation in my family going for a higher degree so I'm kind of fumbling around here.
We do need to talk more about eventual living/working place.
If that's the way I need to go, applying for a Ph.D program right off rather than MA then moving to a different school for Ph.D, then obviously my priorities as far as determining where to move change.
k8t, yup I'm very late doing this. My current job pays ok, but if it vanishes my odds of finding a similar paying job are next to non-existent. Not only do I want to continue my education and move on to teaching, my options are that or stay where I am and hope my job doesn't go away.
I also realize there is a requirement I hadn't considered, and that's air quality. My kid is three, and he had lung problems requiring oxygen and breathing treatments until he was around 2; he's doing fine now but I am nervous about air pollution now that I've been reminded that it exists. I currently live in a place with excellent air quality so I hadn't even remembered that other places don't.
posted by sotonohito at 1:11 PM on May 26, 2010
We do need to talk more about eventual living/working place.
If that's the way I need to go, applying for a Ph.D program right off rather than MA then moving to a different school for Ph.D, then obviously my priorities as far as determining where to move change.
k8t, yup I'm very late doing this. My current job pays ok, but if it vanishes my odds of finding a similar paying job are next to non-existent. Not only do I want to continue my education and move on to teaching, my options are that or stay where I am and hope my job doesn't go away.
I also realize there is a requirement I hadn't considered, and that's air quality. My kid is three, and he had lung problems requiring oxygen and breathing treatments until he was around 2; he's doing fine now but I am nervous about air pollution now that I've been reminded that it exists. I currently live in a place with excellent air quality so I hadn't even remembered that other places don't.
posted by sotonohito at 1:11 PM on May 26, 2010
Response by poster: er "we" as in my partner and I, not you and I.....
posted by sotonohito at 1:12 PM on May 26, 2010
posted by sotonohito at 1:12 PM on May 26, 2010
University of Minnesota - Twin Cities fits your criteria, if you can handle the weather.
posted by look busy at 1:18 PM on May 26, 2010
posted by look busy at 1:18 PM on May 26, 2010
But, to make my point again, the job options for someone with a PhD are so few and far between that it would be a bad financial idea to pull yourself out from a paying job for 6-7 years to only have to re-enter the "normal people" job market again, having lost contacts and only having a PhD to show for it.
Also, do you know WHERE the history jobs are located? Check out the history jobs wiki. Do you know what history jobs pay? Not well ($35-50k by my research.)
It is a bad financial decision for someone that is 35 with (or without) a family.
I hate to be harsh, but it was a bad financial decision for me at 26 without a family then...
posted by k8t at 1:34 PM on May 26, 2010
Also, do you know WHERE the history jobs are located? Check out the history jobs wiki. Do you know what history jobs pay? Not well ($35-50k by my research.)
It is a bad financial decision for someone that is 35 with (or without) a family.
I hate to be harsh, but it was a bad financial decision for me at 26 without a family then...
posted by k8t at 1:34 PM on May 26, 2010
New Haven is a pretty great city and sounds like a good fit based on your criteria. My SO is a PhD candidate in History here and loves the program.
posted by eunoia at 1:34 PM on May 26, 2010
posted by eunoia at 1:34 PM on May 26, 2010
re: the air quality issue -- steer clear of Pittsburgh in that case. It's a great city and I love it here, but it has the third-worst air quality in the nation (although, to look on the bright side, it used to be the worst...)
posted by kataclysm at 10:30 AM on May 27, 2010
posted by kataclysm at 10:30 AM on May 27, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 7:09 AM on May 26, 2010 [1 favorite]